big black is unf*ckable even with AR8 or 9, I checked...CaCtus112 wrote:
where's the fun in this game then? ctb HR makes everything harder and if you change AR it's easy as hell, same with DT.. everyone can fc maps like airman and big black..
big black is unf*ckable even with AR8 or 9, I checked...CaCtus112 wrote:
where's the fun in this game then? ctb HR makes everything harder and if you change AR it's easy as hell, same with DT.. everyone can fc maps like airman and big black..
The reason why the approach rate increases by 1.5x and the reason why you have 2/3 the timing window to hit circles accurately is because everything time-related is multiplied by 1.5. Not because of what you said.benguin wrote:
As for complications with other mods. I'm sure flashlight and hidden might have to be tweaked a bit but I don't see much concern there. For doubletime, the reason why the approach rate increases for doubletime is to accommodate for the change of the speed of the map since higher bpm maps are typically a bit easier on a slightly faster AR (like I wouldn't dare play an [easy] map with AR9). The logic is that if a map is at x AR, then it would be optimal for most players to have the AR at ax+b to accommodate for the increase in bpm from doubletime (I don't know the a and b values, or even if it's a linear function or w/e so sorry >.<) This only works though if the original AR is optimal for each particular player which it isn't. Basically what I'm trying to say, is that if you can change the AR of the map with no mods, you should be able to do the same for the DT mod. Also, the mod is called is called "double time", not "double time plus additinoal AR." The extra AR that's added, is there to accommodate for the faster chart, but with user-defineable AR, people can figure that out for themselves.
Gomo Psivarh wrote:
I ONLY support that you can customize AR and the custom AR will neutralize score bonus from mods.
^thisDontBrownieMir wrote:
You guys are for real?
I mean..changing the AR is like a free ticked for "legit" cheaters :-/.
It would flood score rankings like Halftime.
This isn't skill...it's just "how to make this game easy".
I mean..if someone can't play AR8~9~10 yet then he has to improve him/herself to play it.
The only good thing with this AR option would be no score at all like Spunout was or autopilot or relax are.
My thoughts exactly. Though I would like to use this kind of feature for song training or simply for fun. There are certain songs that either go over the top or is too slow for my taste. But for fairness' sake this should be an UNRANKABLE feature, because we already have Mods that alter AR.DontBrownieMir wrote:
You guys are for real?
I mean..changing the AR is like a free ticked for "legit" cheaters :-/.
It would flood score rankings like Halftime.
This isn't skill...it's just "how to make this game easy".
I mean..if someone can't play AR8~9~10 yet then he has to improve him/herself to play it.
The only good thing with this AR option would be no score at all like Spunout was or autopilot or relax are.
CaCtus112 wrote:
^thisDontBrownieMir wrote:
You guys are for real?
I mean..changing the AR is like a free ticked for "legit" cheaters :-/.
It would flood score rankings like Halftime.
This isn't skill...it's just "how to make this game easy".
I mean..if someone can't play AR8~9~10 yet then he has to improve him/herself to play it.
The only good thing with this AR option would be no score at all like Spunout was or autopilot or relax are.
This is basically what I've been trying to say.Tanzklaue wrote:
if this ever gets implemented, but not bg-deleting, then I will question the mental health of peppy.
AR is a part of the map, not like some random BG, which everybody makes a fuss about. the mapper and modder try to find an AR for every map that fits. making it defineable would destroy the purpose of the mapper.
if it gets implemented, then only as a fun-mod, which goes up really high or down really low. never as a ranked mod. that would be, like some people said, legimate cheating.
@Aqo there are enough people who can't read AR 10 but could clear airman with AR 9. the average osu-player is able to read AR 7-9, but not 10. people like you who have serious problems with anything below AR9 are the exception.
CaCtus112 wrote:
^thisDontBrownieMir wrote:
You guys are for real?
I mean..changing the AR is like a free ticked for "legit" cheaters :-/.
It would flood score rankings like Halftime.
This isn't skill...it's just "how to make this game easy".
I mean..if someone can't play AR8~9~10 yet then he has to improve him/herself to play it.
The only good thing with this AR option would be no score at all like Spunout was or autopilot or relax are.
I like these~Tshemmp wrote:
0,9x score multiplier for each instance of changed AR seems fine to me. This means if you change the AR by 2 (up or down, doesn't matter) the score multiplier would be 0,9x * 0,9x = 0,81x.
ctb isn't rhythm based. therefore broken.CaCtus112 wrote:
where's the fun in this game then? ctb HR makes everything harder and if you change AR it's easy as hell, same with DT.. everyone can fc maps like airman and big black..
imo it's like giving the option to use cheats in a video game or not. It's easier, and to some it is more enjoyable, but too much of it will ruin a game. It makes things less interesting, and somewhat unfair. "He can read higher/lower AR than me! It's not fair! Let me choose to make it easier for me!" No, this is just part of skill. If a mapper chooses a bad AR for a map, then that's something to be fixed by modders and XATs, and if not, expect bad feedback from users. This feature should either not be implemented or come with a negative multiplier...theowest wrote:
also. If it makes it easier, it makes it more enjoyable. Everybody can tweak the AR so it's fair. Right?
