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Konuko - Toumei Elegy

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Lach

Garpo wrote:

Even though this isn't helpful to the mapper.

There is a trend with Awaken "super insane diffs" where they get qualified, disqualified over and over until BN had enough and are "satisfied" at the same time the star difficulty.
I MEAN COME ON, The same thing happened to Hanairo Biyori (From 6.11 to 6.48)

Maybe be more careful with qualifying maps? Disqualifying a map that was "hype" qualified just pisses off the community (Oh, just don't play qualified maps) but that isn't a good solution. (Well... the disqualification wasn't because of the that one diff) but it still is affected because new people still mod the diff.
Can we just not repeat this again?
I partially agree, and also somewhat disagree with your sentiments.

The way I see it, people have no right to be upset about scores being wiped, as this is standard protocol for maps being unqualified, and even unranked before qualified category existed. But, I think they have every right to be upset with the people who rushed it back into qualified. This whole situation could have been avoided in both cases by taking time and gathering opinions from people who are actually competent at this game, thus avoiding multiple unranks. It matters for maps like this especially, because high-end maps are made for high-end players.

Something which is also really bothersome is staff censoring complaints under the guise that they're cluttering up the thread and "shitposting". Nothing pisses people off more than pages going missing into AW when they are simply voicing opinions on the matter at hand.
JappyBabes
od9 at least pls
Sellenite
posts get back,cool
Napkins
Good luck on re-rank! I love your Another Difficulty and can't wait to play it once it gets ranked again! ^ u ^
Best of luck to you!
walao
now the jumps leading up to the "hardest jumps of the map" are harder :c
Cola
Kinda sad that theres so much drama around the qualified thing.
Maybe it would be better to not give out PP for qualified maps while still taking record of score (?)

Anyways i really like the map and hope that you can rank it someday all the way.
But its expected to take multiple tries with a high-difficulty map in the mapset as many people will be aware of it, many people will search for mistakes in the mapset.
OSUjanaiKATSURAda
LOL there is many unqualified BN's & QAT'S ;) Be Smart And Neutral ...
Birdy

OSUjanaiKATSURAda wrote:

LOL there is many unqualified BN's & QAT'S ;) Be Smart And Neutral ...
I don't know whether you're insulting the BNG/QAT members or if you simply typed the opposite of what you meant. Either way, you make no sense, and should stop posting.
VINXIS
02:17:766 (3,4) - ctrl+G and 02:18:039 (1,2) - Ctrl+G for second gonkakorokuu but then the sd will go to 7.07 rip but oh well flow pls

kby
LexiaLovesU
Guys its enough only post something that is relevant to the map we have heard enough opinions about the AR now it is up to the mapper

On-Topic Once you reply to Lust's mod get like 2-3 more mods and you can call me to give the map a check
Cartographer
Nice find.

VINXIS wrote:

02:17:766 (3,4) - ctrl+G and 02:18:039 (1,2) - Ctrl+G for second gonkakorokuu but then the sd will go to 7.07 rip but oh well flow pls

kby
In addition to this I fixed the flow and placement of the notes here:
[Second Gonkanau]

02:18:311 (1) to 02:19:402 (7) - Placement and Flow

Download .osz (Run to install my changes as a separate difficulty for viewing)
Download text file


Images
  • 02:18:311 (1) to 02:18:857 (2)


  • 02:18:993 (3) - to 02:19:402 (7)

My Mod
If you need help hit me up.
159,383,138311,6,0,P|96:363|69:283,1,142.5,10|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
152,299,138584,70,0,B|183:259|183:259|228:244|228:244|244:199|279:184,1,178.125
308,260,138857,1,8,0:0:0:0:
95,25,138993,1,2,0:0:0:0:
308,260,139130,1,0,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139266,1,2,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139334,1,0,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139402,2,0,P|417:103|378:118,1,95,10|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:

I'll mod more later, bed time now.
meii18

Cartographer wrote:

I like it tbh, why did it get unranked?
LOL
OSUjanaiKATSURAda

Static Noise Bird wrote:

OSUjanaiKATSURAda wrote:

LOL there is many unqualified BN's & QAT'S ;) Be Smart And Neutral ...
I don't know whether you're insulting the BNG/QAT members or if you simply typed the opposite of what you meant. Either way, you make no sense, and should stop posting.
.
ac8129464363

OSUjanaiKATSURAda wrote:

.
good point, I agree 100%
fanzhen0019
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
oh wow
Xantaria
rank HW maps but unrank this ....

most critic is about readability .... and still unreadable 'shitmapping' gets ranked and this perfectly readable map doesn't

ac8129464363

Zantaria wrote:

rank HW maps but unrank this ....

pls take your memes and get out, unless you'd like to share your logic :>
LexiaLovesU

Cartographer wrote:

Nice find.

