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Sonnyc
7,762 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc
00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - I couldn't really agree your explanation about the pattern variety here. This pattern was a mixture of a squares and a similar pattern usage also appears at 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) where the music is slightly different. Applying a similar idea at different parts of the music felt to be lacking in structure. That was why I questioned this pattern not being a zigzag. If you wanted this as a variation, then what was the reason of it?

I understand pattern varieties to create more interesting stuff, but I also believe that those varieties should have a reasoning behind its existence at the first place. Rather it being from the song, or from the map itself. Pattern variety doesn't just happen without any reason. Mapping logics, you know. For example, you've consistently expressed the shoutings of the song as zigzag slider flows at 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 01:39:772 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 02:26:362 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 02:28:028 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 02:29:742 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 02:31:456 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - . While the visual aspects all differed, they had a consistent concept at similar parts of the song which created a structure. Such similar concept wasn't applied at different parts of the song. If one of those suddenly had a rotation concept applied while having no reason to back up, calling it a variety would be less logical.

Some fragmentary examples again:
  1. 02:44:123 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - The anti-clockwise flow changed to a clockwise flow at 02:45:349 (3,1), the forth (1). and at 02:47:677 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3), such flow change happens at 02:48:456 (3,1) which is the third (1). Why? What lead to this kind of a difference? Was there a musical difference to support this variation? or any mapping reason that lead to this variation?
  2. 03:15:390 (1,2) - 03:19:409 (1,2) - 03:23:442 (1,2) - etc- Mappings of the "stop stop" part. I can understand the decision to avoid things being way too repetitive if these are the only 1/2 sliders happening in a row. But as you can see at the part without "stop stop" vocals, 03:17:398 (1,2) - 03:21:425 (1,2) - 03:25:478 (1,2) - you've also expressed these parts of the song as two 1/2 sliders. Since you've decided a variation each vocal part, I can not question why some are parallels while some are 120 degree rotation blankets. Yet, I'm questioning the decision of a variation itself. Since every two 1/2 sliders differ all the time, they didn't really turned out as a recognizable pattern even the spacing concepts were commonly applied. There's no difference between "stop stop" 1/2 sliders vs. non-"stop stop" 1/2 sliders. There's no similarity between each "stop stop" 1/2 sliders or between each non-"stop stop" 1/2 sliders. Indeed they are similar in song, but also not exactly the same.
While the stop stop winny upload part was at least in a technically organized manner by spacing or visual concepts, the overall structure issue I'm feeling is the same as the metal part. The map itself is not really that bad. It introduces interesting mapping concepts for this kind of a song. Just that I don't think it's the top quality material.

Reflecting the song as a map is what I regard as "structures" which I consider highly important. It seems you've interpreted this song to be unique all the time, but it's not like the song being different all the time every new stanza. Some parts majorly differ, while some parts are showing a similar musical flow.

Major composition differences were being made as section differs, but composition similarities in similar parts of the song were rather weak. Without a supporting logic behind, different patterns are just being different each instead of forming a variation. I'd like you to think more than "why not?" when deciding variations for your future mappings.

I'm keeping my veto. Other BNs might feel this map valuable enough so maybe you can ask them.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata

Sonnyc wrote:

00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - I couldn't really agree your explanation about the pattern variety here. This pattern was a mixture of a squares and a similar pattern usage also appears at 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) where the music is slightly different. Applying a similar idea at different parts of the music felt to be lacking in structure. That was why I questioned this pattern not being a zigzag. If you wanted this as a variation, then what was the reason of it? Those are entirely different in terms of context. You sould be comparing that timestamp to 00:51:250 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - . Listen to how similar it is to 00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - . I used zigzag for the first one, then rotational for the second one. That's the variety. Now listen to 00:55:579 - and listen to 00:59:022 - . They are the same stanza repeated twice. So you have patterning 1, 1, 2, 2. But here you're trying to compare 1 with 3, a jump sequence that doesn't even have the same rhythmic context. It's like trying to say "why is 02:57:257 (1) - not the same as 04:39:787 (1) - ?" Well, obviously they aren't the same because they aren't even part of the same rhythm structure. The first time stamp isn't related to the second in terms of stanzas, it just shares a similar flow but the context is completely different.

I understand pattern varieties to create more interesting stuff, but I also believe that those varieties should have a reasoning behind its existence at the first place. Rather it being from the song, or from the map itself. Pattern variety doesn't just happen without any reason. Mapping logics, you know. For example, you've consistently expressed the shoutings of the song as zigzag slider flows at 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 01:39:772 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 02:26:362 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 02:28:028 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 02:29:742 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 02:31:456 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - . While the visual aspects all differed, they had a consistent concept at similar parts of the song which created a structure. Such similar concept wasn't applied at different parts of the song. If one of those suddenly had a rotation concept applied while having no reason to back up, calling it a variety would be less logical.

There is a lot of reasoning going in. The first two stanzas, I used variety of flow movement, linear to rotational. It makes sense because that stanza is only repeated once. If you consider them as one pairing, then you can see that. The second stanza beginning at 00:55:579 - follows a different method of variety. Instead of switching flows, i'm using spacing increase, movement, and orientation. 00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Is down, ending up, zigzagging to the left of the screen. 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - is larger spacing, and zigzagging to the right.

Comparing 00:51:250 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - to 00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - isn't fair because they aren't the same stanza. They happen to be similar in flow (though the first is an upward zigzag movement that shifts angles noticeably too) but you really shouldn't consider them as having to be consistent. Listen to the measure befor,e especially with the vocals, it should already show that they are not similar.

