Raiden wrote:

...Chromoxxxxが英訳してくれます。

[Mrrichi's Inner Oni]
00:02:061 (1,2,3) - Consider lowering the volume of these 3 notes for obvious reasons
えっと、まず何が"明らかな"理由にあたるのかがわかりません。ここは譜面の一番最初ですし最初だけ音が小さいというのはプレイヤーが自分の叩いた音を聞いて序盤のリズムを取るという事をやりづらくします。また、もしここの音量を変えるのなら他の配置でも音量を変えなければ全体のバランスが取れないところがあると思いますし、全体を変えるか全部変えないかでどちらかと言われたら僕は全部同じな方が好みというか、叩く配置によって音量が違うというのは個人的に受け付けられないものもあるので、全体の配置の音量の調整を完璧にしてその一部としてのこの配置の音量を変えるという案があるのなら承諾するかもですが、ここだけ小さくというのは最初に言った理由も含めて承諾できません。もしどうしても小さくしないとrankedでマズイなんて話があったらrankedする際にmapsetから削除してもらうかタダのUra Oniとかに名前を変えて僕の名前を消してもらって構わないです。

Raiden wrote:

Being hard to read and play is the whole purpose of a higher difficulty tier such as Virtuoso, plus you'd be being more accurate with the music. In any case, I could read and play it no problem, and I am certainly not a very high tier player

Raiden wrote:

Alright. I see no reason on keeping to insist more because we are going to run in circles, plus a middle ground has already been made.

Back.

Raiden wrote:

hello, sorry yumuya this is a veto

[Virtuoso]
I'm pretty sure you know the drill. Those sneaky 1/8 doubles that you have there:
00:31:916 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) -
00:34:224 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) -

I know you put good intention on it. You might even justify this with a musical concept called "Grace note", yet I still think this does not fit neither the atmosphere nor the song. Grace notes are an interesting concept but if you ask me, not suitable for a gamemode such as Taiko, specially considering there are other things to represent in the song such as the potent kicks going on at 00:35:450 - 00:35:486 - 00:35:522 - (even they are 1/8). Regardless, the second wave of doublets are misplaced: the grace notes are being played earlier than the white and red ticks, not later.

Therefore, I will be using my right as a nominator to veto this map until further argumentation and agreements have been made.

My personal suggestion on the second wave of 1/8 doubles is simple: keep as few 1/8 as possible, and map the potent kicks as 1/4 triplets or finishers. This way you would have a nice balance of different gameplay elements, instead of a single 1/8 double section that plays like a long string of finishers, which if you ask me, do not fit at all the intensity.

zigizigiefe wrote:

When yumuya change the patterns according to your opinions,it looks worse with those finishers which don't fit to the song.Players don't need to emphasize strong rhythm sounds everytime if there are stronger one.Now it looks good.
In my opinion, 00:31:916 - 00:34:224 - there are "grace notes" though,even if they're weaker than others and should be emphasized.

frukoyurdakul wrote:

Well, i've tested this diff after Raiden's pop and re-bubble and noticed some stuff which are:

00:25:137 (219,220,221,222) - I listened this section with 25% speed and discovered that the keyboard sounds are not in 1/6, but there is a single sound on 00:25:137 (219) - this note and 00:25:185 (220,221,222) - these should be in 1/8 starting from 00:25:210 - here, plus there is a keyboard sound on 00:25:318 - this spot (1/8 snap). If you need to follow the keyboard, then do it properly otherwise change to the structure to 1/4 only so it can hit some of the keyboard correctly, because there are no 1/6 keyboard sounds. As you say, to be accurate there are 1/8 sounds here, but I feel that there is the atmosphere like 1/6 is suitable for the sounds of piano. It which players can feel during the play is the atmosphere of sounds rather than accurate sounds.

00:31:916 - 00:34:224 - As far as I know, putting 1/8 after 1/4 is rankable, and since the rest of the patterns are following keyboard, I don't know why you put a gap here. You can fill these spots with 1/8 sounds like you did before and they sound good to be honest. I may add 1/2 notes.

00:36:387 (339,340) - What makes these notes different compared to the rest? I can hear 1/8 (or 1/12, not sure) keyboard sounds on that spots too and can't understand the reason putting 1/2 notes only. This breaks consistency between the rest of the pattern-sound releation. The sound of the piano is too weak, so I think that players can't feel it during the play. Also, I want to prevent 1/8 doublets becoming too long.

01:20:304 - You can add a note here since there is a keyboard sound which you are following them. I keep it in order to balance of difficulty with other parts.

01:25:857 (214,215,216,217,218,219,220,221,222,223,224) - dkdddkdddkd. Not sure if you are following the keyboards but with this way you can emphasize the high-pitch keyboard sounds better. changed to dkddkkdddkd

01:27:155 (227,228,229,231,232,233) - Swap these? Second pattern's keyboard sounds are a bit higher than the first one. changed

01:51:750 (458) - k here, to emphasize the higher sound on keyboards. I thought it's not necessary to follow the keyboard pitch.

01:53:264 (475,476,477,478,479,480,481,482,483) - I am not sure what you've followed here, but it sounds like 01:53:264 (475,476) - these two represents the snare sounds and the rest of it represents the bass sound. Instead, 01:53:408 (477) - you can change this one to k to end the 1/4 pattern with kat and it will also represent the last snare sound. Plus, the 1/3 notes can be seen more clear with this way. changed. In addition, I changed part of 1/3 to 1/4 following to the sounds of drum.

You can give kudosu or not depending how many you'll accept my opinions about this diff, but if you apply some of them this diff will be more enjoyable. Good luck~

Y O U T A wrote:

gratz~!

zigizigiefe wrote:

Congratz yumuya ^^

yuzu__rinrin wrote:

おめでとう

OzzyOzrock wrote:

haaaa?!

gratz :3

_yu68 wrote:

IamKwaN wrote:

where did you get the artist? i found it as D only on the BMS site and the file downloaded from the page
http://manbow.nothing.sh/event/event.cg ... 1&event=74
https://puu.sh/vX0pF/b47fe969f7.BMP
https://puu.sh/vX0rf/a6e45410bf.png

IamKwaN wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/4361465 seems it's the composer's intention using this alias for this song.

congrats for qualifying!

MNTkun wrote:

gratz!!!

thzz wrote:

gratz!!!!

Mrriichi wrote:

えっとTwitterで言った通りModしに来ましたkudosu5000兆個欲しいのでDQしませんか？
多分、ランクドというものを考えた時に_yu68さんと私とでは前提が違い過ぎるものがあると思いますので、このMod内容に直して欲しいというより私が適当にこのマップを貶していた訳ではないという証拠のつもりで書いてます。なので私の指摘の内容が受け入れられないものだとしても「そういう自分と違う考え方が世にはあるし、その考え方もランクドのやり方として一般に許容されるものの一つ」という風には思って欲しいです。

[Virtuoso]
※細かい指摘も一応一部しますがInnerのMapなので、そこは好みで済ませられるかもしれません。
この譜面について私が思う最大の問題点は譜面全体を見たときに1/8のパターンがあるパートが悪目立ちしてしまってる点です。
悪目立ちと私が言う根拠は1/4より密集したノーツである1/8ないし1/6のノーツが、このパート並みにとは言わなくてもこれに準ずるレベルで密集した地帯が他にない（1/8はそもそこのパートでしか使われてなく、1/6も最長のものが4連で前後は1/4ばかり）だという事です。
更にこの1/8がある地帯は00:36:027 - から5小節と譜面の前半の中央にあたる部分です。目立つ配置なら最後に置くか、中央の休憩地帯の直前に置くか、サビに置くか、もしくは最初の最初にあえて置くか、何かしらの譜面全体の構成で意味を持つ場所に置くのが難所（難所に見えるところ）を綺麗に見せるコツだと思いますが、現在の1/8は上記の内容に沿う事無く前半のそこそこ譜面が流れた後にやって来ます。これは譜面全体を見たときにマイナスポイントであるとしか言えないです。

