forum

[ELECTIONS RESULTS!!!!!] OT!Elections 2025

posted
Total Posts
394
show more
abraker

z0z wrote:

this place has no economy other than social interaction
not yet
Corne2Plum3

Question 7 wrote:

What do you plan for the denizen system? If keeping it what would you do with it? (So far it has almost only ever been used for elections)
I think there was good ideas with Patatitta OT!Eras, however it's not really perfect, such as handling people between 2 years and I feel like it's been used to exclude inactive OT!users, which I think it shouldn't be. I think I'd keep the denizen system in place, but with objective criteria, as Patatitta was looking for, to avoid drama. It may change but I'd set the requirements as:
  1. 300 posts, including 30 within the previous month.
  2. 3 months since first post
  3. 1 created thread
You may think this does lower the bar to be denizen but I'm totally okay with it. I feel like these 6 months requirements are too high and really separate the denizens into 2 groups, and exclude some who actually deserved at some point. For diving denizens into groups/generation, either per year or per president. I don't want a "elitist" title as denizen. Maybe if people want a "elite" list, of people who changed OT significantly, then why not, but the problem is, how you can objective here? I'm open for suggestions.


Question 8 wrote:

What normative ethical framework guides you, whether it be religiously ordained or otherwise?
None 🐺

If it's about my "ethical framework" as president, it would be the interest of OT as a whole, not putting my own interest in priority. This is how I always acted (even without being president), even as GMT. I'm not GMT to take over of OT or anything but because OT was lacking of GMT, and it could have been in long term the end of OT (or maybe not, but who knows?).


Question 9 wrote:

Will you host events if you were to win?, If the answer is yes, what events have you hosted WITHOUT being president?
Weird question to talk about future and if answering yes, talking about the past.

Let's talk about the past project I made. I hosted the succesful OT!Skin, or other ideas such as Google Docs public documents or the OT! OC collab in collaboration with LostSiver a few times after my fursona reveal . I was also very active in the OT!Book and it's sequel, and on very important event, I can be here and to help making others' events a success and fun for everyone. I also made some epic threads during the RP eras such as the french osu! shop or OT! currrency design. There are for sure other projects I didn't mentionned here, some with success, and some with failure.

Whatever RP will be back or not, I can be creative and make some very good events where people have fun. For ideas I have:
  1. OT!Skin collab 2, it's been 4 years already...
  2. A card game (like pokemon) but with OT! denizen. I already did this before but failed because the rules were too complicated...
  3. Maybe a new version of the OT!Book if people are motivated, in a more restricted area (no magic, demons, explosions, etc.)
  4. I'll try a few RP threads and if they fails, well I'll consider RP dead but this won't stop me
  5. And more...
Those are collaborative projects that everyone can join, to unite people, which is fun, really. I did take part to some epic threads and I still want to do that again.

I can do this without being president tho. If I was president, I'd try to make denizens more actors of the governement and how OT is going, and not just watching what's the governement do in their private group. I'll organize more vote, more choice to people to decide what they wants for OT and its future.


Question 10 wrote:

Do we need an OT! government nowadays? If yes, what powers the president should have?
Depends of what OT!governement is. It is just RP and/or a counter power against GMT? I've seen both since I'm GMT in 2023...

If it's just RP, I'd say no because I feel like it caused more harm than good. We have people very involved, and taking this (too?) seriously (see the shitshow during the 2 first days of these current elections, and yeah, I know I wasn't good regarding that point either)... If it's to have a counter-power against GMT, I'm divided. I feel like this is a bit overkill for a shitposting subforum, and we aren't in a context where it's raining locks (remember Stefan last year, or even with abraker years ago). I think with how I handle the forums, maybe it's unnecessary, as I'm trying to locks and delete posts/threads when it's really needed, cases where the gov can't even intervene.

But in another side, hearing the feedback from people can help me in the others pointing out what I'm doing wrong, and thus in a process of improvement, which is benefical for both parts. Seriously I did so much shit at the beginning of my GMT role. (and I duuno how I didn't got fired after nearly 2 years lol) I'm not against getting yelled at when it's really needed, even if it's not making me happy. So at this point, I'm okay to keep that "report" thread that Patatitta made, and if I really want to be a moron, I could just ignore it.

And about what powers a president should have, not subtitute a GMT for sure, they don't really have the competences and not always have all elements when action should be taken. They can contest some decisions, on not severe cases, but not severe ones. (to give an idea (not absolute), when silences are given or when threads wastelanded) I'm personally doing my best to not abuse my moderation powers. And they also shouldn't be able to bend rules of the system without or with little discussion, at least everyone should be able to discuss it. For RP, I'm fine the president can do whatever he wants as long this isn't used to create drama or "crush" people because of a f*cking title which has (almost) no value, for real!


Question 11 wrote:

Do you think GMTs should be able to be president and why?
I don't see the GMT role and the president role as mutually exclusive. abraker had both roles at the same time (more exactly, he became GMT during his presidency) and it went well, not too much drama, overall it worked!

I can understand that some people doesn't see well this idea of a GMT president, but what if at some point people want that? Not wanting a governement and all the drama that slow down in some sense the moderation, and just people and GMTs like a normal forum? And if they don't want, I want to them to at least having the choice, and if they don't want, they just vote someone else, as simple as that. Why being so aggressive and preventing at all cost a GMT being president? In 2024 this wasn't even an issue...

I can't tell about the plans of other GMTs if they eventually become denizen, but I promise, I swear, that I won't use the governement to assert some sort of dominance, to my interest only, but for everyone. I don't want to be seen as a god or "the face of OT" or any shitty title you come with. And a dictatorship RP doesn't interest me at all, I don't want that! At least, I'd like to show you that yes, GMT + president role is possible without things go wrong.


Question 12 wrote:

Your opinions on Patatitta's presidency, whatever it's about their behavior or their actions taken? (WITHOUT BEING SALTY)
For behaviour, I'm clearly not happy of Patatitta's behavior, and I've spat enough (probably too much) at him, so I won't spend any more time saying what I thought was wrong. But I do think there's still room for improvement. At least despite the bad experience I personnaly had the whole year, things got done. So I'll just say that with more transparancy, less stubborn and arrogant behaviour, he would have been a very great president.

