You mean to say we should discuss who you should vote for? ;P0_o wrote:
my vote is now pending future discussion ^_^
EST (GMT -05:00) here as well. DST applies but hopefully this won't cross into whatevermonthDSTchangesthetime.0_o wrote:
also, could everyone post their time zones? I'm EST -0500
No worries. You'll be killed on Night one anyway.Olinad wrote:
I'm still going to school every morning til saturday... so I won't be here so much!
strager wrote:
Indeed, which makes adam somewhat suspect because he is voting for me. Then again, if he were the Mafia, he'd kill me anyway. So I think it's safe to say he does believe I am the Mafia and he is not. That is, I am clearing adam's name as a suspect Mafia for me.
Sorry, I just couldn't resist. The way you say it makes it sound funny.parody wrote:
Adam is voting for me, thus he must be a townie.
Aww. =[LadySuburu wrote:
Finding a replacement for Kuu.
Why are you defending yourself?strager wrote:
If someone claimed to be an important role to the town, wouldn't you be cautious not to vote him? The Mafia would have their time at night, but the role claimer shouldn't get lynched by the town.
adam's done absolutely nothing to convince anyone that he's not mafia. All he's done is put a vote on you with no explanation. You have no reason to clear his name unless you already know he's a townie.strager wrote:
Indeed, which makes adam somewhat suspect because he is voting for me. Then again, if he were the Mafia, he'd kill me anyway. So I think it's safe to say he does believe I am the Mafia and he is not. That is, I am clearing adam's name as a suspect Mafia for me.
Villagers don't lie about aux roles.strager wrote:
Indeed they likely will, unless for some reason they think I am lying, and I'm just a villager.Derekku Chan wrote:
c) Mafia will lynch you so you can't help the town.
Circular reasoning, buddy. In other words, you've said absolutely nothing.strager wrote:
This could be a crazy tactic used by kuu. He's acting so strange that he must be a Mafia. But then again, why would a Mafia attract so much attention to himself? Once that is discovered (by maybe a real Mafia) those voting against kuu may retract their votes. Thus, fingers would be pointed away from kuu, which is the original plan, because kuu is a Mafia.
For one, you missed the part I quoted:Echo wrote:
Why are you defending yourself?strager wrote:
If someone claimed to be an important role to the town, wouldn't you be cautious not to vote him? The Mafia would have their time at night, but the role claimer shouldn't get lynched by the town.
I was merely saying that if I were Mafia I would role claim to defend myself (because you wouldn't want to lynch a Doctor unless you were a Mafia, of course). But I am not role claiming to defend myself.Derekku Chan wrote:
1) You are lying about your aux role and are either:
a) Mafia: So it doesn't even matter that you're role claiming since you can't night kill yourself, but you may get lynched during the day.
I never said I was convinced he wasn't Mafia. I'm just saying for today I won't consider him a possible target for vote.Echo wrote:
adam's done absolutely nothing to convince anyone that he's not mafia. All he's done is put a vote on you with no explanation. You have no reason to clear his name unless you already know he's a townie.strager wrote:
Indeed, which makes adam somewhat suspect because he is voting for me. Then again, if he were the Mafia, he'd kill me anyway. So I think it's safe to say he does believe I am the Mafia and he is not. That is, I am clearing adam's name as a suspect Mafia for me.
Eh? Is that a rule, or are you stating a general trend?Echo wrote:
Villagers don't lie about aux roles.strager wrote:
Indeed they likely will, unless for some reason they think I am lying, and I'm just a villager.Derekku Chan wrote:
c) Mafia will lynch you so you can't help the town.
Indeed it is circular reasoning. However, because of this circular reasoning I believe kuu was trying to confuse (see his odd posts) and thus is a Mafia.Echo wrote:
Circular reasoning, buddy. In other words, you've said absolutely nothing.strager wrote:
This could be a crazy tactic used by kuu. He's acting so strange that he must be a Mafia. But then again, why would a Mafia attract so much attention to himself? Once that is discovered (by maybe a real Mafia) those voting against kuu may retract their votes. Thus, fingers would be pointed away from kuu, which is the original plan, because kuu is a Mafia.
Agreed.Echo wrote:
mod: can we get a vote tally please?
Or night kill. I think I meant both. Doesn't matter.derekku chan wrote:
c) Mafia will lynch you so you can't help the town. (Unless you are mafia)
First, you claim an important role. Then you make a post saying that people shouldn't be voting for someone who claims a role. How is that not defending yourself!?strager wrote:
I was merely saying that if I were Mafia I would role claim to defend myself (because you wouldn't want to lynch a Doctor unless you were a Mafia, of course). But I am not role claiming to defend myself. And it's not true that I'm using that to defend myself. So I'm not sure where you think I'm defending myself.
strager wrote:
So I think it's safe to say he does believe I am the Mafia and he is not. That is, I am clearing adam's name as a suspect Mafia for me.
