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D(ABE3) - MANIERA [Taiko]

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Lumenite-
I'm simply going to state some facts, with an opinion sprinkled here and there.

Someone brought up Skylish isn't qualified enough to judge this map-this statement isn't completely false. "Do not nominate a beatmap if you cannot reasonably judge it. Being able to reasonably play and analyze a beatmap is a core part of being able to judge a beatmap’s quality. If you are multiple tiers below the playing level of the map and do not excel with outstanding amount of experience and expertise, we may call your ability to judge it into question." The key words here are "multiple tiers below." Skylish definitely is NOT the ideal nominator to call into question the legitimacy of Virtuoso's structure, however his opinion nonetheless is still valuable, as are all opinions.

That being said, it is another fact that the 1/8 doublets plotted in this map are an attempt to emphasize the presence of grace notes. I don't need to explain what a grace note is, but I do need to emphasize the fact that quite often leaving a grace note out in a musical composition will have little to no effect on the overall effect of the music. It's quite like an ornament on a Christmas tree-it makes it look nice, but the tree can easily go without it. That is the reason that many symphonic directors in my experience will tell the band to ignore the grace note, because leaving it out will not effect the music as much as you might think.

Here's my opinion on the 1/8 usage-it's necessary, but not completely. In the first string of 1/8's the only true calling for 1/8 is for notes 00:32:926 (292,293,294,295) - . The rest sound just fine as 1/1. On the second, much longer usage however, the long 1/8 string that _yu68 has mapped cannot simply be left as 1/1-it should be left as 1/8 doublets, just as it was in the 8.06* version.

The map can use simplification FAR past what I think, and to me the 1/8 argument is simply divided half between people who want the pp and people who are striving for musical accuracy. Surely there is a way to compromise and make all parties happy without hindering someone's hard work from becoming ranked.

Good luck with the rank, _yu68.
Nardoxyribonucleic
Here is the follow-through mod for the whole set after the heated discussion.

  • [Vulkin's Kantan]
  1. 00:42:734 and 00:43:022 - consider adding k here for a more balanced spread ? Currently its gap with Futsuu is rather big due to the dense 1/1 arrangements in Futsuu.
  2. 00:45:041 (62) - you may move this note to 00:44:464 - and change to d if you apply ^ for pattern variety. Then you can add finish at 00:45:331 (63) - for better emphasis.
  3. 00:47:349 and 00:47:637 - same as 00:42:734 -
  4. 00:49:657 (72) - similar to 00:45:041 (62) - , you may move this note to 00:49:080 - and add finish at 00:49:946 (73) -
  5. 01:06:386 and 01:06:675 - similar to 00:42:734 - , adding d here would help reduce the gap.
  6. 01:14:751 and 01:15:040 - same as ^
  7. 01:18:213 and 01:18:501 - similar to ^ , adding k at these spots would work well.
  8. 01:23:694 and 01:23:982 - same as 01:06:386 -
  9. 01:53:408 - same as 00:42:734 -
  • [Futsuu]
  1. 01:12:300 - consider adding k here to make this part more interesting to play ? This would also result in a better spread with Muzukashii.
  • [Muzukashii]
  1. 00:49:512 - maybe add d here to cohere with the pattern length at 00:44:609 (2,1,2,3,1,2,1) - ?
  • [Oni]
  1. 00:24:849 (1,1) - swapping these notes to k d would help reflect the pitch decrease of piano there.
  2. 00:33:070 (1) - changing this note to d would fit the sudden pitch drop well.
  3. 01:14:175 (2,3,4,5,1,1,2,3) - similar to 00:24:849 - , maybe try k d k k d d k k here ?
  • [Mrriichi's Inner Oni]
  1. 00:02:061 - I think you need to lower the hitsound volume to about 45% so that the soft background beats would not be overemphasized.
  2. 00:02:782 - you may add a green line here with 90% volume for the drums.
  • [maziari's Hell Oni]
  1. 00:15:258 - pattern inconsistency with 00:39:488 -
  2. 00:25:570 (193,194,195,196) - I think this 1/6 pattern is really questionable as the background piano is clearly 1/4. Please consider replacing this with 1/4 kdk so that the piano could be followed in a more appropriate way.
  3. 01:10:713 (536,537,538,539,540,541,542,543,544) - similar to ^ , replacing these 1/6 notes with 1/4 kkd would be fine here.
  4. From 01:42:735 to 01:49:658 - would you mind justifying the use of 1/2 + 1/4 patterns in this session ? I think they should be mapped with 1/3 ones to respect the background music.
  • [Virtuoso]

    After some further considerations, I think you may keep the 1/8 doublets to decorate the scattered background piano although there exists possible alternatives like consecutive 1/2 big notes or longer 1/4 streams.
  1. 00:33:070 (300,301) - similar to Oni, you may change both notes to d with respect to the pitch of piano.
  2. 00:56:868 - this note could be k to serve as an increase in kat density starting from 00:54:272 - . It would be less repetitive compared to 00:55:570 (512,513,514,515,516,517) - as well.
  3. 01:00:089 (544) - maybe delete this note as mentioned in Ono's post ? This would emphasize the cymbals occurring at 00:59:897 (543,545) - nicely.
You may call me back after that~ :D
Topic Starter
_yu68

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

Here is the follow-through mod for the whole set after the heated discussion.

