I'll try to help out here

02:50:353 - this red point you should do it 7/4 instead of 4/4 imo
03:11:415 (1) - end this at 03:13:440 - if you're trying to follow vocal
04:42:747 - add 109 BPM redline
04:44:784 - change this to 114 BPM
04:45:311 (1) - you can make this heart slider much better than now

234,109,285311,6,0,B|234:102|203:78|143:78|136:142|109:196|189:209|257:289|257:289|324:209|404:196|377:142|370:78|310:78|277:102|278:116,1,599.999981689454,2|2,0:0|0:2,0:0:0:0:

04:49:426 (1) - at the spinner end you can put a whistle here

even if it's too harder it's a great map, don't let the user rating let winny upload continue his road
if I didn't helped, don't gimme kudosu

Do people genuinely think that 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) this is a rankable pattern? Random cross screen square jumps? I swear I've seen this before... Oh yeah! In a fucking tag 4 map.
Whoever decided that this is good enough quality to be added to the osu! map pool needs to be permanently removed from their position; they have no clue what they are talking about.

Smoothie World wrote:

However, when it comes to judging a map's "fun" amount, how can Nelly tell if it's a fun map when he can't even pass it? And where are the facts? You can't just blindly say a map isn't fun and then not contribute anything...

There have been multiple people from the top 50 state negative feelings about the map. Can they have an opinion on it, or can you find some other excuse?

Smoothie World wrote:

However, when it comes to judging a map's "fun" amount, how can Nelly tell if it's a fun map when he can't even pass it? And where are the facts? You can't just blindly say a map isn't fun and then not contribute anything...

What facts do you want? Would it help if I measured the amount of pixels between each jump, and labeled it "too fucking many"?

Regardless, fun isn't a factor on how maps are ranked and shouldn't ever be; it's subjective. Graces of Heaven is pretty fun for those who can play it I expect, but it should never by any means be ranked. Maps should be based on ranking conventions, many of which this map shoves the middle finger to but gets through anyway.

Shiirn wrote:

Monstrata's not entirely wrong, a lot of 1 votes are used as a "fuck you" button.


But you have to wonder what the players are pressing "fuck you" for. For me, with Final Answer, years ago, it was because I made myself the enemy of the entire chinese community. For Loctav, it was a particular comment he made blah blah. Either case, in both cases, the "fuck you" was done regardless of the map. It was because me and Loctav pissed people off by being dicks.


I'm pretty sure the "fuck you"s for this map aren't entirely because you pissed off people in a separate situation, Monstrata.

Totally agree with this, I should have mentioned it as well, but I guess there's no need for me to do it anymore since you did it yourself

QTS wrote:

Looking at the map's user rating, the OVERWHELMING majority dislikes the map.

The majority of the players who use the rating system have given it a low rating. The majority of active players do not even use this system (though I could be wrong here, to be fair).

QTS wrote:

Also, half-ish of the map consists of a very slow-phased phase, and now don't get me wrong, I like when mappers use those as "breaks" but for me, I think that close to half of the map being of that charachter, is too much.

The song itself consists of a very slow part after the ridiculously fast part. Can't map it to be ridiculously fast like the rest of the song if it's slow.

Enkidu wrote:

QTS wrote:

Looking at the map's user rating, the OVERWHELMING majority dislikes the map.

The majority of the players who use the rating system have given it a low rating. The majority of active players do not even use this system (though I could be wrong here, to be fair).

QTS wrote:

Also, half-ish of the map consists of a very slow-phased phase, and now don't get me wrong, I like when mappers use those as "breaks" but for me, I think that close to half of the map being of that charachter, is too much.

The song itself consists of a very slow part after the ridiculously fast part. Can't map it to be ridiculously fast like the rest of the song if it's slow.

Then maybe the song isn't supposed to be a 8*+ song in the first place, although this is only my personal opinion.