しかし、この1/8連符は確かに逆餡蜜的な手法を使えば実質16分長連符と変わりませんし（そこがこの譜面がpp譜面だと言われる所以だと思いますが）プレイの上では簡単ではありますのでシステム的なSRの計算法のバグだと言えば難易度は均衡を保てていると考えられるかもしれません。
しかし、例え1/8を1/4の長連符扱いをしたとしても

ココが

こうなるだけで、単音の4連続を交互に繰り返した長連符をココに入れるのは、この1/8を1/4の長連符だと見做すと仮定しても前後のdとkの配置と比べて浮いているとしか言えません。前後のdとkの配置にddkkddkk~やddddkkkk~のようにパターンが繰り返されているものは（一番短い繰り返しのパターンであるddkkdやkkddk等5連1/4を含んでも）どこにもありませんので1/4の簡単な配置だと捉えたとしても浮くのは変わりがありません。他のパートでも長複合を置くとしたら00:41:291 - から休憩地帯前までの前半と後半とかオススメです。休憩地帯前に置けてかつ複合をそこそこ難しくすれば1/8の浮きは抑えられると思います。

以上が譜面全体からこの地帯をパッと見た（プレイした）時に感じられた事です。

次にこの配置内の細かい配置についての指摘です。
一応これらの指摘はこの配置が音取りマッピングであるという前提の元、よりマシなパターンに出来ないかという方針の元に書いています。
このパートだけを見て最初に思ったのは1/8と1/2の置き方が謎だという事です。
例えば00:31:916 -と00:34:224 - が1/8でないのは音の強さ的におかしいですし、00:36:387 (341,342) - も1/8でないのも音が明らかに小さいと判断した為かもしれませんが1/2ごとに段階的に音が小さくなっていくパートでそこだけ1/2というのはおかしいと考えます。
なので00:31:916 -を普通に1/8にして00:33:070 - が音が下がってる事を利用して1/2にするのはどうでしょうか、また後半も00:34:224 -と00:36:387 - を1/8にする事で1/8のパターンが終了する
面倒臭いので現在の譜面全体の方針を尊重したVirtuoso (Mrriichi Patch)でも後で張っとくので参考にして下さい、私の譜面の配置でそこはありえんだろとか何故その配置にしたかとか疑問があったら細かいところはIRCModで(Not for Rankedだから厳密にはModじゃないかもしれないですけど)いつでも待ってます。

他に全体を見た時に気になった点はkiaiとkiaiと同じメロディである00:17:060 -～00:26:291 -（以下A）と01:07:252 -～01:15:328 -（以下kiai）です。
これらのパートはそれぞれの前半（00:17:060）と後半（00:21:676 -から）とで同じメロディーの中、難易度差を作ってますがその難易度ギャップが激しすぎます。前半が1/2だらけで後半が1/2単音が3,4個しかないというのは明らかに同じメロディラインの隣接したパートとして見た時おかしいです。（00:41:291 -からの同じメロディが入ってるパートは良いと思います）
またAとkiaiのノーツ配置自体を比べた時も違和感を覚えます。kiaiの後半ではシンバルが鳴っているので難しくするという判断は正しいですが、Aとkiaiの前半を比べるとkiaiの方が簡単であるように見えます（1/4の5連00:18:791 - と3連01:08:982 - なのでそもそものそれぞれの前半と後半の難易度ギャップからすれば大した差ではないかもしれませんが）。また01:10:136 - の突然の5連もAで対応する場所に1/4はなく、何故Aとkiaiの前半がこんなにスカスカで似たような1/4配置になってないのか理解できません。後は例えばそれぞれの前半と後半の繋ぎの00:20:378 (166,167,168,169,170,171,172,173,174,175,176) - と01:10:569 (47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57) - は同じノーツ配置になってないのか、統一性のなさを上げたらAとkiaiのノーツを総入れ替えする羽目になってしまうので細かくは言いませんが、曲もしくは譜面のの盛り上がりであるはずのkiaiとそれと同じメロディである曲もしくは譜面の大事なポイントであるべき場所がこの様な配置になってるのは本当によろしくないと思います。

最後にパッと全体を見て気になった事と言えば00:50:522 -からの休憩地帯の1/2のノーツライン（1/2の連符の塊の長さ）がバラバラだって事です。1/2しかない休憩であるからって叩くリズムをばらけさせては休憩になりにくいと思います。もしくは適度なタイミングで1/4の3連をオーバーマップする等、見て「この休憩地帯は同じパターンの繰り返しで譜面の配置が見やすいから気楽に出来る」と思える内容にすべきだと思います。ノーツの長さが違う事によるリズム難は立派な難易度の一部だって事です。

以上で全体的なノーツ配置に関する指摘は以上ですが、全体的なマッピングの仕方の指摘をすると以前_yu68さんが言っていた音取りを重視したマッピングというものを見てこの譜面の音を聞いてみてパート、もしくはそれに内包する規則性のあるメロディ毎に明らかに音取りする楽器の差が出ている印象はありませんでした。
つまり、どういう事かというとこの譜面の音取りはその場で音取りしたい楽器の音をとりあえず音取りして、それを同じメロディで繰り返す事によって無理やりパターンだ、強調だと主張している様に感じられるという事です。（多分、この投稿の後に具体的にどの配置か指摘すると思います）

他にも何か言う事が出来たらわかりやすくP.S.みたいにして追加します
maziariさんの譜面は_yu68さんの以上にそもそも私の譜面の作り方とかけ離れてる気がするので指摘が無意味になるのが目に見えてるのでしません。
私のVirutuoso (Mrriichi Patch)みたいなのはそのうち暇になったら出します。今回大事なのは全体的なパターンだと思っているので重要度は薄いからです。
私の譜面の良いと思うところは後ろのboxに入れて近々書きます。
とりあえず、以上で。

Mrriichi's Inner Oniの良さ

※書き途中です

Virtuoso (Mrriichi Patch)

※制作中です

その他、本筋とは関係ないこと

Twitterで譜面を貶されたとして「意見があるなら聞きます」という態度を取らず「面倒臭いから何が悪いか聞かなかったけど指摘があるなら聞く」みたいな態度を取ってましたけど何でそんなに偉そうなんですか？某BNが自分の譜面へ低評価をしたという発言に自分からリプをして某名言botに登録されていた話があると思いますが、どちらかというとそれが普通で自分がちゃんと頑張って作った譜面に対する評価への反応としてはいささか自分の譜面に対して思い入れがなさすぎると思いますし、一Mapperとしてその様な態度で譜面を作ってRankedさせるのは非常に腹立たしいですし、他のModderやBNの協力があって出来たRankedだという自覚がないように思います。偉そうになる原因については推測以上の事は何も言えないためココには書けませんけど、Rankedは様々な他人の協力があって出来たという事をちゃんと考えて自分の譜面への評価（ppが入るとかその他譜面自体には関係ない事への評価を除く）を見つめなおして欲しい限りです。

Surono wrote:

hello new pp map

Surono wrote:

wall text, whats happened.

