Zak wrote:

Stop saying "people have too much pp" because you're comparing it to standard, you DO NOT compare a system to a system for another mode, they're not supposed to be just about the same, while I do agree the maps giving 500pp are weighted too much, I wouldn't agree with updating the system unless it can still weigh the actual hard maps high enough without the really easy shit like Go Berzerk getting an explosion of pp.

Everyone has already seen those few maps that give too much, but aside from that (not counting DT since it does need some rework) the system seems to be decently balanced. Everyone is just going to have to wait for Tom to have a chance to tweak things again in a couple more months. Just don't convince him to completely change everything again since we're definitely heading in the right direction currently.

eldnl wrote:

But the amount of pp doesn't matter, in overall, it is just a number. The problem is how the points are calculated, isn't?

Storm- wrote:

eldnl wrote:

But the amount of pp doesn't matter, in overall, it is just a number. The problem is how the points are calculated, isn't?

play for fun, i think we all learned that while playing without rankings for quite some time.

Storm- wrote:

eldnl wrote:

But the amount of pp doesn't matter, in overall, it is just a number. The problem is how the points are calculated, isn't?

play for fun, i think we all learned that while playing without rankings for quite some time.

-Ryuujii- wrote:

that's ironic coming from you.

Laharl wrote:

Guess what, they don't because pp's the ultimate pleasure.

Zak wrote:

It doesn't happen often, but there's no such thing as a perfect system so you can always expect to find flaws somewhere.

Kingkevin30 wrote:

Is the FL-Buff really supposed to be that strong in comparison to a FC?

Cblt wrote:

I assume that point of new pp was >power play< and any forms of pp farming would not exist, I'm right or I'm right?
Basically, I don't understand the point of HT gains. I mean, it's score, AR is slower but... well, RYUUTA is slower as well. It doesn't really matter if map is longer when few aspects makes it REALLY easy. If we are going with the flow, somebody would say "but it's fine at it is" but it's not. So, my personal request is to devalue HT gained pp to point where it doesn't matter aka HT should give 0 or only 50pp for ANY map. HTHR is fine, not just the same HT or HDHT. If community seeks a way of casuality, I reccomend using EZDT or EZ in general.

PakaChan wrote:

Can you give an example of one such "HT gains" map that isn't an overrated pp map nomod in the first place?

Cblt wrote:

PakaChan wrote:

Can you give an example of one such "HT gains" map that isn't an overrated pp map nomod in the first place?

CLSW's Halozy - Genryuu Kaiko, Spectator's Hatsuki Yura - Yoiyami Hanabi and don't tell me they are overrated in NO-MOD. (well, I can't really tell if Hidden and HR is correct as well) ;w;
There are many examples where HT is just... wrong and it's STILL easier.

Cblt wrote:

What exactly does that change when HT is still easier? Should be nerfed. :p
Maps aren't the biggest problem here.

EZ+DT abusement

Banned Forever Pattern

Time- wrote:

DT should really really be nerfed



I know that some map is harder with DT than HR, but for a 2-3 star map HR is harder than DT and should give more pp
map: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/630519?m=2

edit: since I'm not really good with HR, I might be wrong ;w;

PakaChan wrote:

Most common PP maps for top500 players, for anyone interested

SPOILER

Kingkevin30 wrote:

wow, thats really interesting, but how did you get the data of apperances?

PakaChan wrote:

Most common PP maps for top500 players, for anyone interested

SPOILER

sad weeb wrote:

If we stop the fact that HT still gives literally almost the same amount of pp as doing the map without, you're gonna see half of the top 500 drop to under 1k. The whole HT / HTHR thing is pretty stupid and HT pp needs to be adjusted.

PakaChan wrote:

sad weeb wrote:

If we stop the fact that HT still gives literally almost the same amount of pp as doing the map without, you're gonna see half of the top 500 drop to under 1k. The whole HT / HTHR thing is pretty stupid and HT pp needs to be adjusted.

someone missed the the december update

sad weeb wrote:

HT still gives literally almost the same amount of pp as doing the map without

-Kurisu- wrote:

It isn't accurate at all IMO to put so much weight on ctb specific maps, especially since there are so few. There are plenty of standard maps that translate into fun and difficult ctb maps. Also the best performance shouldn't be filled with easy SS's...

Rockageek wrote:

In my opinion, there is something missing in the algorithm, something that could detect shitpatterns which do not contain any hyperdash, complex moves that requires alot of skill and accuracy.

for example

https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=137840&m=2
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=45918&m=2
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/123708&m=2
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=66514&m=2
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/115384&m=2
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=344619&m=2
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=374400&m=2
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/289256&m=2
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=37658&m=2
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=255705&m=2
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=298880&m=2
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=25580&m=2
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=153484&m=2

I hope some players will understand my point of view about this.

