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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (osu!mania)

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Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
Overall health will certainly help. It's well known that a healthy body will have a positive effect on the brain, and that things like eating breakfast can have a positive effect on outcomes later that day. However, I have a feeling that these factors are very small, and have more of a cumulative effect than any immediate effect on any specific day.

I currently have a score on https://osu.ppy.sh/s/239943 which is 100k higher than my other scores (roughly 9% accuracy above my average score). It will likely take me months before any one of my average scores will match that level. It's certainly possible that I could beat that score next time I play that map, but the chances are extremely small.

Unless you're entozer, everyone finds jackhammers hard.
lenpai
1,783 posts
Joined December 2014
lenpai
*Cough Jxyden 2000 note per minute 1/8 + 1/16 jack master (song is plasma strike btw, its an Ftb chart/map)

Seriously though practice is still what matters most. What dictates the skill improvement rate of a player depends in the type of charts he plays (pattern specific, ranked, or comfort zone stuff) + (or times, its up to the reader) his actual talent or learning speed.

And about best plays, they DO NOT always (sightreads taken into consideration) show a player's actual skill level. It just shows his potential and that improvement is possible.

Overall body condition does help. Boredom, sleepiness, hunger, weak body, and any oher impediment does affect a players gameplay. The magnitude varies from player to player. Same goes for positive conditions.
Reiko
59 posts
Joined December 2011
Reiko
Pls fix this!This map gives more pp with 8k mod then the original one on 7k 8k-> http://puu.sh/enkVN/ba74a51de6.png ( pp amount http://puu.sh/enlmH/0d4700d736.png ) 7k -> http://puu.sh/enkYj/f12e732f9f.png ( pp amount http://puu.sh/enlzN/40a08c1f90.png )
Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97
^ Is that a bug?

If so, please remove it as quickly as possible or better yet just make auto-converts unrankable

If not, then there needs each difficulty of each converted beatmap needs to be treated as a separate entity depending on key-mod, which would be difficult to implent so just unrank the auto-converts please.
Reiko
59 posts
Joined December 2011
Reiko

Tristan97 wrote:

^ Is that a bug?

If so, please remove it as quickly as possible or better yet just make auto-converts unrankable

If not, then there needs each difficulty of each converted beatmap needs to be treated as a separate entity depending on key-mod, which would be difficult to implent so just unrank the auto-converts please.
nope it isnt this map on 8k has 6,XX* and on 7k it has 4,XX* and the pp ranking depends on how much * the map has so the 8k version is obviously more pp worth then the 7k version
Fullerene-
550 posts
Joined April 2013
Fullerene-
Pipe Dream's 8K autoconvert is rated a lot higher than the 7k because it has this


not really a bug, but the way hitsounds are converted
Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97
I get that, it's just that if Pipe Dream's 7k 4.21 difficulty should be treated as a separate map from the 8k 6.xx star difficulty. None of this 'you'll get however many pp the score you just got multiplied by 0.90 would have been worth on the 7k chart' for somebody that manages the scratches amazingly and gets an S on the 8k map.

(If they are going to worth pp)
Reiko
59 posts
Joined December 2011
Reiko

Tristan97 wrote:

I get that, it's just that if Pipe Dream's 7k 4.21 difficulty should be treated as a separate map from the 8k 6.xx star difficulty. None of this 'you'll get however many pp the score you just got multiplied by 0.90 would have been worth on the 7k chart' for somebody that manages the scratches amazingly and gets an S on the 8k map.

(If they are going to worth pp)
but how should some1 with nearly 1kk go for the 8k version? u know the max you can get is 900k
Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97
^That's my point. If getting a perfect score on the 'original autoconverted difficulty' of 7 keys granted full pp, then why shouldn't getting straight 320s be worth the full pp of the 8k difficulty? Just because it's not the 'naturally converted number of keys'?

They are autoconverts, there shouldn't be such a discrepancy.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
They are autoconverts, they shouldn't give ANY pp
/thread
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

-Kamikaze- wrote:

They are autoconverts, they shouldn't give ANY pp
/thread
I considered saying this earlier. Then I realized it's not gonna change anything anyway. Common sense has lost this round.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
Well it's been said a lot of times before, so I just repeat it
Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97
I mean, as the mania community increases, we could see if eventually the BATs that are mania playres would make a case for making autoconverts not worth pp.

