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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Catch the Beat)

posted
Total Posts
775
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94
Hello everyone,

I've got an initial iteration of the algorithm to show. Please remember to tell me which version you are talking about when giving feedback. Also please let me know which tuning seems the best to you. ;)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... 3emc#gid=1
Last edited by Tom94 , edited 4 times in total.
119410501
665 posts
Joined April 2011
119410501
Remove PP rankings.
DeletedUser_500696
DeletedUser_500696

119410501 wrote:

Remove PP rankings.
I disagree with this. PP is fun for a lot of people even if it will never be perfect.

It isn't accurate at all IMO to put so much weight on ctb specific maps, especially since there are so few. There are plenty of standard maps that translate into fun and difficult ctb maps. Also the best performance shouldn't be filled with easy SS's...
Ioka
96 posts
Joined September 2013
Ioka
dont. change. it. i will stay #84 forever. :) :)
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30
i don't really know much about the "skill weight" in CTB... but because CTB uses just 2 axes the most "difficulty" increasing factors for me are the AR, the Distance between Notes and the CS.
-Ryuujii-
259 posts
Joined November 2012
-Ryuujii-
let peppy do whatever he thinks is right, after all he can't make all this kids happy.
Yuji Tokaji
776 posts
Joined March 2009
Yuji Tokaji

-Ryuujii- wrote:

let peppy do whatever he thinks is right, after all he can't make all this kids happy.
Indeed. I'm fine with this new system.
DeathXHunter
DeathXHunter
I think SS shouldn't be that much considered as it is in standard,or like it was in CtB,that's all what bothered me.
Riari
743 posts
Joined April 2013
Riari

DeathXHunter wrote:

I think SS shouldn't be that much considered as it is in standard,or like it was in CtB,that's all what bothered me.
This.

I think that if you play with a mod and Don't get an SS, it should weigh more than a SS nomod. I've had multiple plays like this and it really annoys me to know that my effort went to waste.
lineqtxz
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
134 posts
Joined July 2011
lineqtxz
approved > insane > hard

DeathXHunter wrote:

I think SS shouldn't be that much considered as it is in standard,or like it was in CtB,that's all what bothered me.
and this^
Catgirl
472 posts
Joined June 2013
Catgirl
I am a SS player, and my old rank of around #4300 wasn't really indicative of my skill at all (I should really be much lower). Any good play with mods should really benefit more to ranks, even if they don't full combo. It takes much more skill in CTB to play with HR and get say, 99.5%, than it does to play the same map with no mod and get SS.
119410501
665 posts
Joined April 2011
119410501
I logged in yesterday and loved how the boxes without rank look, everybody is the same and plays just for fun. I really liked that.
Of course PP rank is totally better than the ranked score rank, but no rank is the best one.
Touche
557 posts
Joined May 2012
Touche

lineqtxz wrote:

approved > insane > hard

DeathXHunter wrote:

I think SS shouldn't be that much considered as it is in standard,or like it was in CtB,that's all what bothered me.
and this^
+1 to this

If CtB's SS has a high pp value, a lot of farmers will come back :s
WujekGrzyb
188 posts
Joined February 2010
WujekGrzyb

119410501 wrote:

I logged in yesterday and loved how the boxes without rank look, everybody is the same and plays just for fun. I really liked that.
Of course PP rank is totally better than the ranked score rank, but no rank is the best one.
Good guy 119410501.

I like players rank in each beatmap, so global rank could even stands for average places in every map :P
Kitsunemimi
2,188 posts
Joined April 2009
Kitsunemimi

Kingkevin30 wrote:

i don't really know much about the "skill weight" in CTB... but because CTB uses just 2 axes the most "difficulty" increasing factors for me are the AR, the Distance between Notes and the CS.
Mostly this ^

Also, there are some very difficult patterns in CtB such as slider streams and back/forth jumps since the hyperdash update.

You also have to remember that since vertical distance in CtB is nullified, you can't just calculate the total distance between notes, but instead, the left/right distance. The same goes for super speed slider streams, sometimes they're vertical so they're easy, but sometimes they're horizontal and almost impossible... It makes it a bit difficult and inconsistent to calculate difficulty.
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo
1: ------------------------------------- Scratch that

2: CTB ranking should be calucated by combo/overall map progression

3:why are droplets worth 10 points.. lol? we only get these droplets to get that SS Bonus for the PP.. so please fix that <3

4: another thing is spinner maps, in ctb there are pp maps called no spinner maps such as (Maware - Popner's Hard) https://osu.ppy.sh/s/122658 Which gave over 40-50 PP If you SS'd it with HR/HD because you would tie for 3rd/4th place and give alot of pp, but if you even miss 1 droplet you would lose all that pp gain

