I hope this bubble will stay...
How could you pop a bubble from the cutest GM...
Btw good luck for your set Monstroto!
How could you pop a bubble from the cutest GM...
Btw good luck for your set Monstroto!
show more
Hello Xexxar! Just thought I'd check in and toss a non circlejerk opinion into the mix.
I believe it's completely justified that the map is bubbled seeing the reasoning that the veto on it was poorly done with not much reasoning beyond "eh i dont like it/its not playable". Monstrata has made an attempt (and quite well done!) to explain virtually every note within the beatmap at this point. Rank does not effect how good a mapper you are and aren't (You're 3k, We get it. It doesn't exactly make your opinion any more valid than anyone else's.). Kurai has simply reinstated a bubble which imo shouldn't have been popped in the first place. If you think the map sucks, that's great! We're all entitled to our own opinions, heck, it's why the modding system exists., If you have sat and modded the map and had it responded to and it ended in a way you didn't like; that's really sad for you but unfortunately it is ultimately the mappers decisions how they make their map.
If you can find anything wrong with this map beyond "DAE NOT LIKE ALIEN?" point it out here. I'm sure the BNG would take the steps necessary to make Monstrata change anything that is fundamentally flawed, however, at this point in time; from the perspective of many, it seems the map is ready for a bubble and possibly the qualified section.
Please be civil in this thread (However difficult it may be for you :s), calling out Kurai because he's made a decision you do not like and feel breaks the rules is NOT the type of stuff that is honestly suitable in a thread being this heavily monitored. Passive aggressiveness against people is bad.
--
That bit of the comment done! Gratz on the bubble. I look forward to seeing the development of this map (good song :thumbsup:), your recent changes have made the map better in my opinion. Best of luck moving forward Monstrata!
No Xexxar, you have to understand those rules only apply when disqualifying The Empress or preventing Gone with the Blast from qualifying. Those maps clearly made the mistake of not being A-L-I-E-N and therefore don't deserve to be nominated to rank status (or trying that for 4 times now).
Weird.
Please explain to me then how this:
was allowed to happen. Apparently there is something that staff or QAT or some people can do. The question is if it's because of modding skill or if it's just having the QAT at your mercy.
I have no idea where you got your screenshot from.
My screenshot comes from here. t/470459/start=345
And even if we use yours - the defining modal here is "Do not", not "may". By that logic as long as nobody complained we wouldn't have had any problems ranking Bloodthirsty Nightmare/The Empress in the first place.
"May" refers to the idea of considering a nominator unable to judge a 8* map when they are 60k.
Which means that I am not necessarily deemed unable to judge a 8* map if I am 60k.
Anyway this conversation is irrelevent and is not contributing in any way in getting this ranked.
Nao bubbles map
Monstrata self pops for updates
I bubble map (I could have qualified but i figured rebubbling was the safer option given the maps controversy)
Kagetsu vetos my bubble
After discussion with Monstrata, Kagetsu rescinds his veto.
I rebubble map
Sonnyc vetos my bubble
Kurai bubbles map
Thanks in advance Kynan.
it doesnt apply for quali right
Not offscreen ^^, the square is supposed to resemble that and anything inside it is definitely inside the play area on 4:3 but the actual play area is bit bigger
I think you should be kicked from the BNG for your actions here.
show more
Kurai wrote:
Alo l'espace
I am fine with rebubbling the map as it is. The map is more than feasible for skilled players and there are enough people backing it, there is no reason to keep this thread going round in circles any longer, I'm getting tired of this standoff, you're not going to reach a consensus anyway. Enjoy the bubble!
I should not have to say this, but keep the discussion civilised. Any inappropriate comment will be removed and sanctions will be issued.
I wonder how many maps it will take before QAT actually enforces any rules on BNG members.Xexxar wrote:
Do you people not even read the BNG rules when you get added? Did you just assume you can nominate anything? You're 60k dude and a brand new BN, why do you think you can judge this?
I think you should be kicked from the BNG for your actions here.