But there a a lot of things I think the osu!mania system could do to improve. I know this is the right place and it won't happen until we act, but for now, I feel as if waiting for the new keymodes to settle in is the best way to allow developments for the mode in general progress.

In the mean while, people should just continue to play the mode and map more ET difficultiesspreads.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
1) People ARE mapping ET spreads
2) Changes in PP system are inevitable and actually being worked on atm
3) We shouldn't have autoconverts giving pp at ANY stage of development
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94
Per-mod highscores and thus pp are going to come. In fact they're already implemented and will be enabled as soon as the server is ready.
Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97
Thanks for bothering to respond Tom94. So does that mean that ET players can have both the Identity Part 4 non-mod 7k map and the Identity Part 4 modded 8k map show in their top ranks, each earning separate pp?

Or is it just the maximum pp earned from the highest pp awarding play on a map, modded or not?
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94

Tristan97 wrote:

Thanks for bothering to respond Tom94. So does that mean that ET players can have both the Identity Part 4 non-mod 7k map and the Identity Part 4 modded 8k map show in their top ranks, each earning separate pp?

Or is it just the maximum pp earned from the highest pp awarding play on a map, modded or not?
The original intention is to only allow each difficulty to only give pp once - in that case for the score giving the most. I can see why it might be more desirable to allow multiple pp gains from the same map due to different keymods basically being different maps. Such an exception could possibly be made.
Blocko
osu! Alumni
751 posts
Joined February 2014
Blocko
What about DT plays? Would they be separate plays as well?
Staiain
152 posts
Joined March 2009
Staiain
So this means the return of DT + pp then ?
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

Blocko wrote:

What about DT plays? Would they be separate plays as well?
I'd say DT deserves to be separate more than xk mods on autoconverts.
Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97

Bobbias wrote:

I'd say DT deserves to be separate more than xk mods on autoconverts.
I would agree with this
Tidek
1,571 posts
Joined March 2011
Tidek
What about HR?
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

Tidek wrote:

What about HR?
I suppose HR might also deserve it... Although I'd say less than DT. With HR, if you're capable of getting a good score (let's say 98-100%) on something, it's not going to be that much harder. The HP drain increase is nearly meaningless at that point, and the OD increase likely won't make a very large impact on your accuracy, although it will at least have more of an effect than the increased HP drain.
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94

Staiain wrote:

So this means the return of DT + pp then ?
DT would start giving a pp bonus again, yes.


Blocko wrote:

What about DT plays? Would they be separate plays as well?
No. It's the same map, just faster. Of course both your DT and nomod scores would be stored, but you couldn't get pp for nomod AND for DT at the same time. You'd only get pp for whichever of the 2 scores gives more pp. Just to clarify: Scores with different mods would all get stored, but only your most giving pp score of these would count towards your total pp.

Keymods are the only ones with which you will possibly be able to get pp multiple times from the same map.
Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97
Does this imply that things like country ranking and global ranking are going to decrease in relevancy due to the fact that some players will only play maps on dt, making the score they receive not reflective of the no-mod score? Could this be solved by changing the ranking system to going by pp earned (or creating an entirely new ranking for supporters or similar)?
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

Tristan97 wrote:

Does this imply that things like country ranking and global ranking are going to decrease in relevancy due to the fact that some players will only play maps on dt, making the score they receive not reflective of the no-mod score? Could this be solved by changing the ranking system to going by pp earned (or creating an entirely new ranking for supporters or similar)?
I imagine this will be too complicated to implement, so nah.
btw we could totally have hr back as ranked mod
Tokiiwa
102 posts
Joined February 2014
Tokiiwa
mod pp hype
Tidek
1,571 posts
Joined March 2011
Tidek
The main problem is that no1 will care about scoreboard on map when it will be implement. (unless DT will increase max possible points to for example 1,12mln but thats not going to happen i guess)
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
You can just get a nomod highscore for places and dt score for pp, I see no problem here.
Also nobody really cares about scoreboard if they farm pp, it's just an addition
JimJoy
9 posts
Joined July 2012
JimJoy
but isnt pp calculated only for passes with highest score?
Frustration
57 posts
Joined September 2013
Frustration

JimJoy wrote:

but isnt pp calculated only for passes with highest score?
Looks like not in this case

Tom94 wrote:

Just to clarify: Scores with different mods would all get stored, but only your most giving pp score of these would count towards your total pp.
Also, I'd like to ask if there is any ETA about the new DT pp calculations going live
Halogen-
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
574 posts
Joined September 2009
Halogen-

Tom94 wrote:

Just to clarify: Scores with different mods would all get stored, but only your most giving pp score of these would count towards your total pp.