Because beyond his behaviour, I do think the actions taken as president are good, or very good sometimes. There was genuinely good idea to implement new stuff and changes to OT, some very interesting and exiting changes in a OT a bit "sleepy" and "boring" as some may think, after the gov being inactive during 2022-2023. About the actions I don't really have criticism about the result, really.
Topic Starter
Patatitta
accepted, I just want to make one thing clear, eras is NOT denizen. Eras is my own thread and it has nothing to do with GOV, what is denizen is the thread called "hall of shame", that have a different format and requirements.
Topic Starter
Patatitta
apparently two questions were requested and I missed them, sucks, accepted now, these are the LAST questions that will be accepted into this, you got until saturday to anwer them.
Topic Starter
Patatitta
- Can you send your best thread?

community/forums/topics/1829424?n=1

- What do you think about the OT community? What do you like/dislike about it?

it generally is chill, I dislike when drama arises or when some people throw slurs around like winny when they get heated, or ymir on discord, but everything else is fine, believe me or not I like waifus.
Corne2Plum3

Question 13 wrote:

What's your goals regarding role playing in OT?
Try to bring in back, not forcing too much into the political side of OT (OT!governement, etc.) because it causes more heated discussions than fun. Then, if it fails, I'll just give up. I can't force RP of there are nobody to engage with, and the only way to eventually revive it is new people wanting to RP comes to OT.


Question 15 wrote:

Do you think the government's group chat should be public? (for transparency for example)
Yes, for transparency. The denizens should know what the government is going.


Question 16 wrote:

Should we have more GMTs dedicated to OT? Also, should Corne2Plum3 quit?
I'm not against 1 or 2 more GMTs dedicated to OT. At the moment there's only me and abraker (who's sometimes inactive) who are GMTs especially for OT. And for the 2nd question, I'm not the best placed to answer it.


Question 17 wrote:

What actions should be taken in case of necropost in OT?
I'd delete the reply in addition of locking the thread (without replying), to avoid giving attention to the necroposter, which is sometimes what they're looking for.


Question 18 wrote:

Do you think OT has any problems? If yes, how would you go about fixing them?
I don't think OT as is doesn't have a ton of problem, put aside the government crisis, which isn't really a big issue, thinking about. I'd say there are some toxic users but then the responsibility is for people, not me. However the only thing I can do is doing my job as GMT.
igorsprite

What do you think about the OT community? What do you like/dislike about it?
it's fine. i like when people make more casual threads and talk about their day to day or something that happened recently, but i don't like when people keep forcing some meta
Corne2Plum3

Question 19 wrote:

Can you send your best thread?
I'm hesitating between these two:
  1. community/forums/topics/1246838
  2. community/forums/topics/1527564


Question 20 wrote:

What do you think about the OT community? What do you like/dislike about it?
I think the community is fine, a lot better than what we could except from a shitposting subforum. I find some people annoying but this is a minority. I feel like it's a nice place to act "weird" without being judged too hard.
Achromalia
hi so instead of me answering questions how about i give you art to buy your vote and to stall until any questions are answered :)

(/joking, im acknowledging the rules go unchanged!! but i am lazy so the stalling part is true lol)

quirky off-topic subforum gijinka/mascot draft v1
w/ indecisively mediocre(?) design except that humanoid thing is a thinly veiled [recycled character]

abraker


we got an OT flag before GTA 6
Achromalia
copypasting a thing since its related to the following quote!! >:)

abraker wrote:



we got an OT flag before GTA 6
off-topic characteristics... im not exactly sure yet

i usually think of its interpersonal politics with titles and power and dramatic misunderstandings/objections/grudges, and of mildly polarized gmt-versus-user dynamics when theyre not necessarily at war or anything but people have problems with moderation choices and moderators' personalities/behaviors in general

but i dont really care for stoking that fire unless its an artistic narrative and that dramatized narrative has consequences from validating peoples' opinions or propagandizing something i dont think is even representative of the subforum anyway

some notes:

+ black and dark-grey and brown and burgundy, all of these seem like primary colors to focus on as a theme-- my color choices are really very on-the-nose from the website design and i think it's a fair-enough characteristic feature for representing off-topic users. i hoped to use black/grey/brown for something that "cloaks" or "hides" in the background or as a mundane feature, so hair and eyes and cardigans(?)/jackets seemed ok for that, but i think the actual little puppet mascot at the side would have burgundy eyes or something... in the meanwhile, burgundy would be the primary color of self-expression and taking up attention first and foremost, so i believed it should be "closest to the heart" as well as eyes and lips but i was not really into the secondary parts and left it at eyeshadow

+ yellow for those warnings/silences, using stickers seemed very intuitive and satisfying but then i realized i didnt know what to do with that. people will probably only ever see yellow because of some kind of forum infraction so i bundle it up with the idea of gmt moderation

+ green has been the most difficult for me, because the green is for very different things on the site... green outlines new posts and activity here in the "other" category of subforums, but in current relevant subforum politics we also have gmts who are viewed by some with suspicion. as a result i think of cuffs and collars as sites of control/suffocation, but green buttons are intended to represent both threads new posts (the ring outline) as well as moderator activity (the green dot beside the name of each gmt). notably, buttoning together and veiling the red-and-blue "expression and freedom" under the cardigan/jacket seemed intuitive to me

+ blue is the second-most difficult, because by now the color palette is a lot harder to organize and balance appealingly, but blue is typically representing normal user activity and a few other secondary buttons, so i tried a ton of things with the turtleneck sweater and jacket before settling on a dotted pattern that represents a multitude of individual users and their "dots"

+ for the puppet... the burgundy spiral eye is shaped with the community's dizzy disorganized disposition and the "you can never leave" meme in mind, while the green button eye is a literal button that would revisit the "post" button and the theme of new activity. the collar is probably green and/or yellow again. the "off" of "off-topic" is shaping the eye and the grin because i love doing that with letters, and the grin is stitched up because it just seemed to fit somehow, meanwhile the turtleneck collar is itself the "t" of "topic" and the zipper could somehow be the "o"

+ for the flag... the same color principles apply, i was super indecisive with it and went through maybe ten or eleven iterations before i gave up and left it with the overlapping green-tab and blue-cursor design, their meanings were hopefully easy enough to infer
sametdze
can you send your best thread?
no because i don't remember any threads of mine that ended up being "my best", OT world cup maybe? i'm quite indecisive on this

what do you think about the OT community? what do you like/dislike about it?
its a fun community, great and funny people, what's not to love? i don't really like the "drama" when two users get heated but eh it all goes away in two days so Ecks Dee!
Topic Starter
Patatitta
thread updated, also moved to phase 3,

