The current plan is to make a customizable Easy mod? The 30% multiplier should keep everyone from using the settings they find easiest on everything.
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Make Approach Rate function for user definable option
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Do you support user-definable AR in ranked play?
Total votes: 189
Polling ended
I guess
I honestly this thread died a couple months ago
If it happeneds... make sure every approach rate counts the percentage of the score =D
I personally won't see this happening though, unless it is in a form of an Unrankable mod (like Relax, Auto-Pilot, Spun Out, and Auto mods).
On off-topic note, I find myself challenged on playing this beatmap with Easy+HalfTime+Hidden mod, and I successfully SS'd there. I just want the shiny silver SSH rank there.
On off-topic note, I find myself challenged on playing this beatmap with Easy+HalfTime+Hidden mod, and I successfully SS'd there. I just want the shiny silver SSH rank there.
^ I agree with this.Autonom wrote:
i would say no to this, the AR is part of the beatmap :/
yeah! can't have this as a ranked modwaitwut is a ranked mod 
I don't know if this has been said already but I think something like this would work well. Since approach rates below a certain number just make the map hard to read and no fun to play whatsoever, how about just making the lowest possible approach rate that number (8 I think, idk the specific rates) and only have a couple different rates going up from that. There would only be a couple possible rates, essentially just eschewing the way low ones. This way hard rock still makes it harder like it should and nothing really gets broken except for way old beatmaps that use awful approach rates. I don't know, but I have used hard rock on some maps to make it EASIER because the approach rate was so awful, which is counter-intuitive. Just a thought, but I honestly don't mind the approach rates as they are, especially since 90% of maps use agreeable ones. As a side-note, I don't think that the AR is part of the beatmap because the notes are going to be hit at the same times regardless of the AR. I feel like the AR is just a way to fluctuate difficulty and that's all it is. Saying that the AR is part of the map's style or that it would mess with the map artists' desired way to play it is dumb. *shrug*
it's not fair to the people who set scores without changing AR
this would have been good if it was here from the start
but it's too late now
it'd just make maps easier since players find high ARs easier than low ARs (well, some/most do)
this would have been good if it was here from the start
but it's too late now
it'd just make maps easier since players find high ARs easier than low ARs (well, some/most do)
yeah, being able to change it as you wish definitely wouldn't work, but I feel like there are ways out there, and I definitely feel like low rates are a problem. I don't thiink ANYONE who plays maps above like 1 star find lower approach rates easier. I get the feeling that 99% of people just find them annoying and ruin the map.
they aren't really
it's just that it's harder to focus on complicated patterns with an overwhelming amount of objects on the screen for some people (myself including, ar9 maste race)
most ranked maps are fine; some are hard to read because of the low ar, but that doesn't make it a problem
easy mode, however, that's a different story
it's just that it's harder to focus on complicated patterns with an overwhelming amount of objects on the screen for some people (myself including, ar9 maste race)
most ranked maps are fine; some are hard to read because of the low ar, but that doesn't make it a problem
easy mode, however, that's a different story
yeah I don't think that anything even NEEDS to be done about it, but I like my idea lol
all in all not that big of an issue; I'd rather see the time spent developing touhosu or something than coming up with a solution for this
all in all not that big of an issue; I'd rather see the time spent developing touhosu or something than coming up with a solution for this
^thats right~ykcarrot wrote:
If player can adjust AR, score should be ignored.
^yepdvorak wrote:
Map is Art?
if this gets ranked(?) i would set low ar on all maps lol
Ah, so you're a masochist.gat1toneku wrote:
if this gets ranked(?) i would set low ar on all maps lol
Now this is what I think,
It should be like an Easy mod, you can change the AR to whatever AR you want EXCEPT any AR higher than the beatmap's AR. If it's AR9 for the beatmap, then you will not be able to change it into AR10.
If you want to use AR8 on an AR9 beatmap, then I think you should get less points. Like an easy mod.
Now there is some old beatmaps with ridiculously low ARs, but you could just use hardrock for them.
I'm thinking it would be unfair for those who cannot use AR10 if higher ARs than the beatmap with for example AR9 should be allowed.
It should be like an Easy mod, you can change the AR to whatever AR you want EXCEPT any AR higher than the beatmap's AR. If it's AR9 for the beatmap, then you will not be able to change it into AR10.
If you want to use AR8 on an AR9 beatmap, then I think you should get less points. Like an easy mod.
Now there is some old beatmaps with ridiculously low ARs, but you could just use hardrock for them.
I'm thinking it would be unfair for those who cannot use AR10 if higher ARs than the beatmap with for example AR9 should be allowed.
it already is an unranked mod.
Just pick your map, edit it, go to song settings, click the difficulty tab then change the approach rate.
I really don't see how this could even work.
1. HardRock/EasyMode affect AR.I think this alone would discount the possibility of an official option to change the AR at will.
2. If it were an unrankable mod, what would the interface be to change the AR? An entirely new interface would have to be designed just for this.
3. This could open up exploits for hackers to change the AR in ranked maps using a third party program that mirrors the interface of the "unranked mod" so that it can be used in a ranked setting.
