Long to any degree, 2.5k to 9k obviouslyKhelly wrote:
What combo is long?
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Idk man I'm pretty sure most people get better acc on <200bpm streams than they do on mendes dt.Khelly wrote:
Keeping acc in <200 bpm streams is way harder than playing 240+ bpm wtf I'm ruined
The second one is not specific enough about what type of 240+ bpm.jesus1412 wrote:
Idk man I'm pretty sure most people get better acc on <200bpm streams than they do on mendes dt.Khelly wrote:
Keeping acc in <200 bpm streams is way harder than playing 240+ bpm wtf I'm ruined
Yeah, it's harder, but it isn't enough to justify the difference for a mere 0.5 ms timing window. Seriously, this is adding 0.25 ms of lenience for hitting a note earlier/later, yet the pp value difference is a huge disparity.Khelly wrote:
Keeping acc in <200 bpm streams is way harder than playing 240+ bpm wtf I'm ruined
I like how pp gains go up exponentially as you approach SS because it reflects how much harder it is to go from 98 to 99 than 95 to 98 etc. It is a lot easier to go from 20x100 to 10x100 than 10x to 5x, and I like how it reflects that
I said streams, if you are considering only 11 notes or so bursts as the entirety of streams in the game, that's cute. But even these are hard to play for most of the game population and I believe this majority will have more success at keeping a good accuracy at an easy to aim 170~180 bpm stream with HR than at an AR9.6~10.3 DT over 240 BPM.Khelly wrote:
The second one is not specific enough about what type of 240+ bpm.
Actually, no, you said under 200 bpm stream and then 240+ in general which is encompassing everything; you should've said 240 bpm stream because you shofted the focus to playing dt in general.
Khelly wrote:
Actually, no, you said under 200 bpm stream and then 240+ in general which is encompassing everything; you should've said 240 bpm stream because you shofted the focus to playing dt in general.
Mikakage wrote:
In all these we are talking about simple maps, like most farm maps, that are relatively easy to play and don't actually have what makes both mods harder at the highest levels: streams. In DT it's high BPM streams and in HR is keeping accuracy on long streams. And keeping accuracy in a <200 BPM stream is much easier than playing 240+ BPM in general.
The meaning of your sentence changed when you added "in general" even if the previous sentence was about streams.
You should have either left it out or said "240+ bpm streams in general" and I wouldn't have misinterpreted you.
You should have either left it out or said "240+ bpm streams in general" and I wouldn't have misinterpreted you.
which bpm is easier to acc is too subjective
E m i
Still confused by the pp-System. Just played hard/advanced map. First try full combo, map rank #153 and acc 97.5% and lost 70 global ranks?
I lose rank all the time I play hard maps full combo and 96+ acc. Why is this happening. (I play almost daily)
I lose rank all the time I play hard maps full combo and 96+ acc. Why is this happening. (I play almost daily)
I hope you're aware that if you're rank 50000 and you get -50 ranks you'll be 49950 after it.DahakaMVl wrote:
Still confused by the pp-System. Just played hard/advanced map. First try full combo, map rank #153 and acc 97.5% and lost 70 global ranks?
I lose rank all the time I play hard maps full combo and 96+ acc. Why is this happening. (I play almost daily)
I obviously meant I got ranked worse.Endaris wrote:
I hope you're aware that if you're rank 50000 and you get -50 ranks you'll be 49950 after it.DahakaMVl wrote:
Still confused by the pp-System. Just played hard/advanced map. First try full combo, map rank #153 and acc 97.5% and lost 70 global ranks?
I lose rank all the time I play hard maps full combo and 96+ acc. Why is this happening. (I play almost daily)
other people play the game aswell, while you werent playing they passed you in rank but yours didnt get updated until you set a new score.
damn i should really make a macro for that response.
damn i should really make a macro for that response.
Just like for oh so many others :^)silmarilen wrote:
other people play the game aswell, while you werent playing they passed you in rank but yours didnt get updated until you set a new score.
damn i should really make a macro for that response.
Just pay attention to your PP rather than your rank omg people pls
But pp is an arbitrary number with no meaning behind itMahogany wrote:
Just pay attention to your PP rather than your rank omg people pls
But the situation is someone thinking he's losing ranks for making new plays when infact his pp is increasing but not fast enough to offset the delay.GoldenWolf wrote:
But pp is an arbitrary number with no meaning behind itMahogany wrote:
Just pay attention to your PP rather than your rank omg people pls
Tooth is telling him to pay attention to his pp so that the person can know that their play actually gained them something and was not worthless.
Please pay attention to the conversation rather than trying to promote your agenda.
*score worth less than 1 pp*
"i didnt gain any pp, is the system broken?"
"i didnt gain any pp, is the system broken?"
That already happens though, but I just see the ranks complaint happen a lot more.
Why hello there everyone!
Yes I indeed came here to rant about how it's possbile to lose rank although I gained more acc/points on a map
After reading the latest comments, a lot of what I had in my mind has been answered so... thank you for that!
But... if it meanwhile is a common thing that players only happen to see their rank dropping after playing a map, wouldn't it be neat if we could see the gain of pp as welll when finishing a beatmap? -or lose of course if it's decreasing.
Greets~
Yes I indeed came here to rant about how it's possbile to lose rank although I gained more acc/points on a map
After reading the latest comments, a lot of what I had in my mind has been answered so... thank you for that!
But... if it meanwhile is a common thing that players only happen to see their rank dropping after playing a map, wouldn't it be neat if we could see the gain of pp as welll when finishing a beatmap? -or lose of course if it's decreasing.
Greets~
There was an approved feature request asking for this from a few years ago (iirc.)Kim wrote:
Why hello there everyone!
Yes I indeed came here to rant about how it's possbile to lose rank although I gained more acc/points on a map
After reading the latest comments, a lot of what I had in my mind has been answered so... thank you for that!
But... if it meanwhile is a common thing that players only happen to see their rank dropping after playing a map, wouldn't it be neat if we could see the gain of pp as welll when finishing a beatmap? -or lose of course if it's decreasing.
Greets~
Thanks for the answer!- [ U z z I ] - wrote:
There was an approved feature request asking for this from a few years ago (iirc.)
Do you know what had happened to the request?
I came with this crappy idea. idk if it's already suggested or not.
What if pp calculates the score instead of highest combo?
While a FC will remain the same the non FC will be less punishing
for example
The max combo is 1000 1000x is the max score (FC)
If you were to get 500x combo 2 times (combo broken in the middle of the map) the current system would only count the highest combo which is 500x
But with the score 500x combo 2 times would be worth more score and it might be equal to that of higher combo counts (like 700x or something Idk how to math) and you get 700x combo of pp
This way a choke in the middle of the map will be less depressing.
And I have no clue about this kind of this stuff so feel free to correct my stupidness.
What if pp calculates the score instead of highest combo?
