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The Upheaval - Proposed changes to the BN/QAT

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OnosakiHito
QAT Engagement

This was one of my biggest concerns in the last years - the suppression of the QATs by holding them back for the solely purpose of moderating and not interacting with the BNs on bigger projects at all to make them less dependent on the QAT. This caused however many of the already problems people mentioned in this thread which is probably also one of the reasons why this has been losend up in the past several months. I'm not exactly sure about osu!, but that definitely happened for Taiko, and BNs as well as QATs tried to stay in contact nonetheless because of concerns people raised. Because of this I'm happy this gets lifted.

Transparency

As mentioned above, BN and QAT from the mode Taiko were somewhat in contact, however, when it's a matter of transparency, then information have hold off for some time till it was certain what is going to happen and I would rather go on with that way to avoid any confusen or spread false information. Same goes for topics that influence the BNG in itself where I would discuss it first internally as the staff has more insight about certain processes and can filter out obstacles right at the beginning before opening a raw discussion to the BNs - what I basically say is that we would just be a filter for a better flow of discussion.

Dissolution of the current BN tiering system

It's basically the same we had in the past with the MAT/BAT system and which worked quite good. I can agree with this change however, I think it makes more sense that the probation period should always be 2 months. During this time BN should prove themselves without any big incidences. In this time people get used to them too and they get used to to system itself which goes in the direction of the golden rule "wait 1 week before you bubble anything". It also shows if they can actually hold their activity for at least 2 months and would be an indicator to how they might go on in the future. I also oppose the idea of adding new BNs within less than 2 months because of the question how to determine when one is ready to become earlier a BN than another.

Full members may be reduced to the probationary level at any time by QAT consensus if their conduct is deemed unacceptable, or they repeatedly make large mistakes or oversights is something I fully agree with but then the QAT must become stricter in such cases. Currently most of us do not moderate at all and discussions about misconduct from some BNs do not happen either. It even goes so far that most QATs do not have mod privileges in disqus which is contadicting in itself. What I am saying is simply, the QAT must start from itself becoming more active in this matter and maybe even go so far to work with the BNs together in this matter for a more open environment (the taiko group does it somewhat in this way at times and it seems to work).

QAT rewards

I can agree with this as well as with the BN rewards. What I would like to suggest though is to have a similar right as the long-serving BN (>1.5 years) [who] will qualify for a special title which they may choose to have applied to their account when they retire. It leans toward the right to choose whether you want to go with the osu! Alumni title or osu!(mode) Alumni. This suggestion rather comes from own preference to be honest since myself always worked for the past 5 years only for osu!taiko so it makes sense to be labeled as such. Maybe other QATs feel the same. Maybe not. But felt like mentioning it.

Returning agency

The top scoring aspirants will be considered the de-facto QAT leadership, though they may number no greater than two. I just want to ask for clarification: Does that mean there can be two QAT-leaders? That's how I understood it right from the beginning but #qat discussions lean towards one leader so far.


Overall I didn't said much as I planed to in the first days since I voiced up most of my concerns in #qat before which are pretty much mentioned in this thread by other members already. As for the whole change, I give it my greenlight. It's the right step in the right directions which has been suggested by many staff and community members for several times in the past.
Topic Starter
Ephemeral
As a supermajority consensus on the Upheaval has been reached by the QAT, we will be proceeding with the changes listed in this proposal and applying them as soon as possible.

The BN tiering will be abolished in the coming days, to be replaced with the probationary system. We will also begin polling for the QAT/BN leadership during the coming weekend.

Thank you to anyone who posted feedback or concerns - we will be considering them when applying these changes going forward.
Joe Castle
ignorant person here, asking: what this means?
Sinnoh
Since others asked the same question and there's not much context here for the average player, here's a light summary

Tiers
A couple months ago, standard mode BNs were tested and split into tiers based on results
Tier 1 BNs can only bubble maps, tier 2 can bubble and qualify
Nobody liked that so it's gone, all current BNs are now tier 2 (ie same as before tiers)
New BNs will be tier 1 for about a month. If they don't do anything bad they get tier 2

QAT
QAT is becoming more transparent about what they're doing
They will check the qualified section more often, like before
The way someone becomes QAT is no longer just decided by staff/other qat, will take community opinion/votes

Rewards
BNs will have purple names, like the old BAT
The most active BN every x months gets another title

That's a really basic summary, it's mainly the changes that will affect the average player
Shiranai
In addition, long-serving BN (>1.5 years) will qualify for a special title which they may choose to have applied to their account when they retire. What this will be is still being considered, but probably something involving community and modding somehow.
Long, consistently serving BN will receive a special title which they may choose to wear upon their retirement from the team. This will apply retroactively to all qualifying, currently-retired BN.
Question, if this proposed change applied on the future - will the old BNs before the change get the costum forum title on their retirement as well? Or the custom title only applied on current and upcoming BNs member? I just ask for fairness, because I think there's some BNs on past that deserved recognition as well on what they do on moderating maps.
Nao Tomori
Yes, it was stated that it would be applied ex post facto.

It says that in the post you quoted o.o
Shiranai
That's good to hear then, I thought it was mean "the current BNs until they retired" haha :p
Pachiru

Sinnoh wrote:

Rewards
BNs will have purple names, like the old BAT
MAT* :3
Arzenvald
*-* woah
1 year 2 month for me, well.. that was close.. it was good old time x-x
Drum-Hitnormal

Maxylan wrote:

Also, If I were a BN I'd love to have more filtering options for the pending beat maps listings, and more incentive to push maps made by newer players to ranked standards without as much fear of backlash from QAT (within reasonable limits, of course, I'm not suggesting we should incentivise them to bubble maps that are low quality but I'm saying if a map is a good quality it shouldn't have to rot for months in the pending beat maps section just because the mapper is unknown and the sheer volume of maps constantly being uploaded).

