- unused image file "konachan.com - 181663 cola_(gotouryouta) original robot ruins scenic stars.jpg"

Zerss wrote:

The preview point doesn't seems to be snapped

rip

edit: sorry

Preview point and green lines being unsnapped isn't an unrankable issue (in fact a lot of times it's better if the preview point is unsnapped because of song select's fade-in)

Thanks for actually trying to be helpful, though!

Zerss wrote:

The preview point doesn't seems to be snapped

rip

edit: sorry

Doesn't need to be snapped.

isopaharuntikka wrote:

- unused image file "konachan.com - 181663 cola_(gotouryouta) original robot ruins scenic stars.jpg"

You gotta delete and redl.

UndeadCapulet wrote:

Zerss wrote:

The preview point doesn't seems to be snapped

rip

edit: sorry

Preview point and green lines being unsnapped isn't an unrankable issue (in fact a lot of times it's better if the preview point is unsnapped because of song select's fade-in)

Thanks for actually trying to be helpful, though!

Well, I already got warning from BNs about my preview points being unsnapped. I guess it's just because I'm not famous.

it's only a 2ms preview unsnap, pls

Zerss wrote:

UndeadCapulet wrote:

Preview point and green lines being unsnapped isn't an unrankable issue (in fact a lot of times it's better if the preview point is unsnapped because of song select's fade-in)

Thanks for actually trying to be helpful, though!

Well, I already got warning from BNs about my preview points being unsnapped. I guess it's just because I'm not famous.

Maybe it's bc not every BN is 100% knownledgable about everything all the time, and a lot of stuff is not clearly stated anywhere - BNs tend to contradict each other a lot, because they often think that certain stuff is a rule / disallowed / whatever when they are actually just imagining it, a good example would probably be the general belief that Easy-diffs absolutely must have constant spacing which is completely untrue ^^

GL on rank

monstrata wrote:

Play Time: 05:00

thats some length right there

okay that's enough for now.

Edit: Okay, discuss the map here, please. Keep your opinion about other stuff such as the mapper as well as memes out of here.
Also I should have said that it's not gonna be locked for long, that would be pointless for discussing the map.

hi, i guess this map can be improved a tad more before pushing it further

00:21:847 (4,6) - these arent stacked properly

00:34:933 (1) - what does this slider follow? i cant really hear anythin

00:47:449 (3,1) - im pretty sure the slider blocking the reverse so shortly after is unpleasant to play and can lead to confusion (wasnt it unrankable? im not sure about this one)

00:48:192 (3) - why are there so many unnecessary sliderpoints in this? it looks like you literally just spun around your cursor and randomly clicked
01:00:937 (2) - ^

01:23:058 (3,2) - why are only these two sliders reversed? there isn't anything distinguishable in the song for this, to make it play better either have them all turn the same way or make a pattern just like you did here 01:25:648 (1,2,3) - : http://voli.s-ul.eu/dp9pC8eX

01:24:791 (3,4) - why sudden spacing change? reverse 4 and 5 please, there is nothing to be emphasized here, same goes for similar patterns after this one

01:31:862 (3,4) - and here the spacing doesnt change like that consistency pls

01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - i cant grasp what this is following at all

01:39:772 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - here too, why the sudden 1/4 slider spam..?

01:46:275 (1) - slider end sounds mistimed, at least silence it or something

01:53:257 (1,2) - if this is trying to be a blanket then blanket it :p or move it a bit away

01:56:760 (1,5) - ^

01:58:499 (1,2) - ^

02:13:776 (1,2,3) - this pattern plays very uncanny because of the sudden timing change, i'd suggest to make it a reverse

02:17:561 (3,4) - drum finishes instead of claps? sounds more fitting

02:36:632 - slider end sound volume on nothing just doesnt sound right

02:40:340 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - why aren't the claps hitsounded at ALL here? there are almost no hitsounds on all of this for no reason, put claps here: 02:40:340 (1) - 02:40:674 (4) - 02:40:786 (5) - 02:41:120 (8) - etc. i just noticed this goes on for a way longer time, why don't you hitsound the obvious claps in the music?

03:03:064 (2) - since you're not following the vocals remove this and make this 03:02:810 (1) - extended slider, if you choose not to, remove 03:01:292 (1) - because the slider end ends on a high pitch and make it 2 notes instead

04:45:311 (1) - very disrupting slider end sound (theres nothing in the music) silence this please

03:16:894 (5,1) - very off blanket, either move somewhere else or blanket it properly

04:49:426 (1) - maybe silence spinner end more

Zerss wrote:

Well, I already got warning from BNs about my preview points being unsnapped. I guess it's just because I'm not famous.

You being famous or not is completely irrelevant, they must've just warned you to let you know, just in case you wanted it snapped.

It is common practice to unsnap preview points, as Charles said:

Charles445 wrote:

Preview time is unsnapped, but it doesn't have to be snapped.
In fact, it is often better to move the preview point BEFORE the desired beat.
That way, the preview sound file starts on quietness.
Have you ever wondered why some previews POP painfully? Yeah. They started on the beat.

Just a little clarification on the matter: if we see other stupid comments not meant to improve the mapset we will also give silences, so be warned.
Stop the idiocy already.

Congrats! Fun map.

Spaghetti wrote:

they must've just warned you to let you know, just in case you wanted it snapped.

Erm... actually the preview point was snapped, on 1/8.
anyways, I stop here since it's useless to change the preview point and i'm ok with it

MrSergio wrote:

Just a little clarification on the matter: if we see other stupid comments not meant to improve the mapset we will also give silences, so be warned.
Stop the idiocy already.

Monstrata has already declined every single person's attempt to make the map "better" because it "goes against his vision"


It's like if Routing was made by someone who hated the community.


That said, the retarded jumpstream is gone and that nerfed the SR by 0.19, so small victories i guess.

This is a really nice map! Congratulations Monstrata!

I would post a mod, but I don't have much to contribute with. Map is great, congratulations on qualify!

Red timing sections are inconsistent with the downbeat at:

03:32:506 (3) - (Downbeat here from red tick)

03:40:078 (3) - (Downbeat is here? Why?, would be consistent to be put at 03:40:582 (5) imo)

Before this map gets too much attention into the minutiae, a certain level of effort and quality should be provided by Monstrata which at a glance in the editor isn't there.

Every slider is randomly made, even for sounds that are identical for an entire phrase and result in weird looking flow between sliders. Particularly bad in the 1/4 spam section 02:26:362 (1) - , the map would look a ton better if the sliders were just randomly drawn but thoughtfully made.

The section at 02:26:362 (1) - with all the 1/4 slider spam. There's not an ounce of 1/4 in the rhythm, this is at detriment to the map, since it should be 1/2, yet there is nothing on the 1/4 ticks. Though they're sliders, the sliderend should still be treated as part of the object, it's just the weaker partner of the head and tail. Rhythm choice here could be vastly improved. (The vocals aren't 1/4)

The hitsounding seems to use kick samples in random places on red ticks where there isn't any kicks to be emphasised, could you explain why you're doing that?

Onto other stuff.

00:39:852 (6) - I don't see any reason for a repeat slider here. This is the weakest object in the whole rhythm and it is just odd.
00:40:172 (1) - This is the wrong hitsound on here, you've used a kick, but there should be some sort of clap, or something very weak. You've placed a kick and made a false rhythm, the worst kind of hitsounding. Hitsounding should be used to accent the rhythms of a song and give good player feedback.

00:43:047 (4,5) - Wouldn't you say this is the best opportunity for 1/2 spam with this rhythm? The choice in these are kind of underwhelming.
00:44:770 (5,6) - ^ etc. you know which ones i mean

00:48:737 (2) - Why is this a slider here? Slider should go here 00:48:623 (1) - this then matches the vocals.
00:49:515 (1) - ^
00:50:384 (1) - ^ and so on.


Sorry, I cannot mod anymore, the song grinds my gears, other people are modding, and I really don't feel like you're taking this map seriously with how it's mapped, so I can't justify spending more time, sorry and good luck.

Part 2

So yeah. Im sooooooo pissed off that I cant hangle my mizery to the abyss. Its gotta be a dude post but please take it to me very seriously. Ive made this post when it got bubbled so check it out.

The first thing I want to say its this map. Okay, the song is very sick, but these fucking notes are godly awful. Not THE WORST but still. Its just a slider spam that it requires a hugs randon shot.

Second, Monstrata. Ok yes I critizied him because im mad at him but im not talking about this man. Im talking about what hes actually doing, and you guys right about his plan, everything should be ranked. Heres the problem. The problem is the quality of your maps. Just triangles and hexagon jumps. Sure he made other cool maps but that because but it was the good quality. Here its 0 quality over there. Wheres the quality?? WHERE???

