Echo wrote:

I was quoting the whole post, which you admit applying your reply to. You refused to answer/comment on my statements/questions, one of which was the conversation in the quoted text. Since it applied to all my questions/statements, I don't think it's out of context?

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

dammit WHY do the doctors always need to expose themselves on the first day?

D= I didn't mean to.

Firstly, strager never claimed doctor. He just went with what I said. The real doctor would have tried to cover it up. strager, on the other hand, admitted it straight away.

Echo wrote:

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

I meant to say I wasn't convinced by someone else. Sorry.

So you admit that you convinced yourself adam is townie? My point still stands - you can't convince yourself someone is townie when they haven't made a single proper post unless you already know they're townie.

Secondly, he admitted to convincing himself adam is townie without adam making any real posts. Plus, he completely ignored this accusation in his last post.

Echo wrote:

0_o wrote:

And how exactly does mentioning the cop imply that he's claiming cop??

The cop role shouldn't be on your mind, since he's useless until after the first night. Therefore, mentioning it is a tad suspicious. Why would strager be thinking about the cop, then?

adam2046 wrote:

So uh...Why am I being voted if you want to lynch Echo or strager?
Can I have some follow up points on how I'm suspicious?

LadySuburu wrote:

Votecount 3:

strager - 2 (adam, nardi)
adam - 2 (0_o, SFG)
Echo - 1 (strager)
SFG - 1 (BagelBob)




Not voting: 3 - (Olinad, Echo, Derekku)

Echo wrote:

tbh if strager had said something like "I'm just curious to know about the rules around the doctor and how protection works" I wouldn't have had anything to go on, since that would only lead to WIFOM thinking.

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

tbh if strager had said something like "I'm just curious to know about the rules around the doctor and how protection works" I wouldn't have had anything to go on, since that would only lead to WIFOM thinking.

Well, I don't ask questions like that, really. I try to be a little more specific in my questions than "how does the Doctor work exactly?" If I had asked the question you suggest I would probably get an answer similar to what the PM states and not what I wanted to know. But you're right, the "claim" wouldn't be discovered and maybe I would have been better protected (because I don't have to worry about the Mafia trying to kill me because they don't know I am the doctor).

Olinard, are you back yet? It's been more than two hours since you said "brb." ;P

EDIT: Echo, what is WIFOM thinking? xD Sounds like "superhypothetical" thinking.

Echo wrote:

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wine_In_Front_Of_Me

I thought I'd linked that before :/

Basically it's what you do in your early posts.

"if adam was mafia then [something] BUT if adam is townie then [something] which means he must be mafia if he did it but then that makes him townie because he's smart enough to know it makes him look townie, which means he's actualy mafia, which makes him townie, which makes him mafia etc."

Echo wrote:

By "you" I mean the second person pronoun (ie. you, strager), and not the generic "you"

Article wrote:

In Mafia, WIFOM arguments are often a Scum tactic used to distract the Town.

adam2046 wrote:

...Why aren't you voting yourself then SFG?

adam2046 wrote:

So you do want to get me lynched?
You are still mad at me.

adam2046 wrote:

I wont be arounf for a little while, if anyone wants to lynch poor little defensless me (SFG) please don't.
You'll make me cryyyyyy T.T

adam2046 wrote:

Don't you try and allay (^_~) suspicion from yourself by pointing out her.

adam2046 wrote:

Hey, I'm not the one claiming doctor.

adam2046 wrote:

Don't you try and allay (^_~) suspicion from yourself by pointing out her.

adam2046 wrote:

I don't get it...

Echo wrote:

Neither do I.

revote strager

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Echo, why are you voting for strager after specifically stating that Day 1 was a bad time to lynch an important aux claim?

adam2046 wrote:

In my mind all Echo was really doing was hinting to to strager that if he was the real doctor he should unclaim or not claim at all, because strager has continued I think Echo may have come to the conclusion that strager is a wolf.

