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MAXIMUM THE HORMONE - A-L-I-E-N

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Natsu

Monstrata wrote:

Maybe people downvoted cuz they didn't like me? or that they thought the song was too hard? You can't determine the intention for someone's 1 vote xD. Loctav currently has the most downvoted map on osu. Does that make him or the map bad? No. Some taiko BN's tell me t's actually good... but you can clearly see people DTNF'ing it with like 50 points just to downvote to spite him.
Not in this case and you know it well, people always rate your map goods, it's just that this map is going too far, this is an offense for all these mappers that work alot to get their map rankeds, they don't feel fun with this. I'm wonder if this map get ranked how you'll ask to other mappers to map with quality? I'll feel bad when I ask for improvements and they link me this map as example.
The community reaction is really negative towards this map, that should be enough for you and the QAT team to don't rank this map, since is a community based system..


I'll mod this later as well if I can get the time to do it
jawns

Warpyc wrote:

Obviously the biggest issue with this map is that it's made intentionally worse looking, which is why people dislike it so much, its not like they downvote the map because they dislike Monstrata, actually the community loves monstrata or well at least used to. They are simply trying to make their voices heard in this.

It's obvious that this map has an issue so why not fix the issue instead of ignoring it and shrugging it off with some far fetched it fits the music or whatever, honestly how thick headed can you be, learn to accept some feedback, get off your high horse and fix the actual problem with this map.

I think most of us knows that there lies a good map below this, why dont you bring that map forward instead of this heap of drama and hate that you've managed to bring upon yourself.
Why does a map have to be beautiful for it to be good?
Niko-nyan
Gladi was mention about this and you replied
01:36:505 (2) - The vocals are 1/3 here. Mapping this on a blue tick to somehow follow a bit of vocals is already pretty silly as it stands, but it's also completely wrong in this occasion. No, its 1/4

i totally disagree with your opinion (monstrata's) it's completely 1/3. On 1/4 section, it's just a drum but you're following the vocals

edit : oh well, it 00:00:838 - 05:00:988 -

the break that not mapped is from 00:14:408 - until 00:17:766 - that feels annoying for me

i would add more .-. the ending of this map is quite silly when the music finished on 05:00:596 - and monstrata ends the spinner on 05:00:988 - like somehow it's allowed at all for extending the drain time at all.

.-.
mithew
don't know if its been mentioned before but 00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - is one of the worst patterns you can introduce here, its such an ugly motion and probably impossible to snap to, causing it to have no intensity, which the song calls for. its also pretty annoying to read for no reason

00:41:339 (5) - this slider also feels way too out of place, very annoying to play after hitting the jumps
Enkidu

Pacemaker wrote:

jawns wrote:

Why does a map have to be beautiful for it to be good?
We are approaching the bottom aren't we. The impact's gonna hurt
Not really. A map really doesn't have to be "beautiful" to be good.
Pacemaker

Enkidu wrote:

Not really. A map really doesn't have to be "beautiful" to be good.
Well, as I take it, in the context of the post he quoted, he meant maps having any aesthetic value, not being outright beautiful. And to allow ranked maps be "ugly because the song is ugly" sounds like edgy horseshit to me
hi-mei
well i think this map is decent to be reanked.
but for real there will be no players to actually play this (or even pass)
Enkidu

Pacemaker wrote:

Enkidu wrote:

Not really. A map really doesn't have to be "beautiful" to be good.
Well, as I take it, in the context of the post he quoted, he meant maps having any aesthetic value, not being outright beautiful. And to allow ranked maps be "ugly because the song is ugly" sounds like edgy horseshit to me

Again, not really. The point of mapping is to map a song the way you /feel/ it should be mapped. If someone feels like a map should be ugly, they should map it to look ugly.
DiamondRain

Pacemaker wrote:

fieryrage wrote:

Hey, guys, user rating means literally nothing because half of the time it ends up in a circlejerk instead of showcasing the actual map quality.

just saying
Wtf does that even mean. Collectively hating/liking something does not equal circlejerking. Even good mappers get shit ratings when they fuck up


What it means? It just means that this beatmap was specifically targeted by the osu reddit community to downvote it, if you dont see that, then you're a sad person with low intellect, which you are anyways when I look at your poor attempts to "burn" people. Idk this map, don't really care either but hating on something just because it gets qualified is just stupid. I don't go around and tell people to stop eating tomatoes just because I don't like them.