Third, beatmap criteria. Lets be honest. This criteria is seriously controlling the quality of your maps and thats an important Part of all. Sure were seen Apparition by Mazzerin but he knows what hes actually doing because he understands the quality. Yes yes this map is preety decent, but it worked. Here, like I said, 0 quality. Not even Cookiezi might play it because of your creation with no quality whats so ever.

And last, fun. Preety much every map should be player with fun. The beginner mapper will be some problems 100%. I had these feeling when I mapped my first map by Noizy Freaks. Its so bad that I deleted but during of my traning helped me make quality maps, hitsounding, storyboarding etc. He has this skill but he forgot the quality of this map.

Well... That was short but really fair. I hope you will understand your problem of what youre exacly doing and im so sorry of that previous post. Forgive me, please

Voli wrote:

hi, i guess this map can be improved a tad more before pushing it further

00:21:847 (4,6) - these arent stacked properly Its an annoying glitch in editor with stacks. I fixed it right before Pereira flamed lol.
00:34:933 (1) - what does this slider follow? i cant really hear anythin The buzz. more detailed reply on p/5282568
00:47:449 (3,1) - im pretty sure the slider blocking the reverse so shortly after is unpleasant to play and can lead to confusion (wasnt it unrankable? im not sure about this one) Uhh... no... the reverse is before the slider... so the slider goes under the repeat ...
00:48:192 (3) - why are there so many unnecessary sliderpoints in this? it looks like you literally just spun around your cursor and randomly clicked That's kinda the idea about this whole first half of the map xP...
01:00:937 (2) - ^
01:23:058 (3,2) - why are only these two sliders reversed? there isn't anything distinguishable in the song for this, to make it play better either have them all turn the same way or make a pattern just like you did here 01:25:648 (1,2,3) - : http://voli.s-ul.eu/dp9pC8eX It's just there for some chaos. It's very easy to read, and its done to create some variation in an otherwise very lame placement.
01:24:791 (3,4) - why sudden spacing change? reverse 4 and 5 please, there is nothing to be emphasized here, same goes for similar patterns after this one
01:31:862 (3,4) - and here the spacing doesnt change like that consistency pls This is just symmetriy. The jump is very small, it's not big enough to create emphasis imo so i did it for better pattern transition and design.
01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - i cant grasp what this is following at all Hmm... Maybe listen again?
01:39:772 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - here too, why the sudden 1/4 slider spam..? Uh...
01:46:275 (1) - slider end sounds mistimed, at least silence it or something Uh no... This is fine, I don't know what you're hearing because th is is consistent with a lot of other sliders in this pattern, unless you have a problem with all of them xD.
01:53:257 (1,2) - if this is trying to be a blanket then blanket it :p or move it a bit away It's not trying to be a blanket.
01:56:760 (1,5) - ^
01:58:499 (1,2) - ^
02:13:776 (1,2,3) - this pattern plays very uncanny because of the sudden timing change, i'd suggest to make it a reverse NC is good enough to make players more aware of the approach circle due to a lack of follow point.
02:17:561 (3,4) - drum finishes instead of claps? sounds more fitting Claps are more fitting imo, and more consistent with how i've been hitsounding
02:36:632 - slider end sound volume on nothing just doesnt sound right The vocal doesnt cut off immediately though. It lingers. Also, the speed of the slider kinda makes the slider-end have a sort of "impact" feel.
02:40:340 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - why aren't the claps hitsounded at ALL here? there are almost no hitsounds on all of this for no reason, put claps here: 02:40:340 (1) - 02:40:674 (4) - 02:40:786 (5) - 02:41:120 (8) - etc. i just noticed this goes on for a way longer time, why don't you hitsound the obvious claps in the music? Half of the notes you want me to put claps on already have claps? Also my hitsound rhythm here is just different from what you might be used to, but its still effective in giving rhythm.
03:03:064 (2) - since you're not following the vocals remove this and make this 03:02:810 (1) - extended slider, if you choose not to, remove 03:01:292 (1) - because the slider end ends on a high pitch and make it 2 notes instead No, I want this to be clickable.
04:45:311 (1) - very disrupting slider end sound (theres nothing in the music) silence this please I do this mainly because spinner starts don't actually get any hitsound, but i want the player to essentially have a htisound for when they click on the spinner to begin it. Hope that kinda explains it better.
03:16:894 (5,1) - very off blanket, either move somewhere else or blanket it properly
04:49:426 (1) - maybe silence spinner end more Not necessary...

I think you're missing the central theme of this map, but hopefully I explained the reasonable points as best I could. I'm kinda looking forward to moddingv2 so I don't have to keep copy/pasting replies from previous mods here xD.

Thanks for looking.

love the second part of the map. Maybe a larger spred on the streams at 03:38:822 - and 03:38:822 - .... just think it would add to a equalization of difficulty level and make that part of the map not 100%'able by everyone playing it .-. GREAT MAP KEEP IT UP!

-Space- wrote:

Red timing sections are inconsistent with the downbeat at:

03:32:506 (3) - (Downbeat here from red tick)

03:40:078 (3) - (Downbeat is here? Why?, would be consistent to be put at 03:40:582 (5) imo)

They all reset appropriately at the next possible downbeat, but good observation. I will check if I missed any because yea that can be bad.

dat user rating

well, gratz

Hula wrote:

Before this map gets too much attention into the minutiae, a certain level of effort and quality should be provided by Monstrata which at a glance in the editor isn't there.

Every slider is randomly made, even for sounds that are identical for an entire phrase and result in weird looking flow between sliders. Particularly bad in the 1/4 spam section 02:26:362 (1) - , the map would look a ton better if the sliders were just randomly drawn but thoughtfully made. https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5275233

The section at 02:26:362 (1) - with all the 1/4 slider spam. There's not an ounce of 1/4 in the rhythm, this is at detriment to the map, since it should be 1/2, yet there is nothing on the 1/4 ticks. Though they're sliders, the sliderend should still be treated as part of the object, it's just the weaker partner of the head and tail. Rhythm choice here could be vastly improved. (The vocals aren't 1/4) They are there for design, with a very simple rhythm. They absolutely fit and are one of the highlights of the map. I'm sad you don't like them .

The hitsounding seems to use kick samples in random places on red ticks where there isn't any kicks to be emphasised, could you explain why you're doing that? I'm not following the song entirely because what's the point of hitsounding if all you do is follow exactly what the song has? Hitsounding is about creating a new rhythm for players that tastefully uses what rhythms the song has to offer, and giving a unique spin to it to fit the rhythm you've picked.

Onto other stuff.

00:39:852 (6) - I don't see any reason for a repeat slider here. This is the weakest object in the whole rhythm and it is just odd. This is there to give a 1/1 pause basically, since the vocal begins on a red tick instead of the downbeat.
00:40:172 (1) - This is the wrong hitsound on here, you've used a kick, but there should be some sort of clap, or something very weak. You've placed a kick and made a false rhythm, the worst kind of hitsounding. Hitsounding should be used to accent the rhythms of a song and give good player feedback. I want to emphasize the vocals too.

00:43:047 (4,5) - Wouldn't you say this is the best opportunity for 1/2 spam with this rhythm? The choice in these are kind of underwhelming. No, i don't think 1/2 spam fits this rhythm, and I consider myself a connoseur of 1/2 spam.
00:44:770 (5,6) - ^ etc. you know which ones i mean

00:48:737 (2) - Why is this a slider here? Slider should go here 00:48:623 (1) - this then matches the vocals. This matches the vocals too... there are two syllables being sung. I'm just making both syllables clickable instead of putting a slider-end on the second syllable. Applies to below.
00:49:515 (1) - ^
00:50:384 (1) - ^ and so on.


Sorry, I cannot mod anymore, the song grinds my gears, other people are modding, and I really don't feel like you're taking this map seriously with how it's mapped, so I can't justify spending more time, sorry and good luck.

Thanks for your concerns!

00:28:922 (1,2,3,4,5) - Why is the spacing different from the (1,2,3) at 00:28:071 I feel it just generates an awkward slow down because the momentum from the spacing+slider (jump)speed before is way quicker. Next to that, squares at 282 bpm play like shit.

00:34:933 (1,2,3) - Why is the spacing between slider end (1) and (2) smaller than the spacing between (2) and (3)? It looks really bad.

00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - At (5) the music build up happens, yet the jumps only start on (6). Why?

00:43:690 (2,3,4) - Spacing too short again. It feels cramped yet I don't get a cramped feeling at this music at all. It doesn't make any sense to slow it down here.

00:48:192 (3) - Why is this 1/4 kickslider? Everything before hand was 1/2 x 2 sliders.

01:24:363 (1) - Why is this a 1/2 slider? All the previous patterns have only the vocals on 1/2, the rest 1/3. (See 00:21:206 (1) - for example.)