Read that and tell me you never said you weren't convinced. You were absolutely totally completely convinced in the first quote that adam is not mafia.strager wrote:
I never said I was convinced he wasn't Mafia.
There's no reason for townies to claim aux roles. "Drawing attention" away from the real aux roles almost never works. The only people with reason to claim an aux role are either wolves or the real aux role.strager wrote:
Eh? Is that a rule, or are you stating a general trend?Echo wrote:
Villagers don't lie about aux roles.
I think he was just raging, actually.strager wrote:
Indeed it is circular reasoning. However, because of this circular reasoning I believe kuu was trying to confuse (see his odd posts) and thus is a Mafia.
Oh, I misread your statement. I thought by lynch you meant kill during the Night.Derekku Chan wrote:
Or night kill. I think I meant both. Doesn't matter.derekku chan wrote:
c) Mafia will lynch you so you can't help the town. (Unless you are mafia)
No, I was asking a question:Echo wrote:
First, you claim an important role. Then you make a post saying that people shouldn't be voting for someone who claims a role. How is that not defending yourself!?strager wrote:
I was merely saying that if I were Mafia I would role claim to defend myself (because you wouldn't want to lynch a Doctor unless you were a Mafia, of course). But I am not role claiming to defend myself. And it's not true that I'm using that to defend myself. So I'm not sure where you think I'm defending myself.
strager wrote:
If someone claimed to be an important role to the town, wouldn't you be cautious not to vote him?
Saying I am defending myself (however implicitly) is baseless. So I'll completely disregard your attacks on my defense.Echo wrote:
Also part in bold - what do you mean you're not defending yourself? That's a baseless statement with no evidence.
I meant to say I wasn't convinced by someone else. Sorry.Echo wrote:
strager wrote:
So I think it's safe to say he does believe I am the Mafia and he is not. That is, I am clearing adam's name as a suspect Mafia for me.Read that and tell me you never said you weren't convinced. You were absolutely totally completely convinced in the first quote that adam is not mafia.strager wrote:
I never said I was convinced he wasn't Mafia.
I see, that's something you've learned from experience? I'll keep that in mind for the next games I play, and even this game when the Cop shows up (if there even is a Cop; see my post a few pages back).Echo wrote:
There's no reason for townies to claim aux roles. "Drawing attention" away from the real aux roles almost never works. The only people with reason to claim an aux role are either wolves or the real aux role.strager wrote:
Eh? Is that a rule, or are you stating a general trend?Echo wrote:
Villagers don't lie about aux roles.
There is an exception, of course, when it's all planned out, but you can't talk behind the scenes in this game so you can't use someone else as a substitute and act through them to protect yourself.
Heh, I guess so. Kinda hard to discern for me; I don't know kuu.Echo wrote:
I think he was just raging, actually.strager wrote:
Indeed it is circular reasoning. However, because of this circular reasoning I believe kuu was trying to confuse (see his odd posts) and thus is a Mafia.
That's a rhetorical question. You're telling us not to vote for you, ie. defending yourself.strager wrote:
No, I was asking a question:strager wrote:
If someone claimed to be an important role to the town, wouldn't you be cautious not to vote him?
Your posts are defensive. This argument is based on your posts, not just random guesses in the air.strager wrote:
Saying I am defending myself (however implicitly) is baseless. So I'll completely disregard your attacks on my defense.Echo wrote:
Also part in bold - what do you mean you're not defending yourself? That's a baseless statement with no evidence.
So you admit that you convinced yourself adam is townie? My point still stands - you can't convince yourself someone is townie when they haven't made a single proper post unless you already know they're townie.strager wrote:
I meant to say I wasn't convinced by someone else. Sorry.
So now you're admitting cop? General rule: first to mention cop in any way is cop themselves.strager wrote:
I see, that's something you've learned from experience? I'll keep that in mind for the next games I play, and even this game when the Cop shows up (if there even is a Cop; see my post a few pages back).
I was going to write that myself.0_o wrote:
@Echo, imo you can't really blame him for getting defensive when every post you make attacks each sentence of his one by one
And how exactly does mentioning the cop imply that he's claiming cop??
sorry, but this whole thing is making me a tad suspicious...
That's mostly because he hasn't had a chance to get on. When he did get on not much was going on. If I were you I'd wait like 14 hours until he has had a chance to post again.0_o wrote:
And since nardi has barely posted anything, I'll throw a vote his way and see if that makes him speak up
We'll see. I don't really find nardi particularly suspicious, it's just that everyone else just seems innocentstrager wrote:
That's mostly because he hasn't had a chance to get on. When he did get on not much was going on. If I were you I'd wait like 14 hours until he has had a chance to post again.0_o wrote:
And since nardi has barely posted anything, I'll throw a vote his way and see if that makes him speak up
(I'm not disagreeing with your reasoning; I'm just saying you may be a bit early. Then again you can always change your vote.)
