The O design doesn't make more sense to me. I prefer my current one.
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Maybe we could stop this pointless drama and move on, rank this already and forget?
Are you guys gonna continue to deny concepts which breaks "mapping purely for pp meta"?
As I said, right now where over 90% maps are just copy paste without actual quality - If map is right in term of ranking criteria and follow guidelines, in this case, Monstrata map is right in both, it is rankable.
At least Monstrata have idea for some creativity which goes out of this pointless mapping meta.
I would say - with all this complains, maybe you should start paying money to Monstrata for all this fixes which goes out of his initial concept.
Reviewing from your replies, I'm pretty sure that you've got the point what I'm trying to say regarding the structures. Just that it seems you can't really understand "why" they are issues. Let me elaborate in that respect.
Beatmap is a secondary creation that reflects a particular song via placements, movements, visual concepts, rhythmic choices and several other mapping aspects. And reflecting a song as a map does not mean just simply giving an overall feeling as song goes by. It's about reflecting the musical aspects inside the song because as I've said, beatmap is a secondary creation based on the song. A map does not exist its own without a music. Reflecting the song may be done in a different extent as what music aspect people prioritize, yet the essence remains the same. Objects that are combined with the mapping aspects I've mentioned before form a logic when corresponding with the song. That logic and correspondence show how the map is reflecting the song.
I've considered the continuous variation of patterns to be less corresponding to this particular song which made me feel the map lacking in structures. That's why I've asked for extra explanations to figure out if there were any backing logics that I've failed to detect. Some explanations were satisfactory, but for most points I've made, the common answer I've got is that you can't explain because there is no way to. Maybe it is hard to tell the reason for initial mapping concepts as it involve one's mapping style. But once a logic presents, it is possible to explain stuffs that are under those logics. Reasons for the flows, aesthetics, placements etc based on the mapping logic you wanted to express the structure of music-beatmap correlation.
You already know yourself that this kind of stuff presents in your previous maps. Even the ones I've nominated, you say. Those issue presented yet deserved my nomination because each map had a much bigger value that compensates the weak structure in my opinion. (Won't be mentioning those individually since I don't think this is the appropriate spot for that.) If I decided to decline a nomination for those maps despite the greater values I've felt, there would be literally 0 beatmaps to nominate in this game for me.
If you think I'm just nitpicking over extremely minor issues that you didn't even considered as an issue, then I've got to say congratulations. It is a mapping perspective that you never seriously considered while mapping until now as a mapper, yet something extremely essential in the very grounds of mapping which you can consider to improve further as a mapper.
You are really an expert in designing objects in technical ways. I can say your skills are top class as far as I've saw from this game. But the ones I'm mentioning here are the weakness of your mappings. It's not only at this map 'alien' as you've well explained yourself. You may disagree personally with my decision on being too harsh, but please understand that my opinion did not pop out of 0 basis.
I hope I've got nothing more to add for now.
In any case you have provided no time stamps, no examples of how to remedy the issue you proposed, nor have you replied to my comments so I cannot further this discussion. I'm not here to discuss mapping philosophies with you, this is not the thread for it. If you'd like to discuss my map, and reply to the things i mentioned above (in reference to your initial mod) then we can maybe go somewhere.
I have no intention of trying this "mapping aspect" you mentioned anyways because I think respecting consistency, just like respecting emphasis completely will just result in banal maps that no one will remember or play after 3 days
. You are constructing maps for a game, not for some educational purpose or institutional purpose. Keep things fun and make unique changes to the map. If you respect emphasis on every single jump sequence you make, they will not be interesting in the slightest and will just feel like any other pp farm map. If that is your objective, then that's fine, but please don't impose this onto maps that are clearly not trying to be your typical pp farm anime style maps xP.
This discussion will go no where until you reply to what I've actually mentioned in my reply. Again, I'll stress that it's the map we are discussing, not your mapping philosophy and why you think I should change mine. My philosophy clearly has found more success.
Hello Xexxar! Just thought I'd check in and toss a non circlejerk opinion into the mix.
I believe it's completely justified that the map is bubbled seeing the reasoning that the veto on it was poorly done with not much reasoning beyond "eh i dont like it/its not playable". Monstrata has made an attempt (and quite well done!) to explain virtually every note within the beatmap at this point. Rank does not effect how good a mapper you are and aren't (You're 3k, We get it. It doesn't exactly make your opinion any more valid than anyone else's.). Kurai has simply reinstated a bubble which imo shouldn't have been popped in the first place. If you think the map sucks, that's great! We're all entitled to our own opinions, heck, it's why the modding system exists., If you have sat and modded the map and had it responded to and it ended in a way you didn't like; that's really sad for you but unfortunately it is ultimately the mappers decisions how they make their map.
If you can find anything wrong with this map beyond "DAE NOT LIKE ALIEN?" point it out here. I'm sure the BNG would take the steps necessary to make Monstrata change anything that is fundamentally flawed, however, at this point in time; from the perspective of many, it seems the map is ready for a bubble and possibly the qualified section.