01:36:505 (2) - The vocals are 1/3 here. Mapping this on a blue tick to somehow follow a bit of vocals is already pretty silly as it stands, but it's also completely wrong in this occasion.

01:41:058 (1,2) - Why 1/4 and not a long 1/1 like in the three patterns before that? Or at least double 1/2 to emphasize on the bass.

02:02:564 (2,3,4,5) - Please no squares.

02:09:830 (2,3,4,5) - Plays better if the movement was back&forth.

02:15:605 (3,4,1) - Why is the spacing here so drastically shorter than 02:14:679 (3,4,1) -

02:21:427 (4,5) - You should keep the short spacing pattern for the vocals only.

02:39:240 (6,7,8,9,10) - Come on, you're not even trying to make it look decent, let alone follow the same spacing.

03:16:390 (3,4,5,6) - (3,4) has the higher pitch, so there should be the increased spacing. Instead on a break in vocals we get a jump. Why?

I'm stopping here. This map is cool for your friends to play, to show them what crazy things you can accomplish in your editor. This map is like the most played map on Super Mario Maker. Adding in all the crazy elements and people will enjoy it for what it is, a gimmick. But gimmicks should not be ranked. Ranked maps need to have quality control to it, to ensure that stuff like this does not get through. But it did. I truthfully cannot understand how anybody could deem this worthy of ranking in its current state. Keep gimmick maps out of ranked.

AustinsGuitar wrote:

love the second part of the map. Maybe a larger spred on the streams at 03:38:822 - and 03:38:822 - .... just think it would add to a equalization of difficulty level and make that part of the map not 100%'able by everyone playing it .-. GREAT MAP KEEP IT UP!

Hmm. I do want to make this section really easy though xD. To draw more on the contrast, but you raise a good point.

hello no bully pls

a lot of people have probably pointed these out already but here's a list anyway

00:23:986 (5) - i think ctrl+g fits the vocal better (or make it curve like the other crude sliders) since he's yelling harder and stuff
00:25:697 (5) - same

00:27:409 (1) - this slider extends 1/2 after his voice fades away, might want to change that unless you want to keep it longer

00:28:709 (4,1) - this transition feels a bit rough but it might just be me

00:29:560 - same sound as in 00:29:347 (5) - , maybe seperate to two repeats?
00:31:262 - ^
00:34:689 - ^
00:48:403 - ^ might be different here

00:32:117 (4) - try ctrl+g?
00:33:617 (3) - ^
00:55:793 (2) - ^ dunno don't like this one lol

00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - cool

00:39:852 (6) - this feels a bit like a ghost note as the slider before follows the vocal (don't feel like the pattern is that improvable though)

00:41:771 (1,2,3,4) - this looks surprisingly fine

00:49:081 - 00:55:579 - this section _could_ be toned down with sliders but if you want to keep it as something that builds up to the escalating jumps to come it's fine

01:02:466 - 01:20:292 - these sliders seem quite slow compared to the sliders in the fast part. however, you probably just meant it as a [something i can't explain] part

01:35:915 (4,5) - it's hard to get a perfect pattern for this

01:38:915 (1,2,3,4,5) - shouldn't these be disengaged from the pattern before as they follow different style of vocals

01:39:772 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - wa daa daa daa (shouldn't these be 1/3?)

02:02:564 (2,3,4,5) - this is more of a drum roll than just the same sound being played 4 times (not like it really matters if you change this or not lo)

02:26:362 - 02:33:170 - oh my

02:51:908 (1,1) - hr players will love these (if anyone ever bothers to play this with hr)

02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - [RUDE AWAKENING]

good luck monstrata

GladiOol wrote:

00:28:922 (1,2,3,4,5) - Why is the spacing different from the (1,2,3) at 00:28:071 I feel it just generates an awkward slow down because the momentum from the spacing+slider (jump)speed before is way quicker. Next to that, squares at 282 bpm play like shit. The angle is different, and this is a lot more single-tap. This is the beginning of the 280 bpm single tap so I do want to give the players at least a few seconds to adjust into the playstyle, hence why the first pattern you mentioned is also very similar to an alternator-style pattern.

00:34:933 (1,2,3) - Why is the spacing between slider end (1) and (2) smaller than the spacing between (2) and (3)? It looks really bad.

00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - At (5) the music build up happens, yet the jumps only start on (6). Why? To show the spacing is slowly spirally out into chaos. I don't want it to be an instant change, I want it to feel more gradual.

00:43:690 (2,3,4) - Spacing too short again. It feels cramped yet I don't get a cramped feeling at this music at all. It doesn't make any sense to slow it down here. This feels fine to me...

00:48:192 (3) - Why is this 1/4 kickslider? Everything before hand was 1/2 x 2 sliders. it's a rhythm variation which still respects clicking rhythm. It's very straightforward i hope.

01:24:363 (1) - Why is this a 1/2 slider? All the previous patterns have only the vocals on 1/2, the rest 1/3. (See 00:21:206 (1) - for example.) Rhythm variance. I think it works fine here. Having 4 and then 5 kickslider sets is weird imo... so i did 4, 4, and started earlier than vocals.

01:36:505 (2) - The vocals are 1/3 here. Mapping this on a blue tick to somehow follow a bit of vocals is already pretty silly as it stands, but it's also completely wrong in this occasion. No, its 1/4

01:41:058 (1,2) - Why 1/4 and not a long 1/1 like in the three patterns before that? Or at least double 1/2 to emphasize on the bass. This is the same clicking rhythm and works better imo.

02:02:564 (2,3,4,5) - Please no squares. Please

02:09:830 (2,3,4,5) - Plays better if the movement was back&forth. I want the linear snap. Arphi's mod reply for more indepth reasoning.

02:15:605 (3,4,1) - Why is the spacing here so drastically shorter than 02:14:679 (3,4,1) - It's about relative emphasis. Relative to the pattern 3>4>1 is correctly emphasized.

02:21:427 (4,5) - You should keep the short spacing pattern for the vocals only. Nah, I want it to be for all 1/2's here because it creates this feeling for the player where they think hey can alternate here, and then have their hopes dashed when the last object is a jump.

02:39:240 (6,7,8,9,10) - Come on, you're not even trying to make it look decent, let alone follow the same spacing. Yea, thats kinda the point xD.

03:16:390 (3,4,5,6) - (3,4) has the higher pitch, so there should be the increased spacing. Instead on a break in vocals we get a jump. Why? Cuz the jump emphasizes the higher pitch.

I'm stopping here. This map is cool for your friends to play, to show them what crazy things you can accomplish in your editor. This map is like the most played map on Super Mario Maker. Adding in all the crazy elements and people will enjoy it for what it is, a gimmick. But gimmicks should not be ranked. Ranked maps need to have quality control to it, to ensure that stuff like this does not get through. But it did. I truthfully cannot understand how anybody could deem this worthy of ranking in its current state. Keep gimmick maps out of ranked.

Thanks for your concerns!!

Doesn't the user rating tell you something about this map?

Because it seems pretty obvious to me and a large amount of the community that this map should NOT, under any circumstances, be ranked.

First of all, the map is VERY disliked. This is probably due to the actual quality of the beatmap where I've to agree with Nelly:

Nelly wrote:

The first thing I want to say its this map. Okay, the song is very sick,but these fucking notes are godly awful. Not THE WORST but still. Its just a slider spam that it requires a hugs randon shot.

And last, fun. Pretty much every map should be player with fun. /.../ but he forgot the quality of this map.

That the quality of the map in this case is non-existant.

Secondly, this map just seems, a spam of wierd sliders, TAG-4 Jumps, etc.

I love the song, and I would love for the map to go somewhere but like it is right now? No way. I think it's awful in its current state and the fact that it even got qualified makes me feel that BN:s are not taking it seriously at all.

Also, if you don't believe me and want some more "insight" from the community, go ahead and read the Reddit thread of this map, because right now it feels like Mr. Monstrata isn't listening to what the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY thinks of the map, but instead just says thinks like:

Monstrata wrote:

I think you're missing the central theme of this map, but hopefully I explained (MY PERSONAL) reasonable points as best I could. I'm kinda looking forward to moddingv2 so I don't have to keep copy/pasting replies /.../

Anyhow, that's my opinions and some of the communities. And here is the link to the reddit thread.

[General]

1. All clear.

[Stop! Stop Winny Upload!!]

