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Wagakki Band - Tengaku

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Loctav

Azer wrote:

Final Verdict: I think this map is fundamentally flawed and here's why. You are using 2012-2013 era mapping concepts (distance snap, aesthetic patterns with no consideration for flow, trying too hard to fit blankets anywhere) that worked on 5 star maps on a 7 star map, it doesn't really work. Players who don't really pay attention to how mapping works won't mind this at all, it's fun to them and it doesn't have obvious rhythm flaws or anything like that, but this mapping style simply doesn't work for a map this hard, it's very outdated and that becomes obvious to any experienced mapper who decides to thoroughly look into it. Another big problem is very inconsistent use of slider shapes, sliders should look similar and when they have slightly different angles every time it has a huge impact on the quality of the map. Simply put I don't think this is good enough quality to go anywhere yet, there's a lot of work to do here and hopefully you can cooperate with modern mappers to understand where you did good and where you did wrong. Sorry to be so negative but I care about the quality of hard maps a lot and I want the community to produce the best quality material possible to inspire other mappers to dabble into hard mapping so we can have more good quality extras and less ar10 jumps lol xd bullshit.
I beg to differ here. The concept of using very polished 2012-2013 styled patterns does not go against the flow. As far as I observed the patterns, they do actually flow and use a consistent way of movement and angle changes. The mapping style works very well on such scope of difficulty. An inconsistent usage of slider shapes is a non-issue, in fact, they are more consistently used than in most average generic Extras.
I think your verdict mostly resolves around that you simply do not prefer the old-styled way of mapping. In my opinion, it does in fact work but is not following the current boring way of mapping things. It is following old conventions while trying to maintain a reasonable level of fast paced patterning. It is not overpatterned, AR10 works perfectly fine, it is not overmapped and every single approach to construct a section has a concept behind it that is throughoutly executed.
When I asked you to revise this beatmap, I hoped that you would point up flaws in the actual existent patterns and what are not working out in the shape and intention they were mapped in. Instead, you decided to call out the style itself not working as hard map. This is plain wrong.
I wholeheartly disagree of what you said in your final verdict on 95% of the levels you brought up. Every argument is simply resolving around this map not following the so called "modern mapping", which actually is just a derivation of "triangles everywhere, spacing is optional".
The usage of direction changes, consistent repeats, consistent angle changes, consistent cursor movement and expectable patterning works out perfectly fine here.
Azer
I agree, I'm biased towards modern era mapping and I do dislike older style mapping but the way I see it, modern mapping exists today because it fixed flaws older styles had (one of the biggest ones is lack on emphasis on individual notes because of distance snapping), it's moving forward and as a modern era player/mapper I'm really on the other side of the coin, I think older maps are boring (I'm speaking very generally here, there's been tons of amazing maps that are still very fun to play) and modern maps focus on distance changes ("spacing is optional") because they emphasize individual notes in the song, which makes you feel like you are playing the song and not playing a map of the song, if that makes sense. In the end it's just my opinion and I understand why you disagree with me.
Jenny
The biggest issues I found with the map are that the overlaps feel too harsh for comfort (would prefer a 5-15° degree tilting of the hyper-overlapping sliders each time to make it more clear, and "fanning out" instead of being a static repetition) and that some section finishing patterns weren't accentuated enough (i.e. a square that plays a lot more like a circular pattern due to the fact that there already were 3 repetitions of three out of the four circles in it before, hence getting the player into a very loopy habit at that point as opposed to snapping); for stuff like that, a zig-zag back and forth pattern would fit better to accentaute each circle - I brought that up with Shiro in PM and we can probably figure something out regarding those.

I don't think the style is an issue - yeah, the map feels a bit clunky to me, but the focus was clearly put on harsh angling, as opposed to balancing visuals, and while I myself don't like that all too much, it's not like it makes the map undeserving of attention; it's just one negative point, not a deal breaker.


Other things I found to be questionable (but not outright wrong) were the use of slider leniency in some parts and 100% overlapping pattern repetition (4/1 in length each, so the impact of full overlap is negligible as opposed to the aforementioned 3/2 repetitions (-> overlaps)). The only thing that really straight-up felt wrong to me was one part where there were a lot of repeating and growing triangles, when the song was going in repeating pairs of 2 - anything else is debatable, and while it can be more balanced out and improved upon, I wouldn't go as far as to say the map is either awful, or downright badly done; it's not perfect, but it's definitely okay.


tl;dr there are things in this map I don't enjoy, but there are very few that are absolutely or outright wrong - while it's not something I personally enjoy, I can see the thought put into most things, and while I believe it could be polished a fair bit, I do not think this is a bad map; it does what it wants to, and while it doesn't reach far beyond that, it does accomplish its goal, and that is a lot more than I can say about many other, because most maps frankly do not even know what their identity is, even these days.
Azer
yeah that's how I feel about it too, it's clunky. It's a nice way to put it. I was a bit harsh in my mod.
MillhioreF
May as well give this a quick mod of my own (quick as in I'm only pointing stuff out that I see while playing the map instead of looking at it in edit). I'm probably pointing out some stuff that's been noted in other mods, but in that case it can just be taken as further encouragement to do something about said patterns.

First off, difficulty name should be "Uncompressed Fury of a Raging Japanese God". 'a' and 'an' aren't capitalized even in camel case.

00:38:247 (4,5,6,7) - Reading the (7) at the end of this pattern is really awkward because of the sudden switch to 1/1. I'd probably bunch up (4,5,6) more personally, or turn (6,7) into a slider.
00:50:272 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - This is really damn hard to read because the sliders are basically overlapping. AR10 doesn't give you a significant enough amount of time to notice that tiny path change in each consecutive slider on a sightread - even if the player assumes everything in the slider stack is a slider because of the repeating stuff here, they're going to think (10) is a slider when really it's a circle, and that just messes everything up. Even just spreading out each one by an additional grid4 or two helps a whole lot here.
00:58:031 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - Same as above. I did hit this one better, but that's probably because I was expecting it this time.
01:09:022 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - Just pointing this out because I think it does what you were aiming for in the above two patterns well without being frustrating to read. More like this, please. :D
01:12:126 (8,9,10,11,12) - This flows absolutely terribly IMO. (8,9,10) leave the player's hand going at a really awkward angle for it to then snap into a much sharper triangle.
01:25:057 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - More condensed sliders that I don't really like. It feels like you have to memorize how many there are.
02:00:229 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - More of the same, but I feel it's even less readable because of the larger distance making your eyes snap back and forth.
02:01:781 (9,10,11,12) - This is worth special mention too. I can't read it on any AR at all because the hitbursts from the previous notes completely censor out the next notes from my peripheral vision; obviously this isn't a problem if you have invisible 300s, but it's impolite to not map for the default skin. There are several places throughout the map like this that are slightly questionable, but this is the only one that I had issues with on AR9 due to the extreme spacing.
02:21:695 (7,8,9,10,11,12) - Suddenly changing direction like this is pretty horrible for flow, it can work but I'd recommend lowering the distance between (7,9,11) and (8,10,12) slightly to give the player warning that there's a new direction. Example of what I mean (though the actual note placements could probably be improved further)
02:46:522 (6,7,8,9) - Another one of these, more spacing please.
03:04:755 (2,3,4,5,6) - This one actually plays okay! It only repeats once, and there isn't a circle immediately stacked under the sliders. Nice.
03:19:238 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - I'd move the stacked notes slightly off the sliderheads here, it's probably okay as is though.
03:23:505 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - This pattern works great because it actually gives you time to parse each individual slider in the stack, and they're separated enough that you can tell (12) isn't a slider.
03:31:135 (8) - Any reason this is much lower than the other notes in the pattern?
03:55:833 (4,1,2,3,4) - Aside from readability issues (I thought that last 4 was a slider again) I'm not sure this is even rankable. The first (4) and (2) are almost perfectly stacked in different directions, and (2) appears before (4) has finished fading.
04:23:893 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,1) - Nothing actually wrong with this part, but just going back and forth 5 times is a bit boring.