Holy bible
Xexxar wrote:
Kurai wrote:
-snip for convenience and readability-I wonder how many maps it will take before QAT actually enforces any rules on BNG members.Xexxar wrote:
Do you people not even read the BNG rules when you get added? Did you just assume you can nominate anything? You're 60k dude and a brand new BN, why do you think you can judge this?
I think you should be kicked from the BNG for your actions here.
Hello Xexxar! Just thought I'd check in and toss a non circlejerk opinion into the mix.
I believe it's completely justified that the map is bubbled seeing the reasoning that the veto on it was poorly done with not much reasoning beyond "eh i dont like it/its not playable". Monstrata has made an attempt (and quite well done!) to explain virtually every note within the beatmap at this point. Rank does not effect how good a mapper you are and aren't (You're 3k, We get it. It doesn't exactly make your opinion any more valid than anyone else's.). Kurai has simply reinstated a bubble which imo shouldn't have been popped in the first place. If you think the map sucks, that's great! We're all entitled to our own opinions, heck, it's why the modding system exists., If you have sat and modded the map and had it responded to and it ended in a way you didn't like; that's really sad for you but unfortunately it is ultimately the mappers decisions how they make their map.
If you can find anything wrong with this map beyond "DAE NOT LIKE ALIEN?" point it out here. I'm sure the BNG would take the steps necessary to make Monstrata change anything that is fundamentally flawed, however, at this point in time; from the perspective of many, it seems the map is ready for a bubble and possibly the qualified section.
Please be civil in this thread (However difficult it may be for you :s), calling out Kurai because he's made a decision you do not like and feel breaks the rules is NOT the type of stuff that is honestly suitable in a thread being this heavily monitored. Passive aggressiveness against people is bad.
--
That bit of the comment done! Gratz on the bubble. I look forward to seeing the development of this map (good song :thumbsup:), your recent changes have made the map better in my opinion. Best of luck moving forward Monstrata!
Why are you telling me this? I'm simply expressing my opinion that Kurai's actions here are in violation of BNG rules and am wondering when something will be done about it. Kurai is not re-instilling a bubble, he is stating that he is qualified to judge and nominate this map because the previous bubble was veto'd (over subjective issues, which is allowed).
Thanks for the non-circlejerk opinion dude!
Thanks for the non-circlejerk opinion dude!
Xexxar wrote:
Why are you telling me this? I'm simply expressing my opinion that Kurai's actions here are in violation of BNG rules and am wondering when something will be done about it. Kurai is not re-instilling a bubble, he is stating that he is qualified to judge and nominate this map because the previous bubble was veto'd (over subjective issues, which is allowed).
Thanks for the non-circlejerk opinion dude!
No Xexxar, you have to understand those rules only apply when disqualifying The Empress or preventing Gone with the Blast from qualifying. Those maps clearly made the mistake of not being A-L-I-E-N and therefore don't deserve to be nominated to rank status (or trying that for 4 times now).
Topic Starter
Rank is quite irrelevant when you are proficient in modding and mapping. If I nominated 7-8 star maps no one would question me. And even if someone did, there's nothing the staff can do because they can't determine that I'm unable to judge these maps.
Monstrata wrote:
Rank is quite irrelevant when you are proficient in modding and mapping. If I nominated 7-8 star maps no one would question me. And even if someone did, there's nothing the staff can do because they can't determine that I'm unable to judge these maps.
Weird.
Please explain to me then how this:
was allowed to happen. Apparently there is something that staff or QAT or some people can do. The question is if it's because of modding skill or if it's just having the QAT at your mercy.
Yes but Monstrata you have much more experience as a nominator under 2017 mapping standards. The same cannot be said about Kurai.Monstrata wrote:
Rank is quite irrelevant when you are proficient in modding and mapping. If I nominated 7-8 star maps no one would question me. And even if someone did, there's nothing the staff can do because they can't determine that I'm unable to judge these maps.
