yes!! i support ONLY increasing ar! idea good very
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Make Approach Rate function for user definable option
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Do you support user-definable AR in ranked play?
Total votes: 189
Polling ended
Yeah, it just doesn't seem right to shift the power even more to the mole whackers and away from the map readers by allowing them to turn any map into whack-a-mole and not allowing the same to be true for people that want to do the reverse (and really, it's only a small number of maps that push their AR too high and result in a map where it feels like you're spending half your time waiting for the next hit circle to pop up so you can whack it (as opposed to the mole whacker aggravation of feeling like they're spending half their time waiting for approach circles to close)).Aqo wrote:
It's actually kinda funny that you say only increasing the AR would keep its difficulty.
If you could do that, ranked, most people would increase the AR of all AR8 maps to 9 and it would make them 20 times easier to play, meanwhile the option to decrease AR to 7 would've potentially made those same maps way harder.
The whether the player is increasing or decreasing the AR, since the program can't really judge the effect on difficulty, for game balance you have to assume that the map has been made considerably easier regardless of setting (even if they're intentionally making it hard on themselves... the program can't know that unless it's made to be able to judge difficulty accurately, and that's extra tricky because difficulty is somewhat subjective). Which is why I think if it is allowed, it should be allowed in either direction (because either way can be easier or harder, there isn't a difference in allowing one or the other), and with a score penalty.
Support, but I prefer to limit the define setting to AR+1 or AR+2,
so that in easy or normal maps, you can't go AR9 in a difficulty with an AR3, but you can adjust it to AR4 or AR5.
so that in easy or normal maps, you can't go AR9 in a difficulty with an AR3, but you can adjust it to AR4 or AR5.
Current Priority: +265Most people think this is a good idea. Most of the people not agreeing with this doesn't even play much osu!
slow AR's harder to read anyway :3
support
support
rickyboi
Only increasing the AR? That's fine I guess, but this only gives advantage to the players who are good with high AR. The ones who can play or likes (eg. val0108 or CXu) to play AR 8/7/6 or even lower has the disadvantage here. This again limiting the potential of different kinds of players god damn it.
i'm fine with the fixed AR because some maps look ugly with fast/slow AR.the mapper picked that certain AR because he/she thinks it's the best AR for his/her map (imo)
Meh I think it should decrease score since it makes it easier for a lot of people.
As I said before, if it makes it easier, it should decrease score. If it doesn't make it easier for everybody, then the people who don't get anything from it will be at a disadvantage (and no, please don't allow AR to be lowered; either way it should decrease score since its a difficulty decreasing effect)
As I said before, if it makes it easier, it should decrease score. If it doesn't make it easier for everybody, then the people who don't get anything from it will be at a disadvantage (and no, please don't allow AR to be lowered; either way it should decrease score since its a difficulty decreasing effect)
can i use my votes to take away 2 votes from this
increase only makes me sad, I do best with ar8... oh well~rickyboi wrote:
Only increasing the AR? That's fine I guess, but this only gives advantage to the players who are good with high AR. The ones who can play or likes (eg. val0108 or CXu) to play AR 8/7/6 or even lower has the disadvantage here. This again limiting the potential of different kinds of players god damn it.
Consider that if it "only makes it easier for some", then there is probably no reason not to add it. Implying that it only helps some means it is a preference and should likely not be factored into this thing we call skill (aka how-to-get-more-points).</2cents>
Also comparing to other rhythm games, the ability to change approach rate is usually a user setting which has no effect on score. Which is where this request stems from originally
.
Also comparing to other rhythm games, the ability to change approach rate is usually a user setting which has no effect on score. Which is where this request stems from originally
.Sorry but AR is something set by the mapper, this is A LOT more important to a map than a SB is and as such I think it should be left alone. Some maps would be made insanely easy with higher AR's which is completely unfair to older players.peppy wrote:
Consider that if it "only makes it easier for some", then there is probably no reason not to add it. Implying that it only helps some means it is a preference and should likely not be factored into this thing we call skill (aka how-to-get-more-points).</2cents>
Also comparing to other rhythm games, the ability to change approach rate is usually a user setting which has no effect on score. Which is where this request stems from originally
I also think it would be refreshing if we could throw away the whole "unfair to old plays" attitude and objectively consider possible improvements, but that is a hard fence to jump.
This is a great and a terrible thing, I wouldn't mind having some things changed but this is certainly one of the things I can see taking the charm out of a lot of maps.
mtmcl, kirby, djpop, reiken and even blue dragon are some of the most iconic mappers in osu! and they all have used low approach rate in their most impressive maps, it would be sad to see people beating them with high approach rates on their first and second try, it really does effect difficulty a lot more than people realise.
mtmcl, kirby, djpop, reiken and even blue dragon are some of the most iconic mappers in osu! and they all have used low approach rate in their most impressive maps, it would be sad to see people beating them with high approach rates on their first and second try, it really does effect difficulty a lot more than people realise.