Allowed candidates are:

-Patatitta
-Corne2Plum3
-Igorsprite
-Sametdze

the voting procedure is: dm me your vote, and then say in this thread that you voted
Polyspora
what where is achro
Polyspora
all the fucking options are horrible what the fuck lmao
Topic Starter
Patatitta

Polyspora wrote:

what where is achro
dq, only answered 1 question in a whole week like I know they were the fan favourite but come on, even with previous elections rules where you only had to answer 4 questions total they would have been dqed
Reyalp51
i voted and stuff
shame scyla isnt here
sametdze
what if we just didnt vote
Topic Starter
Patatitta

sametdze wrote:

what if we just didnt vote
idk gov cancelled I guess but reyalp already voted also you can selfvote

on that topic, I voted
sametdze
i voted
reffty_gag
it's a shame that achro isn't included......
anyway, can i vote ? nvm, i voted
Achromalia
splitting this into a couple parts...

oh... wait did daylight savings already happen?? i thought i had forty-five more minutes :sob: i didnt know the thread updated either but thats on me for tunnel-visioning

no, even daylight savings is a couple days later, i think i just misremembered what time the deadline was... that's really really cringe :<

i am suddenly not really invested in this anymore, unless there were exceptions for the misunderstanding but i think the rules said it quite clearly and patatitta doesnt seem to be one to make those kinds of exceptions, it's my own fault for procrastinating (and it would likely reflect on my presidency anyway)

maybe a run for parliament would be fine, or i could do things regardless of the government, or actively roleplay a rebellion against it, i'm not really sure

[ question #1: "why are you running for president?" ]

...admittedly, the primary case of my candidacy was my own boredom x')

but it also seemed to me like troubled institutions like denizenship have costed time and attention with ambiguous reward, and concerns about recent gmt behavior/activity had been floating at the forefront for a while with limited apparent benefit to user experience. it seemed to loom and linger rather than being a subject of interest (or rather, those who wrote passionate[?] objections would go on with underwhelming reception) and many more people expressed exhaustion with these issues (introducing absolutist solutions like "drop denizenship entirely", "dissolve government entirely", "drop presidency entirely"). most of anything this subforum's government has ever uniquely been capable of, beyond denizens themselves, appears to be minimal in scope

in essence, i'm another loosely-sentimental "give voting power to the people" candidate, somewhere between patatitta and corne, and flexible toward any of those political directions and perhaps beyond the platforms of either of them depending on contextually-informed communal consensus wherever/whenever it proves to concern us

for patatitta, i imagine the flexibility and lax platform makes it difficult to find what you're looking for from off-topic if i were too aimless or receptive to something diverging from your platform... but i imagine you yourself would continue to have a voice, and i think i'd be sympathetic to your thoughts/concerns from what you've been expressing throughout your time here

for corne, i imagine some cultural and interpersonal contexts make it a bit touchy to address where we stand on the gmt-and-user power-dynamic issue when this imbalance is concentrated in people uniquely capable of enforcing the nature of expression and culture. it's easy enough for me to imagine it being concerning regardless of precedent when you would be someone who has forum-wide discretion to exercise that power, regardless of stated intentions, especially because past behaviors and moderation choices have made it difficult to believe and trust in that promise you're making. but at the same time, i don't really believe that deeply or strongly in "legislating" against it, in a position where our "government" is barely in a position to regulate anything at all. we have limited power to affect moderators beyond report buttons for extreme offenses, of which we normally don't see from anyone in any way

[ question #2: "anything new you have in mind for ot?" ]

i'd characterize my response as mostly being something between wimpy and patatitta... specifically, i'm sympathetic to the belief that events should largely survive on community approval and utility and be freely created and hosted by any of y'all who want to see something and are willing to do something. if there was to be any institutional presence in hosting events, then i'm interested in supplementing community activity with an optional thread-drafting service for brainstorming and supplying aesthetic materials and editing/curating for an intended purpose, possibly also maintaining or refining a service in someone's stead in case they're inactive or busy so that they can catch up a little easier :>

but there's a touch of corne's administrative touch in my thoughts. i'd probably hover over the prospect of formalizing rules and rewriting a modernized constitution, prioritizing clarity with conciseness and ease of application in mind... defining denizenship is not exactly a personal plan but may be included as a result for the sake of consistency and efficiency

either way, i've been describing and expressing myself as "the arts-and-culture candidate", and that's generally something i do believe i could contrast the recent administrative/security focus with. demographics and history and biography, art and music and writing, i will likely be searching for a lot since i'm here a lot anyway and am interested in answering those questions for myself... furthermore, it's probably easier if that pursuit exists as an institution that is given credibility and that others can contribute to :>

i'm sure i would be open to a lot more, it's a bit disappointing that i'm not really listing quite as directly concise of an answer as this would merit in order to really demonstrate what i'd submit for introduction into off-topic daily life, but this is a timed assignment and i'm writing this in last-minute;;

[question #3: "will you exile users who keep making threads in less than 24 hours?" ]

it wouldnt really seem proportionate to me...

still, i could understand spam/shitposting being frustrating/exhausting to some :') i imagine some are more likely to value and rely on coherent discussions and resources for specific interests, or they have strained relationships/sentiments with someone they dislike seeing in a community they occupy, or they suspect these behaviors to be damaging for us in general even if expected from off-topic

...i likely wouldnt be interested in strict observation of threadlocking either (with some opportunity for exception and further definition depending on consensus of user opinions), but any issue (including spam/shitposting and exile/restriction) will affect more people than myself, so, my position is only a starting point from which i'd deliberate and negotiate with anyone actively concerned :0

