So when a normal player gets 92% then its a shitpass with shitty accuracy but when a pro gets 92% then thats good accuracy? Please make up your mind.
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Perhaps he's like me and gets gud accuracy on things that are relatively easier and then just gets 92-95% fcs on the harder things because we're not that great at acc in actuality?Mikakage wrote:
His accuracy is good, just not the best at these extremely fast maps. A 98.98% Muteki no Soldier or his 91.91% at FREEDMAN plays aren't something to laugh at.
for someone of his skill level,that accuracy on muteki is shit. i got fewer 100s back in 2013Mikakage wrote:
His accuracy is good, just not the best at these extremely fast maps. A 98.98% Muteki no Soldier or his 91.91% at FREEDMAN plays aren't something to laugh at.Khelly wrote:
How so?
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/606544
only when its something noone else can fc with high accHK_ wrote:
So when a normal player gets 92% then its a shitpass with shitty accuracy but when a pro gets 92% then thats good accuracy? Please make up your mind.
/e
or a lot of jesse's top ranks
I suggest that the star difficulty cannot understand these kind of sliders so make it understand them :
Here is my map as an example : Flux Pavillion - I Can't Stop - 01:18:813 (1,2,3) - thats the objects in the screenshots.
So it is 4.22 star but i named it extra because i used some big spaces on these kind of sliders. Just testplay it and think about it "Is it really 4.22 star map or its acctualy harder?"
Here is an good example check the star difficulty of lan's extra and play it do you still think it is 4.93 stars? : https://osu.ppy.sh/b/319661&m=0
screenshots
,
selected circle is 3
selected circle is 3
Here is my map as an example : Flux Pavillion - I Can't Stop - 01:18:813 (1,2,3) - thats the objects in the screenshots.
So it is 4.22 star but i named it extra because i used some big spaces on these kind of sliders. Just testplay it and think about it "Is it really 4.22 star map or its acctualy harder?"
Here is an good example check the star difficulty of lan's extra and play it do you still think it is 4.93 stars? : https://osu.ppy.sh/b/319661&m=0
Yeah, but that's kind of obvious cause stardiff measures how easy it is to SS.
As sliders have a huge timewindow to get a 300 on(250ms window on OD7.2), large jumps to sliders aren't worth as much cause it will think you have more time to jump, like 100ms more than for a jump to a circle.
As sliders have a huge timewindow to get a 300 on(250ms window on OD7.2), large jumps to sliders aren't worth as much cause it will think you have more time to jump, like 100ms more than for a jump to a circle.
Yes, we know the star difficulty algorithm messes up sliders. In a lot of maps you can replace sliders with circles located at their heads and have the star rating increase which makes 0 sense. Above post is wrong though afaik - if you change the OD on a map, its star difficulty doesn't change at all. Algorithm just treats sliders badly.
iirc it approximates the minimum distance you can use to complete the slider and considers it to all be part of the next jump or something like that
which is all sorts of bad if true
but don't trust me on it being true because i'm not sure if it is
iirc it approximates the minimum distance you can use to complete the slider and considers it to all be part of the next jump or something like that
which is all sorts of bad if true
but don't trust me on it being true because i'm not sure if it is
Maybe because the increase in time you get is proportional to the increase you get of a circle?GhostFrog wrote:
if you change the OD on a map, its star difficulty doesn't change at all.
Cause if it's proportional it can be measured by length and point of time without looking into OD while still giving sliders a disadvantage in rating.
Huh? If sliders were really underrated because of what you said, the difficulty of a map should go up when you increase OD. Difficulty algorithm just assume you're hitting everything at exactly the correct time.Endaris wrote:
Maybe because the increase in time you get is proportional to the increase you get of a circle?GhostFrog wrote:
if you change the OD on a map, its star difficulty doesn't change at all.
Cause if it's proportional it can be measured by length and point of time without looking into OD while still giving sliders a disadvantage in rating.
idk, I thought star rating was a measurement of how hard it is to SS a map.
I couldn't find an actual definition of what it does precisely.
I couldn't find an actual definition of what it does precisely.
This thread is WAY to long for me to read trough everything, so I will just straight forward ask my question.
Is there a way to check pp value of a particular play?
I would love it if we could see every score's pp value, or at least demand
to see the value of a particular play for a score that does not appear in the Top Ranks
on my profile page..
Is there a way to check pp value of a particular play?
I would love it if we could see every score's pp value, or at least demand
to see the value of a particular play for a score that does not appear in the Top Ranks
on my profile page..
If it's not on your profile page then no, you can't. Tillerino CAN give you an estimate for an fc.UltraRik wrote:
This thread is WAY to long for me to read trough everything, so I will just straight forward ask my question.
Is there a way to check pp value of a particular play?
I would love it if we could see every score's pp value, or at least demand
to see the value of a particular play for a score that does not appear in the Top Ranks
on my profile page..
Yeah, only if it's an FC, and then use !acc and input the acc you or they got. I don't know of any way to check for pp worth of non FC scores.
WOW that was a quick reply, thanks!Khelly wrote:
If it's not on your profile page then no, you can't. Tillerino CAN give you an estimate for an fc.
That's really sad, I wish peppy would implement a way for us to do that.. because I'm not sure
if tryharding with certain mods will be worth anything or a waste of time lol.
ALSO I strongly feel that DT scores are blown out of proportions in the pp system,
DT needs nerfing in terms of pp value. Farming DT is way too easy imo
If you're playing hards with DT, you're doing it wrong.
DT is by far the most commonly underrated mod in the game at a high level. I don't think it needs more nerfs right now. It's worth noting that you have almost no DT scores in your top performance, how do you know that it's "easy" to farm pp when next to none of your pp comes from DT. I think you should experiment more with mods and then come back to report.UltraRik wrote:
WOW that was a quick reply, thanks!Khelly wrote:
If it's not on your profile page then no, you can't. Tillerino CAN give you an estimate for an fc.
That's really sad, I wish peppy would implement a way for us to do that.. because I'm not sure
if tryharding with certain mods will be worth anything or a waste of time lol.
ALSO I strongly feel that DT scores are blown out of proportions in the pp system,
DT needs nerfing in terms of pp value. Farming DT is way too easy imo
Yeah, no, I never play DT since my FPS makes AR higher than 10 basically invisible.jesus1412 wrote:
DT is by far the most commonly underrated mod in the game at a high level. I don't think it needs more nerfs right now. It's worth noting that you have almost no DT scores in your top performance, how do you know that it's "easy" to farm pp when next to none of your pp comes from DT. I think you should experiment more with mods and then come back to report.
But I have a lot of friends who say that DT is easy to do, also A LOT of people have
DT / HDDT scores for their Top Ranks.
Jesse, what do you call "a high level"? 6.00*+? Top 100 player DT plays for 400+ pp?
DT gives way too much pp thats true but DT way too easy? Please...
DT a 4.5*+ map and you will understand.
DT a 4.5*+ map and you will understand.
Also this. Theres so many people judging mods/play styles/ whatever and calling them bad without even trying them out, seriously wtf people???jesus1412 wrote:
It's worth noting that you have almost no DT scores in your top performance, how do you know that it's "easy" to farm pp when next to none of your pp comes from DT.