I guess mrichi are trying to make new pepes, haha jk.

Surono wrote:

wall text, whats happened.

_yu68 wrote:

Surono wrote:

wall text, whats happened.

Mrriichi really hates Virtuoso lol

• [Virtuoso]

1. 00:15:258 (127) - this note could be moved to 00:15:185 - or deleted as the background piano are 1/2.
2. 00:30:474 (272,273) - consider swapping these notes to k d to accompany the pitch of piano ?
3. From 00:32:060 to 00:38:984 - although the intention to follow the indefinite scatter sounds is known, the 1/8 doublets used in this session are in fact not very appropriate since the major piano rhythm is only 1/2. Please think about it again and consider changing them to some simple 1/4 patterns.
4. 00:39:488 (369) - same as 00:15:258 (127) -
5. 00:56:435 (518) - you may move this note to 00:56:580 - as the piano pattern is similar to 00:51:676 - 00:53:984 and 00:55:137 -
6. 00:56:868 (520) - this note could be k to serve as an increase in kat density starting from 00:54:272 - if you agree with ^
7. 01:50:379 (441) - consider changing this note to k to make it consistent with 01:50:596 (444) - for the identical piano pitch ?

• [maziari's Hell Oni]

1. 00:15:258 (101) - refer to Virtuoso

Arrival wrote:

I see.

Anyway, if Mrriichi isn't going to make a post that other BNs and QAT can understand, (aka use english) the DQ won't happen, since the map has been debated before the Qualification. Also considering that Mrriichi took part of the ranking process since last year, he could have posted his questionning during the Bubble Pop period, which would have had way more sense.

I'll get along with Maziari here and not request a disqualification, unless Mrriichi makes a clear statement on to why he S U D D E N L Y thinks the map should be disqualified.

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

Hello, I would like to point out some issues regarding the pattern usage in the top difficulty.

• [Virtuoso]

1. 00:15:258 (127) - this note could be moved to 00:15:185 - or deleted as the background piano are 1/2. I feel the doublets are like suitable for atmosphere.
2. 00:30:474 (272,273) - consider swapping these notes to k d to accompany the pitch of piano ? I want to make a flow similar to 00:28:310 - while emphasizing 00:30:618 -
3. From 00:32:060 to 00:38:984 - although the intention to follow the indefinite scatter sounds is known, the 1/8 doublets used in this session are in fact not very appropriate since the major piano rhythm is only 1/2. Please think about it again and consider changing them to some simple 1/4 patterns. You may feel this is inappropriate, but I think that it's fun of the map and the song that various patterns sound in similar melody. Also, making this part 1/2 etc is to waste the individuality of the song in my opinion.
4. 00:39:488 (369) - same as 00:15:258 (127) - same
5. 00:56:435 (518) - you may move this note to 00:56:580 - as the piano pattern is similar to 00:51:676 - 00:53:984 and 00:55:137 - Because this part has 1/2 in many, I think that if I make rhythm one pattern, the player will get bored.
6. 00:56:868 (520) - this note could be k to serve as an increase in kat density starting from 00:54:272 - if you agree with ^ ^
7. 01:50:379 (441) - consider changing this note to k to make it consistent with 01:50:596 (444) - for the identical piano pitch ? I think it's difficult to feel the rhythm a bit.

_yu68 wrote:

りいちさんが合理的に譜面を批判していることを知れて安心しました。
本筋とは別の件に関しても仰る通りです。全てのmapperの意見に平等に耳を傾けるよう態度を改めたいと思います。申し訳ございませんでした

1. 00:32:060 ~ 00:38:984 - Nardo mentioned this part already. In my opinion it could be okay since you try to somewhat highlight the piano but it is worth to think about if finishers or other ways of patterns people may have suggested might be better. However, if it should happen that the 1/8 stay as they are, I wonder why at 00:31:916 (285) - and 00:34:224 (312) - are no 1/8. It's the same sound you mapped the whole time and makes it rather be kind of out of place.
2. 00:41:291 ~ 00:44:753 - The patterns in this part have no correlation to each other. They share same / similar attributes, but are scattered oddly around, trying to somehow emphasize the trilling piano in the background without much consistency. The idea you have is pretty good, but should be mapped in a more evenly order. To understand what I mean I give you one example to understand what I mean with consistency (hilighted notes are finisher):
   
3. 00:57:661 (525) - Move to 00:57:589 -. I'm not quite sure what you try to achieve here. The whole time you are mapping on strong 1/2 and suddenly you stop. Additonally the 00:59:176 (537,538,539,540) - doublets should be at 00:59:464 - to make it consistent to previous one, stanza wise. You try somehwat to hilight the higher pitches in the piano, but you can do that simply by following the 1/2 instead of placing odd 1/4 that do not exist.
4. 01:19:367 (144,145,146,147) - If I'm not wrong, there is no 1/3. Or at least it is very insignificant. What I would rather suggest is the picture downbelow as it would follow the piano more accurately from 01:18:357 to 01:19:944 - .
   
5. 01:00:089 (544,549) - Deleting these two notes would be handy as they are rather filler notes without any real representation. Considering what you are mapping to, they seem to be rather a disturbance of the actual soundings you have here.
   
6. 01:22:396 (177,178,184,185,191,192) - Try to move one tick back. It's just own preference since the piano is very deep here and the dons represent it in this way nicely.

OnosakiHito wrote:

We will disqualify the beatmap for now as there is discussion going on about the beatmap and the possible improvement of it. Additionally I would like to mention to not bash on Mrrichi as he seems to be not proficient in the english language enough to be able to express his opinion about this beatmap. Connected to this, whether a disquaification happens or not is still in the hand of the QAT (@Arrival) and not decided upon language barriers. It also seems like when looking at the responses, that both mappers feel sorry about what happened in the background and seem to try to be at least polite. Mrrichi tried to state his view about the beatmap in an appropriate manner, too.

_yu68 wrote:

りいちさんが合理的に譜面を批判していることを知れて安心しました。
本筋とは別の件に関しても仰る通りです。全てのmapperの意見に平等に耳を傾けるよう態度を改めたいと思います。申し訳ございませんでした

It is good that you think that way and I hope you guys settled the quarrel you had before. I can assume that you are going to give a proper answer to it with some possible changes as you notced it on one of your spoiler boxes: ※制作中です ? Proper answer to Mrrichi's mod is needed.

@Mrriichi: Even though it is hard, please try from now on to write some sentences on english after modding in japanese so people can understand what you are talking about.

OnosakiHito wrote:

We will disqualify the beatmap for now as there is discussion going on about the beatmap and the possible improvement of it. Additionally I would like to mention to not bash on Mrrichi as he seems to be not proficient in the english language enough to be able to express his opinion about this beatmap. Connected to this, whether a disquaification happens or not is still in the hand of the QAT (@Arrival) and not decided upon language barriers. It also seems like when looking at the responses, that both mappers feel sorry about what happened in the background and seem to try to be at least polite. Mrrichi tried to state his view about the beatmap in an appropriate manner, too.

_yu68 wrote:

りいちさんが合理的に譜面を批判していることを知れて安心しました。
本筋とは別の件に関しても仰る通りです。全てのmapperの意見に平等に耳を傾けるよう態度を改めたいと思います。申し訳ございませんでした

It is good that you think that way and I hope you guys settled the quarrel you had before. I can assume that you are going to give a proper answer to it with some possible changes as you notced it on one of your spoiler boxes: ※制作中です ? Proper answer to Mrrichi's mod is needed.