1. 00:19:271 (4,1) - I feel since you have a jump at 00:18:411 (4,1) it would be fitting to have one here as well, especially due to the fact that it would help emphasize the first kick.
2. 00:21:206 - This whole section is just really boring. There's so much you can do to emphasize the start of certain vocals like at 00:21:419 but it's just the same spacing as everything else. Now, don't get me wrong; I do recognize you are mapping to the guitar here. However, you can do that while also representing the vocals with differing spacing concurrently. The vocals are loud (I mean come on, they are yelling basically) and deserve some form of representation, and I feel it would be best represented via spacing. This applies for the next ~30 seconds.
3. 00:22:489 (1,2,3) - This plays very awkwardly. In 00:24:200 (1,2,3) and 00:25:911 (1,2,3) you have tame flow with even spacing, whereas in this pattern, the flow is very choppy and abstract, and the spacing is seemlingly random.
4. 00:32:546 (2,3) - Spacing here can be increased for emphasis on the guitar-sounding thing like you did at 00:30:943 (4,5) and 00:29:241 (4,5) very well.
5. 00:40:172 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - Ok, so to begin, I recognize you are mapping to the vocals here, and I agree with that decision. However, in the song, the singer is gaining momentum for the upcoming section which is very intense, and I feel this can be represented with the jumps with slowly increasing spacing, or even just 00:40:918 (1,2,3,4,5) having a definitively larger spacing compared to 00:40:172 (1,2,3,4,5,6) . It feels weird to just have massive jumps off the bat in a measure that is supposed to gain momentum for the upcoming craziness.
6. 00:41:771 - Alright, so in this upcoming section, I like to look at it in 4 parts, each part representing 2 measures each. While there's a few spacing inconsistencies, one I would like to point out is how 00:43:260 (5,1) has a significantly lower spacing than 00:44:984 (6,1) and 00:46:699 (4,1) which I understand because the break in flow is extremely sharp, but the spacing still feels low compared to the other similar sections, and it can be increased to emphasize the downbeat better. Additionally, 00:48:192 (3) is a repeat slider whereas 00:46:484 and the rest of the similar sections in the 4 parts consist of two 1/2 sliders, and it doesn't make sense in my eyes.
7. 00:49:407 (4,1) - The spacing between these two notes should be increased because there is a powerful vocal syllable on the downbeat, which you represented at 00:50:384 and 00:52:986 but not here.
8. 00:55:579 - I like to look at the next 8 measures as the first 4 measures repeated once. Therefor, they should have somewhat similar spacing. However, from 00:59:022 and onwards, your spacing drastically increases which doesn't make sense considering the song hasn't gotten any more intense than the last 4 measures.
9. 01:22:624 - The suggestions from 00:21:206 apply here as well.
10. 01:41:058 (1,2,1) - The spacing in this pattern doesn't make sense. If anything, it should either be equidistant or have 01:41:058 (1,2) closer together than 01:41:272 (2,1) to emphasize the downbeat and to emphasize a changing of energy in the song.
11. 01:41:487 - In this section, I recognize that you mapped the bass/guitar/percussion with sliders. Similar to the previously mentioned sections, the spacing here is really boring, and could be spiced up with increased spacing on percussion hits to emphasize them. You have it in some percussion hits but not all or even most.
12. 02:13:776 (1,2,3,1) - The spacing in this pattern should be lower due to the fact that the timing change make it really difficult to hit to begin with, and the fact that the spacing increases while everything except the percussion going silent doesn't fit the song too well. I get that you need to emphasize the percussion, but currently I find it to be too extreme when coupled with the shift in timing.
13. 02:43:239 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - You had a build-up in spacing at 02:39:686 (1,2,1,2,1,2) which plays lovely because the momentum in the vocals increases over this time period, but you didn't do it here when it's essentially the same thing.
14. 03:31:498 (1) - Spacing can be increased to emphasize the crash better.
15. 04:01:581 (1) - Spacing can be increased to emphasize the introduction of the guitar.

I love the concept, but I feel this needs a fair bit of spacing polishing.

QTS wrote:

Doesn't the user rating tell you something about this map?

Because it seems pretty obvious to me and a large amount of the community that this map should NOT, under any circumstances, be ranked.

First of all, the map is VERY disliked. This is probably due to the actual quality of the beatmap where I've to agree with Nelly:

Nelly wrote:

The first thing I want to say its this map. Okay, the song is very sick,but these fucking notes are godly awful. Not THE WORST but still. Its just a slider spam that it requires a hugs randon shot.

And last, fun. Pretty much every map should be player with fun. /.../ but he forgot the quality of this map.

That the quality of the map in this case is non-existant.

Secondly, this map just seems, a spam of wierd sliders, TAG-4 Jumps, etc.

I love the song, and I would love for the map to go somewhere but like it is right now? No way. I think it's awful in its current state and the fact that it even got qualified makes me feel that BN:s are not taking it seriously at all.

Also, if you don't believe me and want some more "insight" from the community, go ahead and read the Reddit thread of this map, because right now it feels like Mr. Monstrata isn't listening to what the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY thinks of the map, but instead just says thinks like:

Monstrata wrote:

I think you're missing the central theme of this map, but hopefully I explained (MY PERSONAL) reasonable points as best I could. I'm kinda looking forward to moddingv2 so I don't have to keep copy/pasting replies /.../

Anyhow, that's my opinions and some of the communities. And here is the link to the reddit thread.

You're listening to a VOCAL minority, not an OVERWHELMING majority. Reddit is not an OVERWHELMING portion of the community. Also, I understand that a player of any rank can point out technical and aesthetic flaws in a map of any difficulty. There are a ton of really helpful members of the community that have contributed a massive amount to maps that they can't pass. However, when it comes to judging a map's "fun" amount, how can Nelly tell if it's a fun map when he can't even pass it? And where are the facts? You can't just blindly say a map isn't fun and then not contribute anything...

You're listening to a VOCAL minority, not an OVERWHELMING majority. Reddit is not an OVERWHELMING portion of the community. Also, I understand that a player of any rank can point out technical and aesthetic flaws in a map of any difficulty. There are a ton of really helpful members of the community that have contributed a massive amount to maps that they can't pass. However, when it comes to judging a map's "fun" amount, how can Nelly tell if it's a fun map when he can't even pass it? And where are the facts? You can't just blindly say a map isn't fun and then not contribute anything...

I'd say the user rating pretty much shows an overwhelming majority, being the lowest rated map ever made by a mile and all.

QTS wrote:

Doesn't the user rating tell you something about this map?

Because it seems pretty obvious to me and a large amount of the community that this map should NOT, under any circumstances, be ranked.

First of all, the map is VERY disliked. This is probably due to the actual quality of the beatmap where I've to agree with Nelly:

If it was a good idea to rank maps based on what the community thinks, we wouldn't have a quality assurance system in the first place.

Rapthorn wrote:

You're listening to a VOCAL minority, not an OVERWHELMING majority. Reddit is not an OVERWHELMING portion of the community. Also, I understand that a player of any rank can point out technical and aesthetic flaws in a map of any difficulty. There are a ton of really helpful members of the community that have contributed a massive amount to maps that they can't pass. However, when it comes to judging a map's "fun" amount, how can Nelly tell if it's a fun map when he can't even pass it? And where are the facts? You can't just blindly say a map isn't fun and then not contribute anything...

I'd say the user rating pretty much shows an overwhelming majority, being the lowest rated map ever made by a mile and all.

Again, it's a vocal minority. There are plenty of people who support the map who didn't rate it and who aren't being vocal because they are fine with the map.

Maybe people downvoted cuz they didn't like me? or that they thought the song was too hard? You can't determine the intention for someone's 1 vote xD. Loctav currently has the most downvoted map on osu. Does that make him or the map bad? No. Some taiko BN's tell me t's actually good... but you can clearly see people DTNF'ing it with like 50 points just to downvote to spite him.

I'll just restate again, I don't mind the map itself but not having AR 10 or OD 10 is really questionable considering the BPM and chance to notelock.

QTS wrote:

Doesn't the user rating tell you something about this map?

Because it seems pretty obvious to me and a large amount of the community that this map should NOT, under any circumstances, be ranked.

First of all, the map is VERY disliked. This is probably due to the actual quality of the beatmap where I've to agree with Nelly:

Nelly wrote:

The first thing I want to say its this map. Okay, the song is very sick,but these fucking notes are godly awful. Not THE WORST but still. Its just a slider spam that it requires a hugs randon shot.

And last, fun. Pretty much every map should be player with fun. /.../ but he forgot the quality of this map.

That the quality of the map in this case is non-existant.

Secondly, this map just seems, a spam of wierd sliders, TAG-4 Jumps, etc.

I love the song, and I would love for the map to go somewhere but like it is right now? No way. I think it's awful in its current state and the fact that it even got qualified makes me feel that BN:s are not taking it seriously at all.