Most people don't play at a high level, though and I think it's safe to say that at a medium level of play, DT is overrated.jesus1412 wrote:
DT is by far the most commonly underrated mod in the game at a high level
Personally, I have 8 200+pp scoresjesus1412 wrote:
how do you know that it's "easy" to farm pp when next to none of your pp comes from DT
I worked very hard for every single one of them
Except for the DT play, which was a random play that I put very little effort into and got on like the 3rd try
The same trend continues for what few DT plays I have in my top plays
I'm just doing theory work here, but DT at lower levels is (IMHO) overrated because of the OD increase. Meanwhile, at high levels, you're going to be playing HR or DT to gain PP, so the OD is high regardless of which mod you're playing, so it balances out, and DT stops being overrated because the alternative is on equal ground. I don't have any personal experience of playing at a high level like that, but I haven't found many people to disagree with my theory.
Jesus doesn't refer to DT maps as maps like Setting Sail or Daidai Genome, they play the same as HR maps with high resolution, slightly slower AR, and 2ms more leniency. A real DT specialty player does not benefit highly from playing maps like these. If someone can play these maps accurately, they can get pp from HR with just a little more practice, no doubt. The biggest advantage with DT is that it's not as black and white as with HR, where OD7 turns into OD9.8, because DT keeps the flow of the original mapping perfectly and only speeds it up. Playing slow maps accurately with DT is just a stepping stone into HR, it won't help you get faster for higher level DT. Basically, DT is only overrated at noob level play because HR has such a big jump on AR and OD for anything with decent aim or speed pp at it's base that they can't play it well, unlike DT which can hit that middle ground between the two. Only higher level players can feel benefits from HR, and for them, pretty much most things they can no mod can be played with HR as well. The real flaw is in the nature of the HR mod itself upon it's creation based on the way map stats are set now. I feel like I'm starting to talk aimlessly in circles so I'll stop, this isn't even pp feedback.
basically the stuff bad players do is easy for good players
thanks you for this revelation NixXSkate
thanks you for this revelation NixXSkate
8)xxjesus1412fanx wrote:
basically the stuff bad players do is easy for good players
thanks you for this revelation NixXSkate
AR>10 is a very high level of play that's usually not recommended for people around your rank, try ar8 DT maps and see how it goes. I'm not trying to attack you for not playing DT, I'm just saying that you should try it first and then report on it rather than "he said she said". There are maps that are very easy to gain pp from for every mod, just because more people can play DT does not mean that DT is overweighted. If you can find a way to nerf "pp" maps without nerfing the already underweighted maps then I would agree with it.UltraRik wrote:
Yeah, no, I never play DT since my FPS makes AR higher than 10 basically invisible.jesus1412 wrote:
DT is by far the most commonly underrated mod in the game at a high level. I don't think it needs more nerfs right now. It's worth noting that you have almost no DT scores in your top performance, how do you know that it's "easy" to farm pp when next to none of your pp comes from DT. I think you should experiment more with mods and then come back to report.
But I have a lot of friends who say that DT is easy to do, also A LOT of people have
DT / HDDT scores for their Top Ranks.
200+pp scores.Khelly wrote:
Jesse, what do you call "a high level"? 6.00*+? Top 100 player DT plays for 400+ pp?
This is a very reasonable answer however one overweighted map does not represent the entirety of DT. I'm glad that you're trying to point out specific things other than "DT is overweighted, nerf it". Specifics are what we need here. OD is a strange topic at the moment, a lot of people think it has too big of an influence, specifically in regard to the pp gain/loss from high/low acc FCs on the same map.Mahogany wrote:
Most people don't play at a high level, though and I think it's safe to say that at a medium level of play, DT is overrated.jesus1412 wrote:
DT is by far the most commonly underrated mod in the game at a high levelPersonally, I have 8 200+pp scoresjesus1412 wrote:
how do you know that it's "easy" to farm pp when next to none of your pp comes from DT
I worked very hard for every single one of them
Except for the DT play, which was a random play that I put very little effort into and got on like the 3rd try
The same trend continues for what few DT plays I have in my top plays
I'm just doing theory work here, but DT at lower levels is (IMHO) overrated because of the OD increase. Meanwhile, at high levels, you're going to be playing HR or DT to gain PP, so the OD is high regardless of which mod you're playing, so it balances out, and DT stops being overrated because the alternative is on equal ground. I don't have any personal experience of playing at a high level like that, but I haven't found many people to disagree with my theory.
This is MASSIVELY the issue, HR is DIFFERENT to nomod (which people are used to) while DT has a similar feel to nomod (essentially if you build your core skills, you're building your DT skills [aside from possibly your speed]).NixXSkate wrote:
Jesus doesn't refer to DT maps as maps like Setting Sail or Daidai Genome, they play the same as HR maps with high resolution, slightly slower AR, and 2ms more leniency. A real DT specialty player does not benefit highly from playing maps like these. If someone can play these maps accurately, they can get pp from HR with just a little more practice, no doubt. The biggest advantage with DT is that it's not as black and white as with HR, where OD7 turns into OD9.8, because DT keeps the flow of the original mapping perfectly and only speeds it up. Playing slow maps accurately with DT is just a stepping stone into HR, it won't help you get faster for higher level DT. Basically, DT is only overrated at noob level play because HR has such a big jump on AR and OD for anything with decent aim or speed pp at it's base that they can't play it well, unlike DT which can hit that middle ground between the two. Only higher level players can feel benefits from HR, and for them, pretty much most things they can no mod can be played with HR as well. The real flaw is in the nature of the HR mod itself upon it's creation based on the way map stats are set now. I feel like I'm starting to talk aimlessly in circles so I'll stop, this isn't even pp feedback.
Also final note, the reason I called the initial post out about this is that "nerf DT" doesn't help at all. The post literally said just to nerf all of DT which makes me want to throw rank 1 millions into a fire.
On a different topic, can we change how acc is handled. You shouldn't be punished for setting low acc scores, the system is based around not punishing you. Look at my acc over the last year:
Oh, Setting Sail is hardly the only map. I don't keep up-to-date with DT farm maps, but isn't this a similar situation with many other maps? I'm thinking this PP overweight applies to any AR8 OD8 map, and that's why maps such as several of Ztrot's pony maps are also considered good DT farm maps, along with Daidai genome (Though the difficulty spike at the end probably contributes a lot)jesus1412 wrote:
This is a very reasonable answer however one overweighted map does not represent the entirety of DT
...then again, you also have Koigokoro, and both of the insanes are only OD7, but it still manages to be one of the most popular DT farm maps.
I think it's safe to say, though, that the OD increase is one of the major contributing factors to DT overweight.
At a medium level, HR is a lot harder to play as well as DT is. If you're playing HR it's a lot harder to get a full combo on maps with an equivalent star rating with DT (IMHO), because of the higher AR, and (often) very low note density, compared to DT-ing the map, as well as the smaller CS.
OD is also a factor and I believe OD9.67 is far easier to get good acc on compared to OD10.
Technically, HR is still more valuable than DT at a mid level. Look at my top scores. I have a 201pp HDHR SS score on a 4.38* map, compared to the ~5* 99.66% 207PP score that my DT Setting Sail gave. The problem is that the HDHR score is all acc PP, and that score was worth like 150pp for 99%, which would be completely worthless to me, whereas a DT score would still be valuable at less-than-perfect accuracy. So unless you're playing HR perfectly, which the majority of people cannot do until they start being very high ranked, the PP gain potential is simply incomparable and you're better off playing nomod rather than HR for PP.