@Mrriichi: Even though it is hard, please try from now on to write some sentences on english after modding in japanese so people can understand what you are talking about.


[Virtuoso]

I will give some thoughts about this specific difficulty as it seems to need some improvements. For some parts I'm won't be quite sure myself. For others there will be probably fixes needed as they are either not accurately following the piano (as you try to follow at times) or have in general structural / rhytmical issues. The keyword will be having consistency, especially for parts where you suddenly improvise. Please don't expect me to mention every single point, I will provide some examples here which you should give some thoughts about.

1. 00:32:060 ~ 00:38:984 - Nardo mentioned this part already. In my opinion it could be okay since you try to somewhat highlight the piano but it is worth to think about if finishers or other ways of patterns people may have suggested might be better. However, if it should happen that the 1/8 stay as they are, I wonder why at 00:31:916 (285) - and 00:34:224 (312) - are no 1/8. It's the same sound you mapped the whole time and makes it rather be kind of out of place. I think map can emphasize the piano atmosphere and "cymbal sound" by starting 1/8 from large white ticks.
   In addition, I got several opinions before bubble saying that 1/8 of the points pointed out should be removed. I felt it was a good thing and applied it.
2. 00:41:291 ~ 00:44:753 - The patterns in this part have no correlation to each other. They share same / similar attributes, but are scattered oddly around, trying to somehow emphasize the trilling piano in the background without much consistency. The idea you have is pretty good, but should be mapped in a more evenly order. To understand what I mean I give you one example to understand what I mean with consistency (hilighted notes are finisher):
   
   "Should be mapped in a more evenly order." Why? I want to focus diversity. I think consistency is enough by doublets. To unify and copy-and-paste are different.
3. 00:57:661 (525) - Move to 00:57:589 -. I'm not quite sure what you try to achieve here. The whole time you are mapping on strong 1/2 and suddenly you stop. Additonally the 00:59:176 (537,538,539,540) - doublets should be at 00:59:464 - to make it consistent to previous one, stanza wise. You try somehwat to hilight the higher pitches in the piano, but you can do that simply by following the 1/2 instead of placing odd 1/4 that do not exist. Because the cymbal rings at 00:57:445 - , I think that stopping 1/2 here is suitable. I also don't feel the necessity to use 1/2 because map will becomes too flat for sounds.
4. 01:19:367 (144,145,146,147) - If I'm not wrong, there is no 1/3. Or at least it is very insignificant. What I would rather suggest is the picture downbelow as it would follow the piano more accurately from 01:18:357 to 01:19:944 - .
   
   I want to focus on emphasizing 01:19:944 - rather than the sounds of piano. I certainly heard 1/3 there.
5. 01:00:089 (544,549) - Deleting these two notes would be handy as they are rather filler notes without any real representation. Considering what you are mapping to, they seem to be rather a disturbance of the actual soundings you have here.
   
   01:00:089 - deleted
6. 01:22:396 (177,178,184,185,191,192) - Try to move one tick back. It's just own preference since the piano is very deep here and the dons represent it in this way nicely. Consider the flow of the piano pitch, I prefer the way it is now.

Overall the map is okay considering some of the piano plays being very hard to follow. However, those are often the parts (with the odd snappings) that can be probably refined / improved and that can be mainly done by some more modding / checks which I would highly encourage you to ask for before proceeding.

Also on a side note: Do not try to get rid of me as you did with Nardo just now. lol I just didn't apply the suggestion based on my opinion. We may have misunderstood because my English is not good, sorry.

119540,324.324324324324,4,1,0,90,1,8
119540,-89.2857142857143,4,1,0,90,0,8
119864,370.37037037037,4,1,0,90,1,0
119864,-78.125,4,1,0,90,0,8
120234,419.58041958042,4,1,0,90,1,8
120234,-68.9655172413793,4,1,0,90,0,0
120443,405.405405405405,4,1,0,90,1,8
120443,-71.4285714285714,4,1,0,90,0,8
120645,410.958904109589,4,1,0,90,1,8
120645,-70.4225352112676,4,1,0,90,0,8
120850,526.315789473684,4,1,0,90,1,8
120850,-54.9450549450549,4,1,0,90,0,8

Skylish wrote:

Hi, yumuya, first time to mod your map. I am sorry to see the harsh discussion above but I think that's necessary to improve the overall map quality:

[Timing]

> 01:59:540 - I can see a tendency that you are trying to follow the piano main melody in these BPM shifting sections, but somehow you failed to attempt all of them after this timing. Let's try this one (starting from 01:59:540 - , including everything you are gonna need):

119540,324.324324324324,4,1,0,90,1,8
119540,-89.2857142857143,4,1,0,90,0,8
119864,370.37037037037,4,1,0,90,1,0
119864,-78.125,4,1,0,90,0,8
120234,419.58041958042,4,1,0,90,1,8
120234,-68.9655172413793,4,1,0,90,0,0
120443,405.405405405405,4,1,0,90,1,8
120443,-71.4285714285714,4,1,0,90,0,8
120645,410.958904109589,4,1,0,90,1,8
120645,-70.4225352112676,4,1,0,90,0,8
120850,526.315789473684,4,1,0,90,1,8
120850,-54.9450549450549,4,1,0,90,0,8

Preview of the timings:


Skylish's timing: https://puu.sh/w2btU/546eccf2d3.rar

- 01:59:864 - / 02:00:234 - your original notes are too early hit.

> 02:00:234 - This barline should be omitted as it should be the 3rd beat of the entire BPM shifting section: 01:58:889 - 1st beat, 01:59:540 - 2nd beat

> 02:00:642 - I can feel a bit delayed for the last two notes 02:00:853 (1,1) - . The problem goes wrong due to this timing's BPM setting imo. BPM=146 is better (green timing point 1.42x).

Then shift the notes accordingly afterwards, and the notes are snapped more accurately.

* I also did some minor BPM shiftings except the above mentioned major issues.

> 01:03:214 - about time signature this time, adding a 5/4 right here match the whole music already, with the removal of the one at 01:05:522 - .

All strong base drum hit the metronome, then re-shifted back to 4/4 in the Kiai.

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

• [maziari's Hell Oni]

1. 00:15:258 (101) - refer to Virtuoso
   >changed.

Skylish wrote:

[Maziari's hell Oni]

> 01:19:078 - why do use 1/3 patterns here? The piano melody shows a really clear 1/4 pattern develop up to 01:19:944 - . Meanwhile, 01:19:367 - has a developing piano high-pitch melody, breaking at 01:19:439 - looks really weird, though I can understand you wanna emphasize the base of piano at 01:19:511 - , it can be done in another way:

01:19:078 (636) -

- 01:19:223 - there's alerady a notice for high-pitch piano melody pre-built, it's absolutely note worthy for a kat.

