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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (osu!mania)

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Sillyveon
8 posts
Joined January 2014
Sillyveon
Posting this because this bug is not fixed. Yesterday I asked morisan7 to try Pipe Dream on 8K because it has a 6.22 star rating and offers approximately 400p with an A rank. I've compared his score to other people who has similar scores, and I noticed that some changes have been implemented to the pp system.

morisan7's score - 90.95% (194pp)


someone's score - 90.83% (399pp)


It seems like people who have tried this song recently do not get the same pp as the ones before. Please look into this problem, thank you.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
Good thing you've brought that up. In standard you guys have disabled pp from tag maps because of "pp abuse", basically one touchscreen player getting 555pp from one of the maps. So why do we still have autoconverts when you can get 350pp from some of them, and you get shit like pipe dream that gets 200pp for ss nomod and 650pp for s on 8k? That's clearly more abusing than one 555pp play, isn't it? And we do we HAVE to play autoconverts to be able to fight for top ranks? That's nonsense.
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura
autoconverts

lol
abraker
Global Moderator
8,296 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?
Reiko
59 posts
Joined December 2011
Reiko

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?
Rido
812 posts
Joined April 2014
Rido

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?
Nanatsu
1,138 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu

_Sylveon_ wrote:

Posting this because this bug is not fixed. Yesterday I asked morisan7 to try Pipe Dream on 8K because it has a 6.22 star rating and offers approximately 400p with an A rank. I've compared his score to other people who has similar scores, and I noticed that some changes have been implemented to the pp system.

morisan7's score - 90.95% (194pp)


someone's score - 90.83% (399pp)


It seems like people who have tried this song recently do not get the same pp as the ones before. Please look into this problem, thank you.
wtf recently i saw lovesmack player's bp which named Ex something and he still could get 6~700 worth pp.. i quite confuse @.@
Nanatsu
1,138 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu

-Kamikaze- wrote:

Good thing you've brought that up. In standard you guys have disabled pp from tag maps because of "pp abuse", basically one touchscreen player getting 555pp from one of the maps. So why do we still have autoconverts when you can get 350pp from some of them, and you get shit like pipe dream that gets 200pp for ss nomod and 650pp for s on 8k? That's clearly more abusing than one 555pp play, isn't it? And we do we HAVE to play autoconverts to be able to fight for top ranks? That's nonsense.

i agree your opinion of pipe dream overall. but, u don't have to blame autoconverts. lol

the autoconvert maps are still osu! mania mapset itself. they still follow music and has pattern.

i know, the patterns are kinda terrible. i still understand it a lot since i am a mapper and player.

but you might already know that most of autoconverts are not have worth pp like mania specific maps..

the amount of high pp maps are limited than specific maps. i think it's still reasonable.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
You still need to play autoconverts in order to be top 10, even if your nickname is jhlee0133 or abcdullah
and that's WRONG
Redon
302 posts
Joined November 2013
Redon
From the standard pp discussion thread

Tom94 wrote:

Now lastly, why did all tag maps lose their pp rather than only the 2 problematic ones? The answer is being consistent. tag maps were never meant to be played by a single player and would have never passed the ranking rules - even back then - when being considered as single-player maps. This simply was a good opportunity to remove them from ranked play altogether. Scoreboards have been kept to let people keep the amazing scores they put tons of effort into and to keep the niche competition that obviously many enjoy.
Now that we're past the "everything that has a scoreboard must give pp" philosophy, can we talk about removing pp from autoconverts? They are awful, would never have passed the ranking rules as a mania map, they bring nothing but pp calculation issues both in mania and taiko, and players, especially newcomers, should not be encouraged to play them instead of actual mania maps.
Luna
2,355 posts
Joined November 2010
Luna

Redon wrote:

From the standard pp discussion thread

Tom94 wrote:

Now lastly, why did all tag maps lose their pp rather than only the 2 problematic ones? The answer is being consistent. tag maps were never meant to be played by a single player and would have never passed the ranking rules - even back then - when being considered as single-player maps. This simply was a good opportunity to remove them from ranked play altogether. Scoreboards have been kept to let people keep the amazing scores they put tons of effort into and to keep the niche competition that obviously many enjoy.
Now that we're past the "everything that has a scoreboard must give pp" philosophy, can we talk about removing pp from autoconverts? They are awful, would never have passed the ranking rules as a mania map, they bring nothing but pp calculation issues both in mania and taiko, and players, especially newcomers, should not be encouraged to play them instead of actual mania maps.
yesyesyesyesyes
Frustration
57 posts
Joined September 2013
Frustration

Redon wrote:

From the standard pp discussion thread

Tom94 wrote:

