Loctav wrote:

Skinning

Rules

1. Custom catchers must be included in both v1 and v2 skin format. This is to ensure correct display on all skins. The required filenames are "fruit-ryuuta.png" (v1), "fruit-catcher-idle.png", "fruit-catcher-kiai.png" and "fruit-catcher-fail.png" (v2). this is silly. Why forcing backwards compatibility? I don't think this is what we want. Imagine we will add even more skin versions, do you want everyone to add 500 catcher sprites for the sake of all legacy layers? Nah. To clarify this, there was an update on the cuttingedge release stream to make the catcher work in all versions, whereas the ryuuta only works if it is included and the player uses a skin supporting older versions than 2.3. It should be pushed to the stable (latest) release stream next update.
2. Custom fruits must include all necessary elements and be colored in a scale of grey colors. This is to ensure that your images are clearly defined and of acceptable quality. The needed elements can be found in the osu! wiki https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Skinning_Catch_the_Beat#Fruits. Additionally, it is recommendable to use transparent elements for the overlays. what overlays? and why is transparent recommended? The fruits are build similar as hitcircles consisting of a base and a overlay. The overlay should be transparent to make the combo colours as visible as possible.

Kurokami wrote:

Yes, that explanation was better @Riari but I'm still not convinced perfectly. Although droplet Hypers might create something which is interesting, adding a Hyper out of the blue is not really acceptable to me. I will try this out on a few bpm to see if the movement at least 99% acceptable then I will might consider siding with move it to the guideline part. But by putting it there will only makes it possible to use in a rare (1%) cases. :p

@Loctav When I last saw and talked about the transparent overlay, it was "optional" and not "recommended". No idea here. :c

1. Inclusion of glossary from original document
2. Redefinition of timing jump to borderline dash
3. Moved AR=OD to Guidelines and added caveat that OD cannot decrease over difficulties
4. Clarified combo length guideline by adding NC clears plate
5. Transfer of hyperdroplet rule to a guideline, should be used only on sliders with simple paths with explanation. Statement of intent for hyper usage on tails/repeats
6. Gave an example of when STR can be changed, reworded some negative text
7. Hdash border rule – clarified second object to destination, other issues clarified in Glossary
8. V1 skins no longer required, will reword once skin update is rolled out to Stable builds

Deif wrote:

After some meetings with the rest of the members of the Criteria Council and some deliberation, we came up with some updates on the draft of the general ruleset. Check out the OP for them:

1. Redefinition of timing jump to borderline dash

As a reminder: The thread will be locked for further deliberation on the 8th May at 23:59 UTC. Make sure to post your opinion before that date!

xi-False wrote:

Impossible Maps?- From what I know CTB maps are meant to be as smooth as possible and Have generally good flow. But we should be able to make maps as hard as "Odoru Mizushibuki"-Death Dance and have them still be rankable. And the reason why I say this is because in all honesty this does not effect the community very much. The only problem I see going on by allowing this to happen is more players mapping impossible maps. But even then Im pretty sure not everyone is going to do that. Also if you can't play the beat map that's what a full spread of for.
I mean, if you're able to pull it off, I don't see why you can't make a map as hard as that. It's just very hard to make an extremely difficult but well-liked map that doesn't have strange problems with it. The example you've given is a convert and those don't necessarily follow the same guidelines as specifics since they're made for standard, not CtB. We are not going to rank impossible maps, also. I hope, at least. There is no specific "rule" that bars the mapping of these maps, either.


Jumps-We should also allow 1/12 Jumps to be a thing, This sounds really crazy and i know that 1/12 jump are fairly easy and give tons of PP but until we start exploiting the PP algorithm system. The people in charge of handling that job will not make changes. Also For Example Exgon, his map "At the Speed of Light" is really fricken good, but not rankable. it's not impossible either. if all the other ruled applied to his beat map having a full spread and what not. I see no issues with allowing this to happen!(Side note: I also find it really annoying how OSU players brag about how much harder Standard is compared to CTB, that's only because Star difficulty for CTB is broken when it comes to hyper jumps)
1/8, 1/12, and 1/16 tend to be about context! Specifically, bpm. While it may be possible, a series of jumps can be uncomfortable or pretty awkward to play, and the less time there is, the more awkward it gets. This points more at, say, repeated 1/12 jumps, which are generally discouraged because of uncomfortable play. At the speed of light is not as much about the jumps more than the overall playability, I feel. And the 1/16 spinners. Remember that "good" is subjective, too!

