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JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

Purple wrote:

I actually didn't realize you or jesus1412 constitute TOP PLAYERS that are known for doing AMAZING THINGS in this game like 7-8 stars maps such as this one. IMO, if the QATs need the input of someone else because a map is too hard for them (fair enough), they should seek people that are known to FC maps of similar difficulty, and in this case, that means rrtyui, hvick, DH, WWW, HDHR, thelewa, and a few others. If they can't find anyone who can FC this song and speak english, they have to do the translation work themselves, it's that simple.

What's interesting is that your post essentially confirms a new ranking rule that says that for a map to be ranked, it has to be easy enough for rrtyui (AKA best player) to FC it, which is just completely unnecessary TBH. There's nothing wrong with ranking a map that noone can FC at the moment, the game is for fun to be had, not for pathological perfectionism.
Jesse has FCd Mendes DT (6.92), Native Faith DT (7.32) and almost TearVid DT (6.94). And I have that shitty Airman score l0l. If your argument is that if you are not someone who does not have an FC on a 7* map you can not accurately perceive problems, not only do you invalidate every single one of your posts because you can't FC a 7* map, but you also admit you don't know how difficult this map actually is. This pales in comparison to something like Freedom Dive and Wahrheit DT even though the star ratings are incredibly similar. There's no need to get all upset because I said you can't play this properly and try and put Jesse and I down as people that don't know what we're talking about. Nowhere in my post did I imply anything about this map being impossible to FC, considering that rrt even FCd the previous version of this which was more difficult (although it had a lower star rating) I don't even know why you wrote that because it is already easy enough for him. Also, it's not about 'striving for pathological perfectionism' but moving away from the mentality that is being content with mediocrity.

Bit off topic but whatever, I don't understand how a mapper trying to get something ranked (ESPECIALLY a 7 star map) would be able to cry about 'oppressing creativity' and such. If you're trying to make the map official and the players the map is directed at find flaws with it, you take them heart and change it. You don't refuse them using bullshit explanations as to why your way of doing things is superior and they clearly have no idea what they're talking about. That's just stroking your own ego and if that's the mindset you have, keep your shit in the graveyard. Not that Awaken has done this yet but we'll see.
Broccoly
1,359 posts
Joined May 2012
Broccoly

JappyBabes wrote:

You don't refuse them using bullshit explanations as to why your way of doing things is superior and they clearly have no idea what they're talking about. That's just stroking your own ego and if that's the mindset you have, keep your shit in the graveyard. Not that Awaken has done this yet but we'll see.
^this.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

Purple wrote:

JappyBabes wrote:

Good. That's how it should be when a map like this gets ranked. It's not your typical anime OP with AR9 arbitrarily assigned to it that will fly through qualified without a problem. Maps like these should be scrutinized. The AR change is only one of the suggestions Lust listed. To me, this is more about mapping patterns which don't work well with the AR. There are two scenarios, you change the AR to something slightly higher or you change some of the patterns to be more intuitive. http://puu.sh/giomH/ec2427d303.png The jumps at 820x, although they are technically the hardest part of the map, they still play fine because they fit the AR quite well (not to say it's mapped perfectly, I think it's entirely reasonable to criticize how it focuses on the right side of the screen even though it is not as big of a deal). The QATs are not overreacting, look at the members of QAT. None of them are top players so they do the logical thing. They ask the top players. "Hey, we need some opinions on this map going through qualified as none of us are able to play the highest difficulty, mind helping us out?", and guess what? We all had problems with it. That difficulty isn't for 99% of the people posting in this thread right now, your opinion is honestly not appreciated and is detrimental to ensuring this map is done right. The only posts here I see worth following up on are Tom and GN's. Simple as that. walloftext
I actually didn't realize you or jesus1412 constitute TOP PLAYERS that are known for doing AMAZING THINGS in this game like 7-8 stars maps such as this one. IMO, if the QATs need the input of someone else because a map is too hard for them (fair enough), they should seek people that are known to FC maps of similar difficulty, and in this case, that means rrtyui, hvick, DH, WWW, HDHR, thelewa, and a few others. If they can't find anyone who can FC this song and speak english, they have to do the translation work themselves, it's that simple.

What's interesting is that your post essentially confirms a new ranking rule that says that for a map to be ranked, it has to be easy enough for rrtyui (AKA best player) to FC it, which is just completely unnecessary TBH. There's nothing wrong with ranking a map that noone can FC at the moment, the game is for fun to be had, not for pathological perfectionism.
I actually stated that I don't feel good enough to comment on most of the map but to say that someone who can almost FC airman isn't good enough to pass judgement on this? I agree we should "ask rrtyui or hvick" but they're not interested in discussing it so we're doing the best we can by asking other people.#67 Xytox, #6 isokasapupuja, #41 jappybabes, #28 alumetorz, #178 omgforz, #34 kearnen, how many more do you want?
Last edited by jesse1412 , edited 2 times in total.
semantics
12 posts
Joined June 2013
semantics
ah, so less than 20 combo off an FC of airman completely invalidates his opinion

looking forward to seeing you fc 7star+ nomod maps in the near future :­)
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

Purple wrote:

rachel wrote:

are you actually legitimately flaming a top 50 player for not being considered a "top player" when you're barely in the bottom half of the top 10k yourself

dude almost has a fucking airman fc, is that not good enough for you?
It's not a FC, and he himself knows he's not a top player as I described (yet), if he chooses to feel offended, then really that's not my doing. I do admit I find it surprising to see someone play a map that is way harder to read than this 900+ times and see him complain about pattern readability here. I do want to know the list of people who played this map on behalf of the QAT because I can almost guarantee that the players I mentioned in my previous post wouldn't have had a problem with readability on this map.