What's so damn hard in avoiding something you don't like? Your opinion isnt superior to anyone else's so don't act like you're some godsent messias.
riffy
Can we stay on topic and either speak about the map itself in a constructive way or leave the thread?

Thanks.
UrnuryMegiken
Isn't this unrankable without a full difficulty spread? It's not 5 minutes long...
Zare
I'll just leave my 2 cents here as someone who's seen a lot of shit in the past 4 years, has been an avid player, mapped about 100~ different mapsets (not including the maps where I just started the first few seconds only to drop it afterwards), and has modded all kinds of different maps to varying degrees of success.

Looking at this this map, there's one thing no one can deny: It's mapped entirely for the novelty of the speed, slider velocity and erratic movements, as well as ridiculous difficulty.
This is not an inherently bad thing. There have been many people who have done similar things, and there's generally always some kind of backlash, just like with this here.

I think that if this concept is explored and executed properly and with caution, it can result in high quality mapping just like any other.

However I feel that this is not the case here. The concept and idea is fine, but the execution is sloppy. The hitobject placement, the patterns and sliders are deliberately unappealing to make the map has as much of a disjointed feeling as the music. To me, this is rather lazy. Just because the music is fast paced and wild doesn't mean you have to make the mapping ugly to make it fitting. It's not like there's no continuity or consistency in the music, so having the quite literally jumpo around in patterns randomly doesn't seem approppriate to me. Finding the right balance between,clean fast paced jump patterns and literally just putting back and forth fullscreen jumps is something that would increase this maps quality I think.
Then there's the second half of the song, i.e. 02:57:257 - and onward. I feel like going with your idea of mapping you would want this to be much more clean than the previous half because of the contrast in tone and you kiiinda did that by not using those stupid (sorry) sliders anymore, but then you mess up easy blankets like 03:16:894 (5,1) - which feels really offputting, or rather, lazy. Overall it feels like the second half was lacking in concept and just rushed to finish the diff quickly.


Then there's the issue of overmapping. 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - Honestly I have absolutely no idea what you're even trying to do with these. As far as my ears are concerned, there's no 1/4 going on here, and even if you're just going for emphasis on the "vocals", this sounds REALLY awkward, especially since the hitsounds on the slidertails are of the same strength than those on the sliderheads. This literally screams "yeah for the lulz". It isn't supported by the music in any way and should frankly be completely trashed before this map is going for actual ranking. That would apply 02:26:362 - to this entire section of course.

Generally this map gives off a vibe of "because I can", and I don't think that way of thinking should be encouraged. The modding and ranking process right now is pretty fucking frustrating for people with smaller influence or less popularity, and while I'm usually the last one to tell anyone not to make use of their popularity, because in a community like this that means you have worked hard to achieve that status, I really think this map in in its current state in particular is just equivalent to shoving a giant dick into anyone's face that has trouble moving forward much less controversial maps. (long sentence sorry)
Basically what I'm trying to say, I'd be fine with this going for rank if I felt like it had gotten the effort, time and care it needed to really be of quality, which I think isn't the case right now.
riffy

UrnuryMegiken wrote:

Isn't this unrankable without a full difficulty spread? It's not 5 minutes long...
Look at the time when the last spinner finishes, then move to the time when the map starts. It's something around 5:00:100.
Ora

Bakari wrote:

UrnuryMegiken wrote:

Isn't this unrankable without a full difficulty spread? It's not 5 minutes long...
Look at the time when the last spinner finishes, then move to the time when the map starts. It's something around 5:00:100.
so is the "4:48 drain time" a glitch?
Ascendance

