Feb wrote:

SPOILER

hi m4m from my queue - sorry, I was sick this week so the mod got delayed a bit

[General]
would love to see this ranked soon. Me too !! XD
I nc different than you in higher diffs i notice lol, so uh i'll only point out those who bugged me reading etc.

[Freeze]

1. hp6? You have a lot of 1/4 sliders which give you not enough hp if you hit them and if you miss 2 u ded. jk, its not that harsh but gaining hp again. Gotta think about it, but I think it's pretty much appropriate (it was 8 at the beginning!)
2. 01:11:270 (1,1) - I missread that multiple times to be ctrl+g and it plays more innutitive that way. Aa, I don't think there's a really reading problem here tbh, it flows pretty great imo. I really like the pattern actually, I don't want to change it xD But yes, to be honnest I don't have problem on this one so yep
3. 02:32:431 (5) - current flow suggests ctrl+g as a better solution. I think the pattern flows great!
4. 03:41:271 (1,2,3) - looks very cramped can you give 3 more space maybe? I think that if I would have gave (3) "more space" the flow with 03:41:806 (4) - would be exactly what I don't want. BUT I agree that it wasn't that neat (even though I actually liked the idea of the pattern) so I actually put (3) on the other side of 03:41:271 (1) - and I think it looks and plays way better now!
5. 04:11:271 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - I wondered why u never silenced the ends? I mean u don't have to xd, but the clapping at the ends is super annoying to hear. Just a personal thing tho. Fixed with previous mod ^^ wait.. there's no clapping at the end? Do you think the claps at the beginning of the sldiers are too loud? Or is it ok now? If you come check my answer let me know please xD

[Extra]

1. AR9.3 felt better for me in playtest. Mhh, I don't mind changing it buuut, I don't think it's that much of a difference and now it's proportional between Insane, Extra and Freeze soo, I'd like to keep it if most of people are fine with it.
2. 00:40:869 (1,1,1) - it was actually harder to read for me bcs u ncd this. It's to electrifies the pattern as the music feels really spontaneous! The NC doesn't, indeed, help the reading but I feel that it's kinda the effect I want as well (as long as it's still readable at the end!)
3. 02:03:235 (1,2,3) - I'd reduce the spacing a bit since you have bigger spacing before for 1/1 pause between the notes and suddenly 1/2 snapping with exact same distance might be confusing for some people. Fixed in another way
4. 03:35:913 (1) - make same overlap like 02:44:217 (2) - here? with the slider being after the circle i mean. just a stylish thing lol It was like this but someone suggested me to change it like this and I think it looks way better in gameplay this way! And it "feels" that it flows better this way I think (it's obviously just a feel, the movement is the same).
   
   nice can't find more. Nice, I was a bit worried about this diff as it's the last one I made so I got pretty bored XD

[Insane]

1. 01:38:458 (4) - stack properly. OOPS
2. 03:35:913 (1) - ^ Ah, I prefer the custom stack here ! It's pretty much the same as the one you pointed out in Extra!
   04:02:968 (2) - uhm clap? Fixed!
   04:04:039 (2) - ^same Fixed!
3. 04:13:480 - delete that line it has no effect whatsoever It does, end of the kiai after the fountain :p

[Hard]

1. 00:19:306 (3,4) - imo this flows better with 2 two 1/2 sliders since the sounds you map to occur every 1/2 beat and not 1/1 like 00:18:770 (1,2) - here Right, good point
2. 00:20:913 (1) - tbh i think you should just stay with overlaping this completely like you did 00:14:351 (4,1) - here (just for consistency) But I also did some other customs stacks 02:45:556 (1) - etc. I don't think it's a real problem, those stacks are omnipresent in the set even though they're not always present.
3. 00:33:770 (1) - its funny how this section is actually harder to play than in the hardest diff xd - just bcs you used distance snapping. Mhhh... I kinda feel that if I would stack as I did in Freeze for example, the pattern would be more technique to hit, so actually way harder.
4. 00:55:467 (2,3,4) - it's quite confusing that you use this double stack never again (u kinda have to know it's there if you play hidden) even though it fits the vocal well. Added another one at the beginning by fixing another point, maybe it'll be better then... I agree that it does fit the vocal that's why I don't really want to change it lol
5. 01:15:288 (3) - same like before. same ^
6. 01:50:645 (1) - idk i feel like you should do it like in insane having a reverse here. I know its hard diff, but alone it should be fine. Idea is good but I feel that the slider starting on red tick like this for a hard isn't catchy at all though I prefer keeping this pattern the way it is, just to be safe.
7. 02:45:556 (1) - this barely overlapping here doesn't look good imo, maybe make it like the others or just stack it. Ahh I really like it though XD
8. 03:11:806 (1) - that nc is kinda weird tbh or idk why u ncd this. How about not Ncing this at all? Fixed !
9. 03:23:458 (2,3) - why u change the stlye of how you overlap this? i kinda don't get that It was for dumb reasons, fixed.
10. 03:33:770 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - I'd make 03:33:770 (1,2,3,4) - sliders and 03:34:842 (1,2,3,4) - leave them as circles. You want to emphasize the first ones not as much as the others. You already do that well with the spacing you choose, but I feel like with the sliders it makes it more intiutive for the player. I get what you mean but I don't think that the sliders are fitting that much I'm not sure how to explain it but it feels that the vocal are going a bit out of the constant flow the chorus made here. And I'm showing it with the 1/1 circles.
11. 04:10:199 (1,2) - uh why no whistles when you use them for exact same sound 04:09:931 (4) - here. fixed

nice set - sorry couldn't find more - I guess thats a good thing actually.
feels ready for me - most things are just objectively in my opinion.