[ question #4: "do you believe formal rules/guidelines should be put in place for, among other things: thread quality, respect between ot members, preventing bad influences on minors? why or why not?" ]

this is a case-by-case kind of question for me, so

for thread quality, absolutely not. independent of defining thread quality itself, different people enjoy different threads anyway and are catered to by threads that others may consider to be "low-quality" or are bored by ones other consider "high-quality". any effect i could imagine a government having is a sort of supplemental thread-support service that has no enforceable weight in compelling a user to do anything beyond what is agreed... for threads that seem questionable either by some morally/ethically objectionable basis or by sheer annoyance/frustration, i'm more likely to approach this with patatitta's framework-- lock when people appeal for it, or when the content is otherwise proving to be actively harming someone

for interpersonal respect, to a legislative extent, i'm open to some additional guidelines but currently am more inclined to let this remain informal. i don't disagree with the premise of wanting to encourage civility or peacemaking, it's actually my preference, but making it into a formal rule in some way is difficult to enforce and in many cases is needlessly restrictive. if i were to do anything, then it'd be more of an interpersonal and individual thing that isn't enforced so much as it is an offer. like stated by patatitta, you can report behavior upstream when it's serious, given that we have a very minimal influence beyond what is effectively social shunning

for preventing influence on minors, the more grave things are already addressed in the forum-wide rules but i imagine people could offer their thoughts if there was anything they believed should be legislated. i'm tentatively in limbo both for and against this, but i do feel a bit more likely to be personally-motivated to formalize something if it had popular appeal and was given adequate consideration

[ question #5: "why do you believe you should be the president over the other candidates?" ]

i don't quite believe that, no. this is more of an option if people think i would be in any way better suited in their own perspectives, rather than mine alone... but i do think there are things that can best be done when you're put in a credible position to practice what you preach directly with the responsibility of influence granted to you


[ question #7: "what do you plan for the denizen system? if keeping it, what would you do with it? so far, it has almost only ever been used for elections..." ]

i... don't have a strong answer here. i'm not very personally interested in any particular approach and would probably defer to others on this. i think i would keep it, and possibly offer to curate it-- an important distinction to make is also one of who has the responsibility/ownership of a thread and whether the government would/should have any power in compelling someone like patatitta with his own denizen-related or denizen-adjacent systems to change that model as a result of new administration. in fact, i'm curious whether there would be other possible approaches, where we create separate systems that can eventually be voted on

...but that's somewhere in the midground or background for me, unless some sort of popular appeal is made

[ question #8: "what normative ethical framework guides you, whether it be religiously ordained or otherwise?" ]

a normative ethical framework...? it's possible there's an informal code of ethics i follow, but most of this is an extension of a very vague interpretation of a do-no-harm principle according to my own biases, or something like that. it's not something i could really imagine listing explicitly, and anything i follow is also often-times something i apply to myself more than being anything i would apply for anyone else

i'm... not adherent to a religious code or spiritual faith at all, as far as i'm aware

[ question #0: "will you host events if you were to win? if the answer is yes, what events have you hosted without being president?" ]

most likely, yes!! i've mostly aimed for art-related events though, which i think i've done twice now. once maybe six-ish years ago (something like "ot amateur artwork avenue") and again somewhere within the past several months (something like "ms paint, and a survey of off-topic culture", but i forgot most of the titles throughout its lifetime)

i've likely done a couple other things, some threads related to presidency and one as an extension of a custom/tradition called "ot executions" which i barely remembered just now and am pretty sure i failed to maintain at the time;;

from here on, i... am probably going to be a bit more crazed with the events. again, arts and culture, including "whiteboard"-related events like possible aggie.io sessions (if applicable?) or art collaborations, possibly events retelling or revising old off-topic lore, or threads outlining intraforum subcultures of people and biographies, yearbooks and so on :D

...but that's not unique to something a president or government official would be capable of, really

[ question #10: "do we need an off-topic government nowadays? if yes, what powers should the president have?" ]

...my nitpick is with "need" and "should", but i can imagine there being a use for it, even if not very clear or immediate. whether that utility is wielded well within our lifespans of activity here, i'm not sure i could say. i could only hope we make it easier if we do deem a quasi-roleplay government to be our best way to achieve that ^^;; i'll likely start with appealing to what we already have, but leaving changes up to appeal or suggestions by other people
igorsprite
i voted
sametdze

Achromalia wrote:

splitting this into a couple parts...

oh... wait did daylight savings already happen?? i thought i had forty-five more minutes :sob: i didnt know the thread updated either but thats on me for tunnel-visioning

no, even daylight savings is a couple days later, i think i just misremembered what time the deadline was... :< that's really cringe

[ question #1: "why are you running for president?" ]

...admittedly, the primary case of my candidacy was my own boredom x')

but it also seemed to me like troubled institutions like denizenship have costed time and attention with ambiguous reward, and concerns about recent gmt behavior/activity had been floating at the forefront for a while with limited apparent benefit to user experience. it seemed to loom and linger rather than being a subject of interest (or rather, those who wrote passionate[?] objections would go on with underwhelming reception) and many more people expressed exhaustion with these issues (introducing absolutist solutions like "drop denizenship entirely", "dissolve government entirely", "drop presidency entirely"). most of anything this subforum's government has ever uniquely been capable of, beyond denizens themselves, appears to be minimal in scope

in essence, i'm another loosely-sentimental "give voting power to the people" candidate, somewhere between patatitta and corne, and flexible toward any of those political directions and perhaps beyond the platforms of either of them depending on contextually-informed communal consensus wherever/whenever it proves to concern us

for patatitta, i imagine the flexibility and lax platform makes it difficult to find what you're looking for from off-topic if i were too aimless or receptive to something diverging from your platform... but i imagine you yourself would continue to have a voice, and i think i'd be sympathetic to your thoughts/concerns from what you've been expressing throughout your time here

for corne, i imagine some cultural and interpersonal contexts make it a bit touchy to address where we stand on the gmt-and-user power-dynamic issue when this imbalance is concentrated in people uniquely capable of enforcing the nature of expression and culture. it's easy enough for me to imagine it being concerning regardless of precedent when you would be someone who has forum-wide discretion to exercise that power, regardless of stated intentions, especially because past behaviors and moderation choices have made it difficult to believe and trust in that promise you're making. but at the same time, i don't really believe that deeply or strongly in "legislating" against it, in a position where our "government" is barely in a position to regulate anything at all. we have limited power to affect moderators beyond report buttons for extreme offenses, of which we normally don't see from anyone in any way