VINXIS wrote:

02:17:766 (3,4) - ctrl+G and 02:18:039 (1,2) - Ctrl+G for second gonkakorokuu but then the sd will go to 7.07 rip but oh well flow pls

kby
Please take a look here, I like what you did and made it better.. I hope. :D

[Second Gonkanau]

02:18:311 (1) to 02:19:402 (7) - Flow

Cartographers mod

My Mod
If you need help hit me up.
159,383,138311,6,0,P|96:363|69:283,1,142.5,10|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
152,299,138584,70,0,B|183:259|183:259|228:244|228:244|244:199|279:184,1,178.125
308,260,138857,1,8,0:0:0:0:
95,25,138993,1,2,0:0:0:0:
308,260,139130,1,0,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139266,1,2,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139334,1,0,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139402,2,0,P|417:103|378:118,1,95,10|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:

I'll mod more later, bed time now.
Yeah that's not modding that's you giving the mapper a code when the mapper doesn't even know what you changed

First suggest what you think could be improved that means use the times along with the reason why your suggestion this and how you think it should be changed. You have to allow the mapper to have the chance to see what you are suggesting not just giving them a code

Don't post anything complaining about the unrank its really not needed anymore
Cartographer

LexiaLovesU wrote:

Yeah that's not modding that's you giving the mapper a code when the mapper doesn't even know what you changed

First suggest what you think could be improved that means use the times along with the reason why your suggestion this and how you think it should be changed. You have to allow the mapper to have the chance to see what you are suggesting not just giving them a code

Don't post anything complaining about the unrank its really not needed anymore
I have provided images and a download to the mod.

Hopefully it isn't to hard checking things in game quickly and remove it.
The .osz file automatically opens my mod and if they like the changes they just delete and replace a few codes, no work.
Cherry Blossom
uuuh BNs who want to bubble/rank this map should at least know how to play this map or pass.
That will avoid future problems like this....

IMO, AR is not really a problem when you know how to read maps. They are many players who are shiting on maps because the AR is too slow.
I didn't really like playing this map because jumps are forced, i don't really feel anything funny when playing this map. But well it's just my opinion.

I'll mention some flaws, but that's just my opinion, don't consider them as the absolute truth.
  1. When i say that i don't feel anything funny, it's when you don't feel the real impact of the song, you have deliberately increased the difficulty, and added some extra triples which do not follow the song and make this diff even less funnier to play for example 00:23:084 (2,3,4) - or 00:26:970 (5) - etc., and some 1/4 slider jumps too 00:25:948 (5,6) - . Is it overmapping ? not really if you use them sparingly.
  2. 00:25:948 (5,6) - Here, i don't really know what you're following, you skip this note 01:20:902 - which is enough powerful, and i think a clap is supposed to be here too. Before adding more density, make sure that you follow the song first. If you don't do that, patterns can be easily confusing.
  3. 02:05:289 (2,3,4) - This map is not Mythologia's end, unsnapped things you can hear on the song don't mean "awh i'll map streams here", that's a theory which does not make sense.
  4. 02:14:220 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2) - rip.

I disabled hitsounds volume and listened to everything, there are too much density for what the song can provide. There are some 1/4 sliderjumps to emphasize strong vocals, but anything audible on blue ticks where the 1/4 slider ends.
Conclusion, This is overmapped.


Edit : I didn't say that i agree with that disqualification, There are too many maps like this which are ranked (i won't mention them), and i think people have overreacted on this map because "OH MY GOD 7 STARS, FREE PPS FOR RURUCHI SAMA"...
Salamat
I honestly see no problem. BATS and QATs take their jobs too seriously... but I'm not the one to judge if I just want to enjoy a game
Pappy

Awaken wrote:

7.08
you should fix the intro ;w;
B1rd
As a lot of people have pointed out, AR9.5 to 10 would be appropriate and fitting for this map, it should be up to the mapper's discretion. The patterns are easy and intuitive to read, even I can play this map somewhat until the spacing because too much for me to hit anything. And as for the most of the notes being on the right side of the screen, this just seem like something based on opinion; personally I like it better than perfect symmetry in a map.