User ratings are just the same as making a review to the game by yourself but instead its a map. The user should feel a comfortable notes and patterns not this miss kick

I don't understand why people have an issue with the 2 last minutes of the map being slow, honestly. It had to be made to fit the song, and having a long slow part towards the end is not unheard of before this.

Cosmic cortex has 3 minutes of extremely boring mapping before the map even starts but i didnt see nearly as much shit then.

Looking at the map's user rating, the OVERWHELMING majority dislikes the map. I never mentioned reddit as the overwhelming majority but there are comments on there that opinionate the map as a whole, likewise here.

Look at Shiirn's most recent post. Not gonna explain this one again. He explains it well.

As I mentioned, I think that the map consists of low-quality "spam streams" as well as TAG-4 Jumps.

There's not a single stream over 5 notes. Stop pulling false facts out of your ass. Also, what do you even consider "TAG-4 Jumps?" I'm going to assume you mean cross-screen jumps, which there are a couple, but they match the music and aren't consistent throughout the map. They are only when the song calls for them.

Also, half-ish of the map consists of a very slow-phased phase, and now don't get me wrong, I like when mappers use those as "breaks" but for me, I think that close to half of the map being of that charachter, is too much.

Ok, let's just call up the artists of the song and ask them to scream for another 2-3 minutes so we have a more interesting second half of the song.

Also, I'm actually interested in your opinion on the map, mind sharing?

I'm surprised. You seem to be sooo knowledgeable about the community's overall opinion, but you failed to notice the mod I just posted before you made all these bullshit statements.

Smoothie World wrote:

Ok, let's just call up the artists of the song and ask them to scream for another 2-3 minutes so we have a more interesting second half of the song.

This is precisely what I was thinking, but I worded it differently, lol

I'd have personally preferred that current mods are not simply entirely rejected in sake of defending the qualification status of the map but instead noted and considered as a real suggestion in case this map gets dq'd so the map COULD be better in a way that the community won't spam a load of "fuck you"s at the map.

Nelly wrote:

User ratings are just the same as making a review to the game by yourself but instead its a map. The user should feel a comfortable notes and patterns not this miss kick

If we talk about user ratings, then really, shouldn't we look at the positive ones?
If you don't like a map, you might vote 1 star, and then never play it again.
However, the user ratings tells me, that at least 19 people enjoyed this map. This is more than the latest ranked map. Surely, if a lot of people enjoy the map, that's enough reason to rank it, regardless of how many people dislike it?

Smoothie World wrote:

You're listening to a VOCAL minority, not an OVERWHELMING majority. Reddit is not an OVERWHELMING portion of the community.

Even though reddit isnt a large portion of the community, 99% of people on Reddit agree this map shouldn't be ranked. And since anyone can post on Reddit and its not like theres a serious bias against monstrata, the percentage can reflect on the entirety of the community

And I know circlejerking is a factor, but the thing is people on Reddit really like Monstrata, and also osu isnt really something you circlejerk about

Smoothie World wrote:

Look at Shiirn's most recent post. Not gonna explain this one again. He explains it well.

Agreed.

Smoothie World wrote:

There's not a single stream over 5 notes. Stop pulling false facts out of your ass. Also, what do you even consider "TAG-4 Jumps?" I'm going to assume you mean cross-screen jumps, which there are a couple, but they match the music and aren't consistent throughout the map. They are only when the song calls for them.

Didn't mean streams, meant sliders. I'm not too familar with forum posting so I'll go ahead and snatch what I meant from someone else:

Minifrij wrote:

02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1)

This is the pathern I was talking about.

Smoothie World wrote:

Ok, let's just call up the artists of the song and ask them to scream for another 2-3 minutes so we have a more interesting second half of the song.

Then maybe this map shouldn't be a 8*+ map, but yet again, that's only me.

Smoothie World wrote:

I'm surprised. You seem to be sooo knowledgeable about the community's overall opinion, but you failed to notice the mod I just posted before you made all these bullshit statements.

Yup missed that Mr. Douchebag.

