hp5 can avoid failing during the easy part, as well as making the map itself HRable. (refering to Mendes)
23:18 Mei: 我想下狗了想下狗哇,正確的打開方式是不幹活
23:18 Mei: 那随便了
-Chata- wrote:
what's that mean in Gonkanau?
2015-02-23 19:15 pishifat: while you're on that map 01:22:948 (2) - should have the same hitsound as 00:28:402 (1) -No Dap wrote:
wkyikawa's Couple Extra
Second Gonkanau
01:22:948
pretty sure this whistle is placed wrongly
but too late /o/
gratz
sionKotori wrote:
-Chata- wrote:
what's that mean in Gonkanau?
I don't think it's that hard to read, well it can be changed like this:jesus1412 wrote:
[Second Gonkanau]
01:56:561 (2,3,4,1) - This overlap is god damn disgusting to read. Fix pls.
yoloStealth B2 wrote:
why 7.03 -> 7.08?
AR9.5 is never lowBroccoly wrote:
jumps are hard because AR 9.5 is low for x7.0 jumps at BPM 220; should've used AR 10 imo
Broccoly wrote:
jumps are hard because AR 9.5 is low for x7.0 jumps at BPM 220; should've used AR 10 imo
Slong150 wrote:
Second Gonkanau difficulty beats Freedom dive (FOUR DIMENSIONS) by 0,01 star :O
The new most difficult ranked map in osu?!
tag4's are no longer 'ranked'FrcV wrote:
Slong150 wrote:
Second Gonkanau difficulty beats Freedom dive (FOUR DIMENSIONS) by 0,01 star :O
The new most difficult ranked map in osu?!
If we´re talking about star rating, Owen wa Kanojo Nanoka is 11+ stars
TAG 4 maps do not count towards PP.FrcV wrote:
Slong150 wrote:
Second Gonkanau difficulty beats Freedom dive (FOUR DIMENSIONS) by 0,01 star :O
The new most difficult ranked map in osu?!
If we´re talking about star rating, Owen wa Kanojo Nanoka is 11+ stars
RogerGumpyyy wrote:
yes
I think you're confusing "ranked" and "give pp".Riince wrote:
tag4's are no longer 'ranked'
that is, they have scoreboard, but exist outside the ranking system.
prolly means ranking as in global player rankblahpy wrote:
I think you're confusing "ranked" and "give pp".Riince wrote:
tag4's are no longer 'ranked'
that is, they have scoreboard, but exist outside the ranking system.
i'm almost sure tag4 isnt rankable anymoreblahpy wrote:
I think you're confusing "ranked" and "give pp".Riince wrote:
tag4's are no longer 'ranked'
that is, they have scoreboard, but exist outside the ranking system.
I actually disagree. Personally I find the AR fits very well. In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order. Again, just my personal opinion. :pLust wrote:
According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
I completely agree, raising the ar is unnecessaryTom94 wrote:
I actually disagree. Personally I find the AR fits very well. In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order. Again, just my personal opinion. :pLust wrote:
According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
^thisTom94 wrote:
In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order.
Tom94 wrote:I think the opinion of players who are actually able to get a good play on this diff (like 97%+) have an opinion of higher value, and it seems that those players agree that the approach rate should be higher. Thats why I also think that the current ar (9.5) probably is too low.
Lust wrote:
According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
I actually disagree. Personally I find the AR fits very well. In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order. Again, just my personal opinion. :p
I completely agree, raising the ar is unnecessary
I was one of the testers, even if my opinion wasn't heavily considered. But I can tell you EZ has nothing to do with this. http://puu.sh/gifRW/36e4733e0e.jpgBrazzers wrote:
Your testers can't read medium object density then? I wanna see any of them clearing hard (3.5*) diffs with EZLust wrote:
[*]According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
what? that's ridiculous. AR10 is not going to work on this map at all and increasing it to 9.7 is just going to be a pointless change.Lust wrote:
According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
AgreeTom94 wrote:
I actually disagree. Personally I find the AR fits very well. In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order. Again, just my personal opinion. :pLust wrote:
According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
If someone is calling AR9.7 too low, then they need to learn to read.It's not about someone being able to read certain ar better than some other ar, It's about a certain ar fitting a diff better than some other ar..