[ question #2: "anything new you have in mind for ot?" ]

i'd characterize my response as mostly being something between wimpy and patatitta... specifically, i'm sympathetic to the belief that events should largely survive on community approval and utility and be freely created and hosted by any of y'all who want to see something and are willing to do something. if there was to be any institutional presence in hosting events, then i'm interested in supplementing community activity with an optional thread-drafting service for brainstorming and supplying aesthetic materials and editing/curating for an intended purpose, possibly also maintaining or refining a service in someone's stead in case they're inactive or busy so that they can catch up a little easier :>

but there's a touch of corne's administrative touch in my thoughts. i'd probably hover over the prospect of formalizing rules and rewriting a modernized constitution, prioritizing clarity with conciseness and ease of application in mind... defining denizenship is not exactly a personal plan but may be included as a result for the sake of consistency and efficiency

either way, i've been describing and expressing myself as "the arts-and-culture candidate", and that's generally something i do believe i could contrast the recent administrative/security focus with. demographics and history and biography, art and music and writing, i will likely be searching for a lot since i'm here a lot anyway and am interested in answering those questions for myself... furthermore, it's probably easier if that pursuit exists as an institution that is given credibility and that others can contribute to :>

i'm sure i would be open to a lot more, it's a bit disappointing that i'm not really listing quite as directly concise of an answer as this would merit in order to really demonstrate what i'd submit for introduction into off-topic daily life, but this is a timed assignment and i'm writing this in last-minute;;

[question #3: "will you exile users who keep making threads in less than 24 hours?" ]

it wouldnt really seem proportionate to me...

still, i could understand spam/shitposting being frustrating/exhausting to some :') i imagine some are more likely to value and rely on coherent discussions and resources for specific interests, or they have strained relationships/sentiments with someone they dislike seeing in a community they occupy, or they suspect these behaviors to be damaging for us in general even if expected from off-topic

...i likely wouldnt be interested in strict observation of threadlocking either (with some opportunity for exception and further definition depending on consensus of user opinions), but any issue (including spam/shitposting and exile/restriction) will affect more people than myself, so, my position is only a starting point from which i'd deliberate and negotiate with anyone actively concerned :0

[ question #4: "do you believe formal rules/guidelines should be put in place for, among other things: thread quality, respect between ot members, preventing bad influences on minors? why or why not?" ]

this is a case-by-case kind of question for me, so

for thread quality, absolutely not. independent of defining thread quality itself, different people enjoy different threads anyway and are catered to by threads that others may consider to be "low-quality" or are bored by ones other consider "high-quality". any effect i could imagine a government having is a sort of supplemental thread-support service that has no enforceable weight in compelling a user to do anything beyond what is agreed... for threads that seem questionable either by some morally/ethically objectionable basis or by sheer annoyance/frustration, i'm more likely to approach this with patatitta's framework-- lock when people appeal for it, or when the content is otherwise proving to be actively harming someone

for interpersonal respect, to a legislative extent, i'm open to some additional guidelines but currently am more inclined to let this remain informal. i don't disagree with the premise of wanting to encourage civility or peacemaking, it's actually my preference, but making it into a formal rule in some way is difficult to enforce and in many cases is needlessly restrictive. if i were to do anything, then it'd be more of an interpersonal and individual thing that isn't enforced so much as it is an offer. like stated by patatitta, you can report behavior upstream when it's serious, given that we have a very minimal influence beyond what is effectively social shunning

for preventing influence on minors, the more grave things are already addressed in the forum-wide rules but i imagine people could offer their thoughts if there was anything they believed should be legislated. i'm tentatively in limbo both for and against this, but i do feel a bit more likely to be personally-motivated to formalize something if it had popular appeal and was given adequate consideration

[ question #5: "why do you believe you should be the president over the other candidates?" ]

i don't quite believe that, no. this is more of an option if people think i would be in any way better suited in their own perspectives, rather than mine alone... but i do think there are things that can best be done when you're put in a credible position to practice what you preach directly with the responsibility of influence granted to you


[ question #7: "what do you plan for the denizen system? if keeping it, what would you do with it? so far, it has almost only ever been used for elections..." ]

i... don't have a strong answer here. i'm not very personally interested in any particular approach and would probably defer to others on this. i think i would keep it, and possibly offer to curate it-- an important distinction to make is also one of who has the responsibility/ownership of a thread and whether the government would/should have any power in compelling someone like patatitta with his own denizen-related or denizen-adjacent systems to change that model as a result of new administration. in fact, i'm curious whether there would be other possible approaches, where we create separate systems that can eventually be voted on

...but that's somewhere in the midground or background for me, unless some sort of popular appeal is made

[ question #8: "what normative ethical framework guides you, whether it be religiously ordained or otherwise?" ]

a normative ethical framework...? it's possible there's an informal code of ethics i follow, but most of this is an extension of a very vague interpretation of a do-no-harm principle according to my own biases, or something like that. it's not something i could really imagine listing explicitly, and anything i follow is also often-times something i apply to myself more than being anything i would apply for anyone else

i'm... not adherent to a religious code or spiritual faith at all, as far as i'm aware

[ question #0: "will you host events if you were to win? if the answer is yes, what events have you hosted without being president?" ]

most likely, yes!! i've mostly aimed for art-related events though, which i think i've done twice now. once maybe six-ish years ago (something like "ot amateur artwork avenue") and again somewhere within the past several months (something like "ms paint, and a survey of off-topic culture", but i forgot most of the titles throughout its lifetime)

i've likely done a couple other things, some threads related to presidency and one as an extension of a custom/tradition called "ot executions" which i barely remembered just now and am pretty sure i failed to maintain at the time;;

from here on, i... am probably going to be a bit more crazed with the events. again, arts and culture, including "whiteboard"-related events like possible aggie.io sessions (if applicable?) or art collaborations, possibly events retelling or revising old off-topic lore, or threads outlining intraforum subcultures of people and biographies, yearbooks and so on :D

...but that's not unique to something a president or government official would be capable of, really

[ question #10: "do we need an off-topic government nowadays? if yes, what powers should the president have?" ]

...my nitpick is with "need" and "should", but i can imagine there being a use for it, even if not very clear or immediate. whether that utility is wielded well within our lifespans of activity here, i'm not sure i could say. i could only hope we make it easier if we do deem a quasi-roleplay government to be our best way to achieve that ^^;; i'll likely start with appealing to what we already have, but leaving changes up to appeal or suggestions by other people
in another universe you just barely made it in the thread :(

i would've voted you
reffty_gag

sametdze wrote:

Achromalia wrote:

splitting this into a couple parts...

oh... wait did daylight savings already happen?? i thought i had forty-five more minutes :sob: i didnt know the thread updated either but thats on me for tunnel-visioning

no, even daylight savings is a couple days later, i think i just misremembered what time the deadline was... :< that's really cringe

[ question #1: "why are you running for president?" ]

