Once more thank you very much!!Desperate-kun wrote:
[General][Freeze]
- I know from your mods that you are a fan of high AR, however I really think some of the ARs in this mapset are set too high. Mappers often think high BPM requires high AR but in reality your mapping style isn't hard to read at all with slightly lower AR, I would even say it reads better. What I suggest is the following:
- Extra could use AR9, only some simple jump and stream patterns here.
- Insane is what bothers me the most. AR9 for a map like this? AR8.5 is much better here if you ask me.
- Hard could also use AR7.5 or even AR7. Fixed them all (7.5 for hard) I hope it's still ok with the new patterns... I guess so :O
[Extra]
- 00:32:699 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Actually this section is very boring to play for this difficulty level. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of undermapping and the rhythm is perfectly fine here it's just that this section requires almost no cursor movement due to slider leniency, and the movement it requires seems to come at the wrong times. These groups of objects 00:33:503 (3,1,2) - 00:34:574 (3,1,2) - etc. all play like a one-measure long stack and the only emphasis in this section is on those beats 00:33:503 - 00:34:574 - etc. What I would recommend is either having a jump before the big white ticks instead (which would mean stacking two circles under the slider and then have the jumps) or replacing the 1/2-sliders with circles somehow. Just try to create a more interesting cursor movement that emphasizes the music better. Ah, I get your point in a way that when I ask a top-player to play it, at this part I'm always a bit scared that he finds it boring and just quit it xD. On the other hand it really fits the idea I have of the music here. First of all, changing the 1/2 for some circles is no-go because I really want a faster rhythm from 00:41:270 (1) - . And then I tried your suggestion of stacking both notes under the reverse 00:33:235 (2,3) - but, to me at least, it feels that it gives less impact actually. 00:33:235 (2) - Stacked because it's really low, it's basically just the vocal right. 00:33:503 (3) - There's a pretty audible beat here so I use this opportunity to change position. And I insist on "changing position" to me it's almost like this beat was here for this reason lol. Instead of moving your cursor constantly, try to stay at the position of 00:33:235 (2) - and "jump" to that (3) at the last moment.. It's pretty much the flow I have in mind. After that, you don't move at all, in a way that it will give more impact to the movement (as little it is) on the 1/2 here 00:33:770 (1) - A bit hard to explain but... ye, hope you got me xD
- 01:36:985 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - So why does this pattern emphasize every second white tick (by repetition) when the music clearly repeats every 3 white ticks.. You did it much better all the other times this part comes up in the music so this one really sticks out and should be changed somehow. Try to making something similar to 02:35:913 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - ? Mhh, a bit sad to change the pattern but sounds fair enough. Fixed, I hope it's good enough though *-* Those patterns are kinda hard to create xD ! BUT Remapping the extra diff gave me an idea, so I also remapped this part 03:27:342 (1) - on freeze that I've always found a bit poor of flow.
- 03:11:136 (1) - Hmm this slider fits the music well however I think it harms playability. This map is supposed to be difficult to play however what I enjoy about it is that it generally has very simple patterns that are easy to understand, it doesn't throw around with weird spacing or rhythms etc. This slider is the only thing in the map that doesn't fit this rhythm simplicity because it starts on a red tick and is located in the middle of a 1/4-section. Getting into streams / 1/4-rhythms after red-tick-sliders is kind of hard and I recommend you to change the rhythm around here to something more regular, like this: http://puu.sh/nsgU7/739e8c7964.jpg (cursor position is where the slider originally started) Really nice point *-* (maybe that's what monstrata wanted to say as well but didn't get it). Fixed it in another way, a bit. We'll see if that works too!
- Actually, I love this diff, it's so much fun to play (well I just played it once because I just came back from work and my hand hurts a bit, but it's already fun to look at and move the cursor to the map in edit).. I really like the 'overmapped' stream and the 1/8 gimmicks you used, they fit the song well for me, I wouldn't worry about those. Just the issues above are what still bothers me a bit.
I found the other diffs fine as they are (except what was already mentioned in the mods of the other diffs). I have to agree with Monstrata though that Normal could use some 'real' 1/2 to improve the difficulty spread. I added a few "triple-like" I wonder if it's enough, I told you (should have told monstrata too ><) IRC why I didn't do it from the get-go, you told me it was ok if it gets hard icon, but rating is still going high pretty fast, added like 2 or 3 and it took 0.5 ... So yep, I hope it's enough ><
- 00:15:958 (3) - I'd recommend to move this slider 1/2 tick later so that it starts on the white tick. You can have a circle stack on 00:15:824 - instead then: http://puu.sh/nslSk/696525dad8.jpg I just don't really see a reason why that slider starts on the red tick right now, it would follow the beat and melody much better if you change it. Same applies for 03:57:744 (3) - Right, sounds fair, indeed: fixed both!
- 01:15:556 (1,2,1,2) - That intense jump / antijump pattern caught me by surprise. It's much harder to play than it looks like because of the really fast movement required in between the combos. I think ctrl+g on 01:15:824 (1,2) - would help a lot to make this more intuitive. Kinda disagree here. First of all, it would flow really bad with the next slider, but that's not the main reason why I don't want to change it. I think that the flow as it is here represents a bit better the music. The way you're suggesting is a really circular movement, I don't think that's what the music calls for here. The music feels really "electrfied" and this pattern represents pretty well this I think. Also, the vocals seem to repeat the same tone/pitch each 1/2 ticks. So going twice from bottom to the top represents this as well (from this percpective you could tell me that I could have kept going on with this pattern and...yes I could have done it but it would be too hard imo xD)
- 01:36:985 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4,5,1,2) - I find these patterns underwhelming in this difficulty. It's not even so much that you are undermapping - in Freeze you had such a cool idea (repeating patterns to emphasize the repeated vocals) and here it's mapped just like the rest of the chorus. Same applies for the rest of this difficulty, when this music shows up again, except for 03:44:485 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - which is very well done. Note: This basically applies for Insane too. Fixed, insane as well... Gotta recheck if everything's fine on insane ><
Alright so I explained many issues more in-depth than I normally would. The reason is that I see some miscommunication happening between the previous modders and you. They brought up some valid points that were important to them and you often replied very short and a bit meaningless (best example is Monstrata's concern about the difficulty spread). So to solve this problem I tried to give longer explanation but I expect the same from you when you reply and deny - to give proper reasoning for your denial.
Seeing how much effort you already put into this mapset, fixing up the spread issue and the other issues shouldn't be a problem for you. I am willing to bubble this mapset if the spread issue gets fixed and if you provide reasonable explanations for everything you denied from this mod. :3
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Fixed!
I also forgot to mention what's the point of having 4 combo colors with is barely different? or am i color blind
"Might as well not have a qualified section" ... There were none not a long time ago and the majority will agree that it was better that way... Just sayin'
-------
Thanks guys for your support
(Sorry to not map the version some people seem to prefer, but that's not my case and there's already a map of it anyway >.<)
Oh again, insane and extra has the exact same OD eventhough they're different by a margin. Ever consider of reducing the OD by 1 on ENHI diffs? I think it would be better that way, wouldn't it?
@Desp I've always thought spreads are supposed to be balanced throughout all the difficulties being made (?)
For the spread... I just can't take it. Sorry. I mapped the whole thing just to rank "freeze" in a way that it, at least, follow the ranking criteria... If after that there's some unspoken rules... I'm just like "no"
... If you want to get an idea of the feel I have about this set. Try to drink 4L of millk at once... no fun
EDIT; Woo !! Rhythm Incarnate
EDIT2; Enon always here to raise the moral xD. Thanks :3
EDIT for the triple thingy: That's your point of view, I'm not removing them.
You are a TERRIBLE modder. Actually it wasn't for your own point.
Also, the stream has already been checked and approved by Desperate-kun
And Bonsai, once more when I see this:
Maybe you think it's cool to map precisely each beat without trying to go further by representing the music in your own way. Ok but that's not my case so don't inflict your point of view to others...
Some people (seem a majority who checked it) like my style as well as this map I won't change it.
Anyways I agree with the stream, just use repeat slider instead, you don't lose too much for changing a single stream or make a consensus with QAT team. (even tho was a common practice to replace 1/6s with 1/4 streams)
Anyways Yales is doing something at the 1/3 part, lets hope this can be resolved sooner
I'll edit this with some suggestion for that part.
After that, I, at least, tried to make something with those 1/3. But first off, even if the beats are 1/3 I still think there's a drumroll behind. Like, I'm sorry but it's not crystal-clear it's 1/3. When I hear sounds like 02:25:467 (5) - it's not in my 1/3 mapping dictionary. Then the melody is sticked on 1/2 02:25:601 (7) - . So unless you want to burst some 336 bpm... Oh I could add reverse but it would feel way too slow compared to the whole pacing, and here comes the last point which is a sum up of all those points: The fact that the music isn't obvious 1/3, the fact it's right at the middle of a stream section it makes those 1/3 totally awakward to play and totally breaks the flow of the whole section as they are totally unexpected. And I mean... it fits to me and I'm not like the only one who will agree with that sooo I don't get why I have to change it as it isn't obvious and actually help the player in the process.