4. Wouldn't it be annoying if you had to reset the AR you wanted to do every time you turned the mod off? Unless you want to play every song at a particular AR. I would also like to point out that there is currently no way of knowing the exact AR without going into the editor. There's currently no way of knowing whether a particular AR will work well until you play, and unless you turn the mod off, or know exactly how to adjust AR per song/difficulty, playing with the proper AR on a song will be difficult and cumbersome.
1. HardRock/EasyMode affect AR.I think this alone would discount the possibility of an official option to change the AR at will.
2. If it were an unrankable mod, what would the interface be to change the AR? An entirely new interface would have to be designed just for this.
3. This could open up exploits for hackers to change the AR in ranked maps using a third party program that mirrors the interface of the "unranked mod" so that it can be used in a ranked setting.
4. Wouldn't it be annoying if you had to reset the AR you wanted to do every time you turned the mod off? Unless you want to play every song at a particular AR. I would also like to point out that there is currently no way of knowing the exact AR without going into the editor. There's currently no way of knowing whether a particular AR will work well until you play, and unless you turn the mod off, or know exactly how to adjust AR per song/difficulty, playing with the proper AR on a song will be difficult and cumbersome.
I like this idea because of all the rythm games I've played. Osu is the only one that has no adjustments for speed readings.
それぞれが合うARを選べたら良いなとは思う。
選択出来るようになったら、推奨AR表示があると尚良いかも。
選択出来るようになったら、推奨AR表示があると尚良いかも。
In English.kaGemi0119 wrote:
それぞれが合うARを選べたら良いなとは思う。
選択出来るようになったら、推奨AR表示があると尚良いかも。
I don't really like the idea of this, but I agree with theowest. I can see this happening as a mod. But I still think it's pretty unnecessary for this game.theowest wrote:
Now this is what I think,
It should be like an Easy mod, you can change the AR to whatever AR you want EXCEPT any AR higher than the beatmap's AR. If it's AR9 for the beatmap, then you will not be able to change it into AR10.
If you want to use AR8 on an AR9 beatmap, then I think you should get less points. Like an easy mod.
Now there is some old beatmaps with ridiculously low ARs, but you could just use hardrock for them.
I'm thinking it would be unfair for those who cannot use AR10 if higher ARs than the beatmap with for example AR9 should be allowed.
I actually changed my mind about a few things.
The AR isn't very skill-based. Every other option is.
Let the players pick whatever AR they want and that's that. Not effecting points.
The AR isn't very skill-based. Every other option is.
Let the players pick whatever AR they want and that's that. Not effecting points.
dvorak wrote:
Since everyone has their own unique best AR for themselves, is there any point to keep AR on mappers side?
Readability Problem? Map is Art? Everyone have their own thought and eye/ability for such kind of game.
I want to know many opinions from mapper/players side
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表題-アプローチレートをユーザー側で調整できるオプションにしない？
十人十色というように、大体の人は自分に一番いいアプローチレート=AR（わっかが閉じる速度）がありますが
それをMapperサイドに置いておく意味ってなんだろう？
見やすさの問題？ 譜面は芸術かな？ 誰でも自分の目や能力にあったARが有るし自分の意見もあるよね。
マッパーとプレイヤー両方からの意見、なるべく多く聞きたいので日本語でもいいので意見があれば書いてください。
もちろん反対意見も求む、というより反対意見の方が大事。
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每個人都有自己能夠讀的最適AR,是否該讓mapper握有AR的控制權?
讀譜的問題或是map本身的藝術感問題?每個人都有自己的一套想法吧?
我希望能得到mapper/player們的各方意見
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각자 자신에게 알맞는 AR이 따로 존재하기 때문에 꼭 매퍼가 AR을 정하지 않아도 된다고 생각합니다. / 가독성? 맵의 예술성? 이들의 기준은 개개인에 따라 모두 다르다고 생각됩니다. / 매퍼 그리고 플레이어 모두의 입장에서 다양한 의견을 들어보고 싶습니다
(thanks KRZY)
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หัวเรื่อง : ทำให้ฝ่ายผู้เล่นปรับความเร็วของ วงแหวน AR ได้ดีมั้ย ?
แต่ละท่านก็มีความถนัดไม่ตรงกัน และแต่ละคนก็มีความเร็ว AR ที่ตัวเองถนัด
แต่มัเหตผลอะไรที่ต้องวางระบบตั้งไว้ที่ฝั่งคนทำ MAP อย่างเดียว ?
เพื่อความชอบ ? เพื่อดูเป็นผลงานศิลปะของคนทำ ? แต่ว่าแต่ละคนก็มีความเร็วที่ตัวเองถนัดใช่มั้ยล่ะ ?
(thanks S i R i R u)
+1
i'd say we can increase the AR, yet we can't decrease the AR..
i guess that'd be easier for people who's comfortable with AR 9 
i guess that'd be easier for people who's comfortable with AR 9
*AR10-Sylvette- wrote:
i guess that'd be easier for people who's comfortable with AR 9
AR9 is like uuuuggghh pattiieencceeee don't hit that circle yet... not yet.... argh pfft a 100 hit it too early...
AR8 is already masochism
sounds to me like you need more practice in this game, low ar ftwAqo wrote:
*AR10-Sylvette- wrote:
i guess that'd be easier for people who's comfortable with AR 9
AR9 is like uuuuggghh pattiieencceeee don't hit that circle yet... not yet.... argh pfft a 100 hit it too early...