Keymods are the only ones with which you will possibly be able to get pp multiple times from the same map.
Requesting additional clarification for the first part of this post: I understand the part about all scores getting stored and the highest PP score of them count, but are the leaderboards exclusive from the performance point calculation?

What I mean is this: if someone were to get 1000 MAX and 20 300s on a song and have that score recorded, and then played the same song and got 980 MAX and 40 300s (improbable but possible on easier songs), would the first score be the one to show up on the leaderboards since it is a higher score?

As an aside, I'm slowly getting back into osu! again and I apologize if this question comes across as stupid.
Staiain
152 posts
Joined March 2009
Staiain
I'm actually curious if a 90 - 95 % score on DT will be worth more than 98 - 100% score nomod PP wise, if it is imagine the potential to start DT'ing 4 - 5 star maps 8-)
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
@Halogen
This will basically mean that if you have that 1000xMAX 20x300 score on leaderboards and let's say it gives 150pp, and then you'll score 950xMAX 70x300 score with DT that would give 200 pp, the first score is counted towards your positions on map ranking (since it has higher score) and second one is counted towards your pp (since it gives more)
Hope that explains it D:
Staiain
152 posts
Joined March 2009
Staiain
sorry for almost double posting but, will the PP gain scale with the star diffuculty, like if a map is 6* on DT, will it give the same amount as a 6* map nomod?
Fullerene-
550 posts
Joined April 2013
Fullerene-

Staiain wrote:

sorry for almost double posting but, will the PP gain scale with the star diffuculty, like if a map is 6* on DT, will it give the same amount as a 6* map nomod?
This is the case for other modes I think, so I'd assume so.
Halogen-
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
574 posts
Joined September 2009
Halogen-

-Kamikaze- wrote:

@Halogen
This will basically mean that if you have that 1000xMAX 20x300 score on leaderboards and let's say it gives 150pp, and then you'll score 950xMAX 70x300 score with DT that would give 200 pp, the first score is counted towards your positions on map ranking (since it has higher score) and second one is counted towards your pp (since it gives more)
Hope that explains it D:
That does, thanks!
Sepha
6 posts
Joined May 2013
Sepha
Not sure if this has already been explained but here goes:
So i download a ranked beatmap and first play ever get 57pp weighted at 24%, it says i should get 14pp, which is fair enough. I look and i only have 1pp added to my total, regardless of how long i wait for it to update. Can someone explain why this is?
Full Tablet
2,544 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet

SolidGuy wrote:

Not sure if this has already been explained but here goes:
So i download a ranked beatmap and first play ever get 57pp weighted at 24%, it says i should get 14pp, which is fair enough. I look and i only have 1pp added to my total, regardless of how long i wait for it to update. Can someone explain why this is?
When you got that score with 57pp, all scores you have got that are worth less than 57pp reduced their weighting in 5% (reducing the amount of pp they give).
Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97
So I know this may have already been discussed to an extent, but if the different keymodes are suppossed to be treated as different modes, then why are there not separate rankings for each keymode? That would help solve a lot of discrepancies with rankings and such.
Staiain
152 posts
Joined March 2009
Staiain
The hype continues, waiting for server implementation :')
Nanatsu
1,153 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu
PLZ INCLUDE RANDOM MODE RANK SCORE TOO
MAAAAAAAAAAAAAS
MAAAAAAAAAAAAAS
DT nooooooooooooo

So terrible...
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura

_S u w a k o_ wrote:

PLZ INCLUDE RANDOM MODE RANK SCORE TOO
How would you make it work with everyone playing the same map with different patterns everytime ? :c
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
I'm against random being ranked, because it messes up mapper's work too much. It changes patterns that are supossed to be tricky into just random placed which makes it easier (not in all cases obv). I would love to see mirror mod ranked though, it would be perfect for 2p players and on one-hand bias maps
Halogen-
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
574 posts
Joined September 2009
Halogen-

Tristan97 wrote:

So I know this may have already been discussed to an extent, but if the different keymodes are suppossed to be treated as different modes, then why are there not separate rankings for each keymode? That would help solve a lot of discrepancies with rankings and such.
I've wondered this myself. It seems like there's still some merit in valuing higher keymodes, but I don't understand why.