More fun for everyone.
osu! isn't "all the other rhythm games." osu! already does many things that the other games do not, which is probably why we have so many users here. Comparing to other games is not much of an argument here because of that.theowest wrote:
dude, all the other rhythm games have it.
What are you saying?theowest wrote:
you can't say it's unfair if it's not unfair for every fucking person on this planet.
Honestly is seems that other rhythm games do not put much thought into readability. Because of how our ranking system is and our process here compared to other places, using a mapper-defined AR works better than it would if it was on other games. Of course, it will "work" with osu!, but mapper-defined is much better for all the reasons I have previously said as well as others.theowest wrote:
It works in other rhythm games, why shouldn't it work with osu?
It is like osu! if it has an approach rate.
Okay, then how is it unfair to me and not others? Explain moretheowest wrote:
I'm saying it's only unfair for you. Not for me or my brother. It might be unfair for your sister but not for your brother.
Yes it does, that's the point of this thread: Make AR customizable so it is easier.theowest wrote:
but approach rates still doesn't make shit harder/easier
So that it is easy for everyone. Not just the ones who's good at that AR. It's the rhythmic skill and precision which counts in the end.Yes it does, that's the point of this thread: Make AR customizable so it is easier.theowest wrote:
but approach rates still doesn't make shit harder/easier
I know it was an example, but I wanted a specific case on where it would be unfair to just one person.theowest wrote:
It was just an example. It doesn't apply to everyone. It does not make everything harder for everyone.
But with a user definable option, everyone will be able to pick their preferable AR. That's right, even you. Everyone happy.
You should probably re-read my post again because you haven't made an argument about why being able to change something that requires skill is a bad idea.theowest wrote:
The notes always play at the same speed. ARs doesn't change the speed.
The point of this thread is that the beatmapper doesn't know shit about what you can do, so you have to make sure it's right for you, so you can enjoy the beatmap as much as possible. That's the point. If everyone can change the AR to whatever they want, then everyone will be happy.
How does AR not make it easier or harder? How does it not change gameplay? It's a readability skill. AR can even make or break a map if not used properly (which is why it goes through modding)theowest wrote:
BPM, slider velocity, distance between notes, distance in time between notes, OD, HP drain rate, circle size. That's everything which makes a beatmap harder/easier.
It doesn't change the gameplay, compared to Half Time or any other mod which truly makes it easier or harder.
They don't know what's best for everyone. Even if they mod, there will still be people not agreeing. There are always beatmaps with ARs people don't agree with. If everyone could pick their own AR, everyone would have that advantage. Everyone will be happy. No matter how you play, it will always be fair this way. Because everyone picked their own AR they prefer to play with. Playing with Half time WILL make it easier. ANY map, for EVERYONE. Playing with doubletime WILL make it harder, for EVERYONE. Playing with hidden, hardrock, flashlight, will make it harder. The easy mod in this situation is one fucked up mod, so let's not talk about that for now.Makar wrote:
You should probably re-read my post again because you haven't made an argument about why being able to change something that requires skill is a bad idea.theowest wrote:
The notes always play at the same speed. ARs doesn't change the speed.
The point of this thread is that the beatmapper doesn't know shit about what you can do, so you have to make sure it's right for you, so you can enjoy the beatmap as much as possible. That's the point. If everyone can change the AR to whatever they want, then everyone will be happy.
AR checks are done through modding - just like note density - to insure it is not completely unreadable.How does AR not make it easier or harder? How does it not change gameplay? It's a readability skill. AR can even make or break a map if not used properly (which is why it goes through modding)theowest wrote:
BPM, slider velocity, distance between notes, distance in time between notes, OD, HP drain rate, circle size. That's everything which makes a beatmap harder/easier.
It doesn't change the gameplay, compared to Half Time or any other mod which truly makes it easier or harder.
Good. Then we're agreed that Hidden and Flashlight should be worth 1.00x, because they change none of those things. Same BPM, same sliders, same distances, same OD, same drain, and the same circle size. And just like AR, once you've memorized a map, you can play it AR13, Hidden, and Flashlight with no difference from playing it any other way... because none of these things change the map in a way that makes it easier or harder, or even different. All three do exactly the same thing... control the flow of information, but not alter it. Which is a good reason to be wary of just making AR a preference... the same sort of thing is rewarded elsewhere, and things that get score rewards are considered "skill". This is not a trivial choice to make and has to be done right.theowest wrote:
BPM, slider velocity, distance between notes, distance in time between notes, OD, HP drain rate, circle size. That's everything which makes a beatmap harder/easier.
It doesn't change the gameplay, compared to Half Time or any other mod which truly makes it easier or harder.
theowest wrote:
The notes always play at the same speed. ARs doesn't change the speed.
The point of this thread is that the beatmapper doesn't know shit about what you can do, so you have to make sure it's right for you, so you can enjoy the beatmap as much as possible. That's the point. If everyone can change the AR to whatever they want, then everyone will be happy.
BPM, slider velocity, distance between notes, distance in time between notes, OD, HP drain rate, circle size. That's everything which makes a beatmap harder/easier.
It doesn't change the gameplay, compared to Half Time or any other mod which truly makes it easier or harder.