  • [Futsuu]
  1. 01:12:300 - consider adding k here to make this part more interesting to play ? This would also result in a better spread with Muzukashii. :arrow: added
  • [Muzukashii]
  1. 00:49:512 - maybe add d here to cohere with the pattern length at 00:44:609 (2,1,2,3,1,2,1) - ? :arrow: added
  • [Oni]
  1. 00:24:849 (1,1) - swapping these notes to k d would help reflect the pitch decrease of piano there. :arrow: changed only 00:24:849 (1) - to k in order to emphasize 00:25:137 -
  2. 00:33:070 (1) - changing this note to d would fit the sudden pitch drop well. :arrow: i would keep in order to make ease of playing next 1/4
  3. 01:14:175 (2,3,4,5,1,1,2,3) - similar to 00:24:849 - , maybe try k d k k d d k k here ? :arrow: changed
  • [Virtuoso]

    After some further considerations, I think you may keep the 1/8 doublets to decorate the scattered background piano although there exists possible alternatives like consecutive 1/2 big notes or longer 1/4 streams.
  1. 00:33:070 (300,301) - similar to Oni, you may change both notes to d with respect to the pitch of piano. :arrow: same as oni, i'd keep it for ease of playing
  2. 00:56:868 - this note could be k to serve as an increase in kat density starting from 00:54:272 - . It would be less repetitive compared to 00:55:570 (512,513,514,515,516,517) - as well. :arrow: changed
  3. 01:00:089 (544) - maybe delete this note as mentioned in Ono's post ? This would emphasize the cymbals occurring at 00:59:897 (543,545) - nicely. :arrow: considering the flow, i think it's better to follow the piano rather than the cymbal (since 00:58:383 (531,532) - 00:59:248 (538,539) - etc are following piano)
You may call me back after that~ :D
Thanks mod :3
m421

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

  • [maziari's Hell Oni]
  1. 00:15:258 - pattern inconsistency with 00:39:488 -
    >changed 00:39:488: to same rhythm as 00:15:258: .
  2. 00:25:570 (193,194,195,196) - I think this 1/6 pattern is really questionable as the background piano is clearly 1/4. Please consider replacing this with 1/4 kdk so that the piano could be followed in a more appropriate way.
    >Surely each sound is 1/4, but if listen as a continuous sound, this sounds like a glissando. So to express it, 1/6 is necessary imo.
  3. 01:10:713 (536,537,538,539,540,541,542,543,544) - similar to ^ , replacing these 1/6 notes with 1/4 kkd would be fine here.
    >01:11:867: ~ is climax part, so I raised before there density the most intelligent means of excitement, also to distinguish the rhythm with 01:11:434 (549,550,551,552,553,554,555,556,557,558,559):, I think this 1/6 is necessary.
  4. From 01:42:735 to 01:49:658 - would you mind justifying the use of 1/2 + 1/4 patterns in this session ? I think they should be mapped with 1/3 ones to respect the background music.
    >In this difficulty, I picked up sound percussion rhythm mainly. This is consistent. So suddenly picking up the sound of a only piano by ignoring the percussion rhythm is unnatural imo. Also since the flow to here has been raised by the percussion rhythm, so connecting percussion rhythm is natural.
.osu
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Vulkin

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

Here is the follow-through mod for the whole set after the heated discussion.

  • [Vulkin's Kantan]
  1. 00:42:734 and 00:43:022 - consider adding k here for a more balanced spread ? Currently its gap with Futsuu is rather big due to the dense 1/1 arrangements in Futsuu. Added
  2. 00:45:041 (62) - you may move this note to 00:44:464 - and change to d if you apply ^ for pattern variety. Then you can add finish at 00:45:331 (63) - for better emphasis.Changed, although i changed some previous notes, because although i like variety, note position consistency is something that i would like for it to remain.
  3. 00:47:349 and 00:47:637 - same as 00:42:734 - ^
  4. 00:49:657 (72) - similar to 00:45:041 (62) - , you may move this note to 00:49:080 - and add finish at 00:49:946 (73) - Done
  5. 01:06:386 and 01:06:675 - similar to 00:42:734 - , adding d here would help reduce the gap. Added in other places but on the same section
  6. 01:14:751 and 01:15:040 - same as ^Added
  7. 01:18:213 and 01:18:501 - similar to ^ , adding k at these spots would work well. Added, i hope they wont be nuisance for lack of break though o-o
  8. 01:23:694 and 01:23:982 - same as 01:06:386 - I added something at 01:26:001 - & 01:26:290 - so it maintains consistency (same piano pattern), and deleted 01:27:444 - 01:28:598 - to give a break accordingly
  9. 01:53:408 - same as 00:42:734 - added
You may call me back after that~ :D
Thanks for the mod ^^