Ora wrote:

Bakari wrote:

Look at the time when the last spinner finishes, then move to the time when the map starts. It's something around 5:00:100.
so is the "4:48 drain time" a glitch?
No, osu! site just doesn't take into account final spinners in any map.
Railey2

Zare wrote:

Generally this map gives off a vibe of "because I can", and I don't think that way of thinking should be encouraged. The modding and ranking process right now is pretty fucking frustrating for people with smaller influence or less popularity, and while I'm usually the last one to tell anyone not to make use of their popularity, because in a community like this that means you have worked hard to achieve that status, I really think this map in in its current state in particular is just equivalent to shoving a giant dick into anyone's face that has trouble moving forward much less controversial maps. (long sentence sorry)
Basically what I'm trying to say, I'd be fine with this going for rank if I felt like it had gotten the effort, time and care it needed to really be of quality, which I think isn't the case right now.
I'm gonna be frank here and say that this argument has no place in a beatmap-thread. This is an issue with the ranking system, so take this argument where it belongs and away from here. If the map is rankable, it deserves to be ranked. I feel like many people here are getting sidetracked. I don't care if this is monstrata's or anyone's map, and neither should you, if you want to retain any sense of objectivity. You should look at the map and criticize it as a map - not as "a message that you believe monstrata sends to other mappers and that can only be understood by looking at the bigger picture, aka a flawed ranking system that favors certain mappers more than others".

It's a map, and a good one at that. Not a pretty map, for most people also not a playable map, but hey. I hope it gets ranked and I hope I can be a good enough player to take it on some day.
Zare

Railey2 wrote:

Zare wrote:

Generally this map gives off a vibe of "because I can", and I don't think that way of thinking should be encouraged. The modding and ranking process right now is pretty fucking frustrating for people with smaller influence or less popularity, and while I'm usually the last one to tell anyone not to make use of their popularity, because in a community like this that means you have worked hard to achieve that status, I really think this map in in its current state in particular is just equivalent to shoving a giant dick into anyone's face that has trouble moving forward much less controversial maps. (long sentence sorry)
Basically what I'm trying to say, I'd be fine with this going for rank if I felt like it had gotten the effort, time and care it needed to really be of quality, which I think isn't the case right now.
I'm gonna be frank here and say that this argument has no place in a beatmap-thread. This is an issue with the ranking system, so take this argument where it belongs and away from here. If the map is rankable, it deserves to be ranked. I feel like many people here are getting sidetracked. I don't care if this is monstrata's or anyone's map, and neither should you, if you want to retain any sense of objectivity. You should look at the map and criticize it as a map - not as "a message that you believe monstrata sends to other mappers and that can only be understood by looking at the bigger picture, aka a flawed ranking system that favors certain mappers more than others".

It's a map, and a good one at that. Not a pretty map, for most people also not a playable map, but hey. I hope it gets ranked and I hope I can be a good enough player to take it on some day.
Hence my point that this map could be much better if it had gotten the proper treament in development. I think it could be high quality and suitable for ranking, but isn't. I merely expanded on this and it's reason.
semantics
my opinion is barely worth anything, but i honestly feel like it's just a weird song to map

it basically plays like two entirely seperate songs, it's very frontloaded - with the somewhat recent trend of arbitrarily cutting song lengths, my initial idea was to slice off the slow part, tone down the difficulty a bit and maybe do a full spread? i do understand that full spreads are a lot of effort, but i think a lot of people would be happier to see even a 5.5-6.5 diff on this - 8.3* only is kind of extreme, especially when you had to do spinner bullshit to get to approval time.
OzzyOzrock
i love the song :D
7ambda

dreamless wrote:

my opinion is barely worth anything, but i honestly feel like it's just a weird song to map

it basically plays like two entirely seperate songs, it's very frontloaded - with the somewhat recent trend of arbitrarily cutting song lengths, my initial idea was to slice off the slow part, tone down the difficulty a bit and maybe do a full spread? i do understand that full spreads are a lot of effort, but i think a lot of people would be happier to see even a 5.5-6.5 diff on this - 8.3* only is kind of extreme, especially when you had to do spinner bullshit to get to approval time.
If you cut out the slow part, it'd sound really weird to have it end so abruptly.
hoozimajiget

