If this gets qualified, just brace yourself for the massive shitstorm you'll be getting..
that or people would love it :p
that or people would love it :p
Azer wrote:
I agree, I'm biased towards modern era mapping and I do dislike older style mapping but the way I see it, modern mapping exists today because it fixed flaws older styles had (one of the biggest ones is lack on emphasis on individual notes because of distance snapping), it's moving forward and as a modern era player/mapper I'm really on the other side of the coin, I think older maps are boring (I'm speaking very generally here, there's been tons of amazing maps that are still very fun to play) and modern maps focus on distance changes ("spacing is optional") because they emphasize individual notes in the song, which makes you feel like you are playing the song and not playing a map of the song, if that makes sense. In the end it's just my opinion and I understand why you disagree with me.
Raiden wrote:
Good luck shiro
Shiro*
Thank you for your time. While I appreciate your input (you did point out actual problems), it seems to me you did not try to understand what I was doing (hence the "overmapped" and "remove this" comments). You should try to see where the mapper is going when modding something. Either way, thank you for taking the time to look at this and post feedback. I greatly appreciate it.Ukod wrote:
I quickly checked the timing of this map
00:10:058 (1) - Move one blue tick to the left hmm you're right, done
00:10:510 (2) - Remove this fuck no, it goes with the flute. I'll just flat out ignore the "remove this" comments.
00:37:213 (4,5,6,7,1) - Should be timed like this for all these: the big stringed instrument is always around 9/16 late. Trying to time to it would be delusional. I'll ignore further comments for it.
00:43:161 (13,14,15,16,17) - Time like this I could, but considering the pattern, it would be properly unreadable. I'll keep the 5-note stream, which is more intuitive and strangely more fitting here.
00:44:971 (1) - I just assumed you wanted to time the drums, in which case the timing is in 1/8 and 1/12
00:47:298 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - Completely overmapped or is it ? it goes with the trill the flute goes for.
00:54:798 (1,2,3) - Time it like this That's unplayable.
01:01:652 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Completely overmapped Listen to the guitar.
01:24:540 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - Overmapped I'll just ignore these as well.
01:59:971 (4,5,6,7,1) - I found this timing it is both wrong and unfitting
02:49:433 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - I think single slider fit vibrations like those better than streams I don't. The stream complements the slider well and represents the weird sound a lot better than a slider ever would.
03:06:113 (6,8,10) - Remove them and map the 1/2 as jumps Er, no. Did you miss the buildup with the patterns before ?
03:10:057 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - is 1/3 in the song
03:12:126 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - ^
03:14:195 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - ^
03:16:781 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - ^
03:17:815 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - ^
All changed, good catch
03:18:396 (10) - Remove this
03:25:057 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - is 1/3 in the song what ? no
Since I'm not a mapper I don't know if any of that is unrankable, feel free to ignore
Yuii- wrote:
Hellaaaw~
You asked me to mod this... 4 months ago.
Here I am.
Map's clear. Not any general issues need to be address other than the typical "Toggle Widescreen Support and Letterbox off".
Okay, so we both know how much effort you put onto this and I am not the best modder to analyze this beatmap, but I will try it because why not. Before you start reading this modding, I want to tell you how I will mod this: based on every pattern, transition and angle, that may affect playability or reading very hard up to the point of being impossible to get an FC. Basically, before saying something, trying to understand what was your thinking while you were placing every single object, let's try it.Thanks for the mod.
- The combos in the beginning of the map are random, let me tell you why. Up to 00:06:049 - everything seems fine, but then comes the problem. 00:06:049 (1,2,3) - is a 1/4 pattern, a'ight? Although, the distance from (2,3) is similar to 00:10:510 (3,4) - and they do have the same combo as well. Thing is, there's no way of detecting any of these patterns with such a low spacing when the 1/2, 1/4 or even the 1/6 (on 00:07:536 (3,4) - ) have the same combo. How can anyone know that 00:12:644 (4,1,2,3,4) - is not 1/4? Huh, blame Loctav for this. Basically, the comboing is not based on musical phrases as I usually do, but based on groups of notes, separated by silences. That's not actually proper comboing, but in this case, it's the best I could do without having longass combos.
