^ Fundamentally the same logic as my DdkdDdkdD example.
I think this needs to be left up to modders.
I think this needs to be left up to modders.
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Taiko Rules and Guidelines Discussion Thread (translated)
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Could be a guideline, a.k.a can only bypass it if it makes sense and makes the map more funmm201 wrote:
^ Fundamentally the same logic as my DdkdDdkdD example.
I think this needs to be left up to modders.
Edit: I still think that wouldn't be very readable unless you increase SV, and increasing SV to read some big notes, will decrease the time the players have to read anything else to begin with.
James is good example, even though I said big notes are bad in Taiko, he ignored and humiliated me. Oh, some of Taiko guys consider his Taiko map as worst as ever.
Ok to be honest we made that rules cause fools that have high position always violates this even we told not to do that several times. Do whatever you want, but we won't even weaken that rule cause we don't think it is right time to do that. (I regret talking about weakening big note rule with Taiko guys. We shouldn't have discussed this if we get attacked like this.)
Ok to be honest we made that rules cause fools that have high position always violates this even we told not to do that several times. Do whatever you want, but we won't even weaken that rule cause we don't think it is right time to do that. (I regret talking about weakening big note rule with Taiko guys. We shouldn't have discussed this if we get attacked like this.)
How can I forget this?James wrote:
its good that you stop because you wont win no matter what
Ok then let's ban the use of any Finish note that has any other note within less than 1/3 near it.
It should be measured in milliseconds, not beats. Just like every other too-fast rule.
Edit: But include the no-overlap requirement.
Edit: But include the no-overlap requirement.
Please stay on topic and avoid personal attacks.lepidopodus wrote:
James is good example, even though I said big notes are bad in Taiko, he ignored and humiliated me. Oh, some of Taiko guys consider his Taiko map as worst as ever.
Higher bpm = more difficulty, i thought every rythm game has taught us that. which is why i would like to measure it in beat snaps rather than miliseconds.mm201 wrote:
It should be measured in milliseconds, not beats. Just like every other too-fast rule.
Edit: But include the no-overlap requirement.
However feel free to measure it in miliseconds if that's better for you.
I accept this pending ruling on:OnosakiHito wrote:
I will be strict and honest: I'm happy to see you posting here, but 1/4 will be not allowed and will be not changed.
It is possible to play 1/4 hitcircles in some cases and it dose fit to a song sometimes. But there a way higher rated arguments again it:
1.) Using them is extremely loud.
2.) Taiko No Tatsujin, the original game, our mother game, dose not include such cases. And for the sake of this game it will be also not allowed here.Sander-Don wrote:
It's unauthentic
ziin wrote:
is this unrankable?arien666 wrote:
大打音
Don't give up; you've almost won!lepidopodus wrote:
(I regret talking about weakening big note rule with Taiko guys. We shouldn't have discussed this if we get attacked like this.)
@ziin: 大打音 is so-called neta-map. That means it is extremely exceptional case. Don't expand it too much. If similar map got submitted in osu, we might allow that but only after long long discussion.
At least I agree that we need to set exact limit. We had restricted big notes in 1/4 for long time, but there isn't exact limitation so we had certain gray zones. For example, how about 1/4 big notes in HS2.
At least I agree that we need to set exact limit. We had restricted big notes in 1/4 for long time, but there isn't exact limitation so we had certain gray zones. For example, how about 1/4 big notes in HS2.
That's why there need to be two different rules: one for time between objects, and another for visibility.
HS2 1/4 bigs would probably be okay with 80 BPM, for instance.
I'll need some help from you taiko guys in deciding what the fastest BPM 1/4 bigs are playable in.
HS2 1/4 bigs would probably be okay with 80 BPM, for instance.
I'll need some help from you taiko guys in deciding what the fastest BPM 1/4 bigs are playable in.
Topic Starter
Okay, stop please for a moment.
Before any new ideas are coming up, first discuss about the rule it self, please. After that you can use new ideas and opinions. But not before.
If this should happen, I will add this into the second post two, what has been deleted.
Before any new ideas are coming up, first discuss about the rule it self, please. After that you can use new ideas and opinions. But not before.
- Finish Notes
These notes should not be used in 1/4 or 1/6 or 1/8 streams, even at the beginning or the end. This is because the player is supposed to hit this type of note with both keys corresponding to the note's colour and because they overlap the related notes.