Magic Box
osu file format v14

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TitleUnicode:MANIERA
Artist:D(ABE3)
ArtistUnicode:D(ABE3)
Creator:_yu68
Version:Vulkin's Kantan
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Tags:abe yuta vulkin mrriichi maziari1105 maziari bof2011 dwmω encore piano
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256,192,23985,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,24561,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,25137,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,25426,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,25715,1,12,0:0:0:0:
256,192,26291,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,26868,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,27445,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,28599,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,29176,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,29753,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,30907,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,31484,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,32060,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,33214,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,33791,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,34368,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,35523,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,36677,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,37254,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,37831,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,38118,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,38408,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,38695,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,38985,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,41292,1,4,0:0:0:0:
256,192,41868,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,42157,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,42446,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,43022,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,43599,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,44177,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,44464,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,44754,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,45331,1,12,0:0:0:0:
256,192,45908,1,4,0:0:0:0:
256,192,46484,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,46772,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,47061,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,47637,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,48214,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,48791,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,49080,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,49368,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,49369,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,49945,1,12,0:0:0:0:
256,192,50523,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,51677,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,52831,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,53985,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,55138,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,56292,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,57446,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,58310,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,59176,1,0,0:0:0:0:
32,32,59753,2,0,B|480:32|480:32|480:352|480:352|384:352,1,840
256,192,62060,5,12,0:0:0:0:
256,192,62348,12,0,63790,0:0:0:0:
256,192,64367,5,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,64656,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,65521,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,66098,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,66675,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,67253,1,4,0:0:0:0:
256,192,67829,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,68406,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,69560,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,70137,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,70714,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,71002,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,71291,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,71868,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,72444,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,73022,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,74175,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,74751,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,75040,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,75329,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,75906,1,12,0:0:0:0:
256,192,76483,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,77060,1,12,0:0:0:0:
256,192,77637,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,78213,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,78501,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,78791,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,79367,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,79945,1,12,0:0:0:0:
256,192,81098,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,82252,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,82829,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,83406,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,83694,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,83982,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,84560,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,85137,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,85714,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,86001,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,86290,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,86868,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,88022,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,89176,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,89751,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,90328,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,90905,1,8,0:0:0:0:
480,32,91482,2,0,B|32:32|32:32|32:96,1,480
256,192,93505,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,94370,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,94947,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,95812,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,97255,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,98120,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,98985,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,99562,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,100428,1,8,0:0:0:0:
32,32,101581,2,0,B|448:32|448:32,1,360
256,192,102735,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,103601,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,104178,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,105043,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,105908,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,106485,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,107351,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,107927,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,108504,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,109080,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,109658,1,12,0:0:0:0:
256,192,110812,1,12,0:0:0:0:
256,192,111966,1,12,0:0:0:0:
256,192,113120,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,113408,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,113696,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,114274,1,12,0:0:0:0:
256,192,114851,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,115428,1,12,0:0:0:0:
256,192,116581,1,12,0:0:0:0:
256,192,117158,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,117735,1,12,0:0:0:0:
256,192,118889,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,119538,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,120223,12,0,121105,0:0:0:0:
[ Eon Fox ]

Skylish wrote:

Firstly, I would like to clarify that: I am not aiming at popping any 1/8 doublets since they are uncommon, it's not my target at all. My focus is always on the usage and and matches of notes with music.

Speaking back to the screenshots you provided before, thanks for providing the MIDI source of Maniera which is utterly supporting my points of view in Virtuoso actually. I am pretty confident that the current usage of 1/8 doublets are mis-matched as you can see the starting points of them (Measure 27/28). It is incomprehensible for me to understand.

Taiko is more like a base matching with the music, rather than just a game mode fitting players' common senses and expectations.
I disagree.

First off, you claimed your focus is "always on the usage of and matches of with music (I'm assuming that's what that tragedy of a sentence says)". This clearly is not the case. The 1/8s are a reduction from 96th triplets (in osu terminology, 1/12 triplets), using the secondary and tertiary notes in each triplet, which makes for 1/8 duplets. You cannot reduce that to 1/6 doublets, because that loses 33% of the notes for no reason. That matches nothing.

Second, the MIDI in no way supports your very flawed viewpoints. Your "pretty confident" conclusion is completely counter to what both the full MIDI and base reductive melody of the MIDI state with provable and tangible computer data, and such data was independently verified by Gezo's waveform analysis. There are definitively 1/8 duplets occupying the space at 00:36:423 - and 00:36:568 - , and this has been proven by two separate users using perfectly precise computers.

Your hunch is in no way superior in weight to empirical computer data, and you yourself said that it is incomprehensible for you to understand. That would be because you lack the knowledge to understand the underlying concepts at work. Perhaps your most egregious statement is when you stated, "Taiko is more like a base matching with the music, rather than just a game mode fitting players' common senses and expectations."

I can hardly put into words how much I disagree. The common sense and expectations of the player ARE that what they see and play matches the music. That is the entire point of a rhythm game: players work on the assumption the music and the gameplay elements are happening in synchronicity. The song very clearly calls for 1/8 duplets at 00:36:423 - and 00:36:568 - , and only an imbecile would believe otherwise in the fact of overwhelming data.

That sudden shift to 1/6 for two notes (with four heard) is absurd and awkward.
[ Eon Fox ]

_yu68 wrote:

_yu68 wrote:

update: added 1/8 doublets at 00:36:423 - and 00:36:568 - based on some people's post.
:arrow: deleted it by raiden's veto
そして私はあなたに尋ねる、それらを返す。 私を含め何人かが、1/8ダブレットの存在のために実質的な証拠を与えました。 SkylishとRaidenはここで間違いがあります。 あなたはそれらの1/8ダブレットなしManieraをランク付けした場合には、マッパーとして、そして太鼓コミュニティにあなたに大きな害になります!
Topic Starter
_yu68

[ Eon Fox ] wrote:

そして私はあなたに尋ねる、それらを返す。 私を含め何人かが、1/8ダブレットの存在のために実質的な証拠を与えました。 SkylishとRaidenはここで間違いがあります。 あなたはそれらの1/8ダブレットなしManieraをランク付けした場合には、マッパーとして、そして太鼓コミュニティにあなたに大きな害になります!
I'm understanding it.
However, in order to re-add 1/8 doublets, I need to find a nominator who agree it.
No change for now. Sorry.
[ Eon Fox ]

_yu68 wrote:

[ Eon Fox ] wrote:

そして私はあなたに尋ねる、それらを返す。 私を含め何人かが、1/8ダブレットの存在のために実質的な証拠を与えました。 SkylishとRaidenはここで間違いがあります。 あなたはそれらの1/8ダブレットなしManieraをランク付けした場合には、マッパーとして、そして太鼓コミュニティにあなたに大きな害になります!
I'm understanding it.
However, in order to re-add 1/8 doublets, I need to find a nominator who agree it.
No change for now. Sorry.
私はSuronoやTatsukeがそれを指名してくれると喜んでいると確信しています。 どちらもBNであり、どちらもVirtuosoのようであり、両方ともRaidenよりも説得しやすい。 私はTatsukeをお勧めします。彼は1/8ダブレットの決定をサポートしているだけでなく、マップも好きです。
Topic Starter
_yu68

