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ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

Patatitta wrote:

quote="ghoulybits"]

Patatitta wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

Answer me this: What counts as a contribution? There's been a lack of explanation at that end.
Here's the thing that makes this incredibly tricky: there sort of isn't a way to define that. Not for a lack of trying, but if a specific list of things you can do was created, 1. It'd probably be used as a template for others to mindlessly copy and 2. It'd probably be missing a whole hell of a lot of things that could also satisfactorily be considered a contribution. However, what I can do is tell you is the general guidelines I use to determine the scope of someone's contribution to OT.

Did this person put effort into their posts?
Did their posts involve the community in a fun way?
Did their posts further the lore of OT?
Are their posts memorable or distinct?

Please note that not all of these conditions have to be filled.

I can't speak for how other members of the OT!Gov do their business, but literally all I look for is just... some indication of effort that a person cares about OT and the people within it. It isn't an especially high bar, and there's lots of room to do things there.
I think this shows the problem with the current system, nothing is specific, is way more abusable than the previous one, it feels less transparent, this is just going to lead to more drama, I just prefer having the "oh x person does not deserve denizen" from time to time than for whatever will come with this
This is how I've personally found that denizenship should be granted since before I held a role in the government, back when Penguin implemented his policies. Trust me, the "x person does not deserve denizen" conversation happens so fucking often behind the scenes that it's kind of ridiculous.

Why are people acting like this is some sort of new change? Things have been like this for close to two years now. Nothing has changed in that regard.

problem is that this is only more fuel to the fire, it really wont fix much, there still will be drama, but now you've got people to blame for accepting x person or not, you can critize that persons contribution list if you have access to it, people will exploit the sytem further trying to copy each others contribution, it's just not a solution to anything[/quote]


With all due respect, everything you're saying either will always be an issue regardless of the system of denizenship you use, or is specifically an issue we try to keep away.

We're aware that people might exploit the system by copying others, that's why we don't share explicit lists of what things we consider to be significant contributions to OT. People will always blame someone if they don't get a role they want. Drama will happen regardless.

Back when the only criteria was time and post count, there'd be drama over people immediately leaving after getting denizenship. Arguments are only inevitable, because we are all human.
Last edited by ghoulybits , edited 5 times in total.
Achromalia
364 posts
Joined November 2016
Achromalia
mmh. i actually think those are some good points.

granted, i also doubt it's particularly new as a subject. the exploitation of systems for gain is not uncommon, and i think part of what influenced that was how denizenship came to be encouraged over time. some discourse similar to this came up back then too, with discerning how contribution would be scaled and imitated.

but at some point, i'm getting the sense that some of the conflict is also in the intentions being relatively informal, while may denizens will still see this and find reason to need some security in more solid distinctions
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora

ghoulybits wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

quote="ghoulybits"]

Patatitta wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

Answer me this: What counts as a contribution? There's been a lack of explanation at that end.
Here's the thing that makes this incredibly tricky: there sort of isn't a way to define that. Not for a lack of trying, but if a specific list of things you can do was created, 1. It'd probably be used as a template for others to mindlessly copy and 2. It'd probably be missing a whole hell of a lot of things that could also satisfactorily be considered a contribution. However, what I can do is tell you is the general guidelines I use to determine the scope of someone's contribution to OT.

Did this person put effort into their posts?
Did their posts involve the community in a fun way?
Did their posts further the lore of OT?
Are their posts memorable or distinct?

Please note that not all of these conditions have to be filled.

I can't speak for how other members of the OT!Gov do their business, but literally all I look for is just... some indication of effort that a person cares about OT and the people within it. It isn't an especially high bar, and there's lots of room to do things there.
I think this shows the problem with the current system, nothing is specific, is way more abusable than the previous one, it feels less transparent, this is just going to lead to more drama, I just prefer having the "oh x person does not deserve denizen" from time to time than for whatever will come with this
This is how I've personally found that denizenship should be granted since before I held a role in the government, back when Penguin implemented his policies. Trust me, the "x person does not deserve denizen" conversation happens so fucking often behind the scenes that it's kind of ridiculous.

Why are people acting like this is some sort of new change? Things have been like this for close to two years now. Nothing has changed in that regard.

problem is that this is only more fuel to the fire, it really wont fix much, there still will be drama, but now you've got people to blame for accepting x person or not, you can critize that persons contribution list if you have access to it, people will exploit the sytem further trying to copy each others contribution, it's just not a solution to anything
With all due respect, everything you're saying either will always be an issue regardless of the system of denizenship you use, or is specifically an issue we try to keep away.

ghoulybits wrote:

We're aware that people might exploit the system by copying others, that's why we don't share explicit lists of what things we consider to be significant contributions to OT. People will always blame someone if they don't get a role they want. Drama will happen regardless.

Back when the only criteria was time and post count, there'd be drama over people immediately leaving after getting denizenship. Arguments are only inevitable, because we are all human.