Some fragmentary examples again:
  1. 02:44:123 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - The anti-clockwise flow changed to a clockwise flow at 02:45:349 (3,1), the forth (1). and at 02:47:677 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3), such flow change happens at 02:48:456 (3,1) which is the third (1). Why? What lead to this kind of a difference? Was there a musical difference to support this variation? or any mapping reason that lead to this variation? No, there was not. And there shouldn't need to be in order to justify every change in flow. Are you going to say stuff like : 03:26:728 (4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - require some musical difference to support flow changes too? Because this is what I've literally done for all my ranked maps so far. Pattern variety, and flow shifts are not always mapped to the song, but are simply self-contained. Managing flow to that extent is completely unreasonable, because it absolutely restricts mapping way too much. My style is already very restrictive in terms of object placement, it doesn't need to be clouded by some necessity to map every flow shift to something significant in the song. I'm disagreeing with your point because I do it all the time, and I don't believe flow shifts necessarily have to map to something in the song. I don't believe this point improves the map, or any of my maps because I wouldn't have applied it on normal songs either. You are really analyzing too far in. You can say the same about how some of the angles I use on the map don't correspond to the song either. Like how some I use a sharp angle for some patterns, and a wider angle on another. I can't give you a reason because there doesn't need to be a reason for literally every minute change.
  2. 03:15:390 (1,2) - 03:19:409 (1,2) - 03:23:442 (1,2) - etc- Mappings of the "stop stop" part. I can understand the decision to avoid things being way too repetitive if these are the only 1/2 sliders happening in a row. But as you can see at the part without "stop stop" vocals, 03:17:398 (1,2) - 03:21:425 (1,2) - 03:25:478 (1,2) - you've also expressed these parts of the song as two 1/2 sliders. Since you've decided a variation each vocal part, I can not question why some are parallels while some are 120 degree rotation blankets. Yet, I'm questioning the decision of a variation itself. Since every two 1/2 sliders differ all the time, they didn't really turned out as a recognizable pattern even the spacing concepts were commonly applied. There's no difference between "stop stop" 1/2 sliders vs. non-"stop stop" 1/2 sliders. There's no similarity between each "stop stop" 1/2 sliders or between each non-"stop stop" 1/2 sliders. Indeed they are similar in song, but also not exactly the same. But that's just rhythm? I don't have to make a distinction because they are just the same rhythms... Just because its a vocal doesn't mean I absolutely need to map it differently to the non vocal part, especially considering they are still the same rhythm that only emphasize the white tick, and thus need a 1/2 slider rhythm. Are you saying all vocal sections should use linear sliders and non-vocals should use curved? Because if so that's just completely ridiculous and hinders the map's design unnecessarily. Not to mention thats just digging way too deep into trying to find some inconsistencies in expression.
While the stop stop winny upload part was at least in a technically organized manner by spacing or visual concepts, the overall structure issue I'm feeling is the same as the metal part. The map itself is not really that bad. It introduces interesting mapping concepts for this kind of a song. Just that I don't think it's the top quality material.

Reflecting the song as a map is what I regard as "structures" which I consider highly important. It seems you've interpreted this song to be unique all the time, but it's not like the song being different all the time every new stanza. Some parts majorly differ, while some parts are showing a similar musical flow.

Major composition differences were being made as section differs, but composition similarities in similar parts of the song were rather weak. Without a supporting logic behind, different patterns are just being different each instead of forming a variation. I'd like you to think more than "why not?" when deciding variations for your future mappings.

I'm keeping my veto. Other BNs might feel this map valuable enough so maybe you can ask them.
I think you're really grasping at straws here, especially with how you're trying to attach some mapping significance to every minute detail in the song. I can't give you a reason why I changed flow at exactly this point, for every object in the map, yet you are pinpointing them as an issue that prevents it from being ranked. Look at any of my ranked maps, sure they respect emphasis, flow, and movement to a good degree, but none of them follow it exactly. I don't have a system that says "oh this is a downbeat, I need to switch flow from counterclockwise to clockwise now". That is far too restrictive, and results in extremely boring and predictable mapping.

Well, I'll just ask Kurai for help then because I really think there is no basis for this veto at all. You are free to reconsider your points if you want to discuss them further.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
I'd also recommend you taking a look at maps like:

RADWIMPS - Nandemo Nai ya
IAHN - Transform (Original Mix)
Porter Robinson - Goodbye To A World

In terms of how they handled pattern variation, or lack thereof. Your argument was that there were no real distinctions between vocal / non vocal sections in terms of patterning on the Winny Upload section, yet Nandemo Nai ya uses the same sliders and flows for vocal / non vocal sections all the time.

(See: 04:11:400 (2,3,4,5,1) - 04:24:614 (2,3,1) - 04:31:757 (2,3) - 02:21:936 (3,4,1) - 02:42:650 (1,1) - etc...) There is no concept of distinction between vocal / non-vocal expression because they aren't inherently different. I use the same curved slider for a vocal note, then again when there are no vocals. They used the same flow, there was no unique spacing shift, or any noticeable movement/rotational shift.

In terms of flow, you argued for there being some justification of when flow shifts occur. I don't believe maps need to change flow at specific points of time, and as a result, my maps often demonstrate flow shifts that occur outside of downbeats or noticeably strong/unique sounds. On Transform, you can see flow shifts taken place on places like:

(See: 01:47:726 (5) - 00:30:225 (4,1,2) - 00:32:036 (3,4,5) - 01:29:278 (2) - etc...)

You also argued for there being some sort of justification for clockwise / anti-clockwise / zigzag flow, and argued that there should be some musical justification for mapping these changes. I don't believe there absolutely needs to be musical justification, and I think variety as a reason should be enough. On Goodbye To A World, there are a lot of slider spam sections that use a variety of clockwise, anti clockwise, and zigzag flowing slider movements. My selection of pattern and design did not follow any predictable flow concept, ie some sections were clockwise, and switched to counterclockwise or zigzag in arbitrary sections.

(See: 03:15:027 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - 01:15:027 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - etc...)

