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Wagakki Band - Tengaku

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Topic Starter
Shiro
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on 14 January 2016 at 14:40:01

Artist: Wagakki Band
Title: Tengaku
Tags: Vocaloid Cover Traditional Japanese Instruments Metal Vocalo Zanmai
BPM: 232
Filesize: 14860kb
Play Time: 05:02
Difficulties Available:
  1. Uncompressed Fury of a Raging Japanese God (7.81 stars, 1524 notes)


Download: Wagakki Band - Tengaku
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
<Shiirn> Tengaku is like watching a tennis match with a cursor for a ball SHIIRN HAS SPOKEN PLEBS
First upload version

9th most voted for in best of 2016 but the weighting system nuked this map to oblivion (#70)

Check out SKSalt's Taiko Wrath diff here!
Check out SnowNiNo_'s Rabbit Jumping Style here! (it's a little bit harder than my version)
Raikozen version
Check out Evening's Mania version here!
Mania 4K version

This beatmap will not be ranked, unless the rules about approval change. Turns out I can get it to 5:01 drain time, so this is going for approval. Blame Faust for the difficulty name! Redownload if downloaded before January first - I rolled the diff name change back. Those for concerned about WW2 kamikaze warriors ("fury of a japanese god" being a way to explain that only God gave those men the courage to kill themselves), this has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Technically not my 26th mapset (since it was a guest diff), but I uploaded it and will get it approved, so here it is: my 26th mapset. Hitsounds are not all by me (like Ikusa). Combo colours chosen by monstrata.

Originally a guest diff for Faust's mapset but we eventually agreed not to add it because it would cause spread issues. I was given permission to upload it as a standalone set, but with the current set of rules, this cannot be approved (I cannot make it have 5:00 drain). As far as the map is concerned, I never made difficulty an objective for this. It is 232 BPM and a very energic song, so yes, I was expecting it to be difficult, but not this much.
The central theme of the map are repeated patterns, with or without overlaps (includes back-and-forth patterns). I noticed many rhythms were repeated in the song and decided to make that the backbone of the map. This resulted in it having a lot of (planned) overlaps and being rather challenging to read, especially at this BPM. Mechanically, the map in itself is extremely difficult, mostly because of the back and forth, but it also happens to be difficult to read as a result of my choices of overlaps.

DQ'd four times =(
pre-DQ2 version: http://puu.sh/m69pO/ebbf6912ec.osu

:^)




<Arphimigon> hey Shiro this map is literally just godly made
* Arphimigon is listening to [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/744549 Wagakki Band - Tengaku]
<Alexefer> it is
<Shiro> thank you
<Alexefer> i love it too
<Arphimigon> you're amazing +1
<Alexefer> <3
<Rafis> I LOVE THE JUMPS










<Fblade> this map is like, a masterpiece
<Reclaimer> Shiro, Tengaku is fkn amazing


Topic Starter
Shiro
Changelog:

  1. 07/01:
    Uploaded to WIP.
  2. 07/04:
    Mapped the intro, outro and break. This is now going for approval!
    Fixes according to blissfulyoshi's mod.
  3. 07/27:
    Fixes according to ohad1881's mod.
  4. 07/28:
    Fixes according to Cherry Blossom's mod.
  5. 07/29:
    Fixes according to Ayaponzu-'s mod.
  6. 08/05:
    Fixes according to Bearizm's mod.
  7. 08/19:
    Fixes according to pinataman's mod.
  8. 09/07:
    Fixes according to Arphimigon's mod.
  9. 09/13:
    Fixes according to NeBuSC2's mod.
  10. 09/24:
    Fixes according to Mazzerin's mod.
    Numerous self and non-self changes, including a remap of the beginning and end. Star rating down from 7.96 to 7.77.
  11. 09/29:
    Fixes according to Azer's mod.
  12. 09/30:
    Fixes according to MillhioreF's mod.
  13. 10/02:
    Fixes according to jesus1412's mod.
  14. 10/31:
    Fixes according to monstrata's mod.
  15. 11/05:
    Fixes according to monstrata's mod (recheck).
    Fixes according to Yauxo's mod.
  16. 11/07:
    Fixes according to Ukod's mod.
  17. 11/10:
    Fixes according to Yuii-'s mod.
    Fixes according to Kroytz's mod.
  18. 11/11:
    Qualified!
  19. 11/17:
    Disqualified for timing issues.
    Fixes according to Dreamtwolf's mod.
    Fixes according to fieryrage's mod.
    Fixes according to jodmangel's mod.
    Updated timing (thanks Charles for timing most of it) and fixed a 10ms intro delay on a hitsound.
  20. 11/18:
    Fixes according to a loli's mod. (nice username)
  21. 11/19:
    Fixes according to freebird42's mod.
  22. 12/11:
    Few changes on my own in the solo part to improve playability.
  23. 12/16:
    Changes to the last stream to improve CtB playability.
  24. 12/18:
    Fixes according to Natsu's mod.
blissfulyoshi
short mini irc mod:

