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Newbie Mafia 2! [Mafia Win!]

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anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

Echo wrote:

0_o wrote:

Well I said before that I was thinking either you or nardi, and from the general feel of your posts I just started to lean towards you. It's the first day and there isn't a lot of evidence from anyone to go on, so for today I'm just playing by my gut
lol?
I agree that bolded part is quite suspicious...

----------

BagelBob wrote:

strager wrote:

By the "defense" I meant Echo accusing me of using my role claim as a Doctor to defend myself. I didn't mean defending myself against his arguments.
This confuses me so much, I'll probably end up dropping it unless I can make sense of it when I wake up.
To clarify:

I asked why someone would try to lynch a Doctor if they were of the Town.
Echo questioned why I was being so defensive.
I stated I was not defending myself. I was just asking a question.
Echo stated:

Echo wrote:

First, you claim an important role. Then you make a post saying that people shouldn't be voting for someone who claims a role. How is that not defending yourself!?
I then I responded:

strager wrote:

Saying I am defending myself (however implicitly) is baseless. So I'll completely disregard your attacks on my defense.
The "claiming Doctor to defend myself" is what I meant by "defending myself" there, and that's what I tried explaining in the post you quoted.

----------

strager wrote:

I don't know where you got the idea that I think having the doktor role-claim on the first day is a good idea. I distinctly remember saying "I dislike role claims", and you first quoting me about it, then doing an analysis earlier.
I was responding to this:

BagelBob wrote:

Oh, and I have to disagree with you on that matter. A fake-claim by a town could work out nicely. I certainly don't think that's what's happening here, but I could see it working.
I was working off that the 'could' is 'would' in the hypothetical situation.

----------

strager wrote:

Seriously, short term- Hey look, a butterfly!
ohi adam! <3

----------

BagelBob wrote:

strager wrote:

Echo seems to be super defensive of adam in his latest next-to-latest post. Why? I'm not pointing my finger at him.
I re-read that post and I don't think Echo is being even slightly defensive of adam.
In fact, he says specifically "None of adam's posts in any way indicate that he is townie"
I don't know how you came up with this, would you care to explain?
Mainly in response to this:

Echo wrote:

None of adam's posts in any way indicate that he is townie, and no one should be able to confirm this. Yet strager claims to believe, and has managed to convince himself, that adam is townie. I suspect this is because strager is mafia and knows that adam is townie.
He claims no one should know anything, yet says I do know something. Also, I haven't "confirmed" this -- confirmation requires more information, not a reiteration of the same information.

----------

BagelBob wrote:

I still consider strager my major suspect at the moment, and I don't see the reasons why Echo is backing off.
Maybe because Derekku voted for him and is being more cautious now?

----------

BagelBob wrote:

However, I think we still have ~6 days left to decide things, so I'm not ready to lynch him yet. I'd really like to hear a bit more from SFG(with her amazing 1 post), Olinad(with double that), and nardii(with a record 3) before doing anything that can't be reversed.
Quite.
adam2046
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Joined April 2008
adam2046

strager wrote:

strager wrote:

Seriously, short term- Hey look, a butterfly!
ohi adam! <3
Double wrong...
anonymous_old
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Derekku
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0_o
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0_o
For the record, I meant evidence for anyone besides strager and Echo, who obviously have been the centre of attention this entire thread :P And you already know my opinions of them, so...
Yuukari-Banteki
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Yuukari-Banteki
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anonymous_old
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anonymous_old
Quick response post:

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

On to my analysis of strager. he's obviously a noob, its hard to tell if his "claim" was actually intentional or not so im going to say...strager if you fully intended to claim the role of doctor when you supposedly did, please do so in bold in your next post.
I did not intend to claim myself as Doctor. I just did it because Echo forced me to.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

As for his repeated mistakes
I think almost all my mistakes have been me either mistyping or miswriting what I meant (which I clarified shortly thereafter).

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

The relative numbers of slip-ups made in the first game are pretty reasonably proportional to how intelligent the player is outside of the game, and strager's slips are out-of-proportion unless he has a serious mental disability that he's been hiding (take it as a compliment, strager, i think you're intelligent).
Are you suggesting more slip-ups mean someone is less intelligent? And how are my slips "out-of-proportion"? Please point them out (I would like to know).

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

However if Echo is mafia than strager is not mafia, and vice versa, because both are intelligent and no intelligent mafia team would attack each other like that.
That supports my strong belief that Echo is a Mafia.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

0_o is doing a beautiful job of defending strager. there are really three possibilities. 1. strager and 0_o are both mafia - if Echo is mafia this is completely invalid. If Echo is town, either 0_o and strager are misled citizens or mafia. 2. strager is mafia and 0_o is a misled citizen. 3. strager and 0_o are both citizens.
based on tone, im guessing that 0_o is a citizen, but that doesnt give me any help at all as to identifying strager.
As I have said, I really don't know what to think of 0_o and I don't know what he's up to (if anything).
Yuukari-Banteki
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Yuukari-Banteki
*moan* dont make me go through twelve pages of combination trash and wall of text to look for examples of where you messed up, strager. Echo pointed them all out already in his nitpicking

also since strager no longer has the appearance of claiming doctor, which was what was stopping me from voting against him before. this is also making me begin to doubt Echo's skill at this game, but meh.

unvote
vote strager
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

also since strager no longer has the appearance of claiming doctor, which was what was stopping me from voting against him before. this is also making me begin to doubt Echo's skill at this game, but meh.

unvote
vote strager
Eek!