...At least that's my analysis of the situation.

strager wrote:

These are estimates of course but shows my relative suspicions for everyone.

strager wrote:

Yes, I am 100% sure Echo is a Mafia.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Echo, why are you voting for strager after specifically stating that Day 1 was a bad time to lynch an important aux claim?

0_o wrote:

OK, could you PLEASE explain why I am the second most suspicious person for BELIEVING and DEFENDING you? It seems like if you were the doctor then you wouldn't find me wanting to keep you alive so much suspicious...

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

These are estimates of course but shows my relative suspicions for everyone.

So everyone is 40% mafia.

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

Yes, I am 100% sure Echo is a Mafia.

Lynch me~!

Echo wrote:

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Echo, why are you voting for strager after specifically stating that Day 1 was a bad time to lynch an important aux claim?

Basically what adam said - I'm pretty sure that strager is not doctor, which is why I'm voting him.

strager wrote:

But you have to assume I am a Mafia otherwise you'd be killing a Townie. (Just to mention.)

Echo wrote:

My thinking leads me to believe you're mafia which THEN results in my lynch vote.

You're saying I'm voting to lynch you which THEN makes me try to push the idea you're mafia? o.O

Echo wrote:

I'm pretty sure that strager is not doctor, which is why I'm voting him.

Derekku Chan wrote:

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM

*head is spinning*

strager wrote:

Derekku Chan wrote:

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM

*head is spinning*

I like it when I run unicow's puffy balls all over my face.

adam2046 wrote:

ok...
So strager you're almost certain I'm human, so you stuck me at 40% with BagelBob?

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

I realized now that when I had four players voting for me, no one jumped on the bandwagon for the lynch. This means one of these:

Both Mafia were on the bandwagon already.
I am a Mafia and the other Mafia may or may not have been on the bandwagon. If he was, he would have certainly jumped off at L-1 and probably at L-2.
One or no Mafia were on the bandwagon and the remaining Mafia could not vote to lynch in time.

I am of course striking off the second and am thinking the first is more likely than the third.

I never ever get the point of listing out all the possibilities. Well of course it's one of the three.

Now, if you list only two out of three, for example, and say why the third can't be possible, with evidence, then that's a totally different story.

strager wrote:

For the first case it seems as if adam's vote was random

strager wrote:

and SFG's vote was only somewhat random

strager wrote:

as was nardi's.

strager wrote:

0_o seems to be really trying to defend me which either means he's deceitful

strager wrote:

or genuinely trying to help the town.

strager wrote:

Probably my reasoning.

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

For the first case it seems as if adam's vote was random

Where does it seem random?

strager wrote:

and SFG's vote was only somewhat random

Where does it seem random?

strager wrote:

as was nardi's.

Where does it seem random?

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

0_o seems to be really trying to defend me which either means he's deceitful

Where does it seem deceitful?

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

or genuinely trying to help the town.

Where does he seem helpful?

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

Probably my reasoning.

The problem, as you adequately put it, is that you "didn't reference posts or anything when I wrote it, so it was purely out of feeling." Feelings can't prove anything.

strager wrote:

I have these suspicion percentages (0 - definitely Townie; 100 - definitely Mafia; 50 - undecided):
adam - 40%
BagelBob - 40%
nadi - 40%
SFG - 40%
Olinad - 50%
Derekku - 60%
0_o - 65%
Echo - 100%

These are estimates of course but shows my relative suspicions for everyone.

Yes, I am 100% sure Echo is a Mafia.

BagelBob wrote:

strager wrote:

I have these suspicion percentages (0 - definitely Townie; 100 - definitely Mafia; 50 - undecided):
adam - 40%
BagelBob - 40%
nadi - 40%
SFG - 40%
Olinad - 50%
Derekku - 60%
0_o - 65%
Echo - 100%

These are estimates of course but shows my relative suspicions for everyone.

Yes, I am 100% sure Echo is a Mafia.

All of this is completely baseless. Could you provide any reasoning at all for these numbers? I realize you say later that you changed your mind, but at this time, what made you choose these numbers? Do you have any reasons for Echo being 100% mafia? Why are Derekku and 0_o above 50? Why are the rest of us above 50?