Exeptions: At the end of a minimum 8-plet or 5-plets long 1/4 stream were a climax sound is clearly hearable. Consecutive finishes-streams are discouraged unless the BPM is low(SV 1.60 is here recommendet, to avoid overlapping).
Example: AU - Infinite of Nuclear Fusion [Taiko Oni]
If this should happen, I will add this into the second post two, what has been deleted.
The thing is, the lower the BPM, it may be easier to hit the 1/4 big notes, but then the scrolling speed is slower too, making them hard to read, so if it's not one thing is the other, which is why i think most have agreed to No big notes within less than 1/3 in the past.mm201 wrote:
That's why there need to be two different rules: one for time between objects, and another for visibility.
HS2 1/4 bigs would probably be okay with 80 BPM, for instance.
I'll need some help from you taiko guys in deciding what the fastest BPM 1/4 bigs are playable in.
@mm201: But things are more complecated than you think... For example, some Taiko guys even think extremely high HS is ok cause it is used in TnT (See Inner Oni of Rotter Tarmination, Interestingly, this is quite popular map.) while they still think visibility is important.
I don't want to close every doors, even to some concrete rules like this finish or something, but I really don't want to see some guys trying to abuse it. (Yeah that is one reason why we requested some sort of Taiko superviser previously. For now, at least we have some MATs who is also Taiko experts.)
Maybe we can set a basic limitations, then talking about suitability of each cases when it is violated. Of course someone need to be a final decision maker.
@OnosakiHito: Sorry but stating about exceptions right now might not be that nice.
@Sakura Hana: BPM does not affect distance between notes if they have same beat placement. Even with slighly covered, 1/4s in big notes can be readed if the song has low BPM. That is why some guys stated we don't need to regulate big notes in extremely low BPM. (This is also the part of previous 'agreement', but we didn't make exact limitations in that time... Z***** insisted 85 while w******* liked 100, etc etc.)
I don't want to close every doors, even to some concrete rules like this finish or something, but I really don't want to see some guys trying to abuse it. (Yeah that is one reason why we requested some sort of Taiko superviser previously. For now, at least we have some MATs who is also Taiko experts.)
Maybe we can set a basic limitations, then talking about suitability of each cases when it is violated. Of course someone need to be a final decision maker.
@OnosakiHito: Sorry but stating about exceptions right now might not be that nice.
@Sakura Hana: BPM does not affect distance between notes if they have same beat placement. Even with slighly covered, 1/4s in big notes can be readed if the song has low BPM. That is why some guys stated we don't need to regulate big notes in extremely low BPM. (This is also the part of previous 'agreement', but we didn't make exact limitations in that time... Z***** insisted 85 while w******* liked 100, etc etc.)
Oh i see i didn't know that, my bad i just saw some songs had way faster scrolling in TnT when BPM was higher but i haven't experimented much with Taiko other than Cats - Baby Cat.lepidopodus wrote:
@Sakura Hana: BPM does not affect distance between notes if they have same beat placement. Even with slighly covered, 1/4s in big notes can be readed, if the song has low BPM. That is why some guys stated we don't need to regulate big notes in extremely low BPM. (This is also the part of previous 'agreement', but we didn't make exact limitations in that time...)
I've already established that 1/4 bigs are playable in 200 BPM, and hopefully nobody disagrees, so the point is moot. I haven't seen many sub-60 BPM songs in osu so they should be rare enough to count out.mm201 wrote:
That's why there need to be two different rules: one for time between objects, and another for visibility.
HS2 1/4 bigs would probably be okay with 80 BPM, for instance.
I'll need some help from you taiko guys in deciding what the fastest BPM 1/4 bigs are playable in.
Rather than make a cut point at a certain BPM, it should be at the 1/4 mark, since taiko approach rate varies with BPM, and the slider speed should vary very little. Fast BPMs are "too annoying/not authentic" but readable. Slow BPMs are "unreadable due to skin". You'd be left with a range of stuff where it's okay to use, and in that case a flat deny of all 1/4 would be better and easier.
@OnosakiHito
under Exceptions: is xxxdD allowed?
Topic Starter
@ziin: omegaflo asked that, too. But unfortunately hadn't time to add it yet in the second info post for discussing such points.