Anyway there was a few things I wanted to point out about Gs Insane. My problem is that the 220 steams, especially when followed up by 1/2 notes, are way too hard compared to the rest of the map.
02:07:334 (7) - I think this circle should be deleted; if you listen carefully, there is no note on the fourth circle on the stream, so I think it should be a triple.

02:12:039 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - I think this should be changed. Other people could give better advice, maybe use use sliders/repeat sliders instead?
B1rd
.
Ironsoul27
This map has been taken off of ranked so many times now, wtf :C
Ntasuto
Second Gonkanau

00:10:539 (4,6) - Not perfectly stacked
00:35:220 (1) - I'd remove the whistles. It covers entirely the actual sound of this part.
00:43:948 (2) - I Believe that this is how this part should be mapped: http://puu.sh/gk35X/8070978374.jpg You skip 3 beats that contribute to the rhythm of the song by adding a slider here.

00:51:039 (3,1) - These should be unstacked . The beat changes here: 00:51:311 - and it doesn't indicate a stack with : 00:51:039 - , and this also messed up the NCing. Will require a small remapping here.
00:51:039 (3,1,2,1,2,1,2,3) -as i said before. NCing here is doesn't match with the rhythm imo . Try starting the NC here: 00:51:039 - and change every 2 notes as you did.Will require some remapping.
00:53:220 (1) - also remove the NC here. unnecessary
01:28:811 - Why skip the beat here? o.O
01:51:039 (3,4,5,1) - This is too much of an . on this bpm and speed its breaking the flow too much .
02:07:334 (4) - Also agree on removing this.
02:13:130 (1) - I believe this should be changed to 1/2 slider + note , like this: http://puu.sh/gk4xz/74801e3f81.jpg Don't forget the clap on slider tail.
02:16:675 - At this point the spacing is increasing incredibly until: 02:18:311 without an obvious reason apart from the "Stars" increase. Song sound the same as before. no volume increase, nothing strong making a hard change. anything :|

02:22:402 (1,2,3,4) - This is not appealing at all. no symmetry or anything , doesn't make sense :S
02:50:220 (1) - This should be extended to 02:50:902 - and a beat should be added here: 02:51:039 - . It fits the the rhythm very much. also add Clap @ 02:51:039 -
03:03:720 (6) - I believe this should be higher to improve the flow on 03:03:857 (1) - coz of the angle it has.


These are my 2 cents.
Aka
uhg fine, expect testplays and a mod from me, selfreminder
JappyBabes
something
AR: Tested all from 9.5 to 10. 9.8 felt the most natural of them all. 9.9 may as well be 10 and 10 seems unnecessary.
OD: 9. See no reason for this to be below that considering difficulty of map. Already done.
00:15:311 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - Slightly awkward throughout.
00:18:039 (1,2,3,4) - What is this supposed to be? (1) > awkward triangle (2,3,4)? Can be improved.
00:53:493 (1) - Something like http://puu.sh/gkiul/309a4f8675.png ?
00:57:720 (3) - Closer to (2) pls.
01:55:675 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - Preferred old pattern with triplet > triplet > stream. If not, extreme spacing not required.
02:03:039 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - So awkward.
02:08:902 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4) - One of the patterns that I feel just doesn't work with this AR and is helped greatly by 9.8. Could potentially move 02:08:902 (2) - to the right, stack 02:09:039 (3) - with 02:09:448 (6,7,8) - and move 02:09:720 (9) - up?
02:22:402 (1,2,3,4) - Change again. These don't work as well as previous locations used.
End is fine.
VINXIS

LexiaLovesU wrote:

Yeah that's not modding that's you giving the mapper a code when the mapper doesn't even know what you changed

First suggest what you think could be improved that means use the times along with the reason why your suggestion this and how you think it should be changed. You have to allow the mapper to have the chance to see what you are suggesting not just giving them a code

