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Kurai
osu! Alumni
7,734 posts
Joined March 2009
Kurai
If you have concerns about me being able to judge this map properly, I invite you to file a complaint to the QAT. This thread is not the place where you should be doing that as it is going to bring unwanted negativity to the debate once again.

Being able to play the map in its entirety is, I believe, not a factor to judge a map properly; it is obviously an asset but in no case a requirement. As long as I understand the logic behind the patterns, I believe I am more than qualified to nominate this beatmap. This is also why the modal "may" has been used in the BNG rule you keep telling everyone I broke. The use of this modal clearly means that being a skilled player is not only what it takes to be able to judge a map.

I don't understand you at all. I am trying to push this map forward, doing what no one else really wants to do because no one likes doing the dirty job, yet you still find something to complain about? You are slowing down the qualifying process of this map by doing that. If any action has to be taken for my doings, a QAT will contact me and I will be glad to explain to them why I deemed myself qualified to bubble this map (don't worry, the QAT are well aware that I bubbled it).

In conclusion: if you have any concern about this map being bubbled, I invite you to point out the issues proving it unworthy of receiving a bubble. Anything else is irrelevent to the topic.
Natsu
8,088 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu
almost there 8-)

Edit: This map has been tested and modded a lot, so I don't think kurai's icon here is wrong, even if he can't judge the map properly, there are 67 pages of feedback...
Last edited by Natsu , edited 1 time in total.
Mir
osu! Alumni
2,152 posts
Joined July 2016
Mir

Natsu wrote:

almost there 8-)
nat-su fast
Yuutai
18 posts
Joined February 2011
Yuutai

Kurai wrote:

As long as I understand the logic behind the patterns, I believe I am more than qualified to nominate this beatmap. This is also why the modal "may" has been used in the BNG rule you keep telling everyone I broke.
Actually, as you can see in the screenshot above, the modal is must not/are not allowed. It's not a guideline apparently.
Kurai
osu! Alumni
7,734 posts
Joined March 2009
Kurai

Yuutai wrote:

Kurai wrote:

As long as I understand the logic behind the patterns, I believe I am more than qualified to nominate this beatmap. This is also why the modal "may" has been used in the BNG rule you keep telling everyone I broke.
Actually, as you can see in the screenshot above, the modal is must not/are not allowed. It's not a guideline apparently.


I have no idea where you got your screenshot from.
Yuutai
18 posts
Joined February 2011
Yuutai

Kurai wrote:

I have no idea where you got your screenshot from.

My screenshot comes from here. t/470459/start=345

And even if we use yours - the defining modal here is "Do not", not "may". By that logic as long as nobody complained we wouldn't have had any problems ranking Bloodthirsty Nightmare/The Empress in the first place.
Kurai
osu! Alumni
7,734 posts
Joined March 2009
Kurai

Yuutai wrote:

Kurai wrote:

I have no idea where you got your screenshot from.

My screenshot comes from here. t/470459/start=345

And even if we use yours - the defining modal here is "Do not", not "may". By that logic as long as nobody complained we wouldn't have had any problems ranking Bloodthirsty Nightmare/The Empress in the first place.
"Do not" refers to nominating a map when you are unable to judge it.
"May" refers to the idea of considering a nominator unable to judge a 8* map when they are 60k.
Which means that I am not necessarily deemed unable to judge a 8* map if I am 60k.

Anyway this conversation is irrelevent and is not contributing in any way in getting this ranked.
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding
How many BNs have veto'd this map so far? Just an innocent question
Hobbes2
osu! Alumni
2,251 posts
Joined March 2016
Hobbes2

Kisses wrote:

How many BNs have veto'd this map so far? Just an innocent question
After loved -->

Nao bubbles map
Monstrata self pops for updates
I bubble map (I could have qualified but i figured rebubbling was the safer option given the maps controversy)
Kagetsu vetos my bubble
After discussion with Monstrata, Kagetsu rescinds his veto.
I rebubble map
Sonnyc vetos my bubble
Kurai bubbles map
body
body
And now 🅱op the 🅱ubble. Or else.

EDIT: holy shit 1008 posts. This is one GODLY thread.
SnowNiNo_
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
2,108 posts
Joined April 2013
SnowNiNo_
y is a single map triggering so many ppl
its just a circle clicking game lmao
Last edited by Kurai , edited 1 time in total.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
Please do not DQ this, let this map be ranked already so it will force some ways to let other creative maps get ranked.