- 01:19:511 - changed it to d for a better contrast with high-pitch melody. Base part is supposed to be don except drum kick (not this situation).
>change to "d.k.d.kkddk_kdkkddk (1/3+1/4+1/2)".
To emphasize the cymbal, it's need to devide two.
Also, kat of "kdkkddk" is expressing a naturally ties of sound.

osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: MANIERA.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 17060
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Normal
StackLeniency: 0.7
Mode: 1
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

[Editor]
DistanceSpacing: 1.3
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 32
TimelineZoom: 2.899999

[Metadata]
Title:MANIERA
TitleUnicode:MANIERA
Artist:D(ABE3)
ArtistUnicode:D(ABE3)
Creator:_yu68
Version:maziari's Hell Oni
Source:BMS
Tags:abe yuta vulkin mrriichi maziari1105 maziari bof2011 dwmω encore piano
BeatmapID:941146
BeatmapSetID:400761

[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:6.6
CircleSize:6.6
OverallDifficulty:6.6
ApproachRate:6.6
SliderMultiplier:1.4
SliderTickRate:1

[Events]
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//Storyboard Sound Samples

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118889,324.519230784833,4,1,0,90,1,0
118889,-88.8889423076923,4,1,0,90,0,0
119863,360.576923076923,4,1,0,90,1,8
119863,-80,4,1,0,90,0,0
120223,408.653846153846,4,1,0,90,1,0
120223,-70.5865384615385,4,1,0,90,0,0
120835,540.865384615385,4,1,0,90,1,8
120835,-53.3317307692308,4,1,0,90,0,0
121105,288.461538461538,4,1,0,90,1,0

OnosakiHito wrote:

Proper answer to Mrrichi's mod is needed.

Mrriichi wrote:

えっとTwitterで言った通りModしに来ましたkudosu5000兆個欲しいのでDQしませんか？
多分、ランクドというものを考えた時に_yu68さんと私とでは前提が違い過ぎるものがあると思いますので、このMod内容に直して欲しいというより私が適当にこのマップを貶していた訳ではないという証拠のつもりで書いてます。なので私の指摘の内容が受け入れられないものだとしても「そういう自分と違う考え方が世にはあるし、その考え方もランクドのやり方として一般に許容されるものの一つ」という風には思って欲しいです。

[Virtuoso]
※細かい指摘も一応一部しますがInnerのMapなので、そこは好みで済ませられるかもしれません。
この譜面について私が思う最大の問題点は譜面全体を見たときに1/8のパターンがあるパートが悪目立ちしてしまってる点です。
悪目立ちと私が言う根拠は1/4より密集したノーツである1/8ないし1/6のノーツが、このパート並みにとは言わなくてもこれに準ずるレベルで密集した地帯が他にない（1/8はそもそもこのパートでしか使われてなく、1/6も最長のものが4連で前後は1/4ばかり）だという事です。
更にこの1/8がある地帯は00:36:027 - から5小節と譜面の前半の中央にあたる部分です。目立つ配置なら最後に置くか、中央の休憩地帯の直前に置くか、サビに置くか、もしくは最初の最初にあえて置くか、何かしらの譜面全体の構成で意味を持つ場所に置くのが難所（難所に見えるところ）を綺麗に見せるコツだと思いますが、現在の1/8は上記の内容に沿う事無く前半のそこそこ譜面が流れた後にやって来ます。これは譜面全体を見たときにマイナスポイントであるとしか言えないです。

しかし、この1/8連符は確かに逆餡蜜的な手法を使えば実質16分長連符と変わりませんし（そこがこの譜面がpp譜面だと言われる所以だと思いますが）プレイの上では簡単ではありますのでシステム的なSRの計算法のバグだと言えば難易度は均衡を保てていると考えられるかもしれません。
けれども、例え1/8を1/4の長連符扱いをしたとしても

ココが

こうなるだけで、単音の4連続を交互に繰り返した長連符をココに入れるのは、この1/8を1/4の長連符だと見做すと仮定しても前後のdとkの配置と比べて浮いているとしか言えません。前後のdとkの配置にddkkddkk~やddddkkkk~のようにパターンが繰り返されているものは（一番短い繰り返しのパターンであるddkkdやkkddk等5連1/4を含んでも）どこにもありませんので1/4の簡単な配置だと捉えたとしても浮くのは変わりがありません。他のパートでも長複合を置くとしたら00:41:291 - から休憩地帯前までの前半と後半とかオススメです。休憩地帯前に置けてかつ複合をそこそこ難しくすれば1/8の浮きは抑えられると思います。 私自身はこのズレたピアノの音が曲の特徴、面白さ、そして個性の一部だと思っています。似たようなメロディや雰囲気の中で1/8のような今までとは全く異なる展開をする。それがいわゆる曲を活かした、"その曲でしかできないようなマッピング"として適切なものだと考えています。りいちさんが言うように、目立つ場所に難所や特徴的な配置を置くことで譜面が綺麗に見えるという考えにも共感できます。ですがそれはあくまで一般論、全ての曲に共通して適用できてしまうことであり、その一般論に過度に忠実に従って譜面を作ることは、譜面を普遍的なありふれたものにし、曲の音や展開が持つ面白さを無駄にすることになると思います。そのため私はその個性を重視して譜面に変更は加えません。りいちさんの言葉を借りて、「そういう自分と違う考え方が世にはあるし、その考え方もランクドのやり方として一般に許容されるものの一つ」という風に思って欲しいです。

以上が譜面全体からこの地帯をパッと見た（プレイした）時に感じられた事です。

次にこの配置内の細かい配置についての指摘です。
一応これらの指摘はこの配置が音取りマッピングであるという前提の元、よりマシなパターンに出来ないかという方針の元に書いています。
このパートだけを見て最初に思ったのは1/8と1/2の置き方が謎だという事です。
例えば00:31:916 -と00:34:224 - が1/8でないのは音の強さ的におかしいですし、00:36:387 (341,342) - も1/8でないのも音が明らかに小さいと判断した為かもしれませんが1/2ごとに段階的に音が小さくなっていくパートでそこだけ1/2というのはおかしいと考えます。
なので00:31:916 -を普通に1/8にして00:33:070 - が音が下がってる事を利用して1/2にするのはどうでしょうか、また後半も00:34:224 -と00:36:387 - を1/8にする事で1/8のパターンが終了する
面倒臭いので現在の譜面全体の方針を尊重したVirtuoso (Mrriichi Patch)でも後で張っとくので参考にして下さい、私の譜面の配置でそこはありえんだろとか何故その配置にしたかとか疑問があったら細かいところはIRCModで(Not for Rankedだから厳密にはModじゃないかもしれないですけど)いつでも待ってます。

他に全体を見た時に気になった点はkiaiとkiaiと同じメロディである00:17:060 -～00:26:291 -（以下A）と01:07:252 -～01:15:328 -（以下kiai）です。
これらのパートはそれぞれの前半（00:17:060）と後半（00:21:676 -から）とで同じメロディーの中、難易度差を作ってますがその難易度ギャップが激しすぎます。前半が1/2だらけで後半が1/2単音が3,4個しかないというのは明らかに同じメロディラインの隣接したパートとして見た時おかしいです。（00:41:291 -からの同じメロディが入ってるパートは良いと思います）
またAとkiaiのノーツ配置自体を比べた時も違和感を覚えます。kiaiの後半ではシンバルが鳴っているので難しくするという判断は正しいですが、Aとkiaiの前半を比べるとkiaiの方が簡単であるように見えます（1/4の5連00:18:791 - と3連01:08:982 - なのでそもそものそれぞれの前半と後半の難易度ギャップからすれば大した差ではないかもしれませんが）。また01:10:136 - の突然の5連もAで対応する場所に1/4はなく、何故Aとkiaiの前半がこんなにスカスカで似たような1/4配置になってないのか理解できません。後は例えばそれぞれの前半と後半の繋ぎの00:20:378 (166,167,168,169,170,171,172,173,174,175,176) - と01:10:569 (47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57) - は同じノーツ配置になってないのか、統一性のなさを上げたらAとkiaiのノーツを総入れ替えする羽目になってしまうので細かくは言いませんが、曲もしくは譜面のの盛り上がりであるはずのkiaiとそれと同じメロディである曲もしくは譜面の大事なポイントであるべき場所がこの様な配置になってるのは本当によろしくないと思います。 上記同様に曲特有の音を重視しkeepします。AとKiaiの前半は1/2のピアノの音が全面的に主張してくるように感じるので、1/2への肉付けを極限まで減らすことでプレイヤーがそのピアノの音を意識してプレイしやすいように意図したつもりです。後半からは細かいドラム音が入ってくるので1/4を配置しても演奏感に差し支えは無いと判断しました。この密度差はりいちさんの考え方で見ると不適切かもしれませんが、1/8を含むパートと同じように、私はそれが曲の個性・面白さだと考え、前半と後半で全く違う構成をしています。