Don't post anything complaining about the unrank its really not needed anymore
all i did was give 1 flow mod advice :'c im so r r y wo

i want it ranked again man


nvm i thought u were talking about me rip
Topic Starter
Awaken
ok finally I decide to give this map AR9.6, there won't be much gap between which and previous version (AR9.5).
And someone who thinks 9.5 too low should be able to feel more comfortable now.
Talk with me in-game if you still feel it's not fit enough now and have any other great idea :D
I'll reply mods later and try my best to re-requalify this map soon, thank you guys for supporting!
Doxa

Zantaria wrote:

rank HW maps but unrank this ....
totally agree
buny
did the jumps get easier or is this just the effect of 9.5->9.6?
xmbrx
Love it~! I'll shoot a star *^*
bigfeh
wkyikawa's Couple Extra
00:01:130 (1,3) - Even though the sliders are correctly timed to the song's beat, the kick actually happens a 1/2 note before, and it makes the sliders feel very awkward
00:03:311 (1,3) - ^ Same
00:03:311 (4) - Same, but starts before the kick instead
00:06:584 (2) - Starts and ends in desync with the song's kick, same problem
00:08:766 (1) - This note is a tad bit late. Throw the speed down to 25% and you'll hear it crystal clear

That's all I have for now, but the map's pretty solid. I'll keep playing and see if there's anything else
Saoji
Second Gonkanau

00:57:857 (1) - I believe it should be a finish N:C2 as you did here 01:52:402 (1) - and 03:04:402 (1) - here.

Oh and I agree that more you push the AR up better it will be. But it's doable anyway

No kd xD

Good luck ... >< Good luck ... ><
Purple

silmarilen wrote:

if, according to you, someone who has been in the top50 consistently for the past 3 years or so is not good enough to determine if this map plays well or not (which is laughable at it's own). how can you even have the nerves to think that you do?
I never said I had the qualifications to say whether a map plays well or not, I'm just saying that maps shouldn't get de-ranked for non-technical stuff. I know now the names of at least some of the top PP players involved in play-testing this map, and I wont go into detail but I will say that I think it's a really bad idea to have non-QAT players decide the fate of a map. I retract my previous sentence where I said rrtyui and others should be contacted instead; in reality, no one should be.

Really, only QAT members should be involved. It's possible to tell whether a map is OK for ranking without having to get 97% accuracy on it, I mean, we have had harder stuff ranked like Airman, Atama no Taisou and that one MLP song ranked and there were no long-lasting controversies that followed. The philosophy that maps should play fair for the players is one I agree with, but for god sakes, this map doesn't even have a single flow-break in it... I played this map and I couldn't find any crazy artistry in it like I find in hanzer's maps, just very wide jumps and not much else.

This is a high-profile map, so let's not make the ranking process appear like a incoherent mess towards prospective mappers please. To me, that's the whole crux of the issue.
JappyBabes

Purple wrote:

I never said I had the qualifications to say whether a map plays well or not, I'm just saying that maps shouldn't get de-ranked for non-technical stuff. I know now the names of at least some of the top PP players involved in play-testing this map, and I wont go into detail but I will say that I think it's a really bad idea to have non-QAT players decide the fate of a map. I retract my previous sentence where I said rrtyui and others should be contacted instead; in reality, no one should be.

Really, only QAT members should be involved. It's possible to tell whether a map is OK for ranking without having to get 97% accuracy on it, I mean, we have had harder stuff ranked like Airman, Atama no Taisou and that one MLP song ranked and there were no long-lasting controversies that followed. The philosophy that maps should play fair for the players is one I agree with, but for god sakes, this map doesn't even have a single flow-break in it... I played this map and I couldn't find any crazy artistry in it like I find in hanzer's maps, just very wide jumps and not much else.

This is a high-profile map, so let's not make the ranking process appear like a incoherent mess towards prospective mappers please. To me, that's the whole crux of the issue.
I think there is a strong argument to be made which would put AR:note density as something that is considered 'technical' with there being a correct ratio. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this map had a lower AR than 9.5 (9.3, I think?) and wasn't quite 7 stars but still difficult and it played fine. Throughout all the remappings this has been through, the patterns have gotten more awkward and the AR hasn't scaled along well with it.