AR8 is already masochism
Tom69_old
I totally support this, even though there will be one big change:
MANY HR+HD+DT ranks. Really, a lot, on the easier maps though. This would also open a possibility for an even bigger challenge on already hard DT maps.
Another thing which probably doesn't belong here would be adding .5 ARs. There are so many maps where AR9 feels too slow and AR10 feels too fast. Something like 9.5 would be really awesome.
MANY HR+HD+DT ranks. Really, a lot, on the easier maps though. This would also open a possibility for an even bigger challenge on already hard DT maps.
Another thing which probably doesn't belong here would be adding .5 ARs. There are so many maps where AR9 feels too slow and AR10 feels too fast. Something like 9.5 would be really awesome.
I'm still wondering if this request will ever be granted.
This is the only request that can make the game more flexible and we'll see a lot of people stop complaining how fast or slow the AR is.
I also want a taste of that AR 9.5 ;_;
This is the only request that can make the game more flexible and we'll see a lot of people stop complaining how fast or slow the AR is.
I also want a taste of that AR 9.5 ;_;
this is makes fast AR training useless 
I could see this working if definable AR were only allowed if you're playing the map normally without any mods. Slapping any scoring mods on top would then otherwise disable the definable AR feature to keep scoring more fair and balanced on the rankings I suppose.
...What? Seriously?
Won't this make the game easier?
Leave the difficulty as it is, no need for this.
Won't this make the game easier?
Leave the difficulty as it is, no need for this.
I'm totally against this.
The AR is something the mapper chooses to fit the song and the map. It's a part of how the mapper wants his map to look like in the end. This is like changing the map itself.
Also, since there are players who can't read AR below AR8 because they got used to high AR already, and players who can't read AR10 because they didn't practice enough yet, this would make some maps far easier for some people.
I would consider this cheating, actually. You can't change the Drain or the OD either, can you?
The AR is something the mapper chooses to fit the song and the map. It's a part of how the mapper wants his map to look like in the end. This is like changing the map itself.
Also, since there are players who can't read AR below AR8 because they got used to high AR already, and players who can't read AR10 because they didn't practice enough yet, this would make some maps far easier for some people.
I would consider this cheating, actually. You can't change the Drain or the OD either, can you?
How about this: give it a score-reducing effect.
i.e. users have an option every time they play a map, to either:
1. Play it with mapper's AR, and score on it normally
2. Pick their own AR, and then score is reduced to 50% similar to EasyMod, except without an effect on circle size etc, and with letting you pick /any/ AR you want.
Also, it would be nice if there was a bigger range indeed. Instead of just 0-10 with 1x increments, 0-11 with 0.33x increments, so that you can pick 9.3, 9.6, 10, 10.3, 10.6, that would be great. It would be a fun option that people can use similar to EasyMod today without worrying about how this affects ranking. Sure, you'd be able to top-score with an AR of your choice, but lets be realistic it's not that hard to read mapper-default AR and a 50% reduction won't make this mode a popular scoring method; thus I'll be just an option for fun. I'd suggest making it unranked but since the current stance is against unranked plays, ranked with reduced score seems like the best compromise... or to put it shortly, it's win-win. You can play with whatever AR you want if you just play for fun, or you have to accept the mapper AR as part of the map difficulty when you're playing for score.
This is reasonable isn't it?
i.e. users have an option every time they play a map, to either:
1. Play it with mapper's AR, and score on it normally
2. Pick their own AR, and then score is reduced to 50% similar to EasyMod, except without an effect on circle size etc, and with letting you pick /any/ AR you want.
Also, it would be nice if there was a bigger range indeed. Instead of just 0-10 with 1x increments, 0-11 with 0.33x increments, so that you can pick 9.3, 9.6, 10, 10.3, 10.6, that would be great. It would be a fun option that people can use similar to EasyMod today without worrying about how this affects ranking. Sure, you'd be able to top-score with an AR of your choice, but lets be realistic it's not that hard to read mapper-default AR and a 50% reduction won't make this mode a popular scoring method; thus I'll be just an option for fun. I'd suggest making it unranked but since the current stance is against unranked plays, ranked with reduced score seems like the best compromise... or to put it shortly, it's win-win. You can play with whatever AR you want if you just play for fun, or you have to accept the mapper AR as part of the map difficulty when you're playing for score.
This is reasonable isn't it?
If we have a score reducing affect it would totally have my supportAqo wrote:
How about this: give it a score-reducing effect.
i.e. users have an option every time they play a map, to either:
1. Play it with mapper's AR, and score on it normally
2. Pick their own AR, and then score is reduced to 50% similar to EasyMod, except without an effect on circle size etc, and with letting you pick /any/ AR you want.
Also, it would be nice if there was a bigger range indeed. Instead of just 0-10 with 1x increments, 0-11 with 0.33x increments, so that you can pick 9.3, 9.6, 10, 10.3, 10.6, that would be great. It would be a fun option that people can use similar to EasyMod today without worrying about how this affects ranking. Sure, you'd be able to top-score with an AR of your choice, but lets be realistic it's not that hard to read mapper-default AR and a 50% reduction won't make this mode a popular scoring method; thus I'll be just an option for fun. I'd suggest making it unranked but since the current stance is against unranked plays, ranked with reduced score seems like the best compromise... or to put it shortly, it's win-win. You can play with whatever AR you want if you just play for fun, or you have to accept the mapper AR as part of the map difficulty when you're playing for score.