While a FC will remain the same the non FC will be less punishing
for example
The max combo is 1000 1000x is the max score (FC)
If you were to get 500x combo 2 times (combo broken in the middle of the map) the current system would only count the highest combo which is 500x
But with the score 500x combo 2 times would be worth more score and it might be equal to that of higher combo counts (like 700x or something Idk how to math) and you get 700x combo of pp
This way a choke in the middle of the map will be less depressing.
And I have no clue about this kind of this stuff so feel free to correct my stupidness.
If you calculate score then 100s near the end of a long combo will be more devastating than at the beginning.
I'm not sure, but I just have a kind of complaint from too imcomplete ranks with extremely high accuracy and high OD. I'm not right that pp from accuracy should be completely independant from maximun combo lenght. For an example, I know of someone that has Our Stolen Theory - United (L.A.O.S Remix) with 99.47% accuracy but only 1530's maximun combo.
Using tillerino I find that this rank is as worth as the 96.50% FC. And we can see this fact happening:
a) 1530/2275 combo at 99.47% accuracy +6 misses is worth as 270 pp
b) 2275/2275 combo at 96.50% accuracy is aswell worth as 270 pp
What I'm seing from there?
I have nothing againist high accuracy players, but come on, I would find rasonable if you reward these that can complete maps or are close to complete these maps. On an OWC match the 96.50% is worth as a lot more of score and more useful for your country than that 99.47% with several misses but 99.47% accuracy.
If you find that is an issue aswell, I think I have a rasonable solution for this:
a) guess that FC/FC has an accuracy value of 1.00 times the maximun pp from accuracy.
b) now imagine if by using square root of 1/2 of FC to give it a 0.7071... times the maximun pp from accuracy.
c) this would mean that his close to 2/3's of combo is wort h as 0.8160 times the total pp from accuracy, that's over 80% all pp from accuracy.
Because ... honestly... this only happens on OD8 maps or higher that have too many circles, that accuracy is the only mean of the rank, meanwhile FC is worthless compared to extreme accuracy tries with several misses.
Using tillerino I find that this rank is as worth as the 96.50% FC. And we can see this fact happening:
a) 1530/2275 combo at 99.47% accuracy +6 misses is worth as 270 pp
b) 2275/2275 combo at 96.50% accuracy is aswell worth as 270 pp
What I'm seing from there?
I have nothing againist high accuracy players, but come on, I would find rasonable if you reward these that can complete maps or are close to complete these maps. On an OWC match the 96.50% is worth as a lot more of score and more useful for your country than that 99.47% with several misses but 99.47% accuracy.
If you find that is an issue aswell, I think I have a rasonable solution for this:
a) guess that FC/FC has an accuracy value of 1.00 times the maximun pp from accuracy.
b) now imagine if by using square root of 1/2 of FC to give it a 0.7071... times the maximun pp from accuracy.
c) this would mean that his close to 2/3's of combo is wort h as 0.8160 times the total pp from accuracy, that's over 80% all pp from accuracy.
Because ... honestly... this only happens on OD8 maps or higher that have too many circles, that accuracy is the only mean of the rank, meanwhile FC is worthless compared to extreme accuracy tries with several misses.
multiplayer looks at score, the whole reason why pp was implemented in the first place was because score was not a good measurement of skill. let's not go back in time.ReynBolt wrote:
What I'm seing from there?
I have nothing againist high accuracy players, but come on, I would find rasonable if you reward these that can complete maps or are close to complete these maps. On an OWC match the 96.50% is worth as a lot more of score and more useful for your country than that 99.47% with several misses but 99.47% accuracy.
owc looks at something completely different than what pp does, using what's happening there as any indication of how much pp a map should give is just not logical.
99.47% is on a whole different level of skill than 96.50%, i think it's more than reasonable that a non-fc 99.47% would give the same pp as an fc 96.50%.
combo should not be used for determining how much accuracy pp you get because the two things are unrelated. accuracy looks at how accurate you are by time, while combo looks at how accurate you are by position.
He got a lot of pp cause his combo was still decently high. Combo has a linear scaling iirc therefore he already got a decent amount of combo pp.
If he got 3 750 Combos your pp would be a lot lower. Misses are also detrimental for pp but with only 2 of them on such a long map it doesn't have a huge impact.
The question in terms of pp is also:
How likely is the 96,5% player to replicate the FC? He isn't cause he obviously show inconsistency on various spots that will probably cause him to miss on such a long map. The 99,47% player is highly consistent so he should have no problems to get a play of similar quality without much effort even though he might choke on a different spot than before. Therefore the pp awarded seem fair and square for me.
If he got 3 750 Combos your pp would be a lot lower. Misses are also detrimental for pp but with only 2 of them on such a long map it doesn't have a huge impact.
The question in terms of pp is also:
How likely is the 96,5% player to replicate the FC? He isn't cause he obviously show inconsistency on various spots that will probably cause him to miss on such a long map. The 99,47% player is highly consistent so he should have no problems to get a play of similar quality without much effort even though he might choke on a different spot than before. Therefore the pp awarded seem fair and square for me.
I don't think you can call 96.5% inconsistant - some people are just worse at acc.
There's no point trying to balance aim/speed/acc pp anymore. It's the best it's going to get for a while. When aim/speed/acc are split apart again we can begin to find (and fix) flaws.
Endaris wrote:
He got a lot of pp cause his combo was still decently high. Combo has a linear scaling iirc therefore he already got a decent amount of combo pp.
If he got 3 750 Combos your pp would be a lot lower. Misses are also detrimental for pp but with only 2 of them on such a long map it doesn't have a huge impact.
The question in terms of pp is also:
How likely is the 96,5% player to replicate the FC? He isn't cause he obviously show inconsistency on various spots that will probably cause him to miss on such a long map. The 99,47% player is highly consistent so he should have no problems to get a play of similar quality without much effort even though he might choke on a different spot than before. Therefore the pp awarded seem fair and square for me.
I know players that are very consistent in combo but not in accuracy. These oftenly shine on multiplayers more than these that have massive accuracy but at missing oftenly. You can't judge anyone's constancy just because of the accuracy he has got because there are 99% players that lose combo every 300 combo on a 5.25 stars maps but they're still doing them with 99% accuracy; apart there are lucky accuracy tries aswell; people can get lucky accuracy alike at combo and I think a good rank should be someting between good accuracy and good combo.
For an example, you can rush for FC on maps like Rungran - d.m.c (Band Ver.) [Insane] by just doing a 88.50% F ; this time the more accuracy you have on that map the more equilibrated is the rank in terms of pp.
Rungran - d.m.c (Band Ver.) [Insane] specifications:
bpm: 180 ; stars 5.39 ; AR9 CS4 OD7, 341 circles & 76 circles.
