jeez, I struggle to understand how this stuff works any more. It's weird how this system's been constantly reworked for like a decade and all that's happened is it's gotten progressively more complicated and confusing without, as far as I can tell, getting much more efficient.
forum
The Upheaval - Proposed changes to the BN/QAT
posted
Total Posts
109
If you're still picking T1's then it's not probationary and you're still trying to keep the tiering system. You should read this change as "tiering system is gone" not "tiering system is now more lenient". I think you misunderstood the point if you are fine with it :\. Only new BN's would be on probation which makes sense since they are new. If you have issues with current BN's why not talk to them instead of trying to keep them from being full members? You're trying to be transparent right? So maybe you can discuss with them instead of judging them without letting them know what qualms you have with their current mode of operation. As well, how do you judge how BN's would have "proven" themselves? By only nominating maps you think are high quality? What if they have a different definition of quality to you? Many of the new BN's who got in through the BN Tests have been following your guys' concepts of "high quality maps" for too long, and it's caused mapping to become stale. Don't expect that to continue. There used to be multiple definitions. Now, mapping quality has become too streamlined.Mao wrote:
We discussed the probation period thing in the last meeting and I'm all for it. One potential problem I have is the "All existing BN will be promoted to 'full members'" thing as I think that we should not just blindly "promote" all of our current BNs. In my opinion, it might be better to look at all current T1s and decide case by case who we can put into the "regular members" already and who we'd like to go into the probation period first in order to prove themselves again.
So yeah but all in all, I'm fine with this point.
First of all, what's wrong with a popularity contest? QAT's like pishifat and Okorin are popular because they put themselves forward, and are a lot more transparent in what they do. They are also a lot more active at least from what we can see as BN's and mappers. Maybe it's time you guys stopped being all secretive?Mao wrote:
I don't really see a problem here with having QAT leaders themselves but I voiced these concerns before and I'm still holding on to them: I think that if we have BNs vote, it will end up as a popularity contest and that will result most likely in a non-functioning leadership.
So yeah, I'm against this point for now, not because of the idea of a leadership but because of the way these leaders are elected.
Also, I'd rather have a QAT in charge that is popular and can get along with the BN ecosystem than a QAT who might be "better" (very subjective too) at their job, but has very little support from the people they want to lead. You only fear the QAT leadership will become dysfunctional because the unpopular QAT's (You, Cryptic, Doyak etc...) won't have a chance compared to pishifat/oko/maybe kwan if shes staying. But do you really think they will create a dysfunctional leadership? What criteria do you think determines a good QAT leader? And why do you fear that other QAT members might not meet that criteria?
Mao wrote:
Deif wrote:
To be honest, I'm sick and tired of getting blamed for not being transparent enough towards other members of the modding community.
Couldn't agree more. So yeah, I'll give my opinion to the proposal too:
You shouldn't assume the tier shift has improved mapping quality either. That's a really big assumption... Nao's assumption is at least built on the fact that 99% of people here support abandoning the tier shift. (It's not actually 99%, i'm just using your rhetoric ;3)Desperate-kun wrote:
Please don't assume that everyone thinks the way you (and certain other people that speak out in public) do. The tier change has improved the quality of ranking in a sense that there are less maps qualified that were considered "very bad" by the community - The border isn't very clear, but if you look at the reports lately you'll notice 99% of them are about more minor things than we had before the tier split.Naotoshi wrote:
I think at this point, the idea of tiers changing the quality of ranked should probably be abandoned since it clearly didn't work...
To remain the quality standard we have, or even improve it, while implementing the proposed system, the QATs will need to make sure to find a method of selecting those BNs that isn't just "anyone who didn't get striked", otherwise this is a huge step backwards. The actual maps those people qualified need to be taken into account.
99%? You should check the thread again. Many of the issues that were reported in the thread were also reported even before the tier shift.Desp wrote:
The border isn't very clear, but if you look at the reports lately you'll notice 99% of them are about more minor things than we had before the tier split.
I'm actually really looking forward to this. Mapping has become stale, and you can see that in the community response. Quality is good in most maps, but mapping is too streamlined towards a certain "high quality standard" through correct emphasis, aesthetics, slider designs, flows, etc... The issue really is that right there is "the quality standard" as in only one standard of quality, whereas previously there were others. Look at old maps since you seem to enjoy them. Spacing was a lot more radical, and emphasis wasn't always correct. Some old chinese mappers, AngelHoney/fanzhen/kiddly had a habit of emphasizing red-ticks in jump patterns instead of white ticks which for mappers today is "incorrect emphasis, since white ticks are stronger". But they were (and still are) great maps to play. New Gravity is still one of my favourites, and it employs this red-tick jump idea.Desp wrote:
To remain the quality standard we have, or even improve it, while implementing the proposed system, the QATs will need to make sure to find a method of selecting those BNs that isn't just "anyone who didn't get striked", otherwise this is a huge step backwards. The actual maps those people qualified need to be taken into account.
Mapping quality doesn't need to be "improved" honestly. From what I see, if a map is following the mapping meta, and it was sent back 2 years, it would have been very high quality. The issue is that many people now map with this current "meta" making it no longer a rarity. If everything is high quality, only the very high quality maps are now high quality, and everything else is just average.
I would remind this to MrMonstrata, it seems it has been forgotten alreadyEphemeral wrote:
Refrain from commenting on other's opinions or the like for the time being - we'll have an open-ended discussion thread on that at a later date.
Dropping my two cents in this.
After reviewing what's proposed in this, I'm fine with it.
Also, there's already a non-standard BN addition round in progress, so I'm not sure how another addition round will work when there's one that's currently underway. Probably in a month or two?
I definitely agree to giving rewards to BNs that have stayed for so long and have spent a lot of their time in modding and helping out in the community. They should be given those kinds of rewards if they deserve it.
Gonna throw out a suggestion here. For non-standard game modes, the requirements should be lower since standard provides a lot more content that gets ranked than these modes. One major factor for this would be how much content each game mode produces, so standard requires more activity to be given a reward, then mania, then taiko/catch.
JBH is gathering up ideas on what kinds of rewards should be given, what criteria is needed to be given rewards and how they should be implemented, and discussion for this are currently in place, so we'll see.
Not sure how this could work on the standard side though, so I won't say anything about this for now.
I'm alright with a 'Report a map' button, but I'm wondering on how non-standard game mode maps will be decided. If it's a taiko map, then the taiko divisions should be the ones that are checking it. Reported catch maps should be checked by catch guys, mania maps should be checked by mania guys, etc.
I also believe that how the button works should be more expanded upon. The criteria needed for the report to submit would be a link to the post, a short sentence or two explaining what issues the map currently has, and something that checks to see if the map has already been reported. As an example, someone wants to report a map, and if the map was reported before, it should show that it's reported and that people are currently looking into it so it prevents people from reporting the same map over and over.
We're also undergoing making changes with the Ranking Criteria for all modes, so I can only say that this is currently happening as of now.
More transparency and communication is always beneficial between the BNG, the QAT and the staff though, and as such should be more encouraged.