That's about it, I think! I really don't think the map is fundamentally flawed, it's mostly just that one repeating slider-circle-slider-circle pattern you use a bunch that's nigh impossible to sightread properly. I've played this map 3 times (ar10, then ar9, then ar9.5) and still uphold most of these for all three. It's hard as balls, but really that's okay.
Topic Starter
Shiro

Azer wrote:

Hi Shiro, I've been requested to extensively mod this so I'll try my best to help! I want you to know I'm very passionate about the quality of extras so that means I'll be overly critical in my mod. Don't be afraid to deny some points.

  1. You've got 4 unsnapped objects in AIMod o good catch
  2. tengaku230.mp3 is not being used, right? removed, I'm not sure I even remember what it is
  3. So this is really just an opinion, but I think overall your map doesn't play as good as it could because you focused on aesthetics and patterns more than playability and flow. As mappers start to create more and more hard maps we're starting to notice that the ones who play the best are the ones who focus on flow and emphasize individual objects instead of creating flipped patterns and shapes. It's far too late to change this, but I thought I'd let you know for your next project. I didn't. Flow and playability have always been my primary concerns. The patterns simply complement the playability.
  4. 00:12:644 (4,5,6) - I understand the intention is to map to the vibrations of the instrument but imo this is overmapping Changed for a single slider
  5. imo, the sv during the entire into is too high, it makes it awkward to play. I recommend to half it down, really. I also think all the ridiculous slider shapes are not needed (and certainly won't be if you lower the SV) as they don't really emphasize anything and honestly don't look as good as simple sliders would. I'll keep the long sliders for now, but if this kind of feedback comes back I'll try to find an alternative.
  6. 00:32:040 (5) - move this in a direction that changes flow, like you did with the previous slider. This is awkward to play because you are going in the same direction but have to stop in the middle to hit (4) done
  7. 00:32:687 (5,6,7) - makes this part more confusing that it needs to be, equal spacing between all three objects but different rhythm. Put 6 closer to the stream and 7 higher up to also add a higher distance to the next object fixed
  8. 00:38:247 (4) - move to x:226 y:138 - it creates better emphasis by letting 3 and 6 have big jumps. Also fits aesthetically in a line with the previous stack and the sliderend of 00:39:022 (8) - done
  9. 00:40:704 (1) - I think this is mapped to the wrong rhythm, the flute is really hard to predict and challenging to sightread. Mapping to the drums would be a better option imo (4 1/3 notes starting from 00:40:832 - ) like you did at 00:44:971 (1) - changed for a single circle, follow that... harp-like instrument (I have no idea how it's called)
  10. 00:46:263 (5) - no reason for this to be a slider I hear a kick at 00:46:328 - and the short slider also works well with the brutal sound imo, I'll keep it
  11. 00:50:531 (5,6,7,8,9,10) - I don't see the reason to repeat this pattern over and over, there's not such thing in the song and there's potential for something so much better here, you've got some big beats to emphasize and this really doesn't do them justice. I don't see what else I could do. I'm focusing on the harp-like instrument, again
  12. 00:52:341 (3,4,5) - same point as earlier, 3 objects in the same direction with very different spacing makes for awkward gameplay changed
  13. 00:54:798 (1,2,3,4,5) - why a 5 note stream? (3) should be replaced by a slider as there are no strong notes in the song at 4 and 5 ok
  14. 00:59:324 (8) - same as earlier, although now I see what you tried to map it to. It makes sense but you repeated the pattern for too long, the right rhythm to follow would be to add a circle before (8), the repeating noise you mapped on 2, 4 and 6 is on the white tick and not where 8 is currently placed changed
  15. 01:01:134 (5) - this finish noise is really out of place. Remove it idk why there is a finish here at all o.O
  16. 01:01:652 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - really bad looking stream shape, this is no longer 2010 Shiro :P Changed
  17. 01:12:126 (8,9,10,11,12) - according to the general pace this section is going at, this jump is really overdone, it would be better to play if the flow was crossflow and not linear http://i.imgur.com/tc3ZE4q.png okay
  18. 01:26:091 (7,8) - the repeating noise you mapped on 2, 4 and 6 is on the white tick and not where 8 is currently placed I'm focusing on the big stringed instrument (apparently it's called a koto)
  19. 01:39:928 (11) - looks bad placed where it is, move up maybe? not sure how this looks bad at all o.O
  20. 01:42:772 (4,5) - not a fan of that slidershape, I would try to make them more consistent with the shapes you mapped in the rest of this section good point
  21. 02:31:782 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18) - this plays fine but it's boring, you could change direction/angle every time the singer changes tone?(7, 11, 15, 18) like 04:18:850 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - did something i hope it works
  22. 02:36:307 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - please no copypaste, at least flip them in some way they are flipped ;w;
  23. 02:39:281 - map something here, awkward break in gameplay just added a slider but the break in gameplay is intentional
  24. entire section from 02:52:212 - to 03:00:229 - I don't like this at all, distance snap with patterns that honestly don't look that good, this is beginner mapper produce, you're an experienced mapper and this section feels lazy/rushed, it's just really low quality. This is a slow section so I'ml giving the player a chance to readjust their aim and all, since there are no breaks in the map
  25. 03:16:781 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - overmapping, imo. This isn't overmapped, you can't hear the flute going 1/4 here ?
  26. 03:17:815 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - please fix this stream shape, it doesn't look good, it's not symmetrical or anything, the angle change is different everytime for no reason, you can do better.
  27. 03:25:057 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - same thing. Also the end looks really bad 03:26:996 (15,16,1) -
    For both: I'll stick to simple shapes
  28. 03:34:238 (5) - why not use the same slider shape as the previous sliders to be consistent? done
  29. 04:03:591 (7,8,9) - looks horrible, please fix shape fixed
  30. 04:29:971 (5,1) - why are these so close to eachother? fixed
<wall of text> tl;dr: this map is shit *sigh*
Thanks for your time and sorry I made this and you had to check it.
Faust
Go go go.
Topic Starter
Shiro

MillhioreF wrote:

May as well give this a quick mod of my own (quick as in I'm only pointing stuff out that I see while playing the map instead of looking at it in edit). I'm probably pointing out some stuff that's been noted in other mods, but in that case it can just be taken as further encouragement to do something about said patterns.

First off, difficulty name should be "Uncompressed Fury of a Raging Japanese God". 'a' and 'an' aren't capitalized even in camel case. good point, I forgot to change it >.<