I don't know, I'm too focused on the OD increase, because that's the only thing that really stands out to me, personally...I don't know what else it could be. In my experience, I've always found high OD to be OP, but at the same time I've always been an accuracy whore.
It'll be good to get others' inputs on this, but I've thought about this for a long time and this is my personal conclusion.
Also, I would agree with changing how acc is handled. I feel that PP is too weighted towards 99%+ scores, personally. I'd like there to be a more even spread between 97%-100%
As there are many HR farm maps out there, basically almost all MIIRO TV Size Insane and Extra difficulties are good HR farm maps. There are way more short maps with huge jumps, few triples and easy streams (like Daisy, Univer Page, Artcore Jinja, Diamond...) to farm with HR than there are with DT.Mahogany wrote:
Oh, Setting Sail is hardly the only map. I don't keep up-to-date with DT farm maps, but isn't this a similar situation with many other maps? I'm thinking this PP overweight applies to any AR8 OD8 map, and that's why maps such as several of Ztrot's pony maps are also considered good DT farm maps, along with Daidai genome (Though the difficulty spike at the end probably contributes a lot)
Same with HR assuming you can get good acc. And Koigokoro is a map that is worth quite a bit and you're not so harshly penalized for getting a so-so accuracy, different from Daidai Genome because OD8 becomes very close to OD10 with DT.Mahogany wrote:
...then again, you also have Koigokoro, and both of the insanes are only OD7, but it still manages to be one of the most popular DT farm maps.
I think it's safe to say, though, that the OD increase is one of the major contributing factors to DT overweight.
Like you said. In your opinion, probably because of your skillset. Using the example bellow:Mahogany wrote:
At a medium level, HR is a lot harder to play as well as DT is. If you're playing HR it's a lot harder to get a full combo on maps with an equivalent star rating with DT (IMHO), because of the higher AR, and (often) very low note density, compared to DT-ing the map, as well as the smaller CS.
OD is also a factor and I believe OD9.67 is far easier to get good acc on compared to OD10.
First, with HR it becomes a 4.68 star map.Mahogany wrote:
Technically, HR is still more valuable than DT at a mid level. Look at my top scores. I have a 201pp HDHR SS score on a 4.38* map, compared to the ~5* 99.66% 207PP score that my DT Setting Sail gave. The problem is that the HDHR score is all acc PP, and that score was worth like 150pp for 99%, which would be completely worthless to me, whereas a DT score would still be valuable at less-than-perfect accuracy. So unless you're playing HR perfectly, which the majority of people cannot do until they start being very high ranked, the PP gain potential is simply incomparable and you're better off playing nomod rather than HR for PP.
Notice something you're saying in this. DT is still valuable even without less than perfect accuracy because it is harder to play assuming you can read both maps properly, it got harder patterns and jumps than Fjarlaegur, BPM is irrelevant in both. It's just that HR is harder for most players because they aren't used to play the circle size and AR10. It's fair that Fjarlaegur can only be compared to it because of the accuracy boost, actually, it is overrated if you look directly at the heart of the matter because you can make a map considerably easier worth almost as much when both maps have only a 0.5 ms timing window difference.
It is still hilarious that a single one hundred is worth 12 pp in this and 8 pp in Setting Sail. A 0.5 ms timing window difference = 4 pp difference in a longer map. Whatever... this just shows how much OD is broken.
In all these we are talking about simple maps, like most farm maps, that are relatively easy to play and don't actually have what makes both mods harder at the highest levels: streams. In DT it's high BPM streams and in HR is keeping accuracy on long streams. And keeping accuracy in a <200 BPM stream is much easier than playing 240+ BPM in general.
Like Jesse said, many (including myself) aren't very satisfied with how accuracy is handled. The way it scales at higher ODs is just ridiculous to the point that getting a 98.5% score feels like crap when looking at something just 1% above, the difference is huge even when there is a mere 0.5 ms difference in the timing window.Mahogany wrote:
I don't know, I'm too focused on the OD increase, because that's the only thing that really stands out to me, personally...I don't know what else it could be. In my experience, I've always found high OD to be OP, but at the same time I've always been an accuracy whore.
It'll be good to get others' inputs on this, but I've thought about this for a long time and this is my personal conclusion.
Also, I would agree with changing how acc is handled. I feel that PP is too weighted towards 99%+ scores, personally. I'd like there to be a more even spread between 97%-100%
This and the balance between maps with simple difficulty spikes vs constant difficulty or high BPM streams, specially OD8 jump maps. For firetruck sake, Daidai Genome is worth almost as much as Magica with around two thirds the object count, and way more than Netoge Haijin Sprechchor. Just a glance at the leaderboards tells us which ones are harder.
PS - I'm not saying all streams are underrated, we all know spaced streams are all the rage when making good farm maps, they don't even need to be all that spaced to be worth lots compared to more condensed but way faster streams.
Good post, man.
At a medium level of play, DT is just...playing a normal fast map. With less complicated patterns and it's somewhat harder to get good acc. Playing HR at that level is a world of difference due to several fundamental changes.
[
Acc PP is just too prone to be overrated overall, I think.
Personally, I believe that it's a lot harder to get good acc with HR than with DT.Mikakage wrote:
Same with HR assuming you can get good acc.
That's very true, I'm not looking at this very objectively TBH, purely speaking from my experiences.Mikakage wrote:
probably because of your skillset
I agree with this.Mikakage wrote:
HR is harder for most players because they aren't used to play the circle size and AR10
At a medium level of play, DT is just...playing a normal fast map. With less complicated patterns and it's somewhat harder to get good acc. Playing HR at that level is a world of difference due to several fundamental changes.
Mikakage wrote:
It is still hilarious that a single one hundred is worth 12 pp in this and 8 pp in Setting Sail. A 0.5 ms timing window difference = 4 pp difference in a longer map. Whatever... this just shows how much OD is broken.
I completely agree.Mikakage wrote:
Like Jesse said, many (including myself) aren't very satisfied with how accuracy is handled. The way it scales at higher ODs is just ridiculous to the point that getting a 98.5% score feels like crap when looking at something just 1% above, the difference is huge even when there is a mere 0.5 ms difference in the timing window.
[
Acc PP is just too prone to be overrated overall, I think.
acc should be a function of map complexity, not just of map length and od. too bad there dont seem to be any ways to do that.
Keeping acc in <200 bpm streams is way harder than playing 240+ bpm wtf I'm ruined
I like how pp gains go up exponentially as you approach SS because it reflects how much harder it is to go from 98 to 99 than 95 to 98 etc. It is a lot easier to go from 20x100 to 10x100 than 10x to 5x, and I like how it reflects that
I like how pp gains go up exponentially as you approach SS because it reflects how much harder it is to go from 98 to 99 than 95 to 98 etc. It is a lot easier to go from 20x100 to 10x100 than 10x to 5x, and I like how it reflects that
E m i
Except on long maps, ayy those 160pp marathon SSesKhelly wrote:
Keeping acc in <200 bpm streams is way harder than playing 240+ bpm wtf I'm ruined
I like how pp gains go up exponentially as you approach SS because it reflects how much harder it is to go from 98 to 99 than 95 to 98 etc. It is a lot easier to go from 20x100 to 10x100 than 10x to 5x, and I like how it reflects that
What combo is long?