What about making AR rate options open or closed to the users based on the mappers choice?
fair enough, but I'd like to see it off for older maps.RBRat3 wrote:
What about making AR rate options open or closed to the users based on the mappers choice?
I would only expect it to be applied to maps made after the implementation.
nah man. It should be applied on all the maps.RBRat3 wrote:
I would only expect it to be applied to maps made after the implementation.
theowest wrote:
nah man. It should be applied on all the maps.RBRat3 wrote:
I would only expect it to be applied to maps made after the implementation.
Having it go into effect for all will murder old scores and its unfair to those who earned them...
If you or anyone wanted it they could just ask the mapper for an AR opt-able map of the older beatmap that way its a fresh score slate. ( or just copy it yourself with permission and submit it )
Having it the way I just proposed would make everyone happy
-Oldhats keep their scores
-You get your feature
-Mappers can force AR Rate or keep it open by choice
-You can have an older beatmap AR opt-able upon request with a fresh score slate
Guys you're going in circles...
Once again, the only, literally the very single "problem" anybody raised for letting players change the AR on any map ever made to any AR they want on ranked play is that it would make certain plays easier and thus not deserving for the same score as default AR plays.
Solution: give it a score-reducing factor.
Isn't this enough? Why are you looking for other solutions? This is by far the most optimal one.
Only letting users pick higher AR: this is stupid. Reason: once you learn to read a certain AR level, it will ALWAYS be easier for you to play with it, regardless of map bpm. Which means all HR players would only play everything with AR10 and it would make everything much easier for them, and so on.
Like jesse said, a large part of the appeal in AR is actually the added difficulty from lower ARs (forcing you to remember more events ahead). If a feature exists to let users pick any AR they want, it should definitely let users pick lower ARs, because that'd be the most fun part of it.
Only allowing this on new maps: again, bad. Why would you take this freedom away from old maps? really no reason.
I still haven't seen anyone here state any reason why to not just let all users pick whatever AR they want for all maps ever with a score reducing effect. It's a win-win solution. Why the hell not? Why are you looking for anything else?
Once again, the only, literally the very single "problem" anybody raised for letting players change the AR on any map ever made to any AR they want on ranked play is that it would make certain plays easier and thus not deserving for the same score as default AR plays.
Solution: give it a score-reducing factor.
Isn't this enough? Why are you looking for other solutions? This is by far the most optimal one.
Only letting users pick higher AR: this is stupid. Reason: once you learn to read a certain AR level, it will ALWAYS be easier for you to play with it, regardless of map bpm. Which means all HR players would only play everything with AR10 and it would make everything much easier for them, and so on.
Like jesse said, a large part of the appeal in AR is actually the added difficulty from lower ARs (forcing you to remember more events ahead). If a feature exists to let users pick any AR they want, it should definitely let users pick lower ARs, because that'd be the most fun part of it.
Only allowing this on new maps: again, bad. Why would you take this freedom away from old maps? really no reason.
I still haven't seen anyone here state any reason why to not just let all users pick whatever AR they want for all maps ever with a score reducing effect. It's a win-win solution. Why the hell not? Why are you looking for anything else?
Rather than creating a duplicate map there are some BATs that can make changes to ranked maps, if the mapper wants to enable the AR change option they could ask a BAT to do the change and update the mapset.RBRat3 wrote:
If you or anyone wanted it they could just ask the mapper for an AR opt-able map of the older beatmap that way its a fresh score slate. ( or just copy it yourself with permission and submit it )
Still tho, i prefer just to be able to increase it as i said in my previous post.
"I would only expect it to be applied to maps made after the implementation." Meaning old maps and their scores go untouched and the feature locked out to its creator.Sakura wrote:
Rather than creating a duplicate map there are some BATs that can make changes to ranked maps, if the mapper wants to enable the AR change option they could ask a BAT to do the change and update the mapset.RBRat3 wrote:
If you or anyone wanted it they could just ask the mapper for an AR opt-able map of the older beatmap that way its a fresh score slate. ( or just copy it yourself with permission and submit it )
Still tho, i prefer just to be able to increase it as i said in my previous post.
I dont think its so bad seeing 2 difficulties
Normal open AR
Normal Fixed AR
The ability to read different approach rates is currently a required skill to become a top-tier osu! player. If everyone could use an approach rate that suited their preference, the game would be cheapened.