[ Eon Fox ] wrote:

私はSuronoやTatsukeがそれを指名してくれると喜んでいると確信しています。 どちらもBNであり、どちらもVirtuosoのようであり、両方ともRaidenよりも説得しやすい。 私はTatsukeをお勧めします。彼は1/8ダブレットの決定をサポートしているだけでなく、マップも好きです。
I guess they don't have time to recheck it.
Skylish
I have no idea how the modders/ passers-by check my previous mods, but probably they get the wrong idea all the time, smh.

If yu thinks that 1/8 doublets starting on the on-beat is smoother and sounds better, then just do that. However it does not affect a single word in my suggestion, I am okay with yu's new arrangement once he can explain the rationale behind. (and he did it for several times already I guess, including the one with Raiden's)

Still, asking for someone who suggest concrete ideas to shut up and go away is kinda ignorant and dumb. Making any unnecessary personal attack does not help the map at all, unless you think neglect any impt suggestions is a good deed.

From now one, good luck on the ranking process. 頑張ります!
Vulkin
is this the end of drama?

please be it...
Shadowa Pinkman
When I play Virtuoso first time, I was thinking what yumuya emphasized grace notes with. I thought it would be finisher, 1/4 stream or just 1/2 snapped notes. I saw 1/8 doublets and said "Oh my god.If the mapper was me, I would not think to map here like that". They fit perfectly and create clear structure. If there were finishers, 1/4 or 1/2 snapped notes, it would not fit at all. People criticized this part because they thought it was for free pp. That's why there was heated discussion. So can you guys give suggestion which will IMPROVE the map (the map doesn't need modding or suggestion now,too late lol)? When you try to find another ways instead of 1/8 doublets due to "free pp", it's getting more ridiculous.

Well,I did not write it to insult anyone or imply anything. I just wanted to write it to relax, because it will get more complex if you guys continue finding mistakes stubbornly.Anyway,good luck yumuya!
Maya Tendo

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

  • [Mrriichi's Inner Oni]
  1. 00:02:061 - I think you need to lower the hitsound volume to about 45% so that the soft background beats would not be overemphasized.
  2. 00:02:782 - you may add a green line here with 90% volume for the drums.
    no change because same reason as this
You may call me back after that~ :D
no change
[ Eon Fox ]

_yu68 wrote:

[ Eon Fox ] wrote:

私はSuronoやTatsukeがそれを指名してくれると喜んでいると確信しています。 どちらもBNであり、どちらもVirtuosoのようであり、両方ともRaidenよりも説得しやすい。 私はTatsukeをお勧めします。彼は1/8ダブレットの決定をサポートしているだけでなく、マップも好きです。
I guess they don't have time to recheck it.
私はTasukeと話しただけで、彼は1/8ダブレットが返されたら彼がマップを指名する意思があると述べた。
yuzu__rinrin
Kantan
00:49:368 (72,73) - Concurrent object, fix please. W
Topic Starter
_yu68

yuzu__rinrin wrote:

Kantan
00:49:368 (72,73) - Concurrent object, fix please. W
fixed.
Vulkin

yuzu__rinrin wrote:

Kantan
00:49:368 (72,73) - Concurrent object, fix please. W
sorry for doing that ;_;
thanks _yu68 for fixing it
Surono
Yeh I have time but not really interest too since this is a mapset, thought is this hell discussion are about pp 1/8 pattern? even Im fine with that lol really, maziari quote gg "Taiko is a rhythm game, not a sequencer imo.". well I let those people who are good at checking spread/rest section density each lower diffs because I saw in discord bns/qat discussion are mostly about patterning/structure with rhythmical or spread issues i guess, if I checking this yeah I will took many time to do it and I had my own interest for other maps tho

good luck with the ranking process and people who are support this map!
Arrival
Rechecked everything let's go ahead already
Topic Starter
_yu68

Arrival wrote:

Rechecked everything let's go ahead already
Thank you!
I'm waiting for the answer to my question from Nardo. (About whether notes can be added to 00:36:423 - and 00:36:568 - )
Horiiizon
Bubbled again!
Nardoxyribonucleic

_yu68 wrote:

I'm waiting for the answer to my question from Nardo. (About whether notes can be added to 00:36:423 - and 00:36:568 - )
Please leave that to me. I will recheck it as soon as possible.
Vulkin
HYPE
Tyistiana
Hi, yumuya~
Please note that this is only my suggestion, so feel free to deny them. :D
Take this one not seriously, like friendly modding~
This is only my curiosity.

[Vulkin's Kantan]
00:17:060 - I'm afraid that this pitch is not strong enough to use D , or at least maybe it's same pitch as 00:21:676
00:24:560 - Change to d might be better, to make a difference between this note and 00:23:984
00:39:272 - Very strong pitch here, how about add D here?
01:06:098 - Hmmm, how about k , to make a difference between this note and 01:05:521
01:11:002 - How about change to d to match somethings you've do it before as 00:20:810
01:11:290 - Change to K , same reason above.
01:15:040 (19,20) - Change to k might be better, to emphasize the pitch here.