How good you can judge a map isn't determined by the rank but amount of experience you have over the time. Someone which is around for five years does know more at some point than someone for two years although they have the same (skill) rank.
the fact kurai went inactive (and came back) doesn't mean he lost all of his mapping/modding abilities lol
there's a few cases of mappers who can map hard difficulties while not being able to play them so why that wouldn't be the same for modders?
not being able to play a map doesn't mean you can't judge it properly. you can be experimented with the editor more than the actual game itself.
there's a few cases of mappers who can map hard difficulties while not being able to play them so why that wouldn't be the same for modders?
not being able to play a map doesn't mean you can't judge it properly. you can be experimented with the editor more than the actual game itself.
If you have concerns about me being able to judge this map properly, I invite you to file a complaint to the QAT. This thread is not the place where you should be doing that as it is going to bring unwanted negativity to the debate once again.
Being able to play the map in its entirety is, I believe, not a factor to judge a map properly; it is obviously an asset but in no case a requirement. As long as I understand the logic behind the patterns, I believe I am more than qualified to nominate this beatmap. This is also why the modal "may" has been used in the BNG rule you keep telling everyone I broke. The use of this modal clearly means that being a skilled player is not only what it takes to be able to judge a map.
I don't understand you at all. I am trying to push this map forward, doing what no one else really wants to do because no one likes doing the dirty job, yet you still find something to complain about? You are slowing down the qualifying process of this map by doing that. If any action has to be taken for my doings, a QAT will contact me and I will be glad to explain to them why I deemed myself qualified to bubble this map (don't worry, the QAT are well aware that I bubbled it).
In conclusion: if you have any concern about this map being bubbled, I invite you to point out the issues proving it unworthy of receiving a bubble. Anything else is irrelevent to the topic.
Being able to play the map in its entirety is, I believe, not a factor to judge a map properly; it is obviously an asset but in no case a requirement. As long as I understand the logic behind the patterns, I believe I am more than qualified to nominate this beatmap. This is also why the modal "may" has been used in the BNG rule you keep telling everyone I broke. The use of this modal clearly means that being a skilled player is not only what it takes to be able to judge a map.
I don't understand you at all. I am trying to push this map forward, doing what no one else really wants to do because no one likes doing the dirty job, yet you still find something to complain about? You are slowing down the qualifying process of this map by doing that. If any action has to be taken for my doings, a QAT will contact me and I will be glad to explain to them why I deemed myself qualified to bubble this map (don't worry, the QAT are well aware that I bubbled it).
In conclusion: if you have any concern about this map being bubbled, I invite you to point out the issues proving it unworthy of receiving a bubble. Anything else is irrelevent to the topic.
almost there 
Edit: This map has been tested and modded a lot, so I don't think kurai's icon here is wrong, even if he can't judge the map properly, there are 67 pages of feedback...
Edit: This map has been tested and modded a lot, so I don't think kurai's icon here is wrong, even if he can't judge the map properly, there are 67 pages of feedback...
nat-su fastNatsu wrote:
almost there
Actually, as you can see in the screenshot above, the modal is must not/are not allowed. It's not a guideline apparently.Kurai wrote:
As long as I understand the logic behind the patterns, I believe I am more than qualified to nominate this beatmap. This is also why the modal "may" has been used in the BNG rule you keep telling everyone I broke.
Yuutai wrote:
Actually, as you can see in the screenshot above, the modal is must not/are not allowed. It's not a guideline apparently.Kurai wrote:
As long as I understand the logic behind the patterns, I believe I am more than qualified to nominate this beatmap. This is also why the modal "may" has been used in the BNG rule you keep telling everyone I broke.
I have no idea where you got your screenshot from.
Kurai wrote:
I have no idea where you got your screenshot from.
My screenshot comes from here. t/470459/start=345
And even if we use yours - the defining modal here is "Do not", not "may". By that logic as long as nobody complained we wouldn't have had any problems ranking Bloodthirsty Nightmare/The Empress in the first place.
"Do not" refers to nominating a map when you are unable to judge it.Yuutai wrote:
Kurai wrote:
I have no idea where you got your screenshot from.