@ziin: 200 BPM with spammed big notes? I considered that as a joke, but I guess you are quite serious. Simply hitting keys, ok that might be easy, but hitting both keys several times with same time gaps (which is really short) while hitting two keys exactly same time, huh. I don't consider that as acceptible.
And for other things, I just can't understand your statement. I already said we don't use word 'approach rate' so I don't know what you are meaning. I never said high BPM is annoying (maybe to some newbies cause speed of notes is quite high) or non-authentic (high BPM --> non-authentic? who said that, seriously?) and we never said low BPM is hard to read. (We have more time to read the notes since speed of note is slow) I don't know why you stated about skin in there. I can't answer these things cause I couldn't understand.
@Onosakihito: I said it is bad to say about exceptions for now, there is someone trying to abuse that already.
And for other things, I just can't understand your statement. I already said we don't use word 'approach rate' so I don't know what you are meaning. I never said high BPM is annoying (maybe to some newbies cause speed of notes is quite high) or non-authentic (high BPM --> non-authentic? who said that, seriously?) and we never said low BPM is hard to read. (We have more time to read the notes since speed of note is slow) I don't know why you stated about skin in there. I can't answer these things cause I couldn't understand.
@Onosakihito: I said it is bad to say about exceptions for now, there is someone trying to abuse that already.
As for the fact that it may fit the song is one thing, i dont see the problem with switching from a ddkdkdkdk...something stream to 3 3/4 big dons if there are some enphasis in there, then back to another stream, I havent even seen any point in which there are enphasized notes IN THE MIDDLE OF A STREAM, considering you're still mapping to the same instrument, on any song whatsoever, and switching instruments often in middle of a stream is just... no.
osu! has it's hitsounds to recognize a different sound from another instrument in middle of mapping, in Taiko it's different, your hitsounds are part of your mapping, so it's pretty hard (and maybe annoying) to switch instruments when you're clearly following something else, just to have an enphasis in middle of the stream, i rather you have a small pause then hit the enphasis then go back to your other instrument after said pause.
Then again why are we even discussing this, it just seems like we're going in circles in here.
Edit: if anything use a regular don in middle of katsus to give recognitiion to enphasized notes in a stream, lone enphasis is when you'd normally go with big dons/katsus.
osu! has it's hitsounds to recognize a different sound from another instrument in middle of mapping, in Taiko it's different, your hitsounds are part of your mapping, so it's pretty hard (and maybe annoying) to switch instruments when you're clearly following something else, just to have an enphasis in middle of the stream, i rather you have a small pause then hit the enphasis then go back to your other instrument after said pause.
Then again why are we even discussing this, it just seems like we're going in circles in here.
Edit: if anything use a regular don in middle of katsus to give recognitiion to enphasized notes in a stream, lone enphasis is when you'd normally go with big dons/katsus.
(by the way we're done now; I agree with the no 1/4th rule, just clearing up some stuff)
1/4 big note streams in high bpm are annoying because they are non-authentic and hard to play (hitting the same key with the same finger at a rate of 800 hits per minute is hard). 1/4 big note streams in low bpm are annoying because they are also non-authentic and hard to read (Big notes are larger than normal and cover up the note behind them, making it easy to not see the note).
I hate overmapping in osu!. Some people like overmapping in osu!. They attribute it to "mapper style" and it is accepted by most of the community. In these cases, I usually vote the map lower than normal and it has pretty much no chance of being a favorite map of mine to play. Onosakihito clearly likes the exceptions or he wouldn't have suggested them. Whoever made the Taiko Oni he listed also likes them or that person wouldn't have made the map like that. That's at least 2 people who support this idea, and I'm positive there are many more who don't play osu! taiko but play some other form of taiko. Why should this not be a part of "mapper style"?
I don't think it's right to ban something just because you think it's too hard when plenty of other people can do it. It is right to ban something because it's wrong or there is some visual or game problem with it.lepidopodus wrote:
@ziin: 200 BPM with spammed big notes? I considered that as a joke, but I guess you are quite serious. Simply hitting keys, ok that might be easy, but hitting both keys several times with same time gaps (which is really short) while hitting two keys exactly same time, huh. I don't consider that as acceptable.