Now lastly, why did all tag maps lose their pp rather than only the 2 problematic ones? The answer is being consistent. tag maps were never meant to be played by a single player and would have never passed the ranking rules - even back then - when being considered as single-player maps. This simply was a good opportunity to remove them from ranked play altogether. Scoreboards have been kept to let people keep the amazing scores they put tons of effort into and to keep the niche competition that obviously many enjoy.
Now that we're past the "everything that has a scoreboard must give pp" philosophy, can we talk about removing pp from autoconverts? They are awful, would never have passed the ranking rules as a mania map, they bring nothing but pp calculation issues both in mania and taiko, and players, especially newcomers, should not be encouraged to play them instead of actual mania maps.
So much this
Nanatsu
1,138 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu

-Kamikaze- wrote:

You still need to play autoconverts in order to be top 10, even if your nickname is jhlee0133 or abcdullah
and that's WRONG

i bet you talking about #1 person who was farmed autoconverts a lot.

then i will say my opinion as top 10 player. lol. you will get 0 pp even you fc 4.2~4.5 star rating difficulty map.

then imagine how many maps which has star rating 4 stars over in autoconvert. i think 20 maps around?

so, is it still painful? hmm. whatever i know your feeling and intention. but it's not absoultely wrong imo
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

Redon wrote:

From the standard pp discussion thread

Tom94 wrote:

Now lastly, why did all tag maps lose their pp rather than only the 2 problematic ones? The answer is being consistent. tag maps were never meant to be played by a single player and would have never passed the ranking rules - even back then - when being considered as single-player maps. This simply was a good opportunity to remove them from ranked play altogether. Scoreboards have been kept to let people keep the amazing scores they put tons of effort into and to keep the niche competition that obviously many enjoy.
Now that we're past the "everything that has a scoreboard must give pp" philosophy, can we talk about removing pp from autoconverts? They are awful, would never have passed the ranking rules as a mania map, they bring nothing but pp calculation issues both in mania and taiko, and players, especially newcomers, should not be encouraged to play them instead of actual mania maps.
Whole thread in a nutshell.
@Suwako: Autoconverts are not fully fledged mania maps, they are horrific to play, have broken note placement, random density and AWFUL patterns. This kind of map shouldn't give ANY pp. NEVER. Having players play autoconverts in mixed mapsets with mania diffs in it is just sad.
Nanatsu
1,138 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu
i would copy what i said again

'the autoconvert maps are still osu! mania mapset itself. they still follow music and has pattern.

i know, the patterns are kinda terrible. i still understand it a lot since i am a mapper and player.'

to be honest, some of mania specific maps are even worse than autoconverts lol

pp is follows star rating of mapset difficulty rather than mapset quality itself.

then autoconverts are still need to give pp for consistency until star rating system changes

and remember top rankers are don't like to play them too xd include horrible mania specific mapset too
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

_S u w a k o_ wrote:

and remember top rankers are don't like to play them too xd
This is exactly what I mean. Also even most horrible mania mapset is still better than best autoconvert, just because someone put his effort in it. Saying that autoconvert is better than even worst mapper's creation is demotivating imo. Something along "why would I even want to try mapping when osu can generate something that pepole will like more than my maps". We shouldn't be saying that.
Nanatsu
1,138 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu

-Kamikaze- wrote:

_S u w a k o_ wrote:

and remember top rankers are don't like to play them too xd
This is exactly what I mean. Also even most horrible mania mapset is still better than best autoconvert, just because someone put his effort in it. Saying that autoconvert is better than even worst mapper's creation is demotivating imo. Something along "why would I even want to try mapping when osu can generate something that pepole will like more than my maps". We shouldn't be saying that.

don't know.. then you should think effort of mania autoconvert pattern code maker too xd

have you imagine how many players who spent time to autoconvert for some pp will be fucked up? it's not even kinda tag4 problem.

remember why many ppl use pp farming word. especially 'farming'. this is totally reflects they playing for pp rather than for fun lol
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura
Eeh, pretty sure autoconverts were just implemented because there were hardly any mania-specific mapsets at the time, and they had to offer something to play from what already existed. I firmly believe this is no longer needed. We're also not sacrificing whoever has coded the autoconverts generator work as we do not want to remove the autoconverts but instead make them unranked. People could still play them if they feel like it.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
Yeah, pretty sure that was the main motivation for autoconverts. I still argued that it was a horrible idea and would give players the wrong ideas about mania. Also, it was implemented before there were any mania maps at all. In the beginning, we didn't even have a proper mania editor, and you had to place circles in 'columns' drawn over the standard osu editor (it would ignore a circle's height).
Cman752006
1 post
Joined November 2014
Cman752006
Can you do with 2-players with osu!mania? ;)
PouletFurtif
260 posts
Joined December 2011
PouletFurtif
Why is the co-op mod ranked? Two good 4K players can complete insane 7K/8K maps and easily rank up.
+There is no evidence when scores/replays were co-op'd.
I guess I should post this in the main feedback section.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,296 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
I see the co-op mode as a one person only mode in single player. The co-op mode was made for the multiplayer play just like the standard mode, but it brings interesting maps when played in single player. Keymodes more than 10 may seem impossible, but there are players like ABCDullah that can do up to 16k and these do deserve MASSIVE amounts of PP.