Good Luck! o/

Thank you very much! Your mod was really helpful!
I hope you got better! o/

Feb wrote:

04:11:271 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - that's what i meant! yep that's cool now.
I meant the sliderends hitting on the next head produced a "claping" sound which was not nice for the ears, but now its cool :^D

Milan- wrote:

SPOILER

freeze
02:24:261 - before this point there isnt streams at all, there are some triples like 02:21:918 - 02:22:052 - could be a stream but rest is just overmapped so heavily... and from 02:25:199 - drums sound more like 1/3 tbh you can hear 2 beats between upbeats, not 3. same for extra
02:43:413 (1,2,3) - no need to end on 1/8, 1/4 is enough at this high bpm. adding some more ms to acc is better than this tbh and simlar patterns the same
02:04:842 (1,2,3,4,1) - 02:46:360 (3,4,5,6,1) - 02:50:645 (4,5,6,7,1) - overmap, triple is enough
03:14:485 - same as before, there are some triples and like 1 possible stream, rest is just overmapped, you should know why. same for extra

extra
00:10:199 - increase volumen on all diffs here, like freeze is fine. right now is basically unaudible

insane
01:58:413 (1,1,1) - sounds much better like http://puu.sh/nmkG1/b238cd15f1.jpg tbhxd right now the main melody is stopping in every slider, which doesnt sound good

normal
00:53:056 (3) - - and the other one after - dont use multi reverse at this difficulty, and even high bpm. you can get the same effect with 1 reverse less and plays much much better

most of those sections with lines <40~50% volumen are quite hard to hear cuz you use hitsounds that are sooo similar to the music (in addition that the music is loud lul). increasing those lines by 10% would be niceeee

i just pointed out the most noticiable stuff so ya, if you don't want to change the overmapped parts, i'll say glllll

Thank you very much for checking the set (sorry for the spam as well haha)

Soooo,
About Freeze, I'm pretty sure the streams aren't overmapped. There's a drumroll (This is also why you can't say if it's 1/4, 1/3 or 1/2). But there is clearly a drumroll. That part is really intense so EVEN IF there wasn't a drumroll, the part would call for a stream as it DOESN'T sound overmapped here. I was pretty sure of myself but I still collectedlots of opinions to be really sure from average players, to top players, including mappers, as well as people who has a really nice approach of music in general), Answers? 100% told me it's fine. (I have the screenshots if needed xD)

About this one 02:05:177 (2,3,4,1) - There's no beat, indeed, but considering the "background" of the music I think it's totally appropriate. Same goes for 03:14:150 (2,3,4,5,6) -
Then about 02:50:645 (4,5,6,7,1) - and 02:46:360 (3,4,5,6,1) - The explanation I'm going to make also apply for the points above. Well, this one is overmapped. Yet I don't like this expression as I don't think it sounds like some 1/16 on a calm 130 bpm songs. And also, the fact that you're suggesting me to change for triples proves that the definition itself of "overmapped" is really subjective But I don't think it's a bad thing to map as I did. Overmapping this way can add some speed up to the rhythme to help you show what you want to show in the music. I can give you a few maps that used this techniques and are still big big masterpiece! ( Yousei Teikoku - Hades: The Rise -> (Talk about Bikko's and thelewa's score: 3x 100 on a map full of 5 circles burst totally overmapped [I guess it didn't sound that bad right]). And please, PER PITY, don't tell me "but it's old" Because the last thing I want to map, is those maps full of triangles that all look the same nowadays. )
So.. Yes, to me, they keep the speed and doesn't even sound awful or something. I didn't overused them and placed at some wisely choosen spots. So tell me, why shall I change something that I like for the sake of a word which has a definition that nobody in this game seem to get???

About the 1/8 sliders. They're clearly not 1/4. I tried and it sounds really, really bad. I also think that, considering the burst of the music, 1/8 is more approriate and accurate to the music. Players are also used to hit 1/8 sliders for this kind of sound.

After that, gotta fix the hitsounds as requested, interesting point.

Also fixed this part 01:58:413 (1) - on insane as suggested

Fixed the reverses on Normal diff.

To finish, I'd like to thank you a lot for the time you spent as well on this set (it's the second time you're modding it!!) and I'd also like to thank you for accepting my request to check it!!

blissfulyoshi wrote:

SPOILER

M4M of 1 diff...

And sorry, I know I'm not a good enough player to play this diff that well, but I think what I said applies. (Only get 20-30 combos)

Freeze:
00:08:458 (2,1) - why is the spacing so small between these 2 compared to all the previous combos? To me, what it matters on this pattern is that the spacing after the slider is x2. Before, it can be x4 or x1 the impact stays the same in my point of view.
00:08:994 (2,1) - ^
00:30:288 (1,1,1,2,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,1,2) - Felt weird to go something super easy like a short slider stack all the way back to full blown jumps when the music doesn't really change much. I don't think the sliders stacked are that easy, but it has less movement for sure. Just showing the intensity of the drums, might sound a bit exagerate but I think it's a good transition between 2 totally different sections (not to mention that one of them is really slow :c)
00:32:699 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2) - with your hp7 drain this section really takes away from your hp. Please add more notes or lower the drain Mhh, interesting... I don't dislike drain section, they're part of the challenge (also, from what I can play, that part was passable with hr od10). After that, the hp bar goes down yes, but just before the kick sliders were supposed to made it full. And at the middle of the section there's 3 other kick sliders which makes the hp bar full again. But well, I'm not against lowering the drain, just need a bit more opinions (at the beginning the drain was 8 so.. )
00:50:913 (1,2,3,4) - these sliders are really slow in comparison to the speed needed to do the previous jumps 00:49:842 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3) - You should probably speed them up a bit Mhh.. I feel that the jump just before is too harsh actually, so the slower sliders are kinda welcome (the spacing is the same though so I don't think there's a problem of constanticity!)
01:36:985 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - because of your tick rate 1, this section plays really strangely.With tick rate 1, I just need to do about half the slider to get the 300, wait a period of time to hit 2, and then accelerate to hit 3, and then go slightly slower to hit 1. However, the music mostly has the stresses on 1 or 2 (depending which phrase), which is pretty much the opposite of your pattern. You should probably rearrange these notes. Wooo, I didn't even know that XD I just put tick rate 1 because everyone's doing it XD ! I've learned something. After that I'm not sure to agree with your point. From what I can testplay, as well as the testplays I saw, because the sliders have a high SV the player tends to fully follow it. I think you just stop at the middle of the slider, when they're pretty small/slow. So I don't know, I don't really have this problem tbh. I really like the pattern which might not be that much objective imo XD. I'll keep in mind your opinion for sure though!
02:54:931 (4,1) - this felt a bit weird since I think it is the only slider that leads directly away from the next note in this section. Ruined the flow for me Mhh, that's good to know. But I don't think it kills the flow. To me, it just changes the flow, not in a bad way.
03:43:146 (4) - flows a little bit better if you put 4 under the end of 3 (you can move 5 further to keep the jump distance) Didn't want to put (5) too much away from the next slider, but your point is fair enough, gotta work on that!