Also, if you don't believe me and want some more "insight" from the community, go ahead and read the Reddit thread of this map, because right now it feels like Mr. Monstrata isn't listening to what the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY thinks of the map, but instead just says thinks like:

Monstrata wrote:

I think you're missing the central theme of this map, but hopefully I explained (MY PERSONAL) reasonable points as best I could. I'm kinda looking forward to moddingv2 so I don't have to keep copy/pasting replies /.../

Anyhow, that's my opinions and some of the communities. And here is the link to the reddit thread.

user rating doesn't mean shit lol

Smoothie World wrote:

However, when it comes to judging a map's "fun" amount, how can Nelly tell if it's a fun map when he can't even pass it?

I cant pass it yeah but I can make a verdict of it of how is it "good or bad?"

Monstrata's not entirely wrong, a lot of 1 votes are used as a "fuck you" button.


But you have to wonder what the players are pressing "fuck you" for. For me, with Final Answer, years ago, it was because I made myself the enemy of the entire chinese community. For Loctav, it was a particular comment he made blah blah. Either case, in both cases, the "fuck you" was done regardless of the map. It was because me and Loctav pissed people off by being dicks.


I'm pretty sure the "fuck you"s for this map aren't entirely because you pissed off people in a separate situation, Monstrata.

Smoothie World wrote:

You're listening to a VOCAL minority, not an OVERWHELMING majority. Reddit is not an OVERWHELMING portion of the community. Also, I understand that a player of any rank can point out technical and aesthetic flaws in a map of any difficulty. There are a ton of really helpful members of the community that have contributed a massive amount to maps that they can't pass. However, when it comes to judging a map's "fun" amount, how can Nelly tell if it's a fun map when he can't even pass it? And where are the facts? You can't just blindly say a map isn't fun and then not contribute anything...

Looking at the map's user rating, the OVERWHELMING majority dislikes the map. I never mentioned reddit as the overwhelming majority but there are comments on there that opinionate the map as a whole, likewise here. As I mentioned, I think that the map consists of low-quality "spam streams" as well as TAG-4 Jumps. Also, half-ish of the map consists of a very slow-phased phase, and now don't get me wrong, I like when mappers use those as "breaks" but for me, I think that close to half of the map being of that charachter, is too much. That being said, I personally find the map of low-quality. I love the song itself and would like for the map to get ranked, although NOT in its current state.

Also, I'm actually interested in your opinion on the map, mind sharing?

Edit: Also, there are LOTS of high players that are saying that this map shouldn't be ranked. Hence Sanze saying "cancer", Astar mentioning the TAG4 jumps and Rafis said on stream that this map should NEVER be ranked.

Monstrata wrote:

Maybe people downvoted cuz they didn't like me? or that they thought the song was too hard? You can't determine the intention for someone's 1 vote xD. Loctav currently has the most downvoted map on osu. Does that make him or the map bad? No. Some taiko BN's tell me t's actually good... but you can clearly see people DTNF'ing it with like 50 points just to downvote to spite him.

If people really disliked you every map of yours would have a terrible rating right? And im pretty sure you know the 1's are not actually because of the star rating or the song for most people this time.

I'll try to help out here

02:50:353 - this red point you should do it 7/4 instead of 4/4 imo
03:11:415 (1) - end this at 03:13:440 - if you're trying to follow vocal
04:42:747 - add 109 BPM redline
04:44:784 - change this to 114 BPM
04:45:311 (1) - you can make this heart slider much better than now

234,109,285311,6,0,B|234:102|203:78|143:78|136:142|109:196|189:209|257:289|257:289|324:209|404:196|377:142|370:78|310:78|277:102|278:116,1,599.999981689454,2|2,0:0|0:2,0:0:0:0:

04:49:426 (1) - at the spinner end you can put a whistle here

even if it's too harder it's a great map, don't let the user rating let winny upload continue his road
if I didn't helped, don't gimme kudosu

Do people genuinely think that 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) this is a rankable pattern? Random cross screen square jumps? I swear I've seen this before... Oh yeah! In a fucking tag 4 map.
Whoever decided that this is good enough quality to be added to the osu! map pool needs to be permanently removed from their position; they have no clue what they are talking about.

Smoothie World wrote:

However, when it comes to judging a map's "fun" amount, how can Nelly tell if it's a fun map when he can't even pass it? And where are the facts? You can't just blindly say a map isn't fun and then not contribute anything...

There have been multiple people from the top 50 state negative feelings about the map. Can they have an opinion on it, or can you find some other excuse?

Smoothie World wrote:

However, when it comes to judging a map's "fun" amount, how can Nelly tell if it's a fun map when he can't even pass it? And where are the facts? You can't just blindly say a map isn't fun and then not contribute anything...

What facts do you want? Would it help if I measured the amount of pixels between each jump, and labeled it "too fucking many"?

Regardless, fun isn't a factor on how maps are ranked and shouldn't ever be; it's subjective. Graces of Heaven is pretty fun for those who can play it I expect, but it should never by any means be ranked. Maps should be based on ranking conventions, many of which this map shoves the middle finger to but gets through anyway.

Shiirn wrote:

Monstrata's not entirely wrong, a lot of 1 votes are used as a "fuck you" button.


But you have to wonder what the players are pressing "fuck you" for. For me, with Final Answer, years ago, it was because I made myself the enemy of the entire chinese community. For Loctav, it was a particular comment he made blah blah. Either case, in both cases, the "fuck you" was done regardless of the map. It was because me and Loctav pissed people off by being dicks.


I'm pretty sure the "fuck you"s for this map aren't entirely because you pissed off people in a separate situation, Monstrata.

Totally agree with this, I should have mentioned it as well, but I guess there's no need for me to do it anymore since you did it yourself

QTS wrote:

Looking at the map's user rating, the OVERWHELMING majority dislikes the map.

The majority of the players who use the rating system have given it a low rating. The majority of active players do not even use this system (though I could be wrong here, to be fair).

QTS wrote:

Also, half-ish of the map consists of a very slow-phased phase, and now don't get me wrong, I like when mappers use those as "breaks" but for me, I think that close to half of the map being of that charachter, is too much.

The song itself consists of a very slow part after the ridiculously fast part. Can't map it to be ridiculously fast like the rest of the song if it's slow.

Enkidu wrote:

QTS wrote:

Looking at the map's user rating, the OVERWHELMING majority dislikes the map.

The majority of the players who use the rating system have given it a low rating. The majority of active players do not even use this system (though I could be wrong here, to be fair).

QTS wrote:

Also, half-ish of the map consists of a very slow-phased phase, and now don't get me wrong, I like when mappers use those as "breaks" but for me, I think that close to half of the map being of that charachter, is too much.

The song itself consists of a very slow part after the ridiculously fast part. Can't map it to be ridiculously fast like the rest of the song if it's slow.

Then maybe the song isn't supposed to be a 8*+ song in the first place, although this is only my personal opinion.

User ratings are just the same as making a review to the game by yourself but instead its a map. The user should feel a comfortable notes and patterns not this miss kick

I don't understand why people have an issue with the 2 last minutes of the map being slow, honestly. It had to be made to fit the song, and having a long slow part towards the end is not unheard of before this.

Cosmic cortex has 3 minutes of extremely boring mapping before the map even starts but i didnt see nearly as much shit then.

Looking at the map's user rating, the OVERWHELMING majority dislikes the map. I never mentioned reddit as the overwhelming majority but there are comments on there that opinionate the map as a whole, likewise here.

Look at Shiirn's most recent post. Not gonna explain this one again. He explains it well.

As I mentioned, I think that the map consists of low-quality "spam streams" as well as TAG-4 Jumps.

There's not a single stream over 5 notes. Stop pulling false facts out of your ass. Also, what do you even consider "TAG-4 Jumps?" I'm going to assume you mean cross-screen jumps, which there are a couple, but they match the music and aren't consistent throughout the map. They are only when the song calls for them.

Also, half-ish of the map consists of a very slow-phased phase, and now don't get me wrong, I like when mappers use those as "breaks" but for me, I think that close to half of the map being of that charachter, is too much.

Ok, let's just call up the artists of the song and ask them to scream for another 2-3 minutes so we have a more interesting second half of the song.

Also, I'm actually interested in your opinion on the map, mind sharing?

I'm surprised. You seem to be sooo knowledgeable about the community's overall opinion, but you failed to notice the mod I just posted before you made all these bullshit statements.

I'd have personally preferred that current mods are not simply entirely rejected in sake of defending the qualification status of the map but instead noted and considered as a real suggestion in case this map gets dq'd so the map COULD be better in a way that the community won't spam a load of "fuck you"s at the map.

Nelly wrote:

User ratings are just the same as making a review to the game by yourself but instead its a map. The user should feel a comfortable notes and patterns not this miss kick

If we talk about user ratings, then really, shouldn't we look at the positive ones?
If you don't like a map, you might vote 1 star, and then never play it again.
However, the user ratings tells me, that at least 19 people enjoyed this map. This is more than the latest ranked map. Surely, if a lot of people enjoy the map, that's enough reason to rank it, regardless of how many people dislike it?

