I would agree with thisBobbias wrote:
I'd say DT deserves to be separate more than xk mods on autoconverts.
forum
Performance Points feedback and suggestions (osu!mania)
posted
Total Posts
635
What about HR?
I suppose HR might also deserve it... Although I'd say less than DT. With HR, if you're capable of getting a good score (let's say 98-100%) on something, it's not going to be that much harder. The HP drain increase is nearly meaningless at that point, and the OD increase likely won't make a very large impact on your accuracy, although it will at least have more of an effect than the increased HP drain.Tidek wrote:
What about HR?
Topic Starter
DT would start giving a pp bonus again, yes.Staiain wrote:
So this means the return of DT + pp then ?
No. It's the same map, just faster. Of course both your DT and nomod scores would be stored, but you couldn't get pp for nomod AND for DT at the same time. You'd only get pp for whichever of the 2 scores gives more pp. Just to clarify: Scores with different mods would all get stored, but only your most giving pp score of these would count towards your total pp.Blocko wrote:
What about DT plays? Would they be separate plays as well?
Keymods are the only ones with which you will possibly be able to get pp multiple times from the same map.
Does this imply that things like country ranking and global ranking are going to decrease in relevancy due to the fact that some players will only play maps on dt, making the score they receive not reflective of the no-mod score? Could this be solved by changing the ranking system to going by pp earned (or creating an entirely new ranking for supporters or similar)?
I imagine this will be too complicated to implement, so nah.Tristan97 wrote:
Does this imply that things like country ranking and global ranking are going to decrease in relevancy due to the fact that some players will only play maps on dt, making the score they receive not reflective of the no-mod score? Could this be solved by changing the ranking system to going by pp earned (or creating an entirely new ranking for supporters or similar)?
btw we could totally have hr back as ranked mod
The main problem is that no1 will care about scoreboard on map when it will be implement. (unless DT will increase max possible points to for example 1,12mln but thats not going to happen i guess)
You can just get a nomod highscore for places and dt score for pp, I see no problem here.
Also nobody really cares about scoreboard if they farm pp, it's just an addition
Also nobody really cares about scoreboard if they farm pp, it's just an addition
Looks like not in this caseJimJoy wrote:
but isnt pp calculated only for passes with highest score?
Also, I'd like to ask if there is any ETA about the new DT pp calculations going liveTom94 wrote:
Just to clarify: Scores with different mods would all get stored, but only your most giving pp score of these would count towards your total pp.
Requesting additional clarification for the first part of this post: I understand the part about all scores getting stored and the highest PP score of them count, but are the leaderboards exclusive from the performance point calculation?Tom94 wrote:
Just to clarify: Scores with different mods would all get stored, but only your most giving pp score of these would count towards your total pp.
Keymods are the only ones with which you will possibly be able to get pp multiple times from the same map.
What I mean is this: if someone were to get 1000 MAX and 20 300s on a song and have that score recorded, and then played the same song and got 980 MAX and 40 300s (improbable but possible on easier songs), would the first score be the one to show up on the leaderboards since it is a higher score?
As an aside, I'm slowly getting back into osu! again and I apologize if this question comes across as stupid.
I'm actually curious if a 90 - 95 % score on DT will be worth more than 98 - 100% score nomod PP wise, if it is imagine the potential to start DT'ing 4 - 5 star maps 
@Halogen
This will basically mean that if you have that 1000xMAX 20x300 score on leaderboards and let's say it gives 150pp, and then you'll score 950xMAX 70x300 score with DT that would give 200 pp, the first score is counted towards your positions on map ranking (since it has higher score) and second one is counted towards your pp (since it gives more)
Hope that explains it D:
This will basically mean that if you have that 1000xMAX 20x300 score on leaderboards and let's say it gives 150pp, and then you'll score 950xMAX 70x300 score with DT that would give 200 pp, the first score is counted towards your positions on map ranking (since it has higher score) and second one is counted towards your pp (since it gives more)
Hope that explains it D:
sorry for almost double posting but, will the PP gain scale with the star diffuculty, like if a map is 6* on DT, will it give the same amount as a 6* map nomod?
