Eeh, pretty sure autoconverts were just implemented because there were hardly any mania-specific mapsets at the time, and they had to offer something to play from what already existed. I firmly believe this is no longer needed. We're also not sacrificing whoever has coded the autoconverts generator work as we do not want to remove the autoconverts but instead make them unranked. People could still play them if they feel like it.
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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (osu!mania)
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Yeah, pretty sure that was the main motivation for autoconverts. I still argued that it was a horrible idea and would give players the wrong ideas about mania. Also, it was implemented before there were any mania maps at all. In the beginning, we didn't even have a proper mania editor, and you had to place circles in 'columns' drawn over the standard osu editor (it would ignore a circle's height).
Can you do with 2-players with osu!mania? 
Why is the co-op mod ranked? Two good 4K players can complete insane 7K/8K maps and easily rank up.
+There is no evidence when scores/replays were co-op'd.
I guess I should post this in the main feedback section.
+There is no evidence when scores/replays were co-op'd.
I guess I should post this in the main feedback section.
I see the co-op mode as a one person only mode in single player. The co-op mode was made for the multiplayer play just like the standard mode, but it brings interesting maps when played in single player. Keymodes more than 10 may seem impossible, but there are players like ABCDullah that can do up to 16k and these do deserve MASSIVE amounts of PP.
Vid:
Nor there is that 2 players are playing regular 7k.PouletFurtif wrote:
+There is no evidence when scores/replays were co-op'd..
Vid:
No.
its so hard play mania HD 7K 
Delete autoconverts plz big boy.
Rank HR and Random please...
I mostly rely on random to clear hard maps / charts when I play LR2.
*I know this might sound stupid or has been suggested, but please... consider it, especially HR
I mostly rely on random to clear hard maps / charts when I play LR2.
*I know this might sound stupid or has been suggested, but please... consider it, especially HR
HR yes, with some updgrades.
Random? never
Random? never
I will reiterate that it's a shame random can't have it's own leaderboard with no PP, because that would be kinda cool. But it's no huge loss, because I remember when there was no random mod.
Still no. Random cannot ever be ranked even into even the gimmick category due to it not being consistent. One generation of a random map can be much harder or easier than another generation.
Which is why I said "without PP".
It would be interesting to see how well players are able to do on maps with random. Symmetrical patterns tend to make for particularly awkward randoms no matter how random shuffles them, by the way, so not everything is going to be automatically easier just because of random. Beyond that, the point was simply that it would be interesting to see what leaderborads for random would look like. I never said it would be fair, or useful for anything, just that it would be interesting, and fun even despite the lack of PP incentive.
Not sure what you mean by "gimmick category" either.
It would be interesting to see how well players are able to do on maps with random. Symmetrical patterns tend to make for particularly awkward randoms no matter how random shuffles them, by the way, so not everything is going to be automatically easier just because of random. Beyond that, the point was simply that it would be interesting to see what leaderborads for random would look like. I never said it would be fair, or useful for anything, just that it would be interesting, and fun even despite the lack of PP incentive.
Not sure what you mean by "gimmick category" either.
Mirror mod when
right scratch users really suffer, y'know?
right scratch users really suffer, y'know?
Do I care if random has leaderboards? not really, no. Certainly not enough to make a feature request (not that it would have any chance of being added anyway). I was simply clarifying my position on why it's a shame random doesn't have a leaderboard. Full stop.
Kamikaze was responding to me. Mirror mod has been discussed before, and there's no need for kamikaze to post there anyway.
Kamikaze was responding to me. Mirror mod has been discussed before, and there's no need for kamikaze to post there anyway.
Oh, that's only somewhat related anyway, since it's an entirely different type of leaderboard being discussed there. I was referring to haveing some sort of mod-specific leaderboard that happened to not be used for PP calculations. That suggestion has to do more with promoting maps that otherwise don't get the respect they deserve because people tend to ignore anything that doesn't have a leaderboard attached to it here. (Because casual users are spoiled into thinking leaderboards are normal, and that anything that doesn't have a leaderboard is inferior, since that's what ranking implies).abraker wrote:
t/293841Bobbias wrote:
Not sure what you mean by "gimmick category" either.
My yes.dennischan wrote:
Delete autoconverts plz big boy.
iJinjin wrote:
So.... HT apparently gives pp again lol
My what the fuck is this. Half Time pp, but no Double Time pp? Let me tell you guys I have learned something over the start of this thread, and it's that Double Time is not easy to manipulate when on an actual mania chart. For people who put effort into Double Time plays like Haelequin and get only the normal amount of pp that they'd get for the average play, then you have people S ranking the same song on HT and getting more pp for a lack of effort, that's just damn wrong.6GoodNight9 wrote:
AiAe SHD + HT = pp pool
Autoconverts should've stopped giving pp all together, as well as that stupid "play all the maps get all the pp" system. F1rstLove isn't even as decent of a player compared to who else there is in the game, but just because he's out there farming away pp by playing every single difficulty from every ranked map possible, he was able to pass the 9k pp first before anyone else in the whole game. People have also manipulated that pp method by Double Timing and No Failing every song they can just to get the bonus pp for touching the damn auto converts. I think this should be a game of skill, not a game of "how fast can I play through all the autoconverts and charts with No Fail just for extra pp."
that's not how pp worksOctober Scream wrote:
F1rstLove isn't even as decent of a player compared to who else there is in the game, but just because he's out there farming away pp by playing every single difficulty from every ranked map possible, he was able to pass the 9k pp first before anyone else in the whole game.
That's not how it should work. I've read up about it and it's true, that's how pp works sadly. Tally up F1rstLove's pp from top plays and then compare it to other players out there.silmarilen wrote:
that's not how pp works
On the left is F1rstLove's pp, without going down to the second page of his top plays. The right is jhlee, without going to the second page of top plays. Guess who's in first? F1rstLove. Without even going to the second page, jhlee has already passed F1rstLove in terms of Top Play pp.