Wish I had the skill level to pass this map. It feels fun from my current skill level.

Some interesting points!
Thank you very much!

1. 00:10:467 (1) - 00:10:869 (1) - Removing NC's could help with identifying the rhythm change, since the section here just sounds like two combo's, not 4 lol.
2. 00:15:824 (2,3) - I don't think this jump is warranted...
3. 00:19:306 (5,6,7,8) - Try and emphasize these drum hits more. Make the jump from 00:19:038 (3,4) - smaller because 4 doesn't really fit in... so having the same spacing makes the other circles feel not as important (even though musically theyre much stronger).
4. 00:30:288 (1,1,1) - Idk. This doesn't seem like a good design choice imo .
5. 00:32:699 (1,2,3,1) - etc... This part is really cool though
6. 02:07:119 (2,3,4) - This just looks kinda weird... Can you make the triplet linear?
7. 02:21:315 - 02:24:128 - Yea this still sounds overmapped... The parts that sound warranted are 02:24:328 (4,5,6,7,8,1) - . The rest just a really light and ambiguous drum roll and not something that has a very definitive snapping. It just sounds nothing like 01:24:395 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - and not nearly as distinctly 1/4.
8. 03:11:404 (3,4,5) - Not liking this switch to kicksliders xP. What you did with 03:10:735 (1,2,3,1) - was a lot better imo.
9. 03:14:485 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - There's such a distinct 1/2 rhythm here but your rhythm choice is frankly all over the place here xP.
10. 03:41:672 (3) - Can you position this elsewhere, the position is quite awkward and it feels like you ran out of room or something on the screen xP.
11. 04:09:128 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - Keep your spacing consistent.
12. 04:11:271 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - Okay this just isn't a good way to emphasize those notes imo...

1. 00:14:619 (2,4,2,4) - I don't really see the necessity of these 1/2's... 1/2 sliders would have worked just as well here without feeling forced since there isn't a clear 1/2 beat in the song right here. 00:19:306 (5,6,7,8) - Here is good though since it's well supported.
2. 00:40:869 (1,1,1) - NC spam isn't necessary .
3. 01:26:940 (7,8,9,10,11,1) - The shape of that ending part of the stream just looks quite off :S.
4. 02:02:163 (3,4,5,6) - 1/2 sliders here would help maintain intensity. Right now it just feels empty.
5. 02:35:780 (4,1) - Wish you broke your spacing structure here to create a jump. It just feels really inconsistent compared to 02:37:252 (2,1) -
6. 03:17:967 (1) - No slow slider?
7. 03:27:208 (8,1) - Same as earlier.
8. 03:44:485 (1,2) - Why not Ctrl+G them and follow vocals? It just feels really off right now. I don't even normally map to vocals but they just feel so crucial here.
9. 04:11:270 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - 1/2 sliders to maintain rhythmic density.

1. 00:52:520 (3,4) - You could just use 1/4 repeats here imo. Switching from 1/2 to 1/8 is a bit of a jump in slider-lengths.
2. 01:31:895 (2,3) - This jump isn't emphasizing much, but it's detracting from the next downbeat.
3. 01:35:645 (3,1) - You should space them further if you want a 1/1 gap because this looks like a 1/2 jump atm due to how soon this pattern follows 01:34:842 (1,2) -
4. 02:31:628 (1) - Would look better if you made them mroe parallel (tail and head sections)
5. 02:47:431 (3,4,1,2) - The instruments are at a high pitch here. Idk, for me this means it's still quite intense. Use 1/2 sliders and stuff so it dosn't feel as empty.
6. 03:27:342 (1,2,3,4) - This is so undermapped, makes me sad .
7. 03:34:842 (1,1,1,1) - No need for NC spam here. You don't spam them on Extra or Freeze anyways.

1. 00:08:994 (3,4) - This spacing just looks too close together . You can use a higher spacing here imo.
2. 01:02:699 (1,3) - Can they not be so close? xP. Looks cramped lol.
3. 01:11:003 (4,1) - If you could incorporate this into a blanket, it would look pretty nice.
4. 03:29:217 (6,1,2,3,4) - You ignore the vocals so hard here just to follow a rhythm that is literally the metronome xP. 1 2 3 4.

1. Nothing inherently wrong here, but the diff feels more like a typical Easy with the very occasional 1/2 sliders. It doesn't even contain any 1/2 clicking rhythm. What I mean by 1/2 clicking rhythm is anything that looks something like this in terms of note density. Players are forced to click twice in half a beat.
   