Natsu if you can bring some suggestions it'll be with pleasure I'll check them, but meanwhile I'm fine with its current state.
http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it
edit: actually this fits the synth better
Also, we shouldn't forget that if there's kick sliders here 02:25:735 (1,2,1,2) - it's because the music gets more intense in this whole section.
Therefore since it seems we don't need the thoughts of players (as they could "simply mash their keyboard" mhmh), we should just follow the music in a way that it makes sense I found this meanwhile http://puu.sh/nEBoW/d275bec69e.jpg (I'm dead serious about this btw). I mean pace seems approrpiate, most audible beats (I'll keep saying there's a drumroll behind) are followed too. I'm like why not. Or can I ask someone to edit mp3? Pretty sure it's possible to be fixed this way. I mean it's not like we would actually hear something different ...
generally a rule of thumb is to start a stance shift with sliders/repeat sliders so that the player doesn't get suddenly thrown off by going from 1/4 to 1/3, especially in a fast map like this in the middle of stream (not sure how much good this will do in scorev2 tho lol)
since the 1/3 is hard to hear, I'd suggest following the synths as I did, since they are more audible than the 1/3 while playing. Try it out and see what you think, good luck regardless!
I tried your suggestion but as I pointed out there's a few things that bother me a little bit. It was the MOST intense part of the whole map. Understand that putting 1/3 slider reverse after that feels a bit empty.
"Since 1/3 is hard to hear" ... Ya well I don't even want to put those 1/3 so why shall I even make something to prepare the player for it? If you think it needs DQ cause it so obvious the snapping is wrong I'm gonna put some REAL 1/3. No excuse. (Shiirn and Bonsai clearly told me that players' opinion doesn't matter anyway... you made a nice catch there lol).
On the other hand seems someone could edit MP3... :3 Xexxar <3 (for what it's worth ... I mean CB agree it's 1/3 but also agree 1/4 fits better...)
, since any defense to them will be subjective as well, so the comparison is almost the same.
Anyways Yales, I think using 1/3 sliders jump is the best option you have, is just a tiny section of your map, so I guess making it a bit more comfortable for players will be nice (If you need a bit help with timeline catch me in game), anyways take sometime to think calm about it.
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Topic Starter
02:35:913 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - in Extra is missing hitsounds. Fix that and I'll blebub.
Topic Starter
Oops, I was sure I did them o.oDesperate-kun wrote:
02:35:913 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - in Extra is missing hitsounds. Fix that and I'll blebub.
Fixed!
>w<~
Need to pop bubbled because found a unsnapped in extra, and do a IRC with mapper Rebubbled
IRC
2016-03-08 10:53 smallboat: Well, I has no new map need to be modded now. Are you call me check this map? https://osu.ppy.sh/s/323522
2016-03-08 10:53 Yales: If possible!
2016-03-08 10:56 Yales: Music is a bit noisy, and it's a big set... But that would help me a lot x)
2016-03-08 10:57 smallboat: This sound like fine to me, not bad
2016-03-08 10:57 smallboat: ACTION is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/790249 Omoi - Snow Drive [Extra]]
2016-03-08 10:57 smallboat: 01:54:663 (1) - hey, unsnapped?
2016-03-08 10:57 smallboat: : )
2016-03-08 10:57 Yales: wuuut ><
2016-03-08 10:57 Yales: fixing , just saw there were another note unsnapped.. how i.i
2016-03-08 10:58 smallboat: okay
2016-03-08 10:58 smallboat: i will reb it and you call D-kun to do qua it?
2016-03-08 10:58 Yales: sure!
2016-03-08 10:59 smallboat: why i see have the unsnapped in insane?
2016-03-08 10:59 smallboat: aimod
2016-03-08 11:00 Yales: in insane too o.o I have clue why, fixing
2016-03-08 11:00 smallboat: Freeze too
2016-03-08 11:02 Yales: alright, fixed them all, thanks, really have no clue how that happened tbh
2016-03-08 11:04 smallboat: okay i still are checking xD
2016-03-08 11:04 Yales: sure ~ !
2016-03-08 11:16 smallboat: ENH fine
2016-03-08 11:17 Yales: yay!
2016-03-08 11:26 smallboat: In Extra (00:48:636 (5) - ), maybe can del this note make it play better, feel this note drum sound not so previous imo
2016-03-08 11:28 Yales: mhh, what about if I put it around x16 y116? It would add more flow. It bothers me to not map it because I can hear the beat so it feels a bit empty
2016-03-08 11:28 smallboat: okay sure
2016-03-08 11:29 smallboat: 01:26:270 (4) - NC not the same with Freeze, want keep it?
2016-03-08 11:29 Yales: Okay fixed
2016-03-08 11:29 Yales: ah, good point...
2016-03-08 11:30 smallboat: yes let you consider it
2016-03-08 11:30 Yales: I think I'm going to add a NC indeed!
2016-03-08 11:30 Yales: would make sense!
2016-03-08 11:30 smallboat: okay agree~
2016-03-08 11:31 Yales: fixed ^^
2016-03-08 11:48 smallboat: Accidently the Freezz diff has no problem want say imo o.o
2016-03-08 11:48 smallboat: So specail style
2016-03-08 11:48 smallboat: special
2016-03-08 11:48 Yales: Is it a good thing .. or not?
2016-03-08 11:49 smallboat: yes good
2016-03-08 11:49 Yales: Yayy! Happy x)
2016-03-08 11:49 smallboat: x )
2016-03-08 11:50 smallboat: Okay already confirm unsnapped are fix
2016-03-08 11:50 Yales: yep, and updated the points above as well
2016-03-08 11:52 smallboat: okay confirm
2016-03-08 10:53 Yales: If possible!
2016-03-08 10:56 Yales: Music is a bit noisy, and it's a big set... But that would help me a lot x)
2016-03-08 10:57 smallboat: This sound like fine to me, not bad
2016-03-08 10:57 smallboat: ACTION is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/790249 Omoi - Snow Drive [Extra]]
2016-03-08 10:57 smallboat: 01:54:663 (1) - hey, unsnapped?
2016-03-08 10:57 smallboat: : )
2016-03-08 10:57 Yales: wuuut ><
2016-03-08 10:57 Yales: fixing , just saw there were another note unsnapped.. how i.i
2016-03-08 10:58 smallboat: okay
2016-03-08 10:58 smallboat: i will reb it and you call D-kun to do qua it?
2016-03-08 10:58 Yales: sure!
2016-03-08 10:59 smallboat: why i see have the unsnapped in insane?
2016-03-08 10:59 smallboat: aimod
2016-03-08 11:00 Yales: in insane too o.o I have clue why, fixing
2016-03-08 11:00 smallboat: Freeze too
2016-03-08 11:02 Yales: alright, fixed them all, thanks, really have no clue how that happened tbh
2016-03-08 11:04 smallboat: okay i still are checking xD
2016-03-08 11:04 Yales: sure ~ !
2016-03-08 11:16 smallboat: ENH fine
2016-03-08 11:17 Yales: yay!
2016-03-08 11:26 smallboat: In Extra (00:48:636 (5) - ), maybe can del this note make it play better, feel this note drum sound not so previous imo
2016-03-08 11:28 Yales: mhh, what about if I put it around x16 y116? It would add more flow. It bothers me to not map it because I can hear the beat so it feels a bit empty
2016-03-08 11:28 smallboat: okay sure
2016-03-08 11:29 smallboat: 01:26:270 (4) - NC not the same with Freeze, want keep it?
2016-03-08 11:29 Yales: Okay fixed
2016-03-08 11:29 Yales: ah, good point...
2016-03-08 11:30 smallboat: yes let you consider it
2016-03-08 11:30 Yales: I think I'm going to add a NC indeed!
2016-03-08 11:30 Yales: would make sense!
2016-03-08 11:30 smallboat: okay agree~
2016-03-08 11:31 Yales: fixed ^^
2016-03-08 11:48 smallboat: Accidently the Freezz diff has no problem want say imo o.o
2016-03-08 11:48 smallboat: So specail style
2016-03-08 11:48 smallboat: special
2016-03-08 11:48 Yales: Is it a good thing .. or not?