Don't dodge the question.Echo wrote:
Firstly, strager never claimed doctor. He just went with what I said. The real doctor would have tried to cover it up. strager, on the other hand, admitted it straight away.strager wrote:
D= I didn't mean to.Echo wrote:
dammit WHY do the doctors always need to expose themselves on the first day?Secondly, he admitted to convincing himself adam is townie without adam making any real posts. Plus, he completely ignored this accusation in his last post.Echo wrote:
So you admit that you convinced yourself adam is townie? My point still stands - you can't convince yourself someone is townie when they haven't made a single proper post unless you already know they're townie.strager wrote:
I meant to say I wasn't convinced by someone else. Sorry.The cop role shouldn't be on your mind, since he's useless until after the first night. Therefore, mentioning it is a tad suspicious. Why would strager be thinking about the cop, then?0_o wrote:
And how exactly does mentioning the cop imply that he's claiming cop??
I have stated:Echo wrote:
Don't dodge the question.
strager wrote:
You're attacking. Am I supposed to just take that?
Okay, I will.
So true.Derekku Chan wrote:
Echo is being über aggressive, but you've been that way in all the games so that doesn't really say anything. :>
Maybe because he's confident. Thus, is he Mafia?Derekku Chan wrote:
bagelbob is just acting retarded.
I don't know why he didn't vote for me with all of Echo's accusations. He hasn't voted for Echo either. I don't know what to think yet.Derekku Chan wrote:
0_o voted adam off the bat for no fucking reason, then changed to kuu with no reason, and then to nardi for no reason. This is *very* suspicious to me.
Isn't she used to Warewolf games? (I dunno; I haven't followed this style of games much.) Does an early vote mean anything different there, where majority vote doesn't mean automatic lynch?Derekku Chan wrote:
SFG just joined in, so I'm not sure what to make of her, yet. But she was awful quick to vote...
strager wrote:
Isn't she used to Warewolf games? (I dunno; I haven't followed this style of games much.) Does an early vote mean anything different there, where majority vote doesn't mean automatic lynch?Derekku Chan wrote:
SFG just joined in, so I'm not sure what to make of her, yet. But she was awful quick to vote...
I don't think majority does anything. I'd have to reread through WWG rules, but I think it just goes until the day ends. An early vote in any game without discussion is usually stupid, but she DID vote after reading through, so I dunno.
Thanks :Tstrager wrote:
Also, your colours are ghey.
The first two votes are called random votes. It's what you do at the start of the game. The vote for nardi was clearly indicated to be a temporary vote in order to get him to talk.derekku wrote:
0_o voted adam off the bat for no fucking reason, then changed to kuu with no reason, and then to nardi for no reason. This is *very* suspicious to me.
This is also called a random vote to get the game started.derekku wrote:
adam jumped in and voted for strager for voting for echo.
strager knows exactly what he's doing. His vote for me was also a case of random voting.derekku wrote:
strager is mildly suspicious to me, but I still have doubts. He is a newbie to this game and could just be making mistakes. Or he knows what he's doing. Or he's mafia... hmm... Also, he voted Echo off the bat with no reasoning or discussion. wtf
Sure.Echo wrote:
Can you explain (in detail) how adam voting for you made you convince yourself that adam is townie?
This is obviously a random vote, but it has a reason for it. That reason is, of course, nonsense, and he's trying to defend his Mafia buddy.adam2046 wrote:
Vote: Strager
You're obviously mafia because you're trying to kill Echo day 1.
Either he is an experienced player trying to trick me into thinking he doesn't know what he's doing, he's hiding something (e.g. he is a Mafia and if he can seem to focus his attention on me and away from him all the better), or he's just sticking to me because he wants to accuse me at random, as I am an easy target for anyone at this point.adam2046 wrote:
I have only found strager suspicious and more suspicious.
I vote Stra-oh I already did that ^_^
I've played...adam2046 wrote:
I have only played 2 of these games in my entire life.
Okay. I understand the reasoning behind your second post.adam2046 wrote:
I'm not voting you because you voted early, I'm voting you because after my random vote you actually became suspicious...That's why I was going to vote twice, I didn't actually realise I had voted on you.
This.Echo wrote:
The first two votes are called random votes. It's what you do at the start of the game. The vote for nardi was clearly indicated to be a temporary vote in order to get him to talk.derekku wrote:
0_o voted adam off the bat for no fucking reason, then changed to kuu with no reason, and then to nardi for no reason. This is *very* suspicious to me.
Hold on a sec. You are claiming to be the doctor, yet you don't know why I'm not voting for you? I already said I believe you...strager wrote:
I don't know why he didn't vote for me with all of Echo's accusations. He hasn't voted for Echo either. I don't know what to think yet.