最後にパッと全体を見て気になった事と言えば00:50:522 -からの休憩地帯の1/2のノーツライン（1/2の連符の塊の長さ）がバラバラだって事です。1/2しかない休憩であるからって叩くリズムをばらけさせては休憩になりにくいと思います。もしくは適度なタイミングで1/4の3連をオーバーマップする等、見て「この休憩地帯は同じパターンの繰り返しで譜面の配置が見やすいから気楽に出来る」と思える内容にすべきだと思います。ノーツの長さが違う事によるリズム難は立派な難易度の一部だって事です。 ノーツの長さが違う事によるリズム難は立派な難易度の一部かもしれませんが、これほどの難易度の譜面をプレイできるプレイヤーとなるとその程度の難易度の譜面は難なく処理できるように思います。ワンパターンにまとめる必要は無いように感じました。

以上で全体的なノーツ配置に関する指摘は以上ですが、全体的なマッピングの仕方の指摘をすると以前_yu68さんが言っていた音取りを重視したマッピングというものを見てこの譜面の音を聞いてみてパート、もしくはそれに内包する規則性のあるメロディ毎に明らかに音取りする楽器の差が出ている印象はありませんでした。
つまり、どういう事かというとこの譜面の音取りはその場で音取りしたい楽器の音をとりあえず音取りして、それを同じメロディで繰り返す事によって無理やりパターンだ、強調だと主張している様に感じられるという事です。（多分、この投稿の後に具体的にどの配置か指摘すると思います）

他にも何か言う事が出来たらわかりやすくP.S.みたいにして追加します
maziariさんの譜面は_yu68さんの以上にそもそも私の譜面の作り方とかけ離れてる気がするので指摘が無意味になるのが目に見えてるのでしません。
私のVirutuoso (Mrriichi Patch)みたいなのはそのうち暇になったら出します。今回大事なのは全体的なパターンだと思っているので重要度は薄いからです。
私の譜面の良いと思うところは後ろのboxに入れて近々書きます。
とりあえず、以上で。

Raiden wrote:

114 BPM on the last timing point sounds too late, try 118

tasuke912 wrote:

Objectively speaking, the difficulty doesn't have any patterns issues. Some people don't like 1/8s, but many more people like them judging from amount of favorites and rating. No need to remove 1/8s.

[ Timing]

118889,324.519230784833,4,1,0,90,1,0
118889,-88.8889423076923,4,1,0,90,0,0
119863,360.576923076923,4,1,0,90,1,8
119863,-80,4,1,0,90,0,0
120223,408.653846153846,4,1,0,90,1,0
120223,-70.5865384615385,4,1,0,90,0,0
120835,540.865384615385,4,1,0,90,1,8
120835,-53.3317307692308,4,1,0,90,0,0
121105,288.461538461538,4,1,0,90,1,0

I think it is better to put redlines at positions of turntable notes.

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

Placeholder for recheck. I will look into it when I have time.

[ Eon Fox ] wrote:

追加してくださいドンに 00:36:423 (342) - そしてまた 00:36:532 (343,344) - . 流れはずっと良いです。 I keep it because the piano sounds are weak. Also, in order to prevent the 1/8 pattern becoming too long.

Skylish wrote:

Sorry to shatter pp farmers' dream, but those 1/8 are really overmapped after 00:35:522 - , and the positions of the acceptable 1/8 douplets are currently wrong.

Skylish wrote:

Sorry to shatter pp farmers' dream, but those 1/8 are really overmapped after 00:35:522 - , and the positions of the acceptable 1/8 douplets are currently wrong.

MMzz wrote:

Virtuoso is fine the way it is except all of the 1/8 doubles the difficulty originally had should come back.

This map was fine before it got modded to hell.
Good luck yu <3

OnosakiHito wrote:

Some words about the 1/8 since many people discuss in general about it and are actually not sure what to think about them or often argue with the fun factor which has no place here. There was already some discussion for this in thread as well, but only about the possibility to have 1/8, but none which gives actually new ideas for other solutions without 1/8.

As previously said, the intention of the mapper, trying to catch the grace notes, is pretty clear. However, going more in depth, the Virtuoso difficulty can be doubted in this matter since the snapping of these notes can't be clearly indentified and make the 1/8 not very accurate. Due to this, before considering any fun factors or the mapper's intention following the unique sound, we should look at what other solutions we can bring up and compare it to current ones because, before this goes anywhere near qualification, we will have to talk about this and find a real agreement / conclusion (Nardo wants to say something about it as it seems).

00:32:060 - Three examples of patterns which are more accurate to the song than current 1/8.
(following the drums in the background, HL'd note = finisher)
(following the drums, alternating patterns with pitch of piano)
(following piano with finishers, grace notes get emphasized by the longer tone of finishers)
The map is consistenty following the rhythm of piano, so suddenly following the rhythm of drum in this part is strange.
Also, finishers will emphasize one strong sound like cymbal, so I think it's not suitable for grace notes.

00:34:368 - Some other examples for the longer 1/8 part.
(following the drums)
(following drums and make the 1/6 feel more consistent with additional improvised 1/6)
(following notes with finishers)
I keep it for same reasons.

>> For the lazy guys: Download to all three examples<<<

Overall, for me it boils down to having better solutions than the currently inaccurate 1/8. The 1/6+1/2 follows more accurate the drum while the finisher solution actually compensates the loss of 1/8 and goes well with the piano(also it feels kind the same playing 1/8 or finishers, but that's just me lol). To be fair tho, the 1/8 are consistent in itself and do not seem to bother that much sound wise or when playing. Yet, this should be probably discussed with some more people and consider more solutions before we consider going with 1/8. Afterall, everyone talks only about 1/8 but no one suggests or tries something else.

So yeah, I encourage everyone to help activily in this matter and test stuff out to find either a middle-way, better solutions or even go for the 1/8.


On another note, I will give later a comment about your answer to my mod, _yu.

Kin wrote:

Another opinion is here I guess.

From what Ono said, I think, following the drum shouldn't be an option in this case. The diff is following the piano so much, that'll just be more inconsistent.
also, even tho, the note density from ono's example are still higher than the Hell Oni, the SR is quite a problem here.

Aside from this, here is my opinion about it : all 1/8 such as 00:32:060 (286,287,288,289,290,291,292,293,294,295,296,297,298,299,300,301) - are clearly following the piano which are 1/12 or 1/16. I personally find it okay, since, I don't think playing 1/16 or 1/12 this way is "this fun". (it's even skipping the glissando here 00:32:902 - ).

According to how he mapped those weird 1/16~1/12 piano as 1/8. I'd say, it's already a "midway solution". A midway of a midway would be quite weird. I'd say, the current one is ok.