My screenshot comes from here. t/470459/start=345
And even if we use yours - the defining modal here is "Do not", not "may". By that logic as long as nobody complained we wouldn't have had any problems ranking Bloodthirsty Nightmare/The Empress in the first place.
"May" refers to the idea of considering a nominator unable to judge a 8* map when they are 60k.
Which means that I am not necessarily deemed unable to judge a 8* map if I am 60k.
Anyway this conversation is irrelevent and is not contributing in any way in getting this ranked.
How many BNs have veto'd this map so far? Just an innocent question
After loved -->Kisses wrote:
How many BNs have veto'd this map so far? Just an innocent question
Nao bubbles map
Monstrata self pops for updates
I bubble map (I could have qualified but i figured rebubbling was the safer option given the maps controversy)
Kagetsu vetos my bubble
After discussion with Monstrata, Kagetsu rescinds his veto.
I rebubble map
Sonnyc vetos my bubble
Kurai bubbles map
y is a single map triggering so many ppl
its just a circle clicking game lmao
its just a circle clicking game lmao
Please do not DQ this, let this map be ranked already so it will force some ways to let other creative maps get ranked.
Like really, for all god and evil souls - just get some common sense and stop being drama queens (and kings).
Good luck Monstrata!
/me going back to lurk around
Like really, for all god and evil souls - just get some common sense and stop being drama queens (and kings).
For next DQ, If someone point out "I don't like this object, please elaborate", I shall find explanation in this topic and link it to prove how artificial and hostile this DQ are now. Mark my words!
Good luck Monstrata!
/me going back to lurk around
agreeSnowNiNo_ wrote:
y is a single map triggering so many ppl
its just a circle clicking game lmao
Tbh I respect the fact that Monstrata has taken a different approach to getting this map ranked. Back in the days, it seemed like you were just kind of the dick you wanted to be, which goes something along the lines of "Since I am Monstrata I can rank whatever I want" kind of mentality. The reason why I really got irritated by your behaviour in the past was due to the fact that you wanted to rank something for the point of "showing how much potential power you could have" and also the fact that you wanted to make the highest * map this specific map. I guess I didn't have too great of an issue with the fact that it would've been the highest * rank but your approach to it was just garbage.
Personally, I still don't think it should be ranked, but yeah. I don't know what it is that makes me feel so against the map, maybe the "ugliness" in itself or just the fact that it has a bunch of RNG jumps that no one besides AUTO will hit. Just rambling.
Personally, I still don't think it should be ranked, but yeah. I don't know what it is that makes me feel so against the map, maybe the "ugliness" in itself or just the fact that it has a bunch of RNG jumps that no one besides AUTO will hit. Just rambling.
The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week, they're just wider. If anything they flow even better than those "perfectly fine" maps.filsdelmao wrote:
Personally, I still don't think it should be ranked, but yeah. I don't know what it is that makes me feel so against the map, maybe the "ugliness" in itself or just the fact that it has a bunch of RNG jumps that no one besides AUTO will hit. Just rambling.
Maybe the flow is "fine" if that is what you truly consider to be fine. I'd love to see you attempt to hit those, and if you do, kudos to you.Kynan wrote:
The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week, they're just wider. If anything they flow even better than those "perfectly fine" maps.filsdelmao wrote:
Personally, I still don't think it should be ranked, but yeah. I don't know what it is that makes me feel so against the map, maybe the "ugliness" in itself or just the fact that it has a bunch of RNG jumps that no one besides AUTO will hit. Just rambling.
If the patterns are similar to trash maps then does that make this a trash map? :thinking:Kynan wrote:
The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week
You're right. That is indeed contradictory.Kisses wrote:
If the patterns are similar to trash maps then does that make this a trash map? :thinking:Kynan wrote:
The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week
body
bro ur like 100k and ur judging a map that's 8.5 stars with no mapping experience l ooolbody wrote:
Huh, that word is not what I would describe this map as at all. If this is creative then I'm actually the coolest person on Earth[Taiga] wrote:
creative
How about we stop talking about if someone capable of judging a map or not and instead focus on doing constructive criticism? I'd recommend Monstrata to ask for a cleaning session on this thread because a lot of the stuff being said here is really useless and only brings up drama and flame.
hey guys remember when xexxar tried to get me striked 3 different times for after rain
who thinks he'll do it again here raise your hand!!!
who thinks he'll do it again here raise your hand!!!