If you followed any of the previous mafia/warewolf games, Echo got killed first or second day almost every game, so that's what he's referring toadam2046 wrote:
Vote: Strager
You're obviously mafia because you're trying to kill Echo day 1.
adam2046 wrote:
I'm voting you because after my random vote you actually became suspicious...
D'oh, didn't consider this. I was just commenting on what Derekku wrote and really thinking. Sorry to put any wrong on you. =X0_o wrote:
Hold on a sec. You are claiming to be the doctor, yet you don't know why I'm not voting for you? I already said I believe you...strager wrote:
I don't know why he didn't vote for me with all of Echo's accusations. He hasn't voted for Echo either. I don't know what to think yet.
Oh.adam2046 wrote:
Oh, and with regards to adam's vote before:If you followed any of the previous mafia/warewolf games, Echo got killed first or second day almost every game, so that's what he's referring toadam2046 wrote:
Vote: Strager
You're obviously mafia because you're trying to kill Echo day 1.
Okay I'm starting to miss words so I think I'll go to sleep now.adam2046 wrote:
Yes I say in that post.adam2046 wrote:
I'm voting you because after my random vote you actually became suspicious...
strager wrote:
adam2046 wrote:
Oh, and with regards to adam's vote before:
Later, strager confirms that he convinced himself adam is townie after I pointed out a contradiction in his posts (bold added my me):strager wrote:
D= I didn't mean to.Echo wrote:
But if you weren't the doctor, you wouldn't care.
dammit WHY do the doctors always need to expose themselves on the first day?
But at this point, adam had only made 4 posts, two of which (here and here) were trash posts directed at strager and kuwarudo respectively, while his first post was a random vote and his latest post at this point was this one:strager wrote:
I meant to say I wasn't convinced by someone else. Sorry.Echo wrote:
strager wrote:
So I think it's safe to say he does believe I am the Mafia and he is not. That is, I am clearing adam's name as a suspect Mafia for me.Read that and tell me you never said you weren't convinced. You were absolutely totally completely convinced in the first quote that adam is not mafia.strager wrote:
I never said I was convinced he wasn't Mafia.
This post is either suspicious because adam made a vote with no evidence, or could be counted as a random early vote post.adam2046 wrote:
I have only found strager suspicious and more suspicious.
I vote Stra-oh I already did that ^_^
Now he's backing out of the claim!strager wrote:
So actually by writing all this I see my claim that adam is on my team [townie] is probably wrong, and Echo is right in questioning my reasoning.
He has a point, maybe we should lynch him tomorrow!adam2046 wrote:
Umm, I'll try...
le'see, I could be mafia and strager could be saying I'm definitley human because we are both mafia together?
That's about the only thing I feel like picking at.
To someone with not a lot of experience I believe this would seem like a perfectly legitimate argument; the mafia wouldn't vote to lynch someone who they were going to kill at night anyway. Again, being a new player, he wouldn't get the idea of random voting and would attempt to analyze every action that is made, regardless of how small.strager wrote:
Indeed, which makes adam somewhat suspect because he is voting for me. Then again, if he were the Mafia, he'd kill me anyway. So I think it's safe to say he does believe I am the Mafia and he is not. That is, I am clearing adam's name as a suspect Mafia for me.
Well he says right there in the quote that he backed out because of your arguments, and while you may take that as being wishy-washy, I think it's just as reasonable to say that he changed his mind because your arguments convinced him that adam might not be as innocent as he thought.Echo wrote:
Now he's backing out of the claim!strager wrote:
So actually by writing all this I see my claim that adam is on my team [townie] is probably wrong, and Echo is right in questioning my reasoning.
Oops, I meant to put 0_o as the author of that. Sorry. >_< I was tired.adam2046 wrote:
You're also starting to quote wrong.strager wrote:
adam2046 wrote:
Oh, and with regards to adam's vote before:
I basically said I changed my mind. I myself realized that such random voting brings about some if's which cannot be backed or anything. However, his persistence in his vote made me confused, making me think he was a "Townie." Now I think he may be a Mafia but I want to stick with my unbased believe that adam is not a Mafia.Echo wrote:
Finally, the coup de grâce (in the same post):Now he's backing out of the claim!strager wrote:
So actually by writing all this I see my claim that adam is on my team [townie] is probably wrong, and Echo is right in questioning my reasoning.
If anything, that final backing out solidifies my argument.
Well, if you insist.Echo wrote:
edit:
note to everyone: I've probably made just as many posts as strager has. If I can pick holes in strager's arguments and claims, then any lies, inconsistencies or logical fallacies I've made should also be just as evident. I encourage you to through and confirm or deny, for yourself, the authenticity of my train of thought.