2016-03-08 11:49 smallboat: yes good
2016-03-08 11:49 Yales: Yayy! Happy x)
2016-03-08 11:49 smallboat: x )
2016-03-08 11:50 smallboat: Okay already confirm unsnapped are fix
2016-03-08 11:50 Yales: yep, and updated the points above as well
2016-03-08 11:52 smallboat: okay confirm
YES YES YES it's happening
NAITE NANKA NAITE NANKA NAITE NANKA NAITE NANKA NAI NO SA
congrats
Grats!
congrats yales!
Congratz bro you did it!
Grats
Congrats~
Nice. Just when I thought "Why no ranked Snow Drive maps?"
I like the other version of the song better though. But this is good nonetheless
I like the other version of the song better though. But this is good nonetheless
Congratz
gratz 
oh it's ranked
pretty cool.
pretty cool.
Cool! <3
Congratz
Congratz
Hate to be the guy here but I see a big flaw in this map's spread (and mp3 quality) despite the fact that the star difficulty shows a good spread.
Easy SV: 0.60
Normal SV: 1.00
Hard SV: 1.50
Insane SV: 1.60
Extra SV: 1.70
Extreme SV: 2.00
? Maybe this is just me but in a 224 BPM, this is such a massive difference. I personally think that this is a no brainer. to have such a massive SV gap between each lower difficulties in 224 BPM but apparently some people see it as fine which i don't understand.. even by just looking at auto play the map, hard and normal have such a HUGE difference in gameplay. hello am i the only who thinks this way. I think the only reason why the spread seems fine according to the star difficulty is because the system doesn't really consider SV? only how far the objects are placed between each other.
Easy SV: 0.60
Normal SV: 1.00
Hard SV: 1.50
Insane SV: 1.60
Extra SV: 1.70
Extreme SV: 2.00
? Maybe this is just me but in a 224 BPM, this is such a massive difference. I personally think that this is a no brainer. to have such a massive SV gap between each lower difficulties in 224 BPM but apparently some people see it as fine which i don't understand.. even by just looking at auto play the map, hard and normal have such a HUGE difference in gameplay. hello am i the only who thinks this way. I think the only reason why the spread seems fine according to the star difficulty is because the system doesn't really consider SV? only how far the objects are placed between each other.
don't bully qualified mappers
Might as well not have a qualified section, right? Just rank every map that is given a heart! Also I'm not bullying or anything, I'm expressing what I think about the map, and how it can be better. How is that bullying?Enon wrote:
don't bully qualified mappers
I also forgot to mention what's the point of having 4 combo colors with is barely different? or am i color blind
Topic Starter
Why does the color "gray" even exist? We have "white" after all.Bearizm wrote:
I also forgot to mention what's the point of having 4 combo colors with is barely different? or am i color blind
"Might as well not have a qualified section" ... There were none not a long time ago and the majority will agree that it was better that way... Just sayin'
-------
Thanks guys for your support
(Sorry to not map the version some people seem to prefer, but that's not my case and there's already a map of it anyway >.<)Because they're different, but that's not my point, is it? I mean, you're given the option to have more than 1 combo color for a reason... I get it if it's a pair of similar colors, but 2 pairs? 2-3-4 is very similar so I couldn't see any reason to have just 1 pair. if it's uhm... say as an example; light and dark grey with light and dark blue then i get it, that's cool imo. of course u gotta do the color hax to make it work. Also, you forgot to address my first post here.Yales wrote:
Why do the color "gray" even exist? We have "white" after all.Bearizm wrote:
I also forgot to mention what's the point of having 4 combo colors with is barely different? or am i color blind
Oh again, insane and extra has the exact same OD eventhough they're different by a margin. Ever consider of reducing the OD by 1 on ENHI diffs? I think it would be better that way, wouldn't it?
Topic Starter
To be honnest I find hard to give a proper answer because your point has... no point.
The fact there's 4 colors won't be heavier in your folder anyway. I don't know what I have to explain between shades of blue (cyan/blue), and shades of pink (purple/pink). It's some colors you can also find in the background, but they're totally readable on it. Can you explain me the point of your remark please? What's really disturbing you in it? I mean, being questioned about the utility of shades of color isn't something that has to deal with osu! but with school...?
About your first point. Normal and hard diff both respect the DS. And as you said "the system doesn't really consider SV? only how far the objects are placed between each other." So, therefore, it does take into account the SV (as the DS is on both diffs 1.00 or something). Since DS is based on SV.
I suggest you to have a look on other sets around this BPM. You'll see that it usually takes the same gap from normal to hard. (Here's a few I could quote. https://osu.ppy.sh/b/348551 https://osu.ppy.sh/b/220231 https://osu.ppy.sh/b/291430 etc.) Not that much of a difference with my set right?
Also, the od is high enough to avoid notelock.
You could have made those kind of research before coming grumbling here (and basically asking me to map another diff) on a set of 6 diffs, 4 minutes drain time that I fully mapped by myself... I'm totally willing to get feedback, it's even appreciated but at least put the form. Cause when you say "I hate to be that guy" ... actually you love it don't you?
The fact there's 4 colors won't be heavier in your folder anyway. I don't know what I have to explain between shades of blue (cyan/blue), and shades of pink (purple/pink). It's some colors you can also find in the background, but they're totally readable on it. Can you explain me the point of your remark please? What's really disturbing you in it? I mean, being questioned about the utility of shades of color isn't something that has to deal with osu! but with school...?
About your first point. Normal and hard diff both respect the DS. And as you said "the system doesn't really consider SV? only how far the objects are placed between each other." So, therefore, it does take into account the SV (as the DS is on both diffs 1.00 or something). Since DS is based on SV.
I suggest you to have a look on other sets around this BPM. You'll see that it usually takes the same gap from normal to hard. (Here's a few I could quote. https://osu.ppy.sh/b/348551 https://osu.ppy.sh/b/220231 https://osu.ppy.sh/b/291430 etc.) Not that much of a difference with my set right?
Also, the od is high enough to avoid notelock.
You could have made those kind of research before coming grumbling here (and basically asking me to map another diff) on a set of 6 diffs, 4 minutes drain time that I fully mapped by myself... I'm totally willing to get feedback, it's even appreciated but at least put the form. Cause when you say "I hate to be that guy" ... actually you love it don't you?
Personally I think the spread is fine. The gap between Normal and Hard is indeed high, but the gap between Easy and Normal is equally big (there is a HUGE difference in density and speed). From Hard up to Freeze the gaps are much smaller, since the set is more focused on the higher difficulties.
The combo colors seem different enough to me.
I don't find this disqualify-worthy at the moment but if another QAT disagrees feel free to do it of course.
The combo colors seem different enough to me.
I don't find this disqualify-worthy at the moment but if another QAT disagrees feel free to do it of course.
Wow, calm down. You seem a little bit salty there. If you didn't see my point in my post then idk what to say to you.. And sorry that I didn't do my "research", cba to do some "research". I only do this type of thing when I see something outrageous which is almost never nowadays. I know you put a shit ton of effort in this since you mapped every difficulty and got a lot of pages in this thread, but understand that if you get this type of feedback in the qualification process, it's pretty damn normal. Anyways, if you don't want to change them at least change the terrible mp3 as some mentioned in the disqus comments. It's really bad. Should be easy to bring back up...Yales wrote:
You could have made those kind of research before coming grumbling here (and basically asking me to map another diff) on a set of 6 diffs, 4 minutes drain time that I fully mapped by myself... I'm totally willing to get feedback, it's even appreciated but at least put the form. Cause when you say "I hate to be that guy" ... actually you love it don't you?
@Desp I've always thought spreads are supposed to be balanced throughout all the difficulties being made (?)
seems mp3 is really low quality >:
Idk if there is another source for mp3, anyways I took one from:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21203138
http://puu.sh/nBlbS/6c86ead58f.mp3
Check and judge yourself , or maybe someone else can provide a better one
Also Insane and Extra diff have the same OD
Idk if there is another source for mp3, anyways I took one from:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21203138
http://puu.sh/nBlbS/6c86ead58f.mp3
Check and judge yourself , or maybe someone else can provide a better one
Also Insane and Extra diff have the same OD
heyy just joke D:Bearizm wrote:
Might as well not have a qualified section, right? Just rank every map that is given a heart! Also I'm not bullying or anything, I'm expressing what I think about the map, and how it can be better. How is that bullying?
I also forgot to mention what's the point of having 4 combo colors with is barely different? or am i color blind
.
So this actually got qualified. Hm hm.
Oh.
Oh.
Judging by its spectrograph the mp3 isnt even 128 kbs and jitters a lot of stuff around lol
a bit of offtopic D:
I'm here not to feedback but with another question. What you guys think, is this can be somewhat accurate gaps for this beatmap?
I'm here not to feedback but with another question. What you guys think, is this can be somewhat accurate gaps for this beatmap?
ahaha sorry D:!!Enon wrote:
heyy just joke D:
Agreed. This is what I see.Sieg wrote:
a bit of offtopic D:
I'm here not to feedback but with another question. What you guys think, is this can be somewhat accurate gaps for this beatmap?