This is reasonable isn't it?
Oooor Just make Easy mod give you the option to set difficulty settings. This has been suggested before and I wish it would get more attention.Aqo wrote:
How about this: give it a score-reducing effect.
i.e. users have an option every time they play a map, to either:
1. Play it with mapper's AR, and score on it normally
2. Pick their own AR, and then score is reduced to 50% similar to EasyMod, except without an effect on circle size etc, and with letting you pick /any/ AR you want.
Also, it would be nice if there was a bigger range indeed. Instead of just 0-10 with 1x increments, 0-11 with 0.33x increments, so that you can pick 9.3, 9.6, 10, 10.3, 10.6, that would be great. It would be a fun option that people can use similar to EasyMod today without worrying about how this affects ranking. Sure, you'd be able to top-score with an AR of your choice, but lets be realistic it's not that hard to read mapper-default AR and a 50% reduction won't make this mode a popular scoring method; thus I'll be just an option for fun. I'd suggest making it unranked but since the current stance is against unranked plays, ranked with reduced score seems like the best compromise... or to put it shortly, it's win-win. You can play with whatever AR you want if you just play for fun, or you have to accept the mapper AR as part of the map difficulty when you're playing for score.
This is reasonable isn't it?
On Topic: If it reduces score, sure.
No, what.
Some people find higher ARs easier than slower, and vice versa. ARs are completely subjective and should therefore be definable as an option by you.
Higher ARs does not make it harder or easier for everyone. It's up to the player.
Some people find higher ARs easier than slower, and vice versa. ARs are completely subjective and should therefore be definable as an option by you.
Higher ARs does not make it harder or easier for everyone. It's up to the player.
if a player has problems with AR6 but not with 10 then it should reduce scores anyway Anything that makes it easier for players should reduce scores ^^
Yes let's make easy mod let you choose the AR
Anything that makes it easier for players should reduce scores ^^Yes let's make easy mod let you choose the AR
ARs have this magical thing about themtheowest wrote:
No, what.
Some people find higher ARs easier than slower, and vice versa. ARs are completely subjective and should therefore be definable as an option by you.
Higher ARs does not make it harder or easier for everyone. It's up to the player.
If you can read two levels of AR, the higher one will ALWAYS be easier for you regardless of whatever speed the map is.
If you can't read a certain level of AR, then it will obviously be harder for you than ARs below it that you can read.
So to put it shortly, higher ARs are generally /easier/ than lower ARs, but they have a minimum training requirement to play with and thus unavailable for some players.
Long story short: AR *is* related to map difficulty. This is not subjective. Lower AR always makes a map harder, but a higher AR will be harder than a lower AR if you can't read it at all. It's not a gray area, it's just different for each person based on their abilities at a point of time.
The point is... being able to change the AR of a map *does* change the difficulty of the map. That's why it would be unfair if this didn't affect score.
Nope.
It's a matter of changing the AR to the player who can play it the best. Let's say a beatmapper picks one AR and one AR only. That means only a few people will think this AR is perfect while everyone else has to suffer.
Now, if everyone could change their AR to their own liking, everything would be fair and square.
The OD makes the beatmap harder/easier. AR does not.
It's a matter of changing the AR to the player who can play it the best. Let's say a beatmapper picks one AR and one AR only. That means only a few people will think this AR is perfect while everyone else has to suffer.
Now, if everyone could change their AR to their own liking, everything would be fair and square.
The OD makes the beatmap harder/easier. AR does not.
You are adjusting something in the map to make it easier for you; therefore, it should reduce score as a difficulty reducing mod should.
You are wrong if you say AR doesn't affect the difficulty of maps: that's the whole point of this feature request
You are wrong if you say AR doesn't affect the difficulty of maps: that's the whole point of this feature request
If it were going to affect the difficulty of maps, it would effect the difficulty for everyone. In this case, it doesn't.
It's subjective.
It's subjective.
What are you saying?theowest wrote:
If it were going to affect the difficulty of maps, it would effect the difficulty for everyone. In this case, it doesn't.
It's subjective.
For some people, Halftime is harder to play as accurately because of BPM. It doesn't reduce difficulty for everybody, yet it is still a option to people who find normal BPM too hard and it reduces Difficulty. It's impossible to satisfy everybody, and theoretical difficulty reductions that don't apply to everybody will always exist as a difficulty reducing mod, so your point isn't really valid.
No you kinda miss the point again.theowest wrote:
If it were going to affect the difficulty of maps, it would effect the difficulty for everyone. In this case, it doesn't.
It's subjective.
The AR that a mapper chooses for a map is part of that map's difficulty. This is for /everyone/ who plays that map. If some people have an easier time with that AR it means they're more comfortable with it, which is on the same level of a streaming player being more comfortable in a stream map compared to a jump player, it doesn't change the fact that it's a difficulty everybody has to deal with and yet some people would be better or worse than others on it.