Polyspora wrote:

thats a confusing quote wtf is happening
Last edited by Polyspora , edited 4 times in total.
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits
The quotes seem to be fucking broken lmao no amount of editing is saving my soul
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora

ghoulybits wrote:

The quotes seem to be fucking broken lmao no amount of editing is saving my soul
tried to make it more reasonable
Patatitta
1,298 posts
Joined February 2020
Patatitta

ghoulybits wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

quote="ghoulybits"]

Patatitta wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

Answer me this: What counts as a contribution? There's been a lack of explanation at that end.
Here's the thing that makes this incredibly tricky: there sort of isn't a way to define that. Not for a lack of trying, but if a specific list of things you can do was created, 1. It'd probably be used as a template for others to mindlessly copy and 2. It'd probably be missing a whole hell of a lot of things that could also satisfactorily be considered a contribution. However, what I can do is tell you is the general guidelines I use to determine the scope of someone's contribution to OT.

Did this person put effort into their posts?
Did their posts involve the community in a fun way?
Did their posts further the lore of OT?
Are their posts memorable or distinct?

Please note that not all of these conditions have to be filled.

I can't speak for how other members of the OT!Gov do their business, but literally all I look for is just... some indication of effort that a person cares about OT and the people within it. It isn't an especially high bar, and there's lots of room to do things there.
I think this shows the problem with the current system, nothing is specific, is way more abusable than the previous one, it feels less transparent, this is just going to lead to more drama, I just prefer having the "oh x person does not deserve denizen" from time to time than for whatever will come with this
This is how I've personally found that denizenship should be granted since before I held a role in the government, back when Penguin implemented his policies. Trust me, the "x person does not deserve denizen" conversation happens so fucking often behind the scenes that it's kind of ridiculous.

Why are people acting like this is some sort of new change? Things have been like this for close to two years now. Nothing has changed in that regard.

problem is that this is only more fuel to the fire, it really wont fix much, there still will be drama, but now you've got people to blame for accepting x person or not, you can critize that persons contribution list if you have access to it, people will exploit the sytem further trying to copy each others contribution, it's just not a solution to anything
With all due respect, everything you're saying either will always be an issue regardless of the system of denizenship you use, or is specifically an issue we try to keep away. [/quote]

We're aware that people might exploit the system by copying others, that's why we don't share explicit lists of what things we consider to be significant contributions to OT. People will always blame someone if they don't get a role they want. Drama will happen regardless.

Back when the only criteria was time and post count, there'd be drama over people immediately leaving after getting denizenship. Arguments are only inevitable, because we are all human.[/quote]

this system doesn't really help with people leaving after denizen tho, adding extra steps to the process can not aliviate someone being burned out of OT and using the fact they got denizen as an excuse to leave

is there anything this system actually fixes?
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

Patatitta wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

quote="ghoulybits"]

Patatitta wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

Answer me this: What counts as a contribution? There's been a lack of explanation at that end.
Here's the thing that makes this incredibly tricky: there sort of isn't a way to define that. Not for a lack of trying, but if a specific list of things you can do was created, 1. It'd probably be used as a template for others to mindlessly copy and 2. It'd probably be missing a whole hell of a lot of things that could also satisfactorily be considered a contribution. However, what I can do is tell you is the general guidelines I use to determine the scope of someone's contribution to OT.

Did this person put effort into their posts?
Did their posts involve the community in a fun way?
Did their posts further the lore of OT?
Are their posts memorable or distinct?

Please note that not all of these conditions have to be filled.

I can't speak for how other members of the OT!Gov do their business, but literally all I look for is just... some indication of effort that a person cares about OT and the people within it. It isn't an especially high bar, and there's lots of room to do things there.
I think this shows the problem with the current system, nothing is specific, is way more abusable than the previous one, it feels less transparent, this is just going to lead to more drama, I just prefer having the "oh x person does not deserve denizen" from time to time than for whatever will come with this
This is how I've personally found that denizenship should be granted since before I held a role in the government, back when Penguin implemented his policies. Trust me, the "x person does not deserve denizen" conversation happens so fucking often behind the scenes that it's kind of ridiculous.

Why are people acting like this is some sort of new change? Things have been like this for close to two years now. Nothing has changed in that regard.

problem is that this is only more fuel to the fire, it really wont fix much, there still will be drama, but now you've got people to blame for accepting x person or not, you can critize that persons contribution list if you have access to it, people will exploit the sytem further trying to copy each others contribution, it's just not a solution to anything
With all due respect, everything you're saying either will always be an issue regardless of the system of denizenship you use, or is specifically an issue we try to keep away.
We're aware that people might exploit the system by copying others, that's why we don't share explicit lists of what things we consider to be significant contributions to OT. People will always blame someone if they don't get a role they want. Drama will happen regardless.

Back when the only criteria was time and post count, there'd be drama over people immediately leaving after getting denizenship. Arguments are only inevitable, because we are all human.[/quote]

this system doesn't really help with people leaving after denizen tho, adding extra steps to the process can not aliviate someone being burned out of OT and using the fact they got denizen as an excuse to leave

is there anything this system actually fixes?[/quote]
There isn't really a way to keep people from leaving, especially due to burnout, and it's not like I think people should stay here forever. However, if someone stays here longer and is incentivized to make more meaningful, high-quality posts that are able to be enjoyed by OT at large, they will make OT a better place to be.

What this system does fix is the high amounts of people (particularly from gen 7) who would post solely to get denizen and nothing else.

Denizenship is a mark of some sort of significant contribution to OT, and what better way to measure that than to have contribution as a requirement?