Topic Starter
My MP3 also comes from niconico. but idk
@bearizm alright, edited to put the drama out.
PS: Yuii- made me salty though
@sieg if you're talking about the icons of the map. It was like that but BNs themselves told me it wasn't accurate enough. So I guess it should have those icons..(?)
@bearizm alright, edited to put the drama out.
PS: Yuii- made me salty though
@sieg if you're talking about the icons of the map. It was like that but BNs themselves told me it wasn't accurate enough. So I guess it should have those icons..(?)
calm down, I told you my opinion, you answered. I'm ok with that.. May not change my mind about the spread but hey, I don't want any dramas especially with the fact you answered me with a certain degree of hostility (kind of my fault as well which I guess I owe you an apology with my semi-agressive criticism) and that this isn't the appropriate place for it.
good luck.
good luck.
@Yales icons? no, who cares about icons. It's about gaps between difficulties shown as distances
Yales yes your mp3 can be from the same source, but hear the quality difference
yours:
mine:
I'm not the best encoding audio, but someone maybe can get an even better one from nicovideo, unless you want to keep a really low quality one. I wouldn't talk too much about the spread, but I have same feeling as Beazrim and Sieg
yours:
mine:
I'm not the best encoding audio, but someone maybe can get an even better one from nicovideo, unless you want to keep a really low quality one. I wouldn't talk too much about the spread, but I have same feeling as Beazrim and Sieg
Topic Starter
If people think it's worth a DQ, fine! That's not a bad point after all. (I wonder why I took so many mods though, but well)Natsu wrote:
Yales yes your mp3 can be from the same source, but hear the quality difference and the enconde difference
yours:
mine:
I'm not the best encoding audio, but someone maybe can get an even better one from nicovideo, unless you want to keep a really low quality one. I wouldn't talk too much about the spread, but I have same feeling as Beazrim and Sieg
For the spread... I just can't take it. Sorry. I mapped the whole thing just to rank "freeze" in a way that it, at least, follow the ranking criteria... If after that there's some unspoken rules... I'm just like "no"
... If you want to get an idea of the feel I have about this set. Try to drink 4L of millk at once... no fun
If the mp3 is going to be changed, you might as well use the one the artist put up as a free download on piapro (it's 192kbit too), even though it's pretty similar to Natsu's version in terms of audio quality. Probably the best 192kbit mp3 avaiable as it from an "official" source
http://piapro.jp/t/QzG4
I don't even speak any Japanese, but it only took a few minutes to create an account and download
=> http://puu.sh/nBzOy/74b79890a3.mp3
http://piapro.jp/t/QzG4
I don't even speak any Japanese, but it only took a few minutes to create an account and download
=> http://puu.sh/nBzOy/74b79890a3.mp3
Well yes, I think this kind (EN--HI--E) of spreads should be acceptable, the gap can be treated as "alright" for pair of difficulties while every single difficulty by itself is matching the ability of majority of this level player base, which is the case here. Though attitude "I mapped the whole thing just to rank top difficulty" is so-so. Also, the set is quite good (:Yales wrote:
For the spread... I just can't take it. Sorry. I mapped the whole thing just to rank "freeze" in a way that it, at least, follow the ranking criteria... If after that there's some unspoken rules... I'm just like "no"
... If you want to get an idea of the feel I have about this set. Try to drink 4L of millk at once... no fun
Alright, it seems better to fix the mp3 quality. I have to admit that I thought the mp3 was supposed to be that blurry since it fits the style of the song well, I didn't check that the original doesn't sound like this.
Please fix everything else that you think needs fixing.
~
About the spread:
I don't know how you guys come to the conclusion that the gap between Easy and Normal is low, it's as big as the gap between Normal and Hard looking at the incredibly low density of Easy. The spread imo is more like:
E------N------H---I---E---E
(relying on actual difficulty of the maps, not star rating)
If the spread rule change that was proposed and hugely dismissed by the community a few weeks ago got through, this would be an issue, but as it is right now, not really.
Please fix everything else that you think needs fixing.
~
About the spread:
I don't know how you guys come to the conclusion that the gap between Easy and Normal is low, it's as big as the gap between Normal and Hard looking at the incredibly low density of Easy. The spread imo is more like:
E------N------H---I---E---E
(relying on actual difficulty of the maps, not star rating)
Then why do mapsets with 5 Extra difficulties get ranked? Things like E--N---------H-----I are bad because the Normal could clearly be harder to create a more polished spread (just an example) but the spread here is reasonably focused on the higher difficulty-tier.Bearizm wrote:
@Desp I've always thought spreads are supposed to be balanced throughout all the difficulties being made (?)
If the spread rule change that was proposed and hugely dismissed by the community a few weeks ago got through, this would be an issue, but as it is right now, not really.
Topic Starter
Okay, changed mp3.
Also nerfed Insane's od to 7.5
Also nerfed Insane's od to 7.5
I took a look again, spread seems a bit borderline, but should be fine tho
Rebubbled :3
Topic Starter
Thanks Natsu for the recheck as well as D-kun for the rebubububle.
machecaz
Good point. I am guilty of my own words then. Haha oops.Desperate-kun wrote:
Then why do mapsets with 5 Extra difficulties get ranked? Things like E--N---------H-----I are bad because the Normal could clearly be harder to create a more polished spread (just an example) but the spread here is reasonably focused on the higher difficulty-tier.Bearizm wrote:
@Desp I've always thought spreads are supposed to be balanced throughout all the difficulties being made (?)
If the spread rule change that was proposed and hugely dismissed by the community a few weeks ago got through, this would be an issue, but as it is right now, not really.
gogogogogo!
bearizm for bn
bearizm for bn
:3
Confirm mp3 quality and agree OD changed in Insane . Let it do again. Re-qualified!
00:32:699 - Does anyone else think the hitsounds hear are nearly impossible to hear? I have mine pretty loud and I had trouble hearing them
00:04:708 (2,1) - Why is this 6.71x spacing? I don't get it. At 00:06:851 (2,1) you have 3.5x and 00:08:994 (2,1) is even smaller, meanwhile the song is getting more and more intense.
00:12:811 - You don't have a triple on this tick anywhere else in the song. It's mapped to nothing.
00:04:708 (2,1) - Why is this 6.71x spacing? I don't get it. At 00:06:851 (2,1) you have 3.5x and 00:08:994 (2,1) is even smaller, meanwhile the song is getting more and more intense.
00:12:811 - You don't have a triple on this tick anywhere else in the song. It's mapped to nothing.
D:
Topic Starter
Thanks for the feedback.Smoothie World wrote:
00:32:699 - Does anyone else think the hitsounds hear are nearly impossible to hear? I have mine pretty loud and I had trouble hearing them I don't know, I can hear them just fine tbh.
00:04:708 (2,1) - Why is this 6.71x spacing? I don't get it. At 00:06:851 (2,1) you have 3.5x and 00:08:994 (2,1) is even smaller, meanwhile the song is getting more and more intense. Well, it's still the same flow so I don't think it plays bad. Well, I don't even "think" it plays bad. It does play good to me. Now if you want to know exactly why I did that. It's because the music before this part feels flat, like it doesn't get more intense. Until this part where the song does get more intense (it's like a new section in the same section if you want.. a new pattern basically.) This is why I want a jump to those sliders. Now about 00:08:994 (2,1) - this your own interpretation. To me it actually gets less intense to be finally cut by this sound 00:10:199 (1) - which is really intense for that matter.
00:12:811 - You don't have a triple on this tick anywhere else in the song. It's mapped to nothing. When you want to emphasize the music with a triple it's usually "overmapped". You could probably have point them all out by the way (and not only my map). About this one 00:12:744 (3,4,5) - it's obviously to recall 00:12:208 (6,7,1) - which follows the same sound. It's just a gimmick to create some game, pretty sad you didn't see it tbh
EDIT; Woo !! Rhythm Incarnate
EDIT2; Enon always here to raise the moral xD. Thanks :3
on Freeze:
02:25:199 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,1) - this stanza is in 1/3, not 1/4.
I'm sure there's more that can be worked out. Freeze is fairly good overall, but there are some, to me, major oversights that should be ironed out before qualification. The overmapped triples are....bad, but whatever. They should be more consistent but I Am Not A BN, so i can't force you.
02:25:199 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,1) - this stanza is in 1/3, not 1/4.
I'm sure there's more that can be worked out. Freeze is fairly good overall, but there are some, to me, major oversights that should be ironed out before qualification. The overmapped triples are....bad, but whatever. They should be more consistent but I Am Not A BN, so i can't force you.