Changing the AR changes the difficulty of the map. Thus it should change score.
Actually, that's the definition of subjective... different for each person, as opposed to objective, which would be universally the same for everyone.Aqo wrote:
Long story short: AR *is* related to map difficulty. This is not subjective. Lower AR always makes a map harder, but a higher AR will be harder than a lower AR if you can't read it at all. It's not a gray area, it's just different for each person based on their abilities at a point of time.
But other than that, I agree with you... higher ARs are easier until they cross a subjective level. Although, I've found that the level might be lower than what you can technically read... too high AR can cross the point where a map loses most of it's read ahead... which can change things into a different game, a sort of twitchy whack-a-mole (which is easy if like and practice that, but it's a different skill set than if you're used to read ahead... so it's subjective). It can also make a map feel too jumpy, with distracting high energy approach circles on a comparatively mellow song, this can result in HD making things easier.
The thing isn't so much that AR can be a subjective factor for difficulty. Being able to change the AR means that songs can be made easier, for whatever value is appropriate subjectively, on a per user basis. That's why a score penalty might be appropriate.
I'm supporting Theowests's opinion on this.
This game is more on Accuracy and Aim NOT on how fast or slow you can read the notes.
and about HR being easier when AR is lowered down- Seriously? It's still hard to get aim and get a better accuracy even with lower AR. It still fucking increases the OD , makes the cirlces smaller and adds more drain to the life. You're just limiting the players who could/should play HR which doesn't even make sense on a rythm game. There's a reason why most of Korean/Japanese Rythm games have control of the speed reading, it's because the creators want to maximize every player's potential on how they play it either be fast or slow in the end it still depends who's the most accurate player.
This game is more on Accuracy and Aim NOT on how fast or slow you can read the notes.
and about HR being easier when AR is lowered down- Seriously? It's still hard to get aim and get a better accuracy even with lower AR. It still fucking increases the OD , makes the cirlces smaller and adds more drain to the life. You're just limiting the players who could/should play HR which doesn't even make sense on a rythm game. There's a reason why most of Korean/Japanese Rythm games have control of the speed reading, it's because the creators want to maximize every player's potential on how they play it either be fast or slow in the end it still depends who's the most accurate player.
the problem is how.Aqo wrote:
No you kinda miss the point again.theowest wrote:
If it were going to affect the difficulty of maps, it would effect the difficulty for everyone. In this case, it doesn't.
It's subjective.
The AR that a mapper chooses for a map is part of that map's difficulty. This is for /everyone/ who plays that map. If some people have an easier time with that AR it means they're more comfortable with it, which is on the same level of a streaming player being more comfortable in a stream map compared to a jump player, it doesn't change the fact that it's a difficulty everybody has to deal with and yet some people would be better or worse than others on it.
Changing the AR changes the difficulty of the map. Thus it should change score.
Cause someone have easier time with higher AR, someone have easier time with lower AR.
Maybe just do something similar to how I seen in Beats ( Speed multiplier.... )... like an AR multiplier, but make it "max" from 0.75x to 1.25x with jumps of 0.05x (0.75x,0.80x,0.85x and so). Maybe -0.5 to +0.5 (not a multiplier, a sum) is another idea
Trying to the read true AR 11 with OD 10 is a shit ton harder than reading AR 9 with OD 10. Even just doing AR 10 is a decent amount harder than AR 9 and OD 10. It's just training your reaction, and it's like learning to play a certain type of pattern. For example, having sixteenth note kick sliders (that can be played like 1/2 tick notes or eight notes) can be hard to read for some people at first, but after time, you get the reaction time to understand what type of pattern it is faster and are able to adjust accordingly. Same with AR. AR is a skill, and imo it is very different from how fast those blocks/arrows/whatever move in different rhythm games.rickyboi wrote:
I'm supporting Theowests's opinion on this.
This game is more on Accuracy and Aim NOT on how fast or slow you can read the notes.
and about HR being easier when AR is lowered down- Seriously? It's still hard to get aim and get a better accuracy even with lower AR. It still fucking increases the OD , makes the cirlces smaller and adds more drain to the life. You're just limiting the players who could/should play HR which doesn't even make sense on a rythm game. There's a reason why most of Korean/Japanese Rythm games have control of the speed reading, it's because the creators want to maximize every player's potential on how they play it either be fast or slow in the end it still depends who's the most accurate player.
AR imo is something kinda special and unique to osu! which I like (not because I can somewhat read the faster AR's), but I remember clearly that even when I couldn't even read AR 10 and barely AR 9.5, which was around the time this thread was made, I still completely disagreed with this.
Furthermore, this completely messes up every single possible DT/HR score out there if implemented.
Also it just feels like we are trying to progress to the norm. AR is an interesting twist on most things and keeping it that way would add more to osu! as a game imo.
This is fundamentally breaks
the gameplay, very easy game
and it is, therefore, leads to
changes in the algorithm of
the scoring... A further
develop logic. Although this
idea is part of some
"ideological" project in osu!, I
would not want to see this in PC
version of the game, in which we all played,
play and will play. I do not
support.
the gameplay, very easy game
and it is, therefore, leads to
changes in the algorithm of
the scoring... A further
develop logic. Although this
idea is part of some
"ideological" project in osu!, I
would not want to see this in PC
version of the game, in which we all played,
play and will play. I do not
support.