[]

Aside from this, on Virtuoso, how about this 01:01:628 (558,559,560,561,562) - . I think, it goes better with the piano acceleration. good, changed

Surono wrote:

me nub explain

00:49:873 - at least add here notes bcus follow piano, the piano is 1/6 but use 1/4 instead if you dont like xxxxxxx 1/6 I think it need to make 1/2 to emphasize 00:49:945 - here.

01:01:628 - like Kin said, 01:01:772 - 1/6 sounds. you can change the colors pattern to dd(kkkd) to give neat increasing emphasis with the paino, more easier tho I applied Kin's suggestion, because I want to make a pattern in which d stepwise increases.

1/8 is oki, I already pointd out 00:36:387 (341,342) - these as single notes b4.

bye gl

Skylish wrote:

Actually I was supposed to post with concerns about 1/8 usages but not timing issues lol, anyway.... (No KDS)

[Virtuoso]

! 00:35:522 - From this timing onwards, those 1/8 douplets are virtual *they are overmapped. The background music does not have 1/8 anymore. The whole 1/8 usage structure can be justified from barline:

> 00:32:060 - 1 bar full of 1/8

> 00:34:368 - ^, and that's all for 1/8.

> 00:36:676 - / 00:37:253 - These can be Finishers now when you remove all unnecessary 1/8 douplets.
The background music does have sounds like 1/8. Please listen the song again.

! These 1/8 are all wrongly placed. The WHOLE douplets are put 1/8 too early. For example, 00:32:205 (288,289) - should be actually starting at 00:32:169 - *oh wait Skylish if I do so then the spacing between the patterns at 00:32:060 - will not be enough. --> no worry
About this, I mentioned in reply to Raiden's mod. -> https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/6021511

! 00:32:060 - / 00:34:368 - Strong piano chords are performed, you may use D/K respectively to represent it well. Not only stating the chords, but also polishing the overall patterns' outlooks (talking about consistent metronome Finishers)
The map follows consistent the piano. I would like to take a policy to follow the piano unless the sounds of piano is drowned out by the sounds of drum.

! 00:31:880 - / 00:34:188 - actually there are 1/8 douplets here, you can alrady use ONE 1/8 douplets here to act as a little warning for the players for the upcoming hellish 1/8 spamming.
I might add it if it's not unrankable.

tl;dr, my suggestion is that:

- 00:32:060 (287) -

> You can see those 1/8 douplets are now all snapped correctly to the right timings in the photo.
I keep it because of same reason as 00:32:205 (288,289) - .

- 00:34:368 (314) -

> It's completely the same logic with 00:32:060 (287) -
Same.

[]


Sorry to shatter pp farmers' dream, but those 1/8 are really overmapped after 00:35:522 - , and the positions of the acceptable 1/8 douplets are currently wrong.
This is not overmapping. Current 1/8 doublets is the best pattern I concluded after much consideration. It never only for pp.

Skylish wrote:

I am sorry to veto again, about your mod reply as there's contradiction in your mapping concept overall speaking:

1. The mis-matching 1/8 douplets

> Yes I acknowledge the existence of 1/8 douplets after 00:35:522 - , but they are barely noticable during gameplay from my perspective.

! However, as you are going to COMPLETELY follow the piano, as you stated in the mod reply, why don't you keep the this intention in these mis-matching 1/8 douplets at 00:32:060 - / 00:34:368 - ? Having these douplets starting from yellow tick is NOT weird as the music goes in this way. If you alter the rhythm/ go against the music, then that'd be really WEIRD.
Nope, I insisted that "I am taking a policy to match the atmosphere of piano rather than matching it completely with the sound of the piano". (Perhaps this is misunderstood because my English is not fluent.)

Yeah, I guess you are going to keep your intention about the positions, but let's talk about some musical theory:

Those ( 00:34:512 - / 00:34:657 - / 00:34:801 - /etc. ) concrete melodies have accompaniments right before 1/8 beat. In general music, accompaniments are ALWAYS played BEFORE the MAIN MELODY. Maniera is the case I mentioned. Leaving melody notes as ending does make sense, in terms of musical theory and game-play effect in osu!taiko as well.
I can't agree in terms of game-play. In a dense snap like 1/8, I think that the player will feel rhythm at the start point rather than not the end point of the patterns. It may not be so in a map which 1/8 is mainly used. At least in this map, many players will feel the rhythm at start points of 1/8s.

You may question: Players may feel uncomfortable about the rhythm there! I am sorry to say that, yes, and this is how the music goes itself.
Taiko is a game. Rather than following music theory, map should be considered for players.


2. Finishers usage according to your mapping concept

Alright you seemed reject using Finishers to replace the 1/8 douplets at 00:32:060 - / 00:34:368 - . On another side you said you want to follow the piano very concretely. I suppose that you are talking about the WHOLE PIANO, but not some parts of it. Piano contains PEDALS and CHORDS , both are used for strengthening the dynamic. How about Finishers usage in Taiko? Strengthening the dynamic!
In the same way, I keep it to match the atmosphere of piano, and in order to be comfortable the game-play.

The timings I mentioned have very clear and strong piano chords with pedals on. If you are going to follow the piano NOTES, which also includes CHORDS, please consider again.

qoot8123 wrote:

Hello!
I have some Timing/Patterns suggestions about Virtuoso :

From 00:59:753 - ~01:02:060 - I found that you use d to represent lowering beat, but look back to 00:50:522 - ~00:59:753 - you make a 1/1 rest moment to emphasize the piano on 00:50:522 (481,488,503,510,524) - only 00:56:435 (518) - is different (consider the piano sound is sort of different between 00:50:522 (481,488,503,510,524) - and 00:56:435 (518) - ,so I think it is reasonable). Then, start from 00:57:445 - , the note density is increased ,you also emphasize piano pretty well on 00:58:527 (532,533,534) - by using different snap. but on 00:59:753 (542,543,544,545) - it not only conflict the your mapping idea in former part, but also on 01:00:474 (546,547,548,549,550,551,552,553,554,555,556,557,558,559,560,561,562,563) - which mainly use 1/3 to follow piano . So I suggest you try to follow piano on 00:59:753 - ~01:02:060 - would be more consistent with former part and represent piano more clear. there is a reference.
I almost changed but I putted d at 00:59:897 - because I want to emphasize base sound at here. I also think it will make the natural flow to the next 1/3 + 1/4 + 1/6 stream.

And about the timing signature(metronome) on 01:02:060 - ~01:07:252 - I feel this part's metronome is 3/4 , it not only match the timing you originally set in 01:05:522 - but also fit the former part's beat. fixed the timing point

That's what I concerned, good luck for your beatmap

Felt7z wrote:

Good morning, yu.

[Virtuoso]
気になった点があったのでちょっと文句言いに来ました！ｗ

00:28:479 -
00:30:786 -
00:31:940 -
00:34:248 -
この4箇所に1/8として音符が置かれていない(過去のmodで削除された？)理由が分かりません。
ピアノ音に合わせるために1/8を使うなら、その方針で統一するためにこの4箇所にも音符を追加する必要があるはずです。逆にこれを追加しなければ正しく音取りをしているとは言えず、1/8を含んだ配置の正当性を主張する上での根拠に欠けると思います。
上記2つに関して、 00:28:310 - 00:30:618 - この2音のそれぞれの主張が強く、その直後にあるピアノの音の雰囲気は打ち消されているように感じます。好みの問題かもしれませんが、ここは1/8を置かない方が自然に感じました。
残りの2つに関して、こちらは確かに1/8が適するような雰囲気を感じますが 00:32:060 - 00:34:368 - この2つをそれぞれ強調する意図も兼ねて小節線の場所から1/8を開始しています。別のmodderに再度指摘されたら変更するかもしれません。

あと個人的な好みなんですが、もし1/8を新たに追加した場合は、音階の関係で 00:31:916 のとこはdd、00:31:916 (285) のとこはkkのほうが音に合っているような気がします。

議論ややこしくしてすみませんが時間があるとき適当にお返事ください

collapsed text

Hi! A masturbation opinion as one of nerd player of taiko is here.