I disagree. Did you actually try it? AR10 makes it so much easier to read the cross-screen jumps. I mean, I don't understand why the mapper is hesitating to use AR10 when the map is already 7 stars, BPM of 220, and using x6.0-x7.0 distance jumps. I FC'd the hardest part in the second try with AR10, and I really do believe there are players like me who find the AR as the only obstacle that is preventing them from FCing. I doubt that there are people who cannot read AR10 at the skill-level where the diff was aimed to be played at. This isn't 2012 when AR10 was thought as a taboo. The mapper obviously thinks that the song deserves such extreme jumps, and yes it fits well; however, then, why not use an extreme AR? If the AR is kept at 9.5, the mapper is making the same mistake of rainbow dash, pluto, or trigger happy. I really hope you make the wise choice.-GN wrote:
what? that's ridiculous. AR10 is not going to work on this map at all and increasing it to 9.7 is just going to be a pointless change.Lust wrote:
According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
Lust wrote:
02:17:493 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - focuses too heavily on the right side of the screen. More movement around the playfield will allow for a more enjoyable pattern.
Good. That's how it should be when a map like this gets ranked. It's not your typical anime OP with AR9 arbitrarily assigned to it that will fly through qualified without a problem. Maps like these should be scrutinized. The AR change is only one of the suggestions Lust listed. To me, this is more about mapping patterns which don't work well with the AR. There are two scenarios, you change the AR to something slightly higher or you change some of the patterns to be more intuitive. http://puu.sh/giomH/ec2427d303.png The jumps at 820x, although they are technically the hardest part of the map, they still play fine because they fit the AR quite well (not to say it's mapped perfectly, I think it's entirely reasonable to criticize how it focuses on the right side of the screen even though it is not as big of a deal). The QATs are not overreacting, look at the members of QAT. None of them are top players so they do the logical thing. They ask the top players. "Hey, we need some opinions on this map going through qualified as none of us are able to play the highest difficulty, mind helping us out?", and guess what? We all had problems with it. That difficulty isn't for 99% of the people posting in this thread right now, your opinion is honestly not appreciated and is detrimental to ensuring this map is done right. The only posts here I see worth following up on are Tom and GN's. Simple as that. walloftextPurple wrote:
The only reason I can find for this nonsense is that the QAT/BAT's are having some serious mental breakdowns concerning the number 7, like omg SEVEN STARS, WHAAAT THATS CRAZY, so they are all nervous and anxious about it for god knows what reason and have to compensate by making sure the map is even easier to read than it already is.
I also disagree strongly. The AR is completely fine and raising it would make the map objectively worse to play and less challenging and fun.Tom94 wrote:
I actually disagree. Personally I find the AR fits very well. In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order. Again, just my personal opinion. :pLust wrote:
According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
We know this is not mania so the AR being too high for the calmer part is a problem with no real solution.LexiaLovesU wrote:
AR 9.7 fits best with the map and it also makes calmer part of the map not look awful with it.
It's not too extreme, but simply maxing out the AR as high as reasonable people can react for every single map removes a lot of depth from the mapSotajumala wrote:
We know this is not mania so the AR being too high for the calmer part is a problem with no real solution.LexiaLovesU wrote:
AR 9.7 fits best with the map and it also makes calmer part of the map not look awful with it.
Sure it might be true but what can you do? If you make it lower the hard parts will be too low AR..
I'd rather have the hard parts with correct AR than the calm parts with correct AR, if it means one part of the map being in uncomfortable to read regardless of the AR used. (and in this case I do not think AR10 would cause said problems at all)
Quite frankly i do not understand why this is'nt an easy simple decicion, taking into consideration there are no higher star rating maps ranked so i don't understand how anyone would question AR10 being too high.