5: you should weigh HR/FL, also look at HD, there are tons of HD players in CTB


thanks - sabi

EDIT: I am a nomod player, i infact HATE HD, HD for me is just for pp, i love nomod and alot of people do, so try to make it fun for the both sides of the grass HD and Nomod
Last edited by iiyo , edited 1 time in total.
Sousaki
177 posts
Joined May 2012
Sousaki

119410501 wrote:

no rank is the best one.
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo

Sousaki wrote:

119410501 wrote:

no rank is the best one.
Having no rank, means no motivation or drive to pass others, if you want to play casualy then go offline, in black ops there is casual gamers and serious gamers, in ppv1 it was perfect for both
Kazuo
3,333 posts
Joined September 2010
Kazuo
there is a huge gap between ctb custom maps and normal maps
bomber34
1,529 posts
Joined February 2011
bomber34
HD should not be weighted that much ... or more or less like
- the lower the AR the more HD weights
on high AR you can ignore HD really
AR10 is a bitch no matter which mod though

DT should be weighted a bit less than HR but that also depends on how difficult the map overall is ... I hate DT since the control feels almost non existing in detailmovements >.>)

- imo dashes which are very closely no Hyperdashes (you still need to dash normally) are harder than normal Hyperdashes

- FL is weird, no opinion

no idea if the system can detect certain patterns well enough, especially very fast zigzags are hard

just my opinion though
good luck
YERTI
149 posts
Joined March 2012
YERTI


im okay with this rank
ZiRoX
Elite Mapper
1,050 posts
Joined November 2009
ZiRoX
I just hope you find a good way to measure difficulty. If you were to find one, you could compare all maps (converted and CTB-specific) with the same basis, and avoid giving CTB-specific maps a ridiculous bonus like it is now (a Cup diff I played almost 1 year ago is worth more than some harder converted maps I've been playing recently)
119410501
665 posts
Joined April 2011
119410501

Sabi wrote:

Having no rank, means no motivation or drive to pass others, if you want to play casualy then go offline, in black ops there is casual gamers and serious gamers, in ppv1 it was perfect for both
Passing others shouldn't be based on a number.
I used to be motivated into rising ranks, I've always been high ranked, but the feeling of having no rank is priceless.
If you want to improve you still can without a rank.
OtakuFreak
28 posts
Joined September 2013
OtakuFreak

Sabi wrote:

Having no rank, means no motivation or drive to pass others, if you want to play casualy then go offline, in black ops there is casual gamers and serious gamers, in ppv1 it was perfect for both
agree.No rank.No motivation.ppv1 please //runs
Yoishi
51 posts
Joined December 2012
Yoishi
Accuracy based plz
zedrux1
23 posts
Joined August 2013
zedrux1
difficulty for CTB recommend to consider a see estimated harder songs that have mostly notes from left to right and right to left

because if they are vertical notes are very senciallas, also taking into account the number of radioactive red fruits because if many should be considered the hardest song

even the speed of the fall fruit if not should consider is that some songs are too fast and not all get used to that speed so I say put a speed limiter of fallen fruit

and I think I should also consider the position in which you're but that the more players get superstructures + PP

and finally I think what most consider sebe difficulty is that order
- Size Cricle
- Rate Approach
- HP Drain
- Difficulty Overwall

Well that's all and greetings :P
Empress Junko
Empress Junko
1. Difficulty of maps based on something similliar to osu!tp beatmap diffculties. (+ little boost of performance in CtB diffs.)
2. Boost of FL performance, reduce of HD farming.

Having no rank would be too drastical in my opinion.
Kolbe
192 posts
Joined December 2011
Kolbe

YERTI wrote:



im okay with this rank
Sure you are ! xD
I got 77k yey !
Suikami
523 posts
Joined September 2012
Suikami

YERTI wrote:



im okay with this rank

Me too, lol

suggestion ? maybe same as others
approved > insane > hard
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl
About mods:

- Playing DT on AR9+ maps. example: https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=66853&m=2 - https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=48416&m=2
- Playing HR on AR8+ maps. example: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/291996?m=2 - https://osu.ppy.sh/b/151017?m=2
- Playing HD on AR7- maps (but the map has to be a hard difficulty). https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=51308&m=2 - https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=101727&m=2
- Playing FL on AR9+ maps. https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=86324&m=2

That's the harder stuff about mods.
About the normal difficulty of a map, you have to consider the x distance of the notes, including sliders, because the y distance doesn't matter at all.
The note density doesn't matter that much, everything is about the jumps, a fast bpm song without jumps will be easy, a slow bpm song with a lot of jump will be hard.
The stream jumps can be considered has something really hard.