_S u w a k o_ wrote:

PLZ INCLUDE RANDOM MODE RANK SCORE TOO
Random is something that absolutely should never be ranked. Pattern deviations can cause one person's attempt at a map to be easier than someone else's. That kind of deviation has no place in ranking.
Nanatsu
1,153 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu
if u guys thinks about fair, i think mirror mode would be fit and reasonable.

and the mirror is exist in hardrock mode. ( even they don't use it for mirror pattern )
Mwallx
223 posts
Joined April 2014
Mwallx
Umm... Saw this thread casually.
I don't know much about other things but my opinion is that autoconvert must be unrankable.
As a player for years I can say that at least 95% autoconvert is not qualifyied to be rankable.
And about score,I think it's necessary to intensify the condition of combo.I met uncountable times
that situations like I was 96% 1 miss being beaten by 98% 30miss. It's just ridiculous.
Thanks for reading ._.
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura
Scoring system is set in stone now, there's no way they're gonna change it. As for autoconverts this has been said and repeated again and again but they somehow want to keep them ranked >.>
Shoegazer
osu!mania Paragon
528 posts
Joined April 2013
Shoegazer
The only legitimate type of "random" mod should be mirror in my opinion, as the hand bias levels would be the same, just switched onto different hands. Using any other deviation of patterns would make the file's patterns too different from the original to really be compared legitimately. Little off-topic, but why isn't there a Mirror option for o!m anyway? Feels a little odd to have a random mod but not mirror.

also DT PP hype
Staiain
152 posts
Joined March 2009
Staiain
Any news on the DT PP front?
EtienneXC
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
115 posts
Joined January 2015
EtienneXC

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?
Demane
15 posts
Joined June 2013
Demane

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?
Elementaires
658 posts
Joined January 2013
Elementaires

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?
Frustration
57 posts
Joined September 2013
Frustration

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?
Sillyveon
8 posts
Joined January 2014
Sillyveon
Posting this because this bug is not fixed. Yesterday I asked morisan7 to try Pipe Dream on 8K because it has a 6.22 star rating and offers approximately 400p with an A rank. I've compared his score to other people who has similar scores, and I noticed that some changes have been implemented to the pp system.

morisan7's score - 90.95% (194pp)


someone's score - 90.83% (399pp)


It seems like people who have tried this song recently do not get the same pp as the ones before. Please look into this problem, thank you.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
Good thing you've brought that up. In standard you guys have disabled pp from tag maps because of "pp abuse", basically one touchscreen player getting 555pp from one of the maps. So why do we still have autoconverts when you can get 350pp from some of them, and you get shit like pipe dream that gets 200pp for ss nomod and 650pp for s on 8k? That's clearly more abusing than one 555pp play, isn't it? And we do we HAVE to play autoconverts to be able to fight for top ranks? That's nonsense.
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura
autoconverts

lol
abraker
Global Moderator
8,355 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?
Reiko
59 posts
Joined December 2011
Reiko

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?
Rido
812 posts
Joined April 2014
Rido

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?
Nanatsu
1,153 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu

_Sylveon_ wrote:

Posting this because this bug is not fixed. Yesterday I asked morisan7 to try Pipe Dream on 8K because it has a 6.22 star rating and offers approximately 400p with an A rank. I've compared his score to other people who has similar scores, and I noticed that some changes have been implemented to the pp system.

morisan7's score - 90.95% (194pp)


someone's score - 90.83% (399pp)


It seems like people who have tried this song recently do not get the same pp as the ones before. Please look into this problem, thank you.
wtf recently i saw lovesmack player's bp which named Ex something and he still could get 6~700 worth pp.. i quite confuse @.@
Nanatsu
1,153 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu

-Kamikaze- wrote:

Good thing you've brought that up. In standard you guys have disabled pp from tag maps because of "pp abuse", basically one touchscreen player getting 555pp from one of the maps. So why do we still have autoconverts when you can get 350pp from some of them, and you get shit like pipe dream that gets 200pp for ss nomod and 650pp for s on 8k? That's clearly more abusing than one 555pp play, isn't it? And we do we HAVE to play autoconverts to be able to fight for top ranks? That's nonsense.

i agree your opinion of pipe dream overall. but, u don't have to blame autoconverts. lol

the autoconvert maps are still osu! mania mapset itself. they still follow music and has pattern.

i know, the patterns are kinda terrible. i still understand it a lot since i am a mapper and player.

but you might already know that most of autoconverts are not have worth pp like mania specific maps..