Please be civil in this thread (However difficult it may be for you :s), calling out Kurai because he's made a decision you do not like and feel breaks the rules is NOT the type of stuff that is honestly suitable in a thread being this heavily monitored. Passive aggressiveness against people is bad.
--
That bit of the comment done! Gratz on the bubble. I look forward to seeing the development of this map (good song :thumbsup:), your recent changes have made the map better in my opinion. Best of luck moving forward Monstrata!
No Xexxar, you have to understand those rules only apply when disqualifying The Empress or preventing Gone with the Blast from qualifying. Those maps clearly made the mistake of not being A-L-I-E-N and therefore don't deserve to be nominated to rank status (or trying that for 4 times now).
Weird.
Please explain to me then how this:
was allowed to happen. Apparently there is something that staff or QAT or some people can do. The question is if it's because of modding skill or if it's just having the QAT at your mercy.
I have no idea where you got your screenshot from.
My screenshot comes from here. t/470459/start=345
And even if we use yours - the defining modal here is "Do not", not "may". By that logic as long as nobody complained we wouldn't have had any problems ranking Bloodthirsty Nightmare/The Empress in the first place.
"May" refers to the idea of considering a nominator unable to judge a 8* map when they are 60k.
Which means that I am not necessarily deemed unable to judge a 8* map if I am 60k.
Anyway this conversation is irrelevent and is not contributing in any way in getting this ranked.
Nao bubbles map
Monstrata self pops for updates
I bubble map (I could have qualified but i figured rebubbling was the safer option given the maps controversy)
Kagetsu vetos my bubble
After discussion with Monstrata, Kagetsu rescinds his veto.
I rebubble map
Sonnyc vetos my bubble
Kurai bubbles map
Thanks in advance Kynan.
it doesnt apply for quali right
Not offscreen ^^, the square is supposed to resemble that and anything inside it is definitely inside the play area on 4:3 but the actual play area is bit bigger
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Topic Starter
I.. actually agree with that... god I can't belive myself
uhh, an O isn't really an oval, your 'O' is kinda like a 0 / zero
the "O" is not an "O" 👀
I don't really know what's going on but I think these mods are ruining the map... The map fit the song better before and when it was loved. Now it seems that nitpicking preventing it from being ranked is reducing quality by forcing changes. Monstrata I hope you get this ranked but I don't think with these "mods" it can. I really used to enjoy the map though. Have what little kudosu I have to offer and stay strong (۶•̀ᴗ•́)۶
Liking the changes in the beginning.
Please DQ if not fixed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ /jkezek wrote:
the "O" is not an "O" 👀
Maybe we could stop this pointless drama and move on, rank this already and forget?
Are you guys gonna continue to deny concepts which breaks "mapping purely for pp meta"?
As I said, right now where over 90% maps are just copy paste without actual quality - If map is right in term of ranking criteria and follow guidelines, in this case, Monstrata map is right in both, it is rankable.
At least Monstrata have idea for some creativity which goes out of this pointless mapping meta.
I would say - with all this complains, maybe you should start paying money to Monstrata for all this fixes which goes out of his initial concept.
I realized map has no kiais, there's nothing wrong with it but I think you could add some where the most intense screaming starts at 01:34:630 - 01:41:058 - and 02:26:362 - 02:33:170 -
you could use those flashes and make a extended one here: 02:36:797 - 02:50:353 -
you could use those flashes and make a extended one here: 02:36:797 - 02:50:353 -
Topic Starter
Kiai's cause a section of music to stand out over the other. I don't want any part of this map to stand out over the other, I think they are uniquely different and the metal section isn't "more musically important" than the pop section which is why there is no Kiai to give visual emphasis.MrMenda wrote:
I realized map has no kiais, there's nothing wrong with it but I think you could add some where the most intense screaming starts at 01:34:630 - 01:41:058 - and 02:26:362 - 02:33:170 -
you could use those flashes and make a extended one here: 02:36:797 - 02:50:353 -
Are you going to say stuff like : 03:26:728 (4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - require some musical difference to support flow changes too?My answer is a yes, or at least you should be able to explain that difference based on the mapping logics you've applied.
Reviewing from your replies, I'm pretty sure that you've got the point what I'm trying to say regarding the structures. Just that it seems you can't really understand "why" they are issues. Let me elaborate in that respect.
Beatmap is a secondary creation that reflects a particular song via placements, movements, visual concepts, rhythmic choices and several other mapping aspects. And reflecting a song as a map does not mean just simply giving an overall feeling as song goes by. It's about reflecting the musical aspects inside the song because as I've said, beatmap is a secondary creation based on the song. A map does not exist its own without a music. Reflecting the song may be done in a different extent as what music aspect people prioritize, yet the essence remains the same. Objects that are combined with the mapping aspects I've mentioned before form a logic when corresponding with the song. That logic and correspondence show how the map is reflecting the song.