Every top 500 player can play even higher AR than 10 and feel comfortable with it, so AR10 doesn't seem too extreme from in any aspect for this diff..
It's not too extreme, but simply maxing out the AR as high as reasonable people can react for every single map removes a lot of depth from the mapIm not saying the AR should be as high as possible, I'm saying that I think AR10 is the best AR for this diff.
I actually didn't realize you or jesus1412 constitute TOP PLAYERS that are known for doing AMAZING THINGS in this game like 7-8 stars maps such as this one. IMO, if the QATs need the input of someone else because a map is too hard for them (fair enough), they should seek people that are known to FC maps of similar difficulty, and in this case, that means rrtyui, hvick, DH, WWW, HDHR, thelewa, and a few others. If they can't find anyone who can FC this song and speak english, they have to do the translation work themselves, it's that simple.JappyBabes wrote:
Good. That's how it should be when a map like this gets ranked. It's not your typical anime OP with AR9 arbitrarily assigned to it that will fly through qualified without a problem. Maps like these should be scrutinized. The AR change is only one of the suggestions Lust listed. To me, this is more about mapping patterns which don't work well with the AR. There are two scenarios, you change the AR to something slightly higher or you change some of the patterns to be more intuitive. http://puu.sh/giomH/ec2427d303.png The jumps at 820x, although they are technically the hardest part of the map, they still play fine because they fit the AR quite well (not to say it's mapped perfectly, I think it's entirely reasonable to criticize how it focuses on the right side of the screen even though it is not as big of a deal). The QATs are not overreacting, look at the members of QAT. None of them are top players so they do the logical thing. They ask the top players. "Hey, we need some opinions on this map going through qualified as none of us are able to play the highest difficulty, mind helping us out?", and guess what? We all had problems with it. That difficulty isn't for 99% of the people posting in this thread right now, your opinion is honestly not appreciated and is detrimental to ensuring this map is done right. The only posts here I see worth following up on are Tom and GN's. Simple as that. walloftextPurple wrote:
The only reason I can find for this nonsense is that the QAT/BAT's are having some serious mental breakdowns concerning the number 7, like omg SEVEN STARS, WHAAAT THATS CRAZY, so they are all nervous and anxious about it for god knows what reason and have to compensate by making sure the map is even easier to read than it already is.
I think 9.3 is the best AR for second gonkanau but i can see why some would want to play it at 9 or approaching 10 (i'm just too bad to read it well at ar9)Sotajumala wrote:
It's not too extreme, but simply maxing out the AR as high as reasonable people can react for every single map removes a lot of depth from the mapIm not saying the AR should be as high as possible, I'm saying that I think AR10 is the best AR for this diff.
Can you explain how it is objectively worse? Because you think so?-Aeryn- wrote:
I also disagree strongly. The AR is completely fine and raising it would make the map objectively worse to play and less challenging and fun.
Can we not digress?Kheldragar wrote:
There's no such thing as fun in Osu.
Can you explain how it is objectively worse? Because you think so?Insactly, AR is chosen for the map, not the players.
Less challenging? AR should not be used to challenge players; it should be used accordingly to the patterns and to guide players to clearly read what they are hitting.
It's just sad, why don't you just rank the map and let people have fun with it. Some of the top FC it and those who can't need to try harder. It's that simple.Lust wrote:
- According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
This is based on personal opinion, I think it is good as it is and it is fun to play even though I can't pass it. And why increasing the AR just to make it easier to FC for a handful of people. Those who are able to FC this map I guess are in the top 200 and those players should be able to read lower AR without problems. And if not they gotta learn it. It doesn't justify the unrank in my opinion.- 02:14:220 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - After internal discussion and various testplays, we have come to the conclusion that this section has not been lowered in difficulty the way we were hoping. Lowering the spacing is still recommended. Also, we believe that the patterns can be made a lot more intuitive.
Recommend? So it's optional and doesn't justify the unrank too. I know the section is hard, but it is fun. The map and the section is already very good (at least compared to other maps getting ranked nowadays) and doesn't really need to be "more intuitive" while risking it to be less fun or different at all.- 02:17:493 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - focuses too heavily on the right side of the screen. More movement around the playfield will allow for a more enjoyable pattern.