   1/2

   
2. Since none of that even occurs in the Normal, I think theres a rhythm gap between Normal > Hard .

1. 00:57:342 (1) - This wave slider just looks really ugly . There are a variety of ways to do wave sliders, but this technique is best for long wave sliders (spanning more than half the screen)
   
   Do something like this please

   
2. 01:30:556 (1,3) - These sliders not being parallel really hurts the pattern.
3. 02:24:128 (1) - Slider. Okay quite a few of them look off so please fix them.

Monstrata wrote:

SPOILER

[Freeze]

1. 00:10:467 (1) - 00:10:869 (1) - Removing NC's could help with identifying the rhythm change, since the section here just sounds like two combo's, not 4 lol.
2. 00:15:824 (2,3) - I don't think this jump is warranted... It really doesn't destabilize me in gameplay
3. 00:19:306 (5,6,7,8) - Try and emphasize these drum hits more. Make the jump from 00:19:038 (3,4) - smaller because 4 doesn't really fit in... so having the same spacing makes the other circles feel not as important (even though musically theyre much stronger). I think that having a bunch of 1/4 is way more stronger than just increasing spacing. Also, I'd say it's rather the sound of the drums that changes rather than the intensity
4. 00:30:288 (1,1,1) - Idk. This doesn't seem like a good design choice imo . It difinetely is to me.
5. 00:32:699 (1,2,3,1) - etc... This part is really cool though Not sure what's wrong?
6. 02:07:119 (2,3,4) - This just looks kinda weird... Can you make the triplet linear? I think it looks really floyw though
7. 02:21:315 - 02:24:128 - Yea this still sounds overmapped... The parts that sound warranted are 02:24:328 (4,5,6,7,8,1) - . The rest just a really light and ambiguous drum roll and not something that has a very definitive snapping. It just sounds nothing like 01:24:395 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - and not nearly as distinctly 1/4. I asked mutliple people, to be really sure, and they all told me this sounds like a steam, and I agree with them. spamming 1/2 here would just feel way too empy.
8. 03:11:404 (3,4,5) - Not liking this switch to kicksliders xP. What you did with 03:10:735 (1,2,3,1) - was a lot better imo. Not sure to get it?
9. 03:14:485 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - There's such a distinct 1/2 rhythm here but your rhythm choice is frankly all over the place here xP. I'm fine with my rhythm
10. 03:41:672 (3) - Can you position this elsewhere, the position is quite awkward and it feels like you ran out of room or something on the screen xP. It's not positionned out of place..
11. 04:09:128 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - Keep your spacing consistent. Fixed
12. 04:11:271 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - Okay this just isn't a good way to emphasize those notes imo... Why? I think it sounds nice though. And it reproduces the logo of "Omoi".

[Extra]

1. 00:14:619 (2,4,2,4) - I don't really see the necessity of these 1/2's... 1/2 sliders would have worked just as well here without feeling forced since there isn't a clear 1/2 beat in the song right here. 00:19:306 (5,6,7,8) - Here is good though since it's well supported. Same than Freeze, ]I think it's more the sounds of the drums that changed, rather that the intensity.
2. 00:40:869 (1,1,1) - NC spam isn't necessary . It is. To electrfies the pattern
3. 01:26:940 (7,8,9,10,11,1) - The shape of that ending part of the stream just looks quite off :S. Fixed a bit
4. 02:02:163 (3,4,5,6) - 1/2 sliders here would help maintain intensity. Right now it just feels empty. It's to give more impact on 02:03:235 (1) -
5. 02:35:780 (4,1) - Wish you broke your spacing structure here to create a jump. It just feels really inconsistent compared to 02:37:252 (2,1) - Fixed
6. 03:17:967 (1) - No slow slider? No, most people tends to break, or almost break first try on freeze.
7. 03:27:208 (8,1) - Same as earlier. Fixed
8. 03:44:485 (1,2) - Why not Ctrl+G them and follow vocals? It just feels really off right now. I don't even normally map to vocals but they just feel so crucial here. Okay
9. 04:11:270 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - 1/2 sliders to maintain rhythmic density. And my stream with a drumroll but "not a blatant one" were overmapped... I don't understand. Anyway, the whole map is kind of 1/2. Sometimes it's better to make things easier in order to give more impact.

[Insane]

1. 00:52:520 (3,4) - You could just use 1/4 repeats here imo. Switching from 1/2 to 1/8 is a bit of a jump in slider-lengths. I don't know, I'd rather stay constant with the other diff. Not to mention that what I'm trying to show via those sliders is clearly not some 1/4 rhythm.
2. 01:31:895 (2,3) - This jump isn't emphasizing much, but it's detracting from the next downbeat. My bad, got out of place, fixed.
3. 01:35:645 (3,1) - You should space them further if you want a 1/1 gap because this looks like a 1/2 jump atm due to how soon this pattern follows 01:34:842 (1,2) - Right, fixed.
4. 02:31:628 (1) - Would look better if you made them mroe parallel (tail and head sections) Fixed a bit
5. 02:47:431 (3,4,1,2) - The instruments are at a high pitch here. Idk, for me this means it's still quite intense. Use 1/2 sliders and stuff so it dosn't feel as empty. I feel that those 1/1 are another way to show how intense it is, instead of just spamming 1/2 the whole map. Everything is intense in this song anyway. XD
6. 03:27:342 (1,2,3,4) - This is so undermapped, makes me sad . I don't know, focusing on stronger beats. Maybe I'll change it.
7. 03:34:842 (1,1,1,1) - No need for NC spam here. You don't spam them on Extra or Freeze anyways. Talking about intensifying pattern, I like to use every tool at my dispostion.