Let me put up a question
If the players could control the AR on an unrankable mode, i.e. you could play unranked with any AR you want, do you support or oppose this?
Try to ignore the current stance against unranked plays. Just the mere concept of letting players play with whatever AR they want for fun, without ranking, this doesn't hurt anybody does it? Support or no?
If the players could control the AR on an unrankable mode, i.e. you could play unranked with any AR you want, do you support or oppose this?
Try to ignore the current stance against unranked plays. Just the mere concept of letting players play with whatever AR they want for fun, without ranking, this doesn't hurt anybody does it? Support or no?
I'd support, but of course that won't happen since peppy is against unranked mods.Aqo wrote:
Let me put up a question
If the players could control the AR on an unrankable mode, i.e. you could play unranked with any AR you want, do you support or oppose this?
Try to ignore the current stance against unranked plays. Just the mere concept of letting players play with whatever AR they want for fun, without ranking, this doesn't hurt anybody does it? Support or no?
I would support, if osu! was not competitive, because it gives the user more flexibility. Offline games are made to cater to pretty much as many people as possible. It's kinda like hacking offline games, no one really gives a crap, and many find it fun, too. Most of the time, offline games aren't very skill based, or don't require much skill to play decently and have fun.Aqo wrote:
Let me put up a question
If the players could control the AR on an unrankable mode, i.e. you could play unranked with any AR you want, do you support or oppose this?
Try to ignore the current stance against unranked plays. Just the mere concept of letting players play with whatever AR they want for fun, without ranking, this doesn't hurt anybody does it? Support or no?
Once you reach a worldwide scale with competition, you can't really take something essential out of the gameplay. Pardon this piano example, but for instance, if I were to practice my ass off playing something hard, e.g. the Mephisto Waltz or something, for a competition, and then the competition rules completely changed, so that the speed and technique required of the song is not going to be judged whatsoever, some kid could play some Bach Prelude and Fugue perfectly and extremely musically with no mistakes and beat me in the competition, despite how much more amazing my performance sounded (depending on how unclear or inaccuractely I played the notes in the Mephisto Waltz). Now, AR is a very important part of osu! as speed and technique is to piano (well, speed isn't as important, but meh). Basically what's happening is you are giving the kid who plays that Bach Prelude and Fugue to match up with some professional. In any sort of competitive thing, it is completely illogical to do such a thing unless the kid really deserves it with hard work and practice. Some people just have the piano talent, and some people don't. So if that's the case, are you agreeing that the average/pretty good piano kid is on par with the professional? Some people have better reaction times, because either they just have it, or because they actually trained it through other means, rather than perhaps some kid who sits around all day watching TV (I'm not saying that's you guys
lol). AR is pretty similar.Now, saying that, it makes it look like I'm mad because if this does get implemented many people who can't read fast AR will now most likely be able to rank just as high as many of the pros who mainly HR. And I do stick to that point, that YES, approach rate really does matter and mess up accuracy, but as I already stated earlier, I have had this exact mentality that allowing for approach rate to be changed is nonsense almost ever since I started playing. All I thought is "Okay, if this is how osu! is, if this is how the game is supposed to be play, I will work my way up there." When the thread was made, and I couldn't even read AR 9.5, I did not agree. (After some work, I can read the so-called AR10.33)
After your entire post W1 I can't understand why you quoted my post. You didn't answer the question.
Are you for or against allowing to play with any AR you want /unranked/, i.e. you won't be able to use this for the competitive scene, only for singleplayer fun.
Are you for or against allowing to play with any AR you want /unranked/, i.e. you won't be able to use this for the competitive scene, only for singleplayer fun.
The first three words of my monologue answered the question. The first paragraph was a little more detail the unranked aspect of this request.
The rest of the paragraphs were in response to allowing for players to change AR even for ranked plays.
The rest of the paragraphs were in response to allowing for players to change AR even for ranked plays.
hey, lets make it so you can change the circle size, od and life drain aswell.
i totally dont support this, AR is part of the map. and if you want to play with a different AR, fine, but then you play unranked.
its like getting rid of a stream and put a slider or a spinner or something because you cant play streams.
i totally dont support this, AR is part of the map. and if you want to play with a different AR, fine, but then you play unranked.
its like getting rid of a stream and put a slider or a spinner or something because you cant play streams.
how about allowing to choose from -0.5 to +0.5 so, if a map has AR9, you can choose from AR8.5 to AR9.5 ?
I am unsure of whether adding this is a good idea or not. My personal opinion is that it should be allowed (with possible restrictions or changes for HD/FL to ensure visibility is the same), but even after reading through this thread, opinions are split.
I have added a poll to this thread, so please make your opinion known by voting.
I have added a poll to this thread, so please make your opinion known by voting.
The poll makes it unclear whether it's user-definable AR for ranked play or for unranked play which is where the main split in opinions comes from. Everybody would oppose user-definable AR on ranked plays, while they wouldn't mind it to exist as an unranked option.
For ranked plays, specifically. You should know I don't believe in this whole "unranked" thing .
Though alternative, a negative multiplier could be applied when the AR isn't default.