Me personally if I ever feel like random-modding something at this point I ain't got nothing to work on other than SP (which doesn't always speak for map quality) and the reputation of the mapper who made it, and I dislike the fact that mappers with a reputation can breeze through ranked while there's still maps several months or even years old in the pending beat maps page who's only got 2-3 views by BN's. I feel like more filtering options for beat maps in the pending beat maps listing would help find maps worthwhile a watch both for community members such as myself and BN's who's actual "job" it is to promote content suitable for ranked. The additional incentive to find and push high-quality maps made by aspiring mappers should also make the ranking process more enjoyable for aspiring mappers because currently, it feels like an uphill battle for respect in every way imaginable.
I think the biggest motivation for anyone to help make a map ranked is that they like the song. It would be nice to have more filtering options for song genre in pending maps. It would be even better to implement a subscription system so you can receive update when a new map of tag/genre you like is ready for BN check.

I think BN/QAT should be paid more, not with supporter status but real money so they can have more time to rank maps. Osu is a community driven game, and BN/QAT are the core of that community. You need to satisfy the core before you can satisfy the rest.
Pachiru

dudehacker wrote:

I think BN/QAT should be paid more, not with supporter status but real money so they can have more time to rank maps. Osu is a community driven game, and BN/QAT are the core of that community. You need to satisfy the core before you can satisfy the rest.
In that case, why not paying the most active mappers? They're producing content for the game too.
I think a permanently supporter is enough.
Surono
since BN/QAT looks like a volunteer and also anyone would be able to do it. wonder if spend money for supportertag per month, is that not expensive? so I think its enough to get something such permanent supportertag or acknowledgment. if paid with money, it more like doing something for job. I guess theres people that working at development for this game and will be get the real paid. real money only for people with their skills as job.
Topic Starter
Ephemeral
BN tiers have been officially abolished and the QAT leadership vote is currently underway with 3 candidates.
Chewin
good luck to all BNs <3
Eldergleam

dudehacker wrote:

I think BN/QAT should be paid more, not with supporter status but real money so they can have more time to rank maps. Osu is a community driven game, and BN/QAT are the core of that community. You need to satisfy the core before you can satisfy the rest.
i agree with this, because some of BN's lost their motivation after being pick up in BN list (after 3 or 4 month)
Endaris

Eldergleam wrote:

dudehacker wrote:

I think BN/QAT should be paid more, not with supporter status but real money so they can have more time to rank maps. Osu is a community driven game, and BN/QAT are the core of that community. You need to satisfy the core before you can satisfy the rest.
i agree with this, because some of BN's lost their motivation after being pick up in BN list (after 3 or 4 month)
Considering that osu! is free to play I wonder where you think that money is supposed to come from.
Topic Starter
Ephemeral
JBHyperion and Okorin have been voted in as the QAT/BN leadership.

The Beatmap Nominators now have additional presence on the forums and appropriate titles to match.

The Upheaval is progressing well!
Emmanuel9
good to start those who are in charge of the BN maps are sometimes not all occupied of the 1 single map 2 people checking, also when you create 1 map in 90% of cases you always find 1 error that can cost you expensive at the time of the mapping and almost always the BN have to take care of that along with the QAT however the causes are not so much of the user but of the system that already comes in the game and the version at the time of the mapping 1 error sometimes it costs to fix already that all the maps that I have played and I have seen its configuration and they contain 1 or 3 errors but they are ranked besides the current configuration there are some errors as much as the laster and the fallback to begin I suggest that they verify the errors of the game and of programming since that is that it gives more work to map and more work for BN and QAT to solve the problems that had during the construction of the map currently.
Okoratu
@emmanuel9: could you please reword this post in a way that reading it is understandable to like native english speakers - i've asked some and no one knows what you're even trying to say.
Ideal
i think he's trying to say that when someone finds an error on a map it costs you some time to fix it so you have to recheck with BNs/QATs, but he says these errors aren't due to the mapper and he's seen maps with errors and they're ranked so he's suggesting to fix these errors on the game's code itself, as it gives BNs and QATs more work to do

i dont know lol, he didn't use punctuation so its a lot harder to try and understand him. (tbh i don't get what he's saying, what does he mean it's the game code's fault lol)
okdinosaurs

Endaris wrote:

Eldergleam wrote:

dudehacker wrote:

I think BN/QAT should be paid more, not with supporter status but real money so they can have more time to rank maps. Osu is a community driven game, and BN/QAT are the core of that community. You need to satisfy the core before you can satisfy the rest.
i agree with this, because some of BN's lost their motivation after being pick up in BN list (after 3 or 4 month)
Considering that osu! is free to play I wonder where you think that money is supposed to come from.
I'm seconding this. It does seem like it should happen (particularly for QAT, imo) but the osu!team probably doesn't have the resources to be able to do this, and the processes required to generate said resources would turn this into a shill game.
TL;DR Yes, they should, but it's probably impossible atm

As for the changes in general, I love most of the ideas here! I would be really happy to see more maps a la Zauberkugel come through to ranked alongside TV Size.

EDIT: Congrats Okorin & JBHyperion
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