Also, I suggest you reply to this in a fresh post without quoting it because there's just. Something wrong here. Lord knows what happened with the bbcode
[ Sebastian ]
586 posts
Joined July 2021
[ Sebastian ]

ghoulybits wrote:

Denizenship is a mark of some sort of significant contribution to OT...
Thanks for finally explaining what being a denizen is.
Patatitta
1,298 posts
Joined February 2020
Patatitta
if the main difference is people copying threads vs people doing low effort posts, I think copying is worse, and even if you think you dont, is it really worth it to go through all this extra work and risk just to change one for the other?
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

Patatitta wrote:

if the main difference is people copying threads vs people doing low effort posts, I think copying is worse, and even if you think you dont, is it really worth it to go through all this extra work and risk just to change one for the other?
So far, we haven't encountered anyone who has gotten to the qualification stage who has blatantly copied what another person has done in order to become denizen.

Also, I'm going to remind you again that this has been the system for nearly two years now. Any changes have already occurred long ago.
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora

ghoulybits wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

if the main difference is people copying threads vs people doing low effort posts, I think copying is worse, and even if you think you dont, is it really worth it to go through all this extra work and risk just to change one for the other?
So far, we haven't encountered anyone who has gotten to the qualification stage who has blatantly copied what another person has done in order to become denizen.

Also, I'm going to remind you again that this has been the system for nearly two years now. Any changes have already occurred long ago.
2 years is not much, considering OT lifetime.
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

Polyspora wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

if the main difference is people copying threads vs people doing low effort posts, I think copying is worse, and even if you think you dont, is it really worth it to go through all this extra work and risk just to change one for the other?
So far, we haven't encountered anyone who has gotten to the qualification stage who has blatantly copied what another person has done in order to become denizen.

Also, I'm going to remind you again that this has been the system for nearly two years now. Any changes have already occurred long ago.
2 years is not much, considering OT lifetime.
While that is correct, my point still stands that any adjustments that the government should have made have already been made, and by now there isn't a single person who isn't a denizen who has ever known another system besides Penguin's.
ShinRun
266 posts
Joined November 2020
ShinRun

Polyspora wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

if the main difference is people copying threads vs people doing low effort posts, I think copying is worse, and even if you think you dont, is it really worth it to go through all this extra work and risk just to change one for the other?
So far, we haven't encountered anyone who has gotten to the qualification stage who has blatantly copied what another person has done in order to become denizen.

Also, I'm going to remind you again that this has been the system for nearly two years now. Any changes have already occurred long ago.
2 years is not much, considering OT lifetime.
But in the life time of when the OT!Gov was form and when denizenship was introduced, it’s basically half the timeline
igorsprite
623 posts
Joined September 2015
igorsprite

ghoulybits wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

if the main difference is people copying threads vs people doing low effort posts, I think copying is worse, and even if you think you dont, is it really worth it to go through all this extra work and risk just to change one for the other?
So far, we haven't encountered anyone who has gotten to the qualification stage who has blatantly copied what another person has done in order to become denizen.

Also, I'm going to remind you again that this has been the system for nearly two years now. Any changes have already occurred long ago.
2 years is not much, considering OT lifetime.
While that is correct, my point still stands that any adjustments that the government should have made have already been made, and by now there isn't a single person who isn't a denizen who has ever known another system besides Penguin's.
i'm not a denizen and i know another system xd
Patatitta
1,298 posts
Joined February 2020
Patatitta

ghoulybits wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

if the main difference is people copying threads vs people doing low effort posts, I think copying is worse, and even if you think you dont, is it really worth it to go through all this extra work and risk just to change one for the other?
So far, we haven't encountered anyone who has gotten to the qualification stage who has blatantly copied what another person has done in order to become denizen.

Also, I'm going to remind you again that this has been the system for nearly two years now. Any changes have already occurred long ago.
hasn't really changed because this system was not implemented yet, different systems has different weaknesses

if this has been the system, or close to for the last 2 years, and this change just only adds a human verification in the way, why do you actually think this system is going to work better?

people have been critizing the previous system too, this really just doesn't improve much at all

i dont think people are going to stop trying to just flood to get denizen either, most people who beg arent ellegible in the first place, people are also going to keep quitting after obtaining denizen, burnout is still a thing
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

Patatitta wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

if the main difference is people copying threads vs people doing low effort posts, I think copying is worse, and even if you think you dont, is it really worth it to go through all this extra work and risk just to change one for the other?
So far, we haven't encountered anyone who has gotten to the qualification stage who has blatantly copied what another person has done in order to become denizen.

Also, I'm going to remind you again that this has been the system for nearly two years now. Any changes have already occurred long ago.
hasn't really changed because this system was not implemented yet, different systems has different weaknesses

if this has been the system, or close to for the last 2 years, and this change just only adds a human verification in the way, why do you actually think this system is going to work better?

people have been critizing the previous system too, this really just doesn't improve much at all

i dont think people are going to stop trying to just flood to get denizen either, most people who beg arent ellegible in the first place, people are also going to keep quitting after obtaining denizen, burnout is still a thing
?? I'm... Not really sure what you're talking about here.

The current system of deciding denizenship has not changed since Penguin. While things have been added upon it, like denizens submitting their own contributions and denizenship being able to be removed, how we decide denizenship hasn't changed. No system that will change how denizenship is fundamentally decided has been implemented.