I meant I didn't mean to spill the beans! I thought that's what you were asking. I didn't mean I wasn't "unclaiming" myself as Doctor.
nardii
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nardii
I'm not sure what to think of the current situation.

(posting because strager thinks i should)
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

nardi11011 wrote:

I'm not sure what to think of the current situation.
Think anyway.
Yuukari-Banteki
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Yuukari-Banteki

strager wrote:

Eek!

I meant I didn't mean to spill the beans! I thought that's what you were asking. I didn't mean I wasn't "unclaiming" myself as Doctor.
so you confirm that you are a Doctor then? ugh i dont know which direction to go now. despite all my logic my gut instinct is still to trust Echo on these things.....but one of the things Echo said is that you should never lynch someone who claims Doctor on day 1. im pretty sure 0_o is a civvy and for above reason i cant vote for either strager or Echo.

unvotei will edit with my vote later once i reread all posts not belonging to the three aforementioned people.


vote adam because of the 25% of posts that dont belong to me, kuu, Subi, or the three people im disregarding, he is the most annoying and suspicious, although i hardly feel comfortable voting against him i feel its safer than lynching Echo or strager and most likely otherwise to be mafia
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old
Page 13 get.
Post 181 get.
BagelBob_old
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BagelBob_old

strager wrote:

strager wrote:

I don't know where you got the idea that I think having the doktor role-claim on the first day is a good idea. I distinctly remember saying "I dislike role claims", and you first quoting me about it, then doing an analysis earlier.
I was responding to this:

BagelBob wrote:

Oh, and I have to disagree with you on that matter. A fake-claim by a town could work out nicely. I certainly don't think that's what's happening here, but I could see it working.
I was working off that the 'could' is 'would' in the hypothetical situation.
This, along with

strager wrote:

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

also since strager no longer has the appearance of claiming doctor, which was what was stopping me from voting against him before. this is also making me begin to doubt Echo's skill at this game, but meh.

unvote
vote strager
Eek!

I meant I didn't mean to spill the beans! I thought that's what you were asking. I didn't mean I wasn't "unclaiming" myself as Doctor.
this, makes it sound like you're trying to back out of your doctor claim now. You didn't mean to spill the beans about not being the doctor? Double negative meaning that you are trying to un-claim yourself as the doctor? You've been being very vague from the beginning.

Also, I've failed to see your case on Echo. So far, the only reason I can come up with for your vote is that he was making a case on you. Could you give anything more than that?
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

BagelBob wrote:

strager wrote:

strager wrote:

I don't know where you got the idea that I think having the doktor role-claim on the first day is a good idea. I distinctly remember saying "I dislike role claims", and you first quoting me about it, then doing an analysis earlier.
I was responding to this:

BagelBob wrote:

Oh, and I have to disagree with you on that matter. A fake-claim by a town could work out nicely. I certainly don't think that's what's happening here, but I could see it working.
I was working off that the 'could' is 'would' in the hypothetical situation.
I don't know how to explain this better. =S

BagelBob wrote:

strager wrote:

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

also since strager no longer has the appearance of claiming doctor, which was what was stopping me from voting against him before. this is also making me begin to doubt Echo's skill at this game, but meh.

unvote
vote strager
Eek!

I meant I didn't mean to spill the beans! I thought that's what you were asking. I didn't mean I wasn't "unclaiming" myself as Doctor.
this, makes it sound like you're trying to back out of your doctor claim now. You didn't mean to spill the beans about not being the doctor? Double negative meaning that you are trying to un-claim yourself as the doctor? You've been being very vague from the beginning.
Okay, let me (try to) clarify.

Claiming Doctor was a slip. I didn't intend for it to happen, and I didn't intend to claim Doctor. But it happened and that's what I meant. I wasn't trying to bring about a double negative by "spilling the beans" about me "unclaiming" myself as Doctor (unless I misunderstand where you're getting the double negative from?).

BagelBob wrote:

Also, I've failed to see your case on Echo. So far, the only reason I can come up with for your vote is that he was making a case on you. Could you give anything more than that?
Obviously, because almost all of what Echo has been doing is "making a case on me." There's nothing else to go on from him, really.
Echo
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S: Indeed, which makes adam somewhat suspect because he is voting for me. Then again, if he were the Mafia, he'd kill me anyway. So I think it's safe to say ... he is not. That is, I am clearing adam's name as a suspect Mafia for me.
E: adam's done absolutely nothing to convince anyone that he's not mafia.
S: I never said I was convinced he wasn't Mafia. I'm just saying for today I won't consider him a possible target.
E: [quoting first line] Read that and tell me you never said you weren't convinced.
S: I meant to say I wasn't convinced by someone else. Sorry.
E: So you admit that you convinced yourself adam is townie?
S: You're attacking. Am I supposed to just take that? Okay, I will.
That is basically the exchange that went on. Every line is a direct quote from chronological posts in this thread.

btw - strager, can you claim doctor in bold without using a negative sentence construct? Something like "claim: doctor"

strager wrote:

D= I didn't mean to.

strager wrote:

I did not intend to claim myself as Doctor.
I'll stop hammering strager.
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

Echo wrote:

btw - strager, can you claim doctor in bold without using a negative sentence construct? Something like "claim: doctor"

strager wrote:

D= I didn't mean to.

strager wrote:

I did not intend to claim myself as Doctor.
Claim: Doctor.