Topic Starter
Thanks for your feedback.Shiirn wrote:
on Freeze:
02:25:199 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,1) - this stanza is in 1/3, not 1/4. Pretty sure it's debatable. I asked MUTLIPLE players (from average to expert) as well as modders/mappers and the majority told me it was fine and I should keep it (I still have some screenshots xD) For my part I feel that 1/4 is way more fitting, also you have no clue what you're hitting when it's put 1/3.
I'm sure there's more that can be worked out. Freeze is fairly good overall, but there are some, to me, major oversights that should be ironed out before qualification. You might actually want to detail a bit more. Like... that's your point of view, and I'm thankful for that. But to me it's fine and after 9 months spamming #modreq, 46 checks (not counting the hundreds of testplays) your remark feels like a stone in my face.
EDIT for the triple thingy: That's your point of view, I'm not removing them.
Yeah as mentioned 02:25:199 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,1) is definitely 1/3, not 1/4
Something "playing fine" does not mean it fits the song, 1/4s playing nice doesn't mean that it fits at all, and this is just plain wrong snapping. And 00:04:708 (2,1) just feels overdone, (1) is in no way significantly more intense than any other beat to justify that enormous spacing
Generally I like how you say "I don't think it's a good thing to overuse this technique" about the overmapped triplets (which I think got pointed out by SW bc they occured twice in 2/1 instead of just every now and then), but then just go ham with a stream that is 90% overmapped, like, in 02:21:315 (4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) there are 1/4s at 02:21:918 - 02:21:918 - 02:23:994 - and that's it. All of the other 1/4s are just ridiculously overmapped.
There's also not a single 1/4 at 02:04:842 (1,2,3,4,1) or 02:50:645 (4,5,6,7,1) -, and half of 03:10:065 (3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6) - is overmapped too.
And I see absolutely no reason for 01:46:092 (3,3,3,2,1,2) - being 1/8s, there's not even a single 1/4 on any of them, and just mapping some random sounds with 1/8 just bc you feel like it is just ?!
Is this extreme overmapping really being accepted nowadays? I don't see much relation to the song anymore, why choose a particular song to map when you could just overmap riciulous streams into every song?..
Also, minor but imo unfitting nonetheless, 02:16:628 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,5) - the music is kinda going half-BPM but you just throw jumps around anyways, I don't think that represents the music very well
00:03:235 (3) - 00:07:520 (3) - For the rest of the intro you have NCs every 2/1 (which is insanely much tbh), these two not being NCd is pretty inconsistent - Either NC those too or just keep the general NCing to every measure, when you overdo it like that it doesn't really serve any purpose anymore imo
Something "playing fine" does not mean it fits the song, 1/4s playing nice doesn't mean that it fits at all, and this is just plain wrong snapping. And 00:04:708 (2,1) just feels overdone, (1) is in no way significantly more intense than any other beat to justify that enormous spacing
Generally I like how you say "I don't think it's a good thing to overuse this technique" about the overmapped triplets (which I think got pointed out by SW bc they occured twice in 2/1 instead of just every now and then), but then just go ham with a stream that is 90% overmapped, like, in 02:21:315 (4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) there are 1/4s at 02:21:918 - 02:21:918 - 02:23:994 - and that's it. All of the other 1/4s are just ridiculously overmapped.
There's also not a single 1/4 at 02:04:842 (1,2,3,4,1) or 02:50:645 (4,5,6,7,1) -, and half of 03:10:065 (3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6) - is overmapped too.
And I see absolutely no reason for 01:46:092 (3,3,3,2,1,2) - being 1/8s, there's not even a single 1/4 on any of them, and just mapping some random sounds with 1/8 just bc you feel like it is just ?!
Is this extreme overmapping really being accepted nowadays? I don't see much relation to the song anymore, why choose a particular song to map when you could just overmap riciulous streams into every song?..
Also, minor but imo unfitting nonetheless, 02:16:628 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,5) - the music is kinda going half-BPM but you just throw jumps around anyways, I don't think that represents the music very well
00:03:235 (3) - 00:07:520 (3) - For the rest of the intro you have NCs every 2/1 (which is insanely much tbh), these two not being NCd is pretty inconsistent - Either NC those too or just keep the general NCing to every measure, when you overdo it like that it doesn't really serve any purpose anymore imo
Unfortunately, just because the music itself presents a beat pattern that plays badly doesn't mean you can ignore it. We as mappers are, and should be, restrained to an extent by the music we map. If you have to make 1/3 kick sliders to make that part readable, well, you'll just have to do it, even if it kills momentum and energy.
There should be no exceptions to outright following the music. Mapping, in general, is about interpreting what is already in the music. It is not about making your own rhythms or making cool buzz sliders.
And we all work hard in our own ways, the amount of effort you've put in thus far shouldn't be used as an excuse. Fix up the small stuff and it'll get ranked. If you're mad that small stuff keeps getting found, get better modders. I'll be happy to go over the set, if you'll have me, but I'm not a BN so i can't rebubble it.
There should be no exceptions to outright following the music. Mapping, in general, is about interpreting what is already in the music. It is not about making your own rhythms or making cool buzz sliders.
And we all work hard in our own ways, the amount of effort you've put in thus far shouldn't be used as an excuse. Fix up the small stuff and it'll get ranked. If you're mad that small stuff keeps getting found, get better modders. I'll be happy to go over the set, if you'll have me, but I'm not a BN so i can't rebubble it.
Topic Starter
edit: I'll re-answer later actually maybe. Maybe not I'm sorry but when I read this:
I just don't know what to say... It fits perfectly to me. To me, this section is the highlight of the whole map... If you don't like it fine, but don't come here to ask a DQ because you dont "think it reprensents the music well" for this case you can map your own set. really. I think this is really inapropriate.Bonsai wrote:
Also, minor but imo unfitting nonetheless, 02:16:628 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,5) - the music is kinda going half-BPM but you just throw jumps around anyways, I don't think that represents the music very well
Isn't that what Tengaku did? I'm pretty sure that's what Tengaku did lol
That was just one minor thing I noticed when looking at it, that's not what I'm getting worked up about / asking a DQ for, I just wanted to mention it D:Yales wrote:
edit: I'll re-answer later actually maybe. Maybe not I'm sorry but when I read this:I just don't know what to say... It fits perfectly to me. To me, this section is the highlight of the whole map... If you don't like it fine, but don't come here to ask a DQ because you dont "think it reprensents the music well" for this case you can map your own set. really. I think this is really inapropriate.Bonsai wrote:
Also, minor but imo unfitting nonetheless, 02:16:628 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,5) - the music is kinda going half-BPM but you just throw jumps around anyways, I don't think that represents the music very well
Topic Starter
But, if you can't see what I even prefer on this map, how can I even explain you the other points? I think you just didn't get the whole idea of my mapping. And... before it pops up (I know this community now) don't even tell me "your point is just to overmapped" otherwise I would have incorporate this map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/291154Bonsai wrote:
That was just one minor thing I noticed when looking at it, that's not what I'm getting worked up about / asking a DQ for, I just wanted to mention it D:
The fact of the matter is, what I linked is a DQable offense pending what should be done about it. The rest comes down to personal issues (well, the buzz sliders are pretty damn questionable).
There is a measure where you are using the wrong snapping. This is unrankable.
I can't believe that this even has the potential to be argued over. DQ, fix it, requalify. If the DQers refuse to recheck your map then they're doing their job wrong.
For what it's worth, the only time I think using the wrong snapping in terms of 1/3 vs 1/4 is when the music has a 1/6 quad and it is mapped as a triple. That is the only case. Period.
Yales wrote:
I think you just didn't get the whole idea of my mapping. And... before it pops up (I know this community now) don't even tell me "your point is just to overmapped" otherwise I would have incorporate this map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/291154
Didn't Loctav say something about not using other maps as justification for other maps? And Tengaku was a 252 bpm mashfest that makes little to no sense in general. Comparing one measure in this map to the entirety of Tengaku seems like a horrible idea.Okoratu wrote:
Isn't that what Tengaku did? I'm pretty sure that's what Tengaku did lol
There is a measure where you are using the wrong snapping. This is unrankable.
I can't believe that this even has the potential to be argued over. DQ, fix it, requalify. If the DQers refuse to recheck your map then they're doing their job wrong.
For what it's worth, the only time I think using the wrong snapping in terms of 1/3 vs 1/4 is when the music has a 1/6 quad and it is mapped as a triple. That is the only case. Period.
Topic Starter
Um... If it gets DQ, I'm not fixing this for your pretty eyes. There's NO WAY I''ll change it for something that doesn't match me. But I'm willing to remove Freeze diff, and make the set go for ranked just like that (I've always said it).Shiirn wrote:
I can't believe that this even has the potential to be argued over. DQ, fix it, requalify. If the DQers refuse to recheck your map then they're doing their job wrong.