Broccoly wrote:

Can you explain how it is objectively worse? Because you think so?
Less challenging? AR should not be used to challenge players; it should be used accordingly to the patterns and to guide players to clearly read what they are hitting.
Even if the AR setting's intent purpose was to accommodate players and improve map readability (I don't agree with that), it's still a matter of preference, some people like AR10 and others prefer lower, and in this one case OP might have chosen something that is not popular among the majority of players and I think the QAT should always respect that decision as long as it's not extreme, like AR8 or something.
if, according to you, someone who has been in the top50 consistently for the past 3 years or so is not good enough to determine if this map plays well or not (which is laughable at it's own). how can you even have the nerves to think that you do?
blahpy
297 posts
Joined November 2013
blahpy

Broccoly wrote:

AR should not be used to challenge players; it should be used accordingly to the patterns and to guide players to clearly read what they are hitting.
Isn't that somewhat ironic? I, an 8k rank trash player, could almost pass the map on its current setting because it's so easy to read (I got past the solo part and choked in the end of the last chorus and failed :( ). On AR10 I don't stand a chance, because only someone really good can read AR10 well.

It's fine how it is. It'd probably be fine as low as AR9 too, but whatever it is now, 9.5 or whatever, is perfectly easy to read.
Last edited by blahpy , edited 1 time in total.
Henri
113 posts
Joined February 2012
Henri
could almost pass the map
Think this explains broccolys point pretty well LMAO, besides i think even if you would have passed it would not have a been a gloriously awesome play.
blahpy
297 posts
Joined November 2013
blahpy

Sotajumala wrote:

could almost pass the map
Think this explains broccolys point pretty well LMAO, besides i think even if you would have passed it would not have a been a gloriously awesome play.
My point is that most people who find the map playable would stand less of a chance on AR10. Changing it to AR10 just because a few people have conditioned themselves to only be able to play AR10 and nothing else is stupid.
Henri
113 posts
Joined February 2012
Henri
"Changing it to AR10 just because a few people have conditioned themselves to only be able to play AR10 and nothing else is stupid."
Youre mistaking being able to play AR10 with playing this map rather on AR10 than a on a lower AR. They are not the same thing.
WubWoofWolf
Former osu! Champion: 2017
112 posts
Joined September 2008
WubWoofWolf
If anyone cares about my opinion I just want to say approach rate should be decided only by map creator without any objections, as he is the one who is making art and it is up to him how it is going to look like. Making it ranked of course needs approval, but as for me good timing and FCable set of notes is all that should be checked. Anything on top of it I consider limiting new horizons.

PS. I love old maps.

woof
thelewa
3,537 posts
Joined August 2010
thelewa
also this map should be AR9
-Aeryn-
26 posts
Joined June 2011
-Aeryn-

Broccoly wrote:

Can you explain how it is objectively worse? Because you think so?
Less challenging? AR should not be used to challenge players; it should be used accordingly to the patterns and to guide players to clearly read what they are hitting.
In that case, AR should be a lot higher on a lot of ranked maps and a lot lower on a lot of other ranked maps. A lot of the basis of HR mod, even, is challenging people to read a very low object density (150-170bpm ar10 anyone?)
Bweh
486 posts
Joined September 2012
Bweh
I doubt there's a "fitting" approach rate for this. It seems like this is being dictated more by the userbase's comfort than any other standard.
Henri
113 posts
Joined February 2012
Henri
In that case, AR should be a lot higher on a lot of ranked maps and a lot lower on a lot of other ranked maps. A lot of the basis of HR mod, even, is challenging people to read a very low object density (150-170bpm ar10 anyone?)
I don't think anyone should conclude the fact the hr exist in thinking what AR they should use..
Koiyuki
Beatmap Nominator
2,571 posts
Joined March 2013
Koiyuki
keep calm and let the mapper answer okey?
Homie
67 posts
Joined September 2013
Homie
ar10 pls
shARPII
osu! Alumni
926 posts
Joined April 2011
shARPII
Thank you guys for giving your opinion on this map.

I would be glad to see good posts which help the mapper, sadly this isn't the case anymore.
I lock this topic for now, we'll reopen it when the mapper will contact me or any QAT/GMT

wee~
peppy
19,320 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Since when was "shitposting" a term in the osu! community?

Surely this isn't so bad we have to lock the thread.

If you guys are complaining about maps getting disqualified, stop playing the qualified maps. They have their own category for a reason.
Avishay
1,250 posts
Joined April 2013
Avishay
I agee that higher AR will feel better, but AR10 will be awkward since there are also relatively slower parts.
Frostmourne
osu! Alumni
3,735 posts
Joined November 2009
Frostmourne
I have restored some posts that could be useful for references in the future.
Let the discussion go on

(I agree with most of top players agree on as a #97)
dornrjqnrdl
36 posts
Joined September 2009
dornrjqnrdl
unranked again??? why ㅜ_ㅜ
KSHR
osu! Alumni
1,668 posts
Joined July 2010
KSHR

dornrjqnrdl wrote:

unranked again??? why ㅜ_ㅜ
If you've not read this yet. p/3927160
Garpo
174 posts
Joined March 2014
Garpo
Even though this isn't helpful to the mapper.

There is a trend with Awaken "super insane diffs" where they get qualified, disqualified over and over until BN had enough and are "satisfied" at the same time the star difficulty.
I MEAN COME ON, The same thing happened to Hanairo Biyori (From 6.11 to 6.48)

Maybe be more careful with qualifying maps? Disqualifying a map that was "hype" qualified just pisses off the community (Oh, just don't play qualified maps) but that isn't a good solution. (Well... the disqualification wasn't because of the that one diff) but it still is affected because new people still mod the diff.
Can we just not repeat this again?
Lach
1,118 posts
Joined November 2012
Lach

Garpo wrote:

Even though this isn't helpful to the mapper.

There is a trend with Awaken "super insane diffs" where they get qualified, disqualified over and over until BN had enough and are "satisfied" at the same time the star difficulty.
I MEAN COME ON, The same thing happened to Hanairo Biyori (From 6.11 to 6.48)

Maybe be more careful with qualifying maps? Disqualifying a map that was "hype" qualified just pisses off the community (Oh, just don't play qualified maps) but that isn't a good solution. (Well... the disqualification wasn't because of the that one diff) but it still is affected because new people still mod the diff.
Can we just not repeat this again?
I partially agree, and also somewhat disagree with your sentiments.