When you're 2000 pp rank player and then you do that FC you gain between 40 and 60 pp commonly with a 88-91% FC, but as you retry and retry again the map, you need to get likely +2-3% acc to get around 3-4 pp considering it's weighted at 100% because being your first rank. Compared to DT plays in which you can get up to 7-15 pp's for only 1% whole accuracy in comparation.
The fact is, there are maps that are OP from FC (mainly OD7 maps with too much stars) and others that scale too much from accuracy and these "free accuracy farm maps" in which the more accuracy you gain from there the more overrated the rank is (happens at OD9-OD9.67 DT's maps between 100-190 pp level ranks). And if you compare these from nomod or HR similar pp level play you will find these 2 are both harder than the DT one.
so this means:
case a) : the more accuracy you do on that map, the more equilibrated is in terms of pp and the less overrated is.
case b) : the more accurady you get from that map, the more overrated you make that rank.
So what is your issue?
Might be the case that you can get better acc than you usually would but if getting high acc is so easy why wouldn't you just get high acc?
Imo it's fair and square that accuracy has a decent value in a rhythm game and when someone whose strength is accuracy and someone whose strength is holding combo get the same award I find that pretty much legit. Especially since your "drop at every 300 combo" doesn't apply to the initial example you gave.
Also why the hell are you suddenly talking about DT? This was never part of the discussion before. Especially since you seem to be happily abusing this acc-festival.
88% FCs are kind of rare by the way as this acc is so low that it always involves shaky control. I don't see a 2k pp player FC that.
Might be the case that you can get better acc than you usually would but if getting high acc is so easy why wouldn't you just get high acc?
Imo it's fair and square that accuracy has a decent value in a rhythm game and when someone whose strength is accuracy and someone whose strength is holding combo get the same award I find that pretty much legit. Especially since your "drop at every 300 combo" doesn't apply to the initial example you gave.
Also why the hell are you suddenly talking about DT? This was never part of the discussion before. Especially since you seem to be happily abusing this acc-festival.
88% FCs are kind of rare by the way as this acc is so low that it always involves shaky control. I don't see a 2k pp player FC that.
Ehm... you're right, there was no reasson to mention about DT topic... but I guess we can continue about the powerful nomod FC's that are oftenly seen in low pp's players. well I've seen cases of players at 1600 global pp doing a 98 pp rank at rungran with around 400's combo and some 2000-2400 pp friends of mine that has rungran aswell with 89-92% FC accuracy. Rungran is a commonly pp'ed map at 1600-2600 pp players. So yes, I have proofs that players of a wide range can do this map 
You have these 3 cases of friends of mine that when they were 1900-2100 pp they made dmc rungran FC with A and one that at 1679 had almost done FC on it. So I would not underrate the power of low pp players that with retries can rank a 550's combo on an extra map that is built mainly on long streams. Long streams map combo are practically shorter in time lenght than a map built of 550 combos out of jumps. The shorter a map is, the more tryhardable is, that is why I know some 2000 pp players can even FC dmc rungran if they tryhard it enough.
A similar case happens with 07th Expansion - rog-unlimitation in which some players at 2800-3300 pp can do aswell a 88-91% FC on there gaining an almost 200 pp rank.
Both of these maps are OD7 wtih high stars from streams with spacing, and both are commonly done by unexpectively low pp players.
So there is another map in which low acc FC is common and grants more than decent pp. Well yes I can't do this second one to be honest, but I see this commonly on people's best performance. Seems that a large group of people have no real problems about doing long streams wtih that spacing with CS3, I'm unsure on what to think about the pp efficiency of that map ... it's nothing easy but it's too commonly seen even on people at below 3000 pp, because the 2 friends of mine did rog unlimitation when they were a bit smaller than 3000 pp.
So ... if its true that 99% acc high OD is the most common way to have best perforamnces, it's commonly seen that some people don't need accuracy at all to make their ranks and if you expect that skill is lineally relationated to accuracy you're wrong. Likely we see DT or nomod maps that we see too often on people's best performance with 99% acc there are a group of low acc FC maps that we can see sometimes aswell and that MANY people have complaints againist these maps aswell, mostly talking about dmc rungran in which some people hates the much pp it gives to themselves.
But yes, this kind of player is not rare, but we have to admit that DT high accuracy players are most common for a group of reassons that some people on this topic have already talked about this.
SPOILER
Players profiles that pp'ed dmc rungran
92.24% acc B of 400's combo [1679 pp player]
91.13% acc A FC [2267 pp player]
91.49% acc A FC [2483 pp player]
92.24% acc B of 400's combo [1679 pp player]
91.13% acc A FC [2267 pp player]
91.49% acc A FC [2483 pp player]
You have these 3 cases of friends of mine that when they were 1900-2100 pp they made dmc rungran FC with A and one that at 1679 had almost done FC on it. So I would not underrate the power of low pp players that with retries can rank a 550's combo on an extra map that is built mainly on long streams. Long streams map combo are practically shorter in time lenght than a map built of 550 combos out of jumps. The shorter a map is, the more tryhardable is, that is why I know some 2000 pp players can even FC dmc rungran if they tryhard it enough.
A similar case happens with 07th Expansion - rog-unlimitation in which some players at 2800-3300 pp can do aswell a 88-91% FC on there gaining an almost 200 pp rank.
Both of these maps are OD7 wtih high stars from streams with spacing, and both are commonly done by unexpectively low pp players.
So there is another map in which low acc FC is common and grants more than decent pp. Well yes I can't do this second one to be honest, but I see this commonly on people's best performance. Seems that a large group of people have no real problems about doing long streams wtih that spacing with CS3, I'm unsure on what to think about the pp efficiency of that map ... it's nothing easy but it's too commonly seen even on people at below 3000 pp, because the 2 friends of mine did rog unlimitation when they were a bit smaller than 3000 pp.
So ... if its true that 99% acc high OD is the most common way to have best perforamnces, it's commonly seen that some people don't need accuracy at all to make their ranks and if you expect that skill is lineally relationated to accuracy you're wrong. Likely we see DT or nomod maps that we see too often on people's best performance with 99% acc there are a group of low acc FC maps that we can see sometimes aswell and that MANY people have complaints againist these maps aswell, mostly talking about dmc rungran in which some people hates the much pp it gives to themselves.
But yes, this kind of player is not rare, but we have to admit that DT high accuracy players are most common for a group of reassons that some people on this topic have already talked about this.
But low-acc FCs give a decent award just like you stated with two examples.
Are they underrewarded? I think not.
OD has an exponential scaling but a scaling that just ENDS at some point. So the difference in accuracy has to be huge to make up a huge difference in combo which seems fair for me.
Are they underrewarded? I think not.
OD has an exponential scaling but a scaling that just ENDS at some point. So the difference in accuracy has to be huge to make up a huge difference in combo which seems fair for me.
I would say that they are not underrated on some nomod maps, mostly acesible at OD7 maps with high spaced streams, but they are rarely seen on other kind of maps.