.Though alternative, a negative multiplier could be applied when the AR isn't default.
iHateFatPeople_old
You may think it is stupid, but a lot of people have upvoted this, so I am looking to get an overall opinion on the matter in form of numbers. Feel free to add your vote 
.
Also, as I mentioned, for mod play there would likely be restrictions. And quite possibly you would only be able to increase the AR, not decrease.
.Also, as I mentioned, for mod play there would likely be restrictions. And quite possibly you would only be able to increase the AR, not decrease.
Tom69_old
I kinda like being able to only increase the AR, lowering makes stuff more cluttered anyways.
I do agree with pepz, by only being able to increase and not decrease the AR.
It's actually kinda funny that you say only increasing the AR would keep its difficulty.
If you could do that, ranked, most people would increase the AR of all AR8 maps to 9 and it would make them 20 times easier to play, meanwhile the option to decrease AR to 7 would've potentially made those same maps way harder.
If you just added this with a score-reducing factor with no limitation on AR range it would be muuuuch better imo. That way you don't hurt current rankings (nobody would complain that suddenly people get rank for free on AR8 maps because they could increase it, or anything of that sort, because your score would be penalized) and at the same time people who want to change AR (which is usually people who only play for fun and don't care for rank anyway) would be able to do it freely with no limitations without throwing off the balance of osu!'s competitive aspect. I'm sure players like Millhiore would enjoy being able to set AR to lower amounts and it would open a ton of fun play possibilities (that are /harder/ because of the lower AR), without hurting anybody else who's not interested in playing like that.
(either way, it would be great if you finally allowed players to pick ARs higher than 10 without DT. Preferably with 1/3 increments, since 1AR = 150ms difference, 1/3 would be 50ms. In anything post-AR10 that 50ms makes a large difference)
If you could do that, ranked, most people would increase the AR of all AR8 maps to 9 and it would make them 20 times easier to play, meanwhile the option to decrease AR to 7 would've potentially made those same maps way harder.
If you just added this with a score-reducing factor with no limitation on AR range it would be muuuuch better imo. That way you don't hurt current rankings (nobody would complain that suddenly people get rank for free on AR8 maps because they could increase it, or anything of that sort, because your score would be penalized) and at the same time people who want to change AR (which is usually people who only play for fun and don't care for rank anyway) would be able to do it freely with no limitations without throwing off the balance of osu!'s competitive aspect. I'm sure players like Millhiore would enjoy being able to set AR to lower amounts and it would open a ton of fun play possibilities (that are /harder/ because of the lower AR), without hurting anybody else who's not interested in playing like that.
(either way, it would be great if you finally allowed players to pick ARs higher than 10 without DT. Preferably with 1/3 increments, since 1AR = 150ms difference, 1/3 would be 50ms. In anything post-AR10 that 50ms makes a large difference)
honestly I still don't like allowing people to change AR. It should be what it is. However, I am more comfortable if players are only allowed to increase the AR (for a certain price) if this gets implemented, but I'm still saying no. no. no. no. no.
no.... no. on.no.on.no.on.no
no.... no. on.no.on.no.on.no
Lets say I'm in the mood to play a random map that I like with AR10.3 today, without aiming to rank on it in the scoreboard - it would still add into playcount and account statistics ofc i.e. score reduction effect. (and if I wanted to rank on it for max score, I'd have to play it with the default map AR).winber1 wrote:
honestly I still don't like allowing people to change AR. It should be what it is. However, I am more comfortable if players are only allowed to increase the AR (for a certain price) if this gets implemented, but I'm still saying no. no. no. no. no.
no.... no. on.no.on.no.on.no
Does this hurt you in any way? why do you oppose this?
Isn't it a win-win situation to give players more features without taking away existing game behavior? What do you have against this
afaik the only argument against letting players pick their AR when playing is that either lower or higher AR can lead to scores that are otherwise too-hard to get, making it unfair for players who previously weren't able to get those scores without adjusting their AR. Since this is the only problem, the obvious solution is to make it so that you can't get better scores by changing the AR, and then everything stays fair. Do you have any other argument against this?
Please. Please please please please please please please please please please please
Exactly my thoughts.winber1 wrote:
honestly I still don't like allowing people to change AR. It should be what it is. However, I am more comfortable if players are only allowed to increase the AR (for a certain price) if this gets implemented, but I'm still saying no. no. no. no. no.
no.... no. on.no.on.no.on.no
Being able to change the AR just feels wrong.
increasing only sounds interesting, but seriously, who would increase AR9 to AR10? (except for people like Aqo, but oh well..)
AR10 breaks the flow of the map in most maps below 200~ BPM, which is why it's never used.
And for most players, AR7 is not very different from AR8 oder 9 gameplay-wise, so no real need for doing that...
I could live with it if would really reduce score, but I would probably never use it ._."
Layne_old_1
Yeah, it just doesn't seem right to shift the power even more to the mole whackers and away from the map readers by allowing them to turn any map into whack-a-mole and not allowing the same to be true for people that want to do the reverse (and really, it's only a small number of maps that push their AR too high and result in a map where it feels like you're spending half your time waiting for the next hit circle to pop up so you can whack it (as opposed to the mole whacker aggravation of feeling like they're spending half their time waiting for approach circles to close)).Aqo wrote:
It's actually kinda funny that you say only increasing the AR would keep its difficulty.