[Hard]

1. 00:08:994 (3,4) - This spacing just looks too close together . You can use a higher spacing here imo. Fixed just a bit... I guess
2. 01:02:699 (1,3) - Can they not be so close? xP. Looks cramped lol. Same
3. 01:11:003 (4,1) - If you could incorporate this into a blanket, it would look pretty nice. Okay, Fixed
4. 03:29:217 (6,1,2,3,4) - You ignore the vocals so hard here just to follow a rhythm that is literally the metronome xP. 1 2 3 4. lol, idk, maybe I'll change it.

[Normal]

1. Nothing inherently wrong here, but the diff feels more like a typical Easy with the very occasional 1/2 sliders. It doesn't even contain any 1/2 clicking rhythm. What I mean by 1/2 clicking rhythm is anything that looks something like this in terms of note density. Players are forced to click twice in half a beat.
   
   1/2

   
2. Since none of that even occurs in the Normal, I think theres a rhythm gap between Normal > Hard .
   Blame the star rating.

[Easy]

1. 00:57:342 (1) - This wave slider just looks really ugly . There are a variety of ways to do wave sliders, but this technique is best for long wave sliders (spanning more than half the screen) Fixed, looks way better now *-*
   
   Do something like this please

   
2. 01:30:556 (1,3) - These sliders not being parallel really hurts the pattern. You mean ctrl+h? I don't know know I prefer this way I think, I don't really see what's wrong.
3. 02:24:128 (1) - Slider. Okay quite a few of them look off so please fix them. Yep, fixed them all

Alright, good luck! Ye... I need it.

Thanks for the mod!

1. I know from your mods that you are a fan of high AR, however I really think some of the ARs in this mapset are set too high. Mappers often think high BPM requires high AR but in reality your mapping style isn't hard to read at all with slightly lower AR, I would even say it reads better. What I suggest is the following:
   
   1. Extra could use AR9, only some simple jump and stream patterns here.
   2. Insane is what bothers me the most. AR9 for a map like this? AR8.5 is much better here if you ask me.
   3. Hard could also use AR7.5 or even AR7.

1. 00:32:699 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Actually this section is very boring to play for this difficulty level. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of undermapping and the rhythm is perfectly fine here it's just that this section requires almost no cursor movement due to slider leniency, and the movement it requires seems to come at the wrong times. These groups of objects 00:33:503 (3,1,2) - 00:34:574 (3,1,2) - etc. all play like a one-measure long stack and the only emphasis in this section is on those beats 00:33:503 - 00:34:574 - etc. What I would recommend is either having a jump before the big white ticks instead (which would mean stacking two circles under the slider and then have the jumps) or replacing the 1/2-sliders with circles somehow. Just try to create a more interesting cursor movement that emphasizes the music better.
2. 01:36:985 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - So why does this pattern emphasize every second white tick (by repetition) when the music clearly repeats every 3 white ticks.. You did it much better all the other times this part comes up in the music so this one really sticks out and should be changed somehow. Try to making something similar to 02:35:913 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - ?
3. 03:11:136 (1) - Hmm this slider fits the music well however I think it harms playability. This map is supposed to be difficult to play however what I enjoy about it is that it generally has very simple patterns that are easy to understand, it doesn't throw around with weird spacing or rhythms etc. This slider is the only thing in the map that doesn't fit this rhythm simplicity because it starts on a red tick and is located in the middle of a 1/4-section. Getting into streams / 1/4-rhythms after red-tick-sliders is kind of hard and I recommend you to change the rhythm around here to something more regular, like this: http://puu.sh/nsgU7/739e8c7964.jpg (cursor position is where the slider originally started)
4. Actually, I love this diff, it's so much fun to play (well I just played it once because I just came back from work and my hand hurts a bit, but it's already fun to look at and move the cursor to the map in edit).. I really like the 'overmapped' stream and the 1/8 gimmicks you used, they fit the song well for me, I wouldn't worry about those. Just the issues above are what still bothers me a bit.

1. 00:15:958 (3) - I'd recommend to move this slider 1/2 tick later so that it starts on the white tick. You can have a circle stack on 00:15:824 - instead then: http://puu.sh/nslSk/696525dad8.jpg I just don't really see a reason why that slider starts on the red tick right now, it would follow the beat and melody much better if you change it. Same applies for 03:57:744 (3) -
2. 01:15:556 (1,2,1,2) - That intense jump / antijump pattern caught me by surprise. It's much harder to play than it looks like because of the really fast movement required in between the combos. I think ctrl+g on 01:15:824 (1,2) - would help a lot to make this more intuitive.
3. 01:36:985 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4,5,1,2) - I find these patterns underwhelming in this difficulty. It's not even so much that you are undermapping - in Freeze you had such a cool idea (repeating patterns to emphasize the repeated vocals) and here it's mapped just like the rest of the chorus. Same applies for the rest of this difficulty, when this music shows up again, except for 03:44:485 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - which is very well done. Note: This basically applies for Insane too.

Desperate-kun wrote:

[General]

1. I know from your mods that you are a fan of high AR, however I really think some of the ARs in this mapset are set too high. Mappers often think high BPM requires high AR but in reality your mapping style isn't hard to read at all with slightly lower AR, I would even say it reads better. What I suggest is the following:
   
   1. Extra could use AR9, only some simple jump and stream patterns here.
   2. Insane is what bothers me the most. AR9 for a map like this? AR8.5 is much better here if you ask me.
   3. Hard could also use AR7.5 or even AR7. Fixed them all (7.5 for hard) I hope it's still ok with the new patterns... I guess so :O

[Freeze]