...admittedly, the primary case of my candidacy was my own boredom x')

but it also seemed to me like troubled institutions like denizenship have costed time and attention with ambiguous reward, and concerns about recent gmt behavior/activity had been floating at the forefront for a while with limited apparent benefit to user experience. it seemed to loom and linger rather than being a subject of interest (or rather, those who wrote passionate[?] objections would go on with underwhelming reception) and many more people expressed exhaustion with these issues (introducing absolutist solutions like "drop denizenship entirely", "dissolve government entirely", "drop presidency entirely"). most of anything this subforum's government has ever uniquely been capable of, beyond denizens themselves, appears to be minimal in scope

in essence, i'm another loosely-sentimental "give voting power to the people" candidate, somewhere between patatitta and corne, and flexible toward any of those political directions and perhaps beyond the platforms of either of them depending on contextually-informed communal consensus wherever/whenever it proves to concern us

for patatitta, i imagine the flexibility and lax platform makes it difficult to find what you're looking for from off-topic if i were too aimless or receptive to something diverging from your platform... but i imagine you yourself would continue to have a voice, and i think i'd be sympathetic to your thoughts/concerns from what you've been expressing throughout your time here

for corne, i imagine some cultural and interpersonal contexts make it a bit touchy to address where we stand on the gmt-and-user power-dynamic issue when this imbalance is concentrated in people uniquely capable of enforcing the nature of expression and culture. it's easy enough for me to imagine it being concerning regardless of precedent when you would be someone who has forum-wide discretion to exercise that power, regardless of stated intentions, especially because past behaviors and moderation choices have made it difficult to believe and trust in that promise you're making. but at the same time, i don't really believe that deeply or strongly in "legislating" against it, in a position where our "government" is barely in a position to regulate anything at all. we have limited power to affect moderators beyond report buttons for extreme offenses, of which we normally don't see from anyone in any way

[ question #2: "anything new you have in mind for ot?" ]

i'd characterize my response as mostly being something between wimpy and patatitta... specifically, i'm sympathetic to the belief that events should largely survive on community approval and utility and be freely created and hosted by any of y'all who want to see something and are willing to do something. if there was to be any institutional presence in hosting events, then i'm interested in supplementing community activity with an optional thread-drafting service for brainstorming and supplying aesthetic materials and editing/curating for an intended purpose, possibly also maintaining or refining a service in someone's stead in case they're inactive or busy so that they can catch up a little easier :>

but there's a touch of corne's administrative touch in my thoughts. i'd probably hover over the prospect of formalizing rules and rewriting a modernized constitution, prioritizing clarity with conciseness and ease of application in mind... defining denizenship is not exactly a personal plan but may be included as a result for the sake of consistency and efficiency

either way, i've been describing and expressing myself as "the arts-and-culture candidate", and that's generally something i do believe i could contrast the recent administrative/security focus with. demographics and history and biography, art and music and writing, i will likely be searching for a lot since i'm here a lot anyway and am interested in answering those questions for myself... furthermore, it's probably easier if that pursuit exists as an institution that is given credibility and that others can contribute to :>

i'm sure i would be open to a lot more, it's a bit disappointing that i'm not really listing quite as directly concise of an answer as this would merit in order to really demonstrate what i'd submit for introduction into off-topic daily life, but this is a timed assignment and i'm writing this in last-minute;;

[question #3: "will you exile users who keep making threads in less than 24 hours?" ]

it wouldnt really seem proportionate to me...

still, i could understand spam/shitposting being frustrating/exhausting to some :') i imagine some are more likely to value and rely on coherent discussions and resources for specific interests, or they have strained relationships/sentiments with someone they dislike seeing in a community they occupy, or they suspect these behaviors to be damaging for us in general even if expected from off-topic

...i likely wouldnt be interested in strict observation of threadlocking either (with some opportunity for exception and further definition depending on consensus of user opinions), but any issue (including spam/shitposting and exile/restriction) will affect more people than myself, so, my position is only a starting point from which i'd deliberate and negotiate with anyone actively concerned :0

[ question #4: "do you believe formal rules/guidelines should be put in place for, among other things: thread quality, respect between ot members, preventing bad influences on minors? why or why not?" ]

this is a case-by-case kind of question for me, so

for thread quality, absolutely not. independent of defining thread quality itself, different people enjoy different threads anyway and are catered to by threads that others may consider to be "low-quality" or are bored by ones other consider "high-quality". any effect i could imagine a government having is a sort of supplemental thread-support service that has no enforceable weight in compelling a user to do anything beyond what is agreed... for threads that seem questionable either by some morally/ethically objectionable basis or by sheer annoyance/frustration, i'm more likely to approach this with patatitta's framework-- lock when people appeal for it, or when the content is otherwise proving to be actively harming someone

for interpersonal respect, to a legislative extent, i'm open to some additional guidelines but currently am more inclined to let this remain informal. i don't disagree with the premise of wanting to encourage civility or peacemaking, it's actually my preference, but making it into a formal rule in some way is difficult to enforce and in many cases is needlessly restrictive. if i were to do anything, then it'd be more of an interpersonal and individual thing that isn't enforced so much as it is an offer. like stated by patatitta, you can report behavior upstream when it's serious, given that we have a very minimal influence beyond what is effectively social shunning

for preventing influence on minors, the more grave things are already addressed in the forum-wide rules but i imagine people could offer their thoughts if there was anything they believed should be legislated. i'm tentatively in limbo both for and against this, but i do feel a bit more likely to be personally-motivated to formalize something if it had popular appeal and was given adequate consideration

[ question #5: "why do you believe you should be the president over the other candidates?" ]

i don't quite believe that, no. this is more of an option if people think i would be in any way better suited in their own perspectives, rather than mine alone... but i do think there are things that can best be done when you're put in a credible position to practice what you preach directly with the responsibility of influence granted to you


[ question #7: "what do you plan for the denizen system? if keeping it, what would you do with it? so far, it has almost only ever been used for elections..." ]

i... don't have a strong answer here. i'm not very personally interested in any particular approach and would probably defer to others on this. i think i would keep it, and possibly offer to curate it-- an important distinction to make is also one of who has the responsibility/ownership of a thread and whether the government would/should have any power in compelling someone like patatitta with his own denizen-related or denizen-adjacent systems to change that model as a result of new administration. in fact, i'm curious whether there would be other possible approaches, where we create separate systems that can eventually be voted on

...but that's somewhere in the midground or background for me, unless some sort of popular appeal is made