I've considered the continuous variation of patterns to be less corresponding to this particular song which made me feel the map lacking in structures. That's why I've asked for extra explanations to figure out if there were any backing logics that I've failed to detect. Some explanations were satisfactory, but for most points I've made, the common answer I've got is that you can't explain because there is no way to. Maybe it is hard to tell the reason for initial mapping concepts as it involve one's mapping style. But once a logic presents, it is possible to explain stuffs that are under those logics. Reasons for the flows, aesthetics, placements etc based on the mapping logic you wanted to express the structure of music-beatmap correlation.
You already know yourself that this kind of stuff presents in your previous maps. Even the ones I've nominated, you say. Those issue presented yet deserved my nomination because each map had a much bigger value that compensates the weak structure in my opinion. (Won't be mentioning those individually since I don't think this is the appropriate spot for that.) If I decided to decline a nomination for those maps despite the greater values I've felt, there would be literally 0 beatmaps to nominate in this game for me.
If you think I'm just nitpicking over extremely minor issues that you didn't even considered as an issue, then I've got to say congratulations. It is a mapping perspective that you never seriously considered while mapping until now as a mapper, yet something extremely essential in the very grounds of mapping which you can consider to improve further as a mapper.
You are really an expert in designing objects in technical ways. I can say your skills are top class as far as I've saw from this game. But the ones I'm mentioning here are the weakness of your mappings. It's not only at this map 'alien' as you've well explained yourself. You may disagree personally with my decision on being too harsh, but please understand that my opinion did not pop out of 0 basis.
I hope I've got nothing more to add for now.
Topic Starter
I think this is the error of the old mapping style. It cared too much about unnecessary consistencies, for example making sure flows were the same when comparing timestamps from literally 2 minutes apart (as you did earlier with those jumps). These are consistencies born from modders, not from players. A player will not look at a specific flow used 2 minutes ago and ask why it was used again here 2 minutes later, or why it wasn't. It's just too unnecessarily analytical and is born from a modders need to find consistencies or other issues that would not affect the map's enjoyability in the slightest.Sonnyc wrote:
Are you going to say stuff like : 03:26:728 (4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - require some musical difference to support flow changes too?My answer is a yes, or at least you should be able to explain that difference based on the mapping logics you've applied.
Reviewing from your replies, I'm pretty sure that you've got the point what I'm trying to say regarding the structures. Just that it seems you can't really understand "why" they are issues. Let me elaborate in that respect.
Beatmap is a secondary creation that reflects a particular song via placements, movements, visual concepts, rhythmic choices and several other mapping aspects. And reflecting a song as a map does not mean just simply giving an overall feeling as song goes by. It's about reflecting the musical aspects inside the song because as I've said, beatmap is a secondary creation based on the song. A map does not exist its own without a music. Reflecting the song may be done in a different extent as what music aspect people prioritize, yet the essence remains the same. Objects that are combined with the mapping aspects I've mentioned before form a logic when corresponding with the song. That logic and correspondence show how the map is reflecting the song.
I've considered the continuous variation of patterns to be less corresponding to this particular song which made me feel the map lacking in structures. That's why I've asked for extra explanations to figure out if there were any backing logics that I've failed to detect. Some explanations were satisfactory, but for most points I've made, the common answer I've got is that you can't explain because there is no way to. Maybe it is hard to tell the reason for initial mapping concepts as it involve one's mapping style. But once a logic presents, it is possible to explain stuffs that are under those logics. Reasons for the flows, aesthetics, placements etc based on the mapping logic you wanted to express the structure of music-beatmap correlation.
You already know yourself that this kind of stuff presents in your previous maps. Even the ones I've nominated, you say. Those issue presented yet deserved my nomination because each map had a much bigger value that compensates the weak structure in my opinion. If I decided to decline a nomination for those maps despite the greater values I've felt, there would be literally 0 beatmaps to nominate in this game for me.
If you think I'm just nitpicking over extremely minor issues that you didn't even considered as an issue, then I've got to say congratulations. It is a mapping perspective that you never seriously considered while mapping until now as a mapper, yet something extremely essential in the very grounds of mapping which you can consider to improve further as a mapper.
You are really an expert in designing objects in technical ways. I can say your skills are top class as far as I've saw from this game. But the ones I'm mentioning here are the weakness of your mappings. It's not only at this map 'alien' as you've well explained yourself. You may disagree personally with my decision on being too harsh, but please understand that my opinion did not pop out of 0 basis.
I hope I've got nothing more to add for now.
In any case you have provided no time stamps, no examples of how to remedy the issue you proposed, nor have you replied to my comments so I cannot further this discussion. I'm not here to discuss mapping philosophies with you, this is not the thread for it. If you'd like to discuss my map, and reply to the things i mentioned above (in reference to your initial mod) then we can maybe go somewhere.