Naming-Most recently Ascendance told me they did not allow him to change the Diff of his Beatmap to "Ascendance heaven". This is a pretty big problem, I really enjoy expressing myself through the names of my Difficulties which is part of the mapping experiance. I also don't see an issue with this, it's totally friendly kinda funny and does not affect other players much. yea they won't be able to find it if they type in overdose but the mapper should have more freedom when it comes to Naming His beat map. Secondly Difficulties are made to show progression on beatmap but this is a approval map I'm talking about their is no progression. Lastly i also think Difficulties names should not "Have" to show progression I should be able to call my 1* map overdose and my 7* map Salad just to give the mapper more freedom (Im just using this as an example i really don't want to name my 1* map overdose) I'll go backwards. We have naming conventions because SR is a really inaccurate measurement of difficulty. These naming conventions allow us to put general guidelines and also make it easier for us to sort difficulties. If we just had random names, then it would be very confusing to even judge each diff. The consistency is what makes the system easy to remember in the first place. The first point you brought up was rather not allowing the person to put their username in the diffname. There was no other real issue besides that, as far as I know.

xi-False wrote:

Don't Nerf Our Maps, Nerf Our Ranking Criteria

xi-False wrote:

Impossible Maps?- From what I know CTB maps are meant to be as smooth as possible and Have generally good flow. But we should be able to make maps as hard as "Odoru Mizushibuki"-Death Dance and have them still be rankable. And the reason why I say this is because in all honesty this does not effect the community very much. The only problem I see going on by allowing this to happen is more players mapping impossible maps. But even then Im pretty sure not everyone is going to do that. Also if you can't play the beat map that's what a full spread of for.

xi-False wrote:

Jumps-We should also allow 1/12 Jumps to be a thing, This sounds really crazy and i know that 1/12 jump are fairly easy and give tons of PP but until we start exploiting the PP algorithm system. The people in charge of handling that job will not make changes. Also For Example Exgon, his map "At the Speed of Light" is really fricken good, but not rankable. it's not impossible either. if all the other ruled applied to his beat map having a full spread and what not. I see no issues with allowing this to happen!(Side note: I also find it really annoying how OSU players brag about how much harder Standard is compared to CTB, that's only because Star difficulty for CTB is broken when it comes to hyper jumps)

xi-False wrote:

More Jumps-Im not really familiar with Slider jumps but i know for a fact there are no ranked CTB Specific maps with good slider jumps, so if that's unrankable. please, allow us to rank that TwT

xi-False wrote:

Naming-Most recently Ascendance told me they did not allow him to change the Diff of his Beatmap to "Ascendance heaven". This is a pretty big problem, I really enjoy expressing myself through the names of my Difficulties which is part of the mapping experiance. I also don't see an issue with this, it's totally friendly kinda funny and does not affect other players much. yea they won't be able to find it if they type in overdose but the mapper should have more freedom when it comes to Naming His beat map. Secondly Difficulties are made to show progression on beatmap but this is a approval map I'm talking about their is no progression. Lastly i also think Difficulties names should not "Have" to show progression I should be able to call my 1* map overdose and my 7* map Salad just to give the mapper more freedom (Im just using this as an example i really don't want to name my 1* map overdose)

Absolute Zero wrote:

1/8, 1/12, and 1/16 tend to be about context! Specifically, bpm. While it may be possible, a series of jumps can be uncomfortable or pretty awkward to play, and the less time there is, the more awkward it gets. This points more at, say, repeated 1/12 jumps, which are generally discouraged because of uncomfortable play. At the speed of light is not as much about the jumps more than the overall playability, I feel. And the 1/16 spinners. Remember that "good" is subjective, too!

Absolute Zero wrote:

I'll go backwards. We have naming conventions because SR is a really inaccurate measurement of difficulty. These naming conventions allow us to put general guidelines and also make it easier for us to sort difficulties. If we just had random names, then it would be very confusing to even judge each diff. The consistency is what makes the system easy to remember in the first place.

ZiRoX wrote:

There's no limit to how hard a map can be, as long as the song is calling for it. Anyone with common sense wouldn't make an Overdose for Dango Daikazoku, for example.

ZiRoX wrote:

1/12 jumps are not unrankable by definition. I don't see a problem with that as long as they're used fine. Regarding Star Rating that's something we can't do anything about.

ZiRoX wrote:

Slider jumps are based on a gameplay element that doesn't exist in CtB: slider leniency. In standard you don't have to release a slider perfectly in time, while in CtB you're required to catch that sliderend as not doing so will break the combo.

ZiRoX wrote:

The thing with Ascendance's diff was already clarified and he should be able to name it like that. Secondly, you're able to use custom names as long as they properly convey their relative difficulty. And they should, because as you said, we cannot rely on Star Rating completely as it's somewhat broken.

Riari wrote:

Deif wrote:

1. Redefinition of timing jump to borderline dash

Can we reword this? a borderline dash makes it seem like a note you'd find in a cup or or a salad that you'd dash for when you don't need to in that situation.