- 00:49:884 (7,8) - Quite a big and unnecessary jump, in my opinion. What about moving (7) somewhere close to 00:49:109 (2) - ? Nope, the jumps emphasizes the switch from guitar to the weird big stringed instrument. This is extremely important for 00:50:272 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - to be more intuitive, as it follows the same instrument.
- 01:07:988 (8) - I wouldn't have mapped this considering there's an extended sound from 01:07:729 (7) - , there's literally nothing to make clickable on (8), so maybe extending or adding a repeater to (7) wouldn't be a bad idea at all. There's a drum hit, which are all important. Also, for the sake of the consistency in rhythms, I need this white tick clicked.
- 01:11:479 (6,8) - Have you thought on curving these a bit? Sometimes curved sliders give players an intuitive moment in which they can imagine where the following object is going to be, especially when you are not placing that object below the previous slider, as said, you are placing 01:11:350 (5,7) - from above (6,8)'s head. I wanted to curve them and forgot, thanks
- 01:12:514 (4,5) - You're spacing this pattern gradually but suddenly woop, distance gets decreased. Intentional? Also, you want to take a look at 01:37:341 (10,11) - since (5) and (11) have a similar connotation rhythm-wise, and whilst one is being very emphasised, the other is being overshadowed. Both are intentional. In the first pattern 01:12:255 (2,3,4,5) - the kick sample on 01:12:643 (5) - makes it barely audible in the song, which makes it a good break point, and that's why the distance is decreased: it doesn't emphasize 01:12:643 (5) - at all and allows for the break with the stack. On the other hand, 01:37:212 (9,10,11) - is introduced by a vocal line that goes higher in pitch, so 01:37:212 (9,10,11) - is more emphasized than the other pattern and that's why I used jumps for one and not the other.
- 01:25:315 (3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - I don't know what do you think about these, but from my point of view, all these angles are quite sharp. Map is built around sharp angles and back and forth patterns.
- 01:33:333 (12,1) - I thought you were stacking notes after pauses hmm good points ill change this a bit
- 01:43:936 (3,4) - Oh, love these. Good flow over here, well done! of course it's good flow, it's a Shiro map 8)
- 01:55:703 (4,5,1) - Quite a bad transition, imho. What about http://puu.sh/lgoqx/ffd645aa87.jpg ? The flow reset on 01:56:091 (1) - is intended to isolate the new sentence in the vocals and reset the flow at that point. It also introduces the angle 01:56:091 (1,2,3,4) - use to make 01:57:126 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - more intuitive.
- Time to compare, yaaaay! 02:10:574 (1,2) - 1/1 spacing not stacked; 02:10:833 (2,3) - 1/1 spacing stacked; 02:11:867 (2,3) - 1/1 spacing not stacked. You are evil, Shiro :D
- You know which is the difference between 02:25:057 (1,2) - and 02:25:445 (3,4) - when you play it? There's no difference, and regarding the high BPM this map has, maybe placing 02:25:703 (4) - on x208 y240 would play way more better. changed, but not your way
- 02:43:678 (7,1) - Maybe you can combine them into one object, I can't literally hear anything on (1)'s head at all. ah, my rhythm was wrong
- Time to compare... again, wiiiiii! 03:09:022 (3,1) - there's a stack over here; but there's no stack on 03:11:091 (3,1) - 03:13:160 (3,1) - . How evil can you be? That is actually a mistake on my end - it's fixed
- 03:58:160 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4) - I had a lot of troubles when playing this part. There's no clear path between each object, you mapped them the same way when they play way too different. That's something to take note of. Y'know, when you place a stack on the same section that other stack, you gotta make them more or less feel the similar way, if you are inconsistent with all your patterns, playing them will hurt a lot and it will be unfun and counter-intuitive to the player. okay, changed this
- 04:20:660 (3,4) - Want to hear the reason behind these not being stacked with 04:20:402 (1,2) - <3. Just myself being too picky, sorry sorry! huh, original pattern was way different and i forgot to change them
- 04:20:919 (1) - You know what would be AMAZING? Finish it on 04:22:772 - (1/6) because there's a super loud beat over there! Maybe you could even add a hitsound if you feel confident enough. ok but no hitsound
- 04:28:807 (6,7,8) - Awww, linear flow? Come on, give these objects something... a pattern, make a triangle, make something more funny. ok
- 04:39:281 (3) - I'm so sorry for this... curve it, curve it, Shiro! ok
- 04:55:129 (3) - Random whistle maybe? There's literally nothing on this circle, no need to hitsound it. oups, yes
- 04:56:342 (4,5) - I can't tell how off (4)'s tail and (5)'s head are, but... they are not timed correctly, to my ears! Maybe 20~ms off? fixed
---------------
Sorry for not explaining myself very good on some points, you may find some things quite hard to understand maybe on how I mod. I'm a bit nervous because I have my job interview in 1 hour and hell... soooo nervous. Good luck to both of us!