How did I expect someone with a nickname like that to get my point, I wonder...filsdelmao wrote:
You're right. That is indeed contradictory.Kisses wrote:
If the patterns are similar to trash maps then does that make this a trash map? :thinking:
This map was created to reflect the music. Whether it does that or not, I can't say since i'm not a very good mapper.
What I can add to this conversation is that rankable, doesn't mean playable. If the map reflects the song well, in a way which doesn't break the ranking criteria, it technically deserves to be ranked.
I personally don't want this ranked, since to the player majority, this is the flagship for allowing a "messy" style of mapping to take over. This is probably scare mongering, since all of monstrata's old controversial mapsets have not inspired a wash of quality drop in ranked.
However it's the message which matters here. Objectively it should be ok to rank with no repercussions, but it sends the message to potential mappers "this is ok", even if this map used it's ugliness effectively.
This is my opinion to this whole thing.
What I can add to this conversation is that rankable, doesn't mean playable. If the map reflects the song well, in a way which doesn't break the ranking criteria, it technically deserves to be ranked.
I personally don't want this ranked, since to the player majority, this is the flagship for allowing a "messy" style of mapping to take over. This is probably scare mongering, since all of monstrata's old controversial mapsets have not inspired a wash of quality drop in ranked.
However it's the message which matters here. Objectively it should be ok to rank with no repercussions, but it sends the message to potential mappers "this is ok", even if this map used it's ugliness effectively.
This is my opinion to this whole thing.
body
You were contradicting yourself in the statement of yours and instead of clearing it up you decide to insult me and my name. Tough guy. But since you seem so concerned about your so called "point", go ahead and explain it in further context as to why this song has a better flow than any of those "PP farm maps" that you... didn't refer to?Kynan wrote:
How did I expect someone with a nickname like that to get my point, I wonder...filsdelmao wrote:
You're right. That is indeed contradictory.
Thanks in advance Kynan.
A mapping conversation with players doesn't work out, since they value different things.
Last warning. If you have nothing constructive or relevant to contribute to this discussion, post nothing, or risk a very hefty silence and possible restriction.
We've removed well over fifty posts from this thread at this point.
We've removed well over fifty posts from this thread at this point.
My point is extremely simple to get though : the jumps aren't any more complicated than the ones you see getting ranked every fucking day. They are just harder to hit because they are wider. End of my point. Got it now ?filsdelmao wrote:
You were contradicting yourself in the statement of yours and instead of clearing it up you decide to insult me and my name. Tough guy. But since you seem so concerned about your so called "point", go ahead and explain it in further context as to why this song has a better flow than any of those "PP farm maps" that you... didn't refer to?
Thanks in advance Kynan.
it doesnt apply for quali right
finally
OH BOY
white discord RRREEEEEEEEEEE
winny upload stoppddddddddddddddd
lets do this thingy
gather around for this hell of a trip to dramaland
winny status: stopped
The person who qualified uses light-themed discord, i demand an immediate dq
/s
/s
that was actually hobbes screenshot not me, i'm respectable...
squirrelpascals wrote:
The person who qualified uses light-themed discord, i demand an immediate dq/s
light theme discord should be punishable by death
here we go
this is actually fun now good job monstrata proud of u
GOOO
O BOI HERE COMES THE DRAMA
wait a sec isn't 01:31:862 (3) offscreen since that square is supposedly 4:3 play area 
FINALLY!!! thank you Naotoshi !!!Naotoshi wrote:
it doesnt apply for quali right
AyanokoRin wrote:
wait a sec isn't 01:31:862 (3) offscreen since that square is supposedly 4:3 play area
Not offscreen ^^, the square is supposed to resemble that and anything inside it is definitely inside the play area on 4:3 but the actual play area is bit bigger
oh alright my bad then, I had always assumed that it was strictly the same
let's go monstrota, I was with the map on some parts of its existence, then against it, and now i'm supporting it again, gl.
wait, did the rating reset because it was previously loved?
yeah lol it works like a qualified map, if it get DQ/unloved, it reset when requalifiedKisses wrote:
wait, did the rating reset because it was previously loved?
modded on irc btw
Finally yay!