This is the case for other modes I think, so I'd assume so.Staiain wrote:
sorry for almost double posting but, will the PP gain scale with the star diffuculty, like if a map is 6* on DT, will it give the same amount as a 6* map nomod?
That does, thanks!-Kamikaze- wrote:
@Halogen
This will basically mean that if you have that 1000xMAX 20x300 score on leaderboards and let's say it gives 150pp, and then you'll score 950xMAX 70x300 score with DT that would give 200 pp, the first score is counted towards your positions on map ranking (since it has higher score) and second one is counted towards your pp (since it gives more)
Hope that explains it D:
Not sure if this has already been explained but here goes:
So i download a ranked beatmap and first play ever get 57pp weighted at 24%, it says i should get 14pp, which is fair enough. I look and i only have 1pp added to my total, regardless of how long i wait for it to update. Can someone explain why this is?
So i download a ranked beatmap and first play ever get 57pp weighted at 24%, it says i should get 14pp, which is fair enough. I look and i only have 1pp added to my total, regardless of how long i wait for it to update. Can someone explain why this is?
When you got that score with 57pp, all scores you have got that are worth less than 57pp reduced their weighting in 5% (reducing the amount of pp they give).SolidGuy wrote:
Not sure if this has already been explained but here goes:
So i download a ranked beatmap and first play ever get 57pp weighted at 24%, it says i should get 14pp, which is fair enough. I look and i only have 1pp added to my total, regardless of how long i wait for it to update. Can someone explain why this is?
So I know this may have already been discussed to an extent, but if the different keymodes are suppossed to be treated as different modes, then why are there not separate rankings for each keymode? That would help solve a lot of discrepancies with rankings and such.
The hype continues, waiting for server implementation :')
PLZ INCLUDE RANDOM MODE RANK SCORE TOO
How would you make it work with everyone playing the same map with different patterns everytime ? :c_S u w a k o_ wrote:
PLZ INCLUDE RANDOM MODE RANK SCORE TOO
I'm against random being ranked, because it messes up mapper's work too much. It changes patterns that are supossed to be tricky into just random placed which makes it easier (not in all cases obv). I would love to see mirror mod ranked though, it would be perfect for 2p players and on one-hand bias maps
I've wondered this myself. It seems like there's still some merit in valuing higher keymodes, but I don't understand why.Tristan97 wrote:
So I know this may have already been discussed to an extent, but if the different keymodes are suppossed to be treated as different modes, then why are there not separate rankings for each keymode? That would help solve a lot of discrepancies with rankings and such.
Random is something that absolutely should never be ranked. Pattern deviations can cause one person's attempt at a map to be easier than someone else's. That kind of deviation has no place in ranking._S u w a k o_ wrote:
PLZ INCLUDE RANDOM MODE RANK SCORE TOO
if u guys thinks about fair, i think mirror mode would be fit and reasonable.
and the mirror is exist in hardrock mode. ( even they don't use it for mirror pattern )
and the mirror is exist in hardrock mode. ( even they don't use it for mirror pattern )
Umm... Saw this thread casually.
I don't know much about other things but my opinion is that autoconvert must be unrankable.
As a player for years I can say that at least 95% autoconvert is not qualifyied to be rankable.
And about score,I think it's necessary to intensify the condition of combo.I met uncountable times
that situations like I was 96% 1 miss being beaten by 98% 30miss. It's just ridiculous.
Thanks for reading ._.
I don't know much about other things but my opinion is that autoconvert must be unrankable.
As a player for years I can say that at least 95% autoconvert is not qualifyied to be rankable.
And about score,I think it's necessary to intensify the condition of combo.I met uncountable times
that situations like I was 96% 1 miss being beaten by 98% 30miss. It's just ridiculous.
Thanks for reading ._.
Scoring system is set in stone now, there's no way they're gonna change it. As for autoconverts this has been said and repeated again and again but they somehow want to keep them ranked >.>
The only legitimate type of "random" mod should be mirror in my opinion, as the hand bias levels would be the same, just switched onto different hands. Using any other deviation of patterns would make the file's patterns too different from the original to really be compared legitimately. Little off-topic, but why isn't there a Mirror option for o!m anyway? Feels a little odd to have a random mod but not mirror.
also DT PP hype
also DT PP hype
Staiain wrote:
Any news on the DT PP front?