Hopefully that clears things up.
Derekku
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Echo
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edit: thanks strager
Onto SFG's post...

SFG wrote:

If i assume he's mafia, he would be trying to kill strager because strager "claimed" doctor.
Wrong - if I was mafia, then, as you noted, I was the only person who suggested he accidentally leaked the fact that he was doctor. In which case, I would not bring it up, kill him at night, and leave the whole town wondering why the mafia killed him the next day.

SFG wrote:

Echo: explain why you spent so much time pointing out strager's claim if the claim appears to have been invisible to nearly everyone else and you specifically did not want it to have happened.
Obviously, I don't want the identity of the doctor leaked. I actually did expect strager to deny doctor but instead he said he didn't mean to leak his role. However, theoretically speaking the real doctor has nothing to gain by repeated affirming the fact that he was doctor since he can't protect himself, making revealing his role a really stupid thing to do, which is what makes me extremely suspicious of him.

The main reason for hammering strager, however, is because of the exchange which I've condensed into the first quote in my last post.

edit2: NOTE: this is not exactly an attack against strager, but I'm just explaining to SFG my thought processes. I don't expect you (strager) to reply to this, although you're completely free to.
anonymous_old
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Yuukari-Banteki
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Yuukari-Banteki

Echo wrote:

SFG wrote:

If i assume he's mafia, he would be trying to kill strager because strager "claimed" doctor.
Wrong - if I was mafia, then, as you noted, I was the only person who suggested he accidentally leaked the fact that he was doctor. In which case, I would not bring it up, kill him at night, and leave the whole town wondering why the mafia killed him the next day.

and once again Echo can come up with more devious strategies than i could in my normal mind imagine. Echo is way too pro for this.

._. hopefully he won't die on Day 1 this time cus last time i tried leading the town against the mafia in his stead we all died lol. Although i still hold my vote b/c don't want to risk lynching the doctor if he is real. I'm also really hoping im right to trust Echo here...
anonymous_old
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Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Echo wrote:

SFG wrote:

If i assume he's mafia, he would be trying to kill strager because strager "claimed" doctor.
Wrong - if I was mafia, then, as you noted, I was the only person who suggested he accidentally leaked the fact that he was doctor. In which case, I would not bring it up, kill him at night, and leave the whole town wondering why the mafia killed him the next day.

and once again Echo can come up with more devious strategies than i could in my normal mind imagine. Echo is way too pro for this.
You're right. You may have been deceived right there.
Echo
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anonymous_old
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Echo wrote:

I asked the same question again in this post to which you requoted the same thing. I don't see how it's out of context.
Oops; when I read that I thought you were quoting your entire post, not part of it.
Echo
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I was quoting the whole post, which you admit applying your reply to. You refused to answer/comment on my statements/questions, one of which was the conversation in the quoted text. Since it applied to all my questions/statements, I don't think it's out of context?
adam2046
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adam2046
So uh...Why am I being voted if you want to lynch Echo or strager?
Can I have some follow up points on how I'm suspicious?
Derekku
COOL DUDE
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Derekku
Ugh. I kept getting distracted by other things. >_<

But for now, I at least want to do this. (forgot to yesterday)

Unvote Echo.
anonymous_old
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Echo wrote:

I was quoting the whole post, which you admit applying your reply to. You refused to answer/comment on my statements/questions, one of which was the conversation in the quoted text. Since it applied to all my questions/statements, I don't think it's out of context?
Okay, I made a mistake in my last post.

When you wrote this post (link) I thought you had quoted this post (link), which what I originally refused to answer in this post (link). I don't think I even saw this post (link), so I gues I'll reply here:

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

dammit WHY do the doctors always need to expose themselves on the first day?
D= I didn't mean to.
Firstly, strager never claimed doctor. He just went with what I said. The real doctor would have tried to cover it up. strager, on the other hand, admitted it straight away.
I would only try to cover it up to prevent myself from being killed by the Mafia during the Night. If I do that I may be suspect of being a Mafia by the town, because I am trying to cover up things I have said. Then again, keeping open about me being a Doctor also makes me a Mafia suspect because I'd be using it as a way to point votes away from me.

Again, claiming was a mistake, but the damage has been done.

Echo wrote:

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

I meant to say I wasn't convinced by someone else. Sorry.
So you admit that you convinced yourself adam is townie? My point still stands - you can't convince yourself someone is townie when they haven't made a single proper post unless you already know they're townie.
Secondly, he admitted to convincing himself adam is townie without adam making any real posts. Plus, he completely ignored this accusation in his last post.
I think we've already gone over this. (If not I am mistaken.)

Echo wrote:

0_o wrote:

And how exactly does mentioning the cop imply that he's claiming cop??
The cop role shouldn't be on your mind, since he's useless until after the first night. Therefore, mentioning it is a tad suspicious. Why would strager be thinking about the cop, then?
I can't find my post but I'm pretty fucking sure I wrote a post answering this question.

