1. According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
2. 02:14:220 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - After internal discussion and various testplays, we have come to the conclusion that this section has not been lowered in difficulty the way we were hoping. Lowering the spacing is still recommended. Also, we believe that the patterns can be made a lot more intuitive. 02:17:493 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - focuses too heavily on the right side of the screen. More movement around the playfield will allow for a more enjoyable pattern.
3. 01:56:220 (7,2) - This overlap (as mentioned by jesus1412 and pointed out in various testplays) has been known to cause readability issues. Please try to avoid this.

1. 00:10:402 (3,4,5,6) - The back and forth down and up motion is a bit too fast and awkward for the play. Suggestions have said that unstacking 00:10:811 (6) - and moving it to another location would be pretty beneficial
2. 00:18:039 (1,2,3,4) - Same issue as above, players have said moving 00:18:448 (4) - to another location for a more oval flow works a lot better
3. 00:53:493 (1,2,3,1) - The slider movement is quite fast and also flows downward to 00:54:039 (1) - and back up to 00:53:902 (3) - . The confusion stems from moving to 00:53:902 (3) - and then down to 00:54:039 (1) - , which can be hard to read with the AR
4. 01:50:766 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Another pattern that can benefit from an oval flowing triangle, the change in directions seems to cause some issues. Here is an example that works rather well: http://puu.sh/ggXZH/a5fc78f88e.jpg
5. 02:04:130 (1,2,3,4,5) - You have a pattern flowing in one direction, then changes rather abruptly from 02:04:675 (5,6) - . This, followed by 02:04:948 (1) - coming downwards made the whole play either confusing or weird to handle appropriately. A more clear, smooth flowing pattern going around would be more beneficial for the play you wish to create here
6. 02:09:857 (1,2,3,4) - The angle to the triplet plays out strangely, a less harsh angle of approach would be preferred

Lust wrote:

According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward

Tom94 wrote:

Lust wrote:

According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward

I actually disagree. Personally I find the AR fits very well. In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order. Again, just my personal opinion. :p

Tom94 wrote:

In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order.

Tom94 wrote:
Lust wrote:
According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward


I actually disagree. Personally I find the AR fits very well. In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order. Again, just my personal opinion. :p


I completely agree, raising the ar is unnecessary

Brazzers wrote:

Lust wrote:

[*]According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward

Your testers can't read medium object density then? I wanna see any of them clearing hard (3.5*) diffs with EZ

Lust wrote:

According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward

Tom94 wrote:

Lust wrote:

According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward

I actually disagree. Personally I find the AR fits very well. In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order. Again, just my personal opinion. :p

If someone is calling AR9.7 too low, then they need to learn to read.

-GN wrote:

Lust wrote:

According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward

what? that's ridiculous. AR10 is not going to work on this map at all and increasing it to 9.7 is just going to be a pointless change.

Lust wrote:

02:17:493 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - focuses too heavily on the right side of the screen. More movement around the playfield will allow for a more enjoyable pattern.

Purple wrote:

The only reason I can find for this nonsense is that the QAT/BAT's are having some serious mental breakdowns concerning the number 7, like omg SEVEN STARS, WHAAAT THATS CRAZY, so they are all nervous and anxious about it for god knows what reason and have to compensate by making sure the map is even easier to read than it already is.

Tom94 wrote:

Lust wrote:

According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward

I actually disagree. Personally I find the AR fits very well. In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order. Again, just my personal opinion. :p

LexiaLovesU wrote:

AR 9.7 fits best with the map and it also makes calmer part of the map not look awful with it.

Sotajumala wrote:

LexiaLovesU wrote:

AR 9.7 fits best with the map and it also makes calmer part of the map not look awful with it.