Idk man I'm pretty sure most people get better acc on <200bpm streams than they do on mendes dt.Khelly wrote:
Keeping acc in <200 bpm streams is way harder than playing 240+ bpm wtf I'm ruined
The second one is not specific enough about what type of 240+ bpm.jesus1412 wrote:
Idk man I'm pretty sure most people get better acc on <200bpm streams than they do on mendes dt.Khelly wrote:
Keeping acc in <200 bpm streams is way harder than playing 240+ bpm wtf I'm ruined
Yeah, it's harder, but it isn't enough to justify the difference for a mere 0.5 ms timing window. Seriously, this is adding 0.25 ms of lenience for hitting a note earlier/later, yet the pp value difference is a huge disparity.Khelly wrote:
Keeping acc in <200 bpm streams is way harder than playing 240+ bpm wtf I'm ruined
I like how pp gains go up exponentially as you approach SS because it reflects how much harder it is to go from 98 to 99 than 95 to 98 etc. It is a lot easier to go from 20x100 to 10x100 than 10x to 5x, and I like how it reflects that
I said streams, if you are considering only 11 notes or so bursts as the entirety of streams in the game, that's cute. But even these are hard to play for most of the game population and I believe this majority will have more success at keeping a good accuracy at an easy to aim 170~180 bpm stream with HR than at an AR9.6~10.3 DT over 240 BPM.Khelly wrote:
The second one is not specific enough about what type of 240+ bpm.
Actually, no, you said under 200 bpm stream and then 240+ in general which is encompassing everything; you should've said 240 bpm stream because you shofted the focus to playing dt in general.
Khelly wrote:
Actually, no, you said under 200 bpm stream and then 240+ in general which is encompassing everything; you should've said 240 bpm stream because you shofted the focus to playing dt in general.
Mikakage wrote:
In all these we are talking about simple maps, like most farm maps, that are relatively easy to play and don't actually have what makes both mods harder at the highest levels: streams. In DT it's high BPM streams and in HR is keeping accuracy on long streams. And keeping accuracy in a <200 BPM stream is much easier than playing 240+ BPM in general.
The meaning of your sentence changed when you added "in general" even if the previous sentence was about streams.
You should have either left it out or said "240+ bpm streams in general" and I wouldn't have misinterpreted you.
You should have either left it out or said "240+ bpm streams in general" and I wouldn't have misinterpreted you.
which bpm is easier to acc is too subjective
E m i
Still confused by the pp-System. Just played hard/advanced map. First try full combo, map rank #153 and acc 97.5% and lost 70 global ranks?
I lose rank all the time I play hard maps full combo and 96+ acc. Why is this happening. (I play almost daily)
I lose rank all the time I play hard maps full combo and 96+ acc. Why is this happening. (I play almost daily)
I hope you're aware that if you're rank 50000 and you get -50 ranks you'll be 49950 after it.DahakaMVl wrote:
Still confused by the pp-System. Just played hard/advanced map. First try full combo, map rank #153 and acc 97.5% and lost 70 global ranks?
I lose rank all the time I play hard maps full combo and 96+ acc. Why is this happening. (I play almost daily)
I obviously meant I got ranked worse.Endaris wrote:
I hope you're aware that if you're rank 50000 and you get -50 ranks you'll be 49950 after it.DahakaMVl wrote:
Still confused by the pp-System. Just played hard/advanced map. First try full combo, map rank #153 and acc 97.5% and lost 70 global ranks?
I lose rank all the time I play hard maps full combo and 96+ acc. Why is this happening. (I play almost daily)
other people play the game aswell, while you werent playing they passed you in rank but yours didnt get updated until you set a new score.
damn i should really make a macro for that response.
damn i should really make a macro for that response.
Just like for oh so many others :^)silmarilen wrote:
other people play the game aswell, while you werent playing they passed you in rank but yours didnt get updated until you set a new score.
damn i should really make a macro for that response.
Just pay attention to your PP rather than your rank omg people pls
But pp is an arbitrary number with no meaning behind itMahogany wrote:
Just pay attention to your PP rather than your rank omg people pls
But the situation is someone thinking he's losing ranks for making new plays when infact his pp is increasing but not fast enough to offset the delay.GoldenWolf wrote:
But pp is an arbitrary number with no meaning behind itMahogany wrote:
Just pay attention to your PP rather than your rank omg people pls
Tooth is telling him to pay attention to his pp so that the person can know that their play actually gained them something and was not worthless.
Please pay attention to the conversation rather than trying to promote your agenda.
*score worth less than 1 pp*
"i didnt gain any pp, is the system broken?"
"i didnt gain any pp, is the system broken?"
That already happens though, but I just see the ranks complaint happen a lot more.
Why hello there everyone!
Yes I indeed came here to rant about how it's possbile to lose rank although I gained more acc/points on a map
After reading the latest comments, a lot of what I had in my mind has been answered so... thank you for that!
But... if it meanwhile is a common thing that players only happen to see their rank dropping after playing a map, wouldn't it be neat if we could see the gain of pp as welll when finishing a beatmap? -or lose of course if it's decreasing.
Greets~
Yes I indeed came here to rant about how it's possbile to lose rank although I gained more acc/points on a map
After reading the latest comments, a lot of what I had in my mind has been answered so... thank you for that!
But... if it meanwhile is a common thing that players only happen to see their rank dropping after playing a map, wouldn't it be neat if we could see the gain of pp as welll when finishing a beatmap? -or lose of course if it's decreasing.
Greets~
There was an approved feature request asking for this from a few years ago (iirc.)Kim wrote:
Why hello there everyone!
Yes I indeed came here to rant about how it's possbile to lose rank although I gained more acc/points on a map
After reading the latest comments, a lot of what I had in my mind has been answered so... thank you for that!
But... if it meanwhile is a common thing that players only happen to see their rank dropping after playing a map, wouldn't it be neat if we could see the gain of pp as welll when finishing a beatmap? -or lose of course if it's decreasing.
Greets~
Thanks for the answer!- [ U z z I ] - wrote:
There was an approved feature request asking for this from a few years ago (iirc.)
Do you know what had happened to the request?
I came with this crappy idea. idk if it's already suggested or not.
What if pp calculates the score instead of highest combo?
While a FC will remain the same the non FC will be less punishing
for example
The max combo is 1000 1000x is the max score (FC)
If you were to get 500x combo 2 times (combo broken in the middle of the map) the current system would only count the highest combo which is 500x
But with the score 500x combo 2 times would be worth more score and it might be equal to that of higher combo counts (like 700x or something Idk how to math) and you get 700x combo of pp
This way a choke in the middle of the map will be less depressing.
And I have no clue about this kind of this stuff so feel free to correct my stupidness.
What if pp calculates the score instead of highest combo?
While a FC will remain the same the non FC will be less punishing
for example
The max combo is 1000 1000x is the max score (FC)
If you were to get 500x combo 2 times (combo broken in the middle of the map) the current system would only count the highest combo which is 500x
But with the score 500x combo 2 times would be worth more score and it might be equal to that of higher combo counts (like 700x or something Idk how to math) and you get 700x combo of pp
This way a choke in the middle of the map will be less depressing.
And I have no clue about this kind of this stuff so feel free to correct my stupidness.