Suggestions on an alternative wording? "Timing jump" was just as vague :/

BoberOfDarkness wrote:

I can make overdose for dango but nobody likes CS8 :^)

Nobody likes CS8 because it's inherently unrankable, as it requires editing of the .osu to achieve. Any alterations to this rule are not up for debate, as made clear by the game developers.

xi-False wrote:

ZiRoX wrote:

There's no limit to how hard a map can be, as long as the song is calling for it. Anyone with common sense wouldn't make an Overdose for Dango Daikazoku, for example.

-Im not sure if you've played Odoru but, the spacing on that beatmap is Ridiculously hard. no one has FCed it yet in the CTB Community. but i know for a fact you can get an SS on it. im saying For Example, if i were to map "Odoru Mizushibuki"-Death Dance as it is right now, will it be rankable still?, with most of the jump being almost frame perfect.

Odoru is a convert map. It is not a specific. It is not intended to be played in this game mode. Further discussion using this as an example is likely to misguide us. CtB criteria should be based on what we want to see in specifics, not converts

ZiRoX wrote:

1/12 jumps are not unrankable by definition. I don't see a problem with that as long as they're used fine. Regarding Star Rating that's something we can't do anything about.

-true we cant change the star rating ourselves but in away we can. I believe if we were to allow High Star maps like 15 or 20 to be ranked. that will catch the attention of the people in charge of the Star system and maybe make them feel obligated to change it.

Deliberately breaking something to prove how broken it is isn't a solution. You wouldn't beat someone up to demonstrate that violence is wrong. Also, as has been mentioned the Star Rating system is flawed and easily manipulated with the right knowledge. Prevention is better than cure here.

ZiRoX wrote:

Slider jumps are based on a gameplay element that doesn't exist in CtB: slider leniency. In standard you don't have to release a slider perfectly in time, while in CtB you're required to catch that sliderend as not doing so will break the combo.

-Is this unrankable then im not sure.

It's irrelevant, as ZiRoX explained. Sliderjumps do not exist in CtB, so discussing their rankability is a moot point.

JBHyperion wrote:

Suggestions on an alternative wording? "Timing jump" was just as vague :/

Zak wrote:

The only 2 things I really wish to respond to are the argument for "Impossible maps" and difficulty names.

First off, impossible maps should and likely never be rankable, nothing in any game should be 100% unachievable, that's just silly, and I'm fairly certain the game developers have no desire to allow anything that no one is able to do. This does not mean you can't make extremely hard maps, but you're going to have one hell of a rough time getting them ranked, but should you choose try, then good luck.

Zak wrote:

And no, we do not need to be more flexible with difficulty names, as many people took advantage of it in the past to make difficulty names that made literally no sense for the sole purpose of being funny, not creativity, you still have plenty of freedom with the names, so there's not really any real creativity being disallowed.

JBHyperion wrote:

Odoru is a convert map. It is not a specific. It is not intended to be played in this game mode. Further discussion using this as an example is likely to misguide us. CtB criteria should be based on what we want to see in specifics, not converts

JBHyperion wrote:

Deliberately breaking something to prove how broken it is isn't a solution. You wouldn't beat someone up to demonstrate that violence is wrong. Also, as has been mentioned the Star Rating system is flawed and easily manipulated with the right knowledge. Prevention is better than cure here.

JBHyperion wrote:

ZiRoX wrote:

Slider jumps are based on a gameplay element that doesn't exist in CtB: slider leniency. In standard you don't have to release a slider perfectly in time, while in CtB you're required to catch that sliderend as not doing so will break the combo.

-Is this unrankable then im not sure.

It's irrelevant, as ZiRoX explained. Sliderjumps do not exist in CtB, so discussing their rankability is a moot point.

xi-False wrote:

Impossible Maps are just a Phares im using, I don't want Maps that are literally impossible to be ranked. Also how come maps that are Extremely hard, are of greater challenge to get ranked. Is it due to people just not mapping them correctly?

Kurokami wrote:

As for the sliders, maybe we can make a rule "Do not have more than 4 repeat on a slider, because its not interesting to play and generates repetitive movement."

Kurokami wrote:

We talked about the spinners first and since there is a global rule which forbids two hitobject at the same time there is no need to include it here as well. As for the consecutive spinners, well, it won't hurt including it as it makes no sense since even the plate won't be empty by dividing it.