Sorry I thought you read this:lepidopodus wrote:
approach rate
I can use "speed of notes" but approach rate is the rate (velocity) of approach (something coming closer). I'm not talking about the option in the .osu file.aabc271 wrote:
Speed of notes = BPM * SV * SV multiplier
1/4 big note streams in high bpm are annoying because they are non-authentic and hard to play (hitting the same key with the same finger at a rate of 800 hits per minute is hard). 1/4 big note streams in low bpm are annoying because they are also non-authentic and hard to read (Big notes are larger than normal and cover up the note behind them, making it easy to not see the note).
I know you hate analogies but I have one last one.lepidopodus wrote:
@Onosakihito: I said it is bad to say about exceptions for now, there is someone trying to abuse that already.
I hate overmapping in osu!. Some people like overmapping in osu!. They attribute it to "mapper style" and it is accepted by most of the community. In these cases, I usually vote the map lower than normal and it has pretty much no chance of being a favorite map of mine to play. Onosakihito clearly likes the exceptions or he wouldn't have suggested them. Whoever made the Taiko Oni he listed also likes them or that person wouldn't have made the map like that. That's at least 2 people who support this idea, and I'm positive there are many more who don't play osu! taiko but play some other form of taiko. Why should this not be a part of "mapper style"?
Check 2nd page of this thread and you will see who questioned it first.Sakura Hana wrote:
Then again why are we even discussing this, it just seems like we're going in circles in here.
The same logic that how wrong is 'I can do that so why you ban it?'. At least I considered as experts in Taiko mapping so my thoughts can be a bit more influencial. There is not exact answer for this, but YOU stated about availability of streamy big notes first and constantly.ziin wrote:
I don't think it's right to ban something just because you think it's too hard when plenty of other people can do it. It is right to ban something because it's wrong or there is some visual or game problem with it.
1/4 streamy big notes are non-authentic, but I never said 'it is wrong cause it's non-authentic'. Some other guys said similar things though.ziin wrote:
1/4 big note streams in high bpm are annoying because they are non-authentic and hard to play. 1/4 big note streams in low bpm are annoying because they are also non-authentic and hard to read.
No one intervenes how mapper maps, but we are talking about standards for ranked maps. If certain 'mapping style' is simply denied and considered as annoying in the community, why should we accept that as a ranked ones while the community looked down it? Yeah that so-called 'mapping style' can have some supporters, but far from ranked ones until it accepted by the community.ziin wrote:
I hate overmapping in osu!. Some people like overmapping in osu!. They attribute it to "mapper style" and it is accepted by most of the community. In these cases, I usually vote the map lower than normal and it has pretty much no chance of being a favorite map of mine to play. Onosakihito clearly likes the exceptions or he wouldn't have suggested them. Whoever made the Taiko Oni he listed also likes them or that person wouldn't have made the map like that. That's at least 2 people who support this idea, and I'm positive there are many more who don't play osu! taiko but play some other form of taiko. Why should this not be a part of "mapper style"?
I wish taiko on osu! had authentic drumrolls xD
But changing that would involve a score reset more then likely.
But changing that would involve a score reset more then likely.
What in the fuck is going on here.
Lemme make the rules, I'd make the best rules
no fucking shit unless 1.4 or 1.6 (1.6 kinda sucks), or alternatively, the bpm is over 250, make it 1.2 or if its over 280, make it 1.0.
No big notes in streemz
make sliders 1/2 after stream (unless it truely needs to be lead in) and streams 1/2 after sliders
Spinners can go on the end of streamz
You can use slow downs or speed ups unless there's overlap
Who gives a shit about combo colors or hitsounds, blue's come from wisleys or clappus anyways.
Ayyy no 1/8 nigga, unless you're doubling the SV and it's like the song has doubled it's bpm. Usually only on 100 or lower bpm songs
Countdowns are gay, breaks are gay
Difficulty should always be 5
Rests are for pussies
When you're using .50, or any slow down, stop using finishes. It's ugly and overlaps things TAT
And putting notes like O ooo O ooooo O ooooo O ooo O is super annoyinz. :v v: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ok, the end, I make the best rules.
Lemme make the rules, I'd make the best rules
no fucking shit unless 1.4 or 1.6 (1.6 kinda sucks), or alternatively, the bpm is over 250, make it 1.2 or if its over 280, make it 1.0.