The way I see it, people have no right to be upset about scores being wiped, as this is standard protocol for maps being unqualified, and even unranked before qualified category existed. But, I think they have every right to be upset with the people who rushed it back into qualified. This whole situation could have been avoided in both cases by taking time and gathering opinions from people who are actually competent at this game, thus avoiding multiple unranks. It matters for maps like this especially, because high-end maps are made for high-end players.

Something which is also really bothersome is staff censoring complaints under the guise that they're cluttering up the thread and "shitposting". Nothing pisses people off more than pages going missing into AW when they are simply voicing opinions on the matter at hand.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
od9 at least pls
Sellenite
1,092 posts
Joined September 2013
Sellenite
posts get back,cool
Napkins
143 posts
Joined December 2010
Napkins
Good luck on re-rank! I love your Another Difficulty and can't wait to play it once it gets ranked again! ^ u ^
Best of luck to you!
walao
248 posts
Joined April 2013
walao
now the jumps leading up to the "hardest jumps of the map" are harder :c
Cola
36 posts
Joined September 2011
Cola
Kinda sad that theres so much drama around the qualified thing.
Maybe it would be better to not give out PP for qualified maps while still taking record of score (?)

Anyways i really like the map and hope that you can rank it someday all the way.
But its expected to take multiple tries with a high-difficulty map in the mapset as many people will be aware of it, many people will search for mistakes in the mapset.
OSUjanaiKATSURAda
394 posts
Joined December 2012
OSUjanaiKATSURAda
LOL there is many unqualified BN's & QAT'S ;) Be Smart And Neutral ...
Birdy
5,753 posts
Joined April 2011
Birdy

OSUjanaiKATSURAda wrote:

LOL there is many unqualified BN's & QAT'S ;) Be Smart And Neutral ...
I don't know whether you're insulting the BNG/QAT members or if you simply typed the opposite of what you meant. Either way, you make no sense, and should stop posting.
VINXIS
Featured Artist
3,161 posts
Joined April 2014
VINXIS
02:17:766 (3,4) - ctrl+G and 02:18:039 (1,2) - Ctrl+G for second gonkakorokuu but then the sd will go to 7.07 rip but oh well flow pls

kby
LexiaLovesU
822 posts
Joined June 2012
LexiaLovesU
Guys its enough only post something that is relevant to the map we have heard enough opinions about the AR now it is up to the mapper

On-Topic Once you reply to Lust's mod get like 2-3 more mods and you can call me to give the map a check
Cartographer
94 posts
Joined November 2012
Cartographer
Nice find.

VINXIS wrote:

02:17:766 (3,4) - ctrl+G and 02:18:039 (1,2) - Ctrl+G for second gonkakorokuu but then the sd will go to 7.07 rip but oh well flow pls

kby
In addition to this I fixed the flow and placement of the notes here:
[Second Gonkanau]

02:18:311 (1) to 02:19:402 (7) - Placement and Flow

Download .osz (Run to install my changes as a separate difficulty for viewing)
Download text file


Images
  • 02:18:311 (1) to 02:18:857 (2)


  • 02:18:993 (3) - to 02:19:402 (7)

My Mod
If you need help hit me up.
159,383,138311,6,0,P|96:363|69:283,1,142.5,10|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
152,299,138584,70,0,B|183:259|183:259|228:244|228:244|244:199|279:184,1,178.125
308,260,138857,1,8,0:0:0:0:
95,25,138993,1,2,0:0:0:0:
308,260,139130,1,0,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139266,1,2,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139334,1,0,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139402,2,0,P|417:103|378:118,1,95,10|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:

I'll mod more later, bed time now.
Last edited by Cartographer , edited 18 times in total.
bibilicu
3,578 posts
Joined October 2013
bibilicu

Cartographer wrote:

I like it tbh, why did it get unranked?
LOL
OSUjanaiKATSURAda
394 posts
Joined December 2012
OSUjanaiKATSURAda

Static Noise Bird wrote:

OSUjanaiKATSURAda wrote:

LOL there is many unqualified BN's & QAT'S ;) Be Smart And Neutral ...
I don't know whether you're insulting the BNG/QAT members or if you simply typed the opposite of what you meant. Either way, you make no sense, and should stop posting.
.
ac8129464363
1,566 posts
Joined October 2013
ac8129464363

OSUjanaiKATSURAda wrote:

.
good point, I agree 100%
fanzhen0019
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
1,724 posts
Joined July 2010
fanzhen0019
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
oh wow
Xantaria
274 posts
Joined July 2013
Xantaria
rank HW maps but unrank this ....

most critic is about readability .... and still unreadable 'shitmapping' gets ranked and this perfectly readable map doesn't

Last edited by Xantaria , edited 1 time in total.
ac8129464363
1,566 posts
Joined October 2013
ac8129464363

Zantaria wrote:

rank HW maps but unrank this ....

pls take your memes and get out, unless you'd like to share your logic :>
LexiaLovesU
822 posts
Joined June 2012
LexiaLovesU

Cartographer wrote:

Nice find.