If you calculate score then 100s near the end of a long combo will be more devastating than at the beginning.
I'm not sure, but I just have a kind of complaint from too imcomplete ranks with extremely high accuracy and high OD. I'm not right that pp from accuracy should be completely independant from maximun combo lenght. For an example, I know of someone that has Our Stolen Theory - United (L.A.O.S Remix) with 99.47% accuracy but only 1530's maximun combo.
Using tillerino I find that this rank is as worth as the 96.50% FC. And we can see this fact happening:
a) 1530/2275 combo at 99.47% accuracy +6 misses is worth as 270 pp
b) 2275/2275 combo at 96.50% accuracy is aswell worth as 270 pp
What I'm seing from there?
I have nothing againist high accuracy players, but come on, I would find rasonable if you reward these that can complete maps or are close to complete these maps. On an OWC match the 96.50% is worth as a lot more of score and more useful for your country than that 99.47% with several misses but 99.47% accuracy.
If you find that is an issue aswell, I think I have a rasonable solution for this:
a) guess that FC/FC has an accuracy value of 1.00 times the maximun pp from accuracy.
b) now imagine if by using square root of 1/2 of FC to give it a 0.7071... times the maximun pp from accuracy.
c) this would mean that his close to 2/3's of combo is wort h as 0.8160 times the total pp from accuracy, that's over 80% all pp from accuracy.
Because ... honestly... this only happens on OD8 maps or higher that have too many circles, that accuracy is the only mean of the rank, meanwhile FC is worthless compared to extreme accuracy tries with several misses.
Using tillerino I find that this rank is as worth as the 96.50% FC. And we can see this fact happening:
a) 1530/2275 combo at 99.47% accuracy +6 misses is worth as 270 pp
b) 2275/2275 combo at 96.50% accuracy is aswell worth as 270 pp
What I'm seing from there?
I have nothing againist high accuracy players, but come on, I would find rasonable if you reward these that can complete maps or are close to complete these maps. On an OWC match the 96.50% is worth as a lot more of score and more useful for your country than that 99.47% with several misses but 99.47% accuracy.
If you find that is an issue aswell, I think I have a rasonable solution for this:
a) guess that FC/FC has an accuracy value of 1.00 times the maximun pp from accuracy.
b) now imagine if by using square root of 1/2 of FC to give it a 0.7071... times the maximun pp from accuracy.
c) this would mean that his close to 2/3's of combo is wort h as 0.8160 times the total pp from accuracy, that's over 80% all pp from accuracy.
Because ... honestly... this only happens on OD8 maps or higher that have too many circles, that accuracy is the only mean of the rank, meanwhile FC is worthless compared to extreme accuracy tries with several misses.
multiplayer looks at score, the whole reason why pp was implemented in the first place was because score was not a good measurement of skill. let's not go back in time.ReynBolt wrote:
What I'm seing from there?
I have nothing againist high accuracy players, but come on, I would find rasonable if you reward these that can complete maps or are close to complete these maps. On an OWC match the 96.50% is worth as a lot more of score and more useful for your country than that 99.47% with several misses but 99.47% accuracy.
owc looks at something completely different than what pp does, using what's happening there as any indication of how much pp a map should give is just not logical.
99.47% is on a whole different level of skill than 96.50%, i think it's more than reasonable that a non-fc 99.47% would give the same pp as an fc 96.50%.
combo should not be used for determining how much accuracy pp you get because the two things are unrelated. accuracy looks at how accurate you are by time, while combo looks at how accurate you are by position.
He got a lot of pp cause his combo was still decently high. Combo has a linear scaling iirc therefore he already got a decent amount of combo pp.
If he got 3 750 Combos your pp would be a lot lower. Misses are also detrimental for pp but with only 2 of them on such a long map it doesn't have a huge impact.
The question in terms of pp is also:
How likely is the 96,5% player to replicate the FC? He isn't cause he obviously show inconsistency on various spots that will probably cause him to miss on such a long map. The 99,47% player is highly consistent so he should have no problems to get a play of similar quality without much effort even though he might choke on a different spot than before. Therefore the pp awarded seem fair and square for me.
If he got 3 750 Combos your pp would be a lot lower. Misses are also detrimental for pp but with only 2 of them on such a long map it doesn't have a huge impact.
The question in terms of pp is also:
How likely is the 96,5% player to replicate the FC? He isn't cause he obviously show inconsistency on various spots that will probably cause him to miss on such a long map. The 99,47% player is highly consistent so he should have no problems to get a play of similar quality without much effort even though he might choke on a different spot than before. Therefore the pp awarded seem fair and square for me.
I don't think you can call 96.5% inconsistant - some people are just worse at acc.
There's no point trying to balance aim/speed/acc pp anymore. It's the best it's going to get for a while. When aim/speed/acc are split apart again we can begin to find (and fix) flaws.
Endaris wrote:
He got a lot of pp cause his combo was still decently high. Combo has a linear scaling iirc therefore he already got a decent amount of combo pp.
If he got 3 750 Combos your pp would be a lot lower. Misses are also detrimental for pp but with only 2 of them on such a long map it doesn't have a huge impact.
The question in terms of pp is also:
How likely is the 96,5% player to replicate the FC? He isn't cause he obviously show inconsistency on various spots that will probably cause him to miss on such a long map. The 99,47% player is highly consistent so he should have no problems to get a play of similar quality without much effort even though he might choke on a different spot than before. Therefore the pp awarded seem fair and square for me.
I know players that are very consistent in combo but not in accuracy. These oftenly shine on multiplayers more than these that have massive accuracy but at missing oftenly. You can't judge anyone's constancy just because of the accuracy he has got because there are 99% players that lose combo every 300 combo on a 5.25 stars maps but they're still doing them with 99% accuracy; apart there are lucky accuracy tries aswell; people can get lucky accuracy alike at combo and I think a good rank should be someting between good accuracy and good combo.
For an example, you can rush for FC on maps like Rungran - d.m.c (Band Ver.) [Insane] by just doing a 88.50% F ; this time the more accuracy you have on that map the more equilibrated is the rank in terms of pp.
Rungran - d.m.c (Band Ver.) [Insane] specifications:
bpm: 180 ; stars 5.39 ; AR9 CS4 OD7, 341 circles & 76 circles.
When you're 2000 pp rank player and then you do that FC you gain between 40 and 60 pp commonly with a 88-91% FC, but as you retry and retry again the map, you need to get likely +2-3% acc to get around 3-4 pp considering it's weighted at 100% because being your first rank. Compared to DT plays in which you can get up to 7-15 pp's for only 1% whole accuracy in comparation.
The fact is, there are maps that are OP from FC (mainly OD7 maps with too much stars) and others that scale too much from accuracy and these "free accuracy farm maps" in which the more accuracy you gain from there the more overrated the rank is (happens at OD9-OD9.67 DT's maps between 100-190 pp level ranks). And if you compare these from nomod or HR similar pp level play you will find these 2 are both harder than the DT one.
so this means:
case a) : the more accuracy you do on that map, the more equilibrated is in terms of pp and the less overrated is.
case b) : the more accurady you get from that map, the more overrated you make that rank.
So what is your issue?
Might be the case that you can get better acc than you usually would but if getting high acc is so easy why wouldn't you just get high acc?