My argument being that these maps have a lot of examples of places where I break, or don't even consider the issues you brought up in your mod post. Yet, these maps were clearly constructed with structure, aesthetic, flow, and movements in mind - a lot more structural, patternal, and aesthetical reasoning than Alien's metal sections - so there would have been even more reason to bring stuff like this up on those maps seeing as I wasn't even trying to create visual inconsistencies like alien, or aesthetically displeasing patterns. These maps demonstrate clear issues according to your mod on alien... Yet you nominated these maps.
Neto
Beatmap Nominator
1,295 posts
Joined October 2014
Neto
All this text for such a simple map...
Anyway since you're taking mods yet again there's something I really wanted to see changed;

  1. 04:33:754 (1,1,1,1) - the "Stop" slider arts should be done accodingly to the actually letters if that's your intention.

    If you're doing an "S" 04:33:754 (1) - and "P" 04:39:787 (1) - with the capital shape of the letters, making the "O" as a circle 04:37:763 (1) - and "T" with this curvature https://puu.sh/wStIz.jpg on the tail 04:35:730 (1) - is really off imo. Your map has a strong focus on the visual aspect, as this whole thread suggests, so why not improving this specific part?

    having the "T" with a straight tail https://puu.sh/wStsd.jpg makes way more sense, and to avoid burai you just to need to lower a bit more the third red anchor point. About the "O" something like this https://puu.sh/wStBN.jpg makes more sense to me. (didn't match the y axis on the symmetry because it's just an ellipse design example, instead of the usual 3 point curvature design).

About the whole map thing:
you're all empty minded if you think that this map is new and controversial. Probably the first map with this concept to reach 8*, but not new. Anyway GL Monstrata, you should run a pool with all BNs with: []alien can get ranked []alien can't get ranked and stop the wasted time on this thread.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
I think the current sliders are fine. The curve on the T looks nice imo which is why I want to keep. And the O, i think making it oval makes it look too much like a U that was overcurved. Circular makes the most sense imo when thinking of an O.
Neto
Beatmap Nominator
1,295 posts
Joined October 2014
Neto

Monstrata wrote:

I think the current sliders are fine. The curve on the T looks nice imo which is why I want to keep. And the O, i think making it oval makes it look too much like a U that was overcurved. Circular makes the most sense imo when thinking of an O.
Just in case I wasn't clear enough with my mod:
current stop
possible stop
If you still think your "T" shape is better I can see your reason, but saying the "O" shape looks like an "U" is pretty much lazy responding to my suggestion since I didn't give you an alternative example, but rather slider design suggestion. Take it if you want ,after all it's your map :3
SPOILER
you can disagree with my mod, but dont give me bs reasons xD
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
The O design doesn't make more sense to me. I prefer my current one.
-Master-
152 posts
Joined October 2015
-Master-
I.. actually agree with that... god I can't belive myself
Aeril
Elite Nominator
715 posts
Joined May 2014
Aeril
uhh, an O isn't really an oval, your 'O' is kinda like a 0 / zero
ZekeyHache
3,316 posts
Joined October 2009
ZekeyHache
the "O" is not an "O" 👀
Doguu
114 posts
Joined September 2014
Doguu
I don't really know what's going on but I think these mods are ruining the map... The map fit the song better before and when it was loved. Now it seems that nitpicking preventing it from being ranked is reducing quality by forcing changes. Monstrata I hope you get this ranked but I don't think with these "mods" it can. I really used to enjoy the map though. Have what little kudosu I have to offer and stay strong (۶•̀ᴗ•́)۶
7ambda
2,596 posts
Joined January 2015
7ambda
Liking the changes in the beginning.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-

ezek wrote:

the "O" is not an "O" 👀
Please DQ if not fixed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ /jk

Maybe we could stop this pointless drama and move on, rank this already and forget?
Are you guys gonna continue to deny concepts which breaks "mapping purely for pp meta"?

As I said, right now where over 90% maps are just copy paste without actual quality - If map is right in term of ranking criteria and follow guidelines, in this case, Monstrata map is right in both, it is rankable.

At least Monstrata have idea for some creativity which goes out of this pointless mapping meta.

I would say - with all this complains, maybe you should start paying money to Monstrata for all this fixes which goes out of his initial concept.
napie09
74 posts
Joined January 2014
napie09
this shit is getting ridiculous. Rank it
Tsukioka Kogane
308 posts
Joined December 2015
Tsukioka Kogane
I realized map has no kiais, there's nothing wrong with it but I think you could add some where the most intense screaming starts at 01:34:630 - 01:41:058 - and 02:26:362 - 02:33:170 -

you could use those flashes and make a extended one here: 02:36:797 - 02:50:353 -
Shortthu
501 posts
Joined February 2016
Shortthu
no kiai is fine
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata

MrMenda wrote:

I realized map has no kiais, there's nothing wrong with it but I think you could add some where the most intense screaming starts at 01:34:630 - 01:41:058 - and 02:26:362 - 02:33:170 -

you could use those flashes and make a extended one here: 02:36:797 - 02:50:353 -
Kiai's cause a section of music to stand out over the other. I don't want any part of this map to stand out over the other, I think they are uniquely different and the metal section isn't "more musically important" than the pop section which is why there is no Kiai to give visual emphasis.
Sonnyc
7,762 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc
Are you going to say stuff like : 03:26:728 (4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - require some musical difference to support flow changes too?
My answer is a yes, or at least you should be able to explain that difference based on the mapping logics you've applied.

Reviewing from your replies, I'm pretty sure that you've got the point what I'm trying to say regarding the structures. Just that it seems you can't really understand "why" they are issues. Let me elaborate in that respect.

Beatmap is a secondary creation that reflects a particular song via placements, movements, visual concepts, rhythmic choices and several other mapping aspects. And reflecting a song as a map does not mean just simply giving an overall feeling as song goes by. It's about reflecting the musical aspects inside the song because as I've said, beatmap is a secondary creation based on the song. A map does not exist its own without a music. Reflecting the song may be done in a different extent as what music aspect people prioritize, yet the essence remains the same. Objects that are combined with the mapping aspects I've mentioned before form a logic when corresponding with the song. That logic and correspondence show how the map is reflecting the song.