22:16 blissfulyoshi: overall, I do agree the map is an interesting experiment
22:17 blissfulyoshi: I wonder about some of the circles right after sliders having such small spacing
22:17 blissfulyoshi: but that is my only main complaint
22:17 Shiro: cazn you point them out ?
22:17 Shiro: it's possible I overlooked them
22:17 Shiro: I'm not perfect :p
22:17 blissfulyoshi: gah, will check
22:18 blissfulyoshi: 02:12:902 (2) - don't like this overlapping with 02:12:643 (1) -
22:19 blissfulyoshi: 02:25:315 (2) -
22:19 Shiro: fixed
22:20 blissfulyoshi: 03:04:626 (2) - I can go either way on this
22:21 blissfulyoshi: 03:07:988 (7) - I know you want the reflection, but this spacing is way too small imo
22:22 blissfulyoshi: 03:15:488 (4) - trying to stack a note that far back isn't really apparent, and it looks pretty ugly in how it interacts with 03:15:229 (3) - right now
22:23 Shiro: fixed
22:23 Shiro: all of them
22:23 blissfulyoshi: 04:12:902 (2) - for a note with vocal stress, this spacing is pretty low
22:23 blissfulyoshi: and I think that was the last one
22:23 blissfulyoshi: going throught the rest
22:24 blissfulyoshi: nvm 04:37:729 (2) - same as above
22:24 blissfulyoshi: and that is the whole map
22:24 blissfulyoshi: yay mini mod
22:25 Shiro: I don't want the 3/4 to be too hard to play
22:25 blissfulyoshi: mmm
22:25 Shiro: that's why I kept the spacing low
22:25 blissfulyoshi: that is fine
22:25 blissfulyoshi: I always release sliders really early
22:26 blissfulyoshi: so I treat almost any note like that as jumps
ohad1881
hello o/
random mod cause i'm bored
00:12:644 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - isn't it kinda overmapped?
00:32:558 (3) - delete?
00:42:902 (11) - nc?
00:47:300 (8) - ^^
01:03:850 (9) - ^^
01:04:368 (1,2) - swtich nc?
01:12:255 (9,10) - ctrl g them and then ctrl g 10 and 11 after the first ctrl g
01:33:333 (1,2) - swtich nc?
02:24:410 (7,4) - stack?
02:30:229 (7) - nc
02:32:298 (11) - ^^
02:51:953 (1,2) - switch nc?
04:27:126 (2) - nc?
04:33:333 (5) - ^^
gl!
Topic Starter
Shiro

ohad1881 wrote:

hello o/
random mod cause i'm bored aw, thank you
00:12:644 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - isn't it kinda overmapped? yeah, it is, but I was trying to follow the flute in a more interesting way. The slider works for the note that keeps it pitch, but for those circles the pitch changes.
00:32:558 (3) - delete? that is a terrible idea
01:12:255 (9,10) - ctrl g them and then ctrl g 10 and 11 after the first ctrl g no, that would lead to a pattern that doesn't flow well
02:24:410 (7,4) - stack? I'm not sure which objects you are referring to, so I won't change anything for now.
gl!
Thanks for the mod!
Cherry Blossom
As requested.

Uncompressed Fury of A Raging Japanese God



  • General
  1. Unused hitsounds, please remove them :
    - soft-slidertick9.wav
    - soft-slidertick8.wav
    - normal-sliderslide.wav
    - soft-hitclap3.wav
    - soft-hitclap2.wav
  2. Be careful with your normal-hitfinish9/8/7 because they have a little delay above 5ms, and (see the picture) there is nothing really audible in the highlighted part :

    _____________________________________

  3. 00:07:558 (11) - Imo, this slider should end here 00:07:644 - because there is the same sound here 00:07:558 - and here 00:07:644 - and it seems more logical to follow the same sound with a slider, and also i don't really understand why you end this slider on something clearly inaudible.
  4. 00:10:058 (1) - same scenario as ^, it should end here 00:10:402 -
  5. 00:40:704 (1) - I really have doubts concerning this one and it may be snapped wrongly, the song is weird here. I don't really know what the instruments follow, i mean, the ticks.
  6. 00:44:971 (1) - same as ^ imo, this should be 1/6, not 1/4 because you clearly hear that the 4th sound end later than the last blue tick 00:45:164 -
  7. 01:24:540 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) - Why a stream here ? i listened to this part carefully and i don't really hear anything on each blue ticks, this section is enough difficult, you don't need to add more difficulty because it could be overkill and not appreciated.
  8. 02:24:410 (7,8,9) - It looks weird that you didn't increase the distance between 02:24:669 (8,9) - in order to emphasize this note 02:24:798 -.
  9. 02:45:617 (10) - Here, this note looks stronger than 02:45:746 (1) - and I just have the feeling that there is a wrong emphasis here. But i guess this is intentional that you didn't put a finish on this note 02:45:617 (10) - , but it could be more logical if you put a finish on it and consider it as the note you should emphasize with a jump.
  10. 03:38:247 (5,6,7,8,9) - this look a little difficult to handle and a little surprising because of the difference between the back and forth motion and 03:38:247 (5,6) - and their angle. It could be better if you increase the distance between 03:38:247 (5,6) - to make this pattern more comfortable to play and read and more fluid as well.
  11. 04:55:236 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - They sound a little offbeat if you listen to them carefully, consider rechecking timing here, maybe the red timing point offset.