No big notes in streemz
make sliders 1/2 after stream (unless it truely needs to be lead in) and streams 1/2 after sliders
Spinners can go on the end of streamz
You can use slow downs or speed ups unless there's overlap
Who gives a shit about combo colors or hitsounds, blue's come from wisleys or clappus anyways.
Ayyy no 1/8 nigga, unless you're doubling the SV and it's like the song has doubled it's bpm. Usually only on 100 or lower bpm songs
Countdowns are gay, breaks are gay
Difficulty should always be 5
Rests are for pussies
When you're using .50, or any slow down, stop using finishes. It's ugly and overlaps things TAT
And putting notes like O ooo O ooooo O ooooo O ooo O is super annoyinz. :v v: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ok, the end, I make the best rules.
Topic Starter
I'm still thinking about this. It's not a bad though. But atm just saying.mm201 wrote:
I think this needs to be left up to modders.
@ziin & lepidopodus:
lepidopodus you know(as ther others do), after poonwing, I'm also a big supporter of finishes at the end of a streams, but ziin, just at the end of a strem: At the end of a minimum 8-plet or 5-plets long 1/4 stream were a climax sound is clearly hearable.
I'm still not a supporter your idea.
Also the second one who made this map, was a Taiko jiro mapper and not authentic one. They have other mapping styles as the real authentic so use them as supporter is not helpfull at all. Sorry.
Watching trough suggested points now, to add them into the second list.
Backfire wrote:
What in the fuck is going on here.
Lemme make the rules, I'd make the best rules
no fucking shit unless 1.4 or 1.6 (1.6 kinda sucks), or alternatively, the bpm is over 250, make it 1.2 or if its over 280, make it 1.0.
No big notes in streemz
make sliders 1/2 after stream (unless it truely needs to be lead in) and streams 1/2 after sliders
Spinners can go on the end of streamz
You can use slow downs or speed ups unless there's overlap
Who gives a shit about combo colors or hitsounds, blue's come from wisleys or clappus anyways.
Ayyy no 1/8 nigga, unless you're doubling the SV and it's like the song has doubled it's bpm. Usually only on 100 or lower bpm songs
Countdowns are gay, breaks are gay
Difficulty should always be 5
Rests are for pussies
Ok, the end, I make the best rules.
Oh god.
Yeah, nice simple authentic-ish rules there, Sean.
Cept we have all these taiko newfags trying to change everything.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯Sander-Don wrote:
Backfire wrote:
What in the fuck is going on here.
Lemme make the rules, I'd make the best rules
no fucking shit unless 1.4 or 1.6 (1.6 kinda sucks), or alternatively, the bpm is over 250, make it 1.2 or if its over 280, make it 1.0.
No big notes in streemz
make sliders 1/2 after stream (unless it truely needs to be lead in) and streams 1/2 after sliders
Spinners can go on the end of streamz
You can use slow downs or speed ups unless there's overlap
Who gives a shit about combo colors or hitsounds, blue's come from wisleys or clappus anyways.
Ayyy no 1/8 nigga, unless you're doubling the SV and it's like the song has doubled it's bpm. Usually only on 100 or lower bpm songs
Countdowns are gay, breaks are gay
Difficulty should always be 5
Rests are for pussies
Ok, the end, I make the best rules.You're so annoying.
Oh god.
Yeah, nice simple authentic-ish rules there, Sean.
Cept we have all these taiko newfags trying to change everything.
I'd like it if you could lower the tone, especially Backfire and Sander-Don. This thread is meant to discuss OnosakiHito's rules, not to insult other players or imply anything about them.
@sander
==================
back to topic, lepi and sakura spoke all I thought:
- Simply no finishes on streams at this moment. Reasons are as explained by Sakura.
- "Exceptional cases" are complex and hard to clarify here, they could be handled individually.
SPOILER
In the past there's no limit (the 2008 - early2009 era?), and after drumroll restriction scores has been reset once, that was painful for me XD I don't think there'll be a second resetting -w-Sander-Don wrote:
I wish taiko on osu! had authentic drumrolls xD
But changing that would involve a score reset more then likely.
==================
back to topic, lepi and sakura spoke all I thought:
- Simply no finishes on streams at this moment. Reasons are as explained by Sakura.
- "Exceptional cases" are complex and hard to clarify here, they could be handled individually.
No one's insulting anyone, I'm just frustrated with people trying to make taiko unauthentic. Thanks.