I've considered the continuous variation of patterns to be less corresponding to this particular song which made me feel the map lacking in structures. That's why I've asked for extra explanations to figure out if there were any backing logics that I've failed to detect. Some explanations were satisfactory, but for most points I've made, the common answer I've got is that you can't explain because there is no way to. Maybe it is hard to tell the reason for initial mapping concepts as it involve one's mapping style. But once a logic presents, it is possible to explain stuffs that are under those logics. Reasons for the flows, aesthetics, placements etc based on the mapping logic you wanted to express the structure of music-beatmap correlation.

You already know yourself that this kind of stuff presents in your previous maps. Even the ones I've nominated, you say. Those issue presented yet deserved my nomination because each map had a much bigger value that compensates the weak structure in my opinion. (Won't be mentioning those individually since I don't think this is the appropriate spot for that.) If I decided to decline a nomination for those maps despite the greater values I've felt, there would be literally 0 beatmaps to nominate in this game for me.

If you think I'm just nitpicking over extremely minor issues that you didn't even considered as an issue, then I've got to say congratulations. It is a mapping perspective that you never seriously considered while mapping until now as a mapper, yet something extremely essential in the very grounds of mapping which you can consider to improve further as a mapper.

You are really an expert in designing objects in technical ways. I can say your skills are top class as far as I've saw from this game. But the ones I'm mentioning here are the weakness of your mappings. It's not only at this map 'alien' as you've well explained yourself. You may disagree personally with my decision on being too harsh, but please understand that my opinion did not pop out of 0 basis.

I hope I've got nothing more to add for now.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata

Sonnyc wrote:

Are you going to say stuff like : 03:26:728 (4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - require some musical difference to support flow changes too?
My answer is a yes, or at least you should be able to explain that difference based on the mapping logics you've applied.

Reviewing from your replies, I'm pretty sure that you've got the point what I'm trying to say regarding the structures. Just that it seems you can't really understand "why" they are issues. Let me elaborate in that respect.

Beatmap is a secondary creation that reflects a particular song via placements, movements, visual concepts, rhythmic choices and several other mapping aspects. And reflecting a song as a map does not mean just simply giving an overall feeling as song goes by. It's about reflecting the musical aspects inside the song because as I've said, beatmap is a secondary creation based on the song. A map does not exist its own without a music. Reflecting the song may be done in a different extent as what music aspect people prioritize, yet the essence remains the same. Objects that are combined with the mapping aspects I've mentioned before form a logic when corresponding with the song. That logic and correspondence show how the map is reflecting the song.

I've considered the continuous variation of patterns to be less corresponding to this particular song which made me feel the map lacking in structures. That's why I've asked for extra explanations to figure out if there were any backing logics that I've failed to detect. Some explanations were satisfactory, but for most points I've made, the common answer I've got is that you can't explain because there is no way to. Maybe it is hard to tell the reason for initial mapping concepts as it involve one's mapping style. But once a logic presents, it is possible to explain stuffs that are under those logics. Reasons for the flows, aesthetics, placements etc based on the mapping logic you wanted to express the structure of music-beatmap correlation.

You already know yourself that this kind of stuff presents in your previous maps. Even the ones I've nominated, you say. Those issue presented yet deserved my nomination because each map had a much bigger value that compensates the weak structure in my opinion. If I decided to decline a nomination for those maps despite the greater values I've felt, there would be literally 0 beatmaps to nominate in this game for me.

If you think I'm just nitpicking over extremely minor issues that you didn't even considered as an issue, then I've got to say congratulations. It is a mapping perspective that you never seriously considered while mapping until now as a mapper, yet something extremely essential in the very grounds of mapping which you can consider to improve further as a mapper.

You are really an expert in designing objects in technical ways. I can say your skills are top class as far as I've saw from this game. But the ones I'm mentioning here are the weakness of your mappings. It's not only at this map 'alien' as you've well explained yourself. You may disagree personally with my decision on being too harsh, but please understand that my opinion did not pop out of 0 basis.

I hope I've got nothing more to add for now.
I think this is the error of the old mapping style. It cared too much about unnecessary consistencies, for example making sure flows were the same when comparing timestamps from literally 2 minutes apart (as you did earlier with those jumps). These are consistencies born from modders, not from players. A player will not look at a specific flow used 2 minutes ago and ask why it was used again here 2 minutes later, or why it wasn't. It's just too unnecessarily analytical and is born from a modders need to find consistencies or other issues that would not affect the map's enjoyability in the slightest.

In any case you have provided no time stamps, no examples of how to remedy the issue you proposed, nor have you replied to my comments so I cannot further this discussion. I'm not here to discuss mapping philosophies with you, this is not the thread for it. If you'd like to discuss my map, and reply to the things i mentioned above (in reference to your initial mod) then we can maybe go somewhere.

I have no intention of trying this "mapping aspect" you mentioned anyways because I think respecting consistency, just like respecting emphasis completely will just result in banal maps that no one will remember or play after 3 days :P. You are constructing maps for a game, not for some educational purpose or institutional purpose. Keep things fun and make unique changes to the map. If you respect emphasis on every single jump sequence you make, they will not be interesting in the slightest and will just feel like any other pp farm map. If that is your objective, then that's fine, but please don't impose this onto maps that are clearly not trying to be your typical pp farm anime style maps xP.

This discussion will go no where until you reply to what I've actually mentioned in my reply. Again, I'll stress that it's the map we are discussing, not your mapping philosophy and why you think I should change mine. My philosophy clearly has found more success.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Also, adding to that, if beatmaps only "reflected" the song, then maps like Can Do, Nandemo nai ya, Transform, would not have existed. Mapping isn't limited to just reflecting music. It is also about interpreting music, creating variance, and most importantly, introducing gameplay elements to the music. You map a song because you want to create a fun gameplay experience for the player. If your objective is to construct a map that embodies the song perfectly, good for you, but you've lost the game element of mapping. In any case, my decisions for flow changes, spacings, patterns, are not created because I think using a triangular pattern will emphasize the music better. They are born from my decision that using this specific movement will play well, or that switching movement will allow specific patterns to be more interesting to play. Your argument is that I am not following consistency fully. My argument is that there is no need to follow consistency fully. If you look at my map, I already do so for a good 80-90% of it.