Staiain wrote:
Any news on the DT PP front?
Staiain wrote:
Any news on the DT PP front?
Staiain wrote:
Any news on the DT PP front?
Posting this because this bug is not fixed. Yesterday I asked morisan7 to try Pipe Dream on 8K because it has a 6.22 star rating and offers approximately 400p with an A rank. I've compared his score to other people who has similar scores, and I noticed that some changes have been implemented to the pp system.
morisan7's score - 90.95% (194pp)
someone's score - 90.83% (399pp)
It seems like people who have tried this song recently do not get the same pp as the ones before. Please look into this problem, thank you.
morisan7's score - 90.95% (194pp)
someone's score - 90.83% (399pp)
It seems like people who have tried this song recently do not get the same pp as the ones before. Please look into this problem, thank you.
Good thing you've brought that up. In standard you guys have disabled pp from tag maps because of "pp abuse", basically one touchscreen player getting 555pp from one of the maps. So why do we still have autoconverts when you can get 350pp from some of them, and you get shit like pipe dream that gets 200pp for ss nomod and 650pp for s on 8k? That's clearly more abusing than one 555pp play, isn't it? And we do we HAVE to play autoconverts to be able to fight for top ranks? That's nonsense.
autoconverts
lol
lol
Staiain wrote:
Any news on the DT PP front?
wtf recently i saw lovesmack player's bp which named Ex something and he still could get 6~700 worth pp.. i quite confuse @.@_Sylveon_ wrote:
Posting this because this bug is not fixed. Yesterday I asked morisan7 to try Pipe Dream on 8K because it has a 6.22 star rating and offers approximately 400p with an A rank. I've compared his score to other people who has similar scores, and I noticed that some changes have been implemented to the pp system.
morisan7's score - 90.95% (194pp)
someone's score - 90.83% (399pp)
It seems like people who have tried this song recently do not get the same pp as the ones before. Please look into this problem, thank you.
-Kamikaze- wrote:
Good thing you've brought that up. In standard you guys have disabled pp from tag maps because of "pp abuse", basically one touchscreen player getting 555pp from one of the maps. So why do we still have autoconverts when you can get 350pp from some of them, and you get shit like pipe dream that gets 200pp for ss nomod and 650pp for s on 8k? That's clearly more abusing than one 555pp play, isn't it? And we do we HAVE to play autoconverts to be able to fight for top ranks? That's nonsense.
i agree your opinion of pipe dream overall. but, u don't have to blame autoconverts. lol
the autoconvert maps are still osu! mania mapset itself. they still follow music and has pattern.
i know, the patterns are kinda terrible. i still understand it a lot since i am a mapper and player.
but you might already know that most of autoconverts are not have worth pp like mania specific maps..
the amount of high pp maps are limited than specific maps. i think it's still reasonable.
You still need to play autoconverts in order to be top 10, even if your nickname is jhlee0133 or abcdullah
and that's WRONG
and that's WRONG
From the standard pp discussion thread
Now that we're past the "everything that has a scoreboard must give pp" philosophy, can we talk about removing pp from autoconverts? They are awful, would never have passed the ranking rules as a mania map, they bring nothing but pp calculation issues both in mania and taiko, and players, especially newcomers, should not be encouraged to play them instead of actual mania maps.Tom94 wrote:
Now lastly, why did all tag maps lose their pp rather than only the 2 problematic ones? The answer is being consistent. tag maps were never meant to be played by a single player and would have never passed the ranking rules - even back then - when being considered as single-player maps. This simply was a good opportunity to remove them from ranked play altogether. Scoreboards have been kept to let people keep the amazing scores they put tons of effort into and to keep the niche competition that obviously many enjoy.
yesyesyesyesyesRedon wrote:
From the standard pp discussion threadNow that we're past the "everything that has a scoreboard must give pp" philosophy, can we talk about removing pp from autoconverts? They are awful, would never have passed the ranking rules as a mania map, they bring nothing but pp calculation issues both in mania and taiko, and players, especially newcomers, should not be encouraged to play them instead of actual mania maps.Tom94 wrote:
Now lastly, why did all tag maps lose their pp rather than only the 2 problematic ones? The answer is being consistent. tag maps were never meant to be played by a single player and would have never passed the ranking rules - even back then - when being considered as single-player maps. This simply was a good opportunity to remove them from ranked play altogether. Scoreboards have been kept to let people keep the amazing scores they put tons of effort into and to keep the niche competition that obviously many enjoy.