Going to sleep now, maybe I'll reply to you tomorrows, pce.

usephysics wrote:

Smoothie World wrote:

You're listening to a VOCAL minority, not an OVERWHELMING majority. Reddit is not an OVERWHELMING portion of the community.

Even though reddit isnt a large portion of the community, 99% of people on Reddit agree this map shouldn't be ranked. And since anyone can post on Reddit and its not like theres a serious bias against monstrata, the percentage can reflect on the entirety of the community

And I know circlejerking is a factor, but the thing is people on Reddit really like Monstrata, and also osu isnt really something you circlejerk about

Reddit is, again, a vocal minority. The people in support of the map aren't gonna comment "I like this map," and if they do, they will just get downvoted to shit and buried and they know it. They're "hidden," if you will. There's plenty of people on Reddit who like the map, but they simply aren't posting it. I want you to go into Reddit, and come back and send me one comment from the thread from a person that has contributed to the map via a mod.

Didn't mean streams, meant sliders. I'm not too familar with forum posting so I'll go ahead and snatch what I meant from someone else:

Minifrij wrote:

02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1)

This is the pathern I was talking about.

I think you might want to actually click that and see what pattern it takes you to, and then correct yourself.

Then maybe this map shouldn't be a 8*+ map, but yet again, that's only me.

Ok, let's get peppy instead. Surely he can change the star rating algorithm just for this map so that it isn't 8 stars.

Yup missed that Mr. Douchebag.

Going to sleep now, maybe I'll reply to you tomorrows, pce

Nice creative insult I'm deeply offended.

Smoothie World wrote:

Then maybe this map shouldn't be a 8*+ map, but yet again, that's only me.

Ok, let's get peppy instead. Surely he can change the star rating algorithm just for this map so that it isn't 8 stars.

I think he meant maybe the patterns on this map shouldn't be so retarded that it pushes the map to be >8*. Stop trying to be a smart ass, it doesn't help your case whatsoever.

Smoothie World wrote:

I think you might want to actually click that and see what pattern it takes you to, and then correct yourself.

That's the "TAG4 Jumps" I was talking about.

I think he meant maybe the patterns on this map shouldn't be so retarded that it pushes the map to be >8*. Stop trying to be a smart ass, it doesn't help your case whatsoever.

If that pattern is deleted entirely, the star rating goes down an entire 0.09 stars. It's gonna be over 8 stars either way.

QTS wrote:

Smoothie World wrote:

I think you might want to actually click that and see what pattern it takes you to, and then correct yourself.

That's the "TAG4 Jumps" I was talking about.

You said slider jumps but ok. Do you have a suggestion to change them? What pattern would you otherwise suggest?

Smoothie World wrote:

If that pattern is deleted entirely, the star rating goes down an entire 0.09 stars. It's gonna be over 8 stars either way.

That implies there is only one pattern that shouldn't be ranked in that entire map. If you change all the things that are stupid to a point that they are playable (IE every 280BPM massively spaced single tap pattern) then the map could be closer to a more accurate rating.
Right now it just looks like someone who has had the game installed for 2 months tried making a heavy metal map and over exaggerated everything to add 'challenge'.

Smoothie World wrote:

You said slider jumps but ok. Do you have a suggestion to change them? What pattern would you otherwise suggest?

I don't have a lot of mapping knowledge, but I would like something more doable and not TAG4-like jumps

Minifrij wrote:

Smoothie World wrote:

If that pattern is deleted entirely, the star rating goes down an entire 0.09 stars. It's gonna be over 8 stars either way.

That implies there is only one pattern that shouldn't be ranked in that entire map. If you change all the things that are stupid to a point that they are playable (IE every 280BPM massively spaced single tap pattern) then the map could be closer to a more accurate rating.
Right now it just looks like someone who has had the game installed for 2 months tried making a heavy metal map and over exaggerated everything to add 'challenge'.