You told me before, that you wished you could map something that people will remember you by. Perhaps you should take from my perspective instead and not just produce maps that reflect the song, but rather maps that make an otherwise boring song interesting or fun. If you reflect a boring and unmemorable song, your map will be equally boring and unmemorable because that's what you've reflected.
Sonnyc
7,762 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc
It was a generic statement regarding this entire beatmap. Examples regarding the beatmap were questioned to get a better understanding of yours about this map at previous posts, and you gave me your response. Also examples are examples, nothing more than that. I'm not questioning specific patterns but the whole structure idea implemented in this map.

Also in where did I mentioned this map to become a generic pp map? Please avoid making statements based on assumptions. In case such misunderstanding happened because I haven't gave you a solution for the issues I've mentioned, I'd like to talk again about one of the examples that was addressed previously.

03:15:390 (1,2) - 03:19:409 (1,2) - 03:23:442 (1,2) - 03:17:398 (1,2) - 03:21:425 (1,2) - 03:25:478 (1,2) - When I was questioning these 1/2 sliders, you were frustrated rather you should be using linears for vocals, and curves for non-vocals. Actually that could be one solution, but maybe a dramatic example. It was the slider shape, the visual aspects that came up in your mind. However giving similarities in similar music elements and differences in different music elements can literally be done in any aspect. Flows could be one. Or also spacing concepts. 03:17:398 (1,2) this for example shares a same visual concept according to visual spacings, but when it comes to actual distance snapping, this one is having a close spacing while others are having a distant spacing. Maybe you can differentiate expressions by applying this kind of spacing ideas. Setting specific suggestions aside, the only generic suggestion I can give is cto classify your pattern usage based on the "song". It may sound as a generic boring uninteresting concept at glance, but it is because making a good map without such trait is difficult. Just that.

Lastly, it's quite hard to understand that you aren't using mapping aspects. Maybe there was some misunderstandings, but there are no maps without a flow, and no map without a visuality. (Ugly visuals are still a visual.) It was this what I was meaning.

I'm seeing this discussion going in nowhere of a productive direction than I expected since not much agreements are being made. If you got your other BN ready, I'm suggesting to end our discussion and get yourself pushing this set further with the following BN. However if you still think my veto is unjustified, I'll keep have to voice my opinion.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
It's unnecessary to create distinctions between vocal / nonvocal sliders. They are following the exact same rhythm, mapped to 1/2 sliders. Listen to the main melody, it's what I'm following. Rather, creating a distinction distracts from the map itself because i'm clearly not using any mapping aspects to highlight the vocals on the section over the instruments, so recommending that I map the instrumental section differently from the vocal only creates an unnecessary design rift in the map. You are trying to assign some sort of specific mapping aspect to vocals, and a different mapping aspect to instruments, but this ends up causing the map to feel disparate like there are two different elements that keep switching one to another. Consider it as a whole section of music, not a collection of two or three slider patterns strung together. Your proposal damages the cohesion of the map and unnecessarily attempts to distinguish musical sections from vocals when they should be mapped in the same way since they are both following the main melody.

Since there is nothing to add, we can proceed with the rebubble.
Kurai
osu! Alumni
7,734 posts
Joined March 2009
Kurai
Alo l'espace

I am fine with rebubbling the map as it is. The map is more than feasible for skilled players and there are enough people backing it, there is no reason to keep this thread going round in circles any longer, I'm getting tired of this standoff, you're not going to reach a consensus anyway. Enjoy the bubble!

I should not have to say this, but keep the discussion civilised. Any inappropriate comment will be removed and sanctions will be issued.

8-)
Ovoui
995 posts
Joined January 2013
Ovoui
I hope this bubble will stay...

How could you pop a bubble from the cutest GM...


Btw good luck for your set Monstroto!
DiB
16 posts
Joined February 2017
DiB
01:38:058 - Really nice chill song ,ez pp
booty
225 posts
Joined July 2014
booty
Good luck Monstrata!
Xexxar
913 posts
Joined June 2013
Xexxar

Kurai wrote:

Alo l'espace

I am fine with rebubbling the map as it is. The map is more than feasible for skilled players and there are enough people backing it, there is no reason to keep this thread going round in circles any longer, I'm getting tired of this standoff, you're not going to reach a consensus anyway. Enjoy the bubble!

I should not have to say this, but keep the discussion civilised. Any inappropriate comment will be removed and sanctions will be issued.

8-)

Xexxar wrote:

Do you people not even read the BNG rules when you get added? Did you just assume you can nominate anything? You're 60k dude and a brand new BN, why do you think you can judge this?

I think you should be kicked from the BNG for your actions here.
I wonder how many maps it will take before QAT actually enforces any rules on BNG members.
ZekeyHache
3,316 posts
Joined October 2009
ZekeyHache
Holy bible
Dawns
215 posts
Joined July 2014
Dawns

Xexxar wrote:

Kurai wrote:

-snip for convenience and readability-

Xexxar wrote:

Do you people not even read the BNG rules when you get added? Did you just assume you can nominate anything? You're 60k dude and a brand new BN, why do you think you can judge this?

I think you should be kicked from the BNG for your actions here.
I wonder how many maps it will take before QAT actually enforces any rules on BNG members.

Hello Xexxar! Just thought I'd check in and toss a non circlejerk opinion into the mix.

I believe it's completely justified that the map is bubbled seeing the reasoning that the veto on it was poorly done with not much reasoning beyond "eh i dont like it/its not playable". Monstrata has made an attempt (and quite well done!) to explain virtually every note within the beatmap at this point. Rank does not effect how good a mapper you are and aren't (You're 3k, We get it. It doesn't exactly make your opinion any more valid than anyone else's.). Kurai has simply reinstated a bubble which imo shouldn't have been popped in the first place. If you think the map sucks, that's great! We're all entitled to our own opinions, heck, it's why the modding system exists., If you have sat and modded the map and had it responded to and it ended in a way you didn't like; that's really sad for you but unfortunately it is ultimately the mappers decisions how they make their map.