I have no intention of trying this "mapping aspect" you mentioned anyways because I think respecting consistency, just like respecting emphasis completely will just result in banal maps that no one will remember or play after 3 days
. You are constructing maps for a game, not for some educational purpose or institutional purpose. Keep things fun and make unique changes to the map. If you respect emphasis on every single jump sequence you make, they will not be interesting in the slightest and will just feel like any other pp farm map. If that is your objective, then that's fine, but please don't impose this onto maps that are clearly not trying to be your typical pp farm anime style maps xP.This discussion will go no where until you reply to what I've actually mentioned in my reply. Again, I'll stress that it's the map we are discussing, not your mapping philosophy and why you think I should change mine. My philosophy clearly has found more success.
Topic Starter
Also, adding to that, if beatmaps only "reflected" the song, then maps like Can Do, Nandemo nai ya, Transform, would not have existed. Mapping isn't limited to just reflecting music. It is also about interpreting music, creating variance, and most importantly, introducing gameplay elements to the music. You map a song because you want to create a fun gameplay experience for the player. If your objective is to construct a map that embodies the song perfectly, good for you, but you've lost the game element of mapping. In any case, my decisions for flow changes, spacings, patterns, are not created because I think using a triangular pattern will emphasize the music better. They are born from my decision that using this specific movement will play well, or that switching movement will allow specific patterns to be more interesting to play. Your argument is that I am not following consistency fully. My argument is that there is no need to follow consistency fully. If you look at my map, I already do so for a good 80-90% of it.
You told me before, that you wished you could map something that people will remember you by. Perhaps you should take from my perspective instead and not just produce maps that reflect the song, but rather maps that make an otherwise boring song interesting or fun. If you reflect a boring and unmemorable song, your map will be equally boring and unmemorable because that's what you've reflected.
You told me before, that you wished you could map something that people will remember you by. Perhaps you should take from my perspective instead and not just produce maps that reflect the song, but rather maps that make an otherwise boring song interesting or fun. If you reflect a boring and unmemorable song, your map will be equally boring and unmemorable because that's what you've reflected.
It was a generic statement regarding this entire beatmap. Examples regarding the beatmap were questioned to get a better understanding of yours about this map at previous posts, and you gave me your response. Also examples are examples, nothing more than that. I'm not questioning specific patterns but the whole structure idea implemented in this map.
Also in where did I mentioned this map to become a generic pp map? Please avoid making statements based on assumptions. In case such misunderstanding happened because I haven't gave you a solution for the issues I've mentioned, I'd like to talk again about one of the examples that was addressed previously.
03:15:390 (1,2) - 03:19:409 (1,2) - 03:23:442 (1,2) - 03:17:398 (1,2) - 03:21:425 (1,2) - 03:25:478 (1,2) - When I was questioning these 1/2 sliders, you were frustrated rather you should be using linears for vocals, and curves for non-vocals. Actually that could be one solution, but maybe a dramatic example. It was the slider shape, the visual aspects that came up in your mind. However giving similarities in similar music elements and differences in different music elements can literally be done in any aspect. Flows could be one. Or also spacing concepts. 03:17:398 (1,2) this for example shares a same visual concept according to visual spacings, but when it comes to actual distance snapping, this one is having a close spacing while others are having a distant spacing. Maybe you can differentiate expressions by applying this kind of spacing ideas. Setting specific suggestions aside, the only generic suggestion I can give is cto classify your pattern usage based on the "song". It may sound as a generic boring uninteresting concept at glance, but it is because making a good map without such trait is difficult. Just that.
Lastly, it's quite hard to understand that you aren't using mapping aspects. Maybe there was some misunderstandings, but there are no maps without a flow, and no map without a visuality. (Ugly visuals are still a visual.) It was this what I was meaning.
I'm seeing this discussion going in nowhere of a productive direction than I expected since not much agreements are being made. If you got your other BN ready, I'm suggesting to end our discussion and get yourself pushing this set further with the following BN. However if you still think my veto is unjustified, I'll keep have to voice my opinion.
Also in where did I mentioned this map to become a generic pp map? Please avoid making statements based on assumptions. In case such misunderstanding happened because I haven't gave you a solution for the issues I've mentioned, I'd like to talk again about one of the examples that was addressed previously.
03:15:390 (1,2) - 03:19:409 (1,2) - 03:23:442 (1,2) - 03:17:398 (1,2) - 03:21:425 (1,2) - 03:25:478 (1,2) - When I was questioning these 1/2 sliders, you were frustrated rather you should be using linears for vocals, and curves for non-vocals. Actually that could be one solution, but maybe a dramatic example. It was the slider shape, the visual aspects that came up in your mind. However giving similarities in similar music elements and differences in different music elements can literally be done in any aspect. Flows could be one. Or also spacing concepts. 03:17:398 (1,2) this for example shares a same visual concept according to visual spacings, but when it comes to actual distance snapping, this one is having a close spacing while others are having a distant spacing. Maybe you can differentiate expressions by applying this kind of spacing ideas. Setting specific suggestions aside, the only generic suggestion I can give is cto classify your pattern usage based on the "song". It may sound as a generic boring uninteresting concept at glance, but it is because making a good map without such trait is difficult. Just that.