---
tl;dr These are pretty great ideas and there are some that I think are not so great, but we'll see how these get discussed and implemented in the system we currently have today. I would very much appreciate that some of the concerns are addressed as well.
Dissolution of the current BN tiering systemI can't say much for this as a non-standard division leader, but I do agree with the proposed probation system. New BNs will need to tinker with their new tools and get accustomed into the rules and guidelines of being a BN to determine whether or not they actually fit as a member of the BNG. I think 1-2 months is a good enough timeframe to decide that.
The current BN tiering system will be dissolved, and replaced with a probationary system.
New BN will enter the system at this probationary level. We will call it 'T1' just for the sake of familiarity. All existing BN will be promoted to 'full members' (aka, T2) and will be allowed to both qualify and bubble maps at will.
Probationary members will not be permitted to qualify - only to bubble. The probation period will not exceed longer than a 2 month timeframe, with most people ideally out of probation after QAT review after a one month time period.
Full members may be reduced to the probationary level at any time by QAT consensus if their conduct is deemed unacceptable, or they repeatedly make large mistakes or oversights.
Probationary members that prove problematic for whatever reason will be opened up to a QAT consensus vote for dismissal from the BN. This must pass with a significant majority (66%+).
A new BN addition round will begin immediately. The new members will enter at the probationary level.
After reviewing what's proposed in this, I'm fine with it.
Also, there's already a non-standard BN addition round in progress, so I'm not sure how another addition round will work when there's one that's currently underway. Probably in a month or two?
Beatmap Nominator acknowledgementI think the name color was proposed before but somehow wasn't really implemented, though I'm not sure why these changes are only temporary and don't carry over to the new system. I don't think it should be that hard to implement name colors in the new website.
Full members of the Beatmap Nominators (aka: not probationary members) will once again receive a forum title and the purple name they were once known for in the past.
Probationary members do not receive this until they become a full member.
This is a temporary change and will not be carried over into the new system. Nominators under the new system (new being the automated system referenced in the past) will receive a different form of visual identification, yet to be determined.
This way, people that find BN via the forums will know that purple equals someone that can help. There will be no need to consult tier lists or anything of the sort.
In addition, long-serving BN (>1.5 years) will qualify for a special title which they may choose to have applied to their account when they retire. What this will be is still being considered, but probably something involving community and modding somehow.
I definitely agree to giving rewards to BNs that have stayed for so long and have spent a lot of their time in modding and helping out in the community. They should be given those kinds of rewards if they deserve it.
Beatmap Nominator rewardsThis one is currently being discussed among the BNG/QAT. I don't really foresee titles being given out for people that only pass that threshold, and I believe there should be more variables taken into account in determining how BNs will get rewarded for it. (e.g. Did the map end up in the Spotlights? Did the BN qualify a map from a new mapper?)
The most active BN member every 6 months as determined by a composite consideration of successfully qualified beatmaps and overall modding activity will receive the "Elite Nominator" title permanently, and 6 months of osu! supporter, plus 3 months that they may gift to any of their friends.
This will also be featured as a standalone news announcement complete with social media advertisement.
Other rewards will be considered as time goes on and new systems are announced.
Gonna throw out a suggestion here. For non-standard game modes, the requirements should be lower since standard provides a lot more content that gets ranked than these modes. One major factor for this would be how much content each game mode produces, so standard requires more activity to be given a reward, then mania, then taiko/catch.
JBH is gathering up ideas on what kinds of rewards should be given, what criteria is needed to be given rewards and how they should be implemented, and discussion for this are currently in place, so we'll see.
DivisionsAlready happened with catch and mania, and on my side it's actually much better than it was before. I do like that we're now able to communicate much better and that we're able to work together if some of us needed help with checking a map.
Divisions will be merged together into larger but separate units based on overall activity, with attention paid to common cooperation and friendships existing between divisions at the moment.
This one is a bit nebulous and may require further consideration.
Not sure how this could work on the standard side though, so I won't say anything about this for now.
QAT changesWe haven't been discouraged of modding / bubbling / qualifying for a long while now. In fact, we are actually encourage of doing them while we do other thing. This change was made around a year ago or so iirc.
QAT will be no longer barred (or discouraged) from bubbling, qualifying, or vetting qualified maps on their own.
The 'report a map' thread will be closed, and the functionality shifted to a 'report this map' button on the beatmap's web page. These reports will coalesce at certain thresholds within the #qat channel on the osu! internal discord, and all QAT will be expected to review these maps for potential issues as soon as they notice them.
QAT will be encouraged to return to checking qualified maps of their own initiative and interest, and a solution will be made to try to automatically allocated newly qualified maps to certain divisions for checking and approval.
My current idea for this is a Discord bot will notify divisions in their channels when a newly qualified map is assigned to them. I'm open to other ideas.
QAT will also be strongly encouraged to consider minimalist revisions of the current Ranking Criteria to promote higher quality beatmaps while removing unnecessary roadblocks to having alternate mapping styles enter Ranked. They will do so under the leadership of a self-appointed leader(s), explained more below.
I'm alright with a 'Report a map' button, but I'm wondering on how non-standard game mode maps will be decided. If it's a taiko map, then the taiko divisions should be the ones that are checking it. Reported catch maps should be checked by catch guys, mania maps should be checked by mania guys, etc.
I also believe that how the button works should be more expanded upon. The criteria needed for the report to submit would be a link to the post, a short sentence or two explaining what issues the map currently has, and something that checks to see if the map has already been reported. As an example, someone wants to report a map, and if the map was reported before, it should show that it's reported and that people are currently looking into it so it prevents people from reporting the same map over and over.
We're also undergoing making changes with the Ranking Criteria for all modes, so I can only say that this is currently happening as of now.
QAT rewardsOverall agree to this. It's nice to feel rewarded for the stuff you do every once in a while, but only if you earned it.
Long-standing members of the QAT (>2 years) will receive a profile badge denoting their tenure and marking anything significant they achieved during their time on the team.
They will be afforded a permanent place on the osu! Alumni should they choose to retire. They will also receive osu! supporter equivalent to the length of their service on the team once they retire.
Some of this is already the case, but I figured I'd state it again just to make people aware.
Returning agencyI'm not sure how I feel about this one. If anything, QAT Leaders should be evaluated by the staff on how they work / act around others and how they're going to lead the whole BNG/QAT once they're appointed. I'm aware of the 'popularity contest' aspect that's been going around, but this voting system is more of a double-edged sword that can either be very beneficial in leading the whole BNG/QAT or can backfire in a way that things don't change or become worse.
Should this proposal pass in full, the leadership and direction of the QAT will no longer be determined by a nebulous group of people officiated by the "staff".
The leader(s) will be determined by an expression of interest, followed by a combined vote from both the QAT and the Beatmap Nominators. The top scoring aspirants will be considered the de-facto QAT leadership, though they may number no greater than two.
Before clarifying this further, you must all understand that the BN/QAT system is a system in flux. It has been a standalone 'workaround' to the non-availability of an automated system that is supposed to fully regulate BN appointment automatically, with the QAT designed to fill a literal quality assurance role in that regard. It will change significantly from what it currently is at some point in the near future. When that time is exactly, none of us can say.