Imo it's fair and square that accuracy has a decent value in a rhythm game and when someone whose strength is accuracy and someone whose strength is holding combo get the same award I find that pretty much legit. Especially since your "drop at every 300 combo" doesn't apply to the initial example you gave.
Also why the hell are you suddenly talking about DT? This was never part of the discussion before. Especially since you seem to be happily abusing this acc-festival.
88% FCs are kind of rare by the way as this acc is so low that it always involves shaky control. I don't see a 2k pp player FC that.
Might be the case that you can get better acc than you usually would but if getting high acc is so easy why wouldn't you just get high acc?
Imo it's fair and square that accuracy has a decent value in a rhythm game and when someone whose strength is accuracy and someone whose strength is holding combo get the same award I find that pretty much legit. Especially since your "drop at every 300 combo" doesn't apply to the initial example you gave.
Also why the hell are you suddenly talking about DT? This was never part of the discussion before. Especially since you seem to be happily abusing this acc-festival.
88% FCs are kind of rare by the way as this acc is so low that it always involves shaky control. I don't see a 2k pp player FC that.
Ehm... you're right, there was no reasson to mention about DT topic... but I guess we can continue about the powerful nomod FC's that are oftenly seen in low pp's players. well I've seen cases of players at 1600 global pp doing a 98 pp rank at rungran with around 400's combo and some 2000-2400 pp friends of mine that has rungran aswell with 89-92% FC accuracy. Rungran is a commonly pp'ed map at 1600-2600 pp players. So yes, I have proofs that players of a wide range can do this map 
You have these 3 cases of friends of mine that when they were 1900-2100 pp they made dmc rungran FC with A and one that at 1679 had almost done FC on it. So I would not underrate the power of low pp players that with retries can rank a 550's combo on an extra map that is built mainly on long streams. Long streams map combo are practically shorter in time lenght than a map built of 550 combos out of jumps. The shorter a map is, the more tryhardable is, that is why I know some 2000 pp players can even FC dmc rungran if they tryhard it enough.
A similar case happens with 07th Expansion - rog-unlimitation in which some players at 2800-3300 pp can do aswell a 88-91% FC on there gaining an almost 200 pp rank.
Both of these maps are OD7 wtih high stars from streams with spacing, and both are commonly done by unexpectively low pp players.
So there is another map in which low acc FC is common and grants more than decent pp. Well yes I can't do this second one to be honest, but I see this commonly on people's best performance. Seems that a large group of people have no real problems about doing long streams wtih that spacing with CS3, I'm unsure on what to think about the pp efficiency of that map ... it's nothing easy but it's too commonly seen even on people at below 3000 pp, because the 2 friends of mine did rog unlimitation when they were a bit smaller than 3000 pp.
So ... if its true that 99% acc high OD is the most common way to have best perforamnces, it's commonly seen that some people don't need accuracy at all to make their ranks and if you expect that skill is lineally relationated to accuracy you're wrong. Likely we see DT or nomod maps that we see too often on people's best performance with 99% acc there are a group of low acc FC maps that we can see sometimes aswell and that MANY people have complaints againist these maps aswell, mostly talking about dmc rungran in which some people hates the much pp it gives to themselves.
But yes, this kind of player is not rare, but we have to admit that DT high accuracy players are most common for a group of reassons that some people on this topic have already talked about this.
SPOILER
Players profiles that pp'ed dmc rungran
92.24% acc B of 400's combo [1679 pp player]
91.13% acc A FC [2267 pp player]
91.49% acc A FC [2483 pp player]
92.24% acc B of 400's combo [1679 pp player]
91.13% acc A FC [2267 pp player]
91.49% acc A FC [2483 pp player]
You have these 3 cases of friends of mine that when they were 1900-2100 pp they made dmc rungran FC with A and one that at 1679 had almost done FC on it. So I would not underrate the power of low pp players that with retries can rank a 550's combo on an extra map that is built mainly on long streams. Long streams map combo are practically shorter in time lenght than a map built of 550 combos out of jumps. The shorter a map is, the more tryhardable is, that is why I know some 2000 pp players can even FC dmc rungran if they tryhard it enough.
A similar case happens with 07th Expansion - rog-unlimitation in which some players at 2800-3300 pp can do aswell a 88-91% FC on there gaining an almost 200 pp rank.
Both of these maps are OD7 wtih high stars from streams with spacing, and both are commonly done by unexpectively low pp players.
So there is another map in which low acc FC is common and grants more than decent pp. Well yes I can't do this second one to be honest, but I see this commonly on people's best performance. Seems that a large group of people have no real problems about doing long streams wtih that spacing with CS3, I'm unsure on what to think about the pp efficiency of that map ... it's nothing easy but it's too commonly seen even on people at below 3000 pp, because the 2 friends of mine did rog unlimitation when they were a bit smaller than 3000 pp.
So ... if its true that 99% acc high OD is the most common way to have best perforamnces, it's commonly seen that some people don't need accuracy at all to make their ranks and if you expect that skill is lineally relationated to accuracy you're wrong. Likely we see DT or nomod maps that we see too often on people's best performance with 99% acc there are a group of low acc FC maps that we can see sometimes aswell and that MANY people have complaints againist these maps aswell, mostly talking about dmc rungran in which some people hates the much pp it gives to themselves.
But yes, this kind of player is not rare, but we have to admit that DT high accuracy players are most common for a group of reassons that some people on this topic have already talked about this.
But low-acc FCs give a decent award just like you stated with two examples.
Are they underrewarded? I think not.
OD has an exponential scaling but a scaling that just ENDS at some point. So the difference in accuracy has to be huge to make up a huge difference in combo which seems fair for me.
Are they underrewarded? I think not.
OD has an exponential scaling but a scaling that just ENDS at some point. So the difference in accuracy has to be huge to make up a huge difference in combo which seems fair for me.
I would say that they are not underrated on some nomod maps, mostly acesible at OD7 maps with high spaced streams, but they are rarely seen on other kind of maps.
The thing that I do not like is that accuracy is completely independant of map's level. This makes some weird exceptions doing unexpected high pp, more than maps with 1 more whole star at SS. Don Omar ft. Lucenzo - Danza Kuduro [Experto] is a map that with DT has OD9.67 and 4.25 stars ... a very strange case of a map with too low stars but such OD. FOLiACETATE - Heterochromia Iridis [Another] is an difficult another map of 223 bpm streams, anoying reversals and theorical star level of 5.25 stars but OD7.
Well the case is this:
Case a) Don Omar ft. Lucenzo - Danza Kuduro [Experto] +DT
has 4.25 stars, 195 bpm, AR9.67, OD9.67 & CS4, contains 223 circles & 175 sliders
Case b) FOLiACETATE - Heterochromia Iridis [Another]
has 5.25 stars, 223 bpm, AR9, OD7 & CS4, contains 361 circles & 213 sliders
maps pp ranges by tillerino (because too much lag I can't upload images this time)
For case a)
95% = 82 pp
98% = 117 pp
99% = 143 pp
100% = 185 pp
For case b)
95% = 143 pp
98% = 156 pp
99% = 165 pp
100% = 178 pp
Observations:
1.- Meanwhile a) value is "trash" from FC, it's massive OD scaling ends beating b) which is a much harder map overall.
2.- map a) gives as much pp at 99% acc as map b) but with 95% acc.