Lastly, it's quite hard to understand that you aren't using mapping aspects. Maybe there was some misunderstandings, but there are no maps without a flow, and no map without a visuality. (Ugly visuals are still a visual.) It was this what I was meaning.
I'm seeing this discussion going in nowhere of a productive direction than I expected since not much agreements are being made. If you got your other BN ready, I'm suggesting to end our discussion and get yourself pushing this set further with the following BN. However if you still think my veto is unjustified, I'll keep have to voice my opinion.
Topic Starter
It's unnecessary to create distinctions between vocal / nonvocal sliders. They are following the exact same rhythm, mapped to 1/2 sliders. Listen to the main melody, it's what I'm following. Rather, creating a distinction distracts from the map itself because i'm clearly not using any mapping aspects to highlight the vocals on the section over the instruments, so recommending that I map the instrumental section differently from the vocal only creates an unnecessary design rift in the map. You are trying to assign some sort of specific mapping aspect to vocals, and a different mapping aspect to instruments, but this ends up causing the map to feel disparate like there are two different elements that keep switching one to another. Consider it as a whole section of music, not a collection of two or three slider patterns strung together. Your proposal damages the cohesion of the map and unnecessarily attempts to distinguish musical sections from vocals when they should be mapped in the same way since they are both following the main melody.
Since there is nothing to add, we can proceed with the rebubble.
Since there is nothing to add, we can proceed with the rebubble.
Alo l'espace
I am fine with rebubbling the map as it is. The map is more than feasible for skilled players and there are enough people backing it, there is no reason to keep this thread going round in circles any longer, I'm getting tired of this standoff, you're not going to reach a consensus anyway. Enjoy the bubble!
I should not have to say this, but keep the discussion civilised. Any inappropriate comment will be removed and sanctions will be issued.
I am fine with rebubbling the map as it is. The map is more than feasible for skilled players and there are enough people backing it, there is no reason to keep this thread going round in circles any longer, I'm getting tired of this standoff, you're not going to reach a consensus anyway. Enjoy the bubble!
I should not have to say this, but keep the discussion civilised. Any inappropriate comment will be removed and sanctions will be issued.
Kurai wrote:
Alo l'espace
I am fine with rebubbling the map as it is. The map is more than feasible for skilled players and there are enough people backing it, there is no reason to keep this thread going round in circles any longer, I'm getting tired of this standoff, you're not going to reach a consensus anyway. Enjoy the bubble!
I should not have to say this, but keep the discussion civilised. Any inappropriate comment will be removed and sanctions will be issued.
I wonder how many maps it will take before QAT actually enforces any rules on BNG members.Xexxar wrote:
Do you people not even read the BNG rules when you get added? Did you just assume you can nominate anything? You're 60k dude and a brand new BN, why do you think you can judge this?
I think you should be kicked from the BNG for your actions here.
Holy bible
Xexxar wrote:
Kurai wrote:
-snip for convenience and readability-I wonder how many maps it will take before QAT actually enforces any rules on BNG members.Xexxar wrote:
Do you people not even read the BNG rules when you get added? Did you just assume you can nominate anything? You're 60k dude and a brand new BN, why do you think you can judge this?
I think you should be kicked from the BNG for your actions here.
Hello Xexxar! Just thought I'd check in and toss a non circlejerk opinion into the mix.
I believe it's completely justified that the map is bubbled seeing the reasoning that the veto on it was poorly done with not much reasoning beyond "eh i dont like it/its not playable". Monstrata has made an attempt (and quite well done!) to explain virtually every note within the beatmap at this point. Rank does not effect how good a mapper you are and aren't (You're 3k, We get it. It doesn't exactly make your opinion any more valid than anyone else's.). Kurai has simply reinstated a bubble which imo shouldn't have been popped in the first place. If you think the map sucks, that's great! We're all entitled to our own opinions, heck, it's why the modding system exists., If you have sat and modded the map and had it responded to and it ended in a way you didn't like; that's really sad for you but unfortunately it is ultimately the mappers decisions how they make their map.
If you can find anything wrong with this map beyond "DAE NOT LIKE ALIEN?" point it out here. I'm sure the BNG would take the steps necessary to make Monstrata change anything that is fundamentally flawed, however, at this point in time; from the perspective of many, it seems the map is ready for a bubble and possibly the qualified section.
Please be civil in this thread (However difficult it may be for you :s), calling out Kurai because he's made a decision you do not like and feel breaks the rules is NOT the type of stuff that is honestly suitable in a thread being this heavily monitored. Passive aggressiveness against people is bad.
--
That bit of the comment done! Gratz on the bubble. I look forward to seeing the development of this map (good song :thumbsup:), your recent changes have made the map better in my opinion. Best of luck moving forward Monstrata!
Why are you telling me this? I'm simply expressing my opinion that Kurai's actions here are in violation of BNG rules and am wondering when something will be done about it. Kurai is not re-instilling a bubble, he is stating that he is qualified to judge and nominate this map because the previous bubble was veto'd (over subjective issues, which is allowed).