Oh here it is, I think (link).
Yuukari-Banteki
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Yuukari-Banteki

adam2046 wrote:

So uh...Why am I being voted if you want to lynch Echo or strager?
Can I have some follow up points on how I'm suspicious?

youre not, youre being voted on because i DON'T want to lynch Echo or strager. tbh its as close to a random vote as it gets, but a couple of people pointed fingers at you and that was the closest to a lead i got so yeah.
Olinad
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Olinad
OMG I think I lost track of the voting situation -.-' May anyone post the list of the votes made up to now? I read the discussion but I don't want to make a vote without knowing the situation
LadySuburu
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Olinad
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LadySuburu wrote:

Votecount 3:

strager - 2 (adam, nardi)
adam - 2 (0_o, SFG)
Echo - 1 (strager)
SFG - 1 (BagelBob)




Not voting: 3 - (Olinad, Echo, Derekku)
thx, brb
Echo
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Echo wrote:

tbh if strager had said something like "I'm just curious to know about the rules around the doctor and how protection works" I wouldn't have had anything to go on, since that would only lead to WIFOM thinking.
Well, I don't ask questions like that, really. I try to be a little more specific in my questions than "how does the Doctor work exactly?" If I had asked the question you suggest I would probably get an answer similar to what the PM states and not what I wanted to know. But you're right, the "claim" wouldn't be discovered and maybe I would have been better protected (because I don't have to worry about the Mafia trying to kill me because they don't know I am the doctor).

Olinard, are you back yet? It's been more than two hours since you said "brb." ;P

EDIT: Echo, what is WIFOM thinking? xD Sounds like "superhypothetical" thinking.
Echo
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http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... ront_Of_Me

I thought I'd linked that before :/

Basically it's what you do in your early posts.

"if adam was mafia then [something] BUT if adam is townie then [something] which means he must be mafia if he did it but then that makes him townie because he's smart enough to know it makes him look townie, which means he's actualy mafia, which makes him townie, which makes him mafia etc."
Olinad
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strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

tbh if strager had said something like "I'm just curious to know about the rules around the doctor and how protection works" I wouldn't have had anything to go on, since that would only lead to WIFOM thinking.
Well, I don't ask questions like that, really. I try to be a little more specific in my questions than "how does the Doctor work exactly?" If I had asked the question you suggest I would probably get an answer similar to what the PM states and not what I wanted to know. But you're right, the "claim" wouldn't be discovered and maybe I would have been better protected (because I don't have to worry about the Mafia trying to kill me because they don't know I am the doctor).

Olinard, are you back yet? It's been more than two hours since you said "brb." ;P

EDIT: Echo, what is WIFOM thinking? xD Sounds like "superhypothetical" thinking.
lol UR right, but I was busy XD

I really dunno who to vote... mmh...
anonymous_old
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Echo wrote:

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wine_In_Front_Of_Me

I thought I'd linked that before :/

Basically it's what you do in your early posts.

"if adam was mafia then [something] BUT if adam is townie then [something] which means he must be mafia if he did it but then that makes him townie because he's smart enough to know it makes him look townie, which means he's actualy mafia, which makes him townie, which makes him mafia etc."
By "you" you mean the not me "you"?

And thanks.

/me stabs Olinad into voting.
Echo
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By "you" I mean the second person pronoun (ie. you, strager), and not the generic "you"
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Echo wrote:

By "you" I mean the second person pronoun (ie. you, strager), and not the generic "you"
Article says:

Article wrote:

In Mafia, WIFOM arguments are often a Scum tactic used to distract the Town.
No wonder you were super-suspicious of me. =S However that paragraph talks about after a Night kill so I'm not sure if that really is your reason or if you just don't like my choices about adam.

Then again I pointed out some circular reasoning in your own argument and you didn't comment on it.
adam2046
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adam2046
...Why aren't you voting yourself then SFG?
anonymous_old
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adam2046 wrote:

...Why aren't you voting yourself then SFG?
Or just leave a no-vote?

You don't have to vote do you?
Yuukari-Banteki
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adam2046
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adam2046
So you do want to get me lynched?
You are still mad at me.
anonymous_old
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adam2046 wrote:

So you do want to get me lynched?
You are still mad at me.
Yeah, SFG seems to be doing more than random voting here.
adam2046
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adam2046
Don't you try and allay (^_~) suspicion from yourself by pointing out her.
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adam2046 wrote:

I wont be arounf for a little while, if anyone wants to lynch poor little defensless me (SFG) please don't.
You'll make me cryyyyyy T.T

adam2046 wrote:

Don't you try and allay (^_~) suspicion from yourself by pointing out her.
wat
Yuukari-Banteki
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Yuukari-Banteki
well i suppose i am a bit suspicious because when you were mafia last game i couldnt tell that you were at ALL. i think it might have been nardi that pointed a FOS at adam or maybe the FOS wa-oh fuck it let me go find the post

yeah 0_o pointed a FOS at adam and nardi and i chose adam.

also im lol'ing about how you guys are trying to pick apart logic that doesn't exist @_@ also im sick of vote-hopping which is why i havent changed it
adam2046
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adam2046
Hey, I'm not the one claiming doctor.
Yuukari-Banteki
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Yuukari-Banteki
were you not listening when i said that the reason i dont want strager lynched is that B/C HE CLAIMED DOCTOR i dont want to risk lynching an aux on day 1
adam2046
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adam2046
That was @ strager not you, you ninja'd me.
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adam2046 wrote:

Hey, I'm not the one claiming doctor.

adam2046 wrote:

Don't you try and allay (^_~) suspicion from yourself by pointing out her.
wat

EDIT: Ignore this (see adam's last post =X).
adam2046
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adam2046
I don't get it...
Echo
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anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

adam2046 wrote:

I don't get it...