So much thisRedon wrote:
From the standard pp discussion threadNow that we're past the "everything that has a scoreboard must give pp" philosophy, can we talk about removing pp from autoconverts? They are awful, would never have passed the ranking rules as a mania map, they bring nothing but pp calculation issues both in mania and taiko, and players, especially newcomers, should not be encouraged to play them instead of actual mania maps.Tom94 wrote:
Now lastly, why did all tag maps lose their pp rather than only the 2 problematic ones? The answer is being consistent. tag maps were never meant to be played by a single player and would have never passed the ranking rules - even back then - when being considered as single-player maps. This simply was a good opportunity to remove them from ranked play altogether. Scoreboards have been kept to let people keep the amazing scores they put tons of effort into and to keep the niche competition that obviously many enjoy.
-Kamikaze- wrote:
You still need to play autoconverts in order to be top 10, even if your nickname is jhlee0133 or abcdullah
and that's WRONG
i bet you talking about #1 person who was farmed autoconverts a lot.
then i will say my opinion as top 10 player. lol. you will get 0 pp even you fc 4.2~4.5 star rating difficulty map.
then imagine how many maps which has star rating 4 stars over in autoconvert. i think 20 maps around?
so, is it still painful? hmm. whatever i know your feeling and intention. but it's not absoultely wrong imo
Whole thread in a nutshell.Redon wrote:
From the standard pp discussion threadNow that we're past the "everything that has a scoreboard must give pp" philosophy, can we talk about removing pp from autoconverts? They are awful, would never have passed the ranking rules as a mania map, they bring nothing but pp calculation issues both in mania and taiko, and players, especially newcomers, should not be encouraged to play them instead of actual mania maps.Tom94 wrote:
Now lastly, why did all tag maps lose their pp rather than only the 2 problematic ones? The answer is being consistent. tag maps were never meant to be played by a single player and would have never passed the ranking rules - even back then - when being considered as single-player maps. This simply was a good opportunity to remove them from ranked play altogether. Scoreboards have been kept to let people keep the amazing scores they put tons of effort into and to keep the niche competition that obviously many enjoy.
@Suwako: Autoconverts are not fully fledged mania maps, they are horrific to play, have broken note placement, random density and AWFUL patterns. This kind of map shouldn't give ANY pp. NEVER. Having players play autoconverts in mixed mapsets with mania diffs in it is just sad.
i would copy what i said again
'the autoconvert maps are still osu! mania mapset itself. they still follow music and has pattern.
i know, the patterns are kinda terrible. i still understand it a lot since i am a mapper and player.'
to be honest, some of mania specific maps are even worse than autoconverts lol
pp is follows star rating of mapset difficulty rather than mapset quality itself.
then autoconverts are still need to give pp for consistency until star rating system changes
and remember top rankers are don't like to play them too xd include horrible mania specific mapset too
'the autoconvert maps are still osu! mania mapset itself. they still follow music and has pattern.
i know, the patterns are kinda terrible. i still understand it a lot since i am a mapper and player.'
to be honest, some of mania specific maps are even worse than autoconverts lol
pp is follows star rating of mapset difficulty rather than mapset quality itself.