We know this is not mania so the AR being too high for the calmer part is a problem with no real solution.
Sure it might be true but what can you do? If you make it lower the hard parts will be too low AR..
I'd rather have the hard parts with correct AR than the calm parts with correct AR, if it means one part of the map being in uncomfortable to read regardless of the AR used. (and in this case I do not think AR10 would cause said problems at all)

Quite frankly i do not understand why this is'nt an easy simple decicion, taking into consideration there are no higher star rating maps ranked so i don't understand how anyone would question AR10 being too high.
Every top 500 player can play even higher AR than 10 and feel comfortable with it, so AR10 doesn't seem too extreme from in any aspect for this diff..

It's not too extreme, but simply maxing out the AR as high as reasonable people can react for every single map removes a lot of depth from the map

JappyBabes wrote:

Purple wrote:

The only reason I can find for this nonsense is that the QAT/BAT's are having some serious mental breakdowns concerning the number 7, like omg SEVEN STARS, WHAAAT THATS CRAZY, so they are all nervous and anxious about it for god knows what reason and have to compensate by making sure the map is even easier to read than it already is.

Good. That's how it should be when a map like this gets ranked. It's not your typical anime OP with AR9 arbitrarily assigned to it that will fly through qualified without a problem. Maps like these should be scrutinized. The AR change is only one of the suggestions Lust listed. To me, this is more about mapping patterns which don't work well with the AR. There are two scenarios, you change the AR to something slightly higher or you change some of the patterns to be more intuitive. http://puu.sh/giomH/ec2427d303.png The jumps at 820x, although they are technically the hardest part of the map, they still play fine because they fit the AR quite well (not to say it's mapped perfectly, I think it's entirely reasonable to criticize how it focuses on the right side of the screen even though it is not as big of a deal). The QATs are not overreacting, look at the members of QAT. None of them are top players so they do the logical thing. They ask the top players. "Hey, we need some opinions on this map going through qualified as none of us are able to play the highest difficulty, mind helping us out?", and guess what? We all had problems with it. That difficulty isn't for 99% of the people posting in this thread right now, your opinion is honestly not appreciated and is detrimental to ensuring this map is done right. The only posts here I see worth following up on are Tom and GN's. Simple as that. walloftext

Sotajumala wrote:

It's not too extreme, but simply maxing out the AR as high as reasonable people can react for every single map removes a lot of depth from the map

Im not saying the AR should be as high as possible, I'm saying that I think AR10 is the best AR for this diff.

-Aeryn- wrote:

I also disagree strongly. The AR is completely fine and raising it would make the map objectively worse to play and less challenging and fun.

Kheldragar wrote:

There's no such thing as fun in Osu.

Can you explain how it is objectively worse? Because you think so?
Less challenging? AR should not be used to challenge players; it should be used accordingly to the patterns and to guide players to clearly read what they are hitting.

Lust wrote:

1. According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
   This is based on personal opinion, I think it is good as it is and it is fun to play even though I can't pass it. And why increasing the AR just to make it easier to FC for a handful of people. Those who are able to FC this map I guess are in the top 200 and those players should be able to read lower AR without problems. And if not they gotta learn it. It doesn't justify the unrank in my opinion.
   
2. 02:14:220 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - After internal discussion and various testplays, we have come to the conclusion that this section has not been lowered in difficulty the way we were hoping. Lowering the spacing is still recommended. Also, we believe that the patterns can be made a lot more intuitive.
   Recommend? So it's optional and doesn't justify the unrank too. I know the section is hard, but it is fun. The map and the section is already very good (at least compared to other maps getting ranked nowadays) and doesn't really need to be "more intuitive" while risking it to be less fun or different at all.
   
3. 02:17:493 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - focuses too heavily on the right side of the screen. More movement around the playfield will allow for a more enjoyable pattern.
   Wow, too much circles at the right, I could almost start crying. Seriously... This is a slight drift to the right for a few seconds. That doesn't justify a unrank at all and it looks like you were desperately searching for small flaws to justify it. Is the map now unrankable because of that? That's how the map is, it's not less fun or less FCable because of that.
   
4. 01:56:220 (7,2) - This overlap (as mentioned by jesus1412 and pointed out in various testplays) has been known to cause readability issues. Please try to avoid this.
   Have seen way worse in recently ranked maps.