VINXIS wrote:

02:17:766 (3,4) - ctrl+G and 02:18:039 (1,2) - Ctrl+G for second gonkakorokuu but then the sd will go to 7.07 rip but oh well flow pls

kby
Please take a look here, I like what you did and made it better.. I hope. :D

[Second Gonkanau]

02:18:311 (1) to 02:19:402 (7) - Flow

Cartographers mod

My Mod
If you need help hit me up.
159,383,138311,6,0,P|96:363|69:283,1,142.5,10|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
152,299,138584,70,0,B|183:259|183:259|228:244|228:244|244:199|279:184,1,178.125
308,260,138857,1,8,0:0:0:0:
95,25,138993,1,2,0:0:0:0:
308,260,139130,1,0,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139266,1,2,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139334,1,0,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139402,2,0,P|417:103|378:118,1,95,10|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:

I'll mod more later, bed time now.
Yeah that's not modding that's you giving the mapper a code when the mapper doesn't even know what you changed

First suggest what you think could be improved that means use the times along with the reason why your suggestion this and how you think it should be changed. You have to allow the mapper to have the chance to see what you are suggesting not just giving them a code

Don't post anything complaining about the unrank its really not needed anymore
Cartographer
94 posts
Joined November 2012
Cartographer

LexiaLovesU wrote:

Yeah that's not modding that's you giving the mapper a code when the mapper doesn't even know what you changed

First suggest what you think could be improved that means use the times along with the reason why your suggestion this and how you think it should be changed. You have to allow the mapper to have the chance to see what you are suggesting not just giving them a code

Don't post anything complaining about the unrank its really not needed anymore
I have provided images and a download to the mod.

Hopefully it isn't to hard checking things in game quickly and remove it.
The .osz file automatically opens my mod and if they like the changes they just delete and replace a few codes, no work.
Last edited by Cartographer , edited 2 times in total.
Cherry Blossom
3,185 posts
Joined October 2011
Cherry Blossom
uuuh BNs who want to bubble/rank this map should at least know how to play this map or pass.
That will avoid future problems like this....

IMO, AR is not really a problem when you know how to read maps. They are many players who are shiting on maps because the AR is too slow.
I didn't really like playing this map because jumps are forced, i don't really feel anything funny when playing this map. But well it's just my opinion.

I'll mention some flaws, but that's just my opinion, don't consider them as the absolute truth.
  1. When i say that i don't feel anything funny, it's when you don't feel the real impact of the song, you have deliberately increased the difficulty, and added some extra triples which do not follow the song and make this diff even less funnier to play for example 00:23:084 (2,3,4) - or 00:26:970 (5) - etc., and some 1/4 slider jumps too 00:25:948 (5,6) - . Is it overmapping ? not really if you use them sparingly.
  2. 00:25:948 (5,6) - Here, i don't really know what you're following, you skip this note 01:20:902 - which is enough powerful, and i think a clap is supposed to be here too. Before adding more density, make sure that you follow the song first. If you don't do that, patterns can be easily confusing.
  3. 02:05:289 (2,3,4) - This map is not Mythologia's end, unsnapped things you can hear on the song don't mean "awh i'll map streams here", that's a theory which does not make sense.
  4. 02:14:220 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2) - rip.

I disabled hitsounds volume and listened to everything, there are too much density for what the song can provide. There are some 1/4 sliderjumps to emphasize strong vocals, but anything audible on blue ticks where the 1/4 slider ends.
Conclusion, This is overmapped.


Edit : I didn't say that i agree with that disqualification, There are too many maps like this which are ranked (i won't mention them), and i think people have overreacted on this map because "OH MY GOD 7 STARS, FREE PPS FOR RURUCHI SAMA"...
Last edited by Cherry Blossom , edited 1 time in total.
Salamat
60 posts
Joined October 2013
Salamat
I honestly see no problem. BATS and QATs take their jobs too seriously... but I'm not the one to judge if I just want to enjoy a game
Pappy
1,020 posts
Joined August 2013
Pappy

Awaken wrote:

7.08
you should fix the intro ;w;
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
As a lot of people have pointed out, AR9.5 to 10 would be appropriate and fitting for this map, it should be up to the mapper's discretion. The patterns are easy and intuitive to read, even I can play this map somewhat until the spacing because too much for me to hit anything. And as for the most of the notes being on the right side of the screen, this just seem like something based on opinion; personally I like it better than perfect symmetry in a map.

Anyway there was a few things I wanted to point out about Gs Insane. My problem is that the 220 steams, especially when followed up by 1/2 notes, are way too hard compared to the rest of the map.
02:07:334 (7) - I think this circle should be deleted; if you listen carefully, there is no note on the fourth circle on the stream, so I think it should be a triple.

02:12:039 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - I think this should be changed. Other people could give better advice, maybe use use sliders/repeat sliders instead?
Last edited by B1rd , edited 1 time in total.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
.
Ironsoul27
134 posts
Joined January 2014
Ironsoul27
This map has been taken off of ranked so many times now, wtf :C
Ntasuto
286 posts
Joined April 2013
Ntasuto
Second Gonkanau

00:10:539 (4,6) - Not perfectly stacked
00:35:220 (1) - I'd remove the whistles. It covers entirely the actual sound of this part.
00:43:948 (2) - I Believe that this is how this part should be mapped: http://puu.sh/gk35X/8070978374.jpg You skip 3 beats that contribute to the rhythm of the song by adding a slider here.

00:51:039 (3,1) - These should be unstacked . The beat changes here: 00:51:311 - and it doesn't indicate a stack with : 00:51:039 - , and this also messed up the NCing. Will require a small remapping here.
00:51:039 (3,1,2,1,2,1,2,3) -as i said before. NCing here is doesn't match with the rhythm imo . Try starting the NC here: 00:51:039 - and change every 2 notes as you did.Will require some remapping.
00:53:220 (1) - also remove the NC here. unnecessary
01:28:811 - Why skip the beat here? o.O
01:51:039 (3,4,5,1) - This is too much of an . on this bpm and speed its breaking the flow too much .
02:07:334 (4) - Also agree on removing this.
02:13:130 (1) - I believe this should be changed to 1/2 slider + note , like this: http://puu.sh/gk4xz/74801e3f81.jpg Don't forget the clap on slider tail.
02:16:675 - At this point the spacing is increasing incredibly until: 02:18:311 without an obvious reason apart from the "Stars" increase. Song sound the same as before. no volume increase, nothing strong making a hard change. anything :|

02:22:402 (1,2,3,4) - This is not appealing at all. no symmetry or anything , doesn't make sense :S
02:50:220 (1) - This should be extended to 02:50:902 - and a beat should be added here: 02:51:039 - . It fits the the rhythm very much. also add Clap @ 02:51:039 -
03:03:720 (6) - I believe this should be higher to improve the flow on 03:03:857 (1) - coz of the angle it has.