The thing that I do not like is that accuracy is completely independant of map's level. This makes some weird exceptions doing unexpected high pp, more than maps with 1 more whole star at SS. Don Omar ft. Lucenzo - Danza Kuduro [Experto] is a map that with DT has OD9.67 and 4.25 stars ... a very strange case of a map with too low stars but such OD. FOLiACETATE - Heterochromia Iridis [Another] is an difficult another map of 223 bpm streams, anoying reversals and theorical star level of 5.25 stars but OD7.
Well the case is this:
Case a) Don Omar ft. Lucenzo - Danza Kuduro [Experto] +DT
has 4.25 stars, 195 bpm, AR9.67, OD9.67 & CS4, contains 223 circles & 175 sliders
Case b) FOLiACETATE - Heterochromia Iridis [Another]
has 5.25 stars, 223 bpm, AR9, OD7 & CS4, contains 361 circles & 213 sliders
maps pp ranges by tillerino (because too much lag I can't upload images this time)
For case a)
95% = 82 pp
98% = 117 pp
99% = 143 pp
100% = 185 pp
For case b)
95% = 143 pp
98% = 156 pp
99% = 165 pp
100% = 178 pp
Observations:
1.- Meanwhile a) value is "trash" from FC, it's massive OD scaling ends beating b) which is a much harder map overall.
2.- map a) gives as much pp at 99% acc as map b) but with 95% acc.
3.- Elements distribution (again)
a) contains 223 circles & 175 sliders
b) contains 361 circles & 213 sliders
Toughts
Well, map b) is very bitch to FC because anoying reversals, unconfortable positions at some circles and it is even difficult to FC for players over 4500 pp. map a) is just hard to accurate, any player that has enough aim to FC an Hard +DT can do map a) with FC and with retries can gradually rise his accuracy on map a). Result is that a much more wide range of players (even ME! at 4436 pp) can gain pp from this 4.2 stars map. Meanwhile players of even higher rank than mine have real difficulties to FC map b) for a worthless amount of pp.
That's how OD is OVERRATED (more than just "accuracy is op"). I have nothing more to say.
The thing that I do not like is that accuracy is completely independant of map's level. This makes some weird exceptions doing unexpected high pp, more than maps with 1 more whole star at SS. Don Omar ft. Lucenzo - Danza Kuduro [Experto] is a map that with DT has OD9.67 and 4.25 stars ... a very strange case of a map with too low stars but such OD. FOLiACETATE - Heterochromia Iridis [Another] is an difficult another map of 223 bpm streams, anoying reversals and theorical star level of 5.25 stars but OD7.
Well the case is this:
Case a) Don Omar ft. Lucenzo - Danza Kuduro [Experto] +DT
has 4.25 stars, 195 bpm, AR9.67, OD9.67 & CS4, contains 223 circles & 175 sliders
Case b) FOLiACETATE - Heterochromia Iridis [Another]
has 5.25 stars, 223 bpm, AR9, OD7 & CS4, contains 361 circles & 213 sliders
maps pp ranges by tillerino (because too much lag I can't upload images this time)
For case a)
95% = 82 pp
98% = 117 pp
99% = 143 pp
100% = 185 pp
For case b)
95% = 143 pp
98% = 156 pp
99% = 165 pp
100% = 178 pp
Observations:
1.- Meanwhile a) value is "trash" from FC, it's massive OD scaling ends beating b) which is a much harder map overall.
2.- map a) gives as much pp at 99% acc as map b) but with 95% acc.
3.- Elements distribution (again)
a) contains 223 circles & 175 sliders
b) contains 361 circles & 213 sliders
Toughts
Well, map b) is very bitch to FC because anoying reversals, unconfortable positions at some circles and it is even difficult to FC for players over 4500 pp. map a) is just hard to accurate, any player that has enough aim to FC an Hard +DT can do map a) with FC and with retries can gradually rise his accuracy on map a). Result is that a much more wide range of players (even ME! at 4436 pp) can gain pp from this 4.2 stars map. Meanwhile players of even higher rank than mine have real difficulties to FC map b) for a worthless amount of pp.
That's how OD is OVERRATED (more than just "accuracy is op"). I have nothing more to say.
The actual mapdesign and complexity is much more important.
I also thought we weren't talking about DT?
Anyway, enjoy SSing this for massive 286pp:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/290040
I also thought we weren't talking about DT?
Anyway, enjoy SSing this for massive 286pp:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/290040
E m i
argggg 138 bpm streams is too hard!!! ... seriusly the more far to 185-225 bpm the harder is it to me!!! (regardless if it's slower or faster than the given range)Endaris wrote:
The actual mapdesign and complexity is much more important.
I also thought we weren't talking about DT?
Anyway, enjoy SSing this for massive 286pp:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/290040
ReynBolt wrote:
The thing that I do not like is that accuracy is completely independant of map's level.
silmarilen wrote:
acc should be a function of map complexity, not just of map length and od. too bad there dont seem to be any ways to do that.
Please don't act like the bpm is your problem. It's the technical complexity and high OD that keeps you from getting anything close to good acc on it.ReynBolt wrote:
argggg 138 bpm streams is too hard!!! ... seriusly the more far to 185-225 bpm the harder is it to me!!! (regardless if it's slower or faster than the given range)Endaris wrote:
The actual mapdesign and complexity is much more important.
I also thought we weren't talking about DT?
Anyway, enjoy SSing this for massive 286pp:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/290040
> thelewa did 99%Endaris wrote:
The actual mapdesign and complexity is much more important.
I also thought we weren't talking about DT?
Anyway, enjoy SSing this for massive 286pp:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/290040
I pass.
Short: Can the PP algorhythm spot Sliders which are hit too early (100) but still give full points (300) and take that in consideration when PP'ing?
I was wondering about a few things today and wanted to ask following;
- Is the PP calculated with the replay sent to the server or "just the score"?
- In case of replay, does the replay save the Sliderhits in a value which is usable for the PP algorhythm (ex. Slider gave 300, but the initial hit was in the 100 area (xy ms off the actual timing)?
If yes, I was wondering if it'd be able to take "300 Sliders with a hit on 100/50 window" in consideration and adjust the PP with that.
From time to time I see post about Sliders being to easy as theyre a guaranteed 300. ppy wont change this as it's just too big of a deal, it'd change too much in all the (leaderboard-)scores we have now. Can the PP algorhythm spot these faulty 100 Sliders?
Because I think that that'd kinda solve the problem to some extend, as people dont really care about their actual scores, but rather about their PP. That's just my view though.
I was wondering about a few things today and wanted to ask following;
- Is the PP calculated with the replay sent to the server or "just the score"?
- In case of replay, does the replay save the Sliderhits in a value which is usable for the PP algorhythm (ex. Slider gave 300, but the initial hit was in the 100 area (xy ms off the actual timing)?