Smoothie World wrote:

You're listening to a VOCAL minority, not an OVERWHELMING majority. Reddit is not an OVERWHELMING portion of the community.

Even though reddit isnt a large portion of the community, 99% of people on Reddit agree this map shouldn't be ranked. And since anyone can post on Reddit and its not like theres a serious bias against monstrata, the percentage can reflect on the entirety of the community

And I know circlejerking is a factor, but the thing is people on Reddit really like Monstrata, and also osu isnt really something you circlejerk about

Smoothie World wrote:

Look at Shiirn's most recent post. Not gonna explain this one again. He explains it well.

Agreed.

Smoothie World wrote:

There's not a single stream over 5 notes. Stop pulling false facts out of your ass. Also, what do you even consider "TAG-4 Jumps?" I'm going to assume you mean cross-screen jumps, which there are a couple, but they match the music and aren't consistent throughout the map. They are only when the song calls for them.

Didn't mean streams, meant sliders. I'm not too familar with forum posting so I'll go ahead and snatch what I meant from someone else:

Minifrij wrote:

02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1)

This is the pathern I was talking about.

Smoothie World wrote:

Ok, let's just call up the artists of the song and ask them to scream for another 2-3 minutes so we have a more interesting second half of the song.

Then maybe this map shouldn't be a 8*+ map, but yet again, that's only me.

Smoothie World wrote:

I'm surprised. You seem to be sooo knowledgeable about the community's overall opinion, but you failed to notice the mod I just posted before you made all these bullshit statements.

Yup missed that Mr. Douchebag.

Going to sleep now, maybe I'll reply to you tomorrows, pce.

usephysics wrote:

Smoothie World wrote:

You're listening to a VOCAL minority, not an OVERWHELMING majority. Reddit is not an OVERWHELMING portion of the community.

Even though reddit isnt a large portion of the community, 99% of people on Reddit agree this map shouldn't be ranked. And since anyone can post on Reddit and its not like theres a serious bias against monstrata, the percentage can reflect on the entirety of the community

And I know circlejerking is a factor, but the thing is people on Reddit really like Monstrata, and also osu isnt really something you circlejerk about

Reddit is, again, a vocal minority. The people in support of the map aren't gonna comment "I like this map," and if they do, they will just get downvoted to shit and buried and they know it. They're "hidden," if you will. There's plenty of people on Reddit who like the map, but they simply aren't posting it. I want you to go into Reddit, and come back and send me one comment from the thread from a person that has contributed to the map via a mod.

Didn't mean streams, meant sliders. I'm not too familar with forum posting so I'll go ahead and snatch what I meant from someone else:

Minifrij wrote:

02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1)

This is the pathern I was talking about.

I think you might want to actually click that and see what pattern it takes you to, and then correct yourself.

Then maybe this map shouldn't be a 8*+ map, but yet again, that's only me.

Ok, let's get peppy instead. Surely he can change the star rating algorithm just for this map so that it isn't 8 stars.

Yup missed that Mr. Douchebag.

Going to sleep now, maybe I'll reply to you tomorrows, pce

Nice creative insult I'm deeply offended.

Smoothie World wrote:

Then maybe this map shouldn't be a 8*+ map, but yet again, that's only me.

Ok, let's get peppy instead. Surely he can change the star rating algorithm just for this map so that it isn't 8 stars.

I think he meant maybe the patterns on this map shouldn't be so retarded that it pushes the map to be >8*. Stop trying to be a smart ass, it doesn't help your case whatsoever.

Smoothie World wrote:

I think you might want to actually click that and see what pattern it takes you to, and then correct yourself.

That's the "TAG4 Jumps" I was talking about.

I think he meant maybe the patterns on this map shouldn't be so retarded that it pushes the map to be >8*. Stop trying to be a smart ass, it doesn't help your case whatsoever.

If that pattern is deleted entirely, the star rating goes down an entire 0.09 stars. It's gonna be over 8 stars either way.

QTS wrote:

Smoothie World wrote:

I think you might want to actually click that and see what pattern it takes you to, and then correct yourself.

That's the "TAG4 Jumps" I was talking about.

You said slider jumps but ok. Do you have a suggestion to change them? What pattern would you otherwise suggest?

Smoothie World wrote:

If that pattern is deleted entirely, the star rating goes down an entire 0.09 stars. It's gonna be over 8 stars either way.

That implies there is only one pattern that shouldn't be ranked in that entire map. If you change all the things that are stupid to a point that they are playable (IE every 280BPM massively spaced single tap pattern) then the map could be closer to a more accurate rating.
Right now it just looks like someone who has had the game installed for 2 months tried making a heavy metal map and over exaggerated everything to add 'challenge'.

Smoothie World wrote:

You said slider jumps but ok. Do you have a suggestion to change them? What pattern would you otherwise suggest?

I don't have a lot of mapping knowledge, but I would like something more doable and not TAG4-like jumps

Minifrij wrote:

Smoothie World wrote:

If that pattern is deleted entirely, the star rating goes down an entire 0.09 stars. It's gonna be over 8 stars either way.

That implies there is only one pattern that shouldn't be ranked in that entire map. If you change all the things that are stupid to a point that they are playable (IE every 280BPM massively spaced single tap pattern) then the map could be closer to a more accurate rating.
Right now it just looks like someone who has had the game installed for 2 months tried making a heavy metal map and over exaggerated everything to add 'challenge'.

Alright, I want to challenge you to something then. I want you to link all of the patterns that you feel should be changed, why they should be changed, and what you think would be the best pattern you can possibly change them to. If you can't do those three simple things, then you don't deserve to be bashing the map. If you do those 3 things, then cool, you positively impacted the map.

fieryrage wrote:

Pacemaker wrote:

Wtf does that even mean. Collectively hating/liking something does not equal circlejerking. Even good mappers get shit ratings when they fuck up

because i'm sure a majority of these red votes are from people who this map isn't even intended for.

There we have it. This map was, in fact, intended for no one. The only people who are defending it don't care about playing it, they're just trying to get some point across for whatever reason

QTS wrote:

Smoothie World wrote:

You said slider jumps but ok. Do you have a suggestion to change them? What pattern would you otherwise suggest?

I don't have a lot of mapping knowledge, but I would like something more doable and not TAG4-like jumps

So basically, you went through all of this, and you don't even have a solution. I recommend shutting your mouth unless you have something positive to contribute. You can't just say something is bad and then not have a reason behind it and then use your lack of mapping knowledge as an excuse. If you don't have mapping knowledge or anything to contribute, then don't say anything. It's very simple.

Pacemaker wrote:

There we have it. This map was, in fact, intended for no one. The only people who are defending it don't care about playing it, they're just trying to get some point across for whatever reason

I played the map and enjoyed it. Your argument is invalid.

Smoothie World wrote:

So basically, you went through all of this, and you don't even have a solution. I recommend shutting your mouth unless you have something positive to contribute. You can't just say something is bad and then not have a reason behind it and then use your lack of mapping knowledge as an excuse. If you don't have mapping knowledge or anything to contribute, then don't say anything. It's very simple.

Now it seems like you're implying that players are not allowed to have an opinion if they don't have any mapping knowledge. What I'm saying is that I think the jumps are too hard and they need to be toned down. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and my opinion is that the jumps are way too difficult. It's indeed very simple.

QTS wrote:

Smoothie World wrote:

So basically, you went through all of this, and you don't even have a solution. I recommend shutting your mouth unless you have something positive to contribute. You can't just say something is bad and then not have a reason behind it and then use your lack of mapping knowledge as an excuse. If you don't have mapping knowledge or anything to contribute, then don't say anything. It's very simple.

Now it seems like you're implying that players are not allowed to have an opinion if they don't have any mapping knowledge. What I'm saying is that I think the jumps are too hard and they need to be toned down. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and my opinion is that the jumps are way too difficult. It's indeed very simple.

...but why do you feel that way? Elaborate. Go into the editor, go to the patterns you feel should be altered, and post them here, say why you feel they should be altered, and what the mapper can do better in that pattern. I do believe everyone is entitled to an opinion, but an opinion without reasoning is worthless to share publicly.

Smoothie World wrote:

...but why do you feel that way? Elaborate. Go into the editor, go to the patterns you feel should be altered, and post them here, say why you feel they should be altered, and what the mapper can do better in that pattern. I do believe everyone is entitled to an opinion, but an opinion without reasoning is worthless to share publicly.

I feel that way because... the jumps are too hard? That's my entire reasoning behind it, it seems very hard to hit those jumps, and I feel that they can be referenced towards the jumps used in TAG4 maps. Maybe I'll to it later today, if I have the time, right now it's 2:30 AM and I need some sleep badly.