Thanks for the non-circlejerk opinion dude!
Thanks for the non-circlejerk opinion dude!
Xexxar wrote:
Why are you telling me this? I'm simply expressing my opinion that Kurai's actions here are in violation of BNG rules and am wondering when something will be done about it. Kurai is not re-instilling a bubble, he is stating that he is qualified to judge and nominate this map because the previous bubble was veto'd (over subjective issues, which is allowed).
Thanks for the non-circlejerk opinion dude!
No Xexxar, you have to understand those rules only apply when disqualifying The Empress or preventing Gone with the Blast from qualifying. Those maps clearly made the mistake of not being A-L-I-E-N and therefore don't deserve to be nominated to rank status (or trying that for 4 times now).
Topic Starter
Rank is quite irrelevant when you are proficient in modding and mapping. If I nominated 7-8 star maps no one would question me. And even if someone did, there's nothing the staff can do because they can't determine that I'm unable to judge these maps.
Monstrata wrote:
Rank is quite irrelevant when you are proficient in modding and mapping. If I nominated 7-8 star maps no one would question me. And even if someone did, there's nothing the staff can do because they can't determine that I'm unable to judge these maps.
Weird.
Please explain to me then how this:
was allowed to happen. Apparently there is something that staff or QAT or some people can do. The question is if it's because of modding skill or if it's just having the QAT at your mercy.
Yes but Monstrata you have much more experience as a nominator under 2017 mapping standards. The same cannot be said about Kurai.Monstrata wrote:
Rank is quite irrelevant when you are proficient in modding and mapping. If I nominated 7-8 star maps no one would question me. And even if someone did, there's nothing the staff can do because they can't determine that I'm unable to judge these maps.
How good you can judge a map isn't determined by the rank but amount of experience you have over the time. Someone which is around for five years does know more at some point than someone for two years although they have the same (skill) rank.
the fact kurai went inactive (and came back) doesn't mean he lost all of his mapping/modding abilities lol
there's a few cases of mappers who can map hard difficulties while not being able to play them so why that wouldn't be the same for modders?
not being able to play a map doesn't mean you can't judge it properly. you can be experimented with the editor more than the actual game itself.
there's a few cases of mappers who can map hard difficulties while not being able to play them so why that wouldn't be the same for modders?
not being able to play a map doesn't mean you can't judge it properly. you can be experimented with the editor more than the actual game itself.
If you have concerns about me being able to judge this map properly, I invite you to file a complaint to the QAT. This thread is not the place where you should be doing that as it is going to bring unwanted negativity to the debate once again.
Being able to play the map in its entirety is, I believe, not a factor to judge a map properly; it is obviously an asset but in no case a requirement. As long as I understand the logic behind the patterns, I believe I am more than qualified to nominate this beatmap. This is also why the modal "may" has been used in the BNG rule you keep telling everyone I broke. The use of this modal clearly means that being a skilled player is not only what it takes to be able to judge a map.
I don't understand you at all. I am trying to push this map forward, doing what no one else really wants to do because no one likes doing the dirty job, yet you still find something to complain about? You are slowing down the qualifying process of this map by doing that. If any action has to be taken for my doings, a QAT will contact me and I will be glad to explain to them why I deemed myself qualified to bubble this map (don't worry, the QAT are well aware that I bubbled it).
In conclusion: if you have any concern about this map being bubbled, I invite you to point out the issues proving it unworthy of receiving a bubble. Anything else is irrelevent to the topic.
Being able to play the map in its entirety is, I believe, not a factor to judge a map properly; it is obviously an asset but in no case a requirement. As long as I understand the logic behind the patterns, I believe I am more than qualified to nominate this beatmap. This is also why the modal "may" has been used in the BNG rule you keep telling everyone I broke. The use of this modal clearly means that being a skilled player is not only what it takes to be able to judge a map.
I don't understand you at all. I am trying to push this map forward, doing what no one else really wants to do because no one likes doing the dirty job, yet you still find something to complain about? You are slowing down the qualifying process of this map by doing that. If any action has to be taken for my doings, a QAT will contact me and I will be glad to explain to them why I deemed myself qualified to bubble this map (don't worry, the QAT are well aware that I bubbled it).
In conclusion: if you have any concern about this map being bubbled, I invite you to point out the issues proving it unworthy of receiving a bubble. Anything else is irrelevent to the topic.
almost there
Edit: This map has been tested and modded a lot, so I don't think kurai's icon here is wrong, even if he can't judge the map properly, there are 67 pages of feedback...
Edit: This map has been tested and modded a lot, so I don't think kurai's icon here is wrong, even if he can't judge the map properly, there are 67 pages of feedback...
nat-su fastNatsu wrote:
almost there
Actually, as you can see in the screenshot above, the modal is must not/are not allowed. It's not a guideline apparently.Kurai wrote:
As long as I understand the logic behind the patterns, I believe I am more than qualified to nominate this beatmap. This is also why the modal "may" has been used in the BNG rule you keep telling everyone I broke.