the amount of high pp maps are limited than specific maps. i think it's still reasonable.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
You still need to play autoconverts in order to be top 10, even if your nickname is jhlee0133 or abcdullah
and that's WRONG
Redon
302 posts
Joined November 2013
Redon
From the standard pp discussion thread

Tom94 wrote:

Now lastly, why did all tag maps lose their pp rather than only the 2 problematic ones? The answer is being consistent. tag maps were never meant to be played by a single player and would have never passed the ranking rules - even back then - when being considered as single-player maps. This simply was a good opportunity to remove them from ranked play altogether. Scoreboards have been kept to let people keep the amazing scores they put tons of effort into and to keep the niche competition that obviously many enjoy.
Now that we're past the "everything that has a scoreboard must give pp" philosophy, can we talk about removing pp from autoconverts? They are awful, would never have passed the ranking rules as a mania map, they bring nothing but pp calculation issues both in mania and taiko, and players, especially newcomers, should not be encouraged to play them instead of actual mania maps.
Luna
2,354 posts
Joined November 2010
Luna

Redon wrote:

From the standard pp discussion thread

Tom94 wrote:

Now lastly, why did all tag maps lose their pp rather than only the 2 problematic ones? The answer is being consistent. tag maps were never meant to be played by a single player and would have never passed the ranking rules - even back then - when being considered as single-player maps. This simply was a good opportunity to remove them from ranked play altogether. Scoreboards have been kept to let people keep the amazing scores they put tons of effort into and to keep the niche competition that obviously many enjoy.
Now that we're past the "everything that has a scoreboard must give pp" philosophy, can we talk about removing pp from autoconverts? They are awful, would never have passed the ranking rules as a mania map, they bring nothing but pp calculation issues both in mania and taiko, and players, especially newcomers, should not be encouraged to play them instead of actual mania maps.
yesyesyesyesyes
Frustration
57 posts
Joined September 2013
Frustration

Redon wrote:

From the standard pp discussion thread

Tom94 wrote:

Now lastly, why did all tag maps lose their pp rather than only the 2 problematic ones? The answer is being consistent. tag maps were never meant to be played by a single player and would have never passed the ranking rules - even back then - when being considered as single-player maps. This simply was a good opportunity to remove them from ranked play altogether. Scoreboards have been kept to let people keep the amazing scores they put tons of effort into and to keep the niche competition that obviously many enjoy.
Now that we're past the "everything that has a scoreboard must give pp" philosophy, can we talk about removing pp from autoconverts? They are awful, would never have passed the ranking rules as a mania map, they bring nothing but pp calculation issues both in mania and taiko, and players, especially newcomers, should not be encouraged to play them instead of actual mania maps.
So much this
Nanatsu
1,153 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu

-Kamikaze- wrote:

You still need to play autoconverts in order to be top 10, even if your nickname is jhlee0133 or abcdullah
and that's WRONG

i bet you talking about #1 person who was farmed autoconverts a lot.

then i will say my opinion as top 10 player. lol. you will get 0 pp even you fc 4.2~4.5 star rating difficulty map.

then imagine how many maps which has star rating 4 stars over in autoconvert. i think 20 maps around?

so, is it still painful? hmm. whatever i know your feeling and intention. but it's not absoultely wrong imo
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

Redon wrote:

From the standard pp discussion thread

Tom94 wrote:

Now lastly, why did all tag maps lose their pp rather than only the 2 problematic ones? The answer is being consistent. tag maps were never meant to be played by a single player and would have never passed the ranking rules - even back then - when being considered as single-player maps. This simply was a good opportunity to remove them from ranked play altogether. Scoreboards have been kept to let people keep the amazing scores they put tons of effort into and to keep the niche competition that obviously many enjoy.
Now that we're past the "everything that has a scoreboard must give pp" philosophy, can we talk about removing pp from autoconverts? They are awful, would never have passed the ranking rules as a mania map, they bring nothing but pp calculation issues both in mania and taiko, and players, especially newcomers, should not be encouraged to play them instead of actual mania maps.
Whole thread in a nutshell.
@Suwako: Autoconverts are not fully fledged mania maps, they are horrific to play, have broken note placement, random density and AWFUL patterns. This kind of map shouldn't give ANY pp. NEVER. Having players play autoconverts in mixed mapsets with mania diffs in it is just sad.
Nanatsu
1,153 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu
i would copy what i said again