That map gave me much headache, i tried to understand it uuuh.
I hope it was helpful, and i like that song.
Good luck and star. ~
Lucent Dragon
Passed it. Really nice map.
XII
wow what a cool map 8-)8-)8-)8-) Hope it gets ranked good luck!

Topic Starter
Shiro

Cherry Blossom wrote:

As requested.

Uncompressed Fury of A Raging Japanese God



  • General
  1. Unused hitsounds, please remove them :
    - soft-slidertick9.wav
    - soft-slidertick8.wav
    - normal-sliderslide.wav
    - soft-hitclap3.wav
    - soft-hitclap2.wav
    Removed.
  2. Be careful with your normal-hitfinish9/8/7 because they have a little delay above 5ms, and (see the picture) there is nothing really audible in the highlighted part :
    I didn't edit these, I used the normal-hitfinish sample o.O

    _____________________________________

  3. 00:07:558 (11) - Imo, this slider should end here 00:07:644 - because there is the same sound here 00:07:558 - and here 00:07:644 - and it seems more logical to follow the same sound with a slider, and also i don't really understand why you end this slider on something clearly inaudible. I changed for a repeat slider. Also, there are sounds that can be heard clearly and others not - I end slider early so that the prominent sounds are clicked.
  4. 00:10:058 (1) - same scenario as ^, it should end here 00:10:402 - This one I disagree with. In terms of pitch it's still the same note, except it comes to an end. I'll keep the slider.
  5. 00:40:704 (1) - I really have doubts concerning this one and it may be snapped wrongly, the song is weird here. I don't really know what the instruments follow, i mean, the ticks. It's meant to follow the trill in the flute, but it's barely audible at all.
  6. 00:44:971 (1) - same as ^ imo, this should be 1/6, not 1/4 because you clearly hear that the 4th sound end later than the last blue tick 00:45:164 - huh damn this one was meant to be 1/3 (hence the 3 repeats instead of 4), thanks for pointing that out
  7. 01:24:540 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) - Why a stream here ? i listened to this part carefully and i don't really hear anything on each blue ticks, this section is enough difficult, you don't need to add more difficulty because it could be overkill and not appreciated. The stream follows that weird string instrument used as a piano. I could have replaced with 1/4 sliders, but I find this a lot more playable. Not only does this follow the string instrument properly (in a playable way) it highlights the fast "piano" notes and provides a good build up into the bigger jumps for the next part.
  8. 02:24:410 (7,8,9) - It looks weird that you didn't increase the distance between 02:24:669 (8,9) - in order to emphasize this note 02:24:798 -. Made these jumps, but the 02:24:798 (9,1) - jump is bigger than 02:24:669 (8,9) -
  9. 02:45:617 (10) - Here, this note looks stronger than 02:45:746 (1) - and I just have the feeling that there is a wrong emphasis here. But i guess this is intentional that you didn't put a finish on this note 02:45:617 (10) - , but it could be more logical if you put a finish on it and consider it as the note you should emphasize with a jump. This isn't emphasized at all to me. What's emphasize is that weird stream instrument that clearly stands out, while (10) is just... part of the drums.
  10. 03:38:247 (5,6,7,8,9) - this look a little difficult to handle and a little surprising because of the difference between the back and forth motion and 03:38:247 (5,6) - and their angle. It could be better if you increase the distance between 03:38:247 (5,6) - to make this pattern more comfortable to play and read and more fluid as well. Huh I don't understand why you want a jump, the pattern I have is already fluid if you can play the back and forth properly, I don't understand the problem here
  11. 04:55:236 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - They sound a little offbeat if you listen to them carefully, consider rechecking timing here, maybe the red timing point offset. Fixed, thanks

That map gave me much headache, i tried to understand it uuuh. ;_;
I hope it was helpful, and i like that song.
Good luck and star. ~
Thank you.
Tamie
I dont know much about mapping, and im not very confident with my english, but i love the song and here is my mod, feel free to take my suggestions. ♥

  • Uncompressed Fury of A Raging Japanese God




    1. All these snapping problems can be fixed by setting the Beat Snap Divisor of the object from 1/3 to 1/4

    General

  • I think most of the notes are unsnapped and not in the center of the tick.


    ______________________________________


  • 00:12:644 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - It's hard to follow that section, the flaute doesnt do any sounds there, maybe some slider repeats con make it easier to follow.
  • 00:21:953 (3) - There isnt any sound in the music to begin that slider, the sound of the weird string instrument starts on 00:22:018
  • 00:32:428 (1,2,3,4,5) - This part feels a bit weird without strong hitsounds, it would be nice if you use normal-hitfinish like in the other streams.
  • 00:46:265 (5) - This slider-end feels weird without a solid hitsound, some sound of the drum sampleset would be nice to make it sound like -> "ka-poom"
  • 00:47:816 (1) - 01:04:368 (17) - I think this section needs a different hitsounding, emphasizing the strong feel of this part, adding a kiai would be nice too.
  • 00:47:816 (1) - 01:04:368 (17) - You didn't use claps on this section!, i think the claps sound really cool and helps following the rhytm.
  • 00:48:591 (5) - This is only if you like my previous suggestion, adding a object with a hitclap would sound really nice
  • 02:16:522 (10) - Missing clap?
  • 02:14:712 (2) - 02:33:203 (18) - Same as 00:47:816 (1) these parts need much more strong hitsounding, since its an intense part it should differentiate from the principal sections
  • 02:35:402 (1) - 02:51:953 (14) - Would be nice to have hitclaps here too, since its an important part of the chorus
  • 03:04:626 (1) - This combo should start here instead -> 03:04:367 (11) - i think it fits better because this is when the sound changes
  • 04:22:988 (1) - 04:27:126 (2) - Same as 00:47:816 hitclaps would be nice too, its the only bridge of the song.