I've never heard of this rule. Furthermore, I feel as though you're putting words in his mouth. He never claimed to be the cop, and you were the first person who said he was the doc.Echo wrote:
So now you're admitting cop? General rule: first to mention cop in any way is cop themselves.
I was going to vote you now, but since you're suggesting you're cop now, I'll let you defend yourself first.
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=139874#p139874Echo wrote:
First, you claim an important role.
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=139897#p139897Echo wrote:
Firstly, strager never claimed doctor.
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=140180#p140180Echo wrote:
First, I suggested that strager was doctor, to which he immediately confirmed.
BagelBob wrote:
Echo, could you point me to where strager claims?
That statement both implies that you were not defending yourself and states that you have a defense.strager wrote:
Saying I am defending myself (however implicitly) is baseless. So I'll completely disregard your attacks on my defense.
It was in response toBagelBob wrote:
I Vote Kuu for lying! This is NO wolf game!
Where I meant to show that kuu was lying about being in the game. Trying to stay low on the radar or just being kuu? I'll never know.kuu wrote:
I FORGOT AM I INVITED HERE---OH RIGHT IT'S THE WOLF GAME IM NOT IN.
viewtopic.php?p=139263#p139263BagelBob wrote:
Echo, could you point me to where strager claims?
Yeah that's what I meant. I seriously need to stop posting after midnight. My brain just doesn't work right.BagelBob wrote:
Oh, and Derekku-Chan, this is a summary, not a suspicion list. However, I feel that I should apologize. I forgot that sarcasm can't be conveyed over the internets.
The last comment about "strager can go on day 2" means Echo suspects either I am not the Doctor or he is a Mafia (or both, but I doubt that).Echo wrote:
ISeriously, forget what I said about not bringing personal issues into the game; vote Kuwarudo. strager can go on day 2.
Also here, it is clear Echo doesn't believe I am the Doctor:BagelBob wrote:
Also, I'd like to point out.http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=139874#p139874Echo wrote:
First, you claim an important role.http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=139897#p139897Echo wrote:
Firstly, strager never claimed doctor.http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=140180#p140180Echo wrote:
First, I suggested that strager was doctor, to which he immediately confirmed.
Thus, I repeatBagelBob wrote:
Echo, could you point me to where strager claims?
Another:Echo wrote:
There's no reason for townies to claim aux roles. "Drawing attention" away from the real aux roles almost never works. The only people with reason to claim an aux role are either wolves or the real aux role.strager wrote:
Eh? Is that a rule, or are you stating a general trend?Echo wrote:
Villagers don't lie about aux roles.
There is an exception, of course, when it's all planned out, but you can't talk behind the scenes in this game so you can't use someone else as a substitute and act through them to protect yourself.
Why would he twist my statement into a role claim for a Cop but not believe my role claim for a Doctor? I know you don't think I'm a Cop and you're trying to confuse us.Echo wrote:
So now you're admitting cop? General rule: first to mention cop in any way is cop themselves.strager wrote:
I see, that's something you've learned from experience? I'll keep that in mind for the next games I play, and even this game when the Cop shows up (if there even is a Cop; see my post a few pages back).
I was going to vote you now, but since you're suggesting you're cop now, I'll let you defend yourself first.
Which contradicts:Echo wrote:
That's not a claim, it's a passing suggestion.
----------Echo wrote:
First, I suggested that strager was doctor, to which he immediately confirmed.
0_o wrote:
I don't really find nardi particularly suspicious, it's just that everyone else just seems innocent
0_o wrote:
as much as kuwarudo's posts can be annoying/pointless, I'm inclined to believe him in his villager claim, and I don't want to lynch a townie just so I don't have to skip over some useless posts. So (sorry) unvote Kuwarudo
0_o seems to stay away from the fray, even though he encourages it. He slips under the radar in most of his posts.0_o wrote:
I just don't have enough to go on to vote anyone right now, we need people to talk so we can get to know them and base decisions off of their arguments.
He doesn't state how he came to this conclusion and how he ruled out anyone as being pro-Town.0_o wrote:
ok, as of now the only 2 people i haven't "diagnosed" in my mind as pro-town is adam2046 and nardi.
True, but 0_o has posted about absolutely nothing as well.Echo wrote:
derekku has posted about absolutely nothing. All the so-called votes he's pointing out as "suspicious" are random votes made at the start of the game.
I can't change my mind? If everything were set in stone this game wouldn't be fun. You may see I seem like a hypocrite because I mentioned Echo's indecisiveness, but this is different. Rather than jumping around some ideas like Echo has to try and put up a convincing argument, I stated that I changed my views because of a valid argument. How is my case wrong?Echo wrote:
Finally, the coup de grâce (in the same post):Now he's backing out of the claim!strager wrote:
So actually by writing all this I see my claim that adam is on my team [townie] is probably wrong, and Echo is right in questioning my reasoning.