Bakari wrote:

UrnuryMegiken wrote:

Isn't this unrankable without a full difficulty spread? It's not 5 minutes long...
Look at the time when the last spinner finishes, then move to the time when the map starts. It's something around 5:00:100.
But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?
IamKwaN
Looking through the map, I find some of the inputs provided by the community valid.

Please have your discussion stick to the map only and anything not constructive would be removed.

EDIT:

hoozimajiget wrote:

But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?
I am curious about this.
Sonnyc
00:21:206 (1,2) - aww this nc setting didn't felt cool enough. Starting at (2) would've divided the 1/3 and the 1/2 better, and fit the new vocals better. Didn't spotted that b4.
Shiirn

IamKwaN wrote:

EDIT:

hoozimajiget wrote:

But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?
I am curious about this.
Monstrata artificially added the applause at the end.
AncuL

Pacemaker wrote:

There we have it. This map was, in fact, intended for no one. The only people who are defending it don't care about playing it, they're just trying to get some point across for whatever reason
most people might gave this red vote because of how something like this can be qualified in a few months while there are many, i mean many good maps that is waiting on the pending section. even fort told me that every BN is afraid to qualify his map even though most people playing it gave positive feedbacks
Chippy

IamKwaN wrote:

Looking through the map, I find some of the inputs provided by the community valid.

Please have your discussion stick to the map only and anything not constructive would be removed.

EDIT:

hoozimajiget wrote:

But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?
I am curious about this.
This is a very vague DQ reason "I find some of the inputs provided by the community valid.", it gives the mapper very vague direction on how to make the map rankable again lol.
Mindwaves
But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?
the answer is in the question!

"artificially generated length"

how neat is that? (fucking hell... :cry: )
Topic Starter
Monstrata
I'll give a reply to all mods tomorrow~ Thanks for the dq KwaN. It was going to happen anyways haha.

The song length is extended slightly, though the applause is actually part of the song, on the album version. I just did some tasteful editing.
IamKwaN

Chippy wrote:

This is a very vague DQ reason "I find some of the inputs provided by the community valid.", it gives the mapper very vague direction on how to make the map rankable again lol.
I would say it's not an issue of rankability. It is the community having opinions on the map. We, the QAT, going through the report and found it valid, so we disqualify. Mapper has to discuss with the community on previous (and some future) mods.

So, if you have something contribute to the map, please do not wait!
ac8129464363
isn't that the same thing as what's uploaded on BSS with the hitsounds replaced? I think you're mistaken because your diff is in the same folder and those hitsounds got replaced for both
Topic Starter
Monstrata

deetz wrote:

that's the same thing as what's uploaded on BSS with the hitsounds replaced! I think you're mistaken because your diff is in the same folder and those hitsounds got replaced for both
RoX2_Fang
LOVE this song
LOVE this map
Spaghetti

Noah Alcubierre wrote:

I'd have personally preferred that current mods are not simply entirely rejected in sake of defending the qualification status of the map but instead noted and considered as a real suggestion in case this map gets dq'd so the map COULD be better in a way that the community won't spam a load of "fuck you"s at the map.
Stuff like this is REALLY bugging me. Monstrata said he's gonna take a look at 2 of the posts in-depth because they can be issues. For every other post, he declined every point with concrete reasoning.