That's all, good luck on the map, i hope that this is helpful. ♥
Topic Starter
Shiro

Ayaponzu- wrote:

I dont know much about mapping, and im not very confident with my english, but i love the song and here is my mod, feel free to take my suggestions. ♥

  • Uncompressed Fury of A Raging Japanese God




    1. All these snapping problems can be fixed by setting the Beat Snap Divisor of the object from 1/3 to 1/4

    Fixed all, thanks.

    General

  • I think most of the notes are unsnapped and not in the center of the tick.


    ______________________________________


  • 00:12:644 (4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - It's hard to follow that section, the flaute doesnt do any sounds there, maybe some slider repeats con make it easier to follow. Yeah I used circles but it feels weird to play, replaced with sliders for now.
  • 00:21:953 (3) - There isnt any sound in the music to begin that slider, the sound of the weird string instrument starts on 00:22:018 You are right. However, the slider does end on where the piano-like instrument starts. To avoid having unexpected and unintuitive rhythm, I made this slider which covers the sound I want, but is clicked in a more intuitive way.
  • 00:32:428 (1,2,3,4,5) - This part feels a bit weird without strong hitsounds, it would be nice if you use normal-hitfinish like in the other streams. This stream follows the flute's trill - I want a contrast between the fairly quiet flute and the overwhelming drums, one last sample of the flute during the intro before the song uses other instruments.
  • 00:46:265 (5) - This slider-end feels weird without a solid hitsound, some sound of the drum sampleset would be nice to make it sound like -> "ka-poom"The goal of this slider is exactly to end this hitsound early. If I had used a circle here, the hitsound would be heard for a moment after it, but placing a slider makes the sliderend prominent and suppresses the sound from the other instrument. It emphasizes the sudden drum hit and its abrupt end.
  • 00:47:816 (1) - 01:04:368 (17) - I think this section needs a different hitsounding, emphasizing the strong feel of this part, adding a kiai would be nice too. It has plenty of hitsounds, but in terms of structure, it's way too soon to add the claps. I followed the flute and cymbals, which is more than enough considering the place of this in the map.
  • 00:47:816 (1) - 01:04:368 (17) - You didn't use claps on this section!, i think the claps sound really cool and helps following the rhytm. Read above.
  • 00:48:591 (5) - This is only if you like my previous suggestion, adding a object with a hitclap would sound really nice Read above again =P
  • 02:16:522 (10) - Missing clap? Dang. Good catch.
  • 02:14:712 (2) - 02:33:203 (18) - Same as 00:47:816 (1) these parts need much more strong hitsounding, since its an intense part it should differentiate from the principal sections Hitsounding already differs - those are the two parts of the chorus and I would rather not change too much about them.
  • 02:35:402 (1) - 02:51:953 (14) - Would be nice to have hitclaps here too, since its an important part of the chorus It's another section with quiet drums and overwhelming flute like 00:47:816 (1) - so hitsounding is similar.
  • 03:04:626 (1) - This combo should start here instead -> 03:04:367 (11) - i think it fits better because this is when the sound changes Comboing follows the vocals here!
  • 04:22:988 (1) - 04:27:126 (2) - Same as 00:47:816 hitclaps would be nice too, its the only bridge of the song. Actually, I agree with this one. I improved the hitsounding for the whole section.

That's all, good luck on the map, i hope that this is helpful. ♥
Thank you for the mod, I wasn't expecting any yet!
Artorias_DELETED
Shot a couple of stars at this, gl.
Bearizm
just a quick look cuz I wanted to.. you don't have to kd if it's useless.

00:39:023 (8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - should be 1/3.

00:43:354 (18) - overmapped.

00:54:992 (4) - ^

01:01:716 (9,10,11,12,13,14) - why stream? You're probably trying to "emphasize" the guitar, but it would suit a long slider better. better stick to 1/2.

01:24:540 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) - I can't hear anything that supports 1/4. Yes, I read your mod reply from CB, but I strongly agree with him. Try not to map something that's barely audible.

03:16:781 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - following the flute's tempo isn't the best idea imo because it changes a lot. 03:16:781 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - should be 1/3. and 03:17:815 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - is also 1/3 but.. only in the beginning and then it starts to change to a different one. i'm not sure, it changes a lot. just follow the drums to be safe tbh. you can just listen with 25% speed.

04:26:608 (1) - you can make this a slider art that ends until 04:27:061 - and then make 04:27:126 (2) - a very slow SV since the instrument stops playing here, then revert the SV back to normal for 04:27:643 (1) -

04:48:565 (1) - this part is 100% unnecessary imo. I think it's just better to put a long spinner there.

00:23:701 (10) - why can't this be just 1 long slider? the repeat doesn't land anywhere.