Gunsillie wrote:

So, my question has probably already been answered, but here I go:
If I'm not mistaken, it was stated in the wiki that PP are calculated taking into account the popularity of the map. However, in CtB the player pool is way less big, so the algorithm that evaluates the popularity of the map needs to give way higher bonuses comparatively to std for the same number of plays.
Is it only a std thing, does it even still exist?

Seph wrote:

but nooo repetitive patterns and hyperdash spam is what makes everything hard!

jumps are like dongers, the longer the better

Ibuki Mioda wrote:

Was it ever meant that when you play a song with DT/NC only you get the full amount of pp and play it again using only HR and score higher and instantly lose all pp and ranks gained from it? Seems that HR has no benefits at all if it counts the same as no mods at all. Had a few songs like this from older maps and lost 40pp for playing it over again and getting a higher score and accuracy...

Ibuki Mioda wrote:

Was it ever meant that when you play a song with DT/NC only you get the full amount of pp and play it again using only HR and score higher and instantly lose all pp and ranks gained from it? Seems that HR has no benefits at all if it counts the same as no mods at all. Had a few songs like this from older maps and lost 40pp for playing it over again and getting a higher score and accuracy...

Zak wrote:

It won't be an issue when you get to keep your higher pp score when you get a higher score by using HR

Zak wrote:

Yes but eventually you will get to have 2 separate scores per map, one for highest pp and another for your best score.

Drafura wrote:

Why not get rid of score ranking ?

Drafura wrote:

Why not get rid of score ranking ?

TheVileOne wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=17908&m=2 Please nerf the pp this map gives in DT. It isn't even hard and it gives way too much pp. The Expert is overrated as well, but at least it is tricky in spots.

Ibuki Mioda wrote:

TheVileOne wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=17908&m=2 Please nerf the pp this map gives in DT. It isn't even hard and it gives way too much pp. The Expert is overrated as well, but at least it is tricky in spots.

Lol that song is from 2008 and surprisingly the scores from it reflects that almost no one plays it anymore if you can reach near the top on first attempt so I don't think it even matters. Then again if they used the old pp system it might even bring back all the people that retired shortly after like my friend okami--chan which quit for that reason after pretty much losing everything she worked for a few years.

Ibuki Mioda wrote:

like my friend okami--chan which quit for that reason after pretty much losing everything she worked for a few years.

PakaChan wrote:

Ibuki Mioda wrote:

like my friend okami--chan which quit for that reason after pretty much losing everything she worked for a few years.

Omg, she lost a fake number showing her "skill", what can she do without her precious go berzerk top rank??

TheVileOne wrote:

If the effect was really that bad, then obviously she was farming a ton of maps and should have known it was going to happen. I knew I was going to take a large hit and I lost over 700 ranks when pp algorithms changed. I've been slowly working back towards my old rank.

Zak wrote:

Anyone who wants to quit over losing their pp rank obviously doesn't play for the right reasons, the only thing going on in this thread lately is people bringing up the same issues again and again, Tom is already well aware, and when he comes back to tweak pp again, he'll do so, but until then people should stop getting so upset over a number that still doesn't do a very good job of accurately representing skill and bring up issues about the current system that haven't already been discussed. Also nowhere near "most" of the competition retired, that's far from the truth.

Zak wrote:

If pp is your sole reason for playing then why not play a game where rank actually gets you somewhere, I'm not trying to be rude about this but being good at catching fruit won't win you money or anything, so playing for pp alone and not being to simply enjoy the game is pointless, I'm not saying you're not allowed to be competitive, but there are tournaments and multiplayer lobbies if you really care about showing how good you are.

Ibuki Mioda wrote:

Zak wrote:

If pp is your sole reason for playing then why not play a game where rank actually gets you somewhere, I'm not trying to be rude about this but being good at catching fruit won't win you money or anything, so playing for pp alone and not being to simply enjoy the game is pointless, I'm not saying you're not allowed to be competitive, but there are tournaments and multiplayer lobbies if you really care about showing how good you are.

Simple lets remove pp for all modes for a while and you will have your answer. It's a lot more than what you think. Showing off isn't what it's about, that is what the world cup is for. Just seems that all the people trying to be like you will never get to see what it's like on top if there is no system in place. You wouldn't care because your already there andhave had your fill of it. Besides the current system is fine as long it just keep going down hill.