Like really, for all god and evil souls - just get some common sense and stop being drama queens (and kings).

For next DQ, If someone point out "I don't like this object, please elaborate", I shall find explanation in this topic and link it to prove how artificial and hostile this DQ are now. Mark my words!

Good luck Monstrata!

/me going back to lurk around
Underforest
5,895 posts
Joined July 2015
Underforest

SnowNiNo_ wrote:

y is a single map triggering so many ppl
its just a circle clicking game lmao
agree
QTS
25 posts
Joined September 2013
QTS
Tbh I respect the fact that Monstrata has taken a different approach to getting this map ranked. Back in the days, it seemed like you were just kind of the dick you wanted to be, which goes something along the lines of "Since I am Monstrata I can rank whatever I want" kind of mentality. The reason why I really got irritated by your behaviour in the past was due to the fact that you wanted to rank something for the point of "showing how much potential power you could have" and also the fact that you wanted to make the highest * map this specific map. I guess I didn't have too great of an issue with the fact that it would've been the highest * rank but your approach to it was just garbage.

Personally, I still don't think it should be ranked, but yeah. I don't know what it is that makes me feel so against the map, maybe the "ugliness" in itself or just the fact that it has a bunch of RNG jumps that no one besides AUTO will hit. Just rambling.
Kynan
497 posts
Joined September 2011
Kynan

filsdelmao wrote:

Personally, I still don't think it should be ranked, but yeah. I don't know what it is that makes me feel so against the map, maybe the "ugliness" in itself or just the fact that it has a bunch of RNG jumps that no one besides AUTO will hit. Just rambling.
The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week, they're just wider. If anything they flow even better than those "perfectly fine" maps.
QTS
25 posts
Joined September 2013
QTS

Kynan wrote:

filsdelmao wrote:

Personally, I still don't think it should be ranked, but yeah. I don't know what it is that makes me feel so against the map, maybe the "ugliness" in itself or just the fact that it has a bunch of RNG jumps that no one besides AUTO will hit. Just rambling.
The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week, they're just wider. If anything they flow even better than those "perfectly fine" maps.
Maybe the flow is "fine" if that is what you truly consider to be fine. I'd love to see you attempt to hit those, and if you do, kudos to you.
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding

Kynan wrote:

The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week
If the patterns are similar to trash maps then does that make this a trash map? :thinking:
QTS
25 posts
Joined September 2013
QTS

Kisses wrote:

Kynan wrote:

The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week
If the patterns are similar to trash maps then does that make this a trash map? :thinking:
You're right. That is indeed contradictory.
body
body

[Taiga] wrote:

creative
Huh, that word is not what I would describe this map as at all. If this is creative then I'm actually the coolest person on Earth 8-) 8-)
fieryrage
Former osu! Champion: 2023
1,458 posts
Joined November 2013
fieryrage

body wrote:

[Taiga] wrote:

creative
Huh, that word is not what I would describe this map as at all. If this is creative then I'm actually the coolest person on Earth 8-) 8-)
bro ur like 100k and ur judging a map that's 8.5 stars with no mapping experience l oool
Illyasviel
218 posts
Joined July 2013
Illyasviel
How about we stop talking about if someone capable of judging a map or not and instead focus on doing constructive criticism? I'd recommend Monstrata to ask for a cleaning session on this thread because a lot of the stuff being said here is really useless and only brings up drama and flame.
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,077 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
hey guys remember when xexxar tried to get me striked 3 different times for after rain
who thinks he'll do it again here raise your hand!!!
Kynan
497 posts
Joined September 2011
Kynan

filsdelmao wrote:

Kisses wrote:

If the patterns are similar to trash maps then does that make this a trash map? :thinking:
You're right. That is indeed contradictory.
How did I expect someone with a nickname like that to get my point, I wonder...
mindmaster107
735 posts
Joined August 2016
mindmaster107
This map was created to reflect the music. Whether it does that or not, I can't say since i'm not a very good mapper.

What I can add to this conversation is that rankable, doesn't mean playable. If the map reflects the song well, in a way which doesn't break the ranking criteria, it technically deserves to be ranked.
I personally don't want this ranked, since to the player majority, this is the flagship for allowing a "messy" style of mapping to take over. This is probably scare mongering, since all of monstrata's old controversial mapsets have not inspired a wash of quality drop in ranked.
However it's the message which matters here. Objectively it should be ok to rank with no repercussions, but it sends the message to potential mappers "this is ok", even if this map used it's ugliness effectively.