These are my 2 cents.
Aka
1,777 posts
Joined January 2012
Aka
uhg fine, expect testplays and a mod from me, selfreminder
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
something
AR: Tested all from 9.5 to 10. 9.8 felt the most natural of them all. 9.9 may as well be 10 and 10 seems unnecessary.
OD: 9. See no reason for this to be below that considering difficulty of map. Already done.
00:15:311 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - Slightly awkward throughout.
00:18:039 (1,2,3,4) - What is this supposed to be? (1) > awkward triangle (2,3,4)? Can be improved.
00:53:493 (1) - Something like http://puu.sh/gkiul/309a4f8675.png ?
00:57:720 (3) - Closer to (2) pls.
01:55:675 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - Preferred old pattern with triplet > triplet > stream. If not, extreme spacing not required.
02:03:039 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - So awkward.
02:08:902 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4) - One of the patterns that I feel just doesn't work with this AR and is helped greatly by 9.8. Could potentially move 02:08:902 (2) - to the right, stack 02:09:039 (3) - with 02:09:448 (6,7,8) - and move 02:09:720 (9) - up?
02:22:402 (1,2,3,4) - Change again. These don't work as well as previous locations used.
End is fine.
VINXIS
Featured Artist
3,161 posts
Joined April 2014
VINXIS

LexiaLovesU wrote:

Yeah that's not modding that's you giving the mapper a code when the mapper doesn't even know what you changed

First suggest what you think could be improved that means use the times along with the reason why your suggestion this and how you think it should be changed. You have to allow the mapper to have the chance to see what you are suggesting not just giving them a code

Don't post anything complaining about the unrank its really not needed anymore
all i did was give 1 flow mod advice :'c im so r r y wo

i want it ranked again man

nvm i thought u were talking about me rip
Awaken
858 posts
Joined February 2012
Topic Starter
Awaken
ok finally I decide to give this map AR9.6, there won't be much gap between which and previous version (AR9.5).
And someone who thinks 9.5 too low should be able to feel more comfortable now.
Talk with me in-game if you still feel it's not fit enough now and have any other great idea :D
I'll reply mods later and try my best to re-requalify this map soon, thank you guys for supporting!
Doxa
69 posts
Joined November 2013
Doxa

Zantaria wrote:

rank HW maps but unrank this ....
totally agree
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
did the jumps get easier or is this just the effect of 9.5->9.6?
xmbrx
105 posts
Joined January 2014
xmbrx
Love it~! I'll shoot a star *^*
bigfeh
1,148 posts
Joined January 2013
bigfeh
wkyikawa's Couple Extra
00:01:130 (1,3) - Even though the sliders are correctly timed to the song's beat, the kick actually happens a 1/2 note before, and it makes the sliders feel very awkward
00:03:311 (1,3) - ^ Same
00:03:311 (4) - Same, but starts before the kick instead
00:06:584 (2) - Starts and ends in desync with the song's kick, same problem
00:08:766 (1) - This note is a tad bit late. Throw the speed down to 25% and you'll hear it crystal clear

That's all I have for now, but the map's pretty solid. I'll keep playing and see if there's anything else
Yales
827 posts
Joined February 2013
Yales
Second Gonkanau

00:57:857 (1) - I believe it should be a finish N:C2 as you did here 01:52:402 (1) - and 03:04:402 (1) - here.

Oh and I agree that more you push the AR up better it will be. But it's doable anyway

No kd xD

Good luck ... >< Good luck ... ><
Purple
467 posts
Joined May 2011
Purple

silmarilen wrote:

if, according to you, someone who has been in the top50 consistently for the past 3 years or so is not good enough to determine if this map plays well or not (which is laughable at it's own). how can you even have the nerves to think that you do?
I never said I had the qualifications to say whether a map plays well or not, I'm just saying that maps shouldn't get de-ranked for non-technical stuff. I know now the names of at least some of the top PP players involved in play-testing this map, and I wont go into detail but I will say that I think it's a really bad idea to have non-QAT players decide the fate of a map. I retract my previous sentence where I said rrtyui and others should be contacted instead; in reality, no one should be.

Really, only QAT members should be involved. It's possible to tell whether a map is OK for ranking without having to get 97% accuracy on it, I mean, we have had harder stuff ranked like Airman, Atama no Taisou and that one MLP song ranked and there were no long-lasting controversies that followed. The philosophy that maps should play fair for the players is one I agree with, but for god sakes, this map doesn't even have a single flow-break in it... I played this map and I couldn't find any crazy artistry in it like I find in hanzer's maps, just very wide jumps and not much else.

This is a high-profile map, so let's not make the ranking process appear like a incoherent mess towards prospective mappers please. To me, that's the whole crux of the issue.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

Purple wrote:

I never said I had the qualifications to say whether a map plays well or not, I'm just saying that maps shouldn't get de-ranked for non-technical stuff. I know now the names of at least some of the top PP players involved in play-testing this map, and I wont go into detail but I will say that I think it's a really bad idea to have non-QAT players decide the fate of a map. I retract my previous sentence where I said rrtyui and others should be contacted instead; in reality, no one should be.

Really, only QAT members should be involved. It's possible to tell whether a map is OK for ranking without having to get 97% accuracy on it, I mean, we have had harder stuff ranked like Airman, Atama no Taisou and that one MLP song ranked and there were no long-lasting controversies that followed. The philosophy that maps should play fair for the players is one I agree with, but for god sakes, this map doesn't even have a single flow-break in it... I played this map and I couldn't find any crazy artistry in it like I find in hanzer's maps, just very wide jumps and not much else.