then autoconverts are still need to give pp for consistency until star rating system changes
and remember top rankers are don't like to play them too xd include horrible mania specific mapset too
This is exactly what I mean. Also even most horrible mania mapset is still better than best autoconvert, just because someone put his effort in it. Saying that autoconvert is better than even worst mapper's creation is demotivating imo. Something along "why would I even want to try mapping when osu can generate something that pepole will like more than my maps". We shouldn't be saying that._S u w a k o_ wrote:
and remember top rankers are don't like to play them too xd
-Kamikaze- wrote:
This is exactly what I mean. Also even most horrible mania mapset is still better than best autoconvert, just because someone put his effort in it. Saying that autoconvert is better than even worst mapper's creation is demotivating imo. Something along "why would I even want to try mapping when osu can generate something that pepole will like more than my maps". We shouldn't be saying that._S u w a k o_ wrote:
and remember top rankers are don't like to play them too xd
don't know.. then you should think effort of mania autoconvert pattern code maker too xd
have you imagine how many players who spent time to autoconvert for some pp will be fucked up? it's not even kinda tag4 problem.
remember why many ppl use pp farming word. especially 'farming'. this is totally reflects they playing for pp rather than for fun lol
Eeh, pretty sure autoconverts were just implemented because there were hardly any mania-specific mapsets at the time, and they had to offer something to play from what already existed. I firmly believe this is no longer needed. We're also not sacrificing whoever has coded the autoconverts generator work as we do not want to remove the autoconverts but instead make them unranked. People could still play them if they feel like it.
Yeah, pretty sure that was the main motivation for autoconverts. I still argued that it was a horrible idea and would give players the wrong ideas about mania. Also, it was implemented before there were any mania maps at all. In the beginning, we didn't even have a proper mania editor, and you had to place circles in 'columns' drawn over the standard osu editor (it would ignore a circle's height).
Can you do with 2-players with osu!mania? 
Why is the co-op mod ranked? Two good 4K players can complete insane 7K/8K maps and easily rank up.
+There is no evidence when scores/replays were co-op'd.
I guess I should post this in the main feedback section.
+There is no evidence when scores/replays were co-op'd.
I guess I should post this in the main feedback section.
I see the co-op mode as a one person only mode in single player. The co-op mode was made for the multiplayer play just like the standard mode, but it brings interesting maps when played in single player. Keymodes more than 10 may seem impossible, but there are players like ABCDullah that can do up to 16k and these do deserve MASSIVE amounts of PP.
Vid:
Nor there is that 2 players are playing regular 7k.PouletFurtif wrote:
+There is no evidence when scores/replays were co-op'd..
Vid:
No.
its so hard play mania HD 7K 
Delete autoconverts plz big boy.
Rank HR and Random please...
I mostly rely on random to clear hard maps / charts when I play LR2.
*I know this might sound stupid or has been suggested, but please... consider it, especially HR
I mostly rely on random to clear hard maps / charts when I play LR2.
*I know this might sound stupid or has been suggested, but please... consider it, especially HR
HR yes, with some updgrades.
Random? never
Random? never
I will reiterate that it's a shame random can't have it's own leaderboard with no PP, because that would be kinda cool. But it's no huge loss, because I remember when there was no random mod.
Still no. Random cannot ever be ranked even into even the gimmick category due to it not being consistent. One generation of a random map can be much harder or easier than another generation.
Which is why I said "without PP".
It would be interesting to see how well players are able to do on maps with random. Symmetrical patterns tend to make for particularly awkward randoms no matter how random shuffles them, by the way, so not everything is going to be automatically easier just because of random. Beyond that, the point was simply that it would be interesting to see what leaderborads for random would look like. I never said it would be fair, or useful for anything, just that it would be interesting, and fun even despite the lack of PP incentive.
Not sure what you mean by "gimmick category" either.
It would be interesting to see how well players are able to do on maps with random. Symmetrical patterns tend to make for particularly awkward randoms no matter how random shuffles them, by the way, so not everything is going to be automatically easier just because of random. Beyond that, the point was simply that it would be interesting to see what leaderborads for random would look like. I never said it would be fair, or useful for anything, just that it would be interesting, and fun even despite the lack of PP incentive.
Not sure what you mean by "gimmick category" either.
Mirror mod when
right scratch users really suffer, y'know?
right scratch users really suffer, y'know?
Do I care if random has leaderboards? not really, no. Certainly not enough to make a feature request (not that it would have any chance of being added anyway). I was simply clarifying my position on why it's a shame random doesn't have a leaderboard. Full stop.