Yuutai wrote:
Actually, as you can see in the screenshot above, the modal is must not/are not allowed. It's not a guideline apparently.Kurai wrote:
As long as I understand the logic behind the patterns, I believe I am more than qualified to nominate this beatmap. This is also why the modal "may" has been used in the BNG rule you keep telling everyone I broke.
I have no idea where you got your screenshot from.
Kurai wrote:
I have no idea where you got your screenshot from.
My screenshot comes from here. t/470459/start=345
And even if we use yours - the defining modal here is "Do not", not "may". By that logic as long as nobody complained we wouldn't have had any problems ranking Bloodthirsty Nightmare/The Empress in the first place.
"Do not" refers to nominating a map when you are unable to judge it.Yuutai wrote:
Kurai wrote:
I have no idea where you got your screenshot from.
My screenshot comes from here. t/470459/start=345
And even if we use yours - the defining modal here is "Do not", not "may". By that logic as long as nobody complained we wouldn't have had any problems ranking Bloodthirsty Nightmare/The Empress in the first place.
"May" refers to the idea of considering a nominator unable to judge a 8* map when they are 60k.
Which means that I am not necessarily deemed unable to judge a 8* map if I am 60k.
Anyway this conversation is irrelevent and is not contributing in any way in getting this ranked.
How many BNs have veto'd this map so far? Just an innocent question
After loved -->Kisses wrote:
How many BNs have veto'd this map so far? Just an innocent question
Nao bubbles map
Monstrata self pops for updates
I bubble map (I could have qualified but i figured rebubbling was the safer option given the maps controversy)
Kagetsu vetos my bubble
After discussion with Monstrata, Kagetsu rescinds his veto.
I rebubble map
Sonnyc vetos my bubble
Kurai bubbles map
y is a single map triggering so many ppl
its just a circle clicking game lmao
its just a circle clicking game lmao
Please do not DQ this, let this map be ranked already so it will force some ways to let other creative maps get ranked.
Like really, for all god and evil souls - just get some common sense and stop being drama queens (and kings).
Good luck Monstrata!
/me going back to lurk around
Like really, for all god and evil souls - just get some common sense and stop being drama queens (and kings).
For next DQ, If someone point out "I don't like this object, please elaborate", I shall find explanation in this topic and link it to prove how artificial and hostile this DQ are now. Mark my words!
Good luck Monstrata!
/me going back to lurk around
agreeSnowNiNo_ wrote:
y is a single map triggering so many ppl
its just a circle clicking game lmao
Tbh I respect the fact that Monstrata has taken a different approach to getting this map ranked. Back in the days, it seemed like you were just kind of the dick you wanted to be, which goes something along the lines of "Since I am Monstrata I can rank whatever I want" kind of mentality. The reason why I really got irritated by your behaviour in the past was due to the fact that you wanted to rank something for the point of "showing how much potential power you could have" and also the fact that you wanted to make the highest * map this specific map. I guess I didn't have too great of an issue with the fact that it would've been the highest * rank but your approach to it was just garbage.
Personally, I still don't think it should be ranked, but yeah. I don't know what it is that makes me feel so against the map, maybe the "ugliness" in itself or just the fact that it has a bunch of RNG jumps that no one besides AUTO will hit. Just rambling.
Personally, I still don't think it should be ranked, but yeah. I don't know what it is that makes me feel so against the map, maybe the "ugliness" in itself or just the fact that it has a bunch of RNG jumps that no one besides AUTO will hit. Just rambling.
The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week, they're just wider. If anything they flow even better than those "perfectly fine" maps.filsdelmao wrote:
Personally, I still don't think it should be ranked, but yeah. I don't know what it is that makes me feel so against the map, maybe the "ugliness" in itself or just the fact that it has a bunch of RNG jumps that no one besides AUTO will hit. Just rambling.
Maybe the flow is "fine" if that is what you truly consider to be fine. I'd love to see you attempt to hit those, and if you do, kudos to you.Kynan wrote:
The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week, they're just wider. If anything they flow even better than those "perfectly fine" maps.filsdelmao wrote:
Personally, I still don't think it should be ranked, but yeah. I don't know what it is that makes me feel so against the map, maybe the "ugliness" in itself or just the fact that it has a bunch of RNG jumps that no one besides AUTO will hit. Just rambling.
If the patterns are similar to trash maps then does that make this a trash map? :thinking:Kynan wrote:
The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week
You're right. That is indeed contradictory.Kisses wrote:
If the patterns are similar to trash maps then does that make this a trash map? :thinking:Kynan wrote:
The patterns aren't much different from the trash PP farm maps you see getting ranked every week
body
bro ur like 100k and ur judging a map that's 8.5 stars with no mapping experience l ooolbody wrote:
Huh, that word is not what I would describe this map as at all. If this is creative then I'm actually the coolest person on Earth[Taiga] wrote:
creative
How about we stop talking about if someone capable of judging a map or not and instead focus on doing constructive criticism? I'd recommend Monstrata to ask for a cleaning session on this thread because a lot of the stuff being said here is really useless and only brings up drama and flame.
hey guys remember when xexxar tried to get me striked 3 different times for after rain
who thinks he'll do it again here raise your hand!!!
who thinks he'll do it again here raise your hand!!!