This is my opinion to this whole thing.


I do enjoy eating popcorn on my ledge here.
QTS
25 posts
Joined September 2013
QTS
Edit: Writing on mobile is hard lmao.
Last edited by QTS , edited 3 times in total.
body
body

fieryrage wrote:

bro ur like 100k and ur judging a map that's 8.5 stars with no mapping experience l oool
whoa duder that is rude. you okay there buddy?
QTS
25 posts
Joined September 2013
QTS

Kynan wrote:

filsdelmao wrote:

You're right. That is indeed contradictory.
How did I expect someone with a nickname like that to get my point, I wonder...
You were contradicting yourself in the statement of yours and instead of clearing it up you decide to insult me and my name. Tough guy. But since you seem so concerned about your so called "point", go ahead and explain it in further context as to why this song has a better flow than any of those "PP farm maps" that you... didn't refer to?

Thanks in advance Kynan.
mindmaster107
735 posts
Joined August 2016
mindmaster107
A mapping conversation with players doesn't work out, since they value different things.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,947 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
Last warning. If you have nothing constructive or relevant to contribute to this discussion, post nothing, or risk a very hefty silence and possible restriction.

We've removed well over fifty posts from this thread at this point.
Kynan
497 posts
Joined September 2011
Kynan

filsdelmao wrote:

You were contradicting yourself in the statement of yours and instead of clearing it up you decide to insult me and my name. Tough guy. But since you seem so concerned about your so called "point", go ahead and explain it in further context as to why this song has a better flow than any of those "PP farm maps" that you... didn't refer to?

Thanks in advance Kynan.
My point is extremely simple to get though : the jumps aren't any more complicated than the ones you see getting ranked every fucking day. They are just harder to hit because they are wider. End of my point. Got it now ?
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,077 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori

it doesnt apply for quali right
Linada
995 posts
Joined November 2014
Linada
It HaPpEnEd oo
Mint
1,611 posts
Joined February 2013
Mint
finally
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,536 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly
OH BOY
Realazy
Elite Mapper
1,004 posts
Joined June 2011
Realazy
white discord RRREEEEEEEEEEE
Akitoshi
2,687 posts
Joined August 2014
Akitoshi
winny upload stoppddddddddddddddd
Ancelysia
490 posts
Joined September 2015
Ancelysia
WAIT WHAT
Logic Agent
483 posts
Joined April 2015
Logic Agent
lets do this thingy
Depths
681 posts
Joined January 2014
Depths
oh boy /popcorn
Ideal
Nomination Assessment Team
634 posts
Joined January 2014
Ideal
gather around for this hell of a trip to dramaland
Side
1,127 posts
Joined October 2013
Side
winny status: stopped
squirrelpascals
984 posts
Joined March 2015
squirrelpascals
The person who qualified uses light-themed discord, i demand an immediate dq

/s
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,077 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
that was actually hobbes screenshot not me, i'm respectable...
Linada
995 posts
Joined November 2014
Linada

squirrelpascals wrote:

The person who qualified uses light-themed discord, i demand an immediate dq

/s
schoolboy
571 posts
Joined July 2016
schoolboy
best of 20167
kbd
53 posts
Joined May 2014
kbd
holy, we did it boiz?
Ideal
Nomination Assessment Team
634 posts
Joined January 2014
Ideal
light theme discord should be punishable by death
Kalibe
2,068 posts
Joined October 2013
Kalibe
here we go
fieryrage
Former osu! Champion: 2023
1,458 posts
Joined November 2013
fieryrage
this is actually fun now good job monstrata proud of u
Shunao
1,953 posts
Joined February 2016
Shunao
GOOO
jeanbernard8865
600 posts
Joined December 2014
jeanbernard8865
O BOI HERE COMES THE DRAMA

defiance
503 posts
Joined July 2015
defiance
congratz monstrata!!
Yohanes
1,285 posts
Joined February 2014
Yohanes
:)
jeanbernard8865
600 posts
Joined December 2014
jeanbernard8865
wait a sec isn't 01:31:862 (3) offscreen since that square is supposedly 4:3 play area
Tanomoshii Nekojou
503 posts
Joined November 2010
Tanomoshii Nekojou