Kamikaze was responding to me. Mirror mod has been discussed before, and there's no need for kamikaze to post there anyway.
Kamikaze was responding to me. Mirror mod has been discussed before, and there's no need for kamikaze to post there anyway.
Oh, that's only somewhat related anyway, since it's an entirely different type of leaderboard being discussed there. I was referring to haveing some sort of mod-specific leaderboard that happened to not be used for PP calculations. That suggestion has to do more with promoting maps that otherwise don't get the respect they deserve because people tend to ignore anything that doesn't have a leaderboard attached to it here. (Because casual users are spoiled into thinking leaderboards are normal, and that anything that doesn't have a leaderboard is inferior, since that's what ranking implies).abraker wrote:
t/293841Bobbias wrote:
Not sure what you mean by "gimmick category" either.
My yes.dennischan wrote:
Delete autoconverts plz big boy.
iJinjin wrote:
So.... HT apparently gives pp again lol
My what the fuck is this. Half Time pp, but no Double Time pp? Let me tell you guys I have learned something over the start of this thread, and it's that Double Time is not easy to manipulate when on an actual mania chart. For people who put effort into Double Time plays like Haelequin and get only the normal amount of pp that they'd get for the average play, then you have people S ranking the same song on HT and getting more pp for a lack of effort, that's just damn wrong.6GoodNight9 wrote:
AiAe SHD + HT = pp pool
Autoconverts should've stopped giving pp all together, as well as that stupid "play all the maps get all the pp" system. F1rstLove isn't even as decent of a player compared to who else there is in the game, but just because he's out there farming away pp by playing every single difficulty from every ranked map possible, he was able to pass the 9k pp first before anyone else in the whole game. People have also manipulated that pp method by Double Timing and No Failing every song they can just to get the bonus pp for touching the damn auto converts. I think this should be a game of skill, not a game of "how fast can I play through all the autoconverts and charts with No Fail just for extra pp."
that's not how pp worksOctober Scream wrote:
F1rstLove isn't even as decent of a player compared to who else there is in the game, but just because he's out there farming away pp by playing every single difficulty from every ranked map possible, he was able to pass the 9k pp first before anyone else in the whole game.
That's not how it should work. I've read up about it and it's true, that's how pp works sadly. Tally up F1rstLove's pp from top plays and then compare it to other players out there.silmarilen wrote:
that's not how pp works
On the left is F1rstLove's pp, without going down to the second page of his top plays. The right is jhlee, without going to the second page of top plays. Guess who's in first? F1rstLove. Without even going to the second page, jhlee has already passed F1rstLove in terms of Top Play pp.
That issue is not actually because of autoconverts, it's because of the amount of maps played.
There is a small pp bonus from playing many ranked maps, that caps at 416.6667pp
jhlee has about 235 maps played, so he gets 54.81pp
F1rstLove has about 13220 maps played, so he gets 416.517pp.
In the other game modes, this is not an issue, since people who are good at the game generally have played a lot of maps.
There is a small pp bonus from playing many ranked maps, that caps at 416.6667pp
jhlee has about 235 maps played, so he gets 54.81pp
F1rstLove has about 13220 maps played, so he gets 416.517pp.
In the other game modes, this is not an issue, since people who are good at the game generally have played a lot of maps.
Autoconverts are going towards this thing, which is what really makes me and other users not happy. The amount of maps played shouldn't make a player, it should be the amount of skill.Full Tablet wrote:
That issue is not actually because of autoconverts, it's because of the amount of maps played.
DeletedUser_2024727
WOAH! So much to say about the last few posts.
I have no clue what this is either, but this certainly creates an imbalance. Iit has been confirmed that DT pp will be a thing once peppy does the per mod ranking.October Scream wrote:
My what the fuck is this. Half Time pp, but no Double Time pp? Let me tell you guys I have learned something over the start of this thread, and it's that Double Time is not easy to manipulate when on an actual mania chart. For people who put effort into Double Time plays like Haelequin and get only the normal amount of pp that they'd get for the average play, then you have people S ranking the same song on HT and getting more pp for a lack of effort, that's just damn wrong.