[Futsuu]
00:04:945 - How about delete this? Almost voiceless to make the beginner player understand this rhythm.
00:13:022 - Delete, similar reason to 00:14:464. Or if keep 00:13:022, please consider to add note on 00:14:464. To prevent player confuse the rhythm here.
00:39:272 - Same suggestion on Kantan , strong pitch here, how about add D here? maybe it's same reason why you add note here like 00:32:060 (maybe?)
00:41:724 - I love this one too, but how about we follow the piano pitch instead. Like this?

I find that this will be better, and which it's help to make we able to emphasize the piano here 00:43:310 and player will not confuse about it.
00:46:339 - Same :3
00:49:945 - How about d? , might be fitter.

[Virtuoso]
00:04:296 - How about delete this note to emphasize 00:04:368. To match the thing that you've emphasize the similar pitch as 00:06:099
00:04:368 - If follow my upper suggestion, then change this to D might me better.
00:05:450 - In my opinion, this one to o. Same reason above as to emphasize the pitch like 00:05:522
00:29:609 - How about add note here? Still have a pitch here.
00:29:825 - How about add d here? Due to this pitch have a drag voice.
00:30:618 - Shouldn't be d here? To make a difference between this note and 00:30:762. Because pitch on 00:30:762 have a piano pitch while 00:30:618 have not any piano pitch.
00:33:106 - For now, delete this note in case of 00:36:423 / 00:36:568 which it have similar pitch and it have been deleted too. I think that this point is a great example to discuss on the 00:36:423 / 00:36:568. And if you consider to add note back on 00:36:423 / 00:36:568 Please consider it again to add this back.
00:34:260 - How about make this doublet too? In my opinion. Because for me, I think that it's have something same on 00:34:404
00:36:423 / 00:36:568 - This is only my opinion. I didn't consider about pp on this part. I consider by how rhythm deserve to place note in which way. Since the pitch of the piano going down and this pitch is the lowest pitch. So If I were you. I'll have 2 choices in my mind.
1. Add note here, for the inner while playing, since I've test to play this map too, I'm very confuse why these isn't a doublet as others. If we consider to map this for the fun and for the inner while playing. Add it back might be good!
2. Keep, in case of this pitch isn't give a way in 1/8 that much. It's almost voiceless enough to not use 1/8 here.
Please wait for Nardo's answer might be the best choice. I'm not the experience mapper. ;;w;;

I hope this will be help even a little.
Good luck for ranked~ :)
Topic Starter
_yu68

Tyistiana wrote:

Hi, yumuya~
Please note that this is only my suggestion, so feel free to deny them. :D
Take this one not seriously, like friendly modding~
This is only my curiosity.

[Futsuu]
00:04:945 - How about delete this? Almost voiceless to make the beginner player understand this rhythm. :arrow: Triplet is easier to understand rhythm than doublet imo.
00:13:022 - Delete, similar reason to 00:14:464. Or if keep 00:13:022, please consider to add note on 00:14:464. To prevent player confuse the rhythm here. :arrow: From 00:12:445 - , xxx_xxx _..., I think that it's a enough simple rhythm.
00:39:272 - Same suggestion on Kantan , strong pitch here, how about add D here? maybe it's same reason why you add note here like 00:32:060 (maybe?) :arrow: I wouldn't put it for consistency with 00:15:041 - .
00:41:724 - I love this one too, but how about we follow the piano pitch instead. Like this?

I find that this will be better, and which it's help to make we able to emphasize the piano here 00:43:310 and player will not confuse about it. :arrow: changed
00:46:339 - Same :3 :arrow: same
00:49:945 - How about d? , might be fitter. :arrow: I changed instead 00:49:657 (1,2) - to dd considering the pitch.

[Virtuoso]
00:04:296 - How about delete this note to emphasize 00:04:368. To match the thing that you've emphasize the similar pitch as 00:06:099 :arrow: I think that it's sufficiently emphasized by difference between k and d.
00:04:368 - If follow my upper suggestion, then change this to D might me better. :arrow: I didn't change because of ^.
00:05:450 - In my opinion, this one to o. Same reason above as to emphasize the pitch like 00:05:522 :arrow: I would like to emphasize 00:05:089 (28,29,30,32) - those sounds.
00:29:609 - How about add note here? Still have a pitch here. :arrow: added + 00:27:301 (243) - added k
00:29:825 - How about add d here? Due to this pitch have a drag voice. :arrow: I would keep to emphasize 00:29:753 (266) - .
00:30:618 - Shouldn't be d here? To make a difference between this note and 00:30:762. Because pitch on 00:30:762 have a piano pitch while 00:30:618 have not any piano pitch. :arrow: I want to give priority to the cymbal because they sound clearer than the pitch.
00:33:106 - For now, delete this note in case of 00:36:423 / 00:36:568 which it have similar pitch and it have been deleted too. I think that this point is a great example to discuss on the 00:36:423 / 00:36:568. And if you consider to add note back on 00:36:423 / 00:36:568 Please consider it again to add this back. :arrow: I would also consider QAT and other modder's opinions. keep for now
00:34:260 - How about make this doublet too? In my opinion. Because for me, I think that it's have something same on 00:34:404 :arrow: I would keep it considering playability.
00:36:423 / 00:36:568 - This is only my opinion. I didn't consider about pp on this part. I consider by how rhythm deserve to place note in which way. Since the pitch of the piano going down and this pitch is the lowest pitch. So If I were you. I'll have 2 choices in my mind.
1. Add note here, for the inner while playing, since I've test to play this map too, I'm very confuse why these isn't a doublet as others. If we consider to map this for the fun and for the inner while playing. Add it back might be good!
2. Keep, in case of this pitch isn't give a way in 1/8 that much. It's almost voiceless enough to not use 1/8 here.
Please wait for Nardo's answer might be the best choice. I'm not the experience mapper. ;;w;; :arrow: As mentioned above, I'd wait for Nardo and other modder's opinion.