Echo wrote:

Neither do I.

revote strager
Are you two referring to my wat post? If so I'll explain.

First he says "don't kill me, SFG" (in more words) then accuses me of "pointing out her" as a way to "allay suspicion from me." That is, he did what he told me not to do.

The second wat post was a mistake; I was being stupid then. xD
adam2046
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adam2046
Ok, you can kill me now (no don't) didn't take as long as I expected.
Yuukari-Banteki
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Yuukari-Banteki
Echo, why are you voting for strager after specifically stating that Day 1 was a bad time to lynch an important aux claim?
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Echo, why are you voting for strager after specifically stating that Day 1 was a bad time to lynch an important aux claim?
Read part one of my monster post (link).
Yuukari-Banteki
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Yuukari-Banteki
no, i get that he suspects that you arent doctor but not why hes violating a "basic principle" he set out in a different mafia game. THAT is what i want him to explain.
adam2046
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adam2046
In my mind all Echo was really doing was hinting to to strager that if he was the real doctor he should unclaim or not claim at all, because strager has continued I think Echo may have come to the conclusion that strager is a wolf.

...At least that's my analysis of the situation.
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

adam2046 wrote:

In my mind all Echo was really doing was hinting to to strager that if he was the real doctor he should unclaim or not claim at all, because strager has continued I think Echo may have come to the conclusion that strager is a wolf.

...At least that's my analysis of the situation.
I didn't get that at all from Echo. =X

But the deed is done and I'm not going back on my word.
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old
I have these suspicion percentages (0 - definitely Townie; 100 - definitely Mafia; 50 - undecided):
adam - 40%
BagelBob - 40%
nadi - 40%
SFG - 40%
Olinad - 50%
Derekku - 60%
0_o - 65%
Echo - 100%

These are estimates of course but shows my relative suspicions for everyone.

Yes, I am 100% sure Echo is a Mafia.
0_o
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0_o
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Echo
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Echo

strager wrote:

These are estimates of course but shows my relative suspicions for everyone.
So everyone is 40% mafia.

strager wrote:

Yes, I am 100% sure Echo is a Mafia.
Lynch me~!

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Echo, why are you voting for strager after specifically stating that Day 1 was a bad time to lynch an important aux claim?
Basically what adam said - I'm pretty sure that strager is not doctor, which is why I'm voting him.
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

0_o wrote:

OK, could you PLEASE explain why I am the second most suspicious person for BELIEVING and DEFENDING you? It seems like if you were the doctor then you wouldn't find me wanting to keep you alive so much suspicious...
Right. =X

But that doesn't matter now because I'm more concerned about getting a known Mafia lynched.

My opinions will likely change as more things come about.

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

These are estimates of course but shows my relative suspicions for everyone.
So everyone is 40% mafia.
What?

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

Yes, I am 100% sure Echo is a Mafia.
Lynch me~!
I'll ignore that, just as I ignored adam's.

Echo wrote:

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Echo, why are you voting for strager after specifically stating that Day 1 was a bad time to lynch an important aux claim?
Basically what adam said - I'm pretty sure that strager is not doctor, which is why I'm voting him.
But you have to assume I am a Mafia otherwise you'd be killing a Townie. (Just to mention.)
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old
I have decided to do something I said I wouldn't do.

Unvote
Echo
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Echo

strager wrote:

But you have to assume I am a Mafia otherwise you'd be killing a Townie. (Just to mention.)
More backwards trickiness from strager.

My thinking leads me to believe you're mafia which THEN results in my lynch vote.

You're saying I'm voting to lynch you which THEN makes me try to push the idea you're mafia? o.O
Derekku
COOL DUDE
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Derekku
WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM

*head is spinning*
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old
Actually when proofreading this I noticed you may have gotten me wrong on the sequence of events.

Actually when proofreading this I noticed I was compeletely misunderstanding your statement.

Actually I think I'll just remove that part about me trying to make you understand based of my own misunderstandings of what you misunderstand.

ANYWAY, it's gone now and here's what I really need to say.

Echo wrote:

My thinking leads me to believe you're mafia which THEN results in my lynch vote.

You're saying I'm voting to lynch you which THEN makes me try to push the idea you're mafia? o.O
No I'm not saying that. I meant that your statement:

Echo wrote:

I'm pretty sure that strager is not doctor, which is why I'm voting him.
Meant "I'm pretty sure strager is a Mafia, which is why I'm voting for him."