If you could do that, ranked, most people would increase the AR of all AR8 maps to 9 and it would make them 20 times easier to play, meanwhile the option to decrease AR to 7 would've potentially made those same maps way harder.
The whether the player is increasing or decreasing the AR, since the program can't really judge the effect on difficulty, for game balance you have to assume that the map has been made considerably easier regardless of setting (even if they're intentionally making it hard on themselves... the program can't know that unless it's made to be able to judge difficulty accurately, and that's extra tricky because difficulty is somewhat subjective). Which is why I think if it is allowed, it should be allowed in either direction (because either way can be easier or harder, there isn't a difference in allowing one or the other), and with a score penalty.
Support, but I prefer to limit the define setting to AR+1 or AR+2,
so that in easy or normal maps, you can't go AR9 in a difficulty with an AR3, but you can adjust it to AR4 or AR5.
so that in easy or normal maps, you can't go AR9 in a difficulty with an AR3, but you can adjust it to AR4 or AR5.
Current Priority: +265Most people think this is a good idea. Most of the people not agreeing with this doesn't even play much osu!
slow AR's harder to read anyway :3
support
support
Only increasing the AR? That's fine I guess, but this only gives advantage to the players who are good with high AR. The ones who can play or likes (eg. val0108 or CXu) to play AR 8/7/6 or even lower has the disadvantage here. This again limiting the potential of different kinds of players god damn it.
i'm fine with the fixed AR because some maps look ugly with fast/slow AR.the mapper picked that certain AR because he/she thinks it's the best AR for his/her map (imo)
Meh I think it should decrease score since it makes it easier for a lot of people.
As I said before, if it makes it easier, it should decrease score. If it doesn't make it easier for everybody, then the people who don't get anything from it will be at a disadvantage (and no, please don't allow AR to be lowered; either way it should decrease score since its a difficulty decreasing effect)
As I said before, if it makes it easier, it should decrease score. If it doesn't make it easier for everybody, then the people who don't get anything from it will be at a disadvantage (and no, please don't allow AR to be lowered; either way it should decrease score since its a difficulty decreasing effect)
can i use my votes to take away 2 votes from this
increase only makes me sad, I do best with ar8... oh well~rickyboi wrote:
Only increasing the AR? That's fine I guess, but this only gives advantage to the players who are good with high AR. The ones who can play or likes (eg. val0108 or CXu) to play AR 8/7/6 or even lower has the disadvantage here. This again limiting the potential of different kinds of players god damn it.
Consider that if it "only makes it easier for some", then there is probably no reason not to add it. Implying that it only helps some means it is a preference and should likely not be factored into this thing we call skill (aka how-to-get-more-points).</2cents>
Also comparing to other rhythm games, the ability to change approach rate is usually a user setting which has no effect on score. Which is where this request stems from originally.
Also comparing to other rhythm games, the ability to change approach rate is usually a user setting which has no effect on score. Which is where this request stems from originally
.Sorry but AR is something set by the mapper, this is A LOT more important to a map than a SB is and as such I think it should be left alone. Some maps would be made insanely easy with higher AR's which is completely unfair to older players.peppy wrote:
Consider that if it "only makes it easier for some", then there is probably no reason not to add it. Implying that it only helps some means it is a preference and should likely not be factored into this thing we call skill (aka how-to-get-more-points).</2cents>
Also comparing to other rhythm games, the ability to change approach rate is usually a user setting which has no effect on score. Which is where this request stems from originally
I also think it would be refreshing if we could throw away the whole "unfair to old plays" attitude and objectively consider possible improvements, but that is a hard fence to jump.
This is a great and a terrible thing, I wouldn't mind having some things changed but this is certainly one of the things I can see taking the charm out of a lot of maps.
mtmcl, kirby, djpop, reiken and even blue dragon are some of the most iconic mappers in osu! and they all have used low approach rate in their most impressive maps, it would be sad to see people beating them with high approach rates on their first and second try, it really does effect difficulty a lot more than people realise.
mtmcl, kirby, djpop, reiken and even blue dragon are some of the most iconic mappers in osu! and they all have used low approach rate in their most impressive maps, it would be sad to see people beating them with high approach rates on their first and second try, it really does effect difficulty a lot more than people realise.
What about making AR rate options open or closed to the users based on the mappers choice?
fair enough, but I'd like to see it off for older maps.RBRat3 wrote:
What about making AR rate options open or closed to the users based on the mappers choice?
I would only expect it to be applied to maps made after the implementation.
nah man. It should be applied on all the maps.RBRat3 wrote:
I would only expect it to be applied to maps made after the implementation.
theowest wrote:
nah man. It should be applied on all the maps.RBRat3 wrote:
I would only expect it to be applied to maps made after the implementation.
Having it go into effect for all will murder old scores and its unfair to those who earned them...
If you or anyone wanted it they could just ask the mapper for an AR opt-able map of the older beatmap that way its a fresh score slate. ( or just copy it yourself with permission and submit it )
Having it the way I just proposed would make everyone happy
-Oldhats keep their scores
-You get your feature
-Mappers can force AR Rate or