Zak wrote:

My problem with pp is people taking it too seriously and investing their time in that alone, if anything that takes the fun out of this game as you're no longer playing maps that you find challenging and fun, you'll simply be looking at the number they give and playing it regardless of how you feel about the map, honestly from what I can tell pp works well in Taiko and Standard for the most part, so it makes more sense to focus on pp there to an extent but for pp to be your one and only reason to play ctb is sort of dumb when the system is broken, and even more dumb when the same people are going to come back when things are finally updated and cry yet again about how they lost their "well deserved rank".

Once again to be absolutely clear, it's okay to go for pp but to put 100% of all your effort into a system that is very obviously flawed and say there's no other way to enjoy the game is just stupid.

Kingkevin30 wrote:

eargh this pointless argument is making me sick, you are talking around a pointless value and how you feel about it instead of just going to the Core
Topic....If you didn't find out in the decade you've been playing video games...there are some Core Aspect how people can enjoy playing a video game

and since I'm a lazy slob, i won't phrase what i want to say myself, I'm just gonna throw some quotes from an Psychological Study called
"A Motivational Model of Video Game Engagement"

Da Text-Wall

Video games motivate a remarkable amount of goal-directed
behavior.
...
the appeal of video games lies
in the inherent properties of the experiences they provide
...
behaviors pursued for their own sake or their inherent satisfaction are
identified as intrinsically motivated, whereas those pursued to
access desired end states or avoid aversive ones are understood as
extrinsically motivated
...
For more than 3 decades, one subtheory of SDT,
cognitive evaluation theory (CET), has guided research on
intrinsic motivation in sports, education, and leisure domains. For
example, Ryan and Deci (2007) recently reviewed a substantial
body of research on sport and exercise in which CET explained
interest and sustained participation in these activities. In another
recent example, Sheldon and Filak (2008) experimentally manip-
ulated autonomy, competence, and relatedness support in a non-
digital game-based learning context, showing that each of these
basic needs independently predicted motivation for a game activ-
ity.
...
This extensive body of research based on CET thus shows that
SPECIFIC PSYCHOLOGICAL NOURISHMENTS PRESENT in activities are nec-
essary for activities to be experienced as inherently enjoyable or
fun
,

so pls be quiet now...OK ?

Just let People Enjoy what they do the way they like it

-iNSaNiX- wrote:

I create new thread with the idea: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/340014

But i put here too:

First of all I have to say this is written with google translator, sorry for bad English.

The idea is put a system pp like the one osu!mania, it is odious that you have only one fault no longer obtain pp, then I propose to put a maximum of 1 million score in all songs of Catch the Beat mode, and mods they can not climb score but if they can raise more pp if you have nice score with mod (hard rock, hidden...)

And in the ranking can be overcome people using mods, per example:

1-ExGon 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
2-Dusk 1.000.000 score (He has not used any mod)

or also it:

1-ExGon 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock, Hidden)
2-Dusk 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
3-Spectator 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
4-CLSW 1.000.000 score (Hidden)

Depending on the difficulty of the mod positions up

And for get 1.000.000 score you need 100% accuracy (obviously)

-iNSaNiX- wrote:

I create new thread with the idea: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/340014

But i put here too:

First of all I have to say this is written with google translator, sorry for bad English.

The idea is put a system pp like the one osu!mania, it is odious that you have only one fault no longer obtain pp, then I propose to put a maximum of 1 million score in all songs of Catch the Beat mode, and mods they can not climb score but if they can raise more pp if you have nice score with mod (hard rock, hidden...)

And in the ranking can be overcome people using mods, per example:

1-ExGon 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
2-Dusk 1.000.000 score (He has not used any mod)

or also it:

1-ExGon 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock, Hidden)
2-Dusk 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
3-Spectator 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
4-CLSW 1.000.000 score (Hidden)

Depending on the difficulty of the mod positions up

And for get 1.000.000 score you need 100% accuracy (obviously)

Hedgeturtle wrote:

Speaking of bananas, I know this isn't the right place, but still I want to ask this random question. Why isn't the banana count shown in the score screen after a game? It shows fruits caught, droplets caught, big combo-giving droplets caught, fruits missed, but doesn't show bananas caught. Weird, if you ask me.

Hedgeturtle wrote:

Speaking of bananas, I know this isn't the right place, but still I want to ask this random question. Why isn't the banana count shown in the score screen after a game? It shows fruits caught, droplets caught, big combo-giving droplets caught, fruits missed, but doesn't show bananas caught. Weird, if you ask me.

[Hakurei-Miko] wrote:

ppv2 rip farmers, ppv3 soon