Also, I'd like to apologize for being rude earlier, sorry.

Obviously the biggest issue with this map is that it's made intentionally worse looking, which is why people dislike it so much, its not like they downvote the map because they dislike Monstrata, actually the community loves monstrata or well at least used to. They are simply trying to make their voices heard in this.

It's obvious that this map has an issue so why not fix the issue instead of ignoring it and shrugging it off with some far fetched it fits the music or whatever, honestly how thick headed can you be, learn to accept some feedback, get off your high horse and fix the actual problem with this map.

I think most of us knows that there lies a good map below this, why dont you bring that map forward instead of this heap of drama and hate that you've managed to bring upon yourself.

jesus fucking christ guys.

the only real pressing issues, to me, are the od / ar choice (monstrata, i get apparition had notelocking issues mainly on the streams but believe me when i say the high bpm jumps here have notelocking as a huge issue -- the ar helps a bit with the notelocking because you get less of a chance to react early to the note (causing the notelock) but since you want to keep that due to the slow part at the end..yea) and the slider spam starting at 02:26:362 (1) - since this is near unplayable. it'd work a lot better playability wise if the slider ends / heads were swapped so you don't have to move the cursor as much. i didn't originally post this in my mod because i didn't feel like it was a huge issue, but then i actually played it and i almost always consistently fail here due to how much shit is going on (low ar here doesn't help either).

so, now that we actually have something to work on, let's continue building on some issues we think should be addressed instead of shitposting, yeah? after all this is a community driven ranking process and shitposting does literally nothing to help anyone.

Smoothie World wrote:

Alright, I want to challenge you to something then. I want you to link all of the patterns that you feel should be changed, why they should be changed, and what you think would be the best pattern you can possibly change them to. If you can't do those three simple things, then you don't deserve to be bashing the map. If you do those 3 things, then cool, you positively impacted the map.

I'll do my best. Not a mapper, but here are some of the things I think are pretty ridiculous.

00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - For such a gradual increase in the main vocals, I think that the spacing going from |-|-|-|--|--|--|--| is pretty silly. It implies that a massive change has happened in the vocal line, when in fact the vocals had only just began to shout by the end. Perhaps a more gradual increase of spacing would be in order, mainly starting from the second round pattern to map it more closely.
In addition to this, and it may just be personal preference (I'm not too big of a fan of repeated patterns), but I think the pattern should be changed from two pentagons. Perhaps something closer to an S pattern following the screen would be better, as the flow already moving from the cursor could carry round in a more natural movement than jagged circles.

00:40:385 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4) - I believe that these jumps are simply too spaced out for their BPM. I can understand why they are like that in terms of the feel of the song at that moment, however going from the top left corner to the bottom right by the last jump is personally too much.

00:48:623 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - When essentially nothing happens here throughout the song to increase the intensity (the vocalist changes, that's about it) I see no reason for the jumps to be increasing in size so dramatically. It seems to just be arbitrarily increasing the difficulty just for a high star rating and to add 'challenge'.

01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - This is just slider spam, just like the pattern after it. I can't think of a better way to do this, though I can imagine either replacing the sliders in a way similar to what can be found in this grumd map* or by delaying every second slider and having them repeat once, whilst lowering the space between each slider could be better. Once again, I'm not 100% sure of this, but the way it is currently is is just spam.

02:26:362 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - etc. Same shit as above.

02:33:171 (1) - This completely kills any energy built up in the previous parts of the map. That, and it is essentially impossible to know that it is there without playing the map prior to it, causing an almost definite slider break. Perhaps replacing with a spinner could be better.

02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - Tag 4 jumps. I'm sure you already know why I don't like these; they are stupidly spaced and are most likely impossible to hit without complete luck.

Other than that, the sliders are extremely ugly. Then again, if that's the A E S T H E T I C the map is going for then I suppose I can't particularly question it.

*E:

fieryrage wrote:

it'd work a lot better playability wise if the slider ends / heads were swapped so you don't have to move the cursor as much. i didn't originally post this in my mod because i didn't feel like it was a huge issue, but then i actually played it and i almost always consistently fail here due to how much shit is going on (low ar here doesn't help either).

Yeah essentially what this guy said.

Monstrata wrote:

Maybe people downvoted cuz they didn't like me? or that they thought the song was too hard? You can't determine the intention for someone's 1 vote xD. Loctav currently has the most downvoted map on osu. Does that make him or the map bad? No. Some taiko BN's tell me t's actually good... but you can clearly see people DTNF'ing it with like 50 points just to downvote to spite him.

Not in this case and you know it well, people always rate your map goods, it's just that this map is going too far, this is an offense for all these mappers that work alot to get their map rankeds, they don't feel fun with this. I'm wonder if this map get ranked how you'll ask to other mappers to map with quality? I'll feel bad when I ask for improvements and they link me this map as example.
The community reaction is really negative towards this map, that should be enough for you and the QAT team to don't rank this map, since is a community based system..


I'll mod this later as well if I can get the time to do it

Warpyc wrote:

Obviously the biggest issue with this map is that it's made intentionally worse looking, which is why people dislike it so much, its not like they downvote the map because they dislike Monstrata, actually the community loves monstrata or well at least used to. They are simply trying to make their voices heard in this.

It's obvious that this map has an issue so why not fix the issue instead of ignoring it and shrugging it off with some far fetched it fits the music or whatever, honestly how thick headed can you be, learn to accept some feedback, get off your high horse and fix the actual problem with this map.

I think most of us knows that there lies a good map below this, why dont you bring that map forward instead of this heap of drama and hate that you've managed to bring upon yourself.

Why does a map have to be beautiful for it to be good?

Gladi was mention about this and you replied
01:36:505 (2) - The vocals are 1/3 here. Mapping this on a blue tick to somehow follow a bit of vocals is already pretty silly as it stands, but it's also completely wrong in this occasion. No, its 1/4

i totally disagree with your opinion (monstrata's) it's completely 1/3. On 1/4 section, it's just a drum but you're following the vocals

edit : oh well, it 00:00:838 - 05:00:988 -

the break that not mapped is from 00:14:408 - until 00:17:766 - that feels annoying for me

i would add more .-. the ending of this map is quite silly when the music finished on 05:00:596 - and monstrata ends the spinner on 05:00:988 - like somehow it's allowed at all for extending the drain time at all.

.-.

don't know if its been mentioned before but 00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - is one of the worst patterns you can introduce here, its such an ugly motion and probably impossible to snap to, causing it to have no intensity, which the song calls for. its also pretty annoying to read for no reason

00:41:339 (5) - this slider also feels way too out of place, very annoying to play after hitting the jumps

Pacemaker wrote:

jawns wrote:

Why does a map have to be beautiful for it to be good?

We are approaching the bottom aren't we. The impact's gonna hurt

Not really. A map really doesn't have to be "beautiful" to be good.

Enkidu wrote:

Not really. A map really doesn't have to be "beautiful" to be good.

Well, as I take it, in the context of the post he quoted, he meant maps having any aesthetic value, not being outright beautiful. And to allow ranked maps be "ugly because the song is ugly" sounds like edgy horseshit to me

well i think this map is decent to be reanked.
but for real there will be no players to actually play this (or even pass)

Pacemaker wrote:

Enkidu wrote:

Not really. A map really doesn't have to be "beautiful" to be good.

Well, as I take it, in the context of the post he quoted, he meant maps having any aesthetic value, not being outright beautiful. And to allow ranked maps be "ugly because the song is ugly" sounds like edgy horseshit to me

Again, not really. The point of mapping is to map a song the way you /feel/ it should be mapped. If someone feels like a map should be ugly, they should map it to look ugly.

Pacemaker wrote:

fieryrage wrote:

Hey, guys, user rating means literally nothing because half of the time it ends up in a circlejerk instead of showcasing the actual map quality.

just saying

Wtf does that even mean. Collectively hating/liking something does not equal circlejerking. Even good mappers get shit ratings when they fuck up

What it means? It just means that this beatmap was specifically targeted by the osu reddit community to downvote it, if you dont see that, then you're a sad person with low intellect, which you are anyways when I look at your poor attempts to "burn" people. Idk this map, don't really care either but hating on something just because it gets qualified is just stupid. I don't go around and tell people to stop eating tomatoes just because I don't like them.

What's so damn hard in avoiding something you don't like? Your opinion isnt superior to anyone else's so don't act like you're some godsent messias.

Can we stay on topic and either speak about the map itself in a constructive way or leave the thread?

Thanks.

Isn't this unrankable without a full difficulty spread? It's not 5 minutes long...

I'll just leave my 2 cents here as someone who's seen a lot of shit in the past 4 years, has been an avid player, mapped about 100~ different mapsets (not including the maps where I just started the first few seconds only to drop it afterwards), and has modded all kinds of different maps to varying degrees of success.