Wow, too much circles at the right, I could almost start crying. Seriously... This is a slight drift to the right for a few seconds. That doesn't justify a unrank at all and it looks like you were desperately searching for small flaws to justify it. Is the map now unrankable because of that? That's how the map is, it's not less fun or less FCable because of that.- 01:56:220 (7,2) - This overlap (as mentioned by jesus1412 and pointed out in various testplays) has been known to cause readability issues. Please try to avoid this.
Have seen way worse in recently ranked maps.
Jesse has FCd Mendes DT (6.92), Native Faith DT (7.32) and almost TearVid DT (6.94). And I have that shitty Airman score l0l. If your argument is that if you are not someone who does not have an FC on a 7* map you can not accurately perceive problems, not only do you invalidate every single one of your posts because you can't FC a 7* map, but you also admit you don't know how difficult this map actually is. This pales in comparison to something like Freedom Dive and Wahrheit DT even though the star ratings are incredibly similar. There's no need to get all upset because I said you can't play this properly and try and put Jesse and I down as people that don't know what we're talking about. Nowhere in my post did I imply anything about this map being impossible to FC, considering that rrt even FCd the previous version of this which was more difficult (although it had a lower star rating) I don't even know why you wrote that because it is already easy enough for him. Also, it's not about 'striving for pathological perfectionism' but moving away from the mentality that is being content with mediocrity.Purple wrote:
I actually didn't realize you or jesus1412 constitute TOP PLAYERS that are known for doing AMAZING THINGS in this game like 7-8 stars maps such as this one. IMO, if the QATs need the input of someone else because a map is too hard for them (fair enough), they should seek people that are known to FC maps of similar difficulty, and in this case, that means rrtyui, hvick, DH, WWW, HDHR, thelewa, and a few others. If they can't find anyone who can FC this song and speak english, they have to do the translation work themselves, it's that simple.
What's interesting is that your post essentially confirms a new ranking rule that says that for a map to be ranked, it has to be easy enough for rrtyui (AKA best player) to FC it, which is just completely unnecessary TBH. There's nothing wrong with ranking a map that noone can FC at the moment, the game is for fun to be had, not for pathological perfectionism.
^this.JappyBabes wrote:
You don't refuse them using bullshit explanations as to why your way of doing things is superior and they clearly have no idea what they're talking about. That's just stroking your own ego and if that's the mindset you have, keep your shit in the graveyard. Not that Awaken has done this yet but we'll see.
I actually stated that I don't feel good enough to comment on most of the map but to say that someone who can almost FC airman isn't good enough to pass judgement on this? I agree we should "ask rrtyui or hvick" but they're not interested in discussing it so we're doing the best we can by asking other people.#67 Xytox, #6 isokasapupuja, #41 jappybabes, #28 alumetorz, #178 omgforz, #34 kearnen, how many more do you want?Purple wrote:
I actually didn't realize you or jesus1412 constitute TOP PLAYERS that are known for doing AMAZING THINGS in this game like 7-8 stars maps such as this one. IMO, if the QATs need the input of someone else because a map is too hard for them (fair enough), they should seek people that are known to FC maps of similar difficulty, and in this case, that means rrtyui, hvick, DH, WWW, HDHR, thelewa, and a few others. If they can't find anyone who can FC this song and speak english, they have to do the translation work themselves, it's that simple.JappyBabes wrote:
Good. That's how it should be when a map like this gets ranked. It's not your typical anime OP with AR9 arbitrarily assigned to it that will fly through qualified without a problem. Maps like these should be scrutinized. The AR change is only one of the suggestions Lust listed. To me, this is more about mapping patterns which don't work well with the AR. There are two scenarios, you change the AR to something slightly higher or you change some of the patterns to be more intuitive. http://puu.sh/giomH/ec2427d303.png The jumps at 820x, although they are technically the hardest part of the map, they still play fine because they fit the AR quite well (not to say it's mapped perfectly, I think it's entirely reasonable to criticize how it focuses on the right side of the screen even though it is not as big of a deal). The QATs are not overreacting, look at the members of QAT. None of them are top players so they do the logical thing. They ask the top players. "Hey, we need some opinions on this map going through qualified as none of us are able to play the highest difficulty, mind helping us out?", and guess what? We all had problems with it. That difficulty isn't for 99% of the people posting in this thread right now, your opinion is honestly not appreciated and is detrimental to ensuring this map is done right. The only posts here I see worth following up on are Tom and GN's. Simple as that. walloftext
What's interesting is that your post essentially confirms a new ranking rule that says that for a map to be ranked, it has to be easy enough for rrtyui (AKA best player) to FC it, which is just completely unnecessary TBH. There's nothing wrong with ranking a map that noone can FC at the moment, the game is for fun to be had, not for pathological perfectionism.