----------

I realized now that when I had four players voting for me, no one jumped on the bandwagon for the lynch. This means one of these:

Both Mafia were on the bandwagon already.
I am a Mafia and the other Mafia may or may not have been on the bandwagon. If he was, he would have certainly jumped off at L-1 and probably at L-2.
One or no Mafia were on the bandwagon and the remaining Mafia could not vote to lynch in time.

I am of course striking off the second and am thinking the first is more likely than the third.
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

Derekku Chan wrote:

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM

*head is spinning*
I like it when I run unicow's puffy balls all over my face.
Derekku
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Derekku

strager wrote:

Derekku Chan wrote:

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM

*head is spinning*
I like it when I run unicow's puffy balls all over my face.
I bet you do. :> Also you said this 25 minutes too early. I JUST got to that part. XP

[/offtopic]
anonymous_old
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adam2046
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adam2046
ok...
So strager you're almost certain I'm human, so you stuck me at 40% with BagelBob?
Echo
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anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

adam2046 wrote:

ok...
So strager you're almost certain I'm human, so you stuck me at 40% with BagelBob?
It was more of a relative scale than an absolute scale. 40% is more like, "meh, he's acting more of a Townie than a Mafia."

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

I realized now that when I had four players voting for me, no one jumped on the bandwagon for the lynch. This means one of these:

Both Mafia were on the bandwagon already.
I am a Mafia and the other Mafia may or may not have been on the bandwagon. If he was, he would have certainly jumped off at L-1 and probably at L-2.
One or no Mafia were on the bandwagon and the remaining Mafia could not vote to lynch in time.

I am of course striking off the second and am thinking the first is more likely than the third.
I never ever get the point of listing out all the possibilities. Well of course it's one of the three.

Now, if you list only two out of three, for example, and say why the third can't be possible, with evidence, then that's a totally different story.
I'm basically thinking aloud and leaving only the first and third option open. (It was also like 03:19 so I was pretty wonky then.)

In the first case I deduce one of these to be a Mafia: adam, SFG, nardi
In the third case I deduce these are probably NOT Mafia (because they didn't jump on the bandwagon): Derekku, 0_o

For the first case it seems as if adam's vote was random and SFG's vote was only somewhat random, as was nardi's. So my suspicions for the latter two are above my suspicions for adam. From that I really can't say much more though.

For the third case, 0_o seems to be really trying to defend me which either means he's deceitful (and will kill me at night) or genuinely trying to help the town. I'm not foolish enough to denounce the former but based on my observation above he may be a Townie more than a Mafia.
I really don't know what to think of Derekku because he hasn't been doing much from what I can see, really. He could be bad at analysis, not have information to discuss, or is smart enough not to talk because he may leak information. So ... not really sure.

Interestingly this is almost opposite of my previous suspicion list. I believe my thinking then was leaning toward the third case but I didn't reference posts or anything when I wrote it, so it was purely out of feeling.

So I don't know what I should believe. My gut, or my reasoning? Probably my reasoning. (My gut feelings seem to have gotten me burned before, a la Echo's hate of my adam-is-a-Townie conclusion.)
Echo
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Echo

strager wrote:

For the first case it seems as if adam's vote was random
Where does it seem random?

strager wrote:

and SFG's vote was only somewhat random
Where does it seem random?

strager wrote:

as was nardi's.
Where does it seem random?

strager wrote:

0_o seems to be really trying to defend me which either means he's deceitful
Where does it seem deceitful?

strager wrote:

or genuinely trying to help the town.
Where does he seem helpful?

strager wrote:

Probably my reasoning.
The problem, as you adequately put it, is that you "didn't reference posts or anything when I wrote it, so it was purely out of feeling." Feelings can't prove anything.
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

For the first case it seems as if adam's vote was random
Where does it seem random?

strager wrote:

and SFG's vote was only somewhat random
Where does it seem random?

strager wrote:

as was nardi's.
Where does it seem random?
"I'll just vote for whoever seems the most suspicious without any evidence."

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

0_o seems to be really trying to defend me which either means he's deceitful
Where does it seem deceitful?
Get on my good side then eventually kill me at night.

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

or genuinely trying to help the town.
Where does he seem helpful?
Defend the Doctor.

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

Probably my reasoning.
The problem, as you adequately put it, is that you "didn't reference posts or anything when I wrote it, so it was purely out of feeling." Feelings can't prove anything.
You're supporting what I said about the random votes.

And yes, I do realize I made a mistake in posting that list. Now I posted a pseudolist with some reasoning.
LadySuburu
80 posts
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Topic Starter
LadySuburu
Votecount 4:

strager - 3 (adam, nardi, Echo)
adam - 2 (0_o, SFG)
SFG - 1 (BagelBob)

Not voting: 3 - (Olinad, Derekku, Strager)
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
*sigh*

I'm starting to tldr this Echo-strager exchange, it just keeps going and circles and it just feels like it isn't getting anywhere.

Can the people who have not voted please hurry up and make a decision, this is just getting ridiculous...

Sorry if I sound impatient, but honestly, I am :P
BagelBob_old
0 posts
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BagelBob_old

strager wrote:

I have these suspicion percentages (0 - definitely Townie; 100 - definitely Mafia; 50 - undecided):
adam - 40%
BagelBob - 40%
nadi - 40%
SFG - 40%
Olinad - 50%
Derekku - 60%
0_o - 65%
Echo - 100%

These are estimates of course but shows my relative suspicions for everyone.