Peace, Shiro!
Thanks for the mod!Kroytz wrote:
00:01:265 (1) - I wanna ask why this exists. Triple starting 00:01:394 - sounds more reasonable though I know it doesn't accomplish what you were trying to do, though, what you were trying to do also doesn't sound fitting so idk Well, the problem here is the flute player is completely off (like, he should have used a metronome lol) and timing his notes properly is near impossible, so I had to compromise and choose intuitive rhythms that the flute player was trying to go for. On top of that, the flute doesn't have a clear start, so it's very difficult to time this properly. I think what I did is the closest I can get to a compromise between fittingness and playability. A triple would sound a bit weird considering I hear held notes for the flute, hence the sliders!
00:10:510 (3) - I also wanna ask what inspired you to create this thing of all shapes. Perhaps we interpret the song different but this is some 2010 stuff as are the rest of the slider in this short 10 second intro I honestly have no idea. I was just messing around creating random sliders, and I eventually found this shape. My idea was that the circle part follows the crescendo and the pitch going higher, while the wave part follows the held note. Overall the slider looks weird but it isn't a problem... right ? ;w;
00:23:101 (5) - NC for read okay
00:36:566 (1) - This spacing is misleading due to how you played out that last sequence. I'd rather see it elsewhere but I doubt you'd want to remap parts for this. This is just a technical thing. For consistency with the rest of the intro, I turned this into a triple.
00:38:763 (4) - Same goes here. I'd rather leave the former downward structure you did with (2) and the former (3) and space this out more to give more emphasis in that 1/2 pause. okay
00:41:351 (6,1) - You could easily make a perfect square with these to the previous notes. done
00:44:971 (1) - Idk bout this spacing. Why didn't you space this further? As the song goes to a complete halt at this point, spacing is irrelevant. Anywhere I could place the object would be an anti-jump, and the player has more than enough time to dance around with the cursor if they want to. I placed this to conform to my idea of symmetry for the next patterns, so it's on the vertical axis, and the angle of the slider mimicks the angles before (like 00:44:066 (4) - ) to still link the patterns together.
00:49:497 (5) - the dominant beat is on the white tick. You could also add a note here 00:49:820 - as a triple. But the sliders starting on the red tick feel awkward just cuz you're not hitting the dominant beat but playing it out for some pattern thingy in the next section. I'm sure there's a better way to go about this. I'm following the weird big stringed instrument here, and what I hear is what's being clicked. It's a new instrument in the chord and it's the most interesting one to follow.
00:49:497 (5,8) - Y'see how 5 and 8 go upwards, why not continue that with 00:50:919 (4,6) - cuz otherwise it looks cluttered. ah, good catch, they originally did but after I modified the pattern, I forgot to re-place those objects
01:12:902 (1) - could anti-jump this I prefer the stack here, because the vocals, which I'm following, come to a complete halt. I don't think an anti-jump would work here because the whole song has a short break here, so I thought the map should too.
01:20:919 (1) - I thought this section was pretty neat but why not space 01:23:893 (1) - higher up like the other sliders you did Huh, this is the first slider of the section, and the other objects gradually move to the top right. I can't place them any further up in the corner.