Alright, I want to challenge you to something then. I want you to link all of the patterns that you feel should be changed, why they should be changed, and what you think would be the best pattern you can possibly change them to. If you can't do those three simple things, then you don't deserve to be bashing the map. If you do those 3 things, then cool, you positively impacted the map.

fieryrage wrote:

Pacemaker wrote:

Wtf does that even mean. Collectively hating/liking something does not equal circlejerking. Even good mappers get shit ratings when they fuck up

because i'm sure a majority of these red votes are from people who this map isn't even intended for.

There we have it. This map was, in fact, intended for no one. The only people who are defending it don't care about playing it, they're just trying to get some point across for whatever reason

QTS wrote:

Smoothie World wrote:

You said slider jumps but ok. Do you have a suggestion to change them? What pattern would you otherwise suggest?

I don't have a lot of mapping knowledge, but I would like something more doable and not TAG4-like jumps

So basically, you went through all of this, and you don't even have a solution. I recommend shutting your mouth unless you have something positive to contribute. You can't just say something is bad and then not have a reason behind it and then use your lack of mapping knowledge as an excuse. If you don't have mapping knowledge or anything to contribute, then don't say anything. It's very simple.

Pacemaker wrote:

There we have it. This map was, in fact, intended for no one. The only people who are defending it don't care about playing it, they're just trying to get some point across for whatever reason

I played the map and enjoyed it. Your argument is invalid.

Smoothie World wrote:

So basically, you went through all of this, and you don't even have a solution. I recommend shutting your mouth unless you have something positive to contribute. You can't just say something is bad and then not have a reason behind it and then use your lack of mapping knowledge as an excuse. If you don't have mapping knowledge or anything to contribute, then don't say anything. It's very simple.

Now it seems like you're implying that players are not allowed to have an opinion if they don't have any mapping knowledge. What I'm saying is that I think the jumps are too hard and they need to be toned down. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and my opinion is that the jumps are way too difficult. It's indeed very simple.

QTS wrote:

Smoothie World wrote:

So basically, you went through all of this, and you don't even have a solution. I recommend shutting your mouth unless you have something positive to contribute. You can't just say something is bad and then not have a reason behind it and then use your lack of mapping knowledge as an excuse. If you don't have mapping knowledge or anything to contribute, then don't say anything. It's very simple.

Now it seems like you're implying that players are not allowed to have an opinion if they don't have any mapping knowledge. What I'm saying is that I think the jumps are too hard and they need to be toned down. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and my opinion is that the jumps are way too difficult. It's indeed very simple.

...but why do you feel that way? Elaborate. Go into the editor, go to the patterns you feel should be altered, and post them here, say why you feel they should be altered, and what the mapper can do better in that pattern. I do believe everyone is entitled to an opinion, but an opinion without reasoning is worthless to share publicly.

Smoothie World wrote:

...but why do you feel that way? Elaborate. Go into the editor, go to the patterns you feel should be altered, and post them here, say why you feel they should be altered, and what the mapper can do better in that pattern. I do believe everyone is entitled to an opinion, but an opinion without reasoning is worthless to share publicly.

I feel that way because... the jumps are too hard? That's my entire reasoning behind it, it seems very hard to hit those jumps, and I feel that they can be referenced towards the jumps used in TAG4 maps. Maybe I'll to it later today, if I have the time, right now it's 2:30 AM and I need some sleep badly.

Also, I'd like to apologize for being rude earlier, sorry.

Obviously the biggest issue with this map is that it's made intentionally worse looking, which is why people dislike it so much, its not like they downvote the map because they dislike Monstrata, actually the community loves monstrata or well at least used to. They are simply trying to make their voices heard in this.

It's obvious that this map has an issue so why not fix the issue instead of ignoring it and shrugging it off with some far fetched it fits the music or whatever, honestly how thick headed can you be, learn to accept some feedback, get off your high horse and fix the actual problem with this map.