Also, the stream has already been checked and approved by Desperate-kun
And Bonsai, once more when I see this:
I think you're just missing the whole point of it. And I even feel you checked the map without even listening to the music. Like you just checked it to check mistake without having a global look on the actual map with what I wanted to show with those sliders.Bonsai wrote:
And I see absolutely no reason for 01:46:092 (3,3,3,2,1,2) - being 1/8s, there's not even a single 1/4 on any of them, and just mapping some random sounds with 1/8 just bc you feel like it is just ?!
Maybe you think it's cool to map precisely each beat without trying to go further by representing the music in your own way. Ok but that's not my case so don't inflict your point of view to others...
Some people (seem a majority who checked it) like my style as well as this map I won't change it.
Can confirm, it's 1/3.
lol? if you are saying that the snap should be correct at the stream, then the snap should be correct at any case, dont come to put your own subjective rules about snapping (which don't make sense), if you allow 1/6 quads to be mapped as 1/4 triplets you can't complain about 1/6 streams being mapped as 1/4 tbh...Shiirn wrote:
For what it's worth, the only time I think using the wrong snapping in terms of 1/3 vs 1/4 is when the music has a 1/6 quad and it is mapped as a triple. That is the only case. Period.
Anyways I agree with the stream, just use repeat slider instead, you don't lose too much for changing a single stream or make a consensus with QAT team. (even tho was a common practice to replace 1/6s with 1/4 streams)
The major difference in my one-off exception is that it is technically undermapping a quad that wouldn't fit with the rest of the song (i'm not talking 1/6 like furioso melodia, but 1/6 like in a breakcore map where there's maybe 1-2 1/6 rolls in the entire map)
It took me some listening, but also confirming it is 1/3.
However its really quiet, barely audible in fact.
I would definitely not use 1/4 if even 1/3 is barely audible (mainly because there IS no 1/4) but there are clear oppurtunities for some 1/2 to give a small break to the players streaming or a chance for 1/3 reverses instead so it doesn't put them off.
However its really quiet, barely audible in fact.
I would definitely not use 1/4 if even 1/3 is barely audible (mainly because there IS no 1/4) but there are clear oppurtunities for some 1/2 to give a small break to the players streaming or a chance for 1/3 reverses instead so it doesn't put them off.
Topic Starter
. Seem other opinions are useless so removing screenshots.
Whether something is overmapped or not is not a subjective question, either there is a beat there or not. Whether it feels good to have something mapped there is an entirely different thing, and players without any knowledge of mapping will find the most stupid maps good as long as they are playable (not saying your map is stupid, just saying that player's opinions don't mean anything)
I like how you're bringing "If you map could fit in other songs with the same BPM, then your map is bad" when you are literally overmapping tons of stuff just to make it exciting to play. Your triplets and streams would fit in any other song just as well simply because they aren't even existing in this song in the first place.
"I even feel you checked the map without even listening to the music." Yeah right, that's why I'm pointing out overmaps. ok
I know what you want to represent with those sliders and other overmaps of all sorts, I just think that overmapping is a very bad way to do that. There are thousands of ways to emphasize everything you want without resorting to overmapping, and that's what I want to encourage, because it seems like you are just overmapping to make the map be exciting when that could be done in so many other ways.
And yeah, starting to tell us your reasons for all those sliders and overmaps instead of "I think it fits" would be a great way to start rational discussion too btw
I like how you're bringing "If you map could fit in other songs with the same BPM, then your map is bad" when you are literally overmapping tons of stuff just to make it exciting to play. Your triplets and streams would fit in any other song just as well simply because they aren't even existing in this song in the first place.
"I even feel you checked the map without even listening to the music." Yeah right, that's why I'm pointing out overmaps. ok
I know what you want to represent with those sliders and other overmaps of all sorts, I just think that overmapping is a very bad way to do that. There are thousands of ways to emphasize everything you want without resorting to overmapping, and that's what I want to encourage, because it seems like you are just overmapping to make the map be exciting when that could be done in so many other ways.
And yeah, starting to tell us your reasons for all those sliders and overmaps instead of "I think it fits" would be a great way to start rational discussion too btw
Topic Starter
I wanted to do it, but your points totally demotivated me. Anyway that's what I'm trying to do in #modhelp, I'll give a sum upBonsai wrote:
And yeah, starting to tell us your reasons for all those sliders and overmaps instead of "I think it fits" would be a great way to start rational discussion too btw
01:46:092 (3,3,3,2,1,2) - are used to simulate hold notes which in this case fits the low pitch of the instruments
02:21:315 (4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2) - overmap in this section fits with the musical intensity and helps with the built up along with the rising pitch
02:25:199 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,1) - unfortunately, this is indeed 1/3, i cant justify this
02:21:315 (4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2) - overmap in this section fits with the musical intensity and helps with the built up along with the rising pitch
02:25:199 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,1) - unfortunately, this is indeed 1/3, i cant justify this
Considering how his buildup is 1/4th using interpreted streams on 1/2 beats I find it PRETTY stupid that we're arguing the section that has MORE BEATS than the previous to be overmapped.
It makes no sense to change that last stream to 1/3rd given how this song was mapped. The mapper obviously knew this and is defending it because if you change it then it just ruins how it plays...
It makes no sense to change that last stream to 1/3rd given how this song was mapped. The mapper obviously knew this and is defending it because if you change it then it just ruins how it plays...
How about you guys wait for the mapper's response before trying to put words in their mouth?
going to bed now hihi, waking up tomorrow will be fun
A 1/2-slider, maybe with one reverse, would be a hold note too, and would not ignore the fact that that 'low' instrument actually has a 1/2-beat inbetween which is being completely ignored this way. Why does it need to be 1/8 when there is no 1/8 in the music?Kibbleru wrote:
01:46:092 (3,3,3,2,1,2) - are used to simulate hold notes which in this case fits the low pitch of the instruments
And the intensity could not have been represented in any other way, a way that would represent the song's rhythms more accurately? Why do you need to invent beats to the song in order for it to fit the song? There is no buildup noticable in the map as everything is spaced the same, and streams aren't notably longer towards the end or beginning or anything like that. Also, why is the supposed buildup more intense than the part it builds up to then?Kibbleru wrote:
02:21:315 (4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2) - overmap in this section fits with the musical intensity and helps with the built up along with the rising pitch
It doesn't seem like he's 'ovbiously' knowing that when all he says is "I asked players and they said 1/4 is fine". There is always a way to map it fitting to the rest of the map, after all, it is an element of the song, and the map is / should be based on the song, so if something fits in the song, how can it not fit the map? (maybe because the rest didn't fit that well in the first place?!? deep thoughts ikr)Xexxar wrote:
It makes no sense to change that last stream to 1/3rd given how this song was map. The mapper obviously knew this and is defending it because if you change it then it just ruins how it plays...
Is a discussion anyone can bring their opinion, not only the mapper (since is a community discussion).Bonsai wrote:
How about you guys wait for the mapper's response before trying to put words in their mouth?
Anyways Yales is doing something at the 1/3 part, lets hope this can be resolved sooner
I'll edit this with some suggestion for that part.
Topic Starter
I found the way Shiirn asked me to change it (instead of "suggesting" it) wayyyyyy to harsh for something that is, to me debatable (as I said and showed, some people such as myself, think it's actually fitting and sounds good). But at least he gave me an idea of how I could do it, I appreciate.Bonsai wrote:
not saying your map is stupid, just saying that player's opinions don't mean anything) That's pretty good to mention, because when you say that my overmapping or w/e are "ridiculous" this is the message you're bringing.
I like how you're bringing "If you map could fit in other songs with the same BPM, then your map is bad" when you are literally overmapping tons of stuff just to make it exciting to play. Your triplets and streams would fit in any other song just as well simply because they aren't even existing in this song in the first place. Actually this map is way easier than what most mappers would make nowadays for a song like that, so saying I mapped this way to make it exciting is so-so.
"I even feel you checked the map without even listening to the music." Yeah right, that's why I'm pointing out overmaps. ok
I know what you want to represent with those sliders and other overmaps of all sorts, I just think that overmapping is a very bad way to do that. There are thousands of ways to emphasize everything you want without resorting to overmapping, and that's what I want to encourage, because it seems like you are just overmapping to make the map be exciting when that could be done in so many other ways. But what if it fits to me? I mean.. My favourite mappers tend to do that as well, I have more faith in them than 2 or 3 modders.
A 1/2-slider, maybe with one reverse, would be a hold note too, and would not ignore the fact that that 'low' instrument actually has a 1/2-beat inbetween which is being completely ignored this way. Why does it need to be 1/8 when there is no 1/8 in the music? I don't even want to asnwer that because this is way too subjective, the music is defenitely not flat 1/1 or 1/2. To me if you map like this you miss a chance to show the potential of those sounds my sliders are following
It doesn't seem like he's 'ovbiously' knowing that when all he says is "I asked players and they said 1/4 is fine". The question was already mentioned (on another stream actually) and from that I asked multiple people to be sure of myself. At the end Desperate-kun checked the streams and said: " I really like the 'overmapped' stream and the 1/8 gimmicks you used, they fit the song well for me, I wouldn't worry about those. " So no, your point of view isn't general.