00:25:351 (1) - silence this spinner at the end

good luck!...
Topic Starter
Shiro

Bearizm wrote:

just a quick look cuz I wanted to.. you don't have to kd if it's useless. Oh my, thank you for this. I didn't expect anyone to mod, even less so on their own decision.

00:39:023 (8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - should be 1/3. Oh god I never noticed thank you

00:43:354 (18) - overmapped. In terms of gameplay, this is MUCH BETTER than xxx x, especially at this low spacing.

00:54:992 (4) - ^ same thing here

01:01:716 (9,10,11,12,13,14) - why stream? You're probably trying to "emphasize" the guitar, but it would suit a long slider better. better stick to 1/2.
Because a stream musically fits here with the guitar, and provides a really good transition to the next part by lowering spacing intuitively.
01:24:540 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) - I can't hear anything that supports 1/4. Yes, I read your mod reply from CB, but I strongly agree with him. Try not to map something that's barely audible. These aren't going to change, sorry. They help emphasize this harp-like instrument.

03:16:781 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - following the flute's tempo isn't the best idea imo because it changes a lot. 03:16:781 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - should be 1/3. and 03:17:815 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - is also 1/3 but.. only in the beginning and then it starts to change to a different one. i'm not sure, it changes a lot. just follow the drums to be safe tbh. you can just listen with 25% speed. Yeah I know, I've been looking for a way to remap this part. Haven't found anything yet though.

04:26:608 (1) - you can make this a slider art that ends until 04:27:061 - and then make 04:27:126 (2) - a very slow SV since the instrument stops playing here, then revert the SV back to normal for 04:27:643 (1) - In terms if isolation of the notes, this is a terrible idea, as it would join 04:27:126 (2,1) - which should NOT be joined. I see where you're coming from with this suggestion, but I like the silence time circles offer. Sliders would not have the same impact.

04:48:565 (1) - this part is 100% unnecessary imo. I think it's just better to put a long spinner there. I'm not happy30 I don't make people fail a HR run because of a stupid spinner. I liked the spam of everything at the end of the song so I did the same in the map: circles and repeat sliders galore! I like the effect it has at the end, like the map is completely losing it and going into random stuff when it was very clearly deeply structured before.

00:23:701 (10) - why can't this be just 1 long slider? the repeat doesn't land anywhere. You have a point. I made it a 0.5 slider to keep the weird shape and duration.

00:25:351 (1) - silence this spinner at the end It already is silenced.

good luck!... yup, I will need it...
Thank you very much for the unexpected mod. You made me feel bad by saying this is overmapped - there is a reason behind everything in my maps.
Rafis


Really fun, readable beatmap. FCing the jumps is really satisfying.
The Veldt
Good map
pinataman
Hi Shiro. I was lurking in modhelp, and your plot to revolt against the doldrums of the TV size nation inspired me to mod your map. Unfortunately, I'm not good enough at playing to properly test this map, so if my suggestions seem off base I apologize. Also I'm a mapper who likes to prioritize the melody/vocals, so make sure you take that bias into consideration. Hope this helps!

[Map]

00:53:893 (6) – There seems to be some funkiness going on here with the timing. Slow everything around this combo down and see if the stringed instrument feels off to you. The finish hitsound here makes it especially noticeable. Not really sure what to do, so it might just be me being difficult.

Argument: Change in music is not mapped enough
01:02:298 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - You designate the repetitive music of the high-pitched strings at 00:58:031 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - with a back and forth flow. The low percussion, while similar, is different enough from the strings in pitch that I'd like to see a more meaningful distinction between these two flows to better express the different emotions evoked by the different instruments/sounds (besides making the general motion move down slightly). Perhaps making the general flow also curve (ex: http://puu.sh/jFypH/93b315150d.jpg), though other possibilities exist as well (like doing ctrl + G on each of 01:02:428 (2,4,6,8) – and amend spacing).

01:08:764 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) – I think there's enough playfulness in the singer that you can change the flow a little. In particular, at 01:09:022 (2) - , the singer goes “ma-i,” which takes up two syllables, as opposed to what she does at 01:09:410 (4) – by doing only one syllable. So starting the repetition at 01:09:410 (4) – instead could be interesting (ex: http://puu.sh/jFYfL/44bebe2fc8.jpg). The possibility also exists to not use repetition (like maybe http://puu.sh/jFYpw/19b4a6e4b4.jpg), though that seems more of a personal thing since you seem to like to map the repetitive nature of the rhythm.

01:18:074 (6,7,8) – consider something like http://puu.sh/jFyBh/67ae827f85.jpg , though it does play fine as is.

Argument: Change in music is not mapped enough
01:24:540 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) – These strings should feel different from the finishes at 01:23:893 (6) - . Try doing ctrl + J on 01:24:540 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) – and amend the spacing

01:33:591 (1,4,7) – The ¾ sliders are trying to draw attention to the singer, right? Because if it isn't, then I don't see why to use ¾ when ½ sliders go with the drum more. Drawing attention to the singer though conflicts a little with this pattern. The change in the singer's pitch at 01:34:884 (7) – is a call to break the repetition in the flow and emphasize the singer there. Also, the singer gets syncopated and starts the downbeat at 01:35:272 - , so going with the singer with these ¾ sliders set up a kind of let down when this strong beat doesn't get a click. My suggestion would be to either use ½ sliders here and amend the spacing, or use ¾ sliders until 01:34:884 (7) – where you would change the rhythm and flow to go with the singer.