If you can find anything wrong with this map beyond "DAE NOT LIKE ALIEN?" point it out here. I'm sure the BNG would take the steps necessary to make Monstrata change anything that is fundamentally flawed, however, at this point in time; from the perspective of many, it seems the map is ready for a bubble and possibly the qualified section.

Please be civil in this thread (However difficult it may be for you :s), calling out Kurai because he's made a decision you do not like and feel breaks the rules is NOT the type of stuff that is honestly suitable in a thread being this heavily monitored. Passive aggressiveness against people is bad.

--

That bit of the comment done! Gratz on the bubble. I look forward to seeing the development of this map (good song :thumbsup:), your recent changes have made the map better in my opinion. Best of luck moving forward Monstrata!
Xexxar
913 posts
Joined June 2013
Xexxar
Why are you telling me this? I'm simply expressing my opinion that Kurai's actions here are in violation of BNG rules and am wondering when something will be done about it. Kurai is not re-instilling a bubble, he is stating that he is qualified to judge and nominate this map because the previous bubble was veto'd (over subjective issues, which is allowed).

Thanks for the non-circlejerk opinion dude!
Yuutai
18 posts
Joined February 2011
Yuutai

Xexxar wrote:

Why are you telling me this? I'm simply expressing my opinion that Kurai's actions here are in violation of BNG rules and am wondering when something will be done about it. Kurai is not re-instilling a bubble, he is stating that he is qualified to judge and nominate this map because the previous bubble was veto'd (over subjective issues, which is allowed).

Thanks for the non-circlejerk opinion dude!

No Xexxar, you have to understand those rules only apply when disqualifying The Empress or preventing Gone with the Blast from qualifying. Those maps clearly made the mistake of not being A-L-I-E-N and therefore don't deserve to be nominated to rank status (or trying that for 4 times now).
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Rank is quite irrelevant when you are proficient in modding and mapping. If I nominated 7-8 star maps no one would question me. And even if someone did, there's nothing the staff can do because they can't determine that I'm unable to judge these maps.
Yuutai
18 posts
Joined February 2011
Yuutai

Monstrata wrote:

Rank is quite irrelevant when you are proficient in modding and mapping. If I nominated 7-8 star maps no one would question me. And even if someone did, there's nothing the staff can do because they can't determine that I'm unable to judge these maps.

Weird.

Please explain to me then how this:



was allowed to happen. Apparently there is something that staff or QAT or some people can do. The question is if it's because of modding skill or if it's just having the QAT at your mercy.
Nitroz
140 posts
Joined November 2014
Nitroz
das a lot of posts on a beatmap thread lol
Xexxar
913 posts
Joined June 2013
Xexxar

Monstrata wrote:

Rank is quite irrelevant when you are proficient in modding and mapping. If I nominated 7-8 star maps no one would question me. And even if someone did, there's nothing the staff can do because they can't determine that I'm unable to judge these maps.
Yes but Monstrata you have much more experience as a nominator under 2017 mapping standards. The same cannot be said about Kurai.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,424 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
How good you can judge a map isn't determined by the rank but amount of experience you have over the time. Someone which is around for five years does know more at some point than someone for two years although they have the same (skill) rank.
Ekoro
3,456 posts
Joined March 2010
Ekoro
the fact kurai went inactive (and came back) doesn't mean he lost all of his mapping/modding abilities lol

there's a few cases of mappers who can map hard difficulties while not being able to play them so why that wouldn't be the same for modders?
not being able to play a map doesn't mean you can't judge it properly. you can be experimented with the editor more than the actual game itself.
Kurai
osu! Alumni
7,734 posts
Joined March 2009
Kurai
If you have concerns about me being able to judge this map properly, I invite you to file a complaint to the QAT. This thread is not the place where you should be doing that as it is going to bring unwanted negativity to the debate once again.

Being able to play the map in its entirety is, I believe, not a factor to judge a map properly; it is obviously an asset but in no case a requirement. As long as I understand the logic behind the patterns, I believe I am more than qualified to nominate this beatmap. This is also why the modal "may" has been used in the BNG rule you keep telling everyone I broke. The use of this modal clearly means that being a skilled player is not only what it takes to be able to judge a map.

I don't understand you at all. I am trying to push this map forward, doing what no one else really wants to do because no one likes doing the dirty job, yet you still find something to complain about? You are slowing down the qualifying process of this map by doing that. If any action has to be taken for my doings, a QAT will contact me and I will be glad to explain to them why I deemed myself qualified to bubble this map (don't worry, the QAT are well aware that I bubbled it).

In conclusion: if you have any concern about this map being bubbled, I invite you to point out the issues proving it unworthy of receiving a bubble. Anything else is irrelevent to the topic.
Natsu
8,088 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu
almost there 8-)

Edit: This map has been tested and modded a lot, so I don't think kurai's icon here is wrong, even if he can't judge the map properly, there are 67 pages of feedback...
Last edited by Natsu , edited 1 time in total.
Mir
osu! Alumni
2,152 posts
Joined July 2016
Mir

Natsu wrote:

almost there 8-)
nat-su fast
Yuutai
18 posts
Joined February 2011
Yuutai

Kurai wrote:

As long as I understand the logic behind the patterns, I believe I am more than qualified to nominate this beatmap. This is also why the modal "may" has been used in the BNG rule you keep telling everyone I broke.
Actually, as you can see in the screenshot above, the modal is must not/are not allowed. It's not a guideline apparently.
Kurai
osu! Alumni
7,734 posts
Joined March 2009
Kurai

Yuutai wrote:

Kurai wrote:

As long as I understand the logic behind the patterns, I believe I am more than qualified to nominate this beatmap. This is also why the modal "may" has been used in the BNG rule you keep telling everyone I broke.
Actually, as you can see in the screenshot above, the modal is must not/are not allowed. It's not a guideline apparently.