I think most of us knows that there lies a good map below this, why dont you bring that map forward instead of this heap of drama and hate that you've managed to bring upon yourself.

jesus fucking christ guys.

the only real pressing issues, to me, are the od / ar choice (monstrata, i get apparition had notelocking issues mainly on the streams but believe me when i say the high bpm jumps here have notelocking as a huge issue -- the ar helps a bit with the notelocking because you get less of a chance to react early to the note (causing the notelock) but since you want to keep that due to the slow part at the end..yea) and the slider spam starting at 02:26:362 (1) - since this is near unplayable. it'd work a lot better playability wise if the slider ends / heads were swapped so you don't have to move the cursor as much. i didn't originally post this in my mod because i didn't feel like it was a huge issue, but then i actually played it and i almost always consistently fail here due to how much shit is going on (low ar here doesn't help either).

so, now that we actually have something to work on, let's continue building on some issues we think should be addressed instead of shitposting, yeah? after all this is a community driven ranking process and shitposting does literally nothing to help anyone.

Smoothie World wrote:

Alright, I want to challenge you to something then. I want you to link all of the patterns that you feel should be changed, why they should be changed, and what you think would be the best pattern you can possibly change them to. If you can't do those three simple things, then you don't deserve to be bashing the map. If you do those 3 things, then cool, you positively impacted the map.

I'll do my best. Not a mapper, but here are some of the things I think are pretty ridiculous.

00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - For such a gradual increase in the main vocals, I think that the spacing going from |-|-|-|--|--|--|--| is pretty silly. It implies that a massive change has happened in the vocal line, when in fact the vocals had only just began to shout by the end. Perhaps a more gradual increase of spacing would be in order, mainly starting from the second round pattern to map it more closely.
In addition to this, and it may just be personal preference (I'm not too big of a fan of repeated patterns), but I think the pattern should be changed from two pentagons. Perhaps something closer to an S pattern following the screen would be better, as the flow already moving from the cursor could carry round in a more natural movement than jagged circles.

00:40:385 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4) - I believe that these jumps are simply too spaced out for their BPM. I can understand why they are like that in terms of the feel of the song at that moment, however going from the top left corner to the bottom right by the last jump is personally too much.

00:48:623 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - When essentially nothing happens here throughout the song to increase the intensity (the vocalist changes, that's about it) I see no reason for the jumps to be increasing in size so dramatically. It seems to just be arbitrarily increasing the difficulty just for a high star rating and to add 'challenge'.

01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - This is just slider spam, just like the pattern after it. I can't think of a better way to do this, though I can imagine either replacing the sliders in a way similar to what can be found in this grumd map* or by delaying every second slider and having them repeat once, whilst lowering the space between each slider could be better. Once again, I'm not 100% sure of this, but the way it is currently is is just spam.

02:26:362 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - etc. Same shit as above.

02:33:171 (1) - This completely kills any energy built up in the previous parts of the map. That, and it is essentially impossible to know that it is there without playing the map prior to it, causing an almost definite slider break. Perhaps replacing with a spinner could be better.

02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - Tag 4 jumps. I'm sure you already know why I don't like these; they are stupidly spaced and are most likely impossible to hit without complete luck.

Other than that, the sliders are extremely ugly. Then again, if that's the A E S T H E T I C the map is going for then I suppose I can't particularly question it.

*E:

fieryrage wrote:

it'd work a lot better playability wise if the slider ends / heads were swapped so you don't have to move the cursor as much. i didn't originally post this in my mod because i didn't feel like it was a huge issue, but then i actually played it and i almost always consistently fail here due to how much shit is going on (low ar here doesn't help either).

Yeah essentially what this guy said.

Monstrata wrote:

Maybe people downvoted cuz they didn't like me? or that they thought the song was too hard? You can't determine the intention for someone's 1 vote xD. Loctav currently has the most downvoted map on osu. Does that make him or the map bad? No. Some taiko BN's tell me t's actually good... but you can clearly see people DTNF'ing it with like 50 points just to downvote to spite him.