02:08:375 (4) - These long sliders like 02:05:272 (4) – get their emphasis from the held vocals of the singer, right? If that's the case, then 02:08:375 (4) – is a problem because the singer doesn't get syncopated here. 02:08:246 (3) – is a held vocal, so the following note goes with the downbeat at 02:08:505 – which causes the slider to feel weird repeating something that isn't there. Try going with the rhythm of the singer with a rhythm like http://puu.sh/jG0qY/d0575b6130.jpg , which sets up connecting the flow of the (1) and (2) sliders in some way to emphasize the repeated pitch in the lyrics “to – oh.”

02:26:867 (9) – The spacing into this feels a little too small. I see the design you're going for, but moving it to the 176, 20 ish area keeps the spirit of the design while not making the pattern so restful.

02:39:152 (4) – The rest after this doesn't seem intuitive when the spinner at 02:33:333 (1) – acts as a rest so recently ago. To me, the pacing suggests you emphasize the strings here. I'd like to understand why you think there should be a rest here at all, and if there should be a rest, why not have the rest after 02:43:290 (4) – instead or in addition?

Argument: Change in music is not mapped enough
02:51:436 (9,10,11,12) – These drums start with too similar of an angled flow as the percussions at 02:49:885 (1,2,3,4) - . Try a more distinct flow like zig-zag or square (ex: http://puu.sh/jFzo7/3dd83f0990.jpg)

03:21:178 (1) – This sections seems just a little too restful, so try increasing the spacing into this note. To explain more, you put the wind in my sails with the stream here 03:16:781 (1) - , then immediately take it out. I don't disagree with the rest, I just think you rest too hard. This change emphasizes the flute nicely and gives the player a renewed sense of energy coming off the rest combo of 03:18:850 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - .
03:22:988 (1) – Similar argument/suggestion ^
03:24:022 (7) – Around here again, I would give the nod to the flute so that this section doesn't feel too restful (leaving as much as possible of 03:24:281 (8,9,10,11,12) – as a rest in setting up for the stream). But here the rhythm gets a little confusing since the flute isn't perfectly timed at 03:24:152 – (It might go into 1/3, but that just seems weird to play). I'm conflicted because while I do think you should map the flute here (for instance, make a slider at 03:24:152 – or something and increase the spacing leading up to it), I don't want to suggest something stupid like mapping a rhythm that is not timed right. Basically, I don't know what to do.

03:32:428 (6) – NC to emphasize the guitar/rhythm change?

03:39:281 (11,1) – The distance between these could be bigger to emphasize the downbeat more, especially after the slight rest in the small spacing between 03:39:022 (10,11) - .

04:09:540 (9) - I liked what you did at 02:21:953 (9) – by changing the rotation of the pattern. I think it'd be nice to do the same thing here and start going clockwise around 04:09:540 (9) - .

04:24:540 (12) – Personally I'd like to have a slight change in flow here since I think the back and forth flow goes on just a little too long. Something like rotating this 90 degrees like http://puu.sh/jGbPk/4ac07d8700.jpg, but it plays fine as is.

04:41:609 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) – Consider doing ctrl + H, I personally like throwing a little diversity in more restful sections, though it plays fine as is.

04:55:129 (3,4) – The distance between these feel a little too big for me. Yah it's a finish, but the song has winded down enough that with this high of a BPM it's just too intense (but again I am scrub and haven't played this).

Good luck!
Topic Starter
Shiro

pinataman wrote:

Hi Shiro. I was lurking in modhelp, and your plot to revolt against the doldrums of the TV size nation inspired me to mod your map. Unfortunately, I'm not good enough at playing to properly test this map, so if my suggestions seem off base I apologize. Also I'm a mapper who likes to prioritize the melody/vocals, so make sure you take that bias into consideration. Hope this helps!

[Map]

00:53:893 (6) – There seems to be some funkiness going on here with the timing. Slow everything around this combo down and see if the stringed instrument feels off to you. The finish hitsound here makes it especially noticeable. Not really sure what to do, so it might just be me being difficult. The flute is off as fuck, yeah, but this is based that weird harp-like instrument, which is properly on time. This won't be a problem to play.

Argument: Change in music is not mapped enough
01:02:298 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - You designate the repetitive music of the high-pitched strings at 00:58:031 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - with a back and forth flow. The low percussion, while similar, is different enough from the strings in pitch that I'd like to see a more meaningful distinction between these two flows to better express the different emotions evoked by the different instruments/sounds (besides making the general motion move down slightly). Perhaps making the general flow also curve (ex: http://puu.sh/jFypH/93b315150d.jpg), though other possibilities exist as well (like doing ctrl + G on each of 01:02:428 (2,4,6,8) – and amend spacing). They are different - the stacks are not so close and the spacing increases a lot more. Also, unlike the strings, the sliders are straight lines.