How did I expect someone with a nickname like that to get my point, I wonder...filsdelmao wrote:
You're right. That is indeed contradictory.Kisses wrote:
If the patterns are similar to trash maps then does that make this a trash map? :thinking:
This map was created to reflect the music. Whether it does that or not, I can't say since i'm not a very good mapper.
What I can add to this conversation is that rankable, doesn't mean playable. If the map reflects the song well, in a way which doesn't break the ranking criteria, it technically deserves to be ranked.
I personally don't want this ranked, since to the player majority, this is the flagship for allowing a "messy" style of mapping to take over. This is probably scare mongering, since all of monstrata's old controversial mapsets have not inspired a wash of quality drop in ranked.
However it's the message which matters here. Objectively it should be ok to rank with no repercussions, but it sends the message to potential mappers "this is ok", even if this map used it's ugliness effectively.
This is my opinion to this whole thing.
What I can add to this conversation is that rankable, doesn't mean playable. If the map reflects the song well, in a way which doesn't break the ranking criteria, it technically deserves to be ranked.
I personally don't want this ranked, since to the player majority, this is the flagship for allowing a "messy" style of mapping to take over. This is probably scare mongering, since all of monstrata's old controversial mapsets have not inspired a wash of quality drop in ranked.
However it's the message which matters here. Objectively it should be ok to rank with no repercussions, but it sends the message to potential mappers "this is ok", even if this map used it's ugliness effectively.
This is my opinion to this whole thing.
body
You were contradicting yourself in the statement of yours and instead of clearing it up you decide to insult me and my name. Tough guy. But since you seem so concerned about your so called "point", go ahead and explain it in further context as to why this song has a better flow than any of those "PP farm maps" that you... didn't refer to?Kynan wrote:
How did I expect someone with a nickname like that to get my point, I wonder...filsdelmao wrote:
You're right. That is indeed contradictory.
Thanks in advance Kynan.
A mapping conversation with players doesn't work out, since they value different things.
Last warning. If you have nothing constructive or relevant to contribute to this discussion, post nothing, or risk a very hefty silence and possible restriction.
We've removed well over fifty posts from this thread at this point.
We've removed well over fifty posts from this thread at this point.
My point is extremely simple to get though : the jumps aren't any more complicated than the ones you see getting ranked every fucking day. They are just harder to hit because they are wider. End of my point. Got it now ?filsdelmao wrote:
You were contradicting yourself in the statement of yours and instead of clearing it up you decide to insult me and my name. Tough guy. But since you seem so concerned about your so called "point", go ahead and explain it in further context as to why this song has a better flow than any of those "PP farm maps" that you... didn't refer to?
Thanks in advance Kynan.
it doesnt apply for quali right
finally
OH BOY
white discord RRREEEEEEEEEEE
winny upload stoppddddddddddddddd
lets do this thingy
gather around for this hell of a trip to dramaland
winny status: stopped
The person who qualified uses light-themed discord, i demand an immediate dq
/s
/s
that was actually hobbes screenshot not me, i'm respectable...
squirrelpascals wrote:
The person who qualified uses light-themed discord, i demand an immediate dq/s
light theme discord should be punishable by death
here we go
this is actually fun now good job monstrata proud of u
GOOO
O BOI HERE COMES THE DRAMA
wait a sec isn't 01:31:862 (3) offscreen since that square is supposedly 4:3 play area 
FINALLY!!! thank you Naotoshi !!!Naotoshi wrote:
it doesnt apply for quali right
AyanokoRin wrote:
wait a sec isn't 01:31:862 (3) offscreen since that square is supposedly 4:3 play area
Not offscreen ^^, the square is supposed to resemble that and anything inside it is definitely inside the play area on 4:3 but the actual play area is bit bigger
oh alright my bad then, I had always assumed that it was strictly the same
let's go monstrota, I was with the map on some parts of its existence, then against it, and now i'm supporting it again, gl.
wait, did the rating reset because it was previously loved?
yeah lol it works like a qualified map, if it get DQ/unloved, it reset when requalifiedKisses wrote:
wait, did the rating reset because it was previously loved?
modded on irc btw
Finally yay!
Tbh, so many people say drama incoming
looks at the last few pages full of gratz
Gratz btw
looks at the last few pages full of gratz
Gratz btw
71 pages holy
(Predict one dq but then again qualify after that ranked)
Gratz btw
(Predict one dq but then again qualify after that ranked)
Gratz btw
The thing that bother me the most in this thread is
THAT WHITE DISCORD NAOTOSHI HOW YOU DARE?
THAT WHITE DISCORD NAOTOSHI HOW YOU DARE?