Tbh, so many people say drama incoming
looks at the last few pages full of gratz
Gratz btw
looks at the last few pages full of gratz
Gratz btw
71 pages holy
(Predict one dq but then again qualify after that ranked)
Gratz btw
(Predict one dq but then again qualify after that ranked)
Gratz btw
The thing that bother me the most in this thread is
THAT WHITE DISCORD NAOTOSHI HOW YOU DARE?
THAT WHITE DISCORD NAOTOSHI HOW YOU DARE?
There is an accurate prozd video for everything, this is the one for alienYuii- wrote:
This video describes the whole thread btw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJX4ytfqw6k
drama gets insta-deleted FeelsBadMan_DT3 wrote:
Tbh, so many people say drama incoming
looks at the last few pages full of gratz
Gratz btw
I am simply amazed with Monstrata's determination. I don't know how standard ranking criteria works, but just seeing Monstrata's replies on everyone's suggestions, problems etc...
This just deserves to be ranked.
This just deserves to be ranked.
holy fuck congrats!!
finally it happens
Guys, please do not blame Naotoshi for the white discord. That was my screenshot of Naotoshi's text. Please redirect all of your hatred to me.
p.s. white discord for life LUL
grats monstrata!
p.s. white discord for life LUL
grats monstrata!
BURNHobbes2 wrote:
Guys, please do not blame Naotoshi for the white discord. That was my screenshot of Naotoshi's text. Please redirect all of your hatred to me.
p.s. white discord for life LUL
grats monstrata!
Topic Starter
Do you think any mapper will try the techniques and ideas I've used on this map if they know it'll 1. receive multiple bubble pops and outrage from the community, and 2. result in hundreds of pages of discussion and mapping analysis? If anything, this shows how much trouble mappers need to go through to get anything non-standard and creative ranked.mindmaster107 wrote:
This map was created to reflect the music. Whether it does that or not, I can't say since i'm not a very good mapper.
What I can add to this conversation is that rankable, doesn't mean playable. If the map reflects the song well, in a way which doesn't break the ranking criteria, it technically deserves to be ranked.
I personally don't want this ranked, since to the player majority, this is the flagship for allowing a "messy" style of mapping to take over. This is probably scare mongering, since all of monstrata's old controversial mapsets have not inspired a wash of quality drop in ranked.
However it's the message which matters here. Objectively it should be ok to rank with no repercussions, but it sends the message to potential mappers "this is ok", even if this map used it's ugliness effectively.
This is my opinion to this whole thing.
gratz m8
posting so i also posted in that thread once
i mean gz ;D
i mean gz ;D
Do you people not even read the BNG rules when you get added? Did you just assume you can make discord any color you want? You're 15k dude and a brand new BN, why do you think you can do this?Hobbes2 wrote:
Guys, please do not blame Naotoshi for the white discord. That was my screenshot of Naotoshi's text. Please redirect all of your hatred to me.
p.s. white discord for life LUL
grats monstrata!
I think you should be kicked from the BNG for your actions here.
no i find it strange that dark theme users look down on people that use the default white theme
it's default for a reason
most things have a white background by default
it's you that went out of your way to change the setting
it's default for a reason
most things have a white background by default
it's you that went out of your way to change the setting
Finally, a discussion that matters
pR3TtY uG1Y
Nice one momstrata
in all seriousness, this map will make more harder maps with weird aesthetics rankable once it's ranked
congrats!!!!!!
congrats!!!!!!
Thanks Mr. Monstrata for that :>AncuL wrote:
in all seriousness, this map will make more harder maps with weird aesthetics rankable once it's ranked
congrats!!!!!!