(maybe because the rest didn't fit that well in the first place?!? deep thoughts ikr) Actually no, to me 1/4 fits great, and I really, sincerly doubt you found this part was 1/3 by looking the map at first sight and without deleting the whole stream put the audio at 25% speed etc... Like "it's so obvious it's 1/3.."
Your point of view is welcome. But I won't change my style because of it. As I said (or as I wanted to say lol) the feedbacks I got from some specific mappers have way more impact than some random modders (which are, don't get me wrong, interesting to hear, but won't necessarily make a difference).
After that, I, at least, tried to make something with those 1/3. But first off, even if the beats are 1/3 I still think there's a drumroll behind. Like, I'm sorry but it's not crystal-clear it's 1/3. When I hear sounds like 02:25:467 (5) - it's not in my 1/3 mapping dictionary. Then the melody is sticked on 1/2 02:25:601 (7) - . So unless you want to burst some 336 bpm... Oh I could add reverse but it would feel way too slow compared to the whole pacing, and here comes the last point which is a sum up of all those points: The fact that the music isn't obvious 1/3, the fact it's right at the middle of a stream section it makes those 1/3 totally awakward to play and totally breaks the flow of the whole section as they are totally unexpected. And I mean... it fits to me and I'm not like the only one who will agree with that sooo I don't get why I have to change it as it isn't obvious and actually help the player in the process.
Natsu if you can bring some suggestions it'll be with pleasure I'll check them, but meanwhile I'm fine with its current state.
I don't want to offense anyone but I think this is a pretty dumb statement since you get inspired by other maps while mapping.. (after that it's up to you to know what's fitting or not but it becomes subjective).Shiirn wrote:
Didn't Loctav say something about not using other maps as justification for other maps?
is how I'd map it
edit: actually this fits the synth better
Topic Starter
Thanks for your suggestion, really much appreciated. But then it doesn't follow the melody, and the last downbeat not being hit isn't smthing I like.Liiraye wrote:
http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it
edit: actually this fits the synth better
Also, we shouldn't forget that if there's kick sliders here 02:25:735 (1,2,1,2) - it's because the music gets more intense in this whole section.
Therefore since it seems we don't need the thoughts of players (as they could "simply mash their keyboard" mhmh), we should just follow the music in a way that it makes sense I found this meanwhile http://puu.sh/nEBoW/d275bec69e.jpg (I'm dead serious about this btw). I mean pace seems approrpiate, most audible beats (I'll keep saying there's a drumroll behind) are followed too. I'm like why not. Or can I ask someone to edit mp3? Pretty sure it's possible to be fixed this way. I mean it's not like we would actually hear something different ...
if it come to that I can do that for you probably.Yales wrote:
Thanks for your suggestion, really much appreciated. But then it doesn't follow the melody, and the last downbeat not being hit isn't smthing I like.Liiraye wrote:
http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it
edit: actually this fits the synth better
Also, we shouldn't forget that if there's kick sliders here 02:25:735 (1,2,1,2) - it's because the music gets more intense in this whole section.
Therefore since it seems we don't need the thoughts of players (as they could "simply mash their keyboard" mhmh), we should just follow the music in a way that it makes sense I found this meanwhile http://puu.sh/nEBoW/d275bec69e.jpg (I'm dead serious about this btw). I mean pace seems approrpiate, most audible beats (I'll keep saying there's a drumroll behind) are followed too. I'm like why not. Or can I ask someone to edit mp3? Pretty sure it's possible to be fixed this way. I mean it's not like we would actually hear something different ...
Just dropping my opinion, this is definitely 1/3 from 02:25:199 - to 02:26:270 -
You're following a particular sound for 02:24:128 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2) - and it's 1/4 here. There is the same sound from 02:25:199 - to 02:26:270 - but it's 1/3. You should make things consistent.
Even if you believe that 1/4 fits this part better, (tbh me too). A map must follow the song beforeall, it includes that everything must be snapped in time.
It already happened to me when i was mapping and ranking Installation, but songs are sometimes weird
You're following a particular sound for 02:24:128 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2) - and it's 1/4 here. There is the same sound from 02:25:199 - to 02:26:270 - but it's 1/3. You should make things consistent.
Even if you believe that 1/4 fits this part better, (tbh me too). A map must follow the song beforeall, it includes that everything must be snapped in time.
It already happened to me when i was mapping and ranking Installation, but songs are sometimes weird
isn't that pic you did like making a 1/8 stream on a 1/4? using 1/6 triples on 1/3 notes...Yales wrote:
Thanks for your suggestion, really much appreciated. But then it doesn't follow the melody, and the last downbeat not being hit isn't smthing I like.Liiraye wrote:
http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it
edit: actually this fits the synth better
Also, we shouldn't forget that if there's kick sliders here 02:25:735 (1,2,1,2) - it's because the music gets more intense in this whole section.
Therefore since it seems we don't need the thoughts of players (as they could "simply mash their keyboard" mhmh), we should just follow the music in a way that it makes sense I found this meanwhile http://puu.sh/nEBoW/d275bec69e.jpg (I'm dead serious about this btw). I mean pace seems approrpiate, most audible beats (I'll keep saying there's a drumroll behind) are followed too. I'm like why not. Or can I ask someone to edit mp3? Pretty sure it's possible to be fixed this way. I mean it's not like we would actually hear something different ...
generally a rule of thumb is to start a stance shift with sliders/repeat sliders so that the player doesn't get suddenly thrown off by going from 1/4 to 1/3, especially in a fast map like this in the middle of stream (not sure how much good this will do in scorev2 tho lol)
since the 1/3 is hard to hear, I'd suggest following the synths as I did, since they are more audible than the 1/3 while playing. Try it out and see what you think, good luck regardless!
Topic Starter
No it's mapped full 1/3 with 1/6 triples to follow the melody. Since it seems it will get dq for rhythm problem (without taking into account how smooth it is for the player) I wouldn't care so much about how hard it is to hit some 336 BPM. After all. The music allows it.Liiraye wrote:
isn't that pic you did like making a 1/8 stream on a 1/4? using 1/6 triples on 1/3 notes...
generally a rule of thumb is to start a stance shift with sliders/repeat sliders so that the player doesn't get suddenly thrown off by going from 1/4 to 1/3, especially in a fast map like this in the middle of stream (not sure how much good this will do in scorev2 tho lol)
since the 1/3 is hard to hear, I'd suggest following the synths as I did, since they are more audible than the 1/3 while playing. Try it out and see what you think, good luck regardless!
I tried your suggestion but as I pointed out there's a few things that bother me a little bit. It was the MOST intense part of the whole map. Understand that putting 1/3 slider reverse after that feels a bit empty.
"Since 1/3 is hard to hear" ... Ya well I don't even want to put those 1/3 so why shall I even make something to prepare the player for it? If you think it needs DQ cause it so obvious the snapping is wrong I'm gonna put some REAL 1/3. No excuse. (Shiirn and Bonsai clearly told me that players' opinion doesn't matter anyway... you made a nice catch there lol).
On the other hand seems someone could edit MP3... :3 Xexxar <3 (for what it's worth ... I mean CB agree it's 1/3 but also agree 1/4 fits better...)
It's somehow weird QATs haven't come yet, even after there was a healthy discussion here and there are few points to fix. o.o
Topic Starter
"to fix" ... mhhhhhhhh not sure about that tbh XDHappyRocket88 wrote:
It's somehow weird QATs haven't come yet, even after there was a healthy discussion here and there are few points to fix. o.o
because there are no qat
I guess I should take this mapset out of the Qualified category and let the discussion continue before a conclusion from the community is drawn.
-------
As for 02:25:199 - to 02:26:270 - , I have reservations about putting them as 1/4 streams for the sake of playability. Following the music is the basic essence of the game. So, probably change the snaps?
I hope everything onwards is constructive. Good luck with the requalification, Yales.
I actually agree. At least the inaudible hitsounds should be fixed before moving on.Smoothie World wrote:
00:32:699 - Does anyone else think the hitsounds hear are nearly impossible to hear? I have mine pretty loud and I had trouble hearing them
00:04:708 (2,1) - Why is this 6.71x spacing? I don't get it. At 00:06:851 (2,1) you have 3.5x and 00:08:994 (2,1) is even smaller, meanwhile the song is getting more and more intense.
00:12:811 - You don't have a triple on this tick anywhere else in the song. It's mapped to nothing.