Yes, I am 100% sure Echo is a Mafia.
All of this is completely baseless. Could you provide any reasoning at all for these numbers? I realize you say later that you changed your mind, but at this time, what made you choose these numbers? Do you have any reasons for Echo being 100% mafia? Why are Derekku and 0_o above 50? Why are the rest of us above 50?



This post is full of nothings. First, you say you come to two realizations. Then, you don't post them, and say you'll remove them from your post. Next, you quote Echo and restate his post. In your last section, you present a logical fallacy known as false dichotomy. Those are not the only options, there could have been one voting for you and mafia could have any reasons for voting or not voting for you. With this and all your short posts, it's like your posting without saying anything.



Can I assume from This post that you no longer consider Echo a mafia member? In addition, did you mean that adam, SFG, and nardii's votes looked like bandwagon votes? You state that you think 0_o and Derekuu were not on the bandwagon, but then you throw junk about random voting. Adam's vote started out random, but he kept posting and saying that he was reading the thread and agreed with Echo's logic.
BagelBob_old
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BagelBob_old
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adam2046
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adam2046
SFG is not voting me because of 0_o, I do not find it said anywhere.
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

BagelBob wrote:

strager wrote:

I have these suspicion percentages (0 - definitely Townie; 100 - definitely Mafia; 50 - undecided):
adam - 40%
BagelBob - 40%
nadi - 40%
SFG - 40%
Olinad - 50%
Derekku - 60%
0_o - 65%
Echo - 100%

These are estimates of course but shows my relative suspicions for everyone.

Yes, I am 100% sure Echo is a Mafia.
All of this is completely baseless. Could you provide any reasoning at all for these numbers? I realize you say later that you changed your mind, but at this time, what made you choose these numbers? Do you have any reasons for Echo being 100% mafia? Why are Derekku and 0_o above 50? Why are the rest of us above 50?
The numbers were just to state relative suspicions. nardi is less suspicious than 0_o, for example. I used numbers instead of a simple list to group similarly suspicious people together (the 40%'s) and to point out Echo as a Mafia more than just "most suspicious." Again, looking back it was a pretty dumb thing to do.

BagelBob wrote:

Do you have any reasons for Echo being 100% mafia?
See my pseudo-raging (link).

BagelBob wrote:

This post is full of nothings. First, you say you come to two realizations. Then, you don't post them, and say you'll remove them from your post.
Actually those first three lines were saying "I totally misread your post so I deleted what I had here before." I thought he was asking me how he voted for me, which kinda confused me so I came back to it later then realized what he meant.

I could have left those three lines out, but it was so late I wasn't thinking too strait (see all my late-night posts). I should stop posting so late. x_x

BagelBob wrote:

Next, you quote Echo and restate his post.
Yes, I was explaining why I said something, because Echo asked for an explanation (Echo's quote expanded for clarification):

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

But you have to assume I am a Mafia otherwise you'd be killing a Townie. (Just to mention.)
More backwards trickiness from strager.

My thinking leads me to believe you're mafia which THEN results in my lynch vote.

You're saying I'm voting to lynch you which THEN makes me try to push the idea you're mafia? o.O
No I'm not saying that. I meant that your statement:

Echo wrote:

I'm pretty sure that strager is not doctor, which is why I'm voting him.
Meant "I'm pretty sure strager is a Mafia, which is why I'm voting for him."

BagelBob wrote:

In your last section, you present a logical fallacy known as false dichotomy. Those are not the only options, there could have been one voting for you and mafia could have any reasons for voting or not voting for you. With this and all your short posts, it's like your posting without saying anything.
Ah, I had not even considered this. I would expect the Mafia to try and kill a Townie as soon as the chance arises. I don't see a reason why they wouldn't so it'd be nice if you could point at least one out.

BagelBob wrote:

Can I assume from This post that you no longer consider Echo a mafia member?
No, I already deduced Echo as a Mafia so you can squeeze that info in there if you want.

BagelBob wrote:

In addition, did you mean that adam, SFG, and nardii's votes looked like bandwagon votes?
All I meant to say there that one or two of adam, Echo, nardi, and SFG were bandwagonning as a Mafia, not all of them.

BagelBob wrote:

You state that you think 0_o and Derekuu were not on the bandwagon, but then you throw junk about random voting.
Where is this "junk about random voting?"

BagelBob wrote:

Adam's vote started out random, but he kept posting and saying that he was reading the thread and agreed with Echo's logic.
And this matters how? I already know this.

BagelBob wrote:

SFG, you've said you're going with adam since 0_o said he finds him suspicious. All I can find is that his gut says that. Are you satisfied lynching someone who you think is a townie?
I have to agree here; it's as if you're voting at random with "support" from another player. The number of votes on one's head shouldn't be used as a reason for voting.

EDIT:

adam2046 wrote:

SFG is not voting me because of 0_o, I do not find it said anywhere.
I just went with BagelBob on the above. I'll investigate myself.