1. 00:32:699 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Actually this section is very boring to play for this difficulty level. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of undermapping and the rhythm is perfectly fine here it's just that this section requires almost no cursor movement due to slider leniency, and the movement it requires seems to come at the wrong times. These groups of objects 00:33:503 (3,1,2) - 00:34:574 (3,1,2) - etc. all play like a one-measure long stack and the only emphasis in this section is on those beats 00:33:503 - 00:34:574 - etc. What I would recommend is either having a jump before the big white ticks instead (which would mean stacking two circles under the slider and then have the jumps) or replacing the 1/2-sliders with circles somehow. Just try to create a more interesting cursor movement that emphasizes the music better. Ah, I get your point in a way that when I ask a top-player to play it, at this part I'm always a bit scared that he finds it boring and just quit it xD. On the other hand it really fits the idea I have of the music here. First of all, changing the 1/2 for some circles is no-go because I really want a faster rhythm from 00:41:270 (1) - . And then I tried your suggestion of stacking both notes under the reverse 00:33:235 (2,3) - but, to me at least, it feels that it gives less impact actually. 00:33:235 (2) - Stacked because it's really low, it's basically just the vocal right. 00:33:503 (3) - There's a pretty audible beat here so I use this opportunity to change position. And I insist on "changing position" to me it's almost like this beat was here for this reason lol. Instead of moving your cursor constantly, try to stay at the position of 00:33:235 (2) - and "jump" to that (3) at the last moment.. It's pretty much the flow I have in mind. After that, you don't move at all, in a way that it will give more impact to the movement (as little it is) on the 1/2 here 00:33:770 (1) - A bit hard to explain but... ye, hope you got me xD
2. 01:36:985 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - So why does this pattern emphasize every second white tick (by repetition) when the music clearly repeats every 3 white ticks.. You did it much better all the other times this part comes up in the music so this one really sticks out and should be changed somehow. Try to making something similar to 02:35:913 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - ? Mhh, a bit sad to change the pattern but sounds fair enough. Fixed, I hope it's good enough though *-* Those patterns are kinda hard to create xD ! BUT Remapping the extra diff gave me an idea, so I also remapped this part 03:27:342 (1) - on freeze that I've always found a bit poor of flow.
3. 03:11:136 (1) - Hmm this slider fits the music well however I think it harms playability. This map is supposed to be difficult to play however what I enjoy about it is that it generally has very simple patterns that are easy to understand, it doesn't throw around with weird spacing or rhythms etc. This slider is the only thing in the map that doesn't fit this rhythm simplicity because it starts on a red tick and is located in the middle of a 1/4-section. Getting into streams / 1/4-rhythms after red-tick-sliders is kind of hard and I recommend you to change the rhythm around here to something more regular, like this: http://puu.sh/nsgU7/739e8c7964.jpg (cursor position is where the slider originally started) Really nice point *-* (maybe that's what monstrata wanted to say as well but didn't get it). Fixed it in another way, a bit. We'll see if that works too!
4. Actually, I love this diff, it's so much fun to play (well I just played it once because I just came back from work and my hand hurts a bit, but it's already fun to look at and move the cursor to the map in edit).. I really like the 'overmapped' stream and the 1/8 gimmicks you used, they fit the song well for me, I wouldn't worry about those. Just the issues above are what still bothers me a bit.

[Extra]

1. 00:15:958 (3) - I'd recommend to move this slider 1/2 tick later so that it starts on the white tick. You can have a circle stack on 00:15:824 - instead then: http://puu.sh/nslSk/696525dad8.jpg I just don't really see a reason why that slider starts on the red tick right now, it would follow the beat and melody much better if you change it. Same applies for 03:57:744 (3) - Right, sounds fair, indeed: fixed both!
2. 01:15:556 (1,2,1,2) - That intense jump / antijump pattern caught me by surprise. It's much harder to play than it looks like because of the really fast movement required in between the combos. I think ctrl+g on 01:15:824 (1,2) - would help a lot to make this more intuitive. Kinda disagree here. First of all, it would flow really bad with the next slider, but that's not the main reason why I don't want to change it. I think that the flow as it is here represents a bit better the music. The way you're suggesting is a really circular movement, I don't think that's what the music calls for here. The music feels really "electrfied" and this pattern represents pretty well this I think. Also, the vocals seem to repeat the same tone/pitch each 1/2 ticks. So going twice from bottom to the top represents this as well (from this percpective you could tell me that I could have kept going on with this pattern and...yes I could have done it but it would be too hard imo xD)
3. 01:36:985 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4,5,1,2) - I find these patterns underwhelming in this difficulty. It's not even so much that you are undermapping - in Freeze you had such a cool idea (repeating patterns to emphasize the repeated vocals) and here it's mapped just like the rest of the chorus. Same applies for the rest of this difficulty, when this music shows up again, except for 03:44:485 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - which is very well done. Note: This basically applies for Insane too. Fixed, insane as well... Gotta recheck if everything's fine on insane ><

I found the other diffs fine as they are (except what was already mentioned in the mods of the other diffs). I have to agree with Monstrata though that Normal could use some 'real' 1/2 to improve the difficulty spread. I added a few "triple-like" I wonder if it's enough, I told you (should have told monstrata too ><) IRC why I didn't do it from the get-go, you told me it was ok if it gets hard icon, but rating is still going high pretty fast, added like 2 or 3 and it took 0.5 ... So yep, I hope it's enough ><

Alright so I explained many issues more in-depth than I normally would. The reason is that I see some miscommunication happening between the previous modders and you. They brought up some valid points that were important to them and you often replied very short and a bit meaningless (best example is Monstrata's concern about the difficulty spread). So to solve this problem I tried to give longer explanation but I expect the same from you when you reply and deny - to give proper reasoning for your denial.

Seeing how much effort you already put into this mapset, fixing up the spread issue and the other issues shouldn't be a problem for you. I am willing to bubble this mapset if the spread issue gets fixed and if you provide reasonable explanations for everything you denied from this mod. :3

Desperate-kun wrote:

02:35:913 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - in Extra is missing hitsounds. Fix that and I'll blebub.