Are we having two different conversations here? I'm starting to think we are.
Patatitta
1,298 posts
Joined February 2020
Patatitta

ghoulybits wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

if the main difference is people copying threads vs people doing low effort posts, I think copying is worse, and even if you think you dont, is it really worth it to go through all this extra work and risk just to change one for the other?
So far, we haven't encountered anyone who has gotten to the qualification stage who has blatantly copied what another person has done in order to become denizen.

Also, I'm going to remind you again that this has been the system for nearly two years now. Any changes have already occurred long ago.
hasn't really changed because this system was not implemented yet, different systems has different weaknesses

if this has been the system, or close to for the last 2 years, and this change just only adds a human verification in the way, why do you actually think this system is going to work better?

people have been critizing the previous system too, this really just doesn't improve much at all

i dont think people are going to stop trying to just flood to get denizen either, most people who beg arent ellegible in the first place, people are also going to keep quitting after obtaining denizen, burnout is still a thing
?? I'm... Not really sure what you're talking about here.

The current system of deciding denizenship has not changed since Penguin. While things have been added upon it, like denizens submitting their own contributions and denizenship being able to be removed, how we decide denizenship hasn't changed. No system that will change how denizenship is fundamentally decided has been implemented.

Are we having two different conversations here? I'm starting to think we are.
"Also, I'm going to remind you again that this has been the system for nearly two years now. Any changes have already occurred long ago."

I was working off this line, did I missunderstand it?, from what I understood you said that contribution was already a factor since 2 years ago
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

Patatitta wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

if the main difference is people copying threads vs people doing low effort posts, I think copying is worse, and even if you think you dont, is it really worth it to go through all this extra work and risk just to change one for the other?
So far, we haven't encountered anyone who has gotten to the qualification stage who has blatantly copied what another person has done in order to become denizen.

Also, I'm going to remind you again that this has been the system for nearly two years now. Any changes have already occurred long ago.
hasn't really changed because this system was not implemented yet, different systems has different weaknesses

if this has been the system, or close to for the last 2 years, and this change just only adds a human verification in the way, why do you actually think this system is going to work better?

people have been critizing the previous system too, this really just doesn't improve much at all

i dont think people are going to stop trying to just flood to get denizen either, most people who beg arent ellegible in the first place, people are also going to keep quitting after obtaining denizen, burnout is still a thing
?? I'm... Not really sure what you're talking about here.

The current system of deciding denizenship has not changed since Penguin. While things have been added upon it, like denizens submitting their own contributions and denizenship being able to be removed, how we decide denizenship hasn't changed. No system that will change how denizenship is fundamentally decided has been implemented.

Are we having two different conversations here? I'm starting to think we are.
"Also, I'm going to remind you again that this has been the system for nearly two years now. Any changes have already occurred long ago."

I was working off this line, did I missunderstand it?, from what I understood you said that contribution was already a factor since 2 years ago
I think you might have? I'm not sure what you mean by "human verification" being added. This current system has been implemented for a while, so I'm also not really sure what you're talking about there.
Patatitta
1,298 posts
Joined February 2020
Patatitta
by human verification I meant the adding the asking in dm for a list of contributions

what I understood from your posts is that contribution was already taken as a factor, and that this change only adds the requirement for that list
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

Patatitta wrote:

by human verification I meant the adding the asking in dm for a list of contributions

what I understood from your posts is that contribution was already taken as a factor, and that this change only adds the requirement for that list
It's less of a requirement and more of a convenience for the OT!Government in cases where it was hard to find contributions made by various denizens.
Patatitta
1,298 posts
Joined February 2020
Patatitta

ghoulybits wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

by human verification I meant the adding the asking in dm for a list of contributions

what I understood from your posts is that contribution was already taken as a factor, and that this change only adds the requirement for that list
It's less of a requirement and more of a convenience for the OT!Government in cases where it was hard to find contributions made by various denizens.
could this system be changed for the list to only be a requirement for edge cases, while keeping the previous system?, I still disagree a bit in the philosophy in genreal but i'm way more ok with that
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora
congrats! we got to 2100 posts with some dumb shit
[ Sebastian ]
586 posts
Joined July 2021
[ Sebastian ]
Welp, looks like we'll have to deal with this new denizenship system.
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

Welp, looks like we'll have to deal with this new denizenship system.
What new system? There is no "new" system. It's the same as it was before you even got here.
Hoshimegu Mio
1,097 posts
Joined July 2020
Hoshimegu Mio
Let me point it clear here:

Denizenship doesn’t get you money.
Denizenship doesn’t mean anything in real life.
Denizenship can’t get you any more privileges.
Denizenship can’t make you become somehow above other people.
Denizenship doesn’t change anything about you.
Denizenship means literally nothing outside of a random subforum in a forum half-dead in a game most people don’t care about.
In short, denizenship is quite literally worthless.
[ Sebastian ]
586 posts
Joined July 2021
[ Sebastian ]
I don't fucking care about it anymore.
Achromalia
364 posts
Joined November 2016
Achromalia

YyottaCat wrote:

Let me point it clear here:

Denizenship doesn’t get you money.
Denizenship doesn’t mean anything in real life.
Denizenship can’t get you any more privileges.
Denizenship can’t make you become somehow above other people.
Denizenship doesn’t change anything about you.
Denizenship means literally nothing outside of a random subforum in a forum half-dead in a game most people don’t care about.
In short, denizenship is quite literally worthless.
pretty much. it's hardly more than a glorified hall of fame on the basis of recognition for subforum contribution, though i did want one thing for clarification-- does denizenship have intra-forum political relevance? if for example it was needed to apply for ot!parliament/ot!government/ot!president, then it would have much more significance than it's worth

well, either way:

Polyspora wrote:

nobody said otherwise
or at least i think people generally recognize that now.
Last edited by Achromalia , edited 2 times in total.
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora

YyottaCat wrote:

Let me point it clear here:

Denizenship doesn’t get you money.
Denizenship doesn’t mean anything in real life.
Denizenship can’t get you any more privileges.
Denizenship can’t make you become somehow above other people.
Denizenship doesn’t change anything about you.
Denizenship means literally nothing outside of a random subforum in a forum half-dead in a game most people don’t care about.
In short, denizenship is quite literally worthless.
nobody said otherwise
Cerno
169 posts
Joined November 2019
Cerno

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

I don't fucking care about it anymore.
u shouldn't cared about it in the first place, not owning denizenship doesn’t mean u lose any privileges (maybe except the presidential election) in this community
Last edited by Cerno , edited 1 time in total.
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

Achromalia wrote:

YyottaCat wrote:

Let me point it clear here:

Denizenship doesn’t get you money.
Denizenship doesn’t mean anything in real life.
Denizenship can’t get you any more privileges.
Denizenship can’t make you become somehow above other people.
Denizenship doesn’t change anything about you.
Denizenship means literally nothing outside of a random subforum in a forum half-dead in a game most people don’t care about.
In short, denizenship is quite literally worthless.
pretty much. it's hardly more than a glorified hall of fame on the basis of recognition for subforum contribution, though i did want one thing for clarification-- does denizenship have intra-forum political relevance? if for example it was needed to apply for ot!parliament/ot!government/ot!president, then it would have much more significance than it's worth
Denizenship is required for OT!Government roles AFAIK. I know for sure that you have to be denizen for 3 months in order to run for president
Scyla
69 posts
Joined February 2022
Scyla
im gonna start a rebel group
[ Sebastian ]
586 posts
Joined July 2021
[ Sebastian ]
Now that I think about. I should've never been this angry over the change. It's so small, and I won't even be able to qualify for another 6 months.
Achromalia
364 posts
Joined November 2016
Achromalia

ghoulybits wrote:

Achromalia wrote:

YyottaCat wrote:

Let me point it clear here:

Denizenship doesn’t get you money.
Denizenship doesn’t mean anything in real life.
Denizenship can’t get you any more privileges.
Denizenship can’t make you become somehow above other people.
Denizenship doesn’t change anything about you.
Denizenship means literally nothing outside of a random subforum in a forum half-dead in a game most people don’t care about.
In short, denizenship is quite literally worthless.
pretty much. it's hardly more than a glorified hall of fame on the basis of recognition for subforum contribution, though i did want one thing for clarification-- does denizenship have intra-forum political relevance? if for example it was needed to apply for ot!parliament/ot!government/ot!president, then it would have much more significance than it's worth
Denizenship is required for OT!Government roles AFAIK. I know for sure that you have to be denizen for 3 months in order to run for president
hmmn. then it might become a problem if people express discontent or outrage as a result, because that then could qualify as a privilege and distinct class of power (edit: not functional power like the gmt, though)

it could similarly be said that this system was implemented inconsistently or may not have been necessary, using my initial presidency as an example to justify that perspective.

since i'm not personally privy to the reasoning and discourse within ot!government, i can't claim it's faulty, but from this point of observation, this would be yet another fault line of class disparity, however marginal it might seem (since a user can more or less do what they want regardless, and ot!government at best might serve as an organized committee that can distribute posts & media). all users have no genuine difference of functional power other than abraker as a gmt. the soft intangible power of denizenship would be hard to meaningfully gauge beyond that though.
Last edited by Achromalia , edited 3 times in total.
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

Now that I think about. I should've never been this angry over the change. It's so small, and I won't even be able to qualify for another 6 months.
Again, I ask you, what change are you talking about?
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora

ghoulybits wrote:

Achromalia wrote:

YyottaCat wrote:

Let me point it clear here:

Denizenship doesn’t get you money.
Denizenship doesn’t mean anything in real life.
Denizenship can’t get you any more privileges.
Denizenship can’t make you become somehow above other people.
Denizenship doesn’t change anything about you.
Denizenship means literally nothing outside of a random subforum in a forum half-dead in a game most people don’t care about.
In short, denizenship is quite literally worthless.
pretty much. it's hardly more than a glorified hall of fame on the basis of recognition for subforum contribution, though i did want one thing for clarification-- does denizenship have intra-forum political relevance? if for example it was needed to apply for ot!parliament/ot!government/ot!president, then it would have much more significance than it's worth
Denizenship is required for OT!Government roles AFAIK. I know for sure that you have to be denizen for 3 months in order to run for president
you need to be a denizen to run for president.
[ Sebastian ]
586 posts
Joined July 2021
[ Sebastian ]

ghoulybits wrote:

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

Now that I think about. I should've never been this angry over the change. It's so small, and I won't even be able to qualify for another 6 months.
Again, I ask you, what change are you talking about?
You said that you'd make a change to the denizen process.
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

Now that I think about. I should've never been this angry over the change. It's so small, and I won't even be able to qualify for another 6 months.
Again, I ask you, what change are you talking about?
You said that you'd make a change to the denizen process.
? When the hell did I say that
[ Sebastian ]
586 posts
Joined July 2021
[ Sebastian ]

ghoulybits wrote:

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

Now that I think about. I should've never been this angry over the change. It's so small, and I won't even be able to qualify for another 6 months.
Again, I ask you, what change are you talking about?
You said that you'd make a change to the denizen process.
? When the hell did I say that
Forget it. I'm just an idiot like always.
Manishh
2,093 posts
Joined October 2020
Manishh

Last edited by Manishh , edited 2 times in total.
ShinRun
266 posts
Joined November 2020
ShinRun
Manish I doubt you can come up with something better
Puck_
251 posts
Joined January 2020
Puck_

ShinRun wrote:

Manish I doubt you can come up with something better
BUT I CAN. Sit down everyone, let me entail a great solution...
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits
"new denizen system bad = women bad" do I have to remind you that I am still using Penguin's system
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora

ghoulybits wrote:

"new denizen system bad = women bad" do I have to remind you that I am still using Penguin's system
calm down woman, its just a meme
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

Polyspora wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

"new denizen system bad = women bad" do I have to remind you that I am still using Penguin's system
calm down woman, its just a meme
I'm perfectly calm, I just find it incredibly hilarious
ShinRun
266 posts
Joined November 2020
ShinRun
ghouly probably packin 10 inches down there ngl
Puck_
251 posts
Joined January 2020
Puck_

ShinRun wrote:

ghouly probably packin 10 inches down there ngl
I change my mind, this is going into a cursed direction now.
Last edited by Puck_ , edited 1 time in total.
Scyla
69 posts
Joined February 2022
Scyla
ghouly's almost 1 ruler d
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora

ShinRun wrote:

ghouly probably packin 10 inches down there ngl
that would be really cool
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora

ghoulybits wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

"new denizen system bad = women bad" do I have to remind you that I am still using Penguin's system
calm down woman, its just a meme
I'm perfectly calm, I just find it incredibly hilarious
I think he's talking about the recent changes btw, especially the revoke denizen thing and the interview that he whined about on discord
Last edited by Polyspora , edited 1 time in total.
Kaaruumii
861 posts
Joined November 2021
Kaaruumii
uh i didnt think it was gonna go this far sorry lol
synthwavesquid
216 posts
Joined February 2021
synthwavesquid
-
Last edited by synthwavesquid , edited 1 time in total.
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

Polyspora wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

"new denizen system bad = women bad" do I have to remind you that I am still using Penguin's system
calm down woman, its just a meme
I'm perfectly calm, I just find it incredibly hilarious
I think he's talking about the recent changes btw, especially the revoke denizen thing and the interview that he whined about on discord
Manish has always been a little allergic to reading (as well as like, a solid 70% of the people on here)
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora

ghoulybits wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

"new denizen system bad = women bad" do I have to remind you that I am still using Penguin's system
calm down woman, its just a meme
I'm perfectly calm, I just find it incredibly hilarious
I think he's talking about the recent changes btw, especially the revoke denizen thing and the interview that he whined about on discord
Manish has always been a little allergic to reading (as well as like, a solid 70% of the people on here)
you shouldnt expect people to read something in 2022 tbh, thats ingenuous
[ Sebastian ]
586 posts
Joined July 2021
[ Sebastian ]

Polyspora wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

"new denizen system bad = women bad" do I have to remind you that I am still using Penguin's system
calm down woman, its just a meme
I'm perfectly calm, I just find it incredibly hilarious
I think he's talking about the recent changes btw, especially the revoke denizen thing and the interview that he whined about on discord
Manish has always been a little allergic to reading (as well as like, a solid 70% of the people on here)
you shouldnt expect people to read something in 2022 tbh, thats ingenuous
She needs to chill out.
Kaaruumii
861 posts
Joined November 2021
Kaaruumii
727 penis gamers
Manishh
2,093 posts
Joined October 2020
Manishh

ghoulybits wrote:

"new denizen system bad = women bad" do I have to remind you that I am still using Penguin's system
Relax you got me wrong


women bad = new denizen system bad
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora

Manishh wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

"new denizen system bad = women bad" do I have to remind you that I am still using Penguin's system
Relax you got me wrong


women bad = new denizen system bad
lmao
[ Sebastian ]
586 posts
Joined July 2021
[ Sebastian ]

Polyspora wrote:

Manishh wrote:

ghoulybits wrote:

"new denizen system bad = women bad" do I have to remind you that I am still using Penguin's system
Relax you got me wrong


women bad = new denizen system bad
lmao
Where did she get that from? lol
Achromalia
364 posts
Joined November 2016
Achromalia
when are we not going to be unreasonably antagonistic

because i sense myself being tempted to antagonize y'all myself, and this is hardly coalition-opposition roleplay anymore

my perspective is that ghouly has been reasonable the entire time, considering how many questions have been given answers, and the significant efforts toward actually trying to understand where we're coming from.

if there's any reason for her not seeming calm at some point, the past several hours of trying to respond and clarify, despite what i'm starting to believe to be people failing to operate in good faith, are probably it.

that in no way disqualifies or discounts the questions made in theory. in practice, though, this is... making it hard to believe this isn't just unironic and unfunny contrarianism from a point of personal vindictive bias.

idk whether to go off further, and give specifics to make into a real problem (;; = ~=)
Last edited by Achromalia , edited 1 time in total.
Ymir
1,808 posts
Joined June 2020
Ymir
What Acromalia said.