This is a high-profile map, so let's not make the ranking process appear like a incoherent mess towards prospective mappers please. To me, that's the whole crux of the issue.
I think there is a strong argument to be made which would put AR:note density as something that is considered 'technical' with there being a correct ratio. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this map had a lower AR than 9.5 (9.3, I think?) and wasn't quite 7 stars but still difficult and it played fine. Throughout all the remappings this has been through, the patterns have gotten more awkward and the AR hasn't scaled along well with it.

Assuming anyone who is not a QAT is incapable of judging a map is equally as wrong as saying you can fully comprehend how a map plays out from the editor. There is nothing wrong with getting opinions from the target demographic of the map, especially considering how small of a group it is. I wouldn't be able to trust that the QAT did the job as well as they could if not one of their members could play the map and they did not reach out to those who could. So many mods are small things like hitsounding or snapping and that's really only half of it. It doesn't matter how technically sound a map is if it plays like absolute shit. Bringing in old maps that wouldn't be able to make it through the ranking system nowadays does not make for a strong argument. Airman is not even comparable to Pony Girl or Atama, it has simpler patterns with a higher AR.

EDIT: @Awaken, you really don't need to keep the star rating over 7 by randomly increasing the spacing every time you nerf a pattern.
Last edited by JappyBabes , edited 1 time in total.
nooblet
630 posts
Joined December 2011
nooblet
i am hater
Patjoo
1 post
Joined November 2013
Patjoo
I just read through this song for the first time, albeit with Relax since I'm not cool enough to play songs this hard, and as far as the patterns and AR go I didn't really see any glaring problems. I got about 98% accuracy with only a few random notes missed because, again, I'm not cool enough to do this flawlessly. What's the big argument over the map itself now? I don't really see anything wrong with it at the AR I just played it at, 9.6, and none of the patterns look -bad- so much as just difficult, but none of the rhythms seemed hard to read because of the AR or timing..
Am I missing something? Or are we all just arguing over the validity of opinions still with no real regard to the map?

tl;dr I'm not very qualified but the map seems fine to me, what's wrong with it?
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
Okay so I played this map and (to my surprise) fairly comfortably passed, even though I miserably failed at several points of the maps (I'll talk about it later). I don't think this should be this easy to pass, and someone like me shouldn't be able to. I'd suggest to raise the HP drain a lot, probably to at least 8. This has no incidence on star rating, but I think it would make the map less forgiving and more interesting.

This map was fun. Really really hard, but fun.

I just have a few things to point out. In general, I dislike the use of 1/4 in this, which I find unintuitive (it might be me misreading or being unable to play this BPM, but I thought I'd give you this feedback). Talking about the hardest diff:

00:53:493 (1,2) - 00:57:857 (1,2) - 01:48:039 (1,2) - 01:51:584 (2,3) - 01:52:402 (1,2) - 03:02:493 (2,3) - for every pattern like this, although I understand what you're doing with the 3/4, I think a single 1/1 slider would play better. There's barely any 3/4 in the entire diff and I find them quite surprising and fairly annoying to play
01:01:130 (1) - 03:07:675 (1) - Those slowdowns always screwed me over because I didn't expect them, I think you should give those sliders a special shape to try to make them stand out more
01:14:220 (1,3) - 02:04:948 (1,2) - really really dislike this, you do not need this kind of gimmick in this map. The whole map is quite easy to read, so this stands out in a bad way
01:48:993 (1,2,3) - 01:51:175 (4,5,1) - 02:01:266 (2,3,4) - for the sake of consistency with the rest of the map and of movement, I think you should stack them and leave the unstacked streams to longer ones, this was surprising in the middle of the jumps (01:55:811 (2,3,4) - you can leave this one unstacked, as it goes with the following stream)
02:04:948 (1,2,3,4,1) - this was really confusing, I thought the slider ended on a blue tick and the stream started on the white one which is what I read from the spacing, I think you should keep the spacing consistent on that stream to avoid that kind of misreadings
02:06:720 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - I completely failed on that stream, the movement is really weird and unintuitive, I can't think of anything off the top of my head but I think you should change this to make it play better
02:12:584 (1,2,3,4) - too big D:
02:14:220 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,1) - if this is what the map was unranked for I disagree, I SS'd this part and I didn't find it too difficult even though my aim is absolutely atrocious, it plays well and the patterns are intuitive enough, if anything the 1/4 sliderjumps through the map should be nerfed, but not the jump sections like this
02:22:402 (1,2,3,4) - this really really really needs to be nerfed
03:00:039 (1,2) - 03:04:402 (1,2) - make this 3/4+circle circle or 1/1+circle if you fixed my suggestion above for consistency !

My personal opinions on the map are that it's overmapped (yes) but it's not detrimental to it. The 1/4 jumps however feel overdone and I think they should be nerfed. Definitely a map I would find myself playing again, especially for the practice value.

Good luck getting this reranked, it's a decently fun map, I'm not too fond of the way it's made (inconsistencies and lack of structure but it's your choice) but it's definitely worth playing. Don't kd this, it's just an unorganize thoughts dump.
VINXIS
Featured Artist
3,161 posts
Joined April 2014
VINXIS
yo those 1/4 sliders at the beginning got no chill lol I'd recommend changing them imo doesn't fit the song well honestly but that is ur choice

00:12:584 (4,5,6) - and 00:22:948 (1,2,3) - and e.t.c.

ur choice i honestly dont think they fit but ya don't give me kd omfg
Ciao
39 posts
Joined May 2013
Ciao

VINXIS wrote:

yo those 1/4 sliders at the beginning got no chill lol I'd recommend changing them imo doesn't fit the song well honestly but that is ur choice

00:12:584 (4,5,6) - and 00:22:948 (1,2,3) - and e.t.c.

ur choice i honestly dont think they fit but ya don't give me kd omfg

so thirsty smh
Kayano
1,289 posts
Joined July 2011
Kayano
Mapper didn't reply to my irc chat, well then I just leave some suggestions here