If anyone can add something that would be great.
Last edited by eldnl , edited 1 time in total.
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl
edit double post.
Drafura
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined April 2010
Drafura

DeathXHunter wrote:

I think SS shouldn't be that much considered as it is in standard,or like it was in CtB,that's all what bothered me.
What are you talking about ?



Also I have no opinion about pp. /me get out of this thread.
DeathXHunter
DeathXHunter
Talking about that if u get SS you would've get a shitton of PP,1 droplet miss or more and you didnt even get close to the amount of PP.

Anyways Drafura,I'm lucky you mastered the alphabet!
Drafura
osu! Alumni
2,621 posts
Joined April 2010
Drafura

DeathXHunter wrote:

Anyways Drafura,I'm lucky you mastered the alphabet!
It took me some time.

Anyway /offtopic
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl

DeathXHunter wrote:

Talking about that if u get SS you would've get a shitton of PP,1 droplet miss or more and you didnt even get close to the amount of PP.

Anyways Drafura,I'm lucky you mastered the alphabet!
A droplet shouldn't be a big difference, the accuracy on ctb is a lot different from any other game mode.
DeathXHunter
DeathXHunter
Welp that's what i was trying to say ,was wrong considered on the old build. Anyways,keep sharing your opinons and dont complain ingame about your rank guys :)
Last edited by DeathXHunter , edited 1 time in total.
- Rii -
189 posts
Joined December 2013
- Rii -
1. SS shouldn't be weighted much
2. spinners shouldn't be weighted much (may still give a little bonus though)
3. HD on high AR shouldn't be weighted much.. sometimes it's even much easier to play high ARs with HD
4. DT should be equal or at least a bit less to HR, especially on AR9 or some maps with insane jumps. sometimes DT is even much harder than HR
5. a tp system for ctb would be good (where you collect the hardest to fc maps in ctb, rank them and made points based on that)

edit: ok i have no opinions for FL
Didfus
15 posts
Joined December 2012
Didfus
remove play counts :o
Slow
426 posts
Joined September 2011
Slow
I want to remove the PP system..
CLSW
osu! Alumni
2,182 posts
Joined October 2010
CLSW
It would be impossible to remove pp ranking system on ctb :P

Guys, think it to better way, don't give up. We still don't know if new system will beloved?
Seph
Seph

- Rii - wrote:

where you collect the hardest to fc maps in ctb, rank them and made points based on that
"omg lets rank verdi maps!"

no.
- Rii -
189 posts
Joined December 2013
- Rii -

Seph wrote:

- Rii - wrote:

where you collect the hardest to fc maps in ctb, rank them and made points based on that
"omg lets rank verdi maps!"

no.
k verdi maps is overrated

and i don't mean to get those sh*tmaps to be "ranked", just something like this for ctb
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl

- Rii - wrote:

1. SS shouldn't be weighted much
2. spinners shouldn't be weighted much (may still give a little bonus though)
3. HD on high AR shouldn't be weighted much.. sometimes it's even much easier to play high ARs with HD
4. DT should be equal or at least a bit less to HR, especially on AR9 or some maps with insane jumps. sometimes DT is even much harder than HR
5. a tp system for ctb would be good (where you collect the hardest to fc maps in ctb, rank them and made points based on that)

edit: ok i have no opinions for FL
DT is harder on AR9+ and high bpm jumpy maps.
VelperK
1,172 posts
Joined May 2010
VelperK

119410501 wrote:

Remove PP rankings.
now that's something nice to see from you!

yeah i agree
Seph
Seph

- Rii - wrote:

and i don't mean to get those sh*tmaps to be "ranked", just something like this for ctb
that is possible, its just that ctbtp would require manual inputs of maps, and difficulty of a map in ctb is quite arguable since player 1 can have troubles with a certain map while player 2 cant, and it goes vice versa
NecoNecoDouga
2 posts
Joined January 2012
NecoNecoDouga
I express neutral opinion about this agenda.
Cuz If New ranking system is becoming, Maybe i can get more high ranking but i think that system will be not exciting for playing osu!
if system is staying like now, i can't get more high ranking but, there is exciting for getting more ranking with competition with others ranker

So i can't say certainly changing the system is good for me or not


( I'm not good at English So there are many grammatical errors)
Len
Beatmap Nominator
2,816 posts
Joined June 2012
Len

119410501 wrote:

Remove PP rankings.
^
autofanboy
Elite Mapper / osu!trivium Champion
1,591 posts
Joined January 2011
autofanboy
cancel pp
viostrone
viostrone

alienflybot wrote:

cancel pp
+1
S a o r i
6 posts
Joined October 2011
S a o r i
delete the pp system
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