I know too many Taiko wise men have talked about Virtuoso difficulty and viewed this forum and I got numbed.
I've excepted this map would be a dawn of new Taiko mapping history.
Quantity of favorites says how this map is expected,I think.


Objectively speaking, this difficulty is fine, several BNs said so and I agree it.
And I'm sorry,let me talk more.

I guess no rule about 1/8s can disturb the way of rank.
Regarding to 1/8 double notes.,they are ACTUALLY and CERTAINLY placed to the music(or rather piano)
This part requires only the skill;beating big notes with 200BPM.
Who the hell criticizes if this has a lot of big note?
And this map also does not have fatal technical problem in any other sections.
Broadly speaking,any sections in this map would NOT spoil playability or something like it.

Now is the time to let MANIERA revert to typical ranking process!

1. 00:33:070 (300,301) - dd? 音程的になんかそんな気がしたんですけど、僕の気のせいかもしれません
2. 00:35:666 (331,332) - 00:36:243 (339,340) - dd? 音程もなんですけど、なんだか同じ配置が続いて冗長な感じがしたので小節単位でバリエーション付けたいなと思いました

1. 01:16:122 (107) - 01:17:276 (119) - これら削除して、直後のノーツを1/4文後ろにずらすのどうですか？
   なんかメリハリついてて僕は好きです。どういうことかというとこういうことです。
   

1. 00:36:820 (1,1) - 00:37:397 (1,1) - これ全部1/2ひとつ分右にずらしたい？(ddkdd k ddk ddk k ...)かなってなりました
   強めの音のKが強調されて僕は好きです！

ManP wrote:

collapsed text

Hi! A masturbation opinion as one of nerd player of taiko is here.

I know too many Taiko wise men have talked about Virtuoso difficulty and viewed this forum and I got numbed.
I've excepted this map would be a dawn of new Taiko mapping history.
Quantity of favorites says how this map is expected,I think.


Objectively speaking, this difficulty is fine, several BNs said so and I agree it.
And I'm sorry,let me talk more.

I guess no rule about 1/8s can disturb the way of rank.
Regarding to 1/8 double notes.,they are ACTUALLY and CERTAINLY placed to the music(or rather piano)
This part requires only the skill;beating big notes with 200BPM.
Who the hell criticizes if this has a lot of big note?
And this map also does not have fatal technical problem in any other sections.
Broadly speaking,no section in this map would NOT spoil playability or something like it.

Now is the time to let MANIERA revert to typical ranking process!

そういえばmod頼まれてたのを思い出したのでちょっと提案書いて去ります
[Virtuoso]

1. 00:33:070 (300,301) - dd? 音程的になんかそんな気がしたんですけど、僕の気のせいかもしれません 直後の1/4 ddkdkへ移行しやすいようにする意図で、この部分においては音程よりも直後のパターンと対の配色をとることを優先したいです。
2. 00:35:666 (331,332) - 00:36:243 (339,340) - dd? 音程もなんですけど、なんだか同じ配置が続いて冗長な感じがしたので小節単位でバリエーション付けたいなと思いました 前者のみを適用しました。後者に関しては、前者を適用することで譜面の変化と音程の表現は十分だと判断したため、配色が片方に偏りすぎることを避ける意図でkkとします。

[Muzukashi]

1. 00:36:820 (1,1) - 00:37:397 (1,1) - これ全部1/2ひとつ分右にずらしたい？(ddkdd k ddk ddk k ...)かなってなりました
   強めの音のKが強調されて僕は好きです！ good, changed

200ポストもされてたらあんま書くことなかった！ :3

Good luck you guys

iloveyou4ever wrote:

Hi,some suggestion about the map NO KUDOS
[Virtuoso]
>00:28:455 - change to d?
>Because the piano pitch here drops,and it can reflect the piano pitch change here I want to focus the difference between 00:28:455 - and 00:28:599 - .
>00:30:618 - again change to d?
>same reason same
>00:32:782 - change like this? https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8225250
>00:32:782 (296,297,298,299) - it's like these four timestamps have similar piano pitch,and the pitch drops at 00:33:070 - ,so I think using kk kk
here can present the music in a better way. Similarly, I'm focusing the difference between 00:33:070 - and 00:33:214 - .
>01:11:795 - remove this
>I think the new music part starts from 01:11:867 - ,and I think remove 01:11:795 - can let the ''connection'' become better,and also easy to distinguish the new music part.It can emphasize the piano sound at 01:11:867 - as the first beat too changed
>01:51:750 - change to k
>the piano pitch of ''high-high-low''(kkdkkdkkd...)continue at this point,so I think changing to k can keep the music consistency as well fitting the music more. changed

Nofool wrote:

I think a BN rule says "Being able to reasonably play a beatmap is a core part of being able to judge a beatmap's quality", looking at your profile you should probably avoid the Virtuoso difficulty for now

ManP wrote:

そういえばmod頼まれてたのを思い出したのでちょっと提案書いて去ります

[Mrriichi's Inner Oni]

1. 01:16:122 (107) - 01:17:276 (119) - これら削除して、直後のノーツを1/4文後ろにずらすのどうですか？
   なんかメリハリついてて僕は好きです。どういうことかというとこういうことです。
   

単体で見れば悪くないですが前後に偶数連打の1/4がないため統一性の観点からなしで

200ポストもされてたらあんま書くことなかった！ :3

Good luck you guys

Skylish wrote:

Speaking of the extent of fitting of patterns with music, it is not really appetizing and suitable imo. However, I am done with my concerns as yumuya is not going to change anything once he can explain his intention, although I disagree with.

Leave the things to QATs now, and I wish you good luck.

k3v227 wrote:

...zzz

Unmei Muma wrote:

you tryna tell me there's 64th triples
then yeah

BUT 96TH or 64th triplets for the music nerds
I CANNOT BELIEVE IT

Even though by waveform analysis and close listening using AV i came to the same conclusion for 64th triples, 32nd doubles should be the way to go.
your maniera is slower tho it says 120 bpm :thinikng:

iloveyou4ever wrote:

[maziari's Hell Oni]
>01:45:043 - add finisher?
>since you are mapping to the ''snare'' sound(idk if it's XDD),and you also put finisher at 01:45:476 - ,so I think you should also change 01:45:043 - to finisher too to keep the consistency.
I want to give player an irregular impression so nochanged.
>01:58:745 - add d here?
two reasons
1.to connect both the music part,since you're mapping to piano here,and there's piano here too,so I think adding d here can have a better
''connection'' of two music parts here.
2.Difficulties consistency,since like virtuoso and Inner Oni,there are notes here,and three difficulties are also mapping to the piano sound in this
music part,so I think difficulty consistency should also be put into consideration.
>hm. I think that consistency is unnecessary in difficulty above Inner Oni. Rather than that, individual sense of play should be given priority imo.
>In here, notes is placed along the drum, also in order to concentrate the player's consciousness on the outroduction, I placed a 1/1 break.
>I think sence of play is more important than accurate sound pickuping.