Why are we being so negative and pressuring a single person?

These things take time, I'm genuinely amazed at how professionaly ghoulybits is handling this mess.

"She needs to chill out", I'm sure anyone else would be going batshit insane in her situation. She's plenty chill.
Last edited by Ymir , edited 3 times in total.
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

-Remi wrote:

What Acromalia said.

Why are we being so negative and pressuring a single person?

These things take time, I'm genuinely amazed at how professionaly ghoulybits is handling this mess.
To be fair, it isn't like any other member of the OT!Government is answering questions right now. Considering I'm the figurehead and all, I can't say I didn't expect it.
Kaaruumii
861 posts
Joined November 2021
Kaaruumii

-Remi wrote:

What Acromalia said.

Why are we being so negative and pressuring a single person?

These things take time, I'm genuinely amazed at how professionaly ghoulybits is handling this mess.
+1
synthwavesquid
216 posts
Joined February 2021
synthwavesquid
-
Last edited by synthwavesquid , edited 1 time in total.
[ Sebastian ]
586 posts
Joined July 2021
[ Sebastian ]
I owe ghoulybits a massive apology. I was hearing about how the "new" denizenship system was awful, and I joined the bandwagon. I attacked people like her and Shinrun over basically nothing. I am really sorry.
Scyla
69 posts
Joined February 2022
Scyla
yay, everyone back to chillin now
Ymir
1,808 posts
Joined June 2020
Ymir
A lesson for all:

Improve your reading stamina.
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora

-Remi wrote:

What Acromalia said.

Why are we being so negative and pressuring a single person?
its funny seeing her explaining the same thing over and over
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

Polyspora wrote:

-Remi wrote:

What Acromalia said.

Why are we being so negative and pressuring a single person?
its funny seeing her explaining the same thing over and over
Every time someone asks me the same question that I've answered just a couple posts up in the same thread, the urge to include a comment about sleeping with their mother in my response grows tenfold.
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora

ghoulybits wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

-Remi wrote:

What Acromalia said.

Why are we being so negative and pressuring a single person?
its funny seeing her explaining the same thing over and over
Every time someone asks me the same question that I've answered just a couple posts up in the same thread, the urge to include a comment about sleeping with their mother in my response grows tenfold.
cute love you too ghoulybits <3
abraker
Global Moderator
8,350 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
abraker

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

...problems start to surge if other people start revoking or get revoked due to not meeting the current criteria or being unhappy with the system, and we're basically 1 step away from that scenario
OT will turn into a hellhole if that starts happening. And considering abraker's stupid ideas, I would 100% expect him to do that.
Let me make something clear: The OT! Government controls denizenship. I used to but not anymore.

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

They can revoke denizenship now?
Dude, you are in the OT! Government. Are you sleeping under a rock?
Last edited by abraker , edited 1 time in total.
Manishh
2,093 posts
Joined October 2020
Manishh

abraker wrote:

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

...problems start to surge if other people start revoking or get revoked due to not meeting the current criteria or being unhappy with the system, and we're basically 1 step away from that scenario
OT will turn into a hellhole if that starts happening. And considering abraker's stupid ideas, I would 100% expect him to do that.
Let me make something clear: The OT! Government controls denizenship. I used to but not anymore.
bro trying to escape


Anyway I already give up yesterday at this drama
Kaaruumii
861 posts
Joined November 2021
Kaaruumii

abraker wrote:

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

They can revoke denizenship now?
Dude, you are in the OT! Government. Are you sleeping under a rock?
Based unaware innocent Corne <3
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora

abraker wrote:

[ Sebastian ] wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

...problems start to surge if other people start revoking or get revoked due to not meeting the current criteria or being unhappy with the system, and we're basically 1 step away from that scenario
OT will turn into a hellhole if that starts happening. And considering abraker's stupid ideas, I would 100% expect him to do that.
Let me make something clear: The OT! Government controls denizenship. I used to but not anymore.
Cerno
169 posts
Joined November 2019
Cerno
the wise words of q9
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora

Cerno wrote:

the wise words of q9
lmao
Corne2Plum3
Global Moderator
1,815 posts
Joined November 2019
Corne2Plum3
tl;dr please?
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

tl;dr please?
The TL;DR is please be active in the government channels again please please please
[ Sebastian ]
586 posts
Joined July 2021
[ Sebastian ]
I don't know why I was following those random people over something so small. I make these mistakes a lot. I want to be normal and not have so many things wrong with me.
Achromalia
364 posts
Joined November 2016
Achromalia

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

tl;dr please?
igorsprite had denizenship status revoked.

the introduction of revocable denizenship was interpreted as a scary precedent toward unfair misuse of power and extrajudicial removal of people from the list of denizens.

people turned it into an unreasonably hyperbolic avalanche of complaints and severe misunderstandings about what qualifies denizenship and what qualifies it being revoked.