I hope this will be help even a little.
Good luck for ranked~ :)
Thank you for modding :)
Vulkin

Tyistiana wrote:

Hi, yumuya~
Please note that this is only my suggestion, so feel free to deny them. :D
Take this one not seriously, like friendly modding~
This is only my curiosity.

[Vulkin's Kantan]
00:17:060 - I'm afraid that this pitch is not strong enough to use D , or at least maybe it's same pitch as 00:21:676 was following the cymbal
00:24:560 - Change to d might be better, to make a difference between this note and 00:23:984 tried to make it different from 00:19:368 - , but ill make 00:23:985 (29) - d so theres still difference
00:39:272 - Very strong pitch here, how about add D here? added it, but removed 00:38:695 -, dont want crowded notes (took me like 20 minutes to decide how to do it LOL)
01:06:098 - Hmmm, how about k , to make a difference between this note and 01:05:521 wanted to contrast the pitch of 01:06:098 (4) - and 01:06:675 (5) - , as its larger than 01:05:521 (3) - and 01:06:098 (4) - imo
01:11:002 - How about change to d to match somethings you've do it before as 00:20:810 Done ^^
01:11:290 - Change to K , same reason above. ^
01:15:040 (19,20) - Change to k might be better, to emphasize the pitch here. 01:15:039 (19) - changed to k, so next note has some consistency with the d K d K pattern im trying to use

I hope this will be help even a little. it did help ^^ thanks!
Good luck for ranked~ :) thanks alot for mod :3/
Thanks for mod!
did some changes on my own (added a few finishers)

Update box
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Nardoxyribonucleic
@maziari: Your explanations of 1/6 usage at 00:25:570 (193,194,195,196) and 01:10:713 (538,539,540,541,542,543,544,545,546) - are not really convincing as there are no 1/6 sounds at all to support those notes. As only distinct 1/4 sounds can be heard in the background, please reconsider changing them to 1/4 patterns or something else.

@yu: Concerning your question, I have an idea that you may consider as an alternative suggestion of pattern arrangement. Since the stress sounds occur at 00:34:368 - 00:35:522 - 00:36:676 - 00:37:253 - , you may rearrange the 1/8 sequence by moving 00:35:414 (330) to 00:36:423 - so the more stress-intensive part at 00:36:676 - could be emphasized and the overall structure from 00:34:368 to 00:36:676 - would be more organized compared to the current state.

Call me back.
Topic Starter
_yu68

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

@yu: Concerning your question, I have an idea that you may consider as an alternative suggestion of pattern arrangement. Since the stress sounds occur at 00:34:368 - 00:35:522 - 00:36:676 - 00:37:253 - , you may rearrange the 1/8 sequence by moving 00:35:414 (330) to 00:36:423 - so the more stress-intensive part at 00:36:676 - could be emphasized and the overall structure from 00:34:368 to 00:36:676 - would be more organized compared to the current state.
It's a good idea to emphasize stress sounds. However, in this way, if players hit by using their hands alternately, the hand hitting 00:34:368 - and the hand hitting 00:35:522 - would be opposite. This is very difficult for part of players imo. Since 1/8 are a very unique arrangement, I want to be able to play it as easily as possible.
In the way of deleting 00:35:270 - and 00:35:414 - , it can't show enough the distinctive sounds. For consistency, ease of playing, and matching the song, I want to add the notes.

Edit: Fixed forgetting to write time-code.
m421

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

@maziari: Your explanations of 1/6 usage at 00:25:570 (193,194,195,196) and 01:10:713 (538,539,540,541,542,543,544,545,546) - are not really convincing as there are no 1/6 sounds at all to support those notes. As only distinct 1/4 sounds can be heard in the background, please reconsider changing them to 1/4 patterns or something else.
Former: It's undesirable because the feeling of piano is diminished,but I moved 1/6 to the place where the sound is ringing.
Also, I adjusted 00:49:657: to the background sound.

Latter: It certainly isn't a 1/6, but also it isn't even a 1/4. The tom's sound ringing here is like a roll, so 1/4 can't express it.
Since there is no way to express accurately, I chose 1/6. If I fill this in 1/4, it'll become flat and a boring map.

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256,192,115860,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,115932,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,116004,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,116077,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,116149,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,116221,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,116293,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,116365,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,116437,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,116509,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,116581,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,116726,1,4,0:0:0:0:
256,192,116870,1,4,0:0:0:0:
256,192,117014,1,4,0:0:0:0:
256,192,117158,1,6,0:0:0:0:
256,192,117303,1,6,0:0:0:0:
256,192,117447,1,6,0:0:0:0:
256,192,117591,1,4,0:0:0:0:
256,192,117735,1,4,0:0:0:0:
256,192,117879,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,117952,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,118024,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,118096,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,118168,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,118240,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,118312,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,118384,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,118456,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,118529,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,118601,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,118889,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,118970,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,119051,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,119132,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,119213,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,119538,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,119619,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,119700,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,119781,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,119862,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,120223,1,6,0:0:0:0:
256,192,120427,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,120529,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,120631,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,120835,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,121105,1,4,0:0:0:0:
Nardoxyribonucleic
Had some discussions with yumuya in the game. Log as stated below.