By the "defense" I meant Echo accusing me of using my role claim as a Doctor to defend myself. I didn't mean defending myself against his arguments.BagelBob wrote:
I'd also like to addThat statement both implies that you were not defending yourself and states that you have a defense.strager wrote:
Saying I am defending myself (however implicitly) is baseless. So I'll completely disregard your attacks on my defense.
And BagelBob's response:Echo wrote:
There's no reason for townies to claim aux roles. "Drawing attention" away from the real aux roles almost never works. The only people with reason to claim an aux role are either wolves or the real aux role.strager wrote:
Eh? Is that a rule, or are you stating a general trend?Echo wrote:
Villagers don't lie about aux roles.
Echo shows that a certain strategy won't work for the Town, and BagelBob says it does. Echo also probably doesn't believe I am the Doctor (see first part of this post), and thus thinks I am "drawing attention away from the real aux roles." He is thus stating a plan will fail, and tries to fail that plan. More reason to suspect Echo is a Mafia.BagelBob wrote:
Oh, and I have to disagree with you on that matter. A fake-claim by a town could work out nicely. I certainly don't think that's what's happening here, but I could see it working.
As for putting you on cop: I didn't (and still don't) believe you are doctor. Thus, since you so eagerly claimed doctor, when I don't think you are, your reluctance to mention anything to do with the cop after I suggested it makes me think there's something more to that.Echo wrote:
viewtopic.php?p=139263#p139263BagelBob wrote:
Echo, could you point me to where strager claims?
When I say he "claimed" doctor, I was referring to this incident in the post above. I merely suggested he was doctor, and he "claimed" it by saying he "didn't mean to". As (I think) I've pointed out before, strager didn't claim doctor explicitly, which is what I mean by him not "claiming" doctor.
I don't believe you there.Echo wrote:
I've explained why I've been mixing and matching "claim" and "didn't claim" here:Echo wrote:
viewtopic.php?p=139263#p139263BagelBob wrote:
Echo, could you point me to where strager claims?
When I say he "claimed" doctor, I was referring to this incident in the post above. I merely suggested he was doctor, and he "claimed" it by saying he "didn't mean to". As (I think) I've pointed out before, strager didn't claim doctor explicitly, which is what I mean by him not "claiming" doctor.
0_o already has for me:Echo wrote:
As for putting you on cop: I didn't (and still don't) believe you are doctor. Thus, since you so eagerly claimed doctor, when I don't think you are, your reluctance to mention anything to do with the cop after I suggested it makes me think there's something more to that.
If you want me to explain why I mentioned the Cop, here's why.0_o wrote:
And how exactly does mentioning the cop imply that he's claiming cop??
Why I mentioned the Cop is simple: he must exist assuming my conclusion on which roles are in the game is correct. Thus, I would use your knowledge that role-claiming is disadvantageous for a Town player, and advantageous for the Cop himself and a Mafia.strager wrote:
I see, that's something you've learned from experience? I'll keep that in mind for the next games I play, and even this game when the Cop shows up (if there even is a Cop; see my post a few pages back).Echo wrote:
There's no reason for townies to claim aux roles. "Drawing attention" away from the real aux roles almost never works. The only people with reason to claim an aux role are either wolves or the real aux role.strager wrote:
Echo write: Villagers don't lie about aux roles. (Nested quote limit, sorry.)
Eh? Is that a rule, or are you stating a general trend?
There is an exception, of course, when it's all planned out, but you can't talk behind the scenes in this game so you can't use someone else as a substitute and act through them to protect yourself.
strager wrote:
0_o seems to be very forgiving, and I'm not sure how to take this.Well (at the time I wrote this at least) there was simply no one who set off any warning bells in my mind.0_o wrote:
I don't really find nardi particularly suspicious, it's just that everyone else just seems innocentI voted for him because he was being annoying, saying he wanted to quit because he was a townie changed my mind; if he was threatening to quit (which he did) why would he lie?0_o wrote:
as much as kuwarudo's posts can be annoying/pointless, I'm inclined to believe him in his villager claim, and I don't want to lynch a townie just so I don't have to skip over some useless posts. So (sorry) unvote Kuwarudo0_o seems to stay away from the fray, even though he encourages it. He slips under the radar in most of his posts.0_o wrote:
I just don't have enough to go on to vote anyone right now, we need people to talk so we can get to know them and base decisions off of their arguments.
erm, what? Besides you and Echo I'm pretty sure I've contributed the most to this game out of the players so far. Though granted most of my posts have been on the topic of keeping you aroundHe doesn't state how he came to this conclusion and how he ruled out anyone as being pro-Town.0_o wrote:
ok, as of now the only 2 people i haven't "diagnosed" in my mind as pro-town is adam2046 and nardi.