I will add this to support your argument. It is obvious that the pp system is not 100% perfect, but it's the best thing we got so far. Initially it was a huge improvement on the score based ranking method. I am currently working on a method and system to compare players' skills to each other, and if it proves effective maybe Tom64 or peppy will notice.October Scream wrote:
<facts conserning f1rstLove and jhlee>
I think that the best solution in this case is removing the pp bonus from playing many maps.October Scream wrote:
Autoconverts are going towards this thing, which is what really makes me and other users not happy. The amount of maps played shouldn't make a player, it should be the amount of skill.Full Tablet wrote:
That issue is not actually because of autoconverts, it's because of the amount of maps played.
DeletedUser_2024727
Combine those solutions and we have two problems solved, because the bonus pp for play includes regular mania charts too.Choofers wrote:
the best solution is to remove pp from auto-convertsFull Tablet wrote:
I think that the best solution in this case is removing the pp bonus from playing many maps.
My understanding is that autoconverts are the way there are because there were not enough mania maps to come by. I wouldn't want to remove pp from them, they still have to be worth something. I think the big issue here is what f1rstlove complained in this thread.Choofers wrote:
the best solution is to remove pp from auto-convertsFull Tablet wrote:
I think that the best solution in this case is removing the pp bonus from playing many maps.
We have enough mania maps for people to get pp without auto converts, which is why they should be removed. Unlike CtB or Taiko, standard converts poorly to mania with its garbled patterns and poor note placements.abraker wrote:
My understanding is that autoconverts are the way there are because there were not enough mania maps to come by. I wouldn't want to remove pp from them, they still have to be worth something. I think the big issue here is what f1rstlove complained in this thread.
True, but even playing dysfunctional maps requires skill. They cannot be appreciated, but it's something.October Scream wrote:
Unlike CtB or Taiko, standard converts poorly to mania with its garbled patterns and poor note placements.
Playing dysfunctional converts like Ascension to Heaven, Mad Machine, Everything Will Freeze, and Worldwide Choppers is not something. It's like going to a restaurant and getting a steak, then being given a two spoons to eat it. You'll eventually get it, but you won't enjoy the crap work you went through.abraker wrote:
True, but even playing dysfunctional maps requires skill. They cannot be appreciated, but it's something.
This kinda reminds me of the older standard maps, when the ranking process was lenient. I never enjoy those maps as much as today's maps and avoid them as a result. While I don't have the same feeling towards autoconverted ranked maps, I guess ranked maps have to have an aesthetic to them. But I will still be towards for not deranking autoconverted maps. Lots of lower ranked players play them, and I don't think it will be in their favor if this would happen.October Scream wrote:
You'll eventually get it, but you won't enjoy the crap work you went through.
Thing is if you're only starting as a mania player you will most likely not care about pp at all. Making it so pp are only awarded by mania specific maps will send players on the right track naturally without the need to correct them as soon as they start caring about ranking.
@October Scream
Autoconverts for taiko and ctb are shit too, dont say too much about game modes where u dont have basic knowledge about them.
@Topic
You guys forgot why DT was removed from ranking? Because it was overpowered, especially on autoconverts and now it will be even more overpowered because of easy to spam maps like haelequin or space time.
Dont expect that DT pp will be added without fixing a star rating formula. But Im honestly surprised that HT started to give pp again, maybe its a sign that some important changes are gonna happen.
Autoconverts for taiko and ctb are shit too, dont say too much about game modes where u dont have basic knowledge about them.
@Topic
You guys forgot why DT was removed from ranking? Because it was overpowered, especially on autoconverts and now it will be even more overpowered because of easy to spam maps like haelequin or space time.
Dont expect that DT pp will be added without fixing a star rating formula. But Im honestly surprised that HT started to give pp again, maybe its a sign that some important changes are gonna happen.
Umm, you obviously haven't seen me play CtB before Tidek. I think the way standard maps concert for CtB is WAAAAAY better than what converts for mania. Taiko maps convert poorly too, but still better than what you get from mania because of the fact it's mapped towards hit sounds and not putting random shit out for you. Trust me I don't sit around and just play mania. Maybe if you looked more.Tidek wrote:
@October Scream
Autoconverts for taiko and ctb are shit too, dont say too much about game modes where u dont have basic knowledge about them.