Naotoshi wrote:


it doesnt apply for quali right
FINALLY!!! thank you Naotoshi !!! :D :D :D :D
Nowaie
1,021 posts
Joined December 2014
Nowaie

AyanokoRin wrote:

wait a sec isn't 01:31:862 (3) offscreen since that square is supposedly 4:3 play area


Not offscreen ^^, the square is supposed to resemble that and anything inside it is definitely inside the play area on 4:3 but the actual play area is bit bigger
Last edited by Nowaie , edited 1 time in total.
sdafsf
309 posts
Joined October 2013
sdafsf
lol
jeanbernard8865
600 posts
Joined December 2014
jeanbernard8865
oh alright my bad then, I had always assumed that it was strictly the same
MaridiuS
879 posts
Joined June 2014
MaridiuS
let's go monstrota, I was with the map on some parts of its existence, then against it, and now i'm supporting it again, gl.
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding
wait, did the rating reset because it was previously loved?
riktoi
711 posts
Joined September 2014
riktoi
grats
diponski
596 posts
Joined April 2013
diponski
gz lol
Linada
995 posts
Joined November 2014
Linada

Kisses wrote:

wait, did the rating reset because it was previously loved?
yeah lol it works like a qualified map, if it get DQ/unloved, it reset when requalified
Kurai
osu! Alumni
7,734 posts
Joined March 2009
Kurai
modded on irc btw
ZekeyHache
3,316 posts
Joined October 2009
ZekeyHache
Finally yay!
_DT3
1,403 posts
Joined October 2015
_DT3
Tbh, so many people say drama incoming
looks at the last few pages full of gratz

Gratz btw
Icekalt
558 posts
Joined December 2014
Icekalt
71 pages holy

(Predict one dq but then again qualify after that ranked)

Gratz btw
Yuii-
2,501 posts
Joined July 2013
Yuii-
This video describes the whole thread btw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJX4ytfqw6k
Pachiru
osu! Alumni
2,956 posts
Joined June 2013
Pachiru
The thing that bother me the most in this thread is

THAT WHITE DISCORD NAOTOSHI HOW YOU DARE?
squirrelpascals
984 posts
Joined March 2015
squirrelpascals

Yuii- wrote:

This video describes the whole thread btw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJX4ytfqw6k
There is an accurate prozd video for everything, this is the one for alien
jeanbernard8865
600 posts
Joined December 2014
jeanbernard8865

_DT3 wrote:

Tbh, so many people say drama incoming
looks at the last few pages full of gratz

Gratz btw
drama gets insta-deleted FeelsBadMan
Lacrima
377 posts
Joined September 2014
Lacrima
I am simply amazed with Monstrata's determination. I don't know how standard ranking criteria works, but just seeing Monstrata's replies on everyone's suggestions, problems etc...
This just deserves to be ranked.
Caput Mortuum
1,854 posts
Joined March 2016
Caput Mortuum
holy fuck congrats!!
Enon
Beatmap Nominator
2,705 posts
Joined November 2012
Enon
finally it happens
Hobbes2
osu! Alumni
2,251 posts
Joined March 2016
Hobbes2
Guys, please do not blame Naotoshi for the white discord. That was my screenshot of Naotoshi's text. Please redirect all of your hatred to me.

p.s. white discord for life LUL

grats monstrata!
Linada
995 posts
Joined November 2014
Linada

Hobbes2 wrote:

Guys, please do not blame Naotoshi for the white discord. That was my screenshot of Naotoshi's text. Please redirect all of your hatred to me.

p.s. white discord for life LUL

grats monstrata!
BURN
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata

mindmaster107 wrote:

This map was created to reflect the music. Whether it does that or not, I can't say since i'm not a very good mapper.

What I can add to this conversation is that rankable, doesn't mean playable. If the map reflects the song well, in a way which doesn't break the ranking criteria, it technically deserves to be ranked.
I personally don't want this ranked, since to the player majority, this is the flagship for allowing a "messy" style of mapping to take over. This is probably scare mongering, since all of monstrata's old controversial mapsets have not inspired a wash of quality drop in ranked.
However it's the message which matters here. Objectively it should be ok to rank with no repercussions, but it sends the message to potential mappers "this is ok", even if this map used it's ugliness effectively.