9 times out of 10 increasing AR makes it easier, that other 10% of the time only applies to very intense maps. It's unfair plain and simple, AR is a skill just like being able to do jumps, streams and complex patterns, it's part of the map which makes it hard. There is NO WAY to make this fair at all so the best option would be to leave it off. I don't think there is a single person here he can read every approach rate from 1 to 12. This kind of thing would make some DT scores completely pointless, look at mezame and bamboo dance for instance, niko-'s AR11 scores on those are hard due to the approach rate. Add this and AR11 scores will become completely irrelevant and I personally enjoy praising our asian overlords who manage AR11 FC's.Sakura wrote:
Rather than creating a duplicate map there are some BATs that can make changes to ranked maps, if the mapper wants to enable the AR change option they could ask a BAT to do the change and update the mapset.RBRat3 wrote:
If you or anyone wanted it they could just ask the mapper for an AR opt-able map of the older beatmap that way its a fresh score slate. ( or just copy it yourself with permission and submit it )
Still tho, i prefer just to be able to increase it as i said in my previous post.
Yeah, I know... I'd like to use it for decreases too. I've such a strong association with AR9 maps being whack-a-moleish that I regularly misjudge AR9 used appropriately as AR8 (and conversely, I have mistaken AR8 for AR9 when a map has very limited look ahead). I'd love to be able to tune those maps down to a level that actually makes it easier to see the patterns and learn the map. Trying to recognize patterns when you can only see a couple circles ahead is like trying to do it with flashlight on... you need to put things together in your head to see the picture, because it's never fully shown to you. And that's a lot more thinking and memorizing than I like to do while playing, because I'm only a casual player. I'd much rather be able to easily play a map at a lower AR to learn it at a penalty, then move on to the regular AR if I care for full points later... much the same way that I can practice a map without FL to learn it, and then try it with FL later for more points. One is applying blinders with space and the other with time.MillhioreF wrote:
increase only makes me sad, I do best with ar8... oh well~
I think it's safe to say that for everyone, there exists some maps that would be made easier by changing AR. Those maps will differ from person to person, and to the extent that AR is changed. This is true for most people even with AR only increasing (HR helped me even as a beginner to pass maps I would have had a hard time doing otherwise, and the main thing I was looking for was higher AR for a cleaner map, which would more than make up for any extra difficulty increase in the other factors). It can also be said that decreasing AR will at the very least make things easier for many people on some maps.peppy wrote:
Consider that if it "only makes it easier for some", then there is probably no reason not to add it. Implying that it only helps some means it is a preference and should likely not be factored into this thing we call skill (aka how-to-get-more-points).
Increasing helps people that have trained to react quickly, decreasing helps people that want more look ahead to read maps. These are two different skills, and both should probably be rewarded to some extent. Personally, I'd steer away from making preferences favour reaction time more than things currently do. That moves things further to becoming a twitch game and less of a music game.
Yeah, I don't see why either.Aqo wrote:
I still haven't seen anyone here state any reason why to not just let all users pick whatever AR they want for all maps ever with a score reducing effect. It's a win-win solution. Why the hell not? Why are you looking for anything else?
Never really thought about this but how about we use hard rock to increase the AR and easy to decrease it? Surely with that everyone is happy?
"but hard rock makes notes smaller cri cri cri." tough shit, you want your map to have a more readable approach rate you should deal with the map being harder (you even get a higher multiplier).
"but easy mod makes the AR too low!" but everything is easier, bigger notes, lower od and lower AR! can't do lower approach rate? tough shit!
"but hard rock makes notes smaller cri cri cri." tough shit, you want your map to have a more readable approach rate you should deal with the map being harder (you even get a higher multiplier).
"but easy mod makes the AR too low!" but everything is easier, bigger notes, lower od and lower AR! can't do lower approach rate? tough shit!
Now that i think of it, someone mentioned in here that the rate arrows/blocks/whatever fall/raise in those other rythm games was the equivalent to the AR in osu!, however that rate is also increased/decreased with BPM and works as a way of a multiplier, if AR is going to be compared with that, then it should be compared with BPM/Slider Vel as well, and mappers already set an AR that fits with the map's speed, i'd think if green lines modifying Speed could affect them would make the AR basically the same as those games.
But it doesnt work that way... so the analogy doesn't work.
But it doesnt work that way... so the analogy doesn't work.
Except Hard rock makes some maps actually easier due to the increase in ARjesus1412 wrote:
Never really thought about this but how about we use hard rock to increase the AR and easy to decrease it? Surely with that everyone is happy?
you know, if we are gonna go through with this, this should seriously probably go along with the "Easy Mode" mod discussion, where people have discussed the possibility of being able to adjust OD, AR, and HP to a certain extent. Easy Mode kinda does need some reworking anyways.