Also keep in mind YOU have barely any knowledge either. I see nothing about Taiko even, so you shut your trap until you look around and get some experience before bitching to someone who has more knowledge about a certain mode more than you.
Now that I think about it, bringing back DT ranking and deranking autoconverts can be justified. As for the spamming, DT shouldn't scale the hit area with the map to be larger, it's should keep it as it is without DT.Tidek wrote:
You guys forgot why DT was removed from ranking? Because it was overpowered, especially on autoconverts and now it will be even more overpowered because of easy to spam maps like haelequin or space time.
I can agree on this, but if something like that were to happen, I feel that there would be a whole scoreboard reset due to the changing function.abraker wrote:
As for the spamming, DT shouldn't scale the hit area with the map to be larger, it's should keep it as it is without DT.
DeletedUser_2024727
maybe when mania first came out as a playstyle, autoconvert pp was a good thing (lol) but now there are enough ranked charts to probably accurately depict skill levels. there are also a plethora of unranked maps, more than a few of which are significantly better than anything currently ranked/will ever be ranked, so I don't think there will be any detriment now in removing autoconvert pp. ranked maps don't happen very often, so it wouldn't be very hard to keep up with new maps
in the case of dt/ht pp, if there's no way to get it right, or if there's no way to appease the majority, simply remove both from the equation
in the case of dt/ht pp, if there's no way to get it right, or if there's no way to appease the majority, simply remove both from the equation
It wasn't a good thing, it was the only thing. I remember how bullshit the system was in ppv1, to the point of currently 1,5 star autoconvert giving way more pp than currently 4,5 star mania maps. But now that we have ranked maps, there is only one thing right to do
R E M O V E A U T O C O N V E R T
More to the suggestions about 7K (mainly):
-heavy chord maps are heavily overrated, even when they are slow. Especially in comparsion to stream heavy maps. Example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/176336 The Epilogue is a ultra easy to read, very easy to hit and not very fast sith only difficulty coming from having to hit heavy chords, whilist Blocko's Interlude contains much harder to read and hit patterns at considerably higher speed. Star rating counts Epilogue as 6,2* diff and Interlude as 4,5*. My scores for comparsion are: 920k on Epilogue, 730k on Interlude.
-Long note heavy maps with complicated technically are heavily underrated. It's not a big problem with fast and dense LN patterns, but the problem becomes big with long LNs combined with medium lenght ones, without any short LN spam. Also lesser amount of notes with harder LNs loses against simple LNs and heavier note usage, while former is harder. Example: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/498730&m=3 Lv.25 is way harder than Lv.27, but Lv.27 still manages to have 0,5* more. My scores for comparsion: Lv.25 627k (with 5-6 tries) Lv.27 758k (2 tries)
I consider myself as fairly average player in any aspect of 7k
More to the suggestions about 7K (mainly):
-heavy chord maps are heavily overrated, even when they are slow. Especially in comparsion to stream heavy maps. Example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/176336 The Epilogue is a ultra easy to read, very easy to hit and not very fast sith only difficulty coming from having to hit heavy chords, whilist Blocko's Interlude contains much harder to read and hit patterns at considerably higher speed. Star rating counts Epilogue as 6,2* diff and Interlude as 4,5*. My scores for comparsion are: 920k on Epilogue, 730k on Interlude.
-Long note heavy maps with complicated technically are heavily underrated. It's not a big problem with fast and dense LN patterns, but the problem becomes big with long LNs combined with medium lenght ones, without any short LN spam. Also lesser amount of notes with harder LNs loses against simple LNs and heavier note usage, while former is harder. Example: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/498730&m=3 Lv.25 is way harder than Lv.27, but Lv.27 still manages to have 0,5* more. My scores for comparsion: Lv.25 627k (with 5-6 tries) Lv.27 758k (2 tries)
I consider myself as fairly average player in any aspect of 7k
change everything
ty
ty
^
not gonna happen
but I can only agree
not gonna happen
but I can only agree