BagelBob wrote:

Do you have any reasons for Echo being 100% mafia?

BagelBob wrote:

This post is full of nothings. First, you say you come to two realizations. Then, you don't post them, and say you'll remove them from your post.

BagelBob wrote:

Next, you quote Echo and restate his post.

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

But you have to assume I am a Mafia otherwise you'd be killing a Townie. (Just to mention.)

More backwards trickiness from strager.

My thinking leads me to believe you're mafia which THEN results in my lynch vote.

You're saying I'm voting to lynch you which THEN makes me try to push the idea you're mafia? o.O

No I'm not saying that. I meant that your statement:

Echo wrote:

I'm pretty sure that strager is not doctor, which is why I'm voting him.

Meant "I'm pretty sure strager is a Mafia, which is why I'm voting for him."

BagelBob wrote:

In your last section, you present a logical fallacy known as false dichotomy. Those are not the only options, there could have been one voting for you and mafia could have any reasons for voting or not voting for you. With this and all your short posts, it's like your posting without saying anything.

BagelBob wrote:

Can I assume from This post that you no longer consider Echo a mafia member?

BagelBob wrote:

In addition, did you mean that adam, SFG, and nardii's votes looked like bandwagon votes?

BagelBob wrote:

You state that you think 0_o and Derekuu were not on the bandwagon, but then you throw junk about random voting.

BagelBob wrote:

Adam's vote started out random, but he kept posting and saying that he was reading the thread and agreed with Echo's logic.

BagelBob wrote:

SFG, you've said you're going with adam since 0_o said he finds him suspicious. All I can find is that his gut says that. Are you satisfied lynching someone who you think is a townie?

adam2046 wrote:

SFG is not voting me because of 0_o, I do not find it said anywhere.

adam2046 wrote:

SFG is not voting me because of 0_o, I do not find it said anywhere.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

well i suppose i am a bit suspicious because when you were mafia last game i couldnt tell that you were at ALL. i think it might have been nardi that pointed a FOS at adam or maybe the FOS wa-oh fuck it let me go find the post

yeah 0_o pointed a FOS at adam and nardi and i chose adam.

also im lol'ing about how you guys are trying to pick apart logic that doesn't exist @_@ also im sick of vote-hopping which is why i havent changed it

LadySuburu wrote:

Not voting: 3 - (Olinad, Derekku, Strager)

Bagelbob wrote:

0_o, why are you in such a hurry? Is it because you were buddying with strager earlier?

You haven't posted much in the way of cases. In fact, your reason for voting adam, is it still your gut?

I'd like it if you could state your opinions on strager. Do you think that he is telling the truth about being the doctor?

If yes, do you think Echo is a mafia member?.

it looks to me like you're trying to stay out of the whole mess

nardi11011 wrote:

It's annoying that 90% of the posts in mafia/ww game threads are made when I'm either asleep or at school. Anyway, I vote strager as he seems the most suspicious to me and this game is confusing as hell compared to WWG.

adam2046 wrote:

So you're no longer certain I'm human Strager, right?

0_o wrote:

If yes, do you think Echo is a mafia member?.

I can't say for sure he isn't mafia

Derekku Chan wrote:

Both olinad and nardi have both pretty much contributed NOTHING to this topic's discussion.

BUT

nardi11011 wrote:

It's annoying that 90% of the posts in mafia/ww game threads are made when I'm either asleep or at school. Anyway, I vote strager as he seems the most suspicious to me and this game is confusing as hell compared to WWG.

he was quick to jump on the bangwagon and vote for strager without any reasoning or proof.

nardi11011 wrote:

I'm not even counting that as a "random" vote because he hasn't even come back to say otherwise.

strager wrote:

What bangwagon? ;P

strager wrote:

No one's random vote was explicitly denoted as a random vote by the voter, either.

adam2046 wrote:

The only person jumping strager's bangwagon is Derek.

strager wrote:

Derekku Chan wrote:

Both olinad and nardi have both pretty much contributed NOTHING to this topic's discussion.