Looking at this this map, there's one thing no one can deny: It's mapped entirely for the novelty of the speed, slider velocity and erratic movements, as well as ridiculous difficulty.
This is not an inherently bad thing. There have been many people who have done similar things, and there's generally always some kind of backlash, just like with this here.

I think that if this concept is explored and executed properly and with caution, it can result in high quality mapping just like any other.

However I feel that this is not the case here. The concept and idea is fine, but the execution is sloppy. The hitobject placement, the patterns and sliders are deliberately unappealing to make the map has as much of a disjointed feeling as the music. To me, this is rather lazy. Just because the music is fast paced and wild doesn't mean you have to make the mapping ugly to make it fitting. It's not like there's no continuity or consistency in the music, so having the quite literally jumpo around in patterns randomly doesn't seem approppriate to me. Finding the right balance between,clean fast paced jump patterns and literally just putting back and forth fullscreen jumps is something that would increase this maps quality I think.
Then there's the second half of the song, i.e. 02:57:257 - and onward. I feel like going with your idea of mapping you would want this to be much more clean than the previous half because of the contrast in tone and you kiiinda did that by not using those stupid (sorry) sliders anymore, but then you mess up easy blankets like 03:16:894 (5,1) - which feels really offputting, or rather, lazy. Overall it feels like the second half was lacking in concept and just rushed to finish the diff quickly.


Then there's the issue of overmapping. 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - Honestly I have absolutely no idea what you're even trying to do with these. As far as my ears are concerned, there's no 1/4 going on here, and even if you're just going for emphasis on the "vocals", this sounds REALLY awkward, especially since the hitsounds on the slidertails are of the same strength than those on the sliderheads. This literally screams "yeah for the lulz". It isn't supported by the music in any way and should frankly be completely trashed before this map is going for actual ranking. That would apply 02:26:362 - to this entire section of course.

Generally this map gives off a vibe of "because I can", and I don't think that way of thinking should be encouraged. The modding and ranking process right now is pretty fucking frustrating for people with smaller influence or less popularity, and while I'm usually the last one to tell anyone not to make use of their popularity, because in a community like this that means you have worked hard to achieve that status, I really think this map in in its current state in particular is just equivalent to shoving a giant dick into anyone's face that has trouble moving forward much less controversial maps. (long sentence sorry)
Basically what I'm trying to say, I'd be fine with this going for rank if I felt like it had gotten the effort, time and care it needed to really be of quality, which I think isn't the case right now.

UrnuryMegiken wrote:

Isn't this unrankable without a full difficulty spread? It's not 5 minutes long...

Look at the time when the last spinner finishes, then move to the time when the map starts. It's something around 5:00:100.

Bakari wrote:

UrnuryMegiken wrote:

Isn't this unrankable without a full difficulty spread? It's not 5 minutes long...

Look at the time when the last spinner finishes, then move to the time when the map starts. It's something around 5:00:100.

so is the "4:48 drain time" a glitch?

Ora wrote:

Bakari wrote:

Look at the time when the last spinner finishes, then move to the time when the map starts. It's something around 5:00:100.

so is the "4:48 drain time" a glitch?

No, osu! site just doesn't take into account final spinners in any map.

Zare wrote:

Generally this map gives off a vibe of "because I can", and I don't think that way of thinking should be encouraged. The modding and ranking process right now is pretty fucking frustrating for people with smaller influence or less popularity, and while I'm usually the last one to tell anyone not to make use of their popularity, because in a community like this that means you have worked hard to achieve that status, I really think this map in in its current state in particular is just equivalent to shoving a giant dick into anyone's face that has trouble moving forward much less controversial maps. (long sentence sorry)
Basically what I'm trying to say, I'd be fine with this going for rank if I felt like it had gotten the effort, time and care it needed to really be of quality, which I think isn't the case right now.

I'm gonna be frank here and say that this argument has no place in a beatmap-thread. This is an issue with the ranking system, so take this argument where it belongs and away from here. If the map is rankable, it deserves to be ranked. I feel like many people here are getting sidetracked. I don't care if this is monstrata's or anyone's map, and neither should you, if you want to retain any sense of objectivity. You should look at the map and criticize it as a map - not as "a message that you believe monstrata sends to other mappers and that can only be understood by looking at the bigger picture, aka a flawed ranking system that favors certain mappers more than others".

It's a map, and a good one at that. Not a pretty map, for most people also not a playable map, but hey. I hope it gets ranked and I hope I can be a good enough player to take it on some day.

Railey2 wrote:

Zare wrote:

Generally this map gives off a vibe of "because I can", and I don't think that way of thinking should be encouraged. The modding and ranking process right now is pretty fucking frustrating for people with smaller influence or less popularity, and while I'm usually the last one to tell anyone not to make use of their popularity, because in a community like this that means you have worked hard to achieve that status, I really think this map in in its current state in particular is just equivalent to shoving a giant dick into anyone's face that has trouble moving forward much less controversial maps. (long sentence sorry)
Basically what I'm trying to say, I'd be fine with this going for rank if I felt like it had gotten the effort, time and care it needed to really be of quality, which I think isn't the case right now.

I'm gonna be frank here and say that this argument has no place in a beatmap-thread. This is an issue with the ranking system, so take this argument where it belongs and away from here. If the map is rankable, it deserves to be ranked. I feel like many people here are getting sidetracked. I don't care if this is monstrata's or anyone's map, and neither should you, if you want to retain any sense of objectivity. You should look at the map and criticize it as a map - not as "a message that you believe monstrata sends to other mappers and that can only be understood by looking at the bigger picture, aka a flawed ranking system that favors certain mappers more than others".

It's a map, and a good one at that. Not a pretty map, for most people also not a playable map, but hey. I hope it gets ranked and I hope I can be a good enough player to take it on some day.

Hence my point that this map could be much better if it had gotten the proper treament in development. I think it could be high quality and suitable for ranking, but isn't. I merely expanded on this and it's reason.

my opinion is barely worth anything, but i honestly feel like it's just a weird song to map

it basically plays like two entirely seperate songs, it's very frontloaded - with the somewhat recent trend of arbitrarily cutting song lengths, my initial idea was to slice off the slow part, tone down the difficulty a bit and maybe do a full spread? i do understand that full spreads are a lot of effort, but i think a lot of people would be happier to see even a 5.5-6.5 diff on this - 8.3* only is kind of extreme, especially when you had to do spinner bullshit to get to approval time.

i love the song

dreamless wrote:

my opinion is barely worth anything, but i honestly feel like it's just a weird song to map

it basically plays like two entirely seperate songs, it's very frontloaded - with the somewhat recent trend of arbitrarily cutting song lengths, my initial idea was to slice off the slow part, tone down the difficulty a bit and maybe do a full spread? i do understand that full spreads are a lot of effort, but i think a lot of people would be happier to see even a 5.5-6.5 diff on this - 8.3* only is kind of extreme, especially when you had to do spinner bullshit to get to approval time.

If you cut out the slow part, it'd sound really weird to have it end so abruptly.

Bakari wrote:

UrnuryMegiken wrote:

Isn't this unrankable without a full difficulty spread? It's not 5 minutes long...

Look at the time when the last spinner finishes, then move to the time when the map starts. It's something around 5:00:100.

But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?

Looking through the map, I find some of the inputs provided by the community valid.

Please have your discussion stick to the map only and anything not constructive would be removed.

EDIT:

hoozimajiget wrote:

But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?

I am curious about this.

00:21:206 (1,2) - aww this nc setting didn't felt cool enough. Starting at (2) would've divided the 1/3 and the 1/2 better, and fit the new vocals better. Didn't spotted that b4.

IamKwaN wrote:

EDIT:

hoozimajiget wrote:

But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?

I am curious about this.

Monstrata artificially added the applause at the end.

Pacemaker wrote:

There we have it. This map was, in fact, intended for no one. The only people who are defending it don't care about playing it, they're just trying to get some point across for whatever reason

most people might gave this red vote because of how something like this can be qualified in a few months while there are many, i mean many good maps that is waiting on the pending section. even fort told me that every BN is afraid to qualify his map even though most people playing it gave positive feedbacks

IamKwaN wrote:

Looking through the map, I find some of the inputs provided by the community valid.

Please have your discussion stick to the map only and anything not constructive would be removed.

EDIT:

hoozimajiget wrote:

But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?

I am curious about this.

This is a very vague DQ reason "I find some of the inputs provided by the community valid.", it gives the mapper very vague direction on how to make the map rankable again lol.

But the actual song length noted in the album track listing is 4:46. So how are there 14 seconds of artificially generated length?

the answer is in the question!

"artificially generated length"

how neat is that? (fucking hell... )