if, according to you, someone who has been in the top50 consistently for the past 3 years or so is not good enough to determine if this map plays well or not (which is laughable at it's own). how can you even have the nerves to think that you do?Purple wrote:
It's not a FC, and he himself knows he's not a top player as I described (yet), if he chooses to feel offended, then really that's not my doing. I do admit I find it surprising to see someone play a map that is way harder to read than this 900+ times and see him complain about pattern readability here. I do want to know the list of people who played this map on behalf of the QAT because I can almost guarantee that the players I mentioned in my previous post wouldn't have had a problem with readability on this map.rachel wrote:
are you actually legitimately flaming a top 50 player for not being considered a "top player" when you're barely in the bottom half of the top 10k yourself
dude almost has a fucking airman fc, is that not good enough for you?Even if the AR setting's intent purpose was to accommodate players and improve map readability (I don't agree with that), it's still a matter of preference, some people like AR10 and others prefer lower, and in this one case OP might have chosen something that is not popular among the majority of players and I think the QAT should always respect that decision as long as it's not extreme, like AR8 or something.Broccoly wrote:
Can you explain how it is objectively worse? Because you think so?
Less challenging? AR should not be used to challenge players; it should be used accordingly to the patterns and to guide players to clearly read what they are hitting.
Isn't that somewhat ironic? I, an 8k rank trash player, could almost pass the map on its current setting because it's so easy to read (I got past the solo part and choked in the end of the last chorus and failed ). On AR10 I don't stand a chance, because only someone really good can read AR10 well.Broccoly wrote:
AR should not be used to challenge players; it should be used accordingly to the patterns and to guide players to clearly read what they are hitting.
could almost pass the mapThink this explains broccolys point pretty well LMAO, besides i think even if you would have passed it would not have a been a gloriously awesome play.
My point is that most people who find the map playable would stand less of a chance on AR10. Changing it to AR10 just because a few people have conditioned themselves to only be able to play AR10 and nothing else is stupid.Sotajumala wrote:
could almost pass the mapThink this explains broccolys point pretty well LMAO, besides i think even if you would have passed it would not have a been a gloriously awesome play.
"Changing it to AR10 just because a few people have conditioned themselves to only be able to play AR10 and nothing else is stupid."Youre mistaking being able to play AR10 with playing this map rather on AR10 than a on a lower AR. They are not the same thing.
In that case, AR should be a lot higher on a lot of ranked maps and a lot lower on a lot of other ranked maps. A lot of the basis of HR mod, even, is challenging people to read a very low object density (150-170bpm ar10 anyone?)Broccoly wrote:
Can you explain how it is objectively worse? Because you think so?
Less challenging? AR should not be used to challenge players; it should be used accordingly to the patterns and to guide players to clearly read what they are hitting.
In that case, AR should be a lot higher on a lot of ranked maps and a lot lower on a lot of other ranked maps. A lot of the basis of HR mod, even, is challenging people to read a very low object density (150-170bpm ar10 anyone?)I don't think anyone should conclude the fact the hr exist in thinking what AR they should use..