'the autoconvert maps are still osu! mania mapset itself. they still follow music and has pattern.

i know, the patterns are kinda terrible. i still understand it a lot since i am a mapper and player.'

to be honest, some of mania specific maps are even worse than autoconverts lol

pp is follows star rating of mapset difficulty rather than mapset quality itself.

then autoconverts are still need to give pp for consistency until star rating system changes

and remember top rankers are don't like to play them too xd include horrible mania specific mapset too
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

_S u w a k o_ wrote:

and remember top rankers are don't like to play them too xd
This is exactly what I mean. Also even most horrible mania mapset is still better than best autoconvert, just because someone put his effort in it. Saying that autoconvert is better than even worst mapper's creation is demotivating imo. Something along "why would I even want to try mapping when osu can generate something that pepole will like more than my maps". We shouldn't be saying that.
Nanatsu
1,153 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu

-Kamikaze- wrote:

_S u w a k o_ wrote:

and remember top rankers are don't like to play them too xd
This is exactly what I mean. Also even most horrible mania mapset is still better than best autoconvert, just because someone put his effort in it. Saying that autoconvert is better than even worst mapper's creation is demotivating imo. Something along "why would I even want to try mapping when osu can generate something that pepole will like more than my maps". We shouldn't be saying that.

don't know.. then you should think effort of mania autoconvert pattern code maker too xd

have you imagine how many players who spent time to autoconvert for some pp will be fucked up? it's not even kinda tag4 problem.

remember why many ppl use pp farming word. especially 'farming'. this is totally reflects they playing for pp rather than for fun lol
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura
Eeh, pretty sure autoconverts were just implemented because there were hardly any mania-specific mapsets at the time, and they had to offer something to play from what already existed. I firmly believe this is no longer needed. We're also not sacrificing whoever has coded the autoconverts generator work as we do not want to remove the autoconverts but instead make them unranked. People could still play them if they feel like it.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
Yeah, pretty sure that was the main motivation for autoconverts. I still argued that it was a horrible idea and would give players the wrong ideas about mania. Also, it was implemented before there were any mania maps at all. In the beginning, we didn't even have a proper mania editor, and you had to place circles in 'columns' drawn over the standard osu editor (it would ignore a circle's height).
Cman752006
1 post
Joined November 2014
Cman752006
Can you do with 2-players with osu!mania? ;)
PouletFurtif
260 posts
Joined December 2011
PouletFurtif
Why is the co-op mod ranked? Two good 4K players can complete insane 7K/8K maps and easily rank up.
+There is no evidence when scores/replays were co-op'd.
I guess I should post this in the main feedback section.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,355 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
I see the co-op mode as a one person only mode in single player. The co-op mode was made for the multiplayer play just like the standard mode, but it brings interesting maps when played in single player. Keymodes more than 10 may seem impossible, but there are players like ABCDullah that can do up to 16k and these do deserve MASSIVE amounts of PP.

PouletFurtif wrote:

+There is no evidence when scores/replays were co-op'd..
Nor there is that 2 players are playing regular 7k.

Vid:
SPOILER
xwidghet
3 posts
Joined November 2010
xwidghet

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?
Tidek
1,571 posts
Joined March 2011
Tidek
No.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,355 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?

Tidek wrote:

No.
Actually there is. As I learned today: t/319620
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

abraker wrote:

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?

Tidek wrote:

No.
Actually there is. As I learned today: t/319620
This is info that we had over a month ago. Nothing new on DT PP front.
Arief Santosa
206 posts
Joined February 2015
Arief Santosa
its so hard play mania HD 7K :cry:
dennischan
454 posts
Joined June 2013
dennischan
Delete autoconverts plz big boy.
stryver12
231 posts
Joined August 2012
stryver12
Rank HR and Random please...
I mostly rely on random to clear hard maps / charts when I play LR2.

*I know this might sound stupid or has been suggested, but please... consider it, especially HR
Tidek
1,571 posts
Joined March 2011
Tidek
HR yes, with some updgrades.

Random? never
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
I will reiterate that it's a shame random can't have it's own leaderboard with no PP, because that would be kinda cool. But it's no huge loss, because I remember when there was no random mod.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,355 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Still no. Random cannot ever be ranked even into even the gimmick category due to it not being consistent. One generation of a random map can be much harder or easier than another generation.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
Which is why I said "without PP".