00:38:247 (4,5,6,7) - Reading the (7) at the end of this pattern is really awkward because of the sudden switch to 1/1. I'd probably bunch up (4,5,6) more personally, or turn (6,7) into a slider. Considering the pattern changed into a less awkward thing I assume no change is needed ?
00:50:272 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - This is really damn hard to read because the sliders are basically overlapping. AR10 doesn't give you a significant enough amount of time to notice that tiny path change in each consecutive slider on a sightread - even if the player assumes everything in the slider stack is a slider because of the repeating stuff here, they're going to think (10) is a slider when really it's a circle, and that just messes everything up. Even just spreading out each one by an additional grid4 or two helps a whole lot here. made them fan out as per Jenny's suggestion
00:58:031 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - Same as above. I did hit this one better, but that's probably because I was expecting it this time. changed too
01:09:022 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - Just pointing this out because I think it does what you were aiming for in the above two patterns well without being frustrating to read. More like this, please. :D :3
01:12:126 (8,9,10,11,12) - This flows absolutely terribly IMO. (8,9,10) leave the player's hand going at a really awkward angle for it to then snap into a much sharper triangle. changed as per Azer's suggestion
01:25:057 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - More condensed sliders that I don't really like. It feels like you have to memorize how many there are. made them fan out as per Jenny's suggestion
02:00:229 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - More of the same, but I feel it's even less readable because of the larger distance making your eyes snap back and forth. fanned out too, but the funny thing about this pattern is it plays as if the slider were circles, which makes it easier to hit despite the greater distance!
02:01:781 (9,10,11,12) - This is worth special mention too. I can't read it on any AR at all because the hitbursts from the previous notes completely censor out the next notes from my peripheral vision; obviously this isn't a problem if you have invisible 300s, but it's impolite to not map for the default skin. There are several places throughout the map like this that are slightly questionable, but this is the only one that I had issues with on AR9 due to the extreme spacing. I changed the pattern a bit, but overall it stayed the same. I honestly am not too sure about these because they are rather unintuitive and insanely hard to hit, but I find it to be a fun gimmick and it definitely brings something to the map, so I kept them for now
02:21:695 (7,8,9,10,11,12) - Suddenly changing direction like this is pretty horrible for flow, it can work but I'd recommend lowering the distance between (7,9,11) and (8,10,12) slightly to give the player warning that there's a new direction. Example of what I mean (though the actual note placements could probably be improved further) I will respectfully disagree with that. Originally, the reverse didn't happen and this played rather horribly. I find the reverse in direction to make this easier to hit and to play overall better. This is one of my favourite patterns in the map, too, so I'm rather reluctant to change it >.<
02:46:522 (6,7,8,9) - Another one of these, more spacing please. fanned out
03:04:755 (2,3,4,5,6) - This one actually plays okay! It only repeats once, and there isn't a circle immediately stacked under the sliders. Nice. :3
03:19:238 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - I'd move the stacked notes slightly off the sliderheads here, it's probably okay as is though. I remapped this part so I'm not sure if this still applies
03:23:505 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - This pattern works great because it actually gives you time to parse each individual slider in the stack, and they're separated enough that you can tell (12) isn't a slider. :3
03:31:135 (8) - Any reason this is much lower than the other notes in the pattern? I am really bad at copypasting
03:55:833 (4,1,2,3,4) - Aside from readability issues (I thought that last 4 was a slider again) I'm not sure this is even rankable. The first (4) and (2) are almost perfectly stacked in different directions, and (2) appears before (4) has finished fading. spread them out for readability purposes
04:23:893 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,1) - Nothing actually wrong with this part, but just going back and forth 5 times is a bit boring. self-changed that a while ago

That's about it, I think! I really don't think the map is fundamentally flawed, it's mostly just that one repeating slider-circle-slider-circle pattern you use a bunch that's nigh impossible to sightread properly. I've played this map 3 times (ar10, then ar9, then ar9.5) and still uphold most of these for all three. It's hard as balls, but really that's okay.
Thank you for your time.
I feel a bit upset that the centre gimmick of the map is the pattern you pointed out multiple times as being wrong. I ended up changing them, but I feel like the map isn't exactly how I wanted them to be. It's a bit disheartening.
Sonnyc
Just a random comment passing by.
  1. 00:37:989 (3,4,5,6,7) - Not sure if it's because I lack playing skills, but this placement was a little questionable regarding the intuitive reading.
  2. 01:56:091 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1) - Nice pattern.
Nice one here, especially for the rotation patterns.
Silverboxer
I just wanted to mention that the changes to the map so far have all been positive, but if people keep telling Shiro to make everything more readable and the jumps less back and forth or the patterns to not repeat so much, then that's changing a lot of the map's gimmicks. I really think the patterns are nice the way they are. Good luck getting this ranked Shiro :D
Topic Starter
Shiro

Sonnyc wrote:

Just a random comment passing by.
  1. 00:37:989 (3,4,5,6,7) - Not sure if it's because I lack playing skills, but this placement was a little questionable regarding the intuitive reading. I'm not too worried about this one, every testplayer got it right after the update (as opposed to before), the large spacing helps make this readable.
  2. 01:56:091 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1) - Nice pattern. thank you !
Nice one here, especially for the rotation patterns. thank you :3

Silverboxer wrote:

I just wanted to mention that the changes to the map so far have all been positive, but if people keep telling Shiro to make everything more readable and the jumps less back and forth or the patterns to not repeat so much, then that's changing a lot of the map's gimmicks. I really think the patterns are nice the way they are. Good luck getting this ranked Shiro :D thanks, i will need it ;w;
I feel like this map has already lost its soul, as the gimmick focus was, to me, the almost 100% overlapping patterns that ended up being removed in favor of less overlappy things. I will try to get this ranked, but alas, it's not exactly the map I made anymore. It's more of a... toned down version.
jesse1412
00:42:902 (14,15) - Feels a little bit confusing, seems like a 1/2 jump. Possibly mess around with newcombos to fix?
00:50:531 (5,6,7,8,9,10) - This pattern in itself is fine. The issue with your overlapping sliders is more so related to here: 00:51:436 (10,11,12) - , What happens is the player gets into a rhythm of following the note slider pattern repeatedly and musically it's hard to recognize a reason for that pattern to change. What you end up getting is a player doing this jump 00:51:307 (9,10) - and expecting a centre-left movement, they in fact are slapped with the complete opposite. You could fix this by moving 00:51:565 (2) - to the right although I think that would ruin what you're aiming for. A secondary option might be to move 00:51:436 (1) - so that it isn't overlapping with the sliders and/or add a newcombo to inform the player that the pattern is changing. I'm going to refer to other places with similar issues with a "%".
00:59:195 (8,9,10) - Just to add to the previous feedback, this pattern works much more smoothly because the player isn't being so harshly punished for following the patterns that your created.
01:11:350 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - %
01:45:359 (11,12) - ctrl G
02:46:393 (5) - I think this should be stacked on 02:46:134 (4) - . At the moment, due to the overuse of overlapping this part is extremely difficult to read (the player is prepared for overlaps in places where overlaps just haven't been placed).
02:46:910 (8,9,10) - %
03:09:410 (1,2,3) - Very ambiguous to the player. Possibly put a NC on 03:09:669 (1) - .
03:11:479 (1,2,3) - ^ Same issue.
03:13:548 (4,5,6) - ^
03:58:160 (1,2) - ^
03:58:160 (1,2) - More strange spacing.
04:18:850 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - Personally can't read the pattern, can't confirm if it's just me or not.
04:40:057 (7,8) - Awkward stacking.
04:41:091 (7,8) - ^
04:42:126 (7,8) - ^
04:43:160 (7,8) - ^

Generally the map feels kinda messy in a lot of places imo. I didn't list some things because I personally think they're just a challenge rather than "awkward" or obnoxiously hard to read. Generally I struggle a lot on this map (A rank is hard) so take my feedback with a pinch of salt.
Topic Starter
Shiro

jesus1412 wrote:

00:42:902 (14,15) - Feels a little bit confusing, seems like a 1/2 jump. Possibly mess around with newcombos to fix? Fixed, but in a more gimmicky way =P
00:50:531 (5,6,7,8,9,10) - This pattern in itself is fine. The issue with your overlapping sliders is more so related to here: 00:51:436 (10,11,12) - , What happens is the player gets into a rhythm of following the note slider pattern repeatedly and musically it's hard to recognize a reason for that pattern to change. What you end up getting is a player doing this jump 00:51:307 (9,10) - and expecting a centre-left movement, they in fact are slapped with the complete opposite. You could fix this by moving 00:51:565 (2) - to the right although I think that would ruin what you're aiming for. A secondary option might be to move 00:51:436 (1) - so that it isn't overlapping with the sliders and/or add a newcombo to inform the player that the pattern is changing. I'm going to refer to other places with similar issues with a "%". did my best to fix this but I don't know if my fix works
00:59:195 (8,9,10) - Just to add to the previous feedback, this pattern works much more smoothly because the player isn't being so harshly punished for following the patterns that your created.
01:11:350 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - % I can't really change this one because of the patterns around it, but I honestly believe it's not that hard to sightread. I understand it's surprising, but I think it's fine.
01:45:359 (11,12) - ctrl G ah good catch
02:46:393 (5) - I think this should be stacked on 02:46:134 (4) - . At the moment, due to the overuse of overlapping this part is extremely difficult to read (the player is prepared for overlaps in places where overlaps just haven't been placed). huh I really don't understand why you want a stack, in terms of gameplay this would break the movement completely D:
02:46:910 (8,9,10) - % fixed the same way
03:09:410 (1,2,3) - Very ambiguous to the player. Possibly put a NC on 03:09:669 (1) - .
03:11:479 (1,2,3) - ^ Same issue.
03:13:548 (4,5,6) - ^
03:58:160 (1,2) - ^
03:58:160 (1,2) - More strange spacing.
For this entire section, I'm keeping what I have because it's purposely difficult to read (not even honestly, it just makes sure the playuer is reading and not throwing their cursor around hoping to hit). The idea behind this is rather complex but in short, the contrast between the slow 1/1 and big 1/2 jumps with the same objects provides great emphasis on the stringed instrument.
04:18:850 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - Personally can't read the pattern, can't confirm if it's just me or not. I've seen numerous people able to read it perfectly (me included), but I can see how it can be hard to read. If more point it out, I'll try to find a new one.
04:40:057 (7,8) - Awkward stacking.
04:41:091 (7,8) - ^
04:42:126 (7,8) - ^
04:43:160 (7,8) - ^
All of them follow the structure.

Generally the map feels kinda messy in a lot of places imo. I didn't list some things because I personally think they're just a challenge rather than "awkward" or obnoxiously hard to read. Generally I struggle a lot on this map (A rank is hard) so take my feedback with a pinch of salt.
Thank you for taking the time to look at this despite not liking it. I'm not sure what you mean with "messy" honestly, but it seems to be something that comes back often on my maps in general (messy, clunky, clustered). I don't know where it comes from, considering I space things out D:

EDIT: why is star rating 7.78 now ;____________;
Okoratu
so what is Compressed Fury of a Raging Japanese God like
i mean if the uncompressed matters so much in this case i'd like to know what it's like to compress that xD

edit: blames Faust
Bearizm
same
Len
dude
Topic Starter
Shiro

Fast wrote:

dude
im not a dude i have a dress
Yuzeyun

Okoratu wrote:

so what is Compressed Fury of a Raging Japanese God like
put everything on a 64x64 square
Len
lol k
Monstrata
[UFoaRJG]

  1. Yea intro sliders. I would lower the SV even a bit more. 0.40x or 0.35x. 00:23:701 (8) - This feels really natural. If you can get speeds like that.
  2. 00:03:657 (4) - 00:04:821 (6) - 00:06:049 (8) - I would NC all of them just because long sliders + same combo (and thus same combo color) just looks kinda bad imo. Plus separating each iteration is also rhythmic. (You can do every two if you prefer, but reduced combo would look better).
  3. 00:21:953 (3) - ^NC here would be nice too. and 00:23:701 (8) - . NC spam is fine with slow instrumental sections imo.
  4. 00:41:673 - I think you could map this since you've been following the drums very closely up until now (and with the triplets that follow).
  5. 00:47:298 (8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - This doesn't really sound like 1/4 streams to me xP. I would use some sort of 1/4 or 1/8 repeat slider here instead since the sound is more held than a bunch of taps/clicks.
  6. 00:50:272 (4,6,8) - The overlaps aren't perfect. I think you might have accidentally moved a slider a bit cuz the pattern is a bit off compared to your usual overlaps
  7. 00:57:384 (7,8,9) - It's a sharp triplet + turn that doesn't really emphasize much in the music. I would just improve the flow here, make it less sharp since its creating emphasis that isn't in the music.
  8. 01:03:850 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17) - Complete the parallel pattern?
  9. 01:12:126 (1,2,3,4) - 3,4 are more prominent drums imo. I would give them more spacing than 1>2
  10. 01:33:591 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - This overlap pattern doesn't seem too succcessful imo mainly because 01:34:497 (5) - the slider-end is a very different sound profile compared to the other sliders 01:33:850 (2,8) -.
  11. 01:38:764 (1,2,3) - The negative space in between the sliders isn't even. If you care to fix: 01:39:022 (2) - Ctrl+G, then Rotate by -4 degrees from selection center, then Ctrl+G.
  12. 01:43:936 (3,6,9) - This is kinda hard to read because the whole tail-half of the sliders are overlapped including the slider-edge which makes it extra hard to read. I'm cool with the overlap but can you move them up a bit so the edge is visible so theres better visual cue?
  13. 02:21:953 (9) - I really wish you'd NC this, it would fit really well to halve the combo here to fit the change in the pattern.
  14. 02:39:022 (3) - This kickslider was kinda random lol. I mean, it works, but you use so few kick sliders that i feel just a circle here would have been good enough. If you want to map the blue tick do a triplet maybe. Otherwise i could say like 02:42:384 (5) - Why not do a kickslider here too for the same sound.
  15. 02:42:384 (5) - Gap felt kinda awkward for me. How about just mapping it since you dont have 1/1 gaps elsewhere in this section. One-time occurences like this just feel out of place rather than "different" xP.
  16. 02:48:074 (2,3,4) - You could space these out quite a bit more tbh. Considering the difficulty of the song, 1/4 slider-jumps would fit better than using low DS.
  17. 03:25:057 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) - I wish this stream were a bit more interesting xP. An (imperfect) circular stream just felt a bit lame to me sry lol. The instruments go up and down in scale here, having a stream shape that captures that change would be nice.
  18. 04:03:721 (9) - I would remove the slider and add a circle instead. Maintaining momentum here would be really nice. But when you put a 1/2 repeat players will just click and hold at/near the slider-head. If you add a circle then it gives continuous motion to the players. You have back/forth screen jumps shortly after this pattern so the continued movement would help.
  19. 04:19:367 (5,9) - NC'ing them would definitely help with readability since players can visually identify the pattern change through color.
  20. 04:53:981 (6) - NC would be cool.
I don't really like how you did the NC xP. You can spam NC more often to make your patterns easier to identify. You'll see that one of the many changes that came with modern, 2015 mapping is that mappers tend to spam NC. You see Insanes and Extra's that are ranked where total combo count might rarely even exceed 6 or 7 in Kiai because of NC spam every half-measure even. I don't think this NC spam concept is a 2015 style though, i feel like its more of an adaption from previous mapping styles being difficult to read as mappers began to use more overlaps and harder-to-read patterns. Not all things that were changed between say 2012 to 2015 constitute as part of a new style.
Topic Starter
Shiro

monstrata wrote:

[UFoaRJG]