Purple wrote:

I actually didn't realize you or jesus1412 constitute TOP PLAYERS that are known for doing AMAZING THINGS in this game like 7-8 stars maps such as this one. IMO, if the QATs need the input of someone else because a map is too hard for them (fair enough), they should seek people that are known to FC maps of similar difficulty, and in this case, that means rrtyui, hvick, DH, WWW, HDHR, thelewa, and a few others. If they can't find anyone who can FC this song and speak english, they have to do the translation work themselves, it's that simple.

What's interesting is that your post essentially confirms a new ranking rule that says that for a map to be ranked, it has to be easy enough for rrtyui (AKA best player) to FC it, which is just completely unnecessary TBH. There's nothing wrong with ranking a map that noone can FC at the moment, the game is for fun to be had, not for pathological perfectionism.

JappyBabes wrote:

You don't refuse them using bullshit explanations as to why your way of doing things is superior and they clearly have no idea what they're talking about. That's just stroking your own ego and if that's the mindset you have, keep your shit in the graveyard. Not that Awaken has done this yet but we'll see.

Purple wrote:

JappyBabes wrote:

Good. That's how it should be when a map like this gets ranked. It's not your typical anime OP with AR9 arbitrarily assigned to it that will fly through qualified without a problem. Maps like these should be scrutinized. The AR change is only one of the suggestions Lust listed. To me, this is more about mapping patterns which don't work well with the AR. There are two scenarios, you change the AR to something slightly higher or you change some of the patterns to be more intuitive. http://puu.sh/giomH/ec2427d303.png The jumps at 820x, although they are technically the hardest part of the map, they still play fine because they fit the AR quite well (not to say it's mapped perfectly, I think it's entirely reasonable to criticize how it focuses on the right side of the screen even though it is not as big of a deal). The QATs are not overreacting, look at the members of QAT. None of them are top players so they do the logical thing. They ask the top players. "Hey, we need some opinions on this map going through qualified as none of us are able to play the highest difficulty, mind helping us out?", and guess what? We all had problems with it. That difficulty isn't for 99% of the people posting in this thread right now, your opinion is honestly not appreciated and is detrimental to ensuring this map is done right. The only posts here I see worth following up on are Tom and GN's. Simple as that. walloftext

I actually didn't realize you or jesus1412 constitute TOP PLAYERS that are known for doing AMAZING THINGS in this game like 7-8 stars maps such as this one. IMO, if the QATs need the input of someone else because a map is too hard for them (fair enough), they should seek people that are known to FC maps of similar difficulty, and in this case, that means rrtyui, hvick, DH, WWW, HDHR, thelewa, and a few others. If they can't find anyone who can FC this song and speak english, they have to do the translation work themselves, it's that simple.

What's interesting is that your post essentially confirms a new ranking rule that says that for a map to be ranked, it has to be easy enough for rrtyui (AKA best player) to FC it, which is just completely unnecessary TBH. There's nothing wrong with ranking a map that noone can FC at the moment, the game is for fun to be had, not for pathological perfectionism.

Purple wrote:

rachel wrote:

are you actually legitimately flaming a top 50 player for not being considered a "top player" when you're barely in the bottom half of the top 10k yourself

dude almost has a fucking airman fc, is that not good enough for you?

It's not a FC, and he himself knows he's not a top player as I described (yet), if he chooses to feel offended, then really that's not my doing. I do admit I find it surprising to see someone play a map that is way harder to read than this 900+ times and see him complain about pattern readability here. I do want to know the list of people who played this map on behalf of the QAT because I can almost guarantee that the players I mentioned in my previous post wouldn't have had a problem with readability on this map.

Broccoly wrote:

Can you explain how it is objectively worse? Because you think so?
Less challenging? AR should not be used to challenge players; it should be used accordingly to the patterns and to guide players to clearly read what they are hitting.

Even if the AR setting's intent purpose was to accommodate players and improve map readability (I don't agree with that), it's still a matter of preference, some people like AR10 and others prefer lower, and in this one case OP might have chosen something that is not popular among the majority of players and I think the QAT should always respect that decision as long as it's not extreme, like AR8 or something.