-------
As for 02:25:199 - to 02:26:270 - , I have reservations about putting them as 1/4 streams for the sake of playability. Following the music is the basic essence of the game. So, probably change the snaps?
I hope everything onwards is constructive. Good luck with the requalification, Yales.
Topic Starter
DQ #2
It's not inaudible at all.
40% is enough and proportionate with all my sections.
About the jump I already explained why I think it's fine. And I definitely won't touch it. 6.00 when the SV is 0.5 won't kill anyone btw.
Fixed the stream, it is now nicely snapped . (Since it seems they were like -so obvious-). The triples are for the melody. Better follow everything properly right. (If you disagree with it. After all the craps you said about players' opinion don't matter you better have some massive arguments about why I should change it). Also, I recieved a few complaints that my map was too easy for a snowdrive, it will also fix this in the process. Those 1/3 beats were a nice catch ! Thanks!
Here's a few things that I see coming and I already have the answers:
- But it's too hard --- I don't care so much about that.
(" just saying that player's opinions don't mean anything" - Bonsai) Also Shiirn told me exactly the same thing in #modhelp
- But it's unexpected --- the 1/3 in the music themselves are unexpected...how can I be more accurate then? (I mean this is at least unexpected to me... this point coming out for the first time after a few 50 mods lol)
More to come.
---
KD goes for being supportive (it's way more helpful than any mod, just sayin)
It's not inaudible at all.
40% is enough and proportionate with all my sections.
About the jump I already explained why I think it's fine. And I definitely won't touch it. 6.00 when the SV is 0.5 won't kill anyone btw.
Fixed the stream, it is now nicely snapped . (Since it seems they were like -so obvious-). The triples are for the melody. Better follow everything properly right. (If you disagree with it. After all the craps you said about players' opinion don't matter you better have some massive arguments about why I should change it). Also, I recieved a few complaints that my map was too easy for a snowdrive, it will also fix this in the process. Those 1/3 beats were a nice catch ! Thanks!
Here's a few things that I see coming and I already have the answers:
- But it's too hard --- I don't care so much about that.
(" just saying that player's opinions don't mean anything" - Bonsai) Also Shiirn told me exactly the same thing in #modhelp
- But it's unexpected --- the 1/3 in the music themselves are unexpected...how can I be more accurate then? (I mean this is at least unexpected to me... this point coming out for the first time after a few 50 mods lol)
More to come.
---
KD goes for being supportive (it's way more helpful than any mod, just sayin)
Don't feel offended from people modding your map. If you think they are rude, don't make a rude reply, contact a moderator instead. If you think they are talking nonsense, don't make a nonsense reply. If you run into a situation where you don't know what to do with your map, take a break for a few days and think about it carefully before making hasty decisions.
You don't have to fix things you don't agree with if you give proper reasoning for it. You and me know that the stream thing was much better before you changed it. Personally I didn't notice the stream wasn't on correct snap all the time I modded the map, because the music is pretty noisy and the stream sounded and played fine ingame. That's also the reason why I would say using 1/4 is fine there as a simplification. (Simplification because it is much easier and intuitive to play, even though 1/4 is more dense than 1/3). If you think the same then explain it exactly like that, short but reasonable. Don't write huge paragraphs about how you could make it even worse. Don't try to be ironic by saying you don't care about the players, because I know you do.
Do what you want with the map, just know that I am not willing to rebubble it with the 1/6 patterns.
You don't have to fix things you don't agree with if you give proper reasoning for it. You and me know that the stream thing was much better before you changed it. Personally I didn't notice the stream wasn't on correct snap all the time I modded the map, because the music is pretty noisy and the stream sounded and played fine ingame. That's also the reason why I would say using 1/4 is fine there as a simplification. (Simplification because it is much easier and intuitive to play, even though 1/4 is more dense than 1/3). If you think the same then explain it exactly like that, short but reasonable. Don't write huge paragraphs about how you could make it even worse. Don't try to be ironic by saying you don't care about the players, because I know you do.
Do what you want with the map, just know that I am not willing to rebubble it with the 1/6 patterns.
So it's fine to map 1/4 on 1/3 because it's simplifying for the player? I mean of course it's intuitive to keep streaming after such a long stream, but that doesn't mean it's any more rankable. There are tonnes of maps with mixed in 1/3 (I happen to map quite a few myself) where you have to compromise your patterning in order to follow the music to the form it was composed. Is his 1/6 patterns any different from that just because it made the map harder to play or because it's stupid? Seems like anything goes if it's easier and intuitive, and I believe mappers like yales is getting a lot of mixed signals here. Please be more clear and objective.
Just checking so I can add this to my rewritten version of the ranking criteria
Just checking so I can add this to my rewritten version of the ranking criteria
It depends. The reason we follow snaps is to make the hitsounds fitting and intuitive in gameplay. In this case 1/4 doesn't sound off to me at all due to the noisyness of the song. It is a subjective topic really. I am not trying to be objective, we are discussing a gameplay aspect here that is nothing about objectivity.
There are some cases where it doesn't make sense to discuss about wether snappings are worth fixing or not (for example if you have a short repeated slider anyways, and it's on wrong snap, you can just change the snap without changing the gameplay experience). But in cases like this it's a critical topic.
Also, Yales could just have the mp3 edited so the sounds are on 1/4, and nobody would even notice the difference ingame (or when listening to the map at normal speed). So it doesn't even change anything. However, it's an option to satisfy everyone, except those who say mp3s should not be edited for some reason but that is an entirely different topic.
There are some cases where it doesn't make sense to discuss about wether snappings are worth fixing or not (for example if you have a short repeated slider anyways, and it's on wrong snap, you can just change the snap without changing the gameplay experience). But in cases like this it's a critical topic.
Also, Yales could just have the mp3 edited so the sounds are on 1/4, and nobody would even notice the difference ingame (or when listening to the map at normal speed). So it doesn't even change anything. However, it's an option to satisfy everyone, except those who say mp3s should not be edited for some reason but that is an entirely different topic.
If he edits it accordingly I have no issues here. We are talking about the rule saying no unsnapped notes, isn't that as objective as it gets?
Claiming it should be mapped ignoring this rule is a subjective statement. You say it's easier/more intuitive to play, I ask when did we start catering to players instead of striving to do justice to it's composers work & the actual sounds it provides us?
The composer made it 1/3 for a reason. This is for example why sometimes, having empty sliderends is fine because they aren't ignoring the music, instead adding an aspect to it. There's a clear distinction there.
Or am I missing something here?
Claiming it should be mapped ignoring this rule is a subjective statement. You say it's easier/more intuitive to play, I ask when did we start catering to players instead of striving to do justice to it's composers work & the actual sounds it provides us?
The composer made it 1/3 for a reason. This is for example why sometimes, having empty sliderends is fine because they aren't ignoring the music, instead adding an aspect to it. There's a clear distinction there.
Or am I missing something here?
extended sliders are basically the same unsnapped thing... (In most of cases) so being hard rule to snap to the music would kill this tooLiiraye wrote:
If he edits it accordingly I have no issues here. We are talking about the rule saying no unsnapped notes, isn't that as objective as it gets?
Claiming it should be mapped ignoring this rule is a subjective statement. You say it's easier/more intuitive to play, I ask when did we start catering to players instead of striving to do justice to it's composers work & the actual sounds it provides us?
The composer made it 1/3 for a reason. This is for example why sometimes, having empty sliderends is fine because they aren't ignoring the music, instead adding an aspect to it. There's a clear distinction there.
Or am I missing something here?
, since any defense to them will be subjective as well, so the comparison is almost the same.Anyways Yales, I think using 1/3 sliders jump is the best option you have, is just a tiny section of your map, so I guess making it a bit more comfortable for players will be nice (If you need a bit help with timeline catch me in game), anyways take sometime to think calm about it.
Sure, I understand how you're reasoning, but there's a reason why a high percentage of maps today use, and are allowed to use silenced sliderends in ranked maps, while none use 1/4 streams on a 1/3 section.
So no, it's not the same thing since they don't ignore the music, they add to the gameplay aspect.
There's a clear difference and I hope everyone can see & understand this. If not let's go and unrank every other map we rank today. Hurr
So no, it's not the same thing since they don't ignore the music, they add to the gameplay aspect.
There's a clear difference and I hope everyone can see & understand this. If not let's go and unrank every other map we rank today. Hurr
I'm against using 1/3 slider repeats because yes, they take away from the impact well. But after a few 1/4 sliders its not difficult to transition into a 1/3 stream especially when it starts on a downbeat. However both the composition and 1/6 triples in that section is pretty much unreadable, extreme, and uncalled for, I think you know that. Pretty sure everyone would be happier if you'd just remap the 1/3 section appropriately and push this map forward rather than wasting time trying to spite people with your own creative work.