The scope of the QAT's leadership will be largely limited to day-to-day affairs and ensuring the smooth addition to and running of the Beatmap Nominators. QAT leadership will be expected to engage with both the Beatmap Nominators and the QAT as a whole, and generally be active and engaged members of the community of their own right.
The QAT leadership will work closely with a member of the osu! team to help them get things going and to provide consul for any systemic changes they may wish to make.
For the time being, that member will be me (Ephemeral). Understand however, that I will not be assuming direct leadership of the QAT under any circumstances bar an absolute necessity. My time has long since passed, and it is well past time for the newer members of the community to begin having their say in the game's future direction.
More transparency and communication is always beneficial between the BNG, the QAT and the staff though, and as such should be more encouraged.
---
tl;dr These are pretty great ideas and there are some that I think are not so great, but we'll see how these get discussed and implemented in the system we currently have today. I would very much appreciate that some of the concerns are addressed as well.
BN members receive increased acknowledgement via a forum title and some sort of visual identification (currently a purple name a la MAT). This particular point is temporary and will not carry over into the 'moddingv2' version of the Beatmap Nominators.I always wonder why BNs didn't obtain this kind of identification like old MATs from the beginning of BN/QAT change. This would be 100% correct if it wasn't "temporary" but permanent. Do not forget that if we have the possibility to play every day some new qualified > ranked maps this is given by the BNs hard work that should be recognized by others as well. They deserve to be recognized with some different colour in the forum/game chat like old MATs system.
The most active BN will be determined every 6 months via a composite consideration of successfully qualified beatmaps and overall modding activity, and will receive the Elite Nominator title plus suitable accolades for their efforts.This is actually cool. This would push BNs to work more and better. I mean better because if this comes to be true they could try to nominate maps that are not 100% ready for ranking just to show their activities for the hunger of power making troubles with the future QATs' work. (Well I am kinda pessimist but we must see all the aspects of each propose).
QAT will be freed from administrative obligation (regarding busywork and the like) and will be encouraged to check qualified maps of their own volition again. A new reporting system will be linked to the internal QAT channels, allowing them to fill their primary obligation as members of the team - to respond to complaints about improperly qualified maps.Finally? I always wonder so far what QATs were related to mapping/modding system since they are doing only moderating actions.
QAT will be encouraged to consider minimalist revisions of the current Ranking Criteria to promote higher quality beatmaps whilst also removing unnecessary roadblocks to alternate mapping styles entering RankedThis is so cool. But being the BNs experienced modders and mappers as well they could contribuite to this too.
You are right by a side, but not on the other one. There are a lot of cases you mentioned that are true, but don't forget that BNs are anyways experienced mappers. If they get a map modded and even nominated by his BN friend, you can't do anything with this, but you can't even negate the fact that if they get the nomination this means that the map is ready to be qualified and ranked. You can not make this a BN's fault because when they mod a BN's map he is working for him like he does for everyone else.GaterRaider wrote:
An upheaval to me would require that the blatant favoritism amongst BNs is addressed. Quick bubbles are passed around as favors that will be returned in the future in some way or the other. I am not going to name people but public cases of this are well recorded and should be no surprise to anyone. I don't even want to know how bad this truly is when you are an insider that has access to these advantages.
The problem is that nominators are naturally mappers and have a lot of influence in the ranking process. This creates an obvious incentive for favoritism to help each other out with their own maps. When those who are in charge of running the system are actively participating in it as individuals themselves then there are going to be problems.
Connections are too big of a driver in the current ranking process. Those with access to the people in charge are highly advantaged compared to those that do not. When getting hold of a BN is incredibly frustrating for some, while others can simply post a short message in a private discord server to get things rolling quickly I do not consider it a fair system.
Furthermore, I would propose to give much more importance to the Kudosu system too to "find" a good solution to the problem GaterRaider mentioned here. I mean, it's true that mostly of the ranked beatmaps are from experienced and well known mappers. I modded some maps that could be potentially qualified but the mentioned mappers are unknown and mostly are rejected when they ask privately a mod to a BN even if they think from other modders beatmaps are cool and respect the ranking criteria. It's just an idea I write here because I do not know where else I could propose. All modders with more than 200kd can vote a modded beatmap (this would make the queue's more active than asking it privately on the game). I mean, they can vote map on some parameters like the flow, the structure, the innovation and so on only after they received the kudosu (or people will give random kd just to get some points on their maps). There will be created a ranking of these voted maps that can be checked only by BNs and QATs where they can choose which maps to mod that are considered already good for qualifying. This would be nice for unknown mappers (that have for example 0 ranked beatmaps but a good quality of mapping) to be chosen by this "ranking" beatmap system instead to try to have the impossible luck to reach a BN's queue in time. Sorry if this is not related to the post but I wanted to propose this anyways.
Mark ranking process great again
the more things change the more they remain the same imo, just under a different name from beforeMashley wrote:
jeez, I struggle to understand how this stuff works any more. It's weird how this system's been constantly reworked for like a decade and all that's happened is it's gotten progressively more complicated and confusing without, as far as I can tell, getting much more efficient.
agreed tho
Anxient wrote:
this is a good civilization.
All BN and QAT should get osu! supporter regardless, is the very least that they deserve.
I'd be very surprised if the QAT did not have temporary supporter anymore. All BATs certainly did, you had supporter status enabled by virtue of being a BAT.
Transparency
I'm glad this is a thing that's being spoken about. I'm very aware that the transparency between QAT and BN failed in many instances, but I also was not happy about the transparency within the QAT and higher levels. Looking forward to this for sure.
Dissolution of the current BN tiering system
While I still do believe that the reasons for tiering are valid, it didn't work out as intended and brought a bad climate into the community. So generally, I do agree with this propose.
The probationary system makes a lot of sense to me, as the way BNs will be elected is good to determine modding skill, but doesn't make sure that the BNs are able to keep up good attitude in the daily BNG-life. Following the CoC etc. etc. is an important matter, too.
Beatmap Nominator acknowledgement
Good
Beatmap Nominator rewards
Good
Divisions
As stated in this paragraph itself, it does need some further thoughts about how it will be implemented in future, hence why I need to think about it further as well. Teams are a good approach, but as of right now, I feel like some divisions don't work out as intended. While certain people are very active, others are not - and this is were motivation levels can be influenced in a negative way. The whole thing with the rewards should not be division based, as I've stated somewhere else as well. These kind of rewards push competition where there shouldn't be, hence why they shouldn't be a thing in the first place. People are too diverse in terms of activity and motivation!
QAT changes
Looking forward to the report a beatmap button. Not quite sure how to understand it, but what do you mean with divisions in this case? It's an interesting thought that certain divisions check certain maps, but it would increase the workload of the BNG immensely (if you mean these kind of divisions) - I'm unsure as of how this will be received.
What I hope most is that the QAT-role won't be degraded to administrational stuff any longer.