01:08:764 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) – I think there's enough playfulness in the singer that you can change the flow a little. In particular, at 01:09:022 (2) - , the singer goes “ma-i,” which takes up two syllables, as opposed to what she does at 01:09:410 (4) – by doing only one syllable. So starting the repetition at 01:09:410 (4) – instead could be interesting (ex: http://puu.sh/jFYfL/44bebe2fc8.jpg). The possibility also exists to not use repetition (like maybe http://puu.sh/jFYpw/19b4a6e4b4.jpg), though that seems more of a personal thing since you seem to like to map the repetitive nature of the rhythm. The "i" is clearly not emphasized (hell it's even hard to read), so this works for a patter.

01:18:074 (6,7,8) – consider something like http://puu.sh/jFyBh/67ae827f85.jpg , though it does play fine as is. you didn't see that 01:17:945 (5,6,7,8) - is a square ? o.O

Argument: Change in music is not mapped enough
01:24:540 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) – These strings should feel different from the finishes at 01:23:893 (6) - . Try doing ctrl + J on 01:24:540 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) – and amend the spacing Why ? I'm based on the string instrument, again, not the flute.

01:33:591 (1,4,7) – The ¾ sliders are trying to draw attention to the singer, right? Because if it isn't, then I don't see why to use ¾ when ½ sliders go with the drum more. Drawing attention to the singer though conflicts a little with this pattern. The change in the singer's pitch at 01:34:884 (7) – is a call to break the repetition in the flow and emphasize the singer there. Also, the singer gets syncopated and starts the downbeat at 01:35:272 - , so going with the singer with these ¾ sliders set up a kind of let down when this strong beat doesn't get a click. My suggestion would be to either use ½ sliders here and amend the spacing, or use ¾ sliders until 01:34:884 (7) – where you would change the rhythm and flow to go with the singer. 01:35:402 (1) - This point is actually when the singer's melody changes. 01:35:143 (8) - belongs to the previous phrase.

02:08:375 (4) - These long sliders like 02:05:272 (4) – get their emphasis from the held vocals of the singer, right? If that's the case, then 02:08:375 (4) – is a problem because the singer doesn't get syncopated here. 02:08:246 (3) – is a held vocal, so the following note goes with the downbeat at 02:08:505 – which causes the slider to feel weird repeating something that isn't there. Try going with the rhythm of the singer with a rhythm like http://puu.sh/jG0qY/d0575b6130.jpg , which sets up connecting the flow of the (1) and (2) sliders in some way to emphasize the repeated pitch in the lyrics “to – oh.” nope, it follows the drumline

02:26:867 (9) – The spacing into this feels a little too small. I see the design you're going for, but moving it to the 176, 20 ish area keeps the spirit of the design while not making the pattern so restful. ok

02:39:152 (4) – The rest after this doesn't seem intuitive when the spinner at 02:33:333 (1) – acts as a rest so recently ago. To me, the pacing suggests you emphasize the strings here. I'd like to understand why you think there should be a rest here at all, and if there should be a rest, why not have the rest after 02:43:290 (4) – instead or in addition? Because the song is completely silent for a duration of 3/2.

Argument: Change in music is not mapped enough
02:51:436 (9,10,11,12) – These drums start with too similar of an angled flow as the percussions at 02:49:885 (1,2,3,4) - . Try a more distinct flow like zig-zag or square (ex: http://puu.sh/jFzo7/3dd83f0990.jpg) Did you understand how I made this pattern ? ._.

03:21:178 (1) – This sections seems just a little too restful, so try increasing the spacing into this note. To explain more, you put the wind in my sails with the stream here 03:16:781 (1) - , then immediately take it out. I don't disagree with the rest, I just think you rest too hard. This change emphasizes the flute nicely and gives the player a renewed sense of energy coming off the rest combo of 03:18:850 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - .
03:22:988 (1) – Similar argument/suggestion ^ Because in both cases, the harp-like thing takes the spot and is the main instrument. Flute volume even goes down.
03:24:022 (7) – Around here again, I would give the nod to the flute so that this section doesn't feel too restful (leaving as much as possible of 03:24:281 (8,9,10,11,12) – as a rest in setting up for the stream). But here the rhythm gets a little confusing since the flute isn't perfectly timed at 03:24:152 – (It might go into 1/3, but that just seems weird to play). I'm conflicted because while I do think you should map the flute here (for instance, make a slider at 03:24:152 – or something and increase the spacing leading up to it), I don't want to suggest something stupid like mapping a rhythm that is not timed right. Basically, I don't know what to do. I am using the harp again as a transition between the two streams. If I were to map to the flute this section would be too hard and confuising to play.

03:32:428 (6) – NC to emphasize the guitar/rhythm change? NC on the one before

03:39:281 (11,1) – The distance between these could be bigger to emphasize the downbeat more, especially after the slight rest in the small spacing between 03:39:022 (10,11) - . ok

04:09:540 (9) - I liked what you did at 02:21:953 (9) – by changing the rotation of the pattern. I think it'd be nice to do the same thing here and start going clockwise around 04:09:540 (9) - . I originally wanted to but I'm scared it'd be too hard to read I'll do it anyway but yea. Also adding new combos for a bit more readability.