Assuming anyone who is not a QAT is incapable of judging a map is equally as wrong as saying you can fully comprehend how a map plays out from the editor. There is nothing wrong with getting opinions from the target demographic of the map, especially considering how small of a group it is. I wouldn't be able to trust that the QAT did the job as well as they could if not one of their members could play the map and they did not reach out to those who could. So many mods are small things like hitsounding or snapping and that's really only half of it. It doesn't matter how technically sound a map is if it plays like absolute shit. Bringing in old maps that wouldn't be able to make it through the ranking system nowadays does not make for a strong argument. Airman is not even comparable to Pony Girl or Atama, it has simpler patterns with a higher AR.

EDIT: @Awaken, you really don't need to keep the star rating over 7 by randomly increasing the spacing every time you nerf a pattern.
nooblet
i am hater
Patjoo
I just read through this song for the first time, albeit with Relax since I'm not cool enough to play songs this hard, and as far as the patterns and AR go I didn't really see any glaring problems. I got about 98% accuracy with only a few random notes missed because, again, I'm not cool enough to do this flawlessly. What's the big argument over the map itself now? I don't really see anything wrong with it at the AR I just played it at, 9.6, and none of the patterns look -bad- so much as just difficult, but none of the rhythms seemed hard to read because of the AR or timing..
Am I missing something? Or are we all just arguing over the validity of opinions still with no real regard to the map?

tl;dr I'm not very qualified but the map seems fine to me, what's wrong with it?
Shiro
Okay so I played this map and (to my surprise) fairly comfortably passed, even though I miserably failed at several points of the maps (I'll talk about it later). I don't think this should be this easy to pass, and someone like me shouldn't be able to. I'd suggest to raise the HP drain a lot, probably to at least 8. This has no incidence on star rating, but I think it would make the map less forgiving and more interesting.

This map was fun. Really really hard, but fun.

I just have a few things to point out. In general, I dislike the use of 1/4 in this, which I find unintuitive (it might be me misreading or being unable to play this BPM, but I thought I'd give you this feedback). Talking about the hardest diff:

00:53:493 (1,2) - 00:57:857 (1,2) - 01:48:039 (1,2) - 01:51:584 (2,3) - 01:52:402 (1,2) - 03:02:493 (2,3) - for every pattern like this, although I understand what you're doing with the 3/4, I think a single 1/1 slider would play better. There's barely any 3/4 in the entire diff and I find them quite surprising and fairly annoying to play
01:01:130 (1) - 03:07:675 (1) - Those slowdowns always screwed me over because I didn't expect them, I think you should give those sliders a special shape to try to make them stand out more
01:14:220 (1,3) - 02:04:948 (1,2) - really really dislike this, you do not need this kind of gimmick in this map. The whole map is quite easy to read, so this stands out in a bad way
01:48:993 (1,2,3) - 01:51:175 (4,5,1) - 02:01:266 (2,3,4) - for the sake of consistency with the rest of the map and of movement, I think you should stack them and leave the unstacked streams to longer ones, this was surprising in the middle of the jumps (01:55:811 (2,3,4) - you can leave this one unstacked, as it goes with the following stream)
02:04:948 (1,2,3,4,1) - this was really confusing, I thought the slider ended on a blue tick and the stream started on the white one which is what I read from the spacing, I think you should keep the spacing consistent on that stream to avoid that kind of misreadings
02:06:720 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - I completely failed on that stream, the movement is really weird and unintuitive, I can't think of anything off the top of my head but I think you should change this to make it play better
02:12:584 (1,2,3,4) - too big D:
02:14:220 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,1) - if this is what the map was unranked for I disagree, I SS'd this part and I didn't find it too difficult even though my aim is absolutely atrocious, it plays well and the patterns are intuitive enough, if anything the 1/4 sliderjumps through the map should be nerfed, but not the jump sections like this
02:22:402 (1,2,3,4) - this really really really needs to be nerfed
03:00:039 (1,2) - 03:04:402 (1,2) - make this 3/4+circle circle or 1/1+circle if you fixed my suggestion above for consistency !

My personal opinions on the map are that it's overmapped (yes) but it's not detrimental to it. The 1/4 jumps however feel overdone and I think they should be nerfed. Definitely a map I would find myself playing again, especially for the practice value.

Good luck getting this reranked, it's a decently fun map, I'm not too fond of the way it's made (inconsistencies and lack of structure but it's your choice) but it's definitely worth playing. Don't kd this, it's just an unorganize thoughts dump.
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