"Diagnosed" was in quotations because it was mainly just my instincts/first impressions of the 2 or 3 posts each person (again, besides you and Echo) made so far. It definitely isn't "official", it's just those were the two people who when I read through made me go "mm, I dunno about this guy..."
Do you really think it's that hard to keep track of saying whether you claimed doctor or not, unless there was a reason behind mixing claim with not claim?strager wrote:
I don't believe you there.Echo wrote:
I've explained why I've been mixing and matching "claim" and "didn't claim" here:Echo wrote:
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=139263#p139263
When I say he "claimed" doctor, I was referring to this incident in the post above. I merely suggested he was doctor, and he "claimed" it by saying he "didn't mean to". As (I think) I've pointed out before, strager didn't claim doctor explicitly, which is what I mean by him not "claiming" doctor.
You're drawing conclusions from Suburu's pregame story now? Any one of the four combinations are possible. There is absolutely no way you can tell which combination is being used in the game. Don't even try to go there.strager wrote:
Why I mentioned the Cop is simple: he must exist assuming my conclusion on which roles are in the game is correct. Thus, I would use your knowledge that role-claiming is disadvantageous for a Town player, and advantageous for the Cop himself and a Mafia.
It's never good to role claim on the first day, when there's nothing you can do to prove or disprove the claim. And since you can't talk outside the thread, you can't use it to convince anyone anyway.strager wrote:
However, in my previous post I have stated that BagelBob believes claiming Doctor is a good idea, so this may apply to the Cop but I am not sure.
Uh...Echo wrote:
Do you really think it's that hard to keep track of saying whether you claimed doctor or not, unless there was a reason behind mixing claim with not claim?
I was explaining that my mention of a Cop was NOT a role claim and I was assuming my prediction near the beginning of the game was correct for this reason, and only this reason.Echo wrote:
You're drawing conclusions from Suburu's pregame story now? Any one of the four combinations are possible. There is absolutely no way you can tell which combination is being used in the game. Don't even try to go there.strager wrote:
Why I mentioned the Cop is simple: he must exist assuming my conclusion on which roles are in the game is correct. Thus, I would use your knowledge that role-claiming is disadvantageous for a Town player, and advantageous for the Cop himself and a Mafia.
It was not a "sudden" backing out. You mentioned something which "foiled my plans" and I explained that it did "foil my plans." Accepting your argument causes more suspicion?Echo wrote:
What strikes me the most is how you repeatedly confirm you know adam is innocent, then suddenly back out of that claim when I say it's impossible for you to know that. This is what makes me think with almost 100% certainty that you are mafia.
I made a mistake.Echo wrote:
So I'm throwing things at strager.
But don't just sit back, say, and I quote, I "need to stop being so fucking aggresive. strager has never even played before, and you're throwing every fucking thing in the book at him."
THEN THROW THINGS AT ME. BUT BE DAMN SURE YOU BACK IT UP WITH QUOTES FROM THIS THREAD.
LIKE I DID. LIKE STRAGER DID. LIKE 0_o DID. LIKE BAGEL DID. He's enjoying the game. I'm enjoying the game. We're all enjoying the game. If you're not, get out.
You had a right to, though. *hugs Echo* =)Echo wrote:
Maybe I shouldn't have blown off like I did. I'm sorry.
Aww, gay love. <3Derekku Chan wrote:
You had a right to, though. *hugs Echo* =)Echo wrote:
Maybe I shouldn't have blown off like I did. I'm sorry.
"almost 2am" huh.Derekku Chan wrote:
Okay, I'm gonna click off this topic for now. I'd rather not try and do any critical thinking at almost 2am.
You're the one that wanted gay sex earlier :<strager wrote:
Aww, gay love. <3Derekku Chan wrote:
You had a right to, though. *hugs Echo* =)Echo wrote:
Maybe I shouldn't have blown off like I did. I'm sorry.
How soon is that? =SLadySubaru wrote:
Edit: Deadline next Thurs at 6:00 PM
This confuses me so much, I'll probably end up dropping it unless I can make sense of it when I wake up.strager wrote:
By the "defense" I meant Echo accusing me of using my role claim as a Doctor to defend myself. I didn't mean defending myself against his arguments.
I re-read that post and I don't think Echo is being even slightly defensive of adam.strager wrote:
----------
Echo seems to be super defensive of adam in hislatestnext-to-latest post. Why? I'm not pointing my finger at him.