If yes, I was wondering if it'd be able to take "300 Sliders with a hit on 100/50 window" in consideration and adjust the PP with that.
From time to time I see post about Sliders being to easy as theyre a guaranteed 300. ppy wont change this as it's just too big of a deal, it'd change too much in all the (leaderboard-)scores we have now. Can the PP algorhythm spot these faulty 100 Sliders?
Because I think that that'd kinda solve the problem to some extend, as people dont really care about their actual scores, but rather about their PP. That's just my view though.
Replay data isn't used, no. Just combo, accuracy, and 300s/100s/50s/misses. Even if pp could be calculated based off of replay data for new scores (and that would significantly increase the time required for calculation, which is already pretty long because of the ridiculous number of scores in existence), replay data isn't saved for current scores that aren't top x, so it couldn't be applied retroactively.
I see, that kills the idea then. Thanks for the answer
I think that was the longest time that this thread hasn't been posted in since it was made.
I broke it, rip wrjesus1412 wrote:
I think that was the longest time that this thread hasn't been posted in since it was made.
dead game
I wish pp scoring was acc based like mania or at least acc based pp and with some combo bonus pp. never gonna happen :{
That would be quite retarded, combo > all.KukiMonster wrote:
I wish pp scoring was acc based like mania or at least acc based pp and with some combo bonus pp. never gonna happen :{
specially for you :')jesus1412 wrote:
That would be quite retarded, combo > all.
Combo -> Acc
When acc/speed pp split?
When acc/speed pp split?
Mania doesn't have an aim component like osu does so combo is irrelevant there.KukiMonster wrote:
I wish pp scoring was acc based like mania or at least acc based pp and with some combo bonus pp. never gonna happen :{
Hello guys,so i might get somehing wrong but... I just finished a map with full combo, map that was weighted 111 pp and in my top ranks list i see that map on my #1 place, and it's weighted 100% (111 pp). But i didn't got 111 pp to my score, i got something like 30 or maybe little bit mor. So what i got wrong about PP system?
Weightage systemTheLevitian wrote:
Hello guys,so i might get somehing wrong but... I just finished a map with full combo, map that was weighted 111 pp and in my top ranks list i see that map on my #1 place, and it's weighted 100% (111 pp). But i didn't got 111 pp to my score, i got something like 30 or maybe little bit mor. So what i got wrong about PP system?
For transparency on how your final pp is calculated, pp gained from the beatmap is given along with weight (% of eligible pp to be gained for final pp). Only your highest pp score's beatmap gives you full pp. Other scores' pp values will be multiplied with decreasing percentage. The percentage is always rounded to the next whole number for displaying, but for calculations it is not. For example a score can be weighted by 0.48% despite the display saying "0%". If n is the amount of scores giving more pp than a given score, then the score's weight is 0.95^n .
It follows, that your total pp is computed as follows. Let PP contain each score's pp value. PP[i] denotes the ith score's pp value, sorted decreasingly, where i goes from 1 to n, and n is the amount of scores you have.
Total pp = PP[1] * 0.95^0 + PP[2] * 0.95^1 + PP[3] * 0.95^2 + ... + PP[n] * 0.95^(n-1)
Click for an example of the formula usage (scroll down to see the example).
There is also bonus pp based on the number of ranked maps you have a score on. The bonus is:
416.6667 (1- 0.9994^Number_of_scores).
I haven't seen anyone talk about patterns and "reading" pp so I'm gonna make a post real quick about them.
Please remember that I have very little information on the topic of pattern's pp values as I only read like 6 of the last pages and have vague memories of reading the first 30 or so, and they said that pattern recognition is a thing of the distant future...
So after thinking a lot about patterns that are more difficult than others I've come to some conclusions and I'll post them here.
First, overlaps are increasingly hard to read/play as AR and CS get lower
Second, if fast (160+ 1/4 bpm) snapping between 70° and 180° hasn't been given any proper value yet, it deserves some.
Third, jumps Are hardest at 180°, 90° and 0° there should be a small increase in value for each of these, linearly falling to the default value where the halfway points(i.e. 45° and 135°). I guess the value increase should also not be too large, like at max 1,1 times higher aim value for jumps like these
Fourth, Jump sets where combo changes deserve some extra value, as I personally, and most likely a lot of other people too, rely on followpoints when reading jumps. (Granted, maps where combo changes aren't logical shouldn't make it to ranking, thus making this nigh irrelevant on the topic of pp)
Just typing out some of my thoughts on map difficulty values, I'm sure I missed a ton of points I've thought of during my personal performance evaluation system planning.
Please remember that I have very little information on the topic of pattern's pp values as I only read like 6 of the last pages and have vague memories of reading the first 30 or so, and they said that pattern recognition is a thing of the distant future...
So after thinking a lot about patterns that are more difficult than others I've come to some conclusions and I'll post them here.
First, overlaps are increasingly hard to read/play as AR and CS get lower
Second, if fast (160+ 1/4 bpm) snapping between 70° and 180° hasn't been given any proper value yet, it deserves some.
Third, jumps Are hardest at 180°, 90° and 0° there should be a small increase in value for each of these, linearly falling to the default value where the halfway points(i.e. 45° and 135°). I guess the value increase should also not be too large, like at max 1,1 times higher aim value for jumps like these
Fourth, Jump sets where combo changes deserve some extra value, as I personally, and most likely a lot of other people too, rely on followpoints when reading jumps. (Granted, maps where combo changes aren't logical shouldn't make it to ranking, thus making this nigh irrelevant on the topic of pp)
Just typing out some of my thoughts on map difficulty values, I'm sure I missed a ton of points I've thought of during my personal performance evaluation system planning.
p/3553419 there's been a lot of talk, but nothing done about itBrimroth wrote:
...
if there was an easy way (easy to find, stuffed to your face) to get all the circle/slider positions and timings for several maps and just write an algorhitm to calculate stuff i think people would experiment with pattern and other difficulty calculation stuff more
I really hate how I can beat my score and get a lower PP value than the lower score. How and why is this possible, and can it be changed to take your highest pp attempt rather than your highest score?
It can and theres work being done for this; in the future you'll have multiple "ranked" plays for each mod but only your highest PP one contributes to your PP total. (if i remember correctly)
my only complain is that I've been correcting some songs that I had in C because I couldnt play them properly at that moment, but it has happened that I get a better rank and accuracy in the song and my global accuracy drops...I dont get it...
The accuracy on your profile is weighted by the accuracy of your top plays.
The worse a play is the less influence it has.
Therefore a C without any combo and trash acc has no influence on your weighted accuracy but a B with mediocre acc and high combo does have influence and will therefore lower your weighted accuracy.
The worse a play is the less influence it has.
Therefore a C without any combo and trash acc has no influence on your weighted accuracy but a B with mediocre acc and high combo does have influence and will therefore lower your weighted accuracy.
double time weighting
I believe the reason it gives more pp than it should (difficulty-wise) is because it gives a bonus for higher OD despite not increasing OD at all.