I have no idea where you got your screenshot from.
Yuutai
18 posts
Joined February 2011
Yuutai

Kurai wrote:

I have no idea where you got your screenshot from.

My screenshot comes from here. t/470459/start=345

And even if we use yours - the defining modal here is "Do not", not "may". By that logic as long as nobody complained we wouldn't have had any problems ranking Bloodthirsty Nightmare/The Empress in the first place.
Kurai
osu! Alumni
7,734 posts
Joined March 2009
Kurai

Yuutai wrote:

Kurai wrote:

I have no idea where you got your screenshot from.

My screenshot comes from here. t/470459/start=345

And even if we use yours - the defining modal here is "Do not", not "may". By that logic as long as nobody complained we wouldn't have had any problems ranking Bloodthirsty Nightmare/The Empress in the first place.
"Do not" refers to nominating a map when you are unable to judge it.
"May" refers to the idea of considering a nominator unable to judge a 8* map when they are 60k.
Which means that I am not necessarily deemed unable to judge a 8* map if I am 60k.

Anyway this conversation is irrelevent and is not contributing in any way in getting this ranked.
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding
How many BNs have veto'd this map so far? Just an innocent question
Hobbes2
osu! Alumni
2,251 posts
Joined March 2016
Hobbes2

Kisses wrote:

How many BNs have veto'd this map so far? Just an innocent question
After loved -->

Nao bubbles map
Monstrata self pops for updates
I bubble map (I could have qualified but i figured rebubbling was the safer option given the maps controversy)
Kagetsu vetos my bubble
After discussion with Monstrata, Kagetsu rescinds his veto.
I rebubble map
Sonnyc vetos my bubble
Kurai bubbles map
body
body
And now 🅱op the 🅱ubble. Or else.

EDIT: holy shit 1008 posts. This is one GODLY thread.
SnowNiNo_
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
2,108 posts
Joined April 2013
SnowNiNo_
y is a single map triggering so many ppl
its just a circle clicking game lmao
Last edited by Kurai , edited 1 time in total.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
Please do not DQ this, let this map be ranked already so it will force some ways to let other creative maps get ranked.

Like really, for all god and evil souls - just get some common sense and stop being drama queens (and kings).

For next DQ, If someone point out "I don't like this object, please elaborate", I shall find explanation in this topic and link it to prove how artificial and hostile this DQ are now. Mark my words!

Good luck Monstrata!

/me going back to lurk around
Underforest
5,895 posts
Joined July 2015
Underforest

SnowNiNo_ wrote:

y is a single map triggering so many ppl
its just a circle clicking game lmao
agree
QTS
25 posts
Joined September 2013
QTS
Tbh I respect the fact that Monstrata has taken a different approach to getting this map ranked. Back in the days, it seemed like you were just kind of the dick you wanted to be, which goes something along the lines of "Since I am Monstrata I can rank whatever I want" kind of mentality. The reason why I really got irritated by your behaviour in the past was due to the fact that you wanted to rank something for the point of "showing how much potential power you could have" and also the fact that you wanted to make the highest * map this specific map. I guess I didn't have too great of an issue with the fact that it would've been the highest * rank but your approach to it was just garbage.

Personally, I still don't think it should be ranked, but yeah. I don't know what it is that makes me feel so against the map, maybe the "ugliness" in itself or just the fact that it has a bunch of RNG jumps that no one besides AUTO will hit. Just rambling.
Kynan
497 posts
Joined September 2011
Kynan

filsdelmao wrote:

Personally, I still don't think it should be ranked, but yeah. I don't know what it is that makes me feel so against the map, maybe the "ugliness" in itself or just the fact that it has a bunch of RNG jumps that no one besides AUTO will hit. Just rambling.
The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week, they're just wider. If anything they flow even better than those "perfectly fine" maps.
QTS
25 posts
Joined September 2013
QTS

Kynan wrote:

filsdelmao wrote:

Personally, I still don't think it should be ranked, but yeah. I don't know what it is that makes me feel so against the map, maybe the "ugliness" in itself or just the fact that it has a bunch of RNG jumps that no one besides AUTO will hit. Just rambling.
The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week, they're just wider. If anything they flow even better than those "perfectly fine" maps.
Maybe the flow is "fine" if that is what you truly consider to be fine. I'd love to see you attempt to hit those, and if you do, kudos to you.
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding

Kynan wrote:

The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week
If the patterns are similar to trash maps then does that make this a trash map? :thinking:
QTS
25 posts
Joined September 2013
QTS

Kisses wrote:

Kynan wrote:

The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week
If the patterns are similar to trash maps then does that make this a trash map? :thinking:
You're right. That is indeed contradictory.
body
body

[Taiga] wrote:

creative
Huh, that word is not what I would describe this map as at all. If this is creative then I'm actually the coolest person on Earth 8-) 8-)
fieryrage
Former osu! Champion: 2023
1,458 posts
Joined November 2013
fieryrage

body wrote:

[Taiga] wrote:

creative
Huh, that word is not what I would describe this map as at all. If this is creative then I'm actually the coolest person on Earth 8-) 8-)
bro ur like 100k and ur judging a map that's 8.5 stars with no mapping experience l oool
Illyasviel
218 posts
Joined July 2013
Illyasviel
How about we stop talking about if someone capable of judging a map or not and instead focus on doing constructive criticism? I'd recommend Monstrata to ask for a cleaning session on this thread because a lot of the stuff being said here is really useless and only brings up drama and flame.
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,077 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
hey guys remember when xexxar tried to get me striked 3 different times for after rain
who thinks he'll do it again here raise your hand!!!
Kynan
497 posts
Joined September 2011
Kynan

filsdelmao wrote:

Kisses wrote:

If the patterns are similar to trash maps then does that make this a trash map? :thinking:
You're right. That is indeed contradictory.
How did I expect someone with a nickname like that to get my point, I wonder...
mindmaster107
735 posts
Joined August 2016
mindmaster107
This map was created to reflect the music. Whether it does that or not, I can't say since i'm not a very good mapper.