2015-03-04 21:01 OniJAM: 肯啊
2015-03-04 21:01 OniJAM: 你觉得这个怎么样
2015-03-04 21:01 OniJAM: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2848121
2015-03-04 21:01 OniJAM: (其实我挺喜欢你原来那个摆法的
2015-03-04 21:03 OniJAM: 还有02:21:720 - 02:21:993 - 02:22:266 - 加上whistle听起来很不错 可以试试
2015-03-04 21:04 OniJAM: 如果把后面的蓝线也加上也挺好
01:51:857 - 01:52:130 - 01:52:266 - I guess you missed whistle here
03:11:902 (5) - 03:12:175 (2) - maybe whistles here

No kd. Good luck!
Yerba
1 post
Joined April 2014
Yerba
I just LOVE this song <3
Start
289 posts
Joined December 2012
Start

Purple wrote:

I actually didn't realize you or jesus1412 constitute TOP PLAYERS that are known for doing AMAZING THINGS in this game like 7-8 stars maps such as this one. IMO, if the QATs need the input of someone else because a map is too hard for them (fair enough), they should seek people that are known to FC maps of similar difficulty, and in this case, that means rrtyui, hvick, DH, WWW, HDHR, thelewa, and a few others. If they can't find anyone who can FC this song and speak english, they have to do the translation work themselves, it's that simple.

What's interesting is that your post essentially confirms a new ranking rule that says that for a map to be ranked, it has to be easy enough for rrtyui (AKA best player) to FC it, which is just completely unnecessary TBH. There's nothing wrong with ranking a map that noone can FC at the moment, the game is for fun to be had, not for pathological perfectionism.
Strongly agree with you, OSU is losing it's fun of many challenging map being DQ, players can rarely find new hard maps instead of playing Japanese style + DT (or whatever + DT) ←decreasing passion quickly, because way too many similar jumps short streams etc. And I insists that top players have most of discourse right to hardest maps

Also I like to use AR9 in this map which makes the map more fun, eventhough I can't easily read them. But OSU has already too many High AR maps (HR and DT)
Horo
214 posts
Joined July 2011
Horo
I think there gets to be a point where something can be over-modded. I don't mean too many problems are fixed, just too many small changes to patterns that don't need fixing that ruins the flow of a map.

I don't think nit-picking patterns, especially in a very very hard difficulty, is a thing to do. Most BATs/QATs aren't even good enough to play the patterns like the top ranking players will anyway so I don't get it. There are like 6 difficulties, this being the hardest one. It's FCable even before the nerfing that's been done, don't you think that's enough? This isn't even a controversial map.

Maybe I'm just stupid, I really don't look at the modding system much. Just my two cents. I don't get why the uber difficulties catch so much shit, who fucking cares if there are a couple hard but fun maps that are ranked? It's a challenge to combo on them, new players can play the lower diffs.
Extaru
26 posts
Joined June 2014
Extaru

Horo wrote:

Maybe I'm just stupid, I really don't look at the modding system much. Just my two cents. I don't get why the uber difficulties catch so much shit, who fucking cares if there are a couple hard but fun maps that are ranked? It's a challenge to combo on them, new players can play the lower diffs.
^

The people that can play the hardest diffs are the ones who spend the most time on the game, so why can't we rank more hard maps for them with looser requirements .-.
Last edited by Extaru , edited 4 times in total.
vaporlol
19 posts
Joined July 2013
vaporlol
i have absolutely no idea about mapping, but for me it feels like the map gets worse with each update :(
Cherry Blossom
3,185 posts
Joined October 2011
Cherry Blossom

vaporlol wrote:

i have absolutely no idea about mapping, but for me it feels like the map gets worse with each update :(

JappyBabes wrote:

Awaken, you really don't need to keep the star rating over 7 by randomly increasing the spacing every time you nerf a pattern.
Please, Awaken, stop destroying the whole map by changing some parts which were fine. Like 01:56:084 (5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - or 02:04:539 (4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,1,2) - too.
You don't need to do this, you're not reasonable.
Broodich
11 posts
Joined March 2013
Broodich
just make this ar9, cs 2.5 or 3 and jumps/spacing 10% longer so ppl that like ar9 can just nomod it and ppl that like ar10 can hr it and aim wont be that much of a problem cuz of cs

thats my opinion :P
Broccoly
1,359 posts
Joined May 2012
Broccoly

Cherry Blossom wrote:

vaporlol wrote:

i have absolutely no idea about mapping, but for me it feels like the map gets worse with each update :(

JappyBabes wrote:

Awaken, you really don't need to keep the star rating over 7 by randomly increasing the spacing every time you nerf a pattern.
Please, Awaken, stop destroying the whole map by changing some parts which were fine. Like 01:56:084 (5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - or 02:04:539 (4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,1,2) - too.
You don't need to do this, you're not reasonable.
Awaken can't just give up 7 stars cuz it looks fancy eh
Awaken
858 posts
Joined February 2012
Topic Starter
Awaken
IVE DECRESED THE JUMPS DONT BE SO ANXIOUS OK？

Please , This is NOT the final version, I didn't even reply to Lust , please CAN YOU BE PATIENT ?

Hope you can respect me
LexiaLovesU
822 posts
Joined June 2012
LexiaLovesU
Guys seriously stop harassing the mapper He hasn't replied to any of the mods yet so please don't start questioning everything he is doing wait till he is done :/
Jeder
58 posts
Joined November 2014
Jeder

Awaken wrote:

IVE DECRESED THE JUMPS DONT BE SO ANXIOUS OK？

Please , This is NOT the final version, I didn't even reply to Lust , please CAN YOU BE PATIENT ?

Hope you can respect me
So it's reason why map got unranked again, yes? :/
-Atri-
3,049 posts
Joined March 2013
-Atri-
Oh c'mon QATs, if you rerank and unrank and rerank over and all over again, then why RANK THIS MAP IN FIRST PLACE? This just wasting players try to get #1 this map (not to mention mapper need to ask BATs to bubble and rank it again)
Last edited by -Atri- , edited 1 time in total.
Yuudachi-kun
5,434 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
If the mapper really wants it ranked, he can just remove second gonkaku.
monomosc
52 posts
Joined January 2013
monomosc

Kheldragar wrote:

If the mapper really wants it ranked, he can just remove second gonkaku.