  1. Yea intro sliders. I would lower the SV even a bit more. 0.40x or 0.35x. 00:23:701 (8) - This feels really natural. If you can get speeds like that. They're already at 0.5 =(
  2. 00:03:657 (4) - 00:04:821 (6) - 00:06:049 (8) - I would NC all of them just because long sliders + same combo (and thus same combo color) just looks kinda bad imo. Plus separating each iteration is also rhythmic. (You can do every two if you prefer, but reduced combo would look better).
  3. 00:21:953 (3) - ^NC here would be nice too. and 00:23:701 (8) - . NC spam is fine with slow instrumental sections imo.
  4. 00:41:673 - I think you could map this since you've been following the drums very closely up until now (and with the triplets that follow). Oh I never noticed this, thanks
  5. 00:47:298 (8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - This doesn't really sound like 1/4 streams to me xP. I would use some sort of 1/4 or 1/8 repeat slider here instead since the sound is more held than a bunch of taps/clicks. The sound is held, but the 1/4 provides an awesome and brutal transition from the slow part into the more lively part of the song.
  6. 00:50:272 (4,6,8) - The overlaps aren't perfect. I think you might have accidentally moved a slider a bit cuz the pattern is a bit off compared to your usual overlaps They are the same slider rotated
  7. 00:57:384 (7,8,9) - It's a sharp triplet + turn that doesn't really emphasize much in the music. I would just improve the flow here, make it less sharp since its creating emphasis that isn't in the music. it actually plays very smoothly but ok
  8. 01:03:850 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17) - Complete the parallel pattern? wasn't easy but done
  9. 01:12:126 (1,2,3,4) - 3,4 are more prominent drums imo. I would give them more spacing than 1>2 good point, changed
  10. 01:33:591 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - This overlap pattern doesn't seem too succcessful imo mainly because 01:34:497 (5) - the slider-end is a very different sound profile compared to the other sliders 01:33:850 (2,8) -. changed
  11. 01:38:764 (1,2,3) - The negative space in between the sliders isn't even. If you care to fix: 01:39:022 (2) - Ctrl+G, then Rotate by -4 degrees from selection center, then Ctrl+G. yes it is =(
  12. 01:43:936 (3,6,9) - This is kinda hard to read because the whole tail-half of the sliders are overlapped including the slider-edge which makes it extra hard to read. I'm cool with the overlap but can you move them up a bit so the edge is visible so theres better visual cue? I will disagree with this one. None of the testplayers had any problems reading this.
  13. 02:21:953 (9) - I really wish you'd NC this, it would fit really well to halve the combo here to fit the change in the pattern.
  14. 02:39:022 (3) - This kickslider was kinda random lol. I mean, it works, but you use so few kick sliders that i feel just a circle here would have been good enough. If you want to map the blue tick do a triplet maybe. Otherwise i could say like 02:42:384 (5) - Why not do a kickslider here too for the same sound. that's not a kickslider, also the first one has a 1/4 slider because of the flute (the second one has no flute)
  15. 02:42:384 (5) - Gap felt kinda awkward for me. How about just mapping it since you dont have 1/1 gaps elsewhere in this section. One-time occurences like this just feel out of place rather than "different" xP. what gap o_O
  16. 02:48:074 (2,3,4) - You could space these out quite a bit more tbh. Considering the difficulty of the song, 1/4 slider-jumps would fit better than using low DS. I want to make the flute stand out here, so the low spacing contrasts with the rest
  17. 03:25:057 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) - I wish this stream were a bit more interesting xP. An (imperfect) circular stream just felt a bit lame to me sry lol. The instruments go up and down in scale here, having a stream shape that captures that change would be nice. That's what I had at first and people complained, now they get the boring easy stream.
  18. 04:03:721 (9) - I would remove the slider and add a circle instead. Maintaining momentum here would be really nice. But when you put a 1/2 repeat players will just click and hold at/near the slider-head. If you add a circle then it gives continuous motion to the players. You have back/forth screen jumps shortly after this pattern so the continued movement would help. k
  19. 04:19:367 (5,9) - NC'ing them would definitely help with readability since players can visually identify the pattern change through color.
  20. 04:53:981 (6) - NC would be cool.
I don't really like how you did the NC xP. You can spam NC more often to make your patterns easier to identify. You'll see that one of the many changes that came with modern, 2015 mapping is that mappers tend to spam NC. You see Insanes and Extra's that are ranked where total combo count might rarely even exceed 6 or 7 in Kiai because of NC spam every half-measure even. I don't think this NC spam concept is a 2015 style though, i feel like its more of an adaption from previous mapping styles being difficult to read as mappers began to use more overlaps and harder-to-read patterns. Not all things that were changed between say 2012 to 2015 constitute as part of a new style.

Note that I didn't ignore the NC mods, but I redid the comboing entirely.
Thanks for the mod!
Monstrata
Recheck!

  1. 00:01:782 (3,2) - I think if you made the tail-end of slider 3 a bit better, the next silder which you blanket wouldn't look so awkward.
  2. 00:23:701 (6) - NC here would look really cool tbh. I don't know if i mentioned it previously, but i'll mention it again.
  3. 00:40:832 (1,2) - Kinda odd you skip the drums here considering you map them elsewhere in the intro.
  4. 01:03:850 (9) - How about an NC here
  5. 01:10:445 (1,2) - I'd NC on 2 isntead.
  6. 01:14:453 (1,3) - Is there a reason the NC is on 1 instead of 3 (downbeat?)
  7. 02:12:126 (3,4,5) - Tbh i'm not really liking the rhythm here. It just felt really awkward clicking on 02:12:384 - for me xP But i could hear a beat on the red tick right before it.
  8. 02:13:419 (5,6) - Idk. People seem to enjoy progressively increasing jumps, and this jump sequence is right before a Kiai so how about making this jump bigger rather than smaller? xD 02:13:548 (6) - Try 378||13 it would fit your pattern pretty well.
  9. 02:27:643 (6,6,6) - Did you try experimenting with slightly increasing the SV with each slider? Would look pretty cool here.
  10. 03:19:884 (7) - NC here? Splitting this combo in half is better imo. Its much larger than the combo's that follow 03:21:953 (6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - etc... which contain the same rhythms
  11. 03:27:126 (1) - Is it possible to make this slider fit the curve of the stream a bit more? Mainly just visual stuff.
  12. 03:32:945 (4) - I would NC here. People who aren't amazing at reading would appreciate it, and I don't think it'd hurt anyone.
  13. 04:55:588 (5) - NC here would be nice. Tbh i would double the entire NC pattern for that whole section on 04:48:565 (1). Seeing these single combo's that run for 2-3+ measures with a tonne of 1/4 rhythm still kinda irks me lol.
Anyways call me back!
Topic Starter
Shiro

monstrata wrote:

Recheck!

  1. 00:01:782 (3,2) - I think if you made the tail-end of slider 3 a bit better, the next silder which you blanket wouldn't look so awkward. fixed
  2. 00:23:701 (6) - NC here would look really cool tbh. I don't know if i mentioned it previously, but i'll mention it again. huh, okay, I see where this comes from I think
  3. 00:40:832 (1,2) - Kinda odd you skip the drums here considering you map them elsewhere in the intro. oh, good catch, thanks
  4. 01:03:850 (9) - How about an NC here No, the stream here is part of the previous pattern, it closes it and makes way for the next section of the map
  5. 01:10:445 (1,2) - I'd NC on 2 isntead. (1,2) are linked together since they're mapped on the same word (boku)
  6. 01:14:453 (1,3) - Is there a reason the NC is on 1 instead of 3 (downbeat?) yes, like above (on "mazu")
  7. 02:12:126 (3,4,5) - Tbh i'm not really liking the rhythm here. It just felt really awkward clicking on 02:12:384 - for me xP But i could hear a beat on the red tick right before it. Added a circle to it, hopefully that's better ?
  8. 02:13:419 (5,6) - Idk. People seem to enjoy progressively increasing jumps, and this jump sequence is right before a Kiai so how about making this jump bigger rather than smaller? xD 02:13:548 (6) - Try 378||13 it would fit your pattern pretty well. I never realized this jump was smaller, fixed
  9. 02:27:643 (6,6,6) - Did you try experimenting with slightly increasing the SV with each slider? Would look pretty cool here. Yup, I have, and I don't think it's better than what I have here, if you look at the position of every slider, they're stacked under the repeat of the previous one, but adding higher velocities would ruin that
  10. 03:19:884 (7) - NC here? Splitting this combo in half is better imo. Its much larger than the combo's that follow 03:21:953 (6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - etc... which contain the same rhythms okay
  11. 03:27:126 (1) - Is it possible to make this slider fit the curve of the stream a bit more? Mainly just visual stuff. for consistency with the combo that follows, I made it a straight slider, it fits better
  12. 03:32:945 (4) - I would NC here. People who aren't amazing at reading would appreciate it, and I don't think it'd hurt anyone. Changed the comboing in this part.
  13. 04:55:588 (5) - NC here would be nice. Tbh i would double the entire NC pattern for that whole section on 04:48:565 (1). Seeing these single combo's that run for 2-3+ measures with a tonne of 1/4 rhythm still kinda irks me lol. Changed too.
Anyways call me back!
Thank you for the recheck.
Monstrata
Did a quick irc~

This map looks ready in my eyes. It's well established that many patterns in this map are difficult to read, and I think we were able to adequately remedy that by reworking the NC combo's to make the patterns easier to recognize and read.