IRC check with _yu68, Sep 8, 2017
19:37 _yu68: Hello :3
19:37 Nardoxyribonucleic: Hi :3
19:38 *Nardoxyribonucleic is listening to [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/871924 D(ABE3) - MANIERA]
19:40 Nardoxyribonucleic: First of all, I still think maziari's use of 1/6 at 01:10:713 (539,540,541,542,543,544,545,546,547) - is not very appropriate, but well I'm going to be a bit lenient about it now
19:44 _yu68: I think the 1/6 is showing drum roll well
19:47 Nardoxyribonucleic: Main drum beats falls on 1/4 while there is an extra beat at 01:11:110 -
19:47 Nardoxyribonucleic: That is why I would suggest 1/4
19:47 Nardoxyribonucleic: The rolls are not even snapped in 1/6
19:48 Nardoxyribonucleic: I would not suggest mapping that extra beat as the snaps would be too irregular to follow
19:49 Nardoxyribonucleic: Yet 1/6 would not be the best choice here, that is my stance
19:49 Nardoxyribonucleic: But well as I said, I'm more lenient about this pattern now.
19:50 Nardoxyribonucleic: So maziari may keep that in case he still strongly insists
19:51 _yu68: I see
19:52 Nardoxyribonucleic: Then about Virtuoso
19:53 Nardoxyribonucleic: What was the 1/8 pattern arrangement agreed by Raiden upon his bubble?
19:53 Nardoxyribonucleic: i.e. [https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/6021558 this post]
19:57 Nardoxyribonucleic: I need to take that as reference to make comparison
19:58 _yu68: tasuke had said that he can qualify
19:58 Nardoxyribonucleic: He agreed with the current version or?
19:59 Nardoxyribonucleic: Agreed with adding 00:36:423 - 00:36:568 - d
19:59 Nardoxyribonucleic: which one?
19:59 _yu68: yes
19:59 _yu68: Absolutely impossible to ignore raiden's veto?
20:00 Nardoxyribonucleic: You need two other nominators' override
20:01 _yu68: It's Arrival and tasuke
20:02 Nardoxyribonucleic: So both of them agreed with the current version?
20:02 _yu68: Probably
20:03 _yu68: The map has not changed much since they agreed
20:03 _yu68: p/6126340
20:03 _yu68: and,
20:04 _yu68: https://twitter.com/tasuke912/status/877143037066878977
20:04 _yu68: tasuke is saying "If there is no one who QFs MANIERA, I can do it."
20:06 Nardoxyribonucleic: Okay. Before letting you guys move on, one more question.
20:09 Nardoxyribonucleic: 00:35:270 (328,330) - these two are actually similar spots with 00:36:423 - 00:36:568 - . I would like to know the reason of the difference, like why not using at 00:35:234 - and 00:35:378 - as well
20:10 Nardoxyribonucleic: I mean the use of 1/2
20:12 _yu68: as I said in forum, I mapped as 1/8 to make ease of hitting.
20:16 _yu68: ah
20:16 Nardoxyribonucleic: ?
20:17 _yu68: means "why am I using 1/2 there"?
20:17 Nardoxyribonucleic: I was asking why the representations at 00:35:234 (327,328,329,330) - and 00:36:387 (343,344) - are different
20:18 Nardoxyribonucleic: Like, why don't you use 1/2 at the former pair as well
20:22 _yu68: I deleted some 1/8s by raiden's veto, but I can't explain the difference in representations caused by them. I'm sorry
20:22 _yu68: They were the same 1/8 in the older version
20:24 Nardoxyribonucleic: I see. I wondered about the difference because structure-wise, deleting 00:35:270 (328,330) - as well would be more coherent.
20:25 Nardoxyribonucleic: And you talked about hand alternation previously, so I'm mentioning this now
20:26 _yu68: I guess that 1/8 and 1/2 confuse would make players confused
20:28 Nardoxyribonucleic: Hmm so, you think that 14 pairs of 1/8 are better than 6-2-6-2?
20:30 _yu68: I think that it is easy to decide how to hit, although the density is high
20:33 Nardoxyribonucleic: Alright. You may ask Arrival for rebubble and tasuke to requalify then.
20:33 _yu68: Could I add 1/8 to 00:36:423 - and 00:36:568 - ?
20:37 Nardoxyribonucleic: That is why I asked about the inconsistencies lol
20:38 _yu68: Thanks, and I apologize for my verrrrry poor English._.
20:38 Nardoxyribonucleic: Considering the factor of full alternation together, you have two choices of pattern: Either delete 00:35:270 (328,330) - or add 00:36:423 - 00:36:568 -
20:39 Nardoxyribonucleic: So I think you may choose between these two options regarding pattern consistency
20:40 _yu68: I understand.
20:41 Nardoxyribonucleic: Hmm, so you preferred the latter
20:41 _yu68: chose the later and updated the map
20:42 Nardoxyribonucleic: I guess that is all from my side at the moment. You may ask Arrival and tasuke now.
20:43 _yu68: Thanks so much :3
Arrival
yes
Topic Starter
_yu68

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

Had some discussions with yumuya in the game. Log as stated below.

