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Rhythm Incarnate
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Hello there.
I am making an interesting system that will potentially/hopefully work in parallel with pp (or become a modification of it).
The idea is to give a map some values that will tell "skill requirements" to succesfully play the map. And when you beat the map you gain certain amount of skill points depending on the number of points you already had.
So far I've finished basic skill requirement calculations for streams, stamina and general aim skill.
My next milestone is making calculations for the most subjective one - reading skill.

I made this thread here hoping that you can tell me your views on what's "hard to read".
Please, be as precise as possible. This will help me a lot.
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Pro Tester
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1) Object density. This is the number of hitobjects on screen at once. IMO it's the most important factor, and most of what makes EZ hard.
It's probably more accurate if you don't count 1/4 notes in this calculation, since fast streams can drive up this number without actually affecting the reading difficulty. Also scaling slightly by note distance would be good too, since more eye movement is required to take everything in and react in time.

2) Overlapping notes. If there are two notes on roughly the same spot that are visible at the same time, and you have to move to another spot and back in between hitting them, that's really confusing to read. This isn't such a big deal unless the object density is high enough though.

2.5) Suddenly changing patterns. If you're doing star motions and the star suddenly turns into a pentagon or even reverses direction, it's really easy to trip up if you're not paying close attention. Even so, it's hardly an issue unless #2 is present, in which case it becomes a total nightmare!!

3) Suddenly changing time intervals. If the spacing remains constant (e.g. 100 osupixels between each note) but the pattern suddenly changes from 1/2 to 1/4, 1/4 to 1/2, etc. then that's really tricky to read. (Anything changing from normal beatsnaps to 1/3 is especially hard.) Mappers usually put new combos to fight this.


Just my thoughts for now. Those are the things I find most difficult when playing EZ, so I assume it extrapolates even to higher AR as well.
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Rhythm Incarnate
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Add slider clusters and slider speed changes. Sometimes there's no way to tell and you have to either react fast or memorise them.
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Rhythm Incarnate
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Ask Tom94, I think he'd know more. Some stuff I'd like to point out as well are:

- Stream spacing (Shuffle Heaven and Okeanos are infamous for this, IMO)
- Reaction reading vs. Focus reading (AR-based, if you get my drift)
- The weird boundary between singletaps and streams (Kyouki Chinden and Worldwide Choppers both have this)
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Rhythm Incarnate
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You can break reading difficulty down into a visual component and a non-visual component.

The non-visual component can be summarized as a measure of variation. Between every pair of objects (and every slider start and slider end) there is a minimum speed you must move your cursor to hit both objects. This speed can vary between adjacent pairs of notes, and as the difference increases it becomes more difficult to read. The same thing is true for the angles between notes; if the angle between a pair of objects is substantially different than the angle between the next pair of objects the whole pattern becomes more complex to read.

It's easy to understand if you think of the entire map as a sort of differentiable function; the function itself is just position, but you can differentiate it to get velocity, then again for acceleration, etc.. These derivatives can be aggregated in order to find the map's non-visual complexity.

Visual complexity is a measure of visual obfuscation caused by overlapping stuff; overlapping graphics, obviously, but also things like overlapping cursor paths, overlapping patterns, etc. This is what makes EZ seem difficult; overlaps become more likely as the number of objects on-screen increases. However, the real difficulty isn't in the visual obfuscation itself, but rather its effect on how much time you have to process each note, so visual complexity can come not only from the "noise" of low AR, but also the sheer speed of high AR.
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Rhythm Incarnate
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Thanks for the posts!
So far I've managed to detect object overlaps at any point of time and ignoring streams in this calculation
And also object density value.
The idea of considering angles came to my mind before but I never realized it can affect reading and not just difficulty of certain jumps (squares e.t.c) because of "difficult" cursor moves you must do
I'll definetly try this
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Rhythm Incarnate
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They say 90 degree angles are the hardest to play, so the amounts of right angles or the proximity of being close to 90 degrees may also play a role in map difficulty. Check out DJPop's maps for that matter.
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Beat Clicker
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circles that are arranged in certain ways
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Rhythm Incarnate
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skystar with extra pizza
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Combo Commander
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ar >= 9.3
Attention ya du vent...
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Rhythm Incarnate
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Pattern complexity and AR (note density) are probably the biggest ones, since basic patterns like squares and triangles etc that follow a clockwise rotation are much more easier than squares and triangles that have their order change clockwise and anticlockwise. Note density which is dependent on the AR and bpm translate to readability as the illusion of "more beats" or "less beats" affect your gameplay by making you either go too fast and missing beats or hitting them too fast
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Rhythm Incarnate
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buny wrote:
Pattern complexity and AR (note density) are probably the biggest ones, since basic patterns like squares and triangles etc that follow a clockwise rotation are much more easier than squares and triangles that have their order change clockwise and anticlockwise.


Are you sure that just doesn't depend on the person
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Rhythm Incarnate
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Kheldragar wrote:
buny wrote:
Pattern complexity and AR (note density) are probably the biggest ones, since basic patterns like squares and triangles etc that follow a clockwise rotation are much more easier than squares and triangles that have their order change clockwise and anticlockwise.


Are you sure that just doesn't depend on the person

readability is a very subjective topic, since it doesn't have an actual metric such as speed, aim (and arguably accuracy)
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Rhythm Incarnate
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Readability absolutely does have an actual metric, we just haven't figured out what it is. People tend to get caught up in the whole "not everyone finds the same patterns easy or difficult to read" argument without realizing that readability and reading skill are two different things, just like accuracy as a statistic and accuracy as a skill. Differences in pattern recognition stem from differences in the relative development of all of reading's sub-skills, not from any inherent differences in reading ability, and while it might be absurdly complicated, there absolutely does exist a metric by which readability can be measured.
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Rhythm Incarnate
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Yeah, I think the same.
I am not good at making hypotheses, so that's why I am just planning to gather angle+distance data from various difficult map sections and then try to find something common in them.
If only I had a list of them..
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