Higher OD decreases the time window in which you need to hit to score a 300. It therefor increases the time window between those 300 hit windows which is where the difficulty/accuracy challenge comes from.
This is not the case for double time. Double time merely decreases the time window required for a 300 but evenly decreases the time window between hits (instead of increasing it).
Double time makes you need to play faster, not more accurate than no-mod at all.
I believe the reason it gives more pp than it should (difficulty-wise) is because it gives a bonus for higher OD despite not increasing OD at all.
Higher OD decreases the time window in which you need to hit to score a 300. It therefor increases the time window between those 300 hit windows which is where the difficulty/accuracy challenge comes from.
This is not the case for double time. Double time merely decreases the time window required for a 300 but evenly decreases the time window between hits (instead of increasing it).
Double time makes you need to play faster, not more accurate than no-mod at all.
E m i
pp bonus for more time interval between hits (lower bpm, pauses) would be nice, because it's tuff
To keep the same relative accuracy with DT, you need to have a higher absolute accuracy.julchiar wrote:
double time weighting
I believe the reason it gives more pp than it should (difficulty-wise) is because it gives a bonus for higher OD despite not increasing OD at all.
Higher OD decreases the time window in which you need to hit to score a 300. It therefor increases the time window between those 300 hit windows which is where the difficulty/accuracy challenge comes from.
This is not the case for double time. Double time merely decreases the time window required for a 300 but evenly decreases the time window between hits (instead of increasing it).
Double time makes you need to play faster, not more accurate than no-mod at all.
While it's true that relative accuracy is
The relative vs absolute problem comes up in reading too, with density. DT keeps the relative reading difficulty (density) the same, but the absolute reading diffficulty (same density, higher AR) is higher.
More of a question than feedback, but regardless.
Does Hidden mod by itself affect the PP gained from the map or does it only increase score? Asking Tillerino while playing with both nomod and hidden seem to result in it guessing the same PP
Does Hidden mod by itself affect the PP gained from the map or does it only increase score? Asking Tillerino while playing with both nomod and hidden seem to result in it guessing the same PP
Hidden gives a fixed amount to the aim value and accuracy bonus of a score. If I'm not mistaken it's an 18% boost to aim and a 2% boost to accuracy, so it's best used in jump/small circle maps with high OD.
I feel alive
The lack of PP you get for doing a HD play. I think a couple years back HD was actually rewarding and now it's not. Basically you have no incentive to learn HD anymore because the lack of performance points you get.
The way things are currently, HD is very rewarding if you learn to play it well and likely to be harmful if you don't play it well and just use it on random plays. It gives a 20% boost to aim pp, which can be huge, and a 2% (I think) boost to accuracy pp, which is basically nothing. If you can use it on aim-heavy maps without dropping accuracy for it, it's very rewarding. However, if you use it on less aim-heavy maps with high OD and lose accuracy for it, you very well might find yourself losing pp for using it. And don't even try to play hard-to-read, easy-to-aim maps with HD. Not worth. There are fewer of those after the recent HD change though.
It basically suffers from the same issue as flashlight. Making it feel rewarding for individual maps would make it insanely OP overall. It's a bigger issue for flashlight because being able to play HD on most maps isn't a problem for most people who try to learn it (everyone except me b/c i suck at reading). The system could definitely be better, but I don't know how tom would make this particular aspect of the system smoother within the current framework.
It basically suffers from the same issue as flashlight. Making it feel rewarding for individual maps would make it insanely OP overall. It's a bigger issue for flashlight because being able to play HD on most maps isn't a problem for most people who try to learn it (everyone except me b/c i suck at reading). The system could definitely be better, but I don't know how tom would make this particular aspect of the system smoother within the current framework.
Why use anything? The pp algorithm is primarily rewarding aim and people use devices like touch screens where aim doesn't matter in the slightest. So eventually, people get rewarded for the slickest aiming skills they don't have.ZenithPhantasm wrote:
Why use pp when you can use percentiles?
Suggestions:
1. Remove the aim component from the algorithm completely
or
2. Delete or unrank touch screen scores or at least don't give pp for respective plays.
or
3. Remove pp from the game if you really believe touch screen is a legit playstyle
If you consider no.2 but really argue with the complexity of the algorithm becomming too demanding for the servers then make clear using touch screens is a punishable offense like using aim hacks and ban the cheaters. Simple but effective.
The whole concept is broken and doesn't work with touch screen scores being submitted.
T R I G G E R E D
Sure it has the potential to be broken but as of right now not a single top player uses touchscreen. Not sure if your puppy choked on a touchscreen or something but honestly it's not a big issue until it actually causes any problems.Infevo wrote:
Why use anything? The pp algorithm is primarily rewarding aim and people use devices like touch screens where aim doesn't matter in the slightest. So eventually, people get rewarded for the slickest aiming skills they don't have.ZenithPhantasm wrote:
Why use pp when you can use percentiles?
Suggestions:
1. Remove the aim component from the algorithm completely
or
2. Delete or unrank touch screen scores or at least don't give pp for respective plays.
or
3. Remove pp from the game if you really believe touch screen is a legit playstyle
If you consider no.2 but really argue with the complexity of the algorithm becomming too demanding for the servers then make clear using touch screens is a punishable offense like using aim hacks and ban the cheaters. Simple but effective.
The whole concept is broken and doesn't work with touch screen scores being submitted.
on topic: Is there really no way to calculate angles in maps? I feel like the aim component would be complete with a correctly added weighting for awkward angles
^^uberpancake wrote:
but honestly it's not a big issue until it actually causes any problems.
Maybe it's just me but I'd like to think of it as a problem when a 25k rank player craps out a <100 rank score with 400pp+ and gains 6k rank for a 80% acc play in the process. And considering >50% of the rewarded pp being aim based and touch doesn't require any aim skill whatsoever it is dazzling to see people play it down and claim it was just another legit playstyle.
I really should start caring less... facing an absolute absence of reason and logic here on the forums makes my brain bleed.