QAT rewards
Good
Returning agency
Okay
tldr: While I agree with many points stated, some things still need more thoughts. Generally, it's going into an interesting direction though!
Change was needed, and I'm glad to see that stuff is moving right now.
I'm glad this is a thing that's being spoken about. I'm very aware that the transparency between QAT and BN failed in many instances, but I also was not happy about the transparency within the QAT and higher levels. Looking forward to this for sure.
Dissolution of the current BN tiering system
While I still do believe that the reasons for tiering are valid, it didn't work out as intended and brought a bad climate into the community. So generally, I do agree with this propose.
The probationary system makes a lot of sense to me, as the way BNs will be elected is good to determine modding skill, but doesn't make sure that the BNs are able to keep up good attitude in the daily BNG-life. Following the CoC etc. etc. is an important matter, too.
Beatmap Nominator acknowledgement
Good
Beatmap Nominator rewards
Good
Divisions
As stated in this paragraph itself, it does need some further thoughts about how it will be implemented in future, hence why I need to think about it further as well. Teams are a good approach, but as of right now, I feel like some divisions don't work out as intended. While certain people are very active, others are not - and this is were motivation levels can be influenced in a negative way. The whole thing with the rewards should not be division based, as I've stated somewhere else as well. These kind of rewards push competition where there shouldn't be, hence why they shouldn't be a thing in the first place. People are too diverse in terms of activity and motivation!
QAT changes
Looking forward to the report a beatmap button. Not quite sure how to understand it, but what do you mean with divisions in this case? It's an interesting thought that certain divisions check certain maps, but it would increase the workload of the BNG immensely (if you mean these kind of divisions) - I'm unsure as of how this will be received.
What I hope most is that the QAT-role won't be degraded to administrational stuff any longer.
QAT rewards
Good
Returning agency
Okay
tldr: While I agree with many points stated, some things still need more thoughts. Generally, it's going into an interesting direction though!
Change was needed, and I'm glad to see that stuff is moving right now.
My turn.
If i remember right several things like colored names were discussed already in the past but never made it into live because of reasons.
The new reporting system sounds cool. I would totally give it a try. It would also be easier to handle DQ then so green light to this point from me.
Letting BN vote in this: Bad.
The QAT leadership should be decided only within the QAT itself. There are like.. 5 times so many BNs as QATs so this could end very fast in a popularity contest. The one who is most popular gets leader. But overall i'm all in for this. I'm all in for someone to poke me all two days with a stick i shall do something here and there. Having a leader who organize stuff properly will be cool
Oh and to the QAT rewards, i guess no one of us has something against it, correct me if i'm wrong xP
Overall green light for most of the changes
Current BN tiering system is dissolved and replaced with a 1-2 month probationary system with provisions for promotion/demotion based on conductI for real can't tell much to the Tier System because it was only a osu! thing. But from my view i support this idea. And like Irre said above, "Following the CoC etc. etc. is an important matter, too."
Long, consistently serving BN will receive a special title which they may choose to wear upon their retirement from the team. This will apply retroactively to all qualifying, currently-retired BN.Absolute support this. BN's do a ton of work for osu! and their community, everyone put his free time into this voluntary hobby. Some rewards for their work should have happend already long ago xP
--
The most active BN will be determined every 6 months via a composite consideration of successfully qualified beatmaps and overall modding activity, and will receive the Elite Nominator title plus suitable accolades for their efforts.
If i remember right several things like colored names were discussed already in the past but never made it into live because of reasons.
Divisions will receive more attention and reworking by members of the QAT to better reflect active participation in them by those who are interested.Hmm.. with "by those who are interested" you mean you want to make participation into BN division optional? If so i don't know if this is such a good idea. Divisons should get a part of the BNG Membership for the sake of the community. Within division the BN's work closer together and have someone to ask if needed without bigger trouble. A highlight is enough. Right now the division thing is running actually pretty cool and smooth (Maybe just some are a bit inactive but then just drop a whip there).
QAT will be freed from administrative obligation (regarding busywork and the like) and will be encouraged to check qualified maps of their own volition again. A new reporting system will be linked to the internal QAT channels, allowing them to fill their primary obligation as members of the team - to respond to complaints about improperly qualified maps.As far i know we were never discouraged to check qualify maps. We always could do that, just not DQ on our own when for playability changes. I as example did check a lot of maps since the reporting system started and did disqualify them if something was against the RC. For massive playability stuff i just did drop a mod if necessary and asked an other QAT to look over it.
The new reporting system sounds cool. I would totally give it a try. It would also be easier to handle DQ then so green light to this point from me.
QAT will be encouraged to consider minimalist revisions of the current Ranking Criteria to promote higher quality beatmaps whilst also removing unnecessary roadblocks to alternate mapping styles entering RankedI put a big "Under Construction" sign here. A rework of the ranking criteria for all modes is currently going on.
The de-facto leadership of the QAT will be determined by applicants expressing their interest, and placing themselves before a combined vote of the BN and QAT. The top two applicants will be considered as the QAT leadership, and will work closely with a member of the osu! team (myself, currently) to see the day-to-day affairs of running the team kept in order, and also to tackle any issues that may arise.QAT leader: Good
Letting BN vote in this: Bad.
The QAT leadership should be decided only within the QAT itself. There are like.. 5 times so many BNs as QATs so this could end very fast in a popularity contest. The one who is most popular gets leader. But overall i'm all in for this. I'm all in for someone to poke me all two days with a stick i shall do something here and there. Having a leader who organize stuff properly will be cool
Oh and to the QAT rewards, i guess no one of us has something against it, correct me if i'm wrong xP
Overall green light for most of the changes
Exactly, I don't want to have a leader who never communicate with us.Monstrata wrote:
Also, I'd rather have a QAT in charge that is popular and can get along with the BN ecosystem than a QAT who might be "better" (very subjective too) at their job, but has very little support from the people they want to lead. You only fear the QAT leadership will become dysfunctional because the unpopular QAT's (You, Cryptic, Doyak etc...) won't have a chance compared to pishifat/oko/maybe kwan if shes staying. But do you really think they will create a dysfunctional leadership? What criteria do you think determines a good QAT leader? And why do you fear that other QAT members might not meet that criteria?
Also I feels that saying the BNs shouldn't vote isn't any different to a communist country selecting who are the only allowed to vote :p, anyways I always disliked to have a Leader who we didn't choicer and also that never try to communicate.
Ephemeral wrote:
- Current BN tiering system is dissolved and replaced with a 1-2 month probationary system with provisions for promotion/demotion based on conduct
thanks, BN tiers was big mistake- BN members receive increased acknowledgement via a forum title and some sort of visual identification (currently a purple name a la MAT). This particular point is temporary and will not carry over into the 'moddingv2' version of the Beatmap Nominators.
Why temporary? tbh I never understand why you guys never notice that BNs are the ones who keep the game running, make this permanent- The most active BN will be determined every 6 months via a composite consideration of successfully qualified beatmaps and overall modding activity, and will receive the Elite Nominator title plus suitable accolades for their efforts.