These same reasons are used to argue against the osz2 background removal limitation. Just sayin'.peppy wrote:
Consider that if it "only makes it easier for some", then there is probably no reason not to add it. Implying that it only helps some means it is a preference and should likely not be factored into this thing we call skill (aka how-to-get-more-points).</2cents>
Also comparing to other rhythm games, the ability to change approach rate is usually a user setting which has no effect on score. Which is where this request stems from originally
Wow... this is the first post i see from you I consider stupid.theowest wrote:
Current Priority: +265Most people think this is a good idea. Most of the people not agreeing with this doesn't even play much osu!
Anyway ... I have no problems at all if this has a negative factor on score. It doesn't have to be a huge jump like HT and NoFail (0,3x and 0,5x). Maybe somthing to 0,8 or 0,9x.
I can understand both sides... even though I am technicly on the contra side. (Only compromise is this reducing score multiplier for me
)People who use it to increase it are people who are better on high AR which means they have a advantage which is unfair ... I already see counter arguments for this one
But if they get an advantage why not give everyone an advantage by being able to de/increasing high AR?I really don't understand this "only being able to increase it" part.
But anyways ... I see it coming that most people vote for "Yes" orz
Whatever you do, please let us pick any lower AR too, not just higher. You can already pick higher with HR (altho it's limited in not being able to pick 9 on a map with 8, or anything above 10 without DT, so hopefully this will be addressed). Lower is problematic because EasyMod doesn't let you pick the range you want and there's a huge leap between 8>7>6>5>4.
[Edit] Gonna point this out again because not enough people seemed to have noticed it or it's just being ignored: (and those who noticed it agree so lets hear the others too)
Do you have any argument against letting users pick any AR for any map with a score reduction?
People who want to play with unique AR: can do it freely with no limitations, but can't use it to score against people who used default AR; because if you're picking a different AR it's most likely easier for you, and even if you're doing it to challenge yourself you won't care for score.
People who have to pass the challenge of map default AR: can score normally for 100% without suffering penalty of changed-AR, so they will always rank higher.
It's win-win. Nobody loses anything, everybody gets what they want.
[Edit] Gonna point this out again because not enough people seemed to have noticed it or it's just being ignored: (and those who noticed it agree so lets hear the others too)
Do you have any argument against letting users pick any AR for any map with a score reduction?
People who want to play with unique AR: can do it freely with no limitations, but can't use it to score against people who used default AR; because if you're picking a different AR it's most likely easier for you, and even if you're doing it to challenge yourself you won't care for score.
People who have to pass the challenge of map default AR: can score normally for 100% without suffering penalty of changed-AR, so they will always rank higher.
It's win-win. Nobody loses anything, everybody gets what they want.
People are only saying yes because it will be easier for them to get a higher score.
Why cant this just be a new difficulty reducing mod with a negative multiplier that allows any AR (lower or higher)?
Why cant this just be a new difficulty reducing mod with a negative multiplier that allows any AR (lower or higher)?
would be to easy and also there is no advantage for people who want a great rank easilyMakar wrote:
People are only saying yes because it will be easier for them to get a higher score.
Why cant this just be a new difficulty reducing mod with a negative multiplier that allows any AR (lower or higher)?
Got no problem with this, as long as it can be done on a per-map basis, because I'd probably want to go with whatever AR the mapper chose most of the time. This would be nice for those maps where the AR really should have been a notch higher or lower, though.
I don't play competitively in any capacity or care about my stats, so I have no opinion on the score change issue.
I don't play competitively in any capacity or care about my stats, so I have no opinion on the score change issue.
Kyou-kun wrote:
These same reasons are used to argue against the osz2 background removal limitation. Just sayin'.peppy wrote:
Consider that if it "only makes it easier for some", then there is probably no reason not to add it. Implying that it only helps some means it is a preference and should likely not be factored into this thing we call skill (aka how-to-get-more-points).</2cents>
Also comparing to other rhythm games, the ability to change approach rate is usually a user setting which has no effect on score. Which is where this request stems from originally
With a score reduction (50-70% loss..?), I don't see why this shouldn't be implemented. Just have a slider at the mods page for AR that drops the score multiplier as soon as you touch it.
Shut up and take my star!
Good idea, i can't wait for playing with higher AR 
where's the fun in this game then? ctb HR makes everything harder and if you change AR it's easy as hell, same with DT.. everyone can fc maps like airman and big black..
I don't know how this works in CTB but in Standard lower AR would make those two maps even harder than they are now lolCaCtus112 wrote:
everyone can fc maps like airman and big black..
if score is reduced there would be no problem either way