Well I said before that I was thinking either you or nardi, and from the general feel of your posts I just started to lean towards you. It's the first day and there isn't a lot of evidence from anyone to go on, so for today I'm just playing by my gutadam2046 wrote:
Oh and I didn't realise 0_o changed his vote yet again without reasoning (and to me of all people!...jk)
I don't remember making a Monty Python reference...
lol?0_o wrote:
Well I said before that I was thinking either you or nardi, and from the general feel of your posts I just started to lean towards you. It's the first day and there isn't a lot of evidence from anyone to go on, so for today I'm just playing by my gut
I agree that bolded part is quite suspicious...Echo wrote:
lol?0_o wrote:
Well I said before that I was thinking either you or nardi, and from the general feel of your posts I just started to lean towards you. It's the first day and there isn't a lot of evidence from anyone to go on, so for today I'm just playing by my gut
To clarify:BagelBob wrote:
This confuses me so much, I'll probably end up dropping it unless I can make sense of it when I wake up.strager wrote:
By the "defense" I meant Echo accusing me of using my role claim as a Doctor to defend myself. I didn't mean defending myself against his arguments.
I then I responded:Echo wrote:
First, you claim an important role. Then you make a post saying that people shouldn't be voting for someone who claims a role. How is that not defending yourself!?
The "claiming Doctor to defend myself" is what I meant by "defending myself" there, and that's what I tried explaining in the post you quoted.strager wrote:
Saying I am defending myself (however implicitly) is baseless. So I'll completely disregard your attacks on my defense.
I was responding to this:strager wrote:
I don't know where you got the idea that I think having the doktor role-claim on the first day is a good idea. I distinctly remember saying "I dislike role claims", and you first quoting me about it, then doing an analysis earlier.
I was working off that the 'could' is 'would' in the hypothetical situation.BagelBob wrote:
Oh, and I have to disagree with you on that matter. A fake-claim by a town could work out nicely. I certainly don't think that's what's happening here, but I could see it working.
ohi adam! <3strager wrote:
Seriously, short term- Hey look, a butterfly!
Mainly in response to this:BagelBob wrote:
I re-read that post and I don't think Echo is being even slightly defensive of adam.strager wrote:
Echo seems to be super defensive of adam in hislatestnext-to-latest post. Why? I'm not pointing my finger at him.
In fact, he says specifically "None of adam's posts in any way indicate that he is townie"
I don't know how you came up with this, would you care to explain?
He claims no one should know anything, yet says I do know something. Also, I haven't "confirmed" this -- confirmation requires more information, not a reiteration of the same information.Echo wrote:
None of adam's posts in any way indicate that he is townie, and no one should be able to confirm this. Yet strager claims to believe, and has managed to convince himself, that adam is townie. I suspect this is because strager is mafia and knows that adam is townie.
Maybe because Derekku voted for him and is being more cautious now?BagelBob wrote:
I still consider strager my major suspect at the moment, and I don't see the reasons why Echo is backing off.
Quite.BagelBob wrote:
However, I think we still have ~6 days left to decide things, so I'm not ready to lynch him yet. I'd really like to hear a bit more from SFG(with her amazing 1 post), Olinad(with double that), and nardii(with a record 3) before doing anything that can't be reversed.
Double wrong...strager wrote:
ohi adam! <3strager wrote:
Seriously, short term- Hey look, a butterfly!
And you already know my opinions of them, so...I did not intend to claim myself as Doctor. I just did it because Echo forced me to.Saturos-fangirl wrote:
On to my analysis of strager. he's obviously a noob, its hard to tell if his "claim" was actually intentional or not so im going to say...strager if you fully intended to claim the role of doctor when you supposedly did, please do so in bold in your next post.
I think almost all my mistakes have been me either mistyping or miswriting what I meant (which I clarified shortly thereafter).Saturos-fangirl wrote:
As for his repeated mistakes
Are you suggesting more slip-ups mean someone is less intelligent? And how are my slips "out-of-proportion"? Please point them out (I would like to know).Saturos-fangirl wrote:
The relative numbers of slip-ups made in the first game are pretty reasonably proportional to how intelligent the player is outside of the game, and strager's slips are out-of-proportion unless he has a serious mental disability that he's been hiding (take it as a compliment, strager, i think you're intelligent).
That supports my strong belief that Echo is a Mafia.Saturos-fangirl wrote:
However if Echo is mafia than strager is not mafia, and vice versa, because both are intelligent and no intelligent mafia team would attack each other like that.
As I have said, I really don't know what to think of 0_o and I don't know what he's up to (if anything).Saturos-fangirl wrote:
0_o is doing a beautiful job of defending strager. there are really three possibilities. 1. strager and 0_o are both mafia - if Echo is mafia this is completely invalid. If Echo is town, either 0_o and strager are misled citizens or mafia. 2. strager is mafia and 0_o is a misled citizen. 3. strager and 0_o are both citizens.
based on tone, im guessing that 0_o is a citizen, but that doesnt give me any help at all as to identifying strager.
Eek!Saturos-fangirl wrote:
also since strager no longer has the appearance of claiming doctor, which was what was stopping me from voting against him before. this is also making me begin to doubt Echo's skill at this game, but meh.
unvote
vote strager
Think anyway.nardi11011 wrote:
I'm not sure what to think of the current situation.