This is my opinion to this whole thing.


I do enjoy eating popcorn on my ledge here.
Do you think any mapper will try the techniques and ideas I've used on this map if they know it'll 1. receive multiple bubble pops and outrage from the community, and 2. result in hundreds of pages of discussion and mapping analysis? If anything, this shows how much trouble mappers need to go through to get anything non-standard and creative ranked.
Shinsekai-
1,315 posts
Joined November 2012
Shinsekai-
gratz m8
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,317 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible
posting so i also posted in that thread once

i mean gz ;D
Last edited by WalterToro , edited 1 time in total.
squirrelpascals
984 posts
Joined March 2015
squirrelpascals

Hobbes2 wrote:

Guys, please do not blame Naotoshi for the white discord. That was my screenshot of Naotoshi's text. Please redirect all of your hatred to me.

p.s. white discord for life LUL

grats monstrata!
Do you people not even read the BNG rules when you get added? Did you just assume you can make discord any color you want? You're 15k dude and a brand new BN, why do you think you can do this?

I think you should be kicked from the BNG for your actions here.
xxdeathx
2,661 posts
Joined July 2013
xxdeathx
no i find it strange that dark theme users look down on people that use the default white theme
it's default for a reason
most things have a white background by default
it's you that went out of your way to change the setting
jeanbernard8865
600 posts
Joined December 2014
jeanbernard8865
Finally, a discussion that matters
pw384
Beatmap Nominator
2,298 posts
Joined January 2012
pw384
pR3TtY uG1Y
piklopedia
268 posts
Joined February 2016
piklopedia
Nice one momstrata
AncuL
1,114 posts
Joined March 2013
AncuL
in all seriousness, this map will make more harder maps with weird aesthetics rankable once it's ranked

congrats!!!!!!
Neto
Beatmap Nominator
1,294 posts
Joined October 2014
Neto

AncuL wrote:

in all seriousness, this map will make more harder maps with weird aesthetics rankable once it's ranked

congrats!!!!!!
Thanks Mr. Monstrata for that :>
Lhahein
22 posts
Joined April 2017
Lhahein
how did this reach 73 pages..
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,077 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
defaults for a lot of things suck, for example, nobody uses default hitsounding, or the default osu skin. similarly, using the default white discord is similarly heretical and deserves the utmost punishment. i suggest a strike for hobbes2; maybe irre can oblige.
Mismagius
Beatmap Nominator
9,335 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius
you take that back, default osu! hitsounds are pretty good (except normal soundset)
Aeril
Elite Nominator
715 posts
Joined May 2014
Aeril
HEY, I love the normal whistle ;c
DeletedUser_4329079
DeletedUser_4329079
Default is best.
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,282 posts
Joined January 2015
Shmiklak
Grats
ZekeyHache
3,316 posts
Joined October 2009
ZekeyHache

Naotoshi wrote:

nobody uses default hitsounding, or the default osu skin..
I do 99% of the time, both default hitsounds and skin 👀 I just use custom hitsounds when they're map specific 👀
Delis
1,442 posts
Joined May 2012
Delis
hi
Kyouren
5,690 posts
Joined October 2012
Kyouren
Congrulations!
Xinnoh
Elite Mapper
1,964 posts
Joined April 2014
Xinnoh
Hi, there are some serious issues that need to be addressed before this moves on to rank

alien
  1. 04:37:763 (1) - This is clearly a U and not an O. I'm pretty sure you spell stop with an O so please change that to an O shape regardless of being able to tell between slider head and tail. Representing the song is more important than being able to read it.
  2. 04:28:662 (6) - I fear this stream might be too hard for people to play, please nerf by using sliders.
  3. 03:53:600 (1) - this section needs to use more drum kicks. You only use a kick when guitar changes chord, but a drum never changes pitch! please rectify this by adding more kicks.
[Nemesis]
[Nemesis]
02:21:427 (4,5,1) - timing is off in this section, I suggest you recheck that.
Ideal
Nomination Assessment Team
634 posts
Joined January 2014
Ideal
congratulations on getting #1 in your country ohori :^)
Kilabarus
999 posts
Joined May 2015
Kilabarus
Finally, Monstrata, you did it! Gratz for ranking this awesome map!
Exote
416 posts
Joined April 2013
Exote
wo0ow holy sh gratz
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