IRC check with _yu68, Sep 8, 2017
19:37 _yu68: Hello :3
19:37 Nardoxyribonucleic: Hi :3
19:38 *Nardoxyribonucleic is listening to [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/871924 D(ABE3) - MANIERA]
19:40 Nardoxyribonucleic: First of all, I still think maziari's use of 1/6 at 01:10:713 (539,540,541,542,543,544,545,546,547) - is not very appropriate, but well I'm going to be a bit lenient about it now
19:44 _yu68: I think the 1/6 is showing drum roll well
19:47 Nardoxyribonucleic: Main drum beats falls on 1/4 while there is an extra beat at 01:11:110 -
19:47 Nardoxyribonucleic: That is why I would suggest 1/4
19:47 Nardoxyribonucleic: The rolls are not even snapped in 1/6
19:48 Nardoxyribonucleic: I would not suggest mapping that extra beat as the snaps would be too irregular to follow
19:49 Nardoxyribonucleic: Yet 1/6 would not be the best choice here, that is my stance
19:49 Nardoxyribonucleic: But well as I said, I'm more lenient about this pattern now.
19:50 Nardoxyribonucleic: So maziari may keep that in case he still strongly insists
19:51 _yu68: I see
19:52 Nardoxyribonucleic: Then about Virtuoso
19:53 Nardoxyribonucleic: What was the 1/8 pattern arrangement agreed by Raiden upon his bubble?
19:53 Nardoxyribonucleic: i.e. [https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/6021558 this post]
19:57 Nardoxyribonucleic: I need to take that as reference to make comparison
19:58 _yu68: tasuke had said that he can qualify
19:58 Nardoxyribonucleic: He agreed with the current version or?
19:59 Nardoxyribonucleic: Agreed with adding 00:36:423 - 00:36:568 - d
19:59 Nardoxyribonucleic: which one?
19:59 _yu68: yes
19:59 _yu68: Absolutely impossible to ignore raiden's veto?
20:00 Nardoxyribonucleic: You need two other nominators' override
20:01 _yu68: It's Arrival and tasuke
20:02 Nardoxyribonucleic: So both of them agreed with the current version?
20:02 _yu68: Probably
20:03 _yu68: The map has not changed much since they agreed
20:03 _yu68: p/6126340
20:03 _yu68: and,
20:04 _yu68: https://twitter.com/tasuke912/status/877143037066878977
20:04 _yu68: tasuke is saying "If there is no one who QFs MANIERA, I can do it."
20:06 Nardoxyribonucleic: Okay. Before letting you guys move on, one more question.
20:09 Nardoxyribonucleic: 00:35:270 (328,330) - these two are actually similar spots with 00:36:423 - 00:36:568 - . I would like to know the reason of the difference, like why not using at 00:35:234 - and 00:35:378 - as well
20:10 Nardoxyribonucleic: I mean the use of 1/2
20:12 _yu68: as I said in forum, I mapped as 1/8 to make ease of hitting.
20:16 _yu68: ah
20:16 Nardoxyribonucleic: ?
20:17 _yu68: means "why am I using 1/2 there"?
20:17 Nardoxyribonucleic: I was asking why the representations at 00:35:234 (327,328,329,330) - and 00:36:387 (343,344) - are different
20:18 Nardoxyribonucleic: Like, why don't you use 1/2 at the former pair as well
20:22 _yu68: I deleted some 1/8s by raiden's veto, but I can't explain the difference in representations caused by them. I'm sorry
20:22 _yu68: They were the same 1/8 in the older version
20:24 Nardoxyribonucleic: I see. I wondered about the difference because structure-wise, deleting 00:35:270 (328,330) - as well would be more coherent.
20:25 Nardoxyribonucleic: And you talked about hand alternation previously, so I'm mentioning this now
20:26 _yu68: I guess that 1/8 and 1/2 confuse would make players confused
20:28 Nardoxyribonucleic: Hmm so, you think that 14 pairs of 1/8 are better than 6-2-6-2?
20:30 _yu68: I think that it is easy to decide how to hit, although the density is high
20:33 Nardoxyribonucleic: Alright. You may ask Arrival for rebubble and tasuke to requalify then.
20:33 _yu68: Could I add 1/8 to 00:36:423 - and 00:36:568 - ?
20:37 Nardoxyribonucleic: That is why I asked about the inconsistencies lol
20:38 _yu68: Thanks, and I apologize for my verrrrry poor English._.
20:38 Nardoxyribonucleic: Considering the factor of full alternation together, you have two choices of pattern: Either delete 00:35:270 (328,330) - or add 00:36:423 - 00:36:568 -
20:39 Nardoxyribonucleic: So I think you may choose between these two options regarding pattern consistency
20:40 _yu68: I understand.
20:41 Nardoxyribonucleic: Hmm, so you preferred the latter
20:41 _yu68: chose the later and updated the map
20:42 Nardoxyribonucleic: I guess that is all from my side at the moment. You may ask Arrival and tasuke now.
20:43 _yu68: Thanks so much :3

Arrival wrote:

yes
Thanks for helping!
tasuke912
Qualified!
Topic Starter
_yu68

tasuke912 wrote:

Qualified!
Thanks~! have fun :3!
komasy
gratz!
Maya Tendo
Congrats
Tyistiana
Finally, congratz!! :3
milr_
wt
Topic Starter
_yu68

komasy wrote:

gratz!

Mrriichi wrote:

Congrats

Tyistiana wrote:

Finally, congratz!! :3
Thanks <3
Pachiru
Congratz yuuuu!!
Topic Starter
_yu68

Pachiru wrote:

Congratz yuuuu!!
Thank you! :333
[ Eon Fox ]
I am such a happy little fox right now!

おめでとう, yumuya!
Ankanogradiel
recongrats uwu
Surono

[ Eon Fox ] wrote:

I am such a happy little fox right now!

おめでとう, yumuya!
Shadowa Pinkman
Congratz yumuya :3/
Topic Starter
_yu68

[ Eon Fox ] wrote:

I am such a happy little fox right now!

おめでとう, yumuya!

Ankanogradiel wrote:

recongrats uwu

zigizigiefe wrote:

Congratz yumuya :3/
Thanks~~!
nakanotsu nimi
Congrats !!!
Topic Starter
_yu68

Pohm wrote:

Congrats !!!
thanks!!
Carol
Congratulations to Rank! :D
Topic Starter
_yu68

Carol wrote:

Congratulations to Rank! :D
thanks! :)
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