04:24:540 (12) – Personally I'd like to have a slight change in flow here since I think the back and forth flow goes on just a little too long. Something like rotating this 90 degrees like http://puu.sh/jGbPk/4ac07d8700.jpg, but it plays fine as is. These are meant to make the player wait for the next pattern, as does the pause here 04:27:126 -

04:41:609 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) – Consider doing ctrl + H, I personally like throwing a little diversity in more restful sections, though it plays fine as is. that doesn't go with the structure of the map (check the same part in other kiais)

04:55:129 (3,4) – The distance between these feel a little too big for me. Yah it's a finish, but the song has winded down enough that with this high of a BPM it's just too intense (but again I am scrub and haven't played this). The goal is to make this big so the rest feels smaller =P

Good luck!
Thank you for the mod, I really didn't expect to get any.
Arphimigon
Because this map is awesome, just stuff.

[Angry Goddess]
00:07:816 (11) - Nit pick time but this sounds better ending earlier, perhaps at 00:08:183 -
00:39:281 - Pitch change or something here can be represented by a small shift in the stream
01:01:458 (7) - Inaudible note I can't even hear it on 25% and it doesnt really help gameplay
01:14:324 (7,8,9) - Really awkwarded out by this spacing here not being even like most of the map, any reason to it?
01:26:091 (7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3) - This section was really confusing to me, that first triangle feels way too spaced for that last pattern or uneven, couldnt get my grasp on the exact angling. note 11 should really be lower. Next of all 01:27:126 - there is a clear missed sound and extending 01:27:126 - pretty much makes no sense at least listening on full speed.
01:53:247 (8,10) - Looks bad with the current stack leniency (why not reduce the stack leniency anyway?) and makes this pattern different to how it should be
02:10:057 (2,3,4,5) - Isn't much need for this large of a spacing right here, please reduce to like inbetween 2 to 2.5x, not much strong beats
02:31:457 (4,7) - Annoying stack leniency ruining the look of this combo pls reduce or fix
02:32:815 (15,16,17,18) - Was really hoping for a change in the pattern around here to represent the vocal as well as the instrumental to spice it up, trying to use some horizontal jumps could work at the end.
02:39:022 (3) - This is so close... the last versions of 02:38:764 (2) - had a larger spacing to the next slider and I think it would be logical to space this slider further too
02:51:565 (10) - Move further down because again stacking ruins pattern, move it by 4 pixels down only to 256|211
03:59:971 (3,4,1,2) - My god controlling momentum on this is a pain, cant you change the direction of those back and forths so it isn't a line?
04:10:186 (6,7,8,1) - Wouldn't slider 1 play better being more right following the previous pattern?

Nice
Topic Starter
Shiro

Arphimigon wrote:

Because this map is awesome, just stuff. damn right

[Angry Goddess]
00:07:816 (11) - Nit pick time but this sounds better ending earlier, perhaps at 00:08:183 - resnapped the whole part to make it more accurate to the flute.
00:39:281 - Pitch change or something here can be represented by a small shift in the stream sure, it's a good idea
01:01:458 (7) - Inaudible note I can't even hear it on 25% and it doesnt really help gameplay changed into a slider
01:14:324 (7,8,9) - Really awkwarded out by this spacing here not being even like most of the map, any reason to it? yes, this spacing allows me to have a small emphasis on 01:14:453 (8) - but still alert the player that this is a 1/2 part so the jump 01:14:583 (9,1) - becomes less unexpected
01:26:091 (7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3) - This section was really confusing to me, that first triangle feels way too spaced for that last pattern or uneven, couldnt get my grasp on the exact angling. note 11 should really be lower. Next of all 01:27:126 - there is a clear missed sound and extending 01:27:126 - pretty much makes no sense at least listening on full speed. I actually don't understand what's wrong. The triangle is spaced on the weird big string instrument. The sound you're talking about is very faint to me, but I added a note to fix it.
01:53:247 (8,10) - Looks bad with the current stack leniency (why not reduce the stack leniency anyway?) and makes this pattern different to how it should be fixed
02:10:057 (2,3,4,5) - Isn't much need for this large of a spacing right here, please reduce to like inbetween 2 to 2.5x, not much strong beats needed for how the map is constructed. The high spacing contrasts violently with the empty rhythms (circles 1/1 apart), which is what I want to achieve
02:31:457 (4,7) - Annoying stack leniency ruining the look of this combo pls reduce or fix fixed
02:32:815 (15,16,17,18) - Was really hoping for a change in the pattern around here to represent the vocal as well as the instrumental to spice it up, trying to use some horizontal jumps could work at the end. I keep those changes for the last chorus. I think a change would be too hard here, considering the player is already trying to back-and-forth in a controlled way, I think it'd be easier and more intuitive to keep it going until something resets the movement (the spinner)
02:39:022 (3) - This is so close... the last versions of 02:38:764 (2) - had a larger spacing to the next slider and I think it would be logical to space this slider further too Changed, hopefully this is better
02:51:565 (10) - Move further down because again stacking ruins pattern, move it by 4 pixels down only to 256|211 moved 02:51:824 (12,13,14) - instead
03:59:971 (3,4,1,2) - My god controlling momentum on this is a pain, cant you change the direction of those back and forths so it isn't a line? changed
04:10:186 (6,7,8,1) - Wouldn't slider 1 play better being more right following the previous pattern? Changed its position.

Nice
Thanks for the mod !
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