Good luck Shiro!
Yauxo
Not a mod, but Ive noticed following in the beginning

■ 00:04:821 (1,2) - Pretty sure 00:04:821 (1) - 's sound ends on the White Tick (in the middle of the Slider) and 00:05:014 (2) - starts on the Blue Tick where the current 1 ends. (To check, use 25% and stop the music. Start from the Blue Tick and then from the White Tick and listen to a significant beatchange. There's none)
■ 00:15:618 (5) - What is that there for? There's nothing to be played
■ 00:21:953 (1) - is offbeat. You went all-out for the following Slider by adding redlines to ensure that they're correctly timed - Why not for this one too? The sound starts somewhere just before the blue tick
■ 03:17:686 (12,1) - This transition is also kinda counterintuitive since you have to speedily speed speed change from going "fast upwards" (kickslider) to "fast downwards" (to get to the Stream) and then also hit the 232bpm Stream (which is going upwards again). Lots of throwing the cursor around that couldve been avoided (with the Stream starting on 222/102 for example)

Also, dont you think that all of this isnt somewhat overmapped? 02:31:264 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -, 03:56:997 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) -, 04:08:505 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - ...eh? Generally, most of the jumps are all the same/feel the same, but with extending patterns here and there. Even the actual patterns repeat one after another. :v
Topic Starter
Shiro

Yauxo wrote:

Not a mod, but Ive noticed following in the beginning

■ 00:04:821 (1,2) - Pretty sure 00:04:821 (1) - 's sound ends on the White Tick (in the middle of the Slider) and 00:05:014 (2) - starts on the Blue Tick where the current 1 ends. (To check, use 25% and stop the music. Start from the Blue Tick and then from the White Tick and listen to a significant beatchange. There's none) shit you're right, thanks, I fixed that
■ 00:15:618 (5) - What is that there for? There's nothing to be played It mimicks this 00:10:575 (3,4) - (except with a circle), I added that because I found it was really cool to play and added a much welcome repetition. I found it contributes positively to the map, so I want to keep it.
■ 00:21:953 (1) - is offbeat. You went all-out for the following Slider by adding redlines to ensure that they're correctly timed - Why not for this one too? The sound starts somewhere just before the blue tick I didn't do the timing. That said, you're right about the slider, I changed it.
■ 03:17:686 (12,1) - This transition is also kinda counterintuitive since you have to speedily speed speed change from going "fast upwards" (kickslider) to "fast downwards" (to get to the Stream) and then also hit the 232bpm Stream (which is going upwards again). Lots of throwing the cursor around that couldve been avoided (with the Stream starting on 222/102 for example) That is something I did on purpose, because the flute goes from fast different notes (the spaced part) to some sort of trill (the compressed stream) and I wanted to emphasize that transition

Also, dont you think that all of this isnt somewhat overmapped? 02:31:264 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -, 03:56:997 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) -, 04:08:505 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - ...eh? Generally, most of the jumps are all the same/feel the same, but with extending patterns here and there. Even the actual patterns repeat one after another. :v it's not, listen to the big drum =(
Did you wait for this to be bubbled to post your mod ? ;A; thanks though
Yauxo

Shiro wrote:

Did you wait for this to be bubbled to post your mod ? ;A; thanks though
I randomly found this as it popped up in the forum preview thing - and since it's tengaku (as well as it being bubbled and 7+ stars), I had to take a short look at it.
Monstrata
Rebubbling! Thanks Yauxo :)
Yauxo
Good Luck!
Bearizm
If this gets qualified, just brace yourself for the massive shitstorm you'll be getting..

that or people would love it :p
Liiraye

Azer wrote:

I agree, I'm biased towards modern era mapping and I do dislike older style mapping but the way I see it, modern mapping exists today because it fixed flaws older styles had (one of the biggest ones is lack on emphasis on individual notes because of distance snapping), it's moving forward and as a modern era player/mapper I'm really on the other side of the coin, I think older maps are boring (I'm speaking very generally here, there's been tons of amazing maps that are still very fun to play) and modern maps focus on distance changes ("spacing is optional") because they emphasize individual notes in the song, which makes you feel like you are playing the song and not playing a map of the song, if that makes sense. In the end it's just my opinion and I understand why you disagree with me.

While this does sound ideal to me (maps focused on individual sounds rather than arbitrary patterns) that is sadly not the case with modern mapping. I do think lots of things and ideas have emerged for the better lately, and mappers constantly keep growing & learning, but these days it's like loctav said. Mainly triangle jumps and imo arbitrary jump patterns that doesn't really fit (also speaking very general here, I do acknowledge the modern masterpieces made even in 2015). Spacing is up to the mapstyle you're going for really, so I won't get into that.

So you both have a point, but none should try to force mappers to change the style of their maps D: /late


Shiro: Huge congrats! Will certainly be interesting to see how this will be recieved when ranked!
Raiden
Good luck shiro ;)

Shiro*
Topic Starter
Shiro

Raiden wrote:

Good luck shiro ;)

Shiro*

You forgot the bubble icon
ukod
I quickly checked the timing of this map

00:10:058 (1) - Move one blue tick to the left

00:10:510 (2) - Remove this

00:37:213 (4,5,6,7,1) - Should be timed like this
00:40:768 (2) - Remove this

00:43:161 (13,14,15,16,17) - Time like this
00:44:971 (1) - I just assumed you wanted to time the drums, in which case the timing is in 1/8 and 1/12
00:47:298 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - Completely overmapped

00:54:798 (1,2,3) - Time it like this
00:57:448 (4) - Remove this

01:01:652 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Completely overmapped

01:18:655 (8,10) - Remove those

01:24:540 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - Overmapped

01:59:971 (4,5,6,7,1) - I found this timing
02:49:433 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - I think single slider fit vibrations like those better than streams

03:06:113 (6,8,10) - Remove them and map the 1/2 as jumps

03:10:057 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - is 1/3 in the song

03:12:126 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - ^

03:14:195 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - ^

03:16:781 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - ^

03:17:815 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - ^

03:18:396 (10) - Remove this

03:25:057 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - is 1/3 in the song



Since I'm not a mapper I don't know if any of that is unrankable, feel free to ignore
Topic Starter
Shiro

Ukod wrote:

I quickly checked the timing of this map

00:10:058 (1) - Move one blue tick to the left hmm you're right, done

00:10:510 (2) - Remove this fuck no, it goes with the flute. I'll just flat out ignore the "remove this" comments.

00:37:213 (4,5,6,7,1) - Should be timed like this for all these: the big stringed instrument is always around 9/16 late. Trying to time to it would be delusional. I'll ignore further comments for it.

00:43:161 (13,14,15,16,17) - Time like this I could, but considering the pattern, it would be properly unreadable. I'll keep the 5-note stream, which is more intuitive and strangely more fitting here.

00:44:971 (1) - I just assumed you wanted to time the drums, in which case the timing is in 1/8 and 1/12
00:47:298 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - Completely overmapped or is it ? it goes with the trill the flute goes for.

00:54:798 (1,2,3) - Time it like this That's unplayable.

01:01:652 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Completely overmapped Listen to the guitar.

01:24:540 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - Overmapped I'll just ignore these as well.

01:59:971 (4,5,6,7,1) - I found this timing it is both wrong and unfitting

02:49:433 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - I think single slider fit vibrations like those better than streams I don't. The stream complements the slider well and represents the weird sound a lot better than a slider ever would.

03:06:113 (6,8,10) - Remove them and map the 1/2 as jumps Er, no. Did you miss the buildup with the patterns before ?