Enon wrote:

don't bully qualified mappers

Bearizm wrote:

I also forgot to mention what's the point of having 4 combo colors with is barely different? or am i color blind

Yales wrote:

Bearizm wrote:

I also forgot to mention what's the point of having 4 combo colors with is barely different? or am i color blind

Why do the color "gray" even exist? We have "white" after all.

Yales wrote:

You could have made those kind of research before coming grumbling here (and basically asking me to map another diff) on a set of 6 diffs, 4 minutes drain time that I fully mapped by myself... I'm totally willing to get feedback, it's even appreciated but at least put the form. Cause when you say "I hate to be that guy" ... actually you love it don't you?

Bearizm wrote:

Might as well not have a qualified section, right? Just rank every map that is given a heart! Also I'm not bullying or anything, I'm expressing what I think about the map, and how it can be better. How is that bullying?

I also forgot to mention what's the point of having 4 combo colors with is barely different? or am i color blind

Enon wrote:

heyy just joke D:

Sieg wrote:

a bit of offtopic D:

I'm here not to feedback but with another question. What you guys think, is this can be somewhat accurate gaps for this beatmap?

Natsu wrote:

Yales yes your mp3 can be from the same source, but hear the quality difference and the enconde difference

yours:

SPOILER

mine:

SPOILER

I'm not the best encoding audio, but someone maybe can get an even better one from nicovideo, unless you want to keep a really low quality one. I wouldn't talk too much about the spread, but I have same feeling as Beazrim and Sieg

Yales wrote:

For the spread... I just can't take it. Sorry. I mapped the whole thing just to rank "freeze" in a way that it, at least, follow the ranking criteria... If after that there's some unspoken rules... I'm just like "no"
... If you want to get an idea of the feel I have about this set. Try to drink 4L of millk at once... no fun

Bearizm wrote:

@Desp I've always thought spreads are supposed to be balanced throughout all the difficulties being made (?)

Desperate-kun wrote:

Bearizm wrote:

@Desp I've always thought spreads are supposed to be balanced throughout all the difficulties being made (?)

Then why do mapsets with 5 Extra difficulties get ranked? Things like E--N---------H-----I are bad because the Normal could clearly be harder to create a more polished spread (just an example) but the spread here is reasonably focused on the higher difficulty-tier.
If the spread rule change that was proposed and hugely dismissed by the community a few weeks ago got through, this would be an issue, but as it is right now, not really.

Smoothie World wrote:

00:32:699 - Does anyone else think the hitsounds hear are nearly impossible to hear? I have mine pretty loud and I had trouble hearing them I don't know, I can hear them just fine tbh.

00:04:708 (2,1) - Why is this 6.71x spacing? I don't get it. At 00:06:851 (2,1) you have 3.5x and 00:08:994 (2,1) is even smaller, meanwhile the song is getting more and more intense. Well, it's still the same flow so I don't think it plays bad. Well, I don't even "think" it plays bad. It does play good to me. Now if you want to know exactly why I did that. It's because the music before this part feels flat, like it doesn't get more intense. Until this part where the song does get more intense (it's like a new section in the same section if you want.. a new pattern basically.) This is why I want a jump to those sliders. Now about 00:08:994 (2,1) - this your own interpretation. To me it actually gets less intense to be finally cut by this sound 00:10:199 (1) - which is really intense for that matter.

00:12:811 - You don't have a triple on this tick anywhere else in the song. It's mapped to nothing. When you want to emphasize the music with a triple it's usually "overmapped". You could probably have point them all out by the way (and not only my map). About this one 00:12:744 (3,4,5) - it's obviously to recall 00:12:208 (6,7,1) - which follows the same sound. It's just a gimmick to create some game, pretty sad you didn't see it tbh Now, "why it's not always the same on similar parts" because if I think it's fun to play I don't think it's a good thing to overuse this technique (not for this map at least).

Shiirn wrote:

on Freeze:

02:25:199 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,1) - this stanza is in 1/3, not 1/4. Pretty sure it's debatable. I asked MUTLIPLE players (from average to expert) as well as modders/mappers and the majority told me it was fine and I should keep it (I still have some screenshots xD) For my part I feel that 1/4 is way more fitting, also you have no clue what you're hitting when it's put 1/3.


I'm sure there's more that can be worked out. Freeze is fairly good overall, but there are some, to me, major oversights that should be ironed out before qualification. You might actually want to detail a bit more. Like... that's your point of view, and I'm thankful for that. But to me it's fine and after 9 months spamming #modreq, 46 checks (not counting the hundreds of testplays) your remark feels like a stone in my face.

Bonsai wrote:

Also, minor but imo unfitting nonetheless, 02:16:628 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,5) - the music is kinda going half-BPM but you just throw jumps around anyways, I don't think that represents the music very well

Yales wrote:

edit: I'll re-answer later actually maybe. Maybe not I'm sorry but when I read this:

Bonsai wrote:

Also, minor but imo unfitting nonetheless, 02:16:628 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,5) - the music is kinda going half-BPM but you just throw jumps around anyways, I don't think that represents the music very well

I just don't know what to say... It fits perfectly to me. To me, this section is the highlight of the whole map... If you don't like it fine, but don't come here to ask a DQ because you dont "think it reprensents the music well" for this case you can map your own set. really. I think this is really inapropriate.

Bonsai wrote:

That was just one minor thing I noticed when looking at it, that's not what I'm getting worked up about / asking a DQ for, I just wanted to mention it D:

Yales wrote:

I think you just didn't get the whole idea of my mapping. And... before it pops up (I know this community now) don't even tell me "your point is just to overmapped" otherwise I would have incorporate this map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/291154

Okoratu wrote:

Isn't that what Tengaku did? I'm pretty sure that's what Tengaku did lol

Shiirn wrote:

I can't believe that this even has the potential to be argued over. DQ, fix it, requalify. If the DQers refuse to recheck your map then they're doing their job wrong.