That issue is not actually because of autoconverts, it's because of the amount of maps played.
There is a small pp bonus from playing many ranked maps, that caps at 416.6667pp
jhlee has about 235 maps played, so he gets 54.81pp
F1rstLove has about 13220 maps played, so he gets 416.517pp.
In the other game modes, this is not an issue, since people who are good at the game generally have played a lot of maps.
There is a small pp bonus from playing many ranked maps, that caps at 416.6667pp
jhlee has about 235 maps played, so he gets 54.81pp
F1rstLove has about 13220 maps played, so he gets 416.517pp.
In the other game modes, this is not an issue, since people who are good at the game generally have played a lot of maps.
Autoconverts are going towards this thing, which is what really makes me and other users not happy. The amount of maps played shouldn't make a player, it should be the amount of skill.Full Tablet wrote:
That issue is not actually because of autoconverts, it's because of the amount of maps played.
ht pp rewards people for playing a map at a lower, unintended difficulty level
if pp is awarded for ht
pp needs to be awarded for dt/nc
if pp is awarded for ht
pp needs to be awarded for dt/nc
WOAH! So much to say about the last few posts.
I have no clue what this is either, but this certainly creates an imbalance. Iit has been confirmed that DT pp will be a thing once peppy does the per mod ranking.October Scream wrote:
My what the fuck is this. Half Time pp, but no Double Time pp? Let me tell you guys I have learned something over the start of this thread, and it's that Double Time is not easy to manipulate when on an actual mania chart. For people who put effort into Double Time plays like Haelequin and get only the normal amount of pp that they'd get for the average play, then you have people S ranking the same song on HT and getting more pp for a lack of effort, that's just damn wrong.
I will add this to support your argument. It is obvious that the pp system is not 100% perfect, but it's the best thing we got so far. Initially it was a huge improvement on the score based ranking method. I am currently working on a method and system to compare players' skills to each other, and if it proves effective maybe Tom64 or peppy will notice.October Scream wrote:
<facts conserning f1rstLove and jhlee>
I think that the best solution in this case is removing the pp bonus from playing many maps.October Scream wrote:
Autoconverts are going towards this thing, which is what really makes me and other users not happy. The amount of maps played shouldn't make a player, it should be the amount of skill.Full Tablet wrote:
That issue is not actually because of autoconverts, it's because of the amount of maps played.
the best solution is to remove pp from auto-convertsFull Tablet wrote:
I think that the best solution in this case is removing the pp bonus from playing many maps.
Combine those solutions and we have two problems solved, because the bonus pp for play includes regular mania charts too.Choofers wrote:
the best solution is to remove pp from auto-convertsFull Tablet wrote:
I think that the best solution in this case is removing the pp bonus from playing many maps.
My understanding is that autoconverts are the way there are because there were not enough mania maps to come by. I wouldn't want to remove pp from them, they still have to be worth something. I think the big issue here is what f1rstlove complained in this thread.Choofers wrote:
the best solution is to remove pp from auto-convertsFull Tablet wrote:
I think that the best solution in this case is removing the pp bonus from playing many maps.
We have enough mania maps for people to get pp without auto converts, which is why they should be removed. Unlike CtB or Taiko, standard converts poorly to mania with its garbled patterns and poor note placements.abraker wrote:
My understanding is that autoconverts are the way there are because there were not enough mania maps to come by. I wouldn't want to remove pp from them, they still have to be worth something. I think the big issue here is what f1rstlove complained in this thread.
True, but even playing dysfunctional maps requires skill. They cannot be appreciated, but it's something.October Scream wrote:
Unlike CtB or Taiko, standard converts poorly to mania with its garbled patterns and poor note placements.
Playing dysfunctional converts like Ascension to Heaven, Mad Machine, Everything Will Freeze, and Worldwide Choppers is not something. It's like going to a restaurant and getting a steak, then being given a two spoons to eat it. You'll eventually get it, but you won't enjoy the crap work you went through.abraker wrote:
True, but even playing dysfunctional maps requires skill. They cannot be appreciated, but it's something.
This kinda reminds me of the older standard maps, when the ranking process was lenient. I never enjoy those maps as much as today's maps and avoid them as a result. While I don't have the same feeling towards autoconverted ranked maps, I guess ranked maps have to have an aesthetic to them. But I will still be towards for not deranking autoconverted maps. Lots of lower ranked players play them, and I don't think it will be in their favor if this would happen.October Scream wrote:
You'll eventually get it, but you won't enjoy the crap work you went through.
Thing is if you're only starting as a mania player you will most likely not care about pp at all. Making it so pp are only awarded by mania specific maps will send players on the right track naturally without the need to correct them as soon as they start caring about ranking.
@October Scream
Autoconverts for taiko and ctb are shit too, dont say too much about game modes where u dont have basic knowledge about them.
@Topic
You guys forgot why DT was removed from ranking? Because it was overpowered, especially on autoconverts and now it will be even more overpowered because of easy to spam maps like haelequin or space time.
Dont expect that DT pp will be added without fixing a star rating formula. But Im honestly surprised that HT started to give pp again, maybe its a sign that some important changes are gonna happen.
Autoconverts for taiko and ctb are shit too, dont say too much about game modes where u dont have basic knowledge about them.
@Topic
You guys forgot why DT was removed from ranking? Because it was overpowered, especially on autoconverts and now it will be even more overpowered because of easy to spam maps like haelequin or space time.
Dont expect that DT pp will be added without fixing a star rating formula. But Im honestly surprised that HT started to give pp again, maybe its a sign that some important changes are gonna happen.