Broccoly wrote:

AR should not be used to challenge players; it should be used accordingly to the patterns and to guide players to clearly read what they are hitting.

could almost pass the map

Sotajumala wrote:

could almost pass the map

Think this explains broccolys point pretty well LMAO, besides i think even if you would have passed it would not have a been a gloriously awesome play.

"Changing it to AR10 just because a few people have conditioned themselves to only be able to play AR10 and nothing else is stupid."

Broccoly wrote:

Can you explain how it is objectively worse? Because you think so?
Less challenging? AR should not be used to challenge players; it should be used accordingly to the patterns and to guide players to clearly read what they are hitting.

In that case, AR should be a lot higher on a lot of ranked maps and a lot lower on a lot of other ranked maps. A lot of the basis of HR mod, even, is challenging people to read a very low object density (150-170bpm ar10 anyone?)

Garpo wrote:

Even though this isn't helpful to the mapper.

There is a trend with Awaken "super insane diffs" where they get qualified, disqualified over and over until BN had enough and are "satisfied" at the same time the star difficulty.
I MEAN COME ON, The same thing happened to Hanairo Biyori (From 6.11 to 6.48)

Maybe be more careful with qualifying maps? Disqualifying a map that was "hype" qualified just pisses off the community (Oh, just don't play qualified maps) but that isn't a good solution. (Well... the disqualification wasn't because of the that one diff) but it still is affected because new people still mod the diff.
Can we just not repeat this again?

OSUjanaiKATSURAda wrote:

LOL there is many unqualified BN's & QAT'S Be Smart And Neutral ...

VINXIS wrote:

02:17:766 (3,4) - ctrl+G and 02:18:039 (1,2) - Ctrl+G for second gonkakorokuu but then the sd will go to 7.07 rip but oh well flow pls

kby

Images

• 02:18:311 (1) to 02:18:857 (2)

• 02:18:993 (3) - to 02:19:402 (7)

159,383,138311,6,0,P|96:363|69:283,1,142.5,10|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
152,299,138584,70,0,B|183:259|183:259|228:244|228:244|244:199|279:184,1,178.125
308,260,138857,1,8,0:0:0:0:
95,25,138993,1,2,0:0:0:0:
308,260,139130,1,0,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139266,1,2,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139334,1,0,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139402,2,0,P|417:103|378:118,1,95,10|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:

Cartographer wrote:

I like it tbh, why did it get unranked?

Static Noise Bird wrote:

OSUjanaiKATSURAda wrote:

LOL there is many unqualified BN's & QAT'S Be Smart And Neutral ...

I don't know whether you're insulting the BNG/QAT members or if you simply typed the opposite of what you meant. Either way, you make no sense, and should stop posting.

OSUjanaiKATSURAda wrote:

.

Zantaria wrote:

rank HW maps but unrank this ....

Cartographer wrote:

Nice find.

VINXIS wrote:

02:17:766 (3,4) - ctrl+G and 02:18:039 (1,2) - Ctrl+G for second gonkakorokuu but then the sd will go to 7.07 rip but oh well flow pls

kby

Please take a look here, I like what you did and made it better.. I hope.

[Second Gonkanau]

02:18:311 (1) to 02:19:402 (7) - Flow

Cartographers mod

My Mod

If you need help hit me up.

159,383,138311,6,0,P|96:363|69:283,1,142.5,10|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
152,299,138584,70,0,B|183:259|183:259|228:244|228:244|244:199|279:184,1,178.125
308,260,138857,1,8,0:0:0:0:
95,25,138993,1,2,0:0:0:0:
308,260,139130,1,0,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139266,1,2,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139334,1,0,0:0:0:0:
471,107,139402,2,0,P|417:103|378:118,1,95,10|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:

I'll mod more later, bed time now.