Not in this case and you know it well, people always rate your map goods, it's just that this map is going too far, this is an offense for all these mappers that work alot to get their map rankeds, they don't feel fun with this. I'm wonder if this map get ranked how you'll ask to other mappers to map with quality? I'll feel bad when I ask for improvements and they link me this map as example.
The community reaction is really negative towards this map, that should be enough for you and the QAT team to don't rank this map, since is a community based system..


I'll mod this later as well if I can get the time to do it

Warpyc wrote:

Obviously the biggest issue with this map is that it's made intentionally worse looking, which is why people dislike it so much, its not like they downvote the map because they dislike Monstrata, actually the community loves monstrata or well at least used to. They are simply trying to make their voices heard in this.

It's obvious that this map has an issue so why not fix the issue instead of ignoring it and shrugging it off with some far fetched it fits the music or whatever, honestly how thick headed can you be, learn to accept some feedback, get off your high horse and fix the actual problem with this map.

I think most of us knows that there lies a good map below this, why dont you bring that map forward instead of this heap of drama and hate that you've managed to bring upon yourself.

Why does a map have to be beautiful for it to be good?

Gladi was mention about this and you replied
01:36:505 (2) - The vocals are 1/3 here. Mapping this on a blue tick to somehow follow a bit of vocals is already pretty silly as it stands, but it's also completely wrong in this occasion. No, its 1/4

i totally disagree with your opinion (monstrata's) it's completely 1/3. On 1/4 section, it's just a drum but you're following the vocals

edit : oh well, it 00:00:838 - 05:00:988 -

the break that not mapped is from 00:14:408 - until 00:17:766 - that feels annoying for me

i would add more .-. the ending of this map is quite silly when the music finished on 05:00:596 - and monstrata ends the spinner on 05:00:988 - like somehow it's allowed at all for extending the drain time at all.

.-.

don't know if its been mentioned before but 00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - is one of the worst patterns you can introduce here, its such an ugly motion and probably impossible to snap to, causing it to have no intensity, which the song calls for. its also pretty annoying to read for no reason

00:41:339 (5) - this slider also feels way too out of place, very annoying to play after hitting the jumps

Pacemaker wrote:

jawns wrote:

Why does a map have to be beautiful for it to be good?

We are approaching the bottom aren't we. The impact's gonna hurt

Not really. A map really doesn't have to be "beautiful" to be good.

Enkidu wrote:

Not really. A map really doesn't have to be "beautiful" to be good.

Well, as I take it, in the context of the post he quoted, he meant maps having any aesthetic value, not being outright beautiful. And to allow ranked maps be "ugly because the song is ugly" sounds like edgy horseshit to me

well i think this map is decent to be reanked.
but for real there will be no players to actually play this (or even pass)

Pacemaker wrote:

Enkidu wrote:

Not really. A map really doesn't have to be "beautiful" to be good.

Well, as I take it, in the context of the post he quoted, he meant maps having any aesthetic value, not being outright beautiful. And to allow ranked maps be "ugly because the song is ugly" sounds like edgy horseshit to me

Again, not really. The point of mapping is to map a song the way you /feel/ it should be mapped. If someone feels like a map should be ugly, they should map it to look ugly.

Pacemaker wrote:

fieryrage wrote:

Hey, guys, user rating means literally nothing because half of the time it ends up in a circlejerk instead of showcasing the actual map quality.

just saying

Wtf does that even mean. Collectively hating/liking something does not equal circlejerking. Even good mappers get shit ratings when they fuck up

What it means? It just means that this beatmap was specifically targeted by the osu reddit community to downvote it, if you dont see that, then you're a sad person with low intellect, which you are anyways when I look at your poor attempts to "burn" people. Idk this map, don't really care either but hating on something just because it gets qualified is just stupid. I don't go around and tell people to stop eating tomatoes just because I don't like them.

What's so damn hard in avoiding something you don't like? Your opinion isnt superior to anyone else's so don't act like you're some godsent messias.