I agree that touch screen has no place in this game. It's such an inherently different way to play the game that it's essentially a different game alltogether. Every single other playstyle is about moving your cursor on your screen by using some peripheral. With a touch screen you just touch the screen (as the name already suggests), you don't move a cursor. You can easily use 4 (or more) fingers, removing the aim aspect of the game completely. Exgon's kanojo score is the perfect example of this. Those jumps are pretty much impossible for any normal player, yet with a touch screen he can just put 4 fingers over the positions and press them in the right order, essentially trivializing what would otherwise have been the most impressive fc in the game so far. You can argue that tag4 maps don't give pp so it doesn't matter, but the same thing happens in highscore (and other maps) but in a less severe way. He may be a good player, but he's definitely not good enough to fc one of the hardest jumpmaps that is currently ranked without cheezing his way through the jumps with a touch screen.
one possible last resort fix that would work for certain is invalidate plays that have any cursor teleportation. this would hurt tablet players too but might be for the best if touchscreen becomes mainstream.
aren't tablets pretty much touchscreens but you need to touch with a pen
Not even close. First of all, with a tablet you're not directly aiming on the screen (unless you're using a tablet pc, which is probably even less common than touch screen). Second, you still need to hold and move something. You can only use up to 2 pens properly because you only have 2 hands (and how many people are ambidextrous enough to do that?), and then i don't even know if that works. And if it does, it's sure going to be hard as hell coordinating 2 pens without looking at them directly.jaaakb wrote:
aren't tablets pretty much touchscreens but you need to touch with a pen
holy moly that's a lot of salt, calm down people
i guess people have different thoughts, but generally you are right
i was gunna ask this question, but sometimes i think my tablet is another computer that you can adjust the size of the areasilmarilen wrote:
Not even close. First of all, with a tablet you're not directly aiming on the screen (unless you're using a tablet pc, which is probably even less common than touch screen). Second, you still need to hold and move something. You can only use up to 2 pens properly because you only have 2 hands (and how many people are ambidextrous enough to do that?), and then i don't even know if that works. And if it does, it's sure going to be hard as hell coordinating 2 pens without looking at them directly.jaaakb wrote:
aren't tablets pretty much touchscreens but you need to touch with a pen
i guess people have different thoughts, but generally you are right
Touchscreen plays do look broken on jump maps but I don't think they're that bad, mainly considering that it seems like a pain to read (fast) stuff with your hands in front of the screen, most maps have streams and fast streams also seem like they'd require skill to do on a touchscreen consistently, and on top of that maps with crazy slider magic might also be a problem for touchscreen players. Yeah, it looks stupidly easy on maps like Kanojo and Helix but I don't think they're as broken as people think they are. That said, they do trivialize jumps, and using a touchscreen is pretty much the only way to legally trivialize any aspect of osu! gameplay right now. That in itself is good enough an argument against it.
On another note, have any solutions or reasonable suggestions been provided yet for sliders being underweighted? I was working on a very slider-heavy Extreme earlier, and even though it plays like a 5.5 star it was only rated 4.72 stars. The star rating actually started going closer to 5 once I started mapping the calm section which had more circles in it. I mean, slider angles aside, it seems wrong to me that a legitimately difficult map with big jumps gives far less pp/gets rated far lower than some map with moderate sized jumps that simply has more circles.
Which reminds me, somehow World's End DT (happy's version) is rated lower than Toumei Elegy's hardest diff. I can't imagine a player who can FC World's End DT that wouldn't be able to FC Toumei Elegy unless their speed is way way above their aim. But that seems rather unreasonable to me, considering the hardest parts on Toumei for me are the streams. I guess Jesse's point about fast streams with low spacing being underrated still hasn't been addressed.
On another note, have any solutions or reasonable suggestions been provided yet for sliders being underweighted? I was working on a very slider-heavy Extreme earlier, and even though it plays like a 5.5 star it was only rated 4.72 stars. The star rating actually started going closer to 5 once I started mapping the calm section which had more circles in it. I mean, slider angles aside, it seems wrong to me that a legitimately difficult map with big jumps gives far less pp/gets rated far lower than some map with moderate sized jumps that simply has more circles.
Which reminds me, somehow World's End DT (happy's version) is rated lower than Toumei Elegy's hardest diff. I can't imagine a player who can FC World's End DT that wouldn't be able to FC Toumei Elegy unless their speed is way way above their aim. But that seems rather unreasonable to me, considering the hardest parts on Toumei for me are the streams. I guess Jesse's point about fast streams with low spacing being underrated still hasn't been addressed.
they do need a massive buff, but it's hard to do that with the nature of acc pp. assuming very fast streams get the buff, plays that have abysmally low acc, like mouse buttons enabled + hitting both keys at once low yet didn't break combo because they were easy to aim will be heavily overrated even after losing all acc pp.
with a huge buff, plays that achieve high accuracy (relative to the bpm of course, even 90% can be high in some cases), will be rewarded appropriately. If there were some way to make it so that if the difficulty of a map comes from low spacing high bpm streams, that having non-existent acc like 60% or something that shows they didnt even really play the map does more than just forego all acc pp, it reduces the overall pp of the score by a lot. Of course, being able to hold a ridiculously low acc combo on a map with ultra high bpm streams due to double tapping or some other mash tech is not possible on every map that falls under the category, but this contingency shouldn't really hurt any of them.
Acc curves should also be rescaled for these maps, because the whole 98%-100% mega curve is utterly pointless on something with 285 bpm streams or whatever. However i'm not sure what would be a fair place to start the curves, maybe tom should get all the top speed players together to discuss it. Note im not saying acc bonus should cap out, it will still increase up to 100% as always, I'm just proposing that it starts ramping up sooner than 98-99% since on a lot of these maps these accuracies are simply not possible yet. If it's done right as speed players improve even more and get higher acc the reward will be appropriate and allow the maps to stay relevant and keep up with typical farm maps.
i dont know, i just want the relatively few players who put themselves through more physical strain than any standard hr/dt farmer to achieve stamina at high speeds to get what they deserve, but it's so hard to think of solutions that don't involve splitting up aim/acc/speed entirely.
with a huge buff, plays that achieve high accuracy (relative to the bpm of course, even 90% can be high in some cases), will be rewarded appropriately. If there were some way to make it so that if the difficulty of a map comes from low spacing high bpm streams, that having non-existent acc like 60% or something that shows they didnt even really play the map does more than just forego all acc pp, it reduces the overall pp of the score by a lot. Of course, being able to hold a ridiculously low acc combo on a map with ultra high bpm streams due to double tapping or some other mash tech is not possible on every map that falls under the category, but this contingency shouldn't really hurt any of them.
Acc curves should also be rescaled for these maps, because the whole 98%-100% mega curve is utterly pointless on something with 285 bpm streams or whatever. However i'm not sure what would be a fair place to start the curves, maybe tom should get all the top speed players together to discuss it. Note im not saying acc bonus should cap out, it will still increase up to 100% as always, I'm just proposing that it starts ramping up sooner than 98-99% since on a lot of these maps these accuracies are simply not possible yet. If it's done right as speed players improve even more and get higher acc the reward will be appropriate and allow the maps to stay relevant and keep up with typical farm maps.
i dont know, i just want the relatively few players who put themselves through more physical strain than any standard hr/dt farmer to achieve stamina at high speeds to get what they deserve, but it's so hard to think of solutions that don't involve splitting up aim/acc/speed entirely.
That was mostly talking about 270+ bpm tho. World's end doesn't reach that.Tess wrote:
I guess Jesse's point about fast streams with low spacing being underrated still hasn't been addressed.