I really don't like to have ranking system, it's better to have rewards tbh- Divisions will receive more attention and reworking by members of the QAT to better reflect active participation in them by those who are interested.
I'm happy to work with a team, but being honest my experience with division is bad, for example in the last month I made 23 icons vs 13 from the other 5 members, I think a rework is needed, maybe an activity balance? I really don't like using discord and I'd prefer if we keep using the forum instead of an external app (but that's just me, maybe?)
i agree with most of the proposal except for the bn rewards. i think the current bn scoring system should go through more discussion since activity is not really the best way to measure how well a bn is doing in my opinion.
activity is certainly a point to take into account though it might be problematic if the score is solely based on activity, people could end up rushing maps through the ranking process because there's currently no penalty for doing it wrong. that being said i'd like to suggest some points that i consider a proficient bn should be doing and could be taken into consideration for an eventual bn score.
tl:dr: i'm in support for the changes as long as the scoring is not solely based on activity
activity is certainly a point to take into account though it might be problematic if the score is solely based on activity, people could end up rushing maps through the ranking process because there's currently no penalty for doing it wrong. that being said i'd like to suggest some points that i consider a proficient bn should be doing and could be taken into consideration for an eventual bn score.
- Knowledge of the ranking criteria and modding in general: it's pretty obvious that bn's should be proficient in modding though as the tests are now gone, there will be no way to know who is the most proficient when it comes to these points. i'd suggest to bring the tests back, and take the test score as a percentage for the final score. QATs could track who needs assistance and help them to improve. (this would also encourage you to improve your modding skills)
- Activity: this is kind of a delicate thing to talk about, it's true that bns should be active, though, people with a lot of connections might be benefited from this more than others. let's put it this way: if you're friend with a lot of proficient mappers, you could tell them to exclusively ask you for icons so it may end up not working as intended
- Helping new mappers: this was supposedly already a thing on the old system so there's nothing much to add. bns should be helping new mappers to get their map ranked (accordingly, it should be added into the score )
- Behavior: this would be sort of a base score, and it would be discounted depending on your faults as a bn (things like violating the code of conduct, or simply breaking the bn rules)
- Teamwork: this is related to divisions, i think the current system leaves you alone to work with your teammates, there isn't really an objective to work for, i think divisions could be separated into different tasks, for instance, a division task would be to check maps from new mappers,check qualified maps, help new modders to get into the bng etc, i think it would also bring variety to the bng, as you could join a division depending on what you like to do the most
tl:dr: i'm in support for the changes as long as the scoring is not solely based on activity
Yeah, well
Anyway, I'm fine with this.
Current BN tiering system is dissolved and replaced with a 1-2 month probationary system with provisions for promotion/demotion based on conductMy only concern with the tiering system was the lack of clear indicator which shows who belongs where. But actually, I'm fine with this proposal at the moment.
BN members receive increased acknowledgment via a forum title and some sort of visual identification (currently a purple name a la MAT). This particular point is temporary and will not carry over into the 'moddingv2' version of the Beatmap Nominators.As I was a part of the newBAT and I was there when the red color disappeared and I was among the fighters who wanted some indicator what shows that he/she does something useful for the community and helps the mappers finding someone who can move their maps forward. I still remember when Loctav said that color won't be a thing then when the badges appeared I remember we requested to make it seeable everywhere on the forum, this never happened as well. Ever since I became a QAT we brought up this topic several times but nothing happened because of reasons, now you come with the same, one hundred times spoken idea saying it could be a thing. I'm not against this just feels weird because BNs are waiting for something like this for 3 (or more) years already.
Long, consistently serving BN will receive a special title which they may choose to wear upon their retirement from the team. This will apply retroactively to all qualifying, currently-retired BN.I totally support this.
--
The most active BN will be determined every 6 months via a composite consideration of successfully qualified beatmaps and overall modding activity and will receive the Elite Nominator title plus suitable accolades for their efforts.
Divisions will receive more attention and reworking by members of the QAT to better reflect active participation in them by those who are interested."those who are interested"? It shouldn't be optional in my opinion. Better to help out the new recruits in a smaller team than leaving them on their own. The division system is good just needs more attention than they got in the past.
QAT will be freed from administrative obligation (regarding busywork and the like) and will be encouraged to check qualified maps of their own volition again. A new reporting system will be linked to the internal QAT channels, allowing them to fill their primary obligation as members of the team - to respond to complaints about improperly qualified maps.We were never discouraged to not check them and we were never limited to administrative work but you must keep in mind that a few of us has a little to no time to actually participate into the ranking so that might be the reason it felt like we are not allowed to do so. Anyway, I really like the idea of the reporting system although the thread already served that purpose.
QAT will be encouraged to consider minimalist revisions of the current Ranking Criteria to promote higher quality beatmaps whilst also removing unnecessary roadblocks to alternate mapping styles entering RankedThe current criteria can't be considered as strict, there is no limit for alternate mapping styles. It mostly blocks the game breakers and the useless stuff. The revision is on-going anyway so this feels useless.
The de-facto leadership of the QAT will be determined by applicants expressing their interest, and placing themselves before a combined vote of the BN and QAT. The top two applicants will be considered as the QAT leadership, and will work closely with a member of the osu! team (myself, currently) to see the day-to-day affairs of running the team kept in order, and also to tackle any issues that may arise.Having a leader is good but actually, I do not know why should the BNs be allowed to vote. I mean, they will get little to no benefit from doing so. The QAT is basically the leader of the BNs anyway. I do not have time to be a leader and I rather go back to modding anyway so I do not really mind but it feels weird.
Anyway, I'm fine with this.
Topic Starter
Just so people know - this won't stall like the Loved discussion. The QAT have 2 weeks since the date this thread was posted to determine for themselves whether they wish to go ahead with the proposal or not. I'm pushing them to get their thoughts out sooner (as you might've noticed in the thread) so we can get the ball rolling on all this.
Regardless of how it goes (even though it looks fairly heavily leaning towards 'yes, we're going ahead with this' at the moment), something will happen on the 18th of September, no questions asked. Be it the proposal going ahead, or the QAT publicly declaring that they are choosing not to go ahead with it. Hopefully, it'll happen a lot sooner.
Regardless of how it goes (even though it looks fairly heavily leaning towards 'yes, we're going ahead with this' at the moment), something will happen on the 18th of September, no questions asked. Be it the proposal going ahead, or the QAT publicly declaring that they are choosing not to go ahead with it. Hopefully, it'll happen a lot sooner.
Hope this goes through. Some transparency is helpful. The tier system is really a roadblock to us commoner mappers. BNs and QATs deserve some recognition and rewards as it is already considered as contributing to the game. The rest are more internal so I'll not go into that much.
I have no opinion on the tiering system as it didn't affect the gamemode I am part of. I'm okay with the probationary period.Ephemeral wrote:
Current BN tiering system is dissolved and replaced with a 1-2 month probationary system with provisions for promotion/demotion based on conduct
I've read from you and other members of the staff that the BNs are extremely important to the game. This seems to conflict with how little recognition and reward BNs currently receive. While the stuff mentioned above is an attempt, it's still inadequate. The color name is completely pointless if it's temporary, especially with moddingv2 coming supposedly soon. I'm not really keen on the idea of having a competition - because, whatever thing you want to factor in in the formula, it's still a competition - to give some sort of mid-term reward. As other have mentioned, a monthly osu!supporter tag could be well received, as it's something far more concrete. This, along with the title thing - which I'm okay with - levels the rewards for the BNG with the current situation for the QATs (which is, according to the proposal, getting a buff, too).Ephemeral wrote:
- BN members receive increased acknowledgement via a forum title and some sort of visual identification (currently a purple name a la MAT). This particular point is temporary and will not carry over into the 'moddingv2' version of the Beatmap Nominators.
- Long, consistently serving BN will receive a special title which they may choose to wear upon their retirement from the team. This will apply retroactively to all qualifying, currently-retired BN.
- The most active BN will be determined every 6 months via a composite consideration of successfully qualified beatmaps and overall modding activity, and will receive the Elite Nominator title plus suitable accolades for their efforts.
This is way too abstract and not concrete, so I'm not commenting on this. I just wanted to say that I thought since day one that the subdivisions, at least for catch, were not going to work and I'm glad we've been merged again.Ephemeral wrote:
Divisions will receive more attention and reworking by members of the QAT to better reflect active participation in them by those who are interested.
The reporting system sounds cool. As other have mentioned, it must include something to state the reasons for the report (I don't know how "mods" post qualification are going to be handled in moddingv2).Ephemeral wrote:
QAT will be freed from administrative obligation (regarding busywork and the like) and will be encouraged to check qualified maps of their own volition again. A new reporting system will be linked to the internal QAT channels, allowing them to fill their primary obligation as members of the team - to respond to complaints about improperly qualified maps.
QATs can, like any other member of the community, already propose additions, removals of modifications to the RC, that go through the respective UBKRC group. Also, I don't think the RC is that strict, at least in catch, to roadblock alternative mapping styles, so there's another reason to consider this unnecessary on my side.Ephemeral wrote:
QAT will be encouraged to consider minimalist revisions of the current Ranking Criteria to promote higher quality beatmaps whilst also removing unnecessary roadblocks to alternate mapping styles entering Ranked
As QATs directly influence the BNG, I personally think the BNG should be able to vote. Obviously, BN votes shouldn't be weighted the same as QAT votes due to the large difference in the amount of members in both groups.Ephemeral wrote:
The de-facto leadership of the QAT will be determined by applicants expressing their interest, and placing themselves before a combined vote of the BN and QAT. The top two applicants will be considered as the QAT leadership, and will work closely with a member of the osu! team (myself, currently) to see the day-to-day affairs of running the team kept in order, and also to tackle any issues that may arise.[/list]
One of the 'unpopular QATs' Monstrata mentioned here.
Dissolution of the current BN tiering system
Nothing against this. I think we need to have a more regular/frequent meeting to report BNs and vote, rather than doing it at random times, or taking 3 months to discuss and vote once. I guess it's something we can decide later, but I'm fine with this in general.
Beatmap Nominator acknowledgement
I'm all for this. I don't know how it was back in the old MAT / BAT system, but the best way to motivate BNs is to make them special. This would highly make BNs to feel their responsibility and be proud of themselves.
I really hope the new website also consider this seriously and apply it in some ways too, so that we can safely move on without arguments.
Beatmap Nominator rewards
To be honest, this reward thing will barely make the BNG active in general. There will be only very few super-active BNs who would work so hard for the rewards. For the others, it's just impossible to get it anyway. And for the 'competitive' BNs, they have to use any methods to get higher score, which could lead to yoloing icons, or only looking for ways to get higher score easily (even if they don't intend to consciously).
The scoring system we're going to implement is far from ideal, and rewarding one person upon such formula can lead to abusing it, rather than motivating people in general. So I'm quite hesitant on this one.
Divisions
Working as smaller groups has both good and bad sides. The good side is that the members would feel strong bond with the team members. However, there's a high chance that some of the members are not comfortable with the other members, therefore making the entire division silent and dead. So I'm good with merging groups and also making each BNs to select which team they would like to join in.
QAT changes
Although "QAT will be no longer barred (or discouraged) from bubbling, qualifying, or vetting qualified maps on their own." is not really a valid statement, I like the concept of it.
I'm fine with the 'report this map' button thing, but still it should contain a field to explain the reason of reporting, and further discussion between the reporter and the mapper should be continued.
The new specific ranking criteria is already quite loose and I don't really see much need to simplify it even further. We're already working on some anyway.
For the other things, yeah I think it's alright.
QAT rewards
I'm happy with it. Hope I can get that reward of course.
Returning agency
Good with this one too. It's good for both BN/QAT to construct a large group that manages the beatmapping community, and we want more communication between us. Therefore it's necessary to let BNs also participate in voting the QAT leaders so that the majority of the members can be satisfied with the selection.
I hope the "staff" have more interest on the team and try to communicate with us however, even if they don't directly lead the team or anything.
Dissolution of the current BN tiering system
Nothing against this. I think we need to have a more regular/frequent meeting to report BNs and vote, rather than doing it at random times, or taking 3 months to discuss and vote once. I guess it's something we can decide later, but I'm fine with this in general.
Beatmap Nominator acknowledgement
I'm all for this. I don't know how it was back in the old MAT / BAT system, but the best way to motivate BNs is to make them special. This would highly make BNs to feel their responsibility and be proud of themselves.
I really hope the new website also consider this seriously and apply it in some ways too, so that we can safely move on without arguments.
Beatmap Nominator rewards
To be honest, this reward thing will barely make the BNG active in general. There will be only very few super-active BNs who would work so hard for the rewards. For the others, it's just impossible to get it anyway. And for the 'competitive' BNs, they have to use any methods to get higher score, which could lead to yoloing icons, or only looking for ways to get higher score easily (even if they don't intend to consciously).
The scoring system we're going to implement is far from ideal, and rewarding one person upon such formula can lead to abusing it, rather than motivating people in general. So I'm quite hesitant on this one.
Divisions
Working as smaller groups has both good and bad sides. The good side is that the members would feel strong bond with the team members. However, there's a high chance that some of the members are not comfortable with the other members, therefore making the entire division silent and dead. So I'm good with merging groups and also making each BNs to select which team they would like to join in.
QAT changes
Although "QAT will be no longer barred (or discouraged) from bubbling, qualifying, or vetting qualified maps on their own." is not really a valid statement, I like the concept of it.
I'm fine with the 'report this map' button thing, but still it should contain a field to explain the reason of reporting, and further discussion between the reporter and the mapper should be continued.
The new specific ranking criteria is already quite loose and I don't really see much need to simplify it even further. We're already working on some anyway.
For the other things, yeah I think it's alright.
QAT rewards
I'm happy with it. Hope I can get that reward of course.
Returning agency
Good with this one too. It's good for both BN/QAT to construct a large group that manages the beatmapping community, and we want more communication between us. Therefore it's necessary to let BNs also participate in voting the QAT leaders so that the majority of the members can be satisfied with the selection.
I hope the "staff" have more interest on the team and try to communicate with us however, even if they don't directly lead the team or anything.
QAT Engagement
This was one of my biggest concerns in the last years - the suppression of the QATs by holding them back for the solely purpose of moderating and not interacting with the BNs on bigger projects at all to make them less dependent on the QAT. This caused however many of the already problems people mentioned in this thread which is probably also one of the reasons why this has been losend up in the past several months. I'm not exactly sure about osu!, but that definitely happened for Taiko, and BNs as well as QATs tried to stay in contact nonetheless because of concerns people raised. Because of this I'm happy this gets lifted.
Transparency
As mentioned above, BN and QAT from the mode Taiko were somewhat in contact, however, when it's a matter of transparency, then information have hold off for some time till it was certain what is going to happen and I would rather go on with that way to avoid any confusen or spread false information. Same goes for topics that influence the BNG in itself where I would discuss it first internally as the staff has more insight about certain processes and can filter out obstacles right at the beginning before opening a raw discussion to the BNs - what I basically say is that we would just be a filter for a better flow of discussion.
Dissolution of the current BN tiering system
It's basically the same we had in the past with the MAT/BAT system and which worked quite good. I can agree with this change however, I think it makes more sense that the probation period should always be 2 months. During this time BN should prove themselves without any big incidences. In this time people get used to them too and they get used to to system itself which goes in the direction of the golden rule "wait 1 week before you bubble anything". It also shows if they can actually hold their activity for at least 2 months and would be an indicator to how they might go on in the future. I also oppose the idea of adding new BNs within less than 2 months because of the question how to determine when one is ready to become earlier a BN than another.
Full members may be reduced to the probationary level at any time by QAT consensus if their conduct is deemed unacceptable, or they repeatedly make large mistakes or oversights is something I fully agree with but then the QAT must become stricter in such cases. Currently most of us do not moderate at all and discussions about misconduct from some BNs do not happen either. It even goes so far that most QATs do not have mod privileges in disqus which is contadicting in itself. What I am saying is simply, the QAT must start from itself becoming more active in this matter and maybe even go so far to work with the BNs together in this matter for a more open environment (the taiko group does it somewhat in this way at times and it seems to work).
QAT rewards
I can agree with this as well as with the BN rewards. What I would like to suggest though is to have a similar right as the long-serving BN (>1.5 years) [who] will qualify for a special title which they may choose to have applied to their account when they retire. It leans toward the right to choose whether you want to go with the osu! Alumni title or osu!(mode) Alumni. This suggestion rather comes from own preference to be honest since myself always worked for the past 5 years only for osu!taiko so it makes sense to be labeled as such. Maybe other QATs feel the same. Maybe not. But felt like mentioning it.
Returning agency
The top scoring aspirants will be considered the de-facto QAT leadership, though they may number no greater than two. I just want to ask for clarification: Does that mean there can be two QAT-leaders? That's how I understood it right from the beginning but #qat discussions lean towards one leader so far.
Overall I didn't said much as I planed to in the first days since I voiced up most of my concerns in #qat before which are pretty much mentioned in this thread by other members already. As for the whole change, I give it my greenlight. It's the right step in the right directions which has been suggested by many staff and community members for several times in the past.
This was one of my biggest concerns in the last years - the suppression of the QATs by holding them back for the solely purpose of moderating and not interacting with the BNs on bigger projects at all to make them less dependent on the QAT. This caused however many of the already problems people mentioned in this thread which is probably also one of the reasons why this has been losend up in the past several months. I'm not exactly sure about osu!, but that definitely happened for Taiko, and BNs as well as QATs tried to stay in contact nonetheless because of concerns people raised. Because of this I'm happy this gets lifted.
Transparency
As mentioned above, BN and QAT from the mode Taiko were somewhat in contact, however, when it's a matter of transparency, then information have hold off for some time till it was certain what is going to happen and I would rather go on with that way to avoid any confusen or spread false information. Same goes for topics that influence the BNG in itself where I would discuss it first internally as the staff has more insight about certain processes and can filter out obstacles right at the beginning before opening a raw discussion to the BNs - what I basically say is that we would just be a filter for a better flow of discussion.
Dissolution of the current BN tiering system
It's basically the same we had in the past with the MAT/BAT system and which worked quite good. I can agree with this change however, I think it makes more sense that the probation period should always be 2 months. During this time BN should prove themselves without any big incidences. In this time people get used to them too and they get used to to system itself which goes in the direction of the golden rule "wait 1 week before you bubble anything". It also shows if they can actually hold their activity for at least 2 months and would be an indicator to how they might go on in the future. I also oppose the idea of adding new BNs within less than 2 months because of the question how to determine when one is ready to become earlier a BN than another.
Full members may be reduced to the probationary level at any time by QAT consensus if their conduct is deemed unacceptable, or they repeatedly make large mistakes or oversights is something I fully agree with but then the QAT must become stricter in such cases. Currently most of us do not moderate at all and discussions about misconduct from some BNs do not happen either. It even goes so far that most QATs do not have mod privileges in disqus which is contadicting in itself. What I am saying is simply, the QAT must start from itself becoming more active in this matter and maybe even go so far to work with the BNs together in this matter for a more open environment (the taiko group does it somewhat in this way at times and it seems to work).
QAT rewards
I can agree with this as well as with the BN rewards. What I would like to suggest though is to have a similar right as the long-serving BN (>1.5 years) [who] will qualify for a special title which they may choose to have applied to their account when they retire. It leans toward the right to choose whether you want to go with the osu! Alumni title or osu!(mode) Alumni. This suggestion rather comes from own preference to be honest since myself always worked for the past 5 years only for osu!taiko so it makes sense to be labeled as such. Maybe other QATs feel the same. Maybe not. But felt like mentioning it.
Returning agency
The top scoring aspirants will be considered the de-facto QAT leadership, though they may number no greater than two. I just want to ask for clarification: Does that mean there can be two QAT-leaders? That's how I understood it right from the beginning but #qat discussions lean towards one leader so far.
Overall I didn't said much as I planed to in the first days since I voiced up most of my concerns in #qat before which are pretty much mentioned in this thread by other members already. As for the whole change, I give it my greenlight. It's the right step in the right directions which has been suggested by many staff and community members for several times in the past.
Topic Starter
As a supermajority consensus on the Upheaval has been reached by the QAT, we will be proceeding with the changes listed in this proposal and applying them as soon as possible.
The BN tiering will be abolished in the coming days, to be replaced with the probationary system. We will also begin polling for the QAT/BN leadership during the coming weekend.
Thank you to anyone who posted feedback or concerns - we will be considering them when applying these changes going forward.
The BN tiering will be abolished in the coming days, to be replaced with the probationary system. We will also begin polling for the QAT/BN leadership during the coming weekend.
Thank you to anyone who posted feedback or concerns - we will be considering them when applying these changes going forward.
ignorant person here, asking: what this means?
Since others asked the same question and there's not much context here for the average player, here's a light summary
Tiers
A couple months ago, standard mode BNs were tested and split into tiers based on results
Tier 1 BNs can only bubble maps, tier 2 can bubble and qualify
Nobody liked that so it's gone, all current BNs are now tier 2 (ie same as before tiers)
New BNs will be tier 1 for about a month. If they don't do anything bad they get tier 2
QAT
QAT is becoming more transparent about what they're doing
They will check the qualified section more often, like before
The way someone becomes QAT is no longer just decided by staff/other qat, will take community opinion/votes
Rewards
BNs will have purple names, like the old BAT
The most active BN every x months gets another title
That's a really basic summary, it's mainly the changes that will affect the average player
Tiers
A couple months ago, standard mode BNs were tested and split into tiers based on results
Tier 1 BNs can only bubble maps, tier 2 can bubble and qualify
Nobody liked that so it's gone, all current BNs are now tier 2 (ie same as before tiers)
New BNs will be tier 1 for about a month. If they don't do anything bad they get tier 2
QAT
QAT is becoming more transparent about what they're doing
They will check the qualified section more often, like before
The way someone becomes QAT is no longer just decided by staff/other qat, will take community opinion/votes
Rewards
BNs will have purple names, like the old BAT
The most active BN every x months gets another title
That's a really basic summary, it's mainly the changes that will affect the average player
In addition, long-serving BN (>1.5 years) will qualify for a special title which they may choose to have applied to their account when they retire. What this will be is still being considered, but probably something involving community and modding somehow.
Long, consistently serving BN will receive a special title which they may choose to wear upon their retirement from the team. This will apply retroactively to all qualifying, currently-retired BN.Question, if this proposed change applied on the future - will the old BNs before the change get the costum forum title on their retirement as well? Or the custom title only applied on current and upcoming BNs member? I just ask for fairness, because I think there's some BNs on past that deserved recognition as well on what they do on moderating maps.
Yes, it was stated that it would be applied ex post facto.
It says that in the post you quoted o.o
It says that in the post you quoted o.o
That's good to hear then, I thought it was mean "the current BNs until they retired" haha :p
MAT* :3Sinnoh wrote:
Rewards
BNs will have purple names, like the old BAT
*-* woah
1 year 2 month for me, well.. that was close.. it was good old time x-x
1 year 2 month for me, well.. that was close.. it was good old time x-x
Maxylan wrote:
Also, If I were a BN I'd love to have more filtering options for the pending beat maps listings, and more incentive to push maps made by newer players to ranked standards without as much fear of backlash from QAT (within reasonable limits, of course, I'm not suggesting we should incentivise them to bubble maps that are low quality but I'm saying if a map is a good quality it shouldn't have to rot for months in the pending beat maps section just because the mapper is unknown and the sheer volume of maps constantly being uploaded).
Me personally if I ever feel like random-modding something at this point I ain't got nothing to work on other than SP (which doesn't always speak for map quality) and the reputation of the mapper who made it, and I dislike the fact that mappers with a reputation can breeze through ranked while there's still maps several months or even years old in the pending beat maps page who's only got 2-3 views by BN's. I feel like more filtering options for beat maps in the pending beat maps listing would help find maps worthwhile a watch both for community members such as myself and BN's who's actual "job" it is to promote content suitable for ranked. The additional incentive to find and push high-quality maps made by aspiring mappers should also make the ranking process more enjoyable for aspiring mappers because currently, it feels like an uphill battle for respect in every way imaginable.
I think the biggest motivation for anyone to help make a map ranked is that they like the song. It would be nice to have more filtering options for song genre in pending maps. It would be even better to implement a subscription system so you can receive update when a new map of tag/genre you like is ready for BN check.
I think BN/QAT should be paid more, not with supporter status but real money so they can have more time to rank maps. Osu is a community driven game, and BN/QAT are the core of that community. You need to satisfy the core before you can satisfy the rest.
In that case, why not paying the most active mappers? They're producing content for the game too.dudehacker wrote:
I think BN/QAT should be paid more, not with supporter status but real money so they can have more time to rank maps. Osu is a community driven game, and BN/QAT are the core of that community. You need to satisfy the core before you can satisfy the rest.
I think a permanently supporter is enough.
since BN/QAT looks like a volunteer and also anyone would be able to do it. wonder if spend money for supportertag per month, is that not expensive? so I think its enough to get something such permanent supportertag or acknowledgment. if paid with money, it more like doing something for job. I guess theres people that working at development for this game and will be get the real paid. real money only for people with their skills as job.
Topic Starter
BN tiers have been officially abolished and the QAT leadership vote is currently underway with 3 candidates.
good luck to all BNs <3
Eldergleam
i agree with this, because some of BN's lost their motivation after being pick up in BN list (after 3 or 4 month)dudehacker wrote:
I think BN/QAT should be paid more, not with supporter status but real money so they can have more time to rank maps. Osu is a community driven game, and BN/QAT are the core of that community. You need to satisfy the core before you can satisfy the rest.
Considering that osu! is free to play I wonder where you think that money is supposed to come from.Eldergleam wrote:
i agree with this, because some of BN's lost their motivation after being pick up in BN list (after 3 or 4 month)dudehacker wrote:
I think BN/QAT should be paid more, not with supporter status but real money so they can have more time to rank maps. Osu is a community driven game, and BN/QAT are the core of that community. You need to satisfy the core before you can satisfy the rest.
Topic Starter
JBHyperion and Okorin have been voted in as the QAT/BN leadership.
The Beatmap Nominators now have additional presence on the forums and appropriate titles to match.
The Upheaval is progressing well!
The Beatmap Nominators now have additional presence on the forums and appropriate titles to match.
The Upheaval is progressing well!
good to start those who are in charge of the BN maps are sometimes not all occupied of the 1 single map 2 people checking, also when you create 1 map in 90% of cases you always find 1 error that can cost you expensive at the time of the mapping and almost always the BN have to take care of that along with the QAT however the causes are not so much of the user but of the system that already comes in the game and the version at the time of the mapping 1 error sometimes it costs to fix already that all the maps that I have played and I have seen its configuration and they contain 1 or 3 errors but they are ranked besides the current configuration there are some errors as much as the laster and the fallback to begin I suggest that they verify the errors of the game and of programming since that is that it gives more work to map and more work for BN and QAT to solve the problems that had during the construction of the map currently.
@emmanuel9: could you please reword this post in a way that reading it is understandable to like native english speakers - i've asked some and no one knows what you're even trying to say.
i think he's trying to say that when someone finds an error on a map it costs you some time to fix it so you have to recheck with BNs/QATs, but he says these errors aren't due to the mapper and he's seen maps with errors and they're ranked so he's suggesting to fix these errors on the game's code itself, as it gives BNs and QATs more work to do
i dont know lol, he didn't use punctuation so its a lot harder to try and understand him. (tbh i don't get what he's saying, what does he mean it's the game code's fault lol)
i dont know lol, he didn't use punctuation so its a lot harder to try and understand him. (tbh i don't get what he's saying, what does he mean it's the game code's fault lol)