Deif wrote:

Gameplay

1. Fruit: A large object represented by a hitcircle, slider head, tail or repeat.
2. Drop: A medium-sized object represented by a slider tick.
3. Droplet: A small object representing a slider body. Missing these will reduce your accuracy, but unlike the above, will not result in a combo break.
4. Banana: An object found during spinners. These award bonus points, but do not contribute to accuracy and are not required to obtain max combo.
5. Jump: A spacing between two objects that requires the use of dash to catch both.
6. Hyperjump: A more exaggerated spacing which cannot be caught by normal dashing. During play, hyperdash will be triggered between the two objects, characterised by a coloured outline on the first object.
7. Borderline dash: A spacing between two objects which requires dash between the opposing borders of the two objects to catch both. The spacing is not quite large enough to create a hyperjump.
8. Trigger distance: The minimum spacing between two objects at which a hyperdash is generated between them.

[/notice]

Deif wrote:

Rules

1. Your map must theoretically be possible to SS. This means it must be possible to catch absolutely all fruits, including droplets.
2. Borderline dashes must not be used in direct conjunction with hyperjumps. This is because such patterns require especially precise movement and force an unreasonable restriction on accuracy required to catch them.
3. Each map must use at least two different combo colors which must not blend in with the map's background/storyboard/video. This is so hit objects are always visible to the player.

Deif wrote:

Skinning

Rules

1. Custom catchers mustbe included in both v1 and v2 skin format. This is to ensure correct display on all skins. The required filenames are "fruit-ryuuta.png" (v1), "fruit-catcher-idle.png", "fruit-catcher-kiai.png" and "fruit-catcher-fail.png" (v2).
2. Custom fruits must include all necessary elements and be colored in a scale of grey colors. This is to ensure that your images are clearly defined and of acceptable quality. The needed elements can be found in the osu! wiki https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Skinning_Catch_the_Beat#Fruits. Additionally, it is recommendable to use transparent elements for the overlays.

See the draft of the difficulty-specific ruleset here: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/435598

Drafura wrote:

Would like to see as a rule :

Using a shitload of spinners in a short period of time in order to manipulate spinner density should be banned from rankings as it consumes a big amount of ressources (memory and cpu). (You know what I mean try to rephrase this one :p)

Drafura wrote:

Also there's a global rule wich make no sense in CtB:

A maximum of three slider velocities should be used (including 1x). For example, you could have a single map using 0.6x, 0.8x, and 1x; or 0.75x, 1x, and 1.5x; etc. If more than three slider velocities are used, then they should make sense and be intuitive. If slider velocity changes are able to be merged (e.g. close values like 0.8x and 0.7x) while still flowing/working correctly, then they should be.

Kitokofox wrote:

What happened to our rule of spinners being too close to regular fruits? I also propose that Guidelines and Rules be merged into one category. they are both the same in any case.

Kitokofox wrote:

Okay, time to do a rundown of our current revision.

Drafura wrote:

Also there's a global rule wich make no sense in CtB:

A maximum of three slider velocities should be used (including 1x). For example, you could have a single map using 0.6x, 0.8x, and 1x; or 0.75x, 1x, and 1.5x; etc. If more than three slider velocities are used, then they should make sense and be intuitive. If slider velocity changes are able to be merged (e.g. close values like 0.8x and 0.7x) while still flowing/working correctly, then they should be.

I can agree with this, too. I also want to point out https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/245521 so we can expand on this and create a slider speed limit so we don't outrun our catcher with sliders.

Kurokami wrote:

About the slider velocity rule, the global part of the RC is on the way with the changes as well (I hope). There is no need to worry about it now, just ignore it.

Kitokofox wrote:

create a slider speed limit so we don't outrun our catcher with sliders.

1. Borderline Dashes were renamed to "Edge Dashes" and the definition was reworked.
2. Added a rule about the allowed size of the skinning elements.
3. Added a guideline to have additional skin elements added.

CelegaS wrote:

In General -> Rules
"Borderline dashes must not be used in direct conjunction with hyperjumps. This is because such patterns require especially precise movement and force an unreasonable restriction on accuracy required to catch them."
It's Edge Dash now

CelegaS wrote:

"Hyperdashes should not be used when the destination of the hyperjump is located near the left or right border of the play field. This creates an uncomfortable movement as the catcher is forcibly stopped upon reaching the border of the playfield. Try to leave at least 16 osupixels of space between the end point of the hyperjump and the border of the play field, respectively at x:16 or x:496 at most."
This kind of stream is okay then?

ztrot wrote:

After reviewing this set of rules everything looks good to go! Mind you the catcher skin v2 rules will have to be amended once animation support is enabled. More file names will be required but that is only if you want your catcher animated, so that can be amended at a later time. Looks good I support this proposal as well.

Monstrata wrote:

Also, finalized rules can still be amended, that's the purpose of this entire forum anyways xD. I wasn't looking to change anything tho honestly, just some wording on the wiki.

Kurokami wrote:

That sentence means if you happen to include it, it won't be visible on the scoreboard just on the playfield, at least to me.