It would be interesting to see how well players are able to do on maps with random. Symmetrical patterns tend to make for particularly awkward randoms no matter how random shuffles them, by the way, so not everything is going to be automatically easier just because of random. Beyond that, the point was simply that it would be interesting to see what leaderborads for random would look like. I never said it would be fair, or useful for anything, just that it would be interesting, and fun even despite the lack of PP incentive.

Not sure what you mean by "gimmick category" either.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
Mirror mod when
right scratch users really suffer, y'know?
abraker
Global Moderator
8,355 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
I sense a disturbance within the topic. This isn't a "which mod should be added" thread. If you have new features in mind, go here.


Bobbias wrote:

Not sure what you mean by "gimmick category" either.
t/293841
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
Do I care if random has leaderboards? not really, no. Certainly not enough to make a feature request (not that it would have any chance of being added anyway). I was simply clarifying my position on why it's a shame random doesn't have a leaderboard. Full stop.

Kamikaze was responding to me. Mirror mod has been discussed before, and there's no need for kamikaze to post there anyway.

abraker wrote:

Bobbias wrote:

Not sure what you mean by "gimmick category" either.
t/293841
Oh, that's only somewhat related anyway, since it's an entirely different type of leaderboard being discussed there. I was referring to haveing some sort of mod-specific leaderboard that happened to not be used for PP calculations. That suggestion has to do more with promoting maps that otherwise don't get the respect they deserve because people tend to ignore anything that doesn't have a leaderboard attached to it here. (Because casual users are spoiled into thinking leaderboards are normal, and that anything that doesn't have a leaderboard is inferior, since that's what ranking implies).
Jinjin
891 posts
Joined September 2013
Jinjin
So.... HT apparently gives pp again lol
6GoodNight9
6GoodNight9
AiAe SHD + HT = pp pool
October Scream
119 posts
Joined June 2013
October Scream

dennischan wrote:

Delete autoconverts plz big boy.
My yes.

iJinjin wrote:

So.... HT apparently gives pp again lol

6GoodNight9 wrote:

AiAe SHD + HT = pp pool
My what the fuck is this. Half Time pp, but no Double Time pp? Let me tell you guys I have learned something over the start of this thread, and it's that Double Time is not easy to manipulate when on an actual mania chart. For people who put effort into Double Time plays like Haelequin and get only the normal amount of pp that they'd get for the average play, then you have people S ranking the same song on HT and getting more pp for a lack of effort, that's just damn wrong.

Autoconverts should've stopped giving pp all together, as well as that stupid "play all the maps get all the pp" system. F1rstLove isn't even as decent of a player compared to who else there is in the game, but just because he's out there farming away pp by playing every single difficulty from every ranked map possible, he was able to pass the 9k pp first before anyone else in the whole game. People have also manipulated that pp method by Double Timing and No Failing every song they can just to get the bonus pp for touching the damn auto converts. I think this should be a game of skill, not a game of "how fast can I play through all the autoconverts and charts with No Fail just for extra pp."
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

October Scream wrote:

F1rstLove isn't even as decent of a player compared to who else there is in the game, but just because he's out there farming away pp by playing every single difficulty from every ranked map possible, he was able to pass the 9k pp first before anyone else in the whole game.
that's not how pp works
October Scream
119 posts
Joined June 2013
October Scream

silmarilen wrote:

that's not how pp works
That's not how it should work. I've read up about it and it's true, that's how pp works sadly. Tally up F1rstLove's pp from top plays and then compare it to other players out there.
October Scream
119 posts
Joined June 2013
October Scream


On the left is F1rstLove's pp, without going down to the second page of his top plays. The right is jhlee, without going to the second page of top plays. Guess who's in first? F1rstLove. Without even going to the second page, jhlee has already passed F1rstLove in terms of Top Play pp.
Full Tablet
2,544 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet
That issue is not actually because of autoconverts, it's because of the amount of maps played.

There is a small pp bonus from playing many ranked maps, that caps at 416.6667pp

jhlee has about 235 maps played, so he gets 54.81pp
F1rstLove has about 13220 maps played, so he gets 416.517pp.

In the other game modes, this is not an issue, since people who are good at the game generally have played a lot of maps.
October Scream
119 posts
Joined June 2013
October Scream

Full Tablet wrote:

That issue is not actually because of autoconverts, it's because of the amount of maps played.
Autoconverts are going towards this thing, which is what really makes me and other users not happy. The amount of maps played shouldn't make a player, it should be the amount of skill.
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