What I can add to this conversation is that rankable, doesn't mean playable. If the map reflects the song well, in a way which doesn't break the ranking criteria, it technically deserves to be ranked.
I personally don't want this ranked, since to the player majority, this is the flagship for allowing a "messy" style of mapping to take over. This is probably scare mongering, since all of monstrata's old controversial mapsets have not inspired a wash of quality drop in ranked.
However it's the message which matters here. Objectively it should be ok to rank with no repercussions, but it sends the message to potential mappers "this is ok", even if this map used it's ugliness effectively.

This is my opinion to this whole thing.


I do enjoy eating popcorn on my ledge here.
QTS
25 posts
Joined September 2013
QTS
Edit: Writing on mobile is hard lmao.
Last edited by QTS , edited 3 times in total.
body
body

fieryrage wrote:

bro ur like 100k and ur judging a map that's 8.5 stars with no mapping experience l oool
whoa duder that is rude. you okay there buddy?
QTS
25 posts
Joined September 2013
QTS

Kynan wrote:

filsdelmao wrote:

You're right. That is indeed contradictory.
How did I expect someone with a nickname like that to get my point, I wonder...
You were contradicting yourself in the statement of yours and instead of clearing it up you decide to insult me and my name. Tough guy. But since you seem so concerned about your so called "point", go ahead and explain it in further context as to why this song has a better flow than any of those "PP farm maps" that you... didn't refer to?

Thanks in advance Kynan.
mindmaster107
735 posts
Joined August 2016
mindmaster107
A mapping conversation with players doesn't work out, since they value different things.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,947 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
Last warning. If you have nothing constructive or relevant to contribute to this discussion, post nothing, or risk a very hefty silence and possible restriction.

We've removed well over fifty posts from this thread at this point.
Kynan
497 posts
Joined September 2011
Kynan

filsdelmao wrote:

You were contradicting yourself in the statement of yours and instead of clearing it up you decide to insult me and my name. Tough guy. But since you seem so concerned about your so called "point", go ahead and explain it in further context as to why this song has a better flow than any of those "PP farm maps" that you... didn't refer to?

Thanks in advance Kynan.
My point is extremely simple to get though : the jumps aren't any more complicated than the ones you see getting ranked every fucking day. They are just harder to hit because they are wider. End of my point. Got it now ?
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,077 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori

it doesnt apply for quali right
Linada
995 posts
Joined November 2014
Linada
It HaPpEnEd oo
Mint
1,611 posts
Joined February 2013
Mint
finally
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,536 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly
OH BOY
Realazy
Elite Mapper
1,004 posts
Joined June 2011
Realazy
white discord RRREEEEEEEEEEE
Akitoshi
2,687 posts
Joined August 2014
Akitoshi
winny upload stoppddddddddddddddd
Ancelysia
490 posts
Joined September 2015
Ancelysia
WAIT WHAT
Logic Agent
483 posts
Joined April 2015
Logic Agent
lets do this thingy
Depths
681 posts
Joined January 2014
Depths
oh boy /popcorn
Ideal
Nomination Assessment Team
634 posts
Joined January 2014
Ideal
gather around for this hell of a trip to dramaland
Side
1,127 posts
Joined October 2013
Side
winny status: stopped
squirrelpascals
1,002 posts
Joined March 2015
squirrelpascals
The person who qualified uses light-themed discord, i demand an immediate dq

/s
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,077 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
that was actually hobbes screenshot not me, i'm respectable...
Linada
995 posts
Joined November 2014
Linada

squirrelpascals wrote:

The person who qualified uses light-themed discord, i demand an immediate dq

/s
schoolboy
571 posts
Joined July 2016
schoolboy
best of 20167
kbd
53 posts
Joined May 2014
kbd
holy, we did it boiz?
Ideal
Nomination Assessment Team
634 posts
Joined January 2014
Ideal
light theme discord should be punishable by death
Kalibe
2,068 posts
Joined October 2013
Kalibe
here we go
fieryrage
Former osu! Champion: 2023
1,458 posts
Joined November 2013
fieryrage
this is actually fun now good job monstrata proud of u
Shunao
1,959 posts
Joined February 2016
Shunao
GOOO
jeanbernard8865
600 posts
Joined December 2014
jeanbernard8865
O BOI HERE COMES THE DRAMA

defiance
503 posts
Joined July 2015
defiance
congratz monstrata!!
Yohanes
1,285 posts
Joined February 2014
Yohanes
:)
jeanbernard8865
600 posts
Joined December 2014
jeanbernard8865
wait a sec isn't 01:31:862 (3) offscreen since that square is supposedly 4:3 play area
Tanomoshii Nekojou
503 posts
Joined November 2010
Tanomoshii Nekojou

Naotoshi wrote:


it doesnt apply for quali right
FINALLY!!! thank you Naotoshi !!! :D :D :D :D
Nowaie
1,021 posts
Joined December 2014
Nowaie

AyanokoRin wrote:

wait a sec isn't 01:31:862 (3) offscreen since that square is supposedly 4:3 play area


Not offscreen ^^, the square is supposed to resemble that and anything inside it is definitely inside the play area on 4:3 but the actual play area is bit bigger
Last edited by Nowaie , edited 1 time in total.
sdafsf
309 posts
Joined October 2013
sdafsf
lol
jeanbernard8865
600 posts
Joined December 2014
jeanbernard8865
oh alright my bad then, I had always assumed that it was strictly the same
MaridiuS
879 posts
Joined June 2014
MaridiuS
let's go monstrota, I was with the map on some parts of its existence, then against it, and now i'm supporting it again, gl.
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding
wait, did the rating reset because it was previously loved?
riktoi
711 posts
Joined September 2014
riktoi
grats
diponski
596 posts
Joined April 2013
diponski
gz lol
Linada
995 posts
Joined November 2014
Linada

Kisses wrote:

wait, did the rating reset because it was previously loved?
yeah lol it works like a qualified map, if it get DQ/unloved, it reset when requalified
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