3.- Elements distribution (again)
a) contains 223 circles & 175 sliders
b) contains 361 circles & 213 sliders
Toughts
Well, map b) is very bitch to FC because anoying reversals, unconfortable positions at some circles and it is even difficult to FC for players over 4500 pp. map a) is just hard to accurate, any player that has enough aim to FC an Hard +DT can do map a) with FC and with retries can gradually rise his accuracy on map a). Result is that a much more wide range of players (even ME! at 4436 pp) can gain pp from this 4.2 stars map. Meanwhile players of even higher rank than mine have real difficulties to FC map b) for a worthless amount of pp.
That's how OD is OVERRATED (more than just "accuracy is op"). I have nothing more to say.
The thing that I do not like is that accuracy is completely independant of map's level. This makes some weird exceptions doing unexpected high pp, more than maps with 1 more whole star at SS. Don Omar ft. Lucenzo - Danza Kuduro [Experto] is a map that with DT has OD9.67 and 4.25 stars ... a very strange case of a map with too low stars but such OD. FOLiACETATE - Heterochromia Iridis [Another] is an difficult another map of 223 bpm streams, anoying reversals and theorical star level of 5.25 stars but OD7.
Well the case is this:
Case a) Don Omar ft. Lucenzo - Danza Kuduro [Experto] +DT
has 4.25 stars, 195 bpm, AR9.67, OD9.67 & CS4, contains 223 circles & 175 sliders
Case b) FOLiACETATE - Heterochromia Iridis [Another]
has 5.25 stars, 223 bpm, AR9, OD7 & CS4, contains 361 circles & 213 sliders
maps pp ranges by tillerino (because too much lag I can't upload images this time)
For case a)
95% = 82 pp
98% = 117 pp
99% = 143 pp
100% = 185 pp
For case b)
95% = 143 pp
98% = 156 pp
99% = 165 pp
100% = 178 pp
Observations:
1.- Meanwhile a) value is "trash" from FC, it's massive OD scaling ends beating b) which is a much harder map overall.
2.- map a) gives as much pp at 99% acc as map b) but with 95% acc.
3.- Elements distribution (again)
a) contains 223 circles & 175 sliders
b) contains 361 circles & 213 sliders
Toughts
Well, map b) is very bitch to FC because anoying reversals, unconfortable positions at some circles and it is even difficult to FC for players over 4500 pp. map a) is just hard to accurate, any player that has enough aim to FC an Hard +DT can do map a) with FC and with retries can gradually rise his accuracy on map a). Result is that a much more wide range of players (even ME! at 4436 pp) can gain pp from this 4.2 stars map. Meanwhile players of even higher rank than mine have real difficulties to FC map b) for a worthless amount of pp.
That's how OD is OVERRATED (more than just "accuracy is op"). I have nothing more to say.
The actual mapdesign and complexity is much more important.
I also thought we weren't talking about DT?
Anyway, enjoy SSing this for massive 286pp:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/290040
I also thought we weren't talking about DT?
Anyway, enjoy SSing this for massive 286pp:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/290040
E m i
argggg 138 bpm streams is too hard!!! ... seriusly the more far to 185-225 bpm the harder is it to me!!! (regardless if it's slower or faster than the given range)Endaris wrote:
The actual mapdesign and complexity is much more important.
I also thought we weren't talking about DT?
Anyway, enjoy SSing this for massive 286pp:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/290040
ReynBolt wrote:
The thing that I do not like is that accuracy is completely independant of map's level.
silmarilen wrote:
acc should be a function of map complexity, not just of map length and od. too bad there dont seem to be any ways to do that.
Please don't act like the bpm is your problem. It's the technical complexity and high OD that keeps you from getting anything close to good acc on it.ReynBolt wrote:
argggg 138 bpm streams is too hard!!! ... seriusly the more far to 185-225 bpm the harder is it to me!!! (regardless if it's slower or faster than the given range)Endaris wrote:
The actual mapdesign and complexity is much more important.
I also thought we weren't talking about DT?
Anyway, enjoy SSing this for massive 286pp:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/290040
> thelewa did 99%Endaris wrote:
The actual mapdesign and complexity is much more important.
I also thought we weren't talking about DT?
Anyway, enjoy SSing this for massive 286pp:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/290040
I pass.
Short: Can the PP algorhythm spot Sliders which are hit too early (100) but still give full points (300) and take that in consideration when PP'ing?
I was wondering about a few things today and wanted to ask following;
- Is the PP calculated with the replay sent to the server or "just the score"?
- In case of replay, does the replay save the Sliderhits in a value which is usable for the PP algorhythm (ex. Slider gave 300, but the initial hit was in the 100 area (xy ms off the actual timing)?
If yes, I was wondering if it'd be able to take "300 Sliders with a hit on 100/50 window" in consideration and adjust the PP with that.
From time to time I see post about Sliders being to easy as theyre a guaranteed 300. ppy wont change this as it's just too big of a deal, it'd change too much in all the (leaderboard-)scores we have now. Can the PP algorhythm spot these faulty 100 Sliders?
Because I think that that'd kinda solve the problem to some extend, as people dont really care about their actual scores, but rather about their PP. That's just my view though.
I was wondering about a few things today and wanted to ask following;
- Is the PP calculated with the replay sent to the server or "just the score"?
- In case of replay, does the replay save the Sliderhits in a value which is usable for the PP algorhythm (ex. Slider gave 300, but the initial hit was in the 100 area (xy ms off the actual timing)?
If yes, I was wondering if it'd be able to take "300 Sliders with a hit on 100/50 window" in consideration and adjust the PP with that.
From time to time I see post about Sliders being to easy as theyre a guaranteed 300. ppy wont change this as it's just too big of a deal, it'd change too much in all the (leaderboard-)scores we have now. Can the PP algorhythm spot these faulty 100 Sliders?
Because I think that that'd kinda solve the problem to some extend, as people dont really care about their actual scores, but rather about their PP. That's just my view though.
Replay data isn't used, no. Just combo, accuracy, and 300s/100s/50s/misses. Even if pp could be calculated based off of replay data for new scores (and that would significantly increase the time required for calculation, which is already pretty long because of the ridiculous number of scores in existence), replay data isn't saved for current scores that aren't top x, so it couldn't be applied retroactively.
I see, that kills the idea then. Thanks for the answer
I think that was the longest time that this thread hasn't been posted in since it was made.
I broke it, rip wrjesus1412 wrote:
I think that was the longest time that this thread hasn't been posted in since it was made.
dead game
I wish pp scoring was acc based like mania or at least acc based pp and with some combo bonus pp. never gonna happen :{
That would be quite retarded, combo > all.KukiMonster wrote:
I wish pp scoring was acc based like mania or at least acc based pp and with some combo bonus pp. never gonna happen :{
specially for you :')jesus1412 wrote:
That would be quite retarded, combo > all.
Combo -> Acc
When acc/speed pp split?
When acc/speed pp split?
Mania doesn't have an aim component like osu does so combo is irrelevant there.KukiMonster wrote:
I wish pp scoring was acc based like mania or at least acc based pp and with some combo bonus pp. never gonna happen :{
Hello guys,so i might get somehing wrong but... I just finished a map with full combo, map that was weighted 111 pp and in my top ranks list i see that map on my #1 place, and it's weighted 100% (111 pp). But i didn't got 111 pp to my score, i got something like 30 or maybe little bit mor. So what i got wrong about PP system?