PouletFurtif wrote:

+There is no evidence when scores/replays were co-op'd..
Nor there is that 2 players are playing regular 7k.

Vid:
SPOILER
xwidghet
3 posts
Joined November 2010
xwidghet

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?
Tidek
1,571 posts
Joined March 2011
Tidek
No.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,296 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?

Tidek wrote:

No.
Actually there is. As I learned today: t/319620
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

abraker wrote:

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?

Tidek wrote:

No.
Actually there is. As I learned today: t/319620
This is info that we had over a month ago. Nothing new on DT PP front.
Arief Santosa
206 posts
Joined February 2015
Arief Santosa
its so hard play mania HD 7K :cry:
dennischan
454 posts
Joined June 2013
dennischan
Delete autoconverts plz big boy.
stryver12
231 posts
Joined August 2012
stryver12
Rank HR and Random please...
I mostly rely on random to clear hard maps / charts when I play LR2.

*I know this might sound stupid or has been suggested, but please... consider it, especially HR
Tidek
1,571 posts
Joined March 2011
Tidek
HR yes, with some updgrades.

Random? never
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
I will reiterate that it's a shame random can't have it's own leaderboard with no PP, because that would be kinda cool. But it's no huge loss, because I remember when there was no random mod.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,296 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Still no. Random cannot ever be ranked even into even the gimmick category due to it not being consistent. One generation of a random map can be much harder or easier than another generation.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
Which is why I said "without PP".

It would be interesting to see how well players are able to do on maps with random. Symmetrical patterns tend to make for particularly awkward randoms no matter how random shuffles them, by the way, so not everything is going to be automatically easier just because of random. Beyond that, the point was simply that it would be interesting to see what leaderborads for random would look like. I never said it would be fair, or useful for anything, just that it would be interesting, and fun even despite the lack of PP incentive.

Not sure what you mean by "gimmick category" either.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
Mirror mod when
right scratch users really suffer, y'know?
abraker
Global Moderator
8,296 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
I sense a disturbance within the topic. This isn't a "which mod should be added" thread. If you have new features in mind, go here.


Bobbias wrote:

Not sure what you mean by "gimmick category" either.
t/293841
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
Do I care if random has leaderboards? not really, no. Certainly not enough to make a feature request (not that it would have any chance of being added anyway). I was simply clarifying my position on why it's a shame random doesn't have a leaderboard. Full stop.

Kamikaze was responding to me. Mirror mod has been discussed before, and there's no need for kamikaze to post there anyway.

abraker wrote:

Bobbias wrote:

Not sure what you mean by "gimmick category" either.
t/293841
Oh, that's only somewhat related anyway, since it's an entirely different type of leaderboard being discussed there. I was referring to haveing some sort of mod-specific leaderboard that happened to not be used for PP calculations. That suggestion has to do more with promoting maps that otherwise don't get the respect they deserve because people tend to ignore anything that doesn't have a leaderboard attached to it here. (Because casual users are spoiled into thinking leaderboards are normal, and that anything that doesn't have a leaderboard is inferior, since that's what ranking implies).
Jinjin
886 posts
Joined September 2013
Jinjin
So.... HT apparently gives pp again lol
6GoodNight9
6GoodNight9
AiAe SHD + HT = pp pool
October Scream
119 posts
Joined June 2013
October Scream

dennischan wrote:

Delete autoconverts plz big boy.
My yes.

iJinjin wrote:

So.... HT apparently gives pp again lol

6GoodNight9 wrote:

AiAe SHD + HT = pp pool
My what the fuck is this. Half Time pp, but no Double Time pp? Let me tell you guys I have learned something over the start of this thread, and it's that Double Time is not easy to manipulate when on an actual mania chart. For people who put effort into Double Time plays like Haelequin and get only the normal amount of pp that they'd get for the average play, then you have people S ranking the same song on HT and getting more pp for a lack of effort, that's just damn wrong.

Autoconverts should've stopped giving pp all together, as well as that stupid "play all the maps get all the pp" system. F1rstLove isn't even as decent of a player compared to who else there is in the game, but just because he's out there farming away pp by playing every single difficulty from every ranked map possible, he was able to pass the 9k pp first before anyone else in the whole game. People have also manipulated that pp method by Double Timing and No Failing every song they can just to get the bonus pp for touching the damn auto converts. I think this should be a game of skill, not a game of "how fast can I play through all the autoconverts and charts with No Fail just for extra pp."
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

October Scream wrote:

F1rstLove isn't even as decent of a player compared to who else there is in the game, but just because he's out there farming away pp by playing every single difficulty from every ranked map possible, he was able to pass the 9k pp first before anyone else in the whole game.
that's not how pp works
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