LexiaLovesU wrote:

Yeah that's not modding that's you giving the mapper a code when the mapper doesn't even know what you changed

First suggest what you think could be improved that means use the times along with the reason why your suggestion this and how you think it should be changed. You have to allow the mapper to have the chance to see what you are suggesting not just giving them a code

Don't post anything complaining about the unrank its really not needed anymore

1. When i say that i don't feel anything funny, it's when you don't feel the real impact of the song, you have deliberately increased the difficulty, and added some extra triples which do not follow the song and make this diff even less funnier to play for example 00:23:084 (2,3,4) - or 00:26:970 (5) - etc., and some 1/4 slider jumps too 00:25:948 (5,6) - . Is it overmapping ? not really if you use them sparingly.
2. 00:25:948 (5,6) - Here, i don't really know what you're following, you skip this note 01:20:902 - which is enough powerful, and i think a clap is supposed to be here too. Before adding more density, make sure that you follow the song first. If you don't do that, patterns can be easily confusing.
3. 02:05:289 (2,3,4) - This map is not Mythologia's end, unsnapped things you can hear on the song don't mean "awh i'll map streams here", that's a theory which does not make sense.
4. 02:14:220 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2) - rip.

Awaken wrote:

7.08

LexiaLovesU wrote:

Yeah that's not modding that's you giving the mapper a code when the mapper doesn't even know what you changed

First suggest what you think could be improved that means use the times along with the reason why your suggestion this and how you think it should be changed. You have to allow the mapper to have the chance to see what you are suggesting not just giving them a code

Don't post anything complaining about the unrank its really not needed anymore

Zantaria wrote:

rank HW maps but unrank this ....

silmarilen wrote:

if, according to you, someone who has been in the top50 consistently for the past 3 years or so is not good enough to determine if this map plays well or not (which is laughable at it's own). how can you even have the nerves to think that you do?

Purple wrote:

I never said I had the qualifications to say whether a map plays well or not, I'm just saying that maps shouldn't get de-ranked for non-technical stuff. I know now the names of at least some of the top PP players involved in play-testing this map, and I wont go into detail but I will say that I think it's a really bad idea to have non-QAT players decide the fate of a map. I retract my previous sentence where I said rrtyui and others should be contacted instead; in reality, no one should be.

Really, only QAT members should be involved. It's possible to tell whether a map is OK for ranking without having to get 97% accuracy on it, I mean, we have had harder stuff ranked like Airman, Atama no Taisou and that one MLP song ranked and there were no long-lasting controversies that followed. The philosophy that maps should play fair for the players is one I agree with, but for god sakes, this map doesn't even have a single flow-break in it... I played this map and I couldn't find any crazy artistry in it like I find in hanzer's maps, just very wide jumps and not much else.

This is a high-profile map, so let's not make the ranking process appear like a incoherent mess towards prospective mappers please. To me, that's the whole crux of the issue.

VINXIS wrote:

yo those 1/4 sliders at the beginning got no chill lol I'd recommend changing them imo doesn't fit the song well honestly but that is ur choice

00:12:584 (4,5,6) - and 00:22:948 (1,2,3) - and e.t.c.

ur choice i honestly dont think they fit but ya don't give me kd omfg

Purple wrote:

I actually didn't realize you or jesus1412 constitute TOP PLAYERS that are known for doing AMAZING THINGS in this game like 7-8 stars maps such as this one. IMO, if the QATs need the input of someone else because a map is too hard for them (fair enough), they should seek people that are known to FC maps of similar difficulty, and in this case, that means rrtyui, hvick, DH, WWW, HDHR, thelewa, and a few others. If they can't find anyone who can FC this song and speak english, they have to do the translation work themselves, it's that simple.

What's interesting is that your post essentially confirms a new ranking rule that says that for a map to be ranked, it has to be easy enough for rrtyui (AKA best player) to FC it, which is just completely unnecessary TBH. There's nothing wrong with ranking a map that noone can FC at the moment, the game is for fun to be had, not for pathological perfectionism.

Horo wrote:

Maybe I'm just stupid, I really don't look at the modding system much. Just my two cents. I don't get why the uber difficulties catch so much shit, who fucking cares if there are a couple hard but fun maps that are ranked? It's a challenge to combo on them, new players can play the lower diffs.