03:10:057 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - is 1/3 in the song

03:12:126 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - ^

03:14:195 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1) - ^

03:16:781 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - ^

03:17:815 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - ^

All changed, good catch

03:18:396 (10) - Remove this

03:25:057 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - is 1/3 in the song what ? no



Since I'm not a mapper I don't know if any of that is unrankable, feel free to ignore
Thank you for your time. While I appreciate your input (you did point out actual problems), it seems to me you did not try to understand what I was doing (hence the "overmapped" and "remove this" comments). You should try to see where the mapper is going when modding something. Either way, thank you for taking the time to look at this and post feedback. I greatly appreciate it.
Krfawy
A new red line and a green line at the same time are okay as long as the green line provides any SV change. 00:47:816 - this one doesn't so we can simply count it as a doubled timing line. Let me know when the green line is deleted. Vroom!

EDIT: Bubble #1 because there were many smaller and bigger changes. \wwwwwwww/ This map is kind of crazy but I had more fun while playing it than while playing most of 2013-2015 maps. I had to use HT mod but who cares. L69L Good luck Shiro!
Monstrata
#2~

Lets go :D
Yuii-
Hellaaaw~
You asked me to mod this... 4 months ago.
Here I am.

Map's clear. Not any general issues need to be address other than the typical "Toggle Widescreen Support and Letterbox off".
Okay, so we both know how much effort you put onto this and I am not the best modder to analyze this beatmap, but I will try it because why not. Before you start reading this modding, I want to tell you how I will mod this: based on every pattern, transition and angle, that may affect playability or reading very hard up to the point of being impossible to get an FC. Basically, before saying something, trying to understand what was your thinking while you were placing every single object, let's try it.

  1. The combos in the beginning of the map are random, let me tell you why. Up to 00:06:049 - everything seems fine, but then comes the problem. 00:06:049 (1,2,3) - is a 1/4 pattern, a'ight? Although, the distance from (2,3) is similar to 00:10:510 (3,4) - and they do have the same combo as well. Thing is, there's no way of detecting any of these patterns with such a low spacing when the 1/2, 1/4 or even the 1/6 (on 00:07:536 (3,4) - ) have the same combo. How can anyone know that 00:12:644 (4,1,2,3,4) - is not 1/4?
  2. 00:49:884 (7,8) - Quite a big and unnecessary jump, in my opinion. What about moving (7) somewhere close to 00:49:109 (2) - ?
  3. 01:07:988 (8) - I wouldn't have mapped this considering there's an extended sound from 01:07:729 (7) - , there's literally nothing to make clickable on (8), so maybe extending or adding a repeater to (7) wouldn't be a bad idea at all.
  4. 01:11:479 (6,8) - Have you thought on curving these a bit? Sometimes curved sliders give players an intuitive moment in which they can imagine where the following object is going to be, especially when you are not placing that object below the previous slider, as said, you are placing 01:11:350 (5,7) - from above (6,8)'s head.
  5. 01:12:514 (4,5) - You're spacing this pattern gradually but suddenly woop, distance gets decreased. Intentional? Also, you want to take a look at 01:37:341 (10,11) - since (5) and (11) have a similar connotation rhythm-wise, and whilst one is being very emphasised, the other is being overshadowed.
  6. 01:25:315 (3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - I don't know what do you think about these, but from my point of view, all these angles are quite sharp.
  7. 01:33:333 (12,1) - I thought you were stacking notes after pauses :(
  8. 01:43:936 (3,4) - Oh, love these. Good flow over here, well done!
  9. 01:55:703 (4,5,1) - Quite a bad transition, imho. What about http://puu.sh/lgoqx/ffd645aa87.jpg ?
  10. Time to compare, yaaaay! 02:10:574 (1,2) - 1/1 spacing not stacked; 02:10:833 (2,3) - 1/1 spacing stacked; 02:11:867 (2,3) - 1/1 spacing not stacked. You are evil, Shiro :(
  11. You know which is the difference between 02:25:057 (1,2) - and 02:25:445 (3,4) - when you play it? There's no difference, and regarding the high BPM this map has, maybe placing 02:25:703 (4) - on x208 y240 would play way more better.
  12. 02:43:678 (7,1) - Maybe you can combine them into one object, I can't literally hear anything on (1)'s head at all.
  13. Time to compare... again, wiiiiii! 03:09:022 (3,1) - there's a stack over here; but there's no stack on 03:11:091 (3,1) - 03:13:160 (3,1) - . How evil can you be?
  14. 03:58:160 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4) - I had a lot of troubles when playing this part. There's no clear path between each object, you mapped them the same way when they play way too different. That's something to take note of. Y'know, when you place a stack on the same section that other stack, you gotta make them more or less feel the similar way, if you are inconsistent with all your patterns, playing them will hurt a lot and it will be unfun and counter-intuitive to the player.
  15. 04:20:660 (3,4) - Want to hear the reason behind these not being stacked with 04:20:402 (1,2) - <3. Just myself being too picky, sorry sorry!
  16. 04:20:919 (1) - You know what would be AMAZING? Finish it on 04:22:772 - (1/6) because there's a super loud beat over there! Maybe you could even add a hitsound if you feel confident enough.
  17. 04:28:807 (6,7,8) - Awww, linear flow? Come on, give these objects something... a pattern, make a triangle, make something more funny.
  18. 04:39:281 (3) - I'm so sorry for this... curve it, curve it, Shiro!
  19. 04:55:129 (3) - Random whistle maybe? There's literally nothing on this circle, no need to hitsound it.
  20. 04:56:342 (4,5) - I can't tell how off (4)'s tail and (5)'s head are, but... they are not timed correctly, to my ears! Maybe 20~ms off?
---------------

Sorry for not explaining myself very good on some points, you may find some things quite hard to understand maybe on how I mod. I'm a bit nervous because I have my job interview in 1 hour and hell... soooo nervous. Good luck to both of us!
Peace, Shiro!
Topic Starter
Shiro

Yuii- wrote:

Hellaaaw~
You asked me to mod this... 4 months ago.
Here I am.

Map's clear. Not any general issues need to be address other than the typical "Toggle Widescreen Support and Letterbox off".
Okay, so we both know how much effort you put onto this and I am not the best modder to analyze this beatmap, but I will try it because why not. Before you start reading this modding, I want to tell you how I will mod this: based on every pattern, transition and angle, that may affect playability or reading very hard up to the point of being impossible to get an FC. Basically, before saying something, trying to understand what was your thinking while you were placing every single object, let's try it.