01:33:591 (1) - This could also function well as anti-jump but I suppose it's a matter of style here. This goes for all the other little 1/2 pause thingies you did Well, my idea was to go for a total stop as I said, so I don't want to change those, not having stacks wouldn't fit with what I was trying to do.
02:02:169 (4,1,2) - spacing is quite high here to fit a pattern where the music doesn't feel so threatening. Her vocals go deep and slow I wanted this to link the two kiai together, so I chose high spacing but easy jumps to make this part feel different (with the easy jumps and lots of sliders) but without completely breaking the energetic atmosphere I created with the first kiai.
02:10:833 (2) - if this went the other way where it end where you had 02:10:186 (3) - I think it'd be better but the spacing gets closer and this pause doesn't feel quite right when the DS is this low. Doesn't make for a good buildup imo. changed
02:21:953 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - jesus, now I know why the SR is so high. This would be good if there was a much more proper buildup into this rather than throwing this so suddenly at the players. I'd suggest moving these sliders 02:19:884 (1,2,3,4) - around the playfield more so that those jumps may work a little better because the slider leniancy right now makes those sliders easy to hit and then you get fukd in the ass by airman whirlwinds. Good point. Changed.
02:27:643 (6) - could space elsewhere for more emphasis and have the other follow suit ah, this is a pattern that plays with the sliders and circles. The sliders are getting closer while the circles get further apart from one another. It forms a contradicting buildup that goes well with the contrast between the held vocal and the spamming drum.
03:09:410 (1) - maybe space this more to the corner as well I augmented the spacing, not quite to the corner though
03:25:057 (1) - yo, this stream could be much more original lol. It's fitting I suppose and that's enough of an argument to keep it but this could easily be more exciting originally was exciting, players complained T_T
03:46:781 (1) - this some rabbit shet lol idk what to say can I at least be credited for my own patterns ? T_T
04:00:229 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this could probably be more intense with airman shit ah this is a recurring pattern in the difficulty, it gives it a nice structure and the player will be very happy to see patterns they've played before I think
04:06:178 (5,6) - (5) could be center upward slider and NC on 6 for a different pattern cuz yknow, downbeats n stuff I'll have to deny that, the comboing follows the phrases in the vocals, and the slider positions are consistent with the first kiai (with the symmetry)
04:07:471 (6) - same here with the NC stuff I changed that one
04:15:488 (7) - I think anti-jumping these parts would be cool, like if they went more outward to the top left corner as a means to emphasize the distance from the note to the streams. idk i like it they already do !
04:20:402 (1,2,3,4) - y not continue pattern downwards? done, also increased distance from last jumps
04:20:919 (1) - could just use a long slider and then follow into all the rekt beats you murdered from 04:21:695 - I'm not a big fan of super long sliders, I'd rather keep the spinner here >.<
04:27:643 (1) - slider? This is an isolated note because to me the song really resumes at 04:27:902 (2) - so this one shouldn't be emphasized or moved
04:44:712 (1) - this part here could be more intense too rather than overlapping your previous notes changed
04:45:617 (4) - this should get the most emphasis imo it does! kinda
05:01:926 (1) - you could create a jump thing like http://puu.sh/lgKap/c6a1b270d9.jpg i think this fits better than killing the beats like you did with that spinner :/// done
Kroytz wrote:
hype hype hype
And you didn't hear the intro was completely off while mapping it? By something like 60ms at times? Come on now..Shiro wrote:
Lucky for me, I am a timing expert, so I'll take a look at it.
I mostly ignored it because it's based on a flute and timing flutes is horrible because unlike drum hits they don't have a strong start. I knew it was approximative but didn't think it would be a problem. Every testplayer I've seen has hit the intro correctly, so I just didn't bother re-timing the map. Now I will though.GoldenWolf wrote:
And you didn't hear the intro was completely off while mapping it? By something like 60ms at times? Come on now..Shiro wrote:
Lucky for me, I am a timing expert, so I'll take a look at it.