Bonsai wrote:

And I see absolutely no reason for 01:46:092 (3,3,3,2,1,2) - being 1/8s, there's not even a single 1/4 on any of them, and just mapping some random sounds with 1/8 just bc you feel like it is just ?!

Shiirn wrote:

For what it's worth, the only time I think using the wrong snapping in terms of 1/3 vs 1/4 is when the music has a 1/6 quad and it is mapped as a triple. That is the only case. Period.

Bonsai wrote:

And yeah, starting to tell us your reasons for all those sliders and overmaps instead of "I think it fits" would be a great way to start rational discussion too btw

Bonsai wrote:

How about you guys wait for the mapper's response before trying to put words in their mouth?

Bonsai wrote:

not saying your map is stupid, just saying that player's opinions don't mean anything) That's pretty good to mention, because when you say that my overmapping or w/e are "ridiculous" this is the message you're bringing.

I like how you're bringing "If you map could fit in other songs with the same BPM, then your map is bad" when you are literally overmapping tons of stuff just to make it exciting to play. Your triplets and streams would fit in any other song just as well simply because they aren't even existing in this song in the first place. Actually this map is way easier than what most mappers would make nowadays for a song like that, so saying I mapped this way to make it exciting is so-so.

"I even feel you checked the map without even listening to the music." Yeah right, that's why I'm pointing out overmaps. ok
I know what you want to represent with those sliders and other overmaps of all sorts, I just think that overmapping is a very bad way to do that. There are thousands of ways to emphasize everything you want without resorting to overmapping, and that's what I want to encourage, because it seems like you are just overmapping to make the map be exciting when that could be done in so many other ways. But what if it fits to me? I mean.. My favourite mappers tend to do that as well, I have more faith in them than 2 or 3 modders.

A 1/2-slider, maybe with one reverse, would be a hold note too, and would not ignore the fact that that 'low' instrument actually has a 1/2-beat inbetween which is being completely ignored this way. Why does it need to be 1/8 when there is no 1/8 in the music? I don't even want to asnwer that because this is way too subjective, the music is defenitely not flat 1/1 or 1/2. To me if you map like this you miss a chance to show the potential of those sounds my sliders are following

It doesn't seem like he's 'ovbiously' knowing that when all he says is "I asked players and they said 1/4 is fine". The question was already mentioned (on another stream actually) and from that I asked multiple people to be sure of myself. At the end Desperate-kun checked the streams and said: " I really like the 'overmapped' stream and the 1/8 gimmicks you used, they fit the song well for me, I wouldn't worry about those. " So no, your point of view isn't general.

(maybe because the rest didn't fit that well in the first place?!? deep thoughts ikr) Actually no, to me 1/4 fits great, and I really, sincerly doubt you found this part was 1/3 by looking the map at first sight and without deleting the whole stream put the audio at 25% speed etc... Like "it's so obvious it's 1/3.."

Your point of view is welcome. But I won't change my style because of it. As I said (or as I wanted to say lol) the feedbacks I got from some specific mappers have way more impact than some random modders (which are, don't get me wrong, interesting to hear, but won't necessarily make a difference).

Shiirn wrote:

Didn't Loctav say something about not using other maps as justification for other maps?

Liiraye wrote:

http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it

edit: actually this fits the synth better

Yales wrote:

Liiraye wrote:

http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it

edit: actually this fits the synth better

Thanks for your suggestion, really much appreciated. But then it doesn't follow the melody, and the last downbeat not being hit isn't smthing I like.

Also, we shouldn't forget that if there's kick sliders here 02:25:735 (1,2,1,2) - it's because the music gets more intense in this whole section.
Therefore since it seems we don't need the thoughts of players (as they could "simply mash their keyboard" mhmh), we should just follow the music in a way that it makes sense I found this meanwhile http://puu.sh/nEBoW/d275bec69e.jpg (I'm dead serious about this btw). I mean pace seems approrpiate, most audible beats (I'll keep saying there's a drumroll behind) are followed too. I'm like why not. Or can I ask someone to edit mp3? Pretty sure it's possible to be fixed this way. I mean it's not like we would actually hear something different ...

Yales wrote:

Liiraye wrote:

http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it

edit: actually this fits the synth better

Thanks for your suggestion, really much appreciated. But then it doesn't follow the melody, and the last downbeat not being hit isn't smthing I like.

Also, we shouldn't forget that if there's kick sliders here 02:25:735 (1,2,1,2) - it's because the music gets more intense in this whole section.
Therefore since it seems we don't need the thoughts of players (as they could "simply mash their keyboard" mhmh), we should just follow the music in a way that it makes sense I found this meanwhile http://puu.sh/nEBoW/d275bec69e.jpg (I'm dead serious about this btw). I mean pace seems approrpiate, most audible beats (I'll keep saying there's a drumroll behind) are followed too. I'm like why not. Or can I ask someone to edit mp3? Pretty sure it's possible to be fixed this way. I mean it's not like we would actually hear something different ...

Liiraye wrote:

isn't that pic you did like making a 1/8 stream on a 1/4? using 1/6 triples on 1/3 notes...

generally a rule of thumb is to start a stance shift with sliders/repeat sliders so that the player doesn't get suddenly thrown off by going from 1/4 to 1/3, especially in a fast map like this in the middle of stream (not sure how much good this will do in scorev2 tho lol)

since the 1/3 is hard to hear, I'd suggest following the synths as I did, since they are more audible than the 1/3 while playing. Try it out and see what you think, good luck regardless!

HappyRocket88 wrote:

It's somehow weird QATs haven't come yet, even after there was a healthy discussion here and there are few points to fix. o.o