If you really want attention that much, you could post pics of you naked



Just trying to show this person how pointless his post is. The last 20 pages of this thread are about this diff only
Cherry Blossom
3,185 posts
Joined October 2011
Cherry Blossom
*sigh*
Why people keep posting useless things which do not help the mapper ?
Everybody knows that people are crying because this map is disqualified, we know it, and we don't need more non-constructive comments.

Btw Awaken, don't feel harassed, and just tell us what you're doing. That will avoid future problems so there should be more communication. If you need help from an experienced modder and player. I can help you.
Sacredheal
4 posts
Joined September 2014
Sacredheal
RANK THIS SHIT PEPPY RIGHT NOW! MOST AMAZING SONG EVER
lit120
3,272 posts
Joined August 2013
lit120
I think someone needs to lock this thread for a while due to a conflict like this
-Deity-
20 posts
Joined April 2013
-Deity-
Rename Second Gonkanau to Second Hanairo Biyori :^)
Infevo
463 posts
Joined October 2014
Infevo

LexiaLovesU wrote:

Guys seriously stop harassing the mapper He hasn't replied to any of the mods yet so please don't start questioning everything he is doing wait till he is done :/
No offense but if anyone harrasses the mapper it is those who go dq a second time.

To avoid this kind of drama in the future I have a simple suggestion to make.

1. Don't qualify a map unless you are very certain it can get ranked in its current state. (Apparently it is not enough to have top players fc a 7 star map after some tries which shows it is possible with a certain level of skill.)
2. If the particular map needs minor tweaks to get ranked you can still qualify it after negotiation of terms the mapper has to meet.
3. Only if the mapper agrees to set terms but doesn't eventually meet them the map can get dqed once qualified duration is due.
4. This particular map is not allowed to get qualified ever again unless the mapper provides reasonable explanation why the terms couldn't be met.

Now, please refrain from telling me this won't help the mapper. This actually might help all future ranking processes.
Crystal
Former osu!catch Champion: 2018
1,123 posts
Joined June 2012
Crystal

-Deity- wrote:

Rename Second Gonkanau to Second Hanairo Biyori :^)
DeletedUser_3641262
DeletedUser_3641262
Just wanted to say that I really appreciate the fact that you keep updating the map and not giving up despite all of the "shitstorming" in this thread. I have absolutely no idea in mapping or modding and I can barely pass SG with relax, but I feel that it's very well done and original. Keep up the great work :D !
(and the other difficulties are really darn fun as well :3 )
Night XII
5 posts
Joined April 2014
Night XII

Kheldragar wrote:

If the mapper really wants it ranked, he can just remove second gonkaku.
Second Gonkaku is actually the best diff the mapset has... Anyway, when a mapper love a map, he only wants minimal changes, he don't want his own creation destroyed. Pushing him to do something he don't wanna do won't help.

Anyway, I love Second Gonkaku the way it is now, even thought I can't pass the map... Man, this map difficulty is different from a lot of maps out there... We should have some maps with diffs like Kanuko - Toumei Elegy [Second Gonkaku]...
Chloe
1,162 posts
Joined April 2011
Chloe
我怎么没看到unrank的点 这图都能被un 那我的图还能活?
Frim4503
2,067 posts
Joined July 2013
Frim4503
please stop your pointless posting and wait for the mapper respones
this map will get ranked someday
if you can't posting uselful things which help the mapper,
all you can do is waiting
L o L i
L o L i
祝早日ranked
conTime
101 posts
Joined June 2014
conTime
只能说这是麻婆爆发后的力量么
好歌推荐
Second Gonkanau难度的跳只能望着笑笑
祝早日重rank
Haganenno
247 posts
Joined July 2014
Haganenno
Nice map! However, could you slap a HP4 on it? If I am not mistaken, HP doesn't change the PP gained and easy HP drain makes this map easier for bad players. It doesn't influence the good players and helps making this map more fun for the noobies such as me. I think that low HP is what makes Airman also so popular between pretty much everybody below 30k
Churcheell
62 posts
Joined April 2013
Churcheell

Haganenno wrote:

Nice map! However, could you slap a HP4 on it? If I am not mistaken, HP doesn't change the PP gained and easy HP drain makes this map easier for bad players. It doesn't influence the good players and helps making this map more fun for the noobies such as me. I think that low HP is what makes Airman also so popular between pretty much everybody below 30k
Disagree
Midge
476 posts
Joined December 2012
Midge
If you can't beat it with the hp it has now, you're not ready for it.
Keichi-kun
35 posts
Joined May 2013
Keichi-kun
HP7 would be funnier
Chocolat
140 posts
Joined March 2013
Chocolat

Haganenno wrote:

Nice map! However, could you slap a HP4 on it? If I am not mistaken, HP doesn't change the PP gained and easy HP drain makes this map easier for bad players. It doesn't influence the good players and helps making this map more fun for the noobies such as me. I think that low HP is what makes Airman also so popular between pretty much everybody below 30k
No. The map in my opinion is already fine as it is. Changing the HP drain takes away part of the challenging aspect.

Honestly, if you can't play it the way it is, you just aren't ready for the map like Midge said.
Awaken
858 posts
Joined February 2012
Topic Starter
Awaken
Sorry keichi-kunchan orz, gave kd for mistake

@cb i'm working on changing some patterns to different ones, hope it wouldn't be that bad
Awaken
858 posts
Joined February 2012
Topic Starter
Awaken
and i prefer hp5 :)
conTime
101 posts
Joined June 2014
conTime
寄awa麻婆：
Second Gonkanau难度的某些滑条跳可否缩短距离
因为我手速不能去到那么远
而且单点跳部分能否换成滑条（因为部分图我都是单点后滑条miss
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