Yeah, Mitten told me that, Chris xD
Yeah, Mitten told me that, Chris xD
Ono and me are grate frans.Odaril wrote:
I'd like it if you could lower the tone, especially Backfire and Sander-Don. This thread is meant to discuss OnosakiHito's rules, not to insult other players or imply anything about them.
It's cool. I'm not insulting anyone, i'm just saying I make the best rulez ;-;
Topic Starter
Thank you Odaril. Really, thank you. That's what I have normaly wanted. orz
Reference on the rules at the moment, saying what is bad and what not, what could be made better. But mostly hearing just thinks which have been mentioned in the first post allready.
Reference on the rules at the moment, saying what is bad and what not, what could be made better. But mostly hearing just thinks which have been mentioned in the first post allready.
Oh god, I'm out of here.
Have fun screwing up taiko. o/
Have fun screwing up taiko. o/
I 4gotted some of the most improratnt rule of all.
When you're using .50, or any slow down, stop using finishes. It's ugly and overlaps things TAT
And putting notes like O ooo O ooooo O ooooo O ooo O is super annoyinz. :v v: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
When you're using .50, or any slow down, stop using finishes. It's ugly and overlaps things TAT
And putting notes like O ooo O ooooo O ooooo O ooo O is super annoyinz. :v v: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Let me remind you that this isn't taiko no tatsujin; it is osu!. Just like the osu! game mode, it will not be authentic. osu! was not made to limit users to particular boundaries placed on mappers in other games. The idea of this thread is to try and agree on a mid-ground that allows for flexibility but keeps maps playable and fun.
TnT's things they do are damn good and there's like, literally no reason to change many things whatsoever.
I'm not particularly sure what was wrong with our old rules in the first place.
I'm not particularly sure what was wrong with our old rules in the first place.
This is your opinion. The idea of this thread is to allow for more flexibility than what only you may want to see in a game.
I already said to cling to TnT things weakens our reasoning, guys. To be honest, lots of mappers' style is already quite far from authentic maps.
What exactly are we planning to change?
I don't wish to read 7 pages of walls of text.
Can I get a tl;dr?
And i'm not clinging on TnT. I thought this was how we always mapped?
My maps are as far from authentic as you can get. o-o;
I don't wish to read 7 pages of walls of text.
Can I get a tl;dr?
And i'm not clinging on TnT. I thought this was how we always mapped?
My maps are as far from authentic as you can get. o-o;
Backfire wrote:
What exactly are we planning to change?
I don't wish to read 7 pages of walls of text.
Can I get a tl;dr?
New Rule: no finishes because they are super annoyinz [/sarcasm]Backfire wrote:
I 4gotted some of the most improratnt rule of all.
When you're using .50, or any slow down, stop using finishes. It's ugly and overlaps things TAT
And putting notes like O ooo O ooooo O ooooo O ooo O is super annoyinz. :v v: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
copy those rules then. Find them and translate them for this thread please.Backfire wrote:
TnT's things they do are damn good and there's like, literally no reason to change many things whatsoever.
Uhhhh
HP Drain should be 5 for pretty much everything. It's reasonable. If you can't pass it without 5, well, that's that. Get better, I guess.
What the heck does #2 mean?
HP Drain should be 5 for pretty much everything. It's reasonable. If you can't pass it without 5, well, that's that. Get better, I guess.
What the heck does #2 mean?
@ziin: Can you just stop? Seriously, it is just trolling to us.
I already stated about this, this is third: authentics might be a good reference, but cling to TnT isn't good for our reasoning. Attacking because it is authentic or non-authentic can't be justified in here.
@Backfire: I guess you need to read some more posts in here, HP drain isn't depends on the number of notes that much, but HP gain depends quite a lot on the number of notes. That means, if you are playing the map that is containing many notes, it would be really hard to pass.
About hitobject... errrr... Can you explain, Onosakihito? I don't get that too, lol.
I already stated about this, this is third: authentics might be a good reference, but cling to TnT isn't good for our reasoning. Attacking because it is authentic or non-authentic can't be justified in here.
@Backfire: I guess you need to read some more posts in here, HP drain isn't depends on the number of notes that much, but HP gain depends quite a lot on the number of notes. That means, if you are playing the map that is containing many notes, it would be really hard to pass.
About hitobject... errrr... Can you explain, Onosakihito? I don't get that too, lol.