Weightage systemTheLevitian wrote:
Hello guys,so i might get somehing wrong but... I just finished a map with full combo, map that was weighted 111 pp and in my top ranks list i see that map on my #1 place, and it's weighted 100% (111 pp). But i didn't got 111 pp to my score, i got something like 30 or maybe little bit mor. So what i got wrong about PP system?
For transparency on how your final pp is calculated, pp gained from the beatmap is given along with weight (% of eligible pp to be gained for final pp). Only your highest pp score's beatmap gives you full pp. Other scores' pp values will be multiplied with decreasing percentage. The percentage is always rounded to the next whole number for displaying, but for calculations it is not. For example a score can be weighted by 0.48% despite the display saying "0%". If n is the amount of scores giving more pp than a given score, then the score's weight is 0.95^n .
It follows, that your total pp is computed as follows. Let PP contain each score's pp value. PP[i] denotes the ith score's pp value, sorted decreasingly, where i goes from 1 to n, and n is the amount of scores you have.
Total pp = PP[1] * 0.95^0 + PP[2] * 0.95^1 + PP[3] * 0.95^2 + ... + PP[n] * 0.95^(n-1)
Click for an example of the formula usage (scroll down to see the example).
There is also bonus pp based on the number of ranked maps you have a score on. The bonus is:
416.6667 (1- 0.9994^Number_of_scores).
I haven't seen anyone talk about patterns and "reading" pp so I'm gonna make a post real quick about them.
Please remember that I have very little information on the topic of pattern's pp values as I only read like 6 of the last pages and have vague memories of reading the first 30 or so, and they said that pattern recognition is a thing of the distant future...
So after thinking a lot about patterns that are more difficult than others I've come to some conclusions and I'll post them here.
First, overlaps are increasingly hard to read/play as AR and CS get lower
Second, if fast (160+ 1/4 bpm) snapping between 70° and 180° hasn't been given any proper value yet, it deserves some.
Third, jumps Are hardest at 180°, 90° and 0° there should be a small increase in value for each of these, linearly falling to the default value where the halfway points(i.e. 45° and 135°). I guess the value increase should also not be too large, like at max 1,1 times higher aim value for jumps like these
Fourth, Jump sets where combo changes deserve some extra value, as I personally, and most likely a lot of other people too, rely on followpoints when reading jumps. (Granted, maps where combo changes aren't logical shouldn't make it to ranking, thus making this nigh irrelevant on the topic of pp)
Just typing out some of my thoughts on map difficulty values, I'm sure I missed a ton of points I've thought of during my personal performance evaluation system planning.
Please remember that I have very little information on the topic of pattern's pp values as I only read like 6 of the last pages and have vague memories of reading the first 30 or so, and they said that pattern recognition is a thing of the distant future...
So after thinking a lot about patterns that are more difficult than others I've come to some conclusions and I'll post them here.
First, overlaps are increasingly hard to read/play as AR and CS get lower
Second, if fast (160+ 1/4 bpm) snapping between 70° and 180° hasn't been given any proper value yet, it deserves some.
Third, jumps Are hardest at 180°, 90° and 0° there should be a small increase in value for each of these, linearly falling to the default value where the halfway points(i.e. 45° and 135°). I guess the value increase should also not be too large, like at max 1,1 times higher aim value for jumps like these
Fourth, Jump sets where combo changes deserve some extra value, as I personally, and most likely a lot of other people too, rely on followpoints when reading jumps. (Granted, maps where combo changes aren't logical shouldn't make it to ranking, thus making this nigh irrelevant on the topic of pp)
Just typing out some of my thoughts on map difficulty values, I'm sure I missed a ton of points I've thought of during my personal performance evaluation system planning.
p/3553419 there's been a lot of talk, but nothing done about itBrimroth wrote:
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if there was an easy way (easy to find, stuffed to your face) to get all the circle/slider positions and timings for several maps and just write an algorhitm to calculate stuff i think people would experiment with pattern and other difficulty calculation stuff more
I really hate how I can beat my score and get a lower PP value than the lower score. How and why is this possible, and can it be changed to take your highest pp attempt rather than your highest score?
It can and theres work being done for this; in the future you'll have multiple "ranked" plays for each mod but only your highest PP one contributes to your PP total. (if i remember correctly)
my only complain is that I've been correcting some songs that I had in C because I couldnt play them properly at that moment, but it has happened that I get a better rank and accuracy in the song and my global accuracy drops...I dont get it...
The accuracy on your profile is weighted by the accuracy of your top plays.
The worse a play is the less influence it has.
Therefore a C without any combo and trash acc has no influence on your weighted accuracy but a B with mediocre acc and high combo does have influence and will therefore lower your weighted accuracy.
The worse a play is the less influence it has.
Therefore a C without any combo and trash acc has no influence on your weighted accuracy but a B with mediocre acc and high combo does have influence and will therefore lower your weighted accuracy.
double time weighting
I believe the reason it gives more pp than it should (difficulty-wise) is because it gives a bonus for higher OD despite not increasing OD at all.
Higher OD decreases the time window in which you need to hit to score a 300. It therefor increases the time window between those 300 hit windows which is where the difficulty/accuracy challenge comes from.
This is not the case for double time. Double time merely decreases the time window required for a 300 but evenly decreases the time window between hits (instead of increasing it).
Double time makes you need to play faster, not more accurate than no-mod at all.
I believe the reason it gives more pp than it should (difficulty-wise) is because it gives a bonus for higher OD despite not increasing OD at all.
Higher OD decreases the time window in which you need to hit to score a 300. It therefor increases the time window between those 300 hit windows which is where the difficulty/accuracy challenge comes from.
This is not the case for double time. Double time merely decreases the time window required for a 300 but evenly decreases the time window between hits (instead of increasing it).
Double time makes you need to play faster, not more accurate than no-mod at all.
E m i
pp bonus for more time interval between hits (lower bpm, pauses) would be nice, because it's tuff
To keep the same relative accuracy with DT, you need to have a higher absolute accuracy.julchiar wrote:
double time weighting
I believe the reason it gives more pp than it should (difficulty-wise) is because it gives a bonus for higher OD despite not increasing OD at all.
Higher OD decreases the time window in which you need to hit to score a 300. It therefor increases the time window between those 300 hit windows which is where the difficulty/accuracy challenge comes from.
This is not the case for double time. Double time merely decreases the time window required for a 300 but evenly decreases the time window between hits (instead of increasing it).
Double time makes you need to play faster, not more accurate than no-mod at all.
While it's true that relative accuracy is
The relative vs absolute problem comes up in reading too, with density. DT keeps the relative reading difficulty (density) the same, but the absolute reading diffficulty (same density, higher AR) is higher.
More of a question than feedback, but regardless.
Does Hidden mod by itself affect the PP gained from the map or does it only increase score? Asking Tillerino while playing with both nomod and hidden seem to result in it guessing the same PP
Does Hidden mod by itself affect the PP gained from the map or does it only increase score? Asking Tillerino while playing with both nomod and hidden seem to result in it guessing the same PP
Hidden gives a fixed amount to the aim value and accuracy bonus of a score. If I'm not mistaken it's an 18% boost to aim and a 2% boost to accuracy, so it's best used in jump/small circle maps with high OD.
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