I do believe that extremely low accuracy already lowers your total pp beyond what you could lose from just having bad acc, at least tp did. It was not a lot (like 10% or something? random number i pulled out of my ass) but it did certainly happen.xxjesus1412fanx wrote:
that having non-existent acc like 60% or something that shows they didnt even really play the map does more than just forego all acc pp, it reduces the overall pp of the score by a lot.
On Wiki page, accuracy is said to make up for just a small margin of the "Speed" and "Aim" PP score sections, but is this really true?
How would you define the "small margin"?
Maybe 0%-5%? Or 0%-10%? In pharmacology, sometimes even 0.1% chance for medicine to poison people can be unacceptable. However, in osu!, this "small margin" can be much, much higher than 5% or 10%, comprising quite a big part of "Speed" and "Aim" score sections.
I don't want to give exact examples and numbers, but how big this {small margin} is? Should it be really called the {small margin}?
I understand that it can help in preventing people from farming PP from a long "lucky streams" on parts of very hard maps, but they would still need to deal with misses, which can wreck your overall score pretty badly.
It's just that small margin sounds as it really is small margin, while it doesn't necessarily need to be. Maybe we could get some more explanation on this matter, or the formula's sketch could be just more precise in wording? Even if something can be near negligible on high accuracy, it can be a major thing at lower ones.
How would you define the "small margin"?
Maybe 0%-5%? Or 0%-10%? In pharmacology, sometimes even 0.1% chance for medicine to poison people can be unacceptable. However, in osu!, this "small margin" can be much, much higher than 5% or 10%, comprising quite a big part of "Speed" and "Aim" score sections.
I don't want to give exact examples and numbers, but how big this {small margin} is? Should it be really called the {small margin}?
I understand that it can help in preventing people from farming PP from a long "lucky streams" on parts of very hard maps, but they would still need to deal with misses, which can wreck your overall score pretty badly.
It's just that small margin sounds as it really is small margin, while it doesn't necessarily need to be. Maybe we could get some more explanation on this matter, or the formula's sketch could be just more precise in wording? Even if something can be near negligible on high accuracy, it can be a major thing at lower ones.
If those parameters haven't changed since TP, the accuracy percentage determines a factor in the Speed and Aim values.Scarlet Evans wrote:
On Wiki page, accuracy is said to make up for just a small margin of the "Speed" and "Aim" PP score sections, but is this really true?
How would you define the "small margin"?
Maybe 0%-5%? Or 0%-10%? In pharmacology, sometimes even 0.1% chance for medicine to poison people can be unacceptable. However, in osu!, this "small margin" can be much, much higher than 5% or 10%, comprising quite a big part of "Speed" and "Aim" score sections.
I don't want to give exact examples and numbers, but how big this {small margin} is? Should it be really called the {small margin}?
I understand that it can help in preventing people from farming PP from a long "lucky streams" on parts of very hard maps, but they would still need to deal with misses, which can wreck your overall score pretty badly.
It's just that small margin sounds as it really is small margin, while it doesn't necessarily need to be. Maybe we could get some more explanation on this matter, or the formula's sketch could be just more precise in wording? Even if something can be near negligible on high accuracy, it can be a major thing at lower ones.
Accuracy Factor = 0.5 + (Acc%)/200%
So a 100% accuracy play has a factor of 100%, a 80% accuracy play has a factor of 90% (if there are no misses)
Not as easy as you're thinking, pressing K1 locks M1, so you must have a godlike technique to mash keyboard and mouse/tablet at the same time without having this issue.xxjesus1412fanx wrote:
snip
By now I reached the point where I would prefer ppv1 above ppv2.
ppv2 has an extreme influence on how osu! is received and played by new players(kind of including myself).
With some delay it also spread into maps so that we can "enjoy" some ridiculously stupid maps for tons of pp and close to 0 original value.
I'm sure Tom and peppy had the best intentions but the influence of pp on the development of the game looks very negative for me.
ppv2 has an extreme influence on how osu! is received and played by new players(kind of including myself).
With some delay it also spread into maps so that we can "enjoy" some ridiculously stupid maps for tons of pp and close to 0 original value.
I'm sure Tom and peppy had the best intentions but the influence of pp on the development of the game looks very negative for me.
I think you're projecting your percievement of enjoyment onto others
Has nothing to do with my perceivement of enjoyment. Whether it is the enjoyment to climb ranks or get good scores on harder and harder maps, ppv2 is not a necessity to enjoy either of these and it would work with ppv1 just as well.
There's no doubt that ppv2 has a severe influence on how the community and its content develops. That's what I dislike about it, not ppv2 itself.
There's no doubt that ppv2 has a severe influence on how the community and its content develops. That's what I dislike about it, not ppv2 itself.
But what's wrong with that? Why should people have to create content in some way that you won't that may not may not be for a specific purpose? In my opinion people can be free to create what they want for whatever reason. If someone makes a pp map, fine. If someone makes a map that doesn't give pp but is fun, fine.
If a map is only played for pp then abandoned, so what? If someone really actually likes a map, they'll play it regardless of pp or whatever and play it fairly often. And that doesn't need to be every or even the majority of maps.
There's also some opinion that maps that give pp are somehow inferior just because of this aspect, but I think that that's the complainers not able to divorce the actual map from the idea of pp.
If a map is only played for pp then abandoned, so what? If someone really actually likes a map, they'll play it regardless of pp or whatever and play it fairly often. And that doesn't need to be every or even the majority of maps.
There's also some opinion that maps that give pp are somehow inferior just because of this aspect, but I think that that's the complainers not able to divorce the actual map from the idea of pp.
GhostFrog wrote:
perceivementIt's perception, dammit
I'm sorry. I'll try to do better next time.GhostFrog wrote:
perceivementIt's perception, dammit
@Khelly: Players are preselecting maps based on the pp they give. Good maps might not get as much recognition due to a low reward while Tillerino keeps leading players into a one-way road of pp-maps. The problem is not that pp-maps are bad, the problem is that maps that don't follow a style that favors pp will see significantly less plays in favor of pp-maps for that reason.
On the other hand new players will grow up with exactly that maptype in mind and guess what happens if they map something - they will replicate exactly that type of map without ever seeing something else. Over time diversity in maps will die.
While this is more of a worst-case-scenario I'm 100% sure that this happens on a smaller scale and the longer it happens the larger the effect.
I lost PP and rank after I improved my combo + acc on a map. Peppy pls
E m i
Ehm after tryharding this map for a week I got only 188 pp from this play S3RL - Bass Slut (Original Mix) at Fort's light insane. It's a way too inappropriate considering it requies some 263 bpm single tapping/alternating and tricky patterns but with small spacing between them.
Just as skillful as it should be.
PP gain is based on accuracy, combo, and diff, but also on your ranking.
great job :^)
PP gain is based on accuracy, combo, and diff, but also on your ranking.
great job :^)