Just because someone modded your map doesn't mean their points are valid!!11!1
strickluke


*screams*
chainpullz

Natsu wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

Maybe people downvoted cuz they didn't like me? or that they thought the song was too hard? You can't determine the intention for someone's 1 vote xD. Loctav currently has the most downvoted map on osu. Does that make him or the map bad? No. Some taiko BN's tell me t's actually good... but you can clearly see people DTNF'ing it with like 50 points just to downvote to spite him.
I'm wonder if this map get ranked how you'll ask to other mappers to map with quality? I'll feel bad when I ask for improvements and they link me this map as example.
Honestly this is the biggest reason this map shouldn't be ranked. Even if you can provide a compelling argument otherwise, it still remains the case that this style is indistinguishable from that of a beginning mapper for the vast majority of players.

Skipping the wall of text and getting straight to the point, just because something is rankable, fun, and is somewhat playable doesn't mean it's a good idea to rank it. It takes a maturity level I honestly don't expect from you in order to own up to this. Have fun with your memes I guess.

Edit: For clarification by shouldn't be ranked I mean monstrata himself choosing not to rank his own map.
Shovan

chainpullz wrote:

Natsu wrote:

I'm wonder if this map get ranked how you'll ask to other mappers to map with quality? I'll feel bad when I ask for improvements and they link me this map as example.
Honestly this is the biggest reason this map shouldn't be ranked. Even if you can provide a compelling argument otherwise, it still remains the case that this style is indistinguishable from that of a beginning mapper for the vast majority of players.

Skipping the wall of text and getting straight to the point, just because something is rankable, fun, and is somewhat playable doesn't mean it's a good idea to rank it. It takes a maturity level I honestly don't expect from you in order to own up to this. Have fun with your memes I guess.
I'm just thinking that you can start mapping Tag4 and refer to this for the "the jumps are rankable" argument... Besides imo a song that's clearly below 5 minutes should not be boosted to longer duration just so you don't need to provide a full spread of difficulties.
Franc[e]sco
I've played this on ht and hthr, and IMO the jumps don't feel like "tag4" jumps at all. they're fast, sure, but that's simply because of the sheer speed of the song. I think the map is overall pretty enjoyable even if it's incredibly hard
Dilectus
not sure if the community is ready for this type of difficulty. i mean, only a few people (perhaps) can play it

imo the map aethestically looks like someone experimented way too much and it ended up looking... kinda bad. but it looks like you tried giving the map personality or something
340
well, i'm ok with this map and its ugliness because i understand it somehow lol
but only one thing i want to argue about is an Approach Rate or AR. yeah, i've read your dialogue with broccoly about AR choice (which can be found here btw p/5253277) but you guys seemed to discuss about AR generally, not in the map's context. your map contains many overlaps and crossings and over type of stuff which is may be hard to read. for example, this pattern 02:46:793 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - . it looks like a FUCKING MESS with ar9.7. i tried it with both ARs and yeah, AR10 was the best. same thing applies to 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - and maybe a few other patterns.

you also said

Monstrata wrote:

like, i would play this map for fun, but the AR 10 would turn me off cuz i can't read it and neither can a lot of people
man, what fun you were talking about when a few patterns are so damn hard to read? and «i can't read it» argument is invalid as fuck because it's not about what you can read or not read, it's about what other players can read. btw there is no fun when there are some clearly unreadable moments in the map.

and sorry for a few «strong» words, just couldn't find the other proper and emotional words
- Milhofo -
Only a really small portion of the community can actually pass this, I can't really see how some players can enjoy these types of maps without even beeing able to play them properly, but that's not my main focus.

Putting no fail on and playing this just feels sloppy and most patterns / sliders feel off in terms of flow, I don't care if it's intended or not, I can't understand why someone would do a bad job on purpose?! Sorry to say it but estellia's joke remap felt a lot better to play simply because patterns made sense and it flowed a lot better, plus the normal sliders. I'm not saying this for the star difficulty of the map, I gave value to maps like Apparition and Time Freeze because they have perfectly sensical patterns, even though I can't pass them either, but this doesn't feel the same.

I love some of your maps Monstrata, and I rated some of them a 10 like Akaito and Hikouki Gumo or the EOS remix but based on my opinion I'd rate this map a clear 1 just like I did with the Delta triangles map, because they feel like a joke and nothing else. Just my 2 cents.
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