  1. The combos in the beginning of the map are random, let me tell you why. Up to 00:06:049 - everything seems fine, but then comes the problem. 00:06:049 (1,2,3) - is a 1/4 pattern, a'ight? Although, the distance from (2,3) is similar to 00:10:510 (3,4) - and they do have the same combo as well. Thing is, there's no way of detecting any of these patterns with such a low spacing when the 1/2, 1/4 or even the 1/6 (on 00:07:536 (3,4) - ) have the same combo. How can anyone know that 00:12:644 (4,1,2,3,4) - is not 1/4? Huh, blame Loctav for this. Basically, the comboing is not based on musical phrases as I usually do, but based on groups of notes, separated by silences. That's not actually proper comboing, but in this case, it's the best I could do without having longass combos.
  2. 00:49:884 (7,8) - Quite a big and unnecessary jump, in my opinion. What about moving (7) somewhere close to 00:49:109 (2) - ? Nope, the jumps emphasizes the switch from guitar to the weird big stringed instrument. This is extremely important for 00:50:272 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - to be more intuitive, as it follows the same instrument.
  3. 01:07:988 (8) - I wouldn't have mapped this considering there's an extended sound from 01:07:729 (7) - , there's literally nothing to make clickable on (8), so maybe extending or adding a repeater to (7) wouldn't be a bad idea at all. There's a drum hit, which are all important. Also, for the sake of the consistency in rhythms, I need this white tick clicked.
  4. 01:11:479 (6,8) - Have you thought on curving these a bit? Sometimes curved sliders give players an intuitive moment in which they can imagine where the following object is going to be, especially when you are not placing that object below the previous slider, as said, you are placing 01:11:350 (5,7) - from above (6,8)'s head. I wanted to curve them and forgot, thanks
  5. 01:12:514 (4,5) - You're spacing this pattern gradually but suddenly woop, distance gets decreased. Intentional? Also, you want to take a look at 01:37:341 (10,11) - since (5) and (11) have a similar connotation rhythm-wise, and whilst one is being very emphasised, the other is being overshadowed. Both are intentional. In the first pattern 01:12:255 (2,3,4,5) - the kick sample on 01:12:643 (5) - makes it barely audible in the song, which makes it a good break point, and that's why the distance is decreased: it doesn't emphasize 01:12:643 (5) - at all and allows for the break with the stack. On the other hand, 01:37:212 (9,10,11) - is introduced by a vocal line that goes higher in pitch, so 01:37:212 (9,10,11) - is more emphasized than the other pattern and that's why I used jumps for one and not the other.
  6. 01:25:315 (3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - I don't know what do you think about these, but from my point of view, all these angles are quite sharp. Map is built around sharp angles and back and forth patterns.
  7. 01:33:333 (12,1) - I thought you were stacking notes after pauses :( hmm good points ill change this a bit
  8. 01:43:936 (3,4) - Oh, love these. Good flow over here, well done! of course it's good flow, it's a Shiro map 8)
  9. 01:55:703 (4,5,1) - Quite a bad transition, imho. What about http://puu.sh/lgoqx/ffd645aa87.jpg ? The flow reset on 01:56:091 (1) - is intended to isolate the new sentence in the vocals and reset the flow at that point. It also introduces the angle 01:56:091 (1,2,3,4) - use to make 01:57:126 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - more intuitive.
  10. Time to compare, yaaaay! 02:10:574 (1,2) - 1/1 spacing not stacked; 02:10:833 (2,3) - 1/1 spacing stacked; 02:11:867 (2,3) - 1/1 spacing not stacked. You are evil, Shiro :( :D
  11. You know which is the difference between 02:25:057 (1,2) - and 02:25:445 (3,4) - when you play it? There's no difference, and regarding the high BPM this map has, maybe placing 02:25:703 (4) - on x208 y240 would play way more better. changed, but not your way
  12. 02:43:678 (7,1) - Maybe you can combine them into one object, I can't literally hear anything on (1)'s head at all. ah, my rhythm was wrong
  13. Time to compare... again, wiiiiii! 03:09:022 (3,1) - there's a stack over here; but there's no stack on 03:11:091 (3,1) - 03:13:160 (3,1) - . How evil can you be? That is actually a mistake on my end - it's fixed
  14. 03:58:160 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4) - I had a lot of troubles when playing this part. There's no clear path between each object, you mapped them the same way when they play way too different. That's something to take note of. Y'know, when you place a stack on the same section that other stack, you gotta make them more or less feel the similar way, if you are inconsistent with all your patterns, playing them will hurt a lot and it will be unfun and counter-intuitive to the player. okay, changed this
  15. 04:20:660 (3,4) - Want to hear the reason behind these not being stacked with 04:20:402 (1,2) - <3. Just myself being too picky, sorry sorry! huh, original pattern was way different and i forgot to change them
  16. 04:20:919 (1) - You know what would be AMAZING? Finish it on 04:22:772 - (1/6) because there's a super loud beat over there! Maybe you could even add a hitsound if you feel confident enough. ok but no hitsound
  17. 04:28:807 (6,7,8) - Awww, linear flow? Come on, give these objects something... a pattern, make a triangle, make something more funny. ok
  18. 04:39:281 (3) - I'm so sorry for this... curve it, curve it, Shiro! ok
  19. 04:55:129 (3) - Random whistle maybe? There's literally nothing on this circle, no need to hitsound it. oups, yes
  20. 04:56:342 (4,5) - I can't tell how off (4)'s tail and (5)'s head are, but... they are not timed correctly, to my ears! Maybe 20~ms off? fixed
Thanks for the mod.
---------------

Sorry for not explaining myself very good on some points, you may find some things quite hard to understand maybe on how I mod. I'm a bit nervous because I have my job interview in 1 hour and hell... soooo nervous. Good luck to both of us!
Peace, Shiro!
Kroytz
mod
00:01:265 (1) - I wanna ask why this exists. Triple starting 00:01:394 - sounds more reasonable though I know it doesn't accomplish what you were trying to do, though, what you were trying to do also doesn't sound fitting so idk
00:10:510 (3) - I also wanna ask what inspired you to create this thing of all shapes. Perhaps we interpret the song different but this is some 2010 stuff as are the rest of the slider in this short 10 second intro
00:23:101 (5) - NC for read
00:36:566 (1) - This spacing is misleading due to how you played out that last sequence. I'd rather see it elsewhere but I doubt you'd want to remap parts for this. This is just a technical thing.
00:38:763 (4) - Same goes here. I'd rather leave the former downward structure you did with (2) and the former (3) and space this out more to give more emphasis in that 1/2 pause.
00:41:351 (6,1) - You could easily make a perfect square with these to the previous notes.
00:44:971 (1) - Idk bout this spacing. Why didn't you space this further?
00:49:497 (5) - the dominant beat is on the white tick. You could also add a note here 00:49:820 - as a triple. But the sliders starting on the red tick feel awkward just cuz you're not hitting the dominant beat but playing it out for some pattern thingy in the next section. I'm sure there's a better way to go about this.
00:49:497 (5,8) - Y'see how 5 and 8 go upwards, why not continue that with 00:50:919 (4,6) - cuz otherwise it looks cluttered.
01:12:902 (1) - could anti-jump this
01:20:919 (1) - I thought this section was pretty neat but why not space 01:23:893 (1) - higher up like the other sliders you did
01:33:591 (1) - This could also function well as anti-jump but I suppose it's a matter of style here. This goes for all the other little 1/2 pause thingies you did
02:02:169 (4,1,2) - spacing is quite high here to fit a pattern where the music doesn't feel so threatening. Her vocals go deep and slow
02:10:833 (2) - if this went the other way where it end where you had 02:10:186 (3) - I think it'd be better but the spacing gets closer and this pause doesn't feel quite right when the DS is this low. Doesn't make for a good buildup imo.
02:21:953 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - jesus, now I know why the SR is so high. This would be good if there was a much more proper buildup into this rather than throwing this so suddenly at the players. I'd suggest moving these sliders 02:19:884 (1,2,3,4) - around the playfield more so that those jumps may work a little better because the slider leniancy right now makes those sliders easy to hit and then you get fukd in the ass by airman whirlwinds.
02:27:643 (6) - could space elsewhere for more emphasis and have the other follow suit
03:09:410 (1) - maybe space this more to the corner as well
03:25:057 (1) - yo, this stream could be much more original lol. It's fitting I suppose and that's enough of an argument to keep it but this could easily be more exciting
03:46:781 (1) - this some rabbit shet lol idk what to say
04:00:229 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this could probably be more intense with airman shit
04:06:178 (5,6) - (5) could be center upward slider and NC on 6 for a different pattern cuz yknow, downbeats n stuff
04:07:471 (6) - same here with the NC stuff
04:15:488 (7) - I think anti-jumping these parts would be cool, like if they went more outward to the top left corner as a means to emphasize the distance from the note to the streams. idk i like it
04:20:402 (1,2,3,4) - y not continue pattern downwards?
04:20:919 (1) - could just use a long slider and then follow into all the rekt beats you murdered from 04:21:695 -
04:27:643 (1) - slider?
04:44:712 (1) - this part here could be more intense too rather than overlapping your previous notes
04:45:617 (4) - this should get the most emphasis imo
05:01:926 (1) - you could create a jump thing like http://puu.sh/lgKap/c6a1b270d9.jpg i think this fits better than killing the beats like you did with that spinner :///
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