EDIT: Here it is (link), at least what I think BagelBob is referring to.
BagelBob_old
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BagelBob_old

adam2046 wrote:

SFG is not voting me because of 0_o, I do not find it said anywhere.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

well i suppose i am a bit suspicious because when you were mafia last game i couldnt tell that you were at ALL. i think it might have been nardi that pointed a FOS at adam or maybe the FOS wa-oh fuck it let me go find the post

yeah 0_o pointed a FOS at adam and nardi and i chose adam.

also im lol'ing about how you guys are trying to pick apart logic that doesn't exist @_@ also im sick of vote-hopping which is why i havent changed it
kthx

EDIT: Didn't see page 18, looks like strager caught it
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

LadySuburu wrote:

Not voting: 3 - (Olinad, Derekku, Strager)
*strager
adam2046
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adam2046
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0_o
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0_o
tldr in bold, but it'd be nice if you read the details as well :P

Bagelbob wrote:

0_o, why are you in such a hurry? Is it because you were buddying with strager earlier?
Not sure how me being impatient and me defending strager are correlated...
And to answer your question I'm impatient because I've been sitting here reading Echo and strager go back and forth with loooong arguments for days and I feel like there hasn't been any progress. I'm getting bored; I just want to get the game moving.
You haven't posted much in the way of cases. In fact, your reason for voting adam, is it still your gut?
Now that WWG3 is over I can actually say this: IMO he's been acting similar to when he was in WWG3, and I knew he was a wolf then because I was a wolf myself ;)
Though now that I think about it, you could probably use the exact same logic against me... lol, well then :P
Oh well, I'm not confident enough to vote for Echo, and I feel like I don't have a case against anyone else, so yes, right now I guess it's mainly just my gut instincts against adam ^_^ if someone else happens to jump my radar then I will gladly change my vote, but right now he's just the only person I feel comfortable with voting for.
I'd like it if you could state your opinions on strager. Do you think that he is telling the truth about being the doctor?
Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure almost every post I've made so far has said my opinion on strager :P He isn't a zero on my suspicion-o-meter that's for sure, but I think the odds of him being the doctor are worth keeping him around at least for today.
If yes, do you think Echo is a mafia member?.
I can't say for sure he isn't mafia, but I feel like our differing opinions are based mainly on different interpretations of strager's posts, and again, I'm not gonna vote for someone just because they have a different opinion than me.
it looks to me like you're trying to stay out of the whole mess
I haven't posted lately because I've had nothing to say; we've hardly made any progress in the last few pages (until now), and I've already stated my opinions on the Echo-strager/adam issue several times over.

Anything else? :)
adam2046
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adam2046
Did you bother looking in the first Mafia thread?
Derekku
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Derekku
Both olinad and nardi have both pretty much contributed NOTHING to this topic's discussion.

BUT

nardi11011 wrote:

It's annoying that 90% of the posts in mafia/ww game threads are made when I'm either asleep or at school. Anyway, I vote strager as he seems the most suspicious to me and this game is confusing as hell compared to WWG.
he was quick to jump on the bangwagon and vote for strager without any reasoning or proof.

I'm not even counting that as a "random" vote because he hasn't even come back to say otherwise.

Vote: nardi.
anonymous_old
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anonymous_old

adam2046 wrote:

So you're no longer certain I'm human Strager, right?
I've stated this a while ago.

0_o wrote:

If yes, do you think Echo is a mafia member?.
I can't say for sure he isn't mafia
It looks like you're dodging the question there. Why?

Derekku Chan wrote:

Both olinad and nardi have both pretty much contributed NOTHING to this topic's discussion.

BUT

nardi11011 wrote:

It's annoying that 90% of the posts in mafia/ww game threads are made when I'm either asleep or at school. Anyway, I vote strager as he seems the most suspicious to me and this game is confusing as hell compared to WWG.
he was quick to jump on the bangwagon and vote for strager without any reasoning or proof.
What bangwagon? ;P

I have to agree but as a Mafia why would he do this at L-2 and not L-1? (I asked BagelBob this in my last "real" post.)

nardi11011 wrote:

I'm not even counting that as a "random" vote because he hasn't even come back to say otherwise.
Because no one accused it of not being a random vote? He was never attacked so he wouldn't defend himself. If he did defend himself in advanced that'd looks suspicious because it'd seem as if he had something to hide.

No one's random vote was explicitly denoted as a random vote by the voter, either.

So I don't really see your reasoning here Derekku.
adam2046
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adam2046
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BagelBob_old
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Derekku
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Derekku

strager wrote:

What bangwagon? ;P
By the time nardi voted for you, strager, two other people had voted for you. He seemed to only vote for you because you were the "most suspicious", which isn't a good reason imo.

strager wrote:

No one's random vote was explicitly denoted as a random vote by the voter, either.
I meant in the case that nardi's vote WAS a random vote, which I don't think it was, but I wanted to cover that ground ;)
adam2046
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adam2046
Derek missed the joke...
Derekku
COOL DUDE
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Derekku

adam2046 wrote:

The only person jumping strager's bangwagon is Derek.
On the bandwagon against strager? I've already stated many times that I believe strager isn't mafia. :/

If you meant the bandwagon that thinks strager is innocent, then yes, I'm on it, but so is like of us. >_>

So I really don't get what you meant.
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