[ question #8: "what normative ethical framework guides you, whether it be religiously ordained or otherwise?" ]

a normative ethical framework...? it's possible there's an informal code of ethics i follow, but most of this is an extension of a very vague interpretation of a do-no-harm principle according to my own biases, or something like that. it's not something i could really imagine listing explicitly, and anything i follow is also often-times something i apply to myself more than being anything i would apply for anyone else

i'm... not adherent to a religious code or spiritual faith at all, as far as i'm aware

[ question #0: "will you host events if you were to win? if the answer is yes, what events have you hosted without being president?" ]

most likely, yes!! i've mostly aimed for art-related events though, which i think i've done twice now. once maybe six-ish years ago (something like "ot amateur artwork avenue") and again somewhere within the past several months (something like "ms paint, and a survey of off-topic culture", but i forgot most of the titles throughout its lifetime)

i've likely done a couple other things, some threads related to presidency and one as an extension of a custom/tradition called "ot executions" which i barely remembered just now and am pretty sure i failed to maintain at the time;;

from here on, i... am probably going to be a bit more crazed with the events. again, arts and culture, including "whiteboard"-related events like possible aggie.io sessions (if applicable?) or art collaborations, possibly events retelling or revising old off-topic lore, or threads outlining intraforum subcultures of people and biographies, yearbooks and so on :D

...but that's not unique to something a president or government official would be capable of, really

[ question #10: "do we need an off-topic government nowadays? if yes, what powers should the president have?" ]

...my nitpick is with "need" and "should", but i can imagine there being a use for it, even if not very clear or immediate. whether that utility is wielded well within our lifespans of activity here, i'm not sure i could say. i could only hope we make it easier if we do deem a quasi-roleplay government to be our best way to achieve that ^^;; i'll likely start with appealing to what we already have, but leaving changes up to appeal or suggestions by other people
in another universe you just barely made it in the thread :(

i would've voted you
real bro :(
Achromalia
at this point im kind of just relieved x') disappointed but mostly just at myself

i was writing all this for about three hours straight, with screenshots and questions laid out so i could draft effectively when i could get myself to really start

but um, again, that doesnt really matter now;;

well, for posterity im going to just post the rest of what i had!! you may now cry in agony as you plead for an alternate universe that doesn't exist </3 im not sure it was really the best platform in my opinion lol

...

[center][ question #11: do you think gmts should be able to be president? why or why not? ][/center]

again, "should" is probably not how i would address this, but i'm pretty split between my sympathies. disallowing gmt participation is understandable from a self-governance and regulation-against-detached-aristocratic-interference position, but i would also imagine the ability to enforce that self-governance and self-defense/self-preservation is not very realistic beyond appealing to gmts and hoping they relent. i could be open to corne's position on this, not really from the same sentimentality beyond understang that it's possible for a moderator to not be entirely tyrannical in practice, but open nonetheless :>

i'm vaguely curious if any of this happens to be a more personal thing, and i'm curious what would have happened if i were a moderator appealing to become the president of off-topic, with the responses people have made in my favor

...i don't know, i would defer to democracy and deliberation for this, i don't currently have any strong principles on hand regarding this

[center][ question #12: what is your opinion on patatitta's presidency, from their behavior to their administrative decisions? ][/center]

"presidency" could encompass a few things here...

personality-wise, temperamentally, patatitta was adequate ^^ not necessarily the friendliest in subjective appearance, with priorities that make it a bit difficult to view this presidential administration as much of anything more than an internalized legislative one while being something of a coarse but reasonable/respectable figure in the community

i haven't paid attention to all of the policies he applied or institutions he maintained but am generally complacent with them, nothing more and nothing less. i'm not sure i'm content, because something here feels empty... and identifying that was difficult until i landed on "art/culture", which seemed to be something that was left to the community to supply for itself, which, with no organization or encouragement, was mostly unproductive in my loose opinion

that's probably part of why i was bored, and why i intended to run for presidency x')

[center][ question #13: what are your goals for roleplay in off-topic? ][/center]

not compulsory goals, exactly, but i would like to encourage it from a point of personal interest outside government. i would likely try to record what exists and attempt to add something of my own if i find the time :>

[center][ question #15: do you think the government's group chat should be public? would it be motivated by political transparency? ][/center]

copypasting from another drafted message...

"we could also, for transparency, indicate whether a given moderator was receptive to having their thoughts publicized or represented for public opinion, or whether they believe it is within users' best interests to keep it private, among other things", except we may apply this to the government

...except again, i'm not sure i would describe it as a should so much as it would be an offer

[center][ question #16: should we have more gmts dedicated to off-topic? should corne2plum3 quit? ][/center]

i think it'd be useful if we had gmts who are familiar with off-topic users and internal cultures. but should we have more of them as they are? i lean toward a no on that

for corne, i'm... not really very opinionated on that. your choices and presence can be controversial, but i'm not sure i would ask you to quit. if anything, that should be up to you, and although i worry more for your own mental wellbeing, i trust you to know when you've reached your limits. i can only hope you can grow along with us and have a moment to understand people a little better :>

...

and that was all i have as of the time of writing

no idea whats going wrong w the bbcode :'( im tired i need to sleep and pack and urghhhhhh let me disappear forever
Polyspora
let achro in!!!!
Achromalia
also wouldnt it be funny if we had a function of popular-vote override

...no at this point im grasping for straws i dont even completely want x'p

Achromalia wrote:

hi so instead of me answering questions how about i give you art to buy your vote and to stall until any questions are answered :)

(/joking, im acknowledging the rules go unchanged!! but i am lazy so the stalling part is true lol)

quirky off-topic subforum gijinka/mascot draft v1
w/ indecisively mediocre(?) design except that humanoid thing is a thinly veiled [recycled character]

im actually more saddened that this got nothing other than abraker's attention.....

note to self, make the art i care about After the questions i dont care as much about
igorsprite

Achromalia wrote:

also wouldnt it be funny if we had a function of popular-vote override

...no at this point im grasping for straws i dont even completely want x'p

Achromalia wrote:

hi so instead of me answering questions how about i give you art to buy your vote and to stall until any questions are answered :)

(/joking, im acknowledging the rules go unchanged!! but i am lazy so the stalling part is true lol)

quirky off-topic subforum gijinka/mascot draft v1
w/ indecisively mediocre(?) design except that humanoid thing is a thinly veiled [recycled character]

im actually more saddened that this got nothing other than abraker's attention.....