ghouly tried to clarify, people began to antagonize her and unfortunately failed to sit and listen for a moment.

after establishing that revoking denizenship is done in significantly fringe cases, and that nobody else is in danger of it at the moment, we seemed to have accepted it and quieted down.
Last edited by Achromalia , edited 2 times in total.
z0z
521 posts
Joined February 2018
z0z

Achromalia wrote:

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

tl;dr please?
igorsprite had denizenship status revoked.

the introduction of revocable denizenship was interpreted as a scary precedent toward unfair misuse of power and extrajudicial removal of people from the list of denizens.

people turned it into an unreasonably hyperbolic avalanche of complaints and severe misunderstandings about what qualifies denizenship and what qualifies it being revoked.

ghouly tried to clarify, people began to antagonize her and unfortunately failed to sit and listen for a moment.

after establishing that revoking denizenship is done in significantly fringe cases, and that nobody else is in danger of it at the moment, we seemed to have accepted it and quieted down.
i think his denizenship is revoked due to evidence (and a admittance according to abarker) that he is a pedo
Stomiks
9,043 posts
Joined March 2021
Stomiks
It hurt reading all of that.
Kaaruumii
861 posts
Joined November 2021
Kaaruumii
i think people seem to forget its literally just an imaginary title on a forum thread lol
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora
I think this situation would be avoided if you guys only typed "we revoked igor denizenship because he didnt do shit and is a pedo this wont happen again my bad."
Last edited by Polyspora , edited 1 time in total.
Manishh
2,093 posts
Joined October 2020
Manishh

Polyspora wrote:

I think this situation would be avoided if you guys only typed "we revoked igor denizenship because he didnt do shit and is a pedo this wont happen again my bad."
lmao
ghoulybits
78 posts
Joined January 2017
ghoulybits

Polyspora wrote:

I think this situation would be avoided if you guys only typed "we revoked igor denizenship because he didnt do shit and is a pedo this wont happen again my bad."
Yeah, totally. People definitely read those posts too!

(though I do agree that there should have been more of an elaboration in the original statement)
Corne2Plum3
Global Moderator
1,815 posts
Joined November 2019
Corne2Plum3

ghoulybits wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

I think this situation would be avoided if you guys only typed "we revoked igor denizenship because he didnt do shit and is a pedo this wont happen again my bad."
Yeah, totally. People definitely read those posts too!

(though I do agree that there should have been more of an elaboration in the original statement)
It was between wall of texts that why some people missed it.
Kaaruumii
861 posts
Joined November 2021
Kaaruumii

ghoulybits wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

I think this situation would be avoided if you guys only typed "we revoked igor denizenship because he didnt do shit and is a pedo this wont happen again my bad."
Yeah, totally. People definitely read those posts too!

(though I do agree that there should have been more of an elaboration in the original statement)
imma be honest there has been way too many denizen posts here i just stopped caring to read em lol
Scyla
69 posts
Joined February 2022
Scyla
i want the reject group of terrorist
Serraionga
11,486 posts
Joined November 2014
Serraionga
y'all nerds
Last edited by Serraionga , edited 1 time in total.
Patatitta
1,298 posts
Joined February 2020
Patatitta
yeah i'm out of this disscusion, said what I felt to shinrun in DM, if I end up getting denizen (aparrently I cant reject it) that shows that thy system is just fucked, since I do not deserve it contribution-wise, my clears on everything else are clear if you read this thread, and it doesn't seem that my feedback is going to make it to change
Ymir
1,808 posts
Joined June 2020
Ymir
bro just take it
abraker
Global Moderator
8,350 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
abraker

NOTICE

Despite the current turbulent mayhem and controversial decisions taken, things shall progress as they did. Today the OT! parliament has passed a vote to bestow the great title of denizen to a fellow dweller. Except the title is not great and means nothing, so- ahem. This individual’s activity is rather lackluster compared to others however their contribution is without a doubt one of a kind. Their talent and love for the OT community landed not one but two of their creations in OT’s Royal Museum of Art. Their work has captured the beginnings of 9th gen and brought many denizens together through his collabs. Give a round of applause to synthwavesquid! Oh Wait holup, I've been told they leveled up - fun stuff. Give 8x rounds of applause to octowave!
Written by ShinRun, editorialized by abraker
Last edited by abraker , edited 2 times in total.
Puck_
251 posts
Joined January 2020
Puck_
Congrats.
Last edited by Puck_ , edited 1 time in total.
Polyspora
473 posts
Joined September 2019
Polyspora
congrats dude
Cerno
169 posts
Joined November 2019
Cerno
Oi lads, we got us ‘ere a bri-ish mate innit
[ Sebastian ]
586 posts
Joined July 2021
[ Sebastian ]
Nice 👏
Stomiks
9,043 posts
Joined March 2021
Stomiks
Here's to seeing more of your artworks here, octo. 🥂
Kaaruumii
861 posts
Joined November 2021
Kaaruumii
Congrats!
Achromalia
364 posts
Joined November 2016
Achromalia
oc-to-wave! oc-to-wave! oc-to-wave!

[celebratory bone-rattling]
Aireunaeus
3,085 posts
Joined December 2021
Aireunaeus
Congrats octowave 🥳🥳🥳
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