BUT

nardi11011 wrote:

It's annoying that 90% of the posts in mafia/ww game threads are made when I'm either asleep or at school. Anyway, I vote strager as he seems the most suspicious to me and this game is confusing as hell compared to WWG.

he was quick to jump on the bangwagon and vote for strager without any reasoning or proof.

What bangwagon? ;P

I have to agree but as a Mafia why would he do this at L-2 and not L-1? (I asked BagelBob this in my last "real" post.)

nardi11011 wrote:

I'm not even counting that as a "random" vote because he hasn't even come back to say otherwise.

Because no one accused it of not being a random vote? He was never attacked so he wouldn't defend himself. If he did defend himself in advanced that'd looks suspicious because it'd seem as if he had something to hide.

No one's random vote was explicitly denoted as a random vote by the voter, either.

So I don't really see your reasoning here Derekku.

Echo wrote:

In a single sentence:

What strager's been posting are plain facts (reiterating the obvious as explained by BagelBob in his third point), mostly baseless accusations (eg. this post right here, make sure you read previous/next post(s) for context), or blatant coverups of his contradictions (eg. most points in this post).

My vote holds until someone provides a convincing case for strager's behaviour.

That is all.

(edit: found some references)

Derekku Chan wrote:

=( It's late and you guys are making fun of me. D:

EDIT: Yeah, I'm not seeing it. *very tired tonight* Hint plz

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

*suppresses rage*

fine if you WANT to get lynched and be emo instead of helping the town and youre BOUND and DETERMINED to do so despite my attempts to save you, go the fuck ahead. I give up on saving you.

unvote
no vote

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

im not going to respond until i have cooled down cus right now, strager, your impossible "logic" is pissing me off SO much. This game has ceased to be fun for me when everyone instantly objects to every action i make. I thought my logic was clear-cut but you don't seem to be understanding it despite every attempt on my part to educate you. im completely sick of your idiocy.

maybe im overreacting a bit but i feel like im getting attacked every time i try to help. This is a game, not a war zone. I'll try again tomorrow i guess and see if things have improved then.

strager wrote:

Derekku Chan wrote:

=( It's late and you guys are making fun of me. D:

EDIT: Yeah, I'm not seeing it. *very tired tonight* Hint plz

Read what I quoted from you carefully, and read my response.

strager wrote:

strager wrote:

Echo: SFG
0_o: -
0_o: SFG
0_o: -
Echo: -

Hmm.

nardi11011 wrote:

One thing I don't get: why did strager reveal his role instead of just saying "I was looking at the PM in the OP and was just wondering"?

0_o wrote:

strager wrote:

strager wrote:

Echo: SFG
0_o: -
0_o: SFG
0_o: -
Echo: -

Hmm.

I don't know what you are trying to get at here, but these votes were cast for kuwarudo because he was being annoying. I retracted my vote when he claimed townie right before quitting, and Echo retracted his in his next post for the obvious reason that he was replaced by someone who DOESN'T annoy him.
This really should have been obvious...

strager wrote:

Anyway I read somewhere that if the Town doesn't choose to lynch on the first game in a nine-player game with one Mafia the Town gets a statistical advantage, assuming completely random lynching and killing. I'll calculate how this would work with the current setup later.

strager wrote:

with one Mafia

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

strager wrote:

Anyway I read somewhere that if the Town doesn't choose to lynch on the first game in a nine-player game with one Mafia the Town gets a statistical advantage, assuming completely random lynching and killing. I'll calculate how this would work with the current setup later.

strager wrote:

with one Mafia

read the OP again. There are two Mafia.

strager wrote:

Anyway I read somewhere that if the Town doesn't choose to lynch on the first game in a nine-player game with one Mafia the Town gets a statistical advantage, assuming completely random lynching and killing. I'll calculate how this would work with the current setup later.