note to self, make the art i care about After the questions i dont care as much about
this flag looks like an LGBT thing
Corne2Plum3
I voted
sametdze
anyways tldr patatitta won the election again
burgernfat
I voted
Topic Starter
Patatitta

burgernfat wrote:

I voted
I have not recieved any dm
Ymir
This is a terrible list but I'll just vote for the 'best' one I guess.
Ymir
Voted
Kobold84
I voted.
Achromalia
im not sure if this is the funniest ending or the most disappointing one

or is this just supremely "mid"???? anyway i voted
Karmine
Voted. :)
Karmine

Achromalia wrote:

im not sure if this is the funniest ending or the most disappointing one

or is this just supremely "mid"???? anyway i voted
You can be in parliament instead.
Ymir
I think it's a mid ending in terms of the fact that we had so much drama and happenings only for nothing to change. :P
z0z
voted
Achromalia
status is so quo right now
Isshiki Kaname
Well. Voted, somehow.
Ashton
Voted
Ymir
themoreyouknow.gif
abraker
I voted
Kobold84
3 more days.
- Marco -
Voted (i hope i'm still in time)
Ashton
So we receive the results tomorrow? Or Saturday?
Topic Starter
Patatitta

Ashton wrote:

So we receive the results tomorrow? Or Saturday?
tomorrow yes, exactly in 28 hours
Wimpy Cursed
voted
Topic Starter
Patatitta
Results out!!!!
burgernfat
wow who couldve guessed
Karmine
GG
sametdze
gg wp
sametdze
just by all of the exclaimation marks i can just tell patatitta is the happiest man on earth rn
Topic Starter
Patatitta

sametdze wrote:

just by all of the exclaimation marks i can just tell patatitta is the happiest man on earth rn
feels good to win after all the drama and this comment

sametdze
you deserve it; prove the haters wrong as they say
Karmine
Ymir

Patatitta wrote:

sametdze wrote:

just by all of the exclaimation marks i can just tell patatitta is the happiest man on earth rn
feels good to win after all the drama and this comment

He would have been right if Achro didn't go out the way she did.
Corne2Plum3


Well I think from now I'm going to take some distance with political RP on this forum, make me feels more bad than good... Not taking this too seriously...

Also Patatitta don't forget you can't be president a 3rd time in a row ;) community/forums/topics/1021462?n=1 Rule II
Topic Starter
Patatitta

Ymir wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

sametdze wrote:

just by all of the exclaimation marks i can just tell patatitta is the happiest man on earth rn
feels good to win after all the drama and this comment

He would have been right if Achro didn't go out the way she did.
I think by that point achromalia had not yet entered
Ymir
It's okay OT will be completely dead by the third election Pata please do it just kill OT this time kill it all do it I speak for all of us when I say that OT SUCKS aaa and we aaaa and we aaa and we aaa and we aaa and we aaa all and we aaa all agree and we aaaa all the agreerers aaa and all we aa
igorsprite
Good ending
Kobold84
Congratulations Mr Potato.
Polyspora

Ymir wrote:

It's okay OT will be completely dead by the third election Pata please do it just kill OT this time kill it all do it I speak for all of us when I say that OT SUCKS aaa and we aaaa and we aaa and we aaa and we aaa and we aaa all and we aaa all agree and we aaaa all the agreerers aaa and all we aa
ShinRun
I’m surprised Ymir never ran for presidency
Polyspora

ShinRun wrote:

I’m surprised Ymir never ran for presidency
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA
Karmine

ShinRun wrote:

I’m surprised Ymir never ran for presidency
He would have got less votes than igor.
Ymir

ShinRun wrote:

I’m surprised Ymir never ran for presidency
Poly is me.
- Marco -

Ymir wrote:

ShinRun wrote:

I’m surprised Ymir never ran for presidency
Poly is me.
MULTIACCOUNT???????? MOOODS
f4ll
I don't get the lore but it seems sick so congratulations. 🎉🎉🎉
Karmine

f4ll wrote:

I don't get the lore but it seems sick so congratulations. 🎉🎉🎉
There is no lore, only shitpost.
B0ii
man fuck this shit
ShinRun

Karmine wrote:

ShinRun wrote:

I’m surprised Ymir never ran for presidency
He would have got less votes than igor.
I would have voted for a 4’9 borderline femboy if he wore a maid costume for president
Ymir

ShinRun wrote:

Karmine wrote:

ShinRun wrote:

I’m surprised Ymir never ran for presidency
He would have got less votes than igor.
I would have voted for a 4’9 borderline femboy if he wore a maid costume for president
Why does the height keep going lower...
Ashton

ShinRun wrote:

Karmine wrote:

ShinRun wrote:

I’m surprised Ymir never ran for presidency
He would have got less votes than igor.
I would have voted for a 4’9 borderline femboy if he wore a maid costume for president
Serraionga
Ashton
Would have preferred Achro or Samet, but at least it wasn't Corne3
Achromalia
congrats patatitta <3 wishing you all the luck with your new career in the waste management facility :p

may your roots be hardy and the labor of your vegetables be light work...

also yea ignore the mad codger... x') you are Adequate, perfectly Adequate

celebrate!! you have another chance to defend ur honor and pride!! do what you must and we will do what we will-- being wonderful little nuisances~

now suffer :)
Ephemeral
is a president truly legitimate until they've exiled scylla?
Scyla

Ephemeral wrote:

is a president truly legitimate until they've exiled scylla?
No

They love me, they wont exile me
reffty_gag



OMEDETOU PATA-SAN!!!!!!!!

now, go back to work
abraker

Patatitta wrote:

sametdze wrote:

just by all of the exclaimation marks i can just tell patatitta is the happiest man on earth rn
feels good to win after all the drama and this comment




Karmine wrote:

Truly a sign I'm outliving my time here
Karmine

Ephemeral wrote:

is a president truly legitimate until they've exiled scylla?
- Marco -

Ephemeral wrote:

is a president truly legitimate until they've exiled scylla?
keremaru
gz pata, L predict abraker
ghoulybits

IAMACROBA wrote:

the ot!government fell apart when ghoulybits left
THIS POST HAS BEEN FACT CHECKED BY TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOTS
ShinRun

ghoulybits wrote:

IAMACROBA wrote:

the ot!government fell apart when ghoulybits left
THIS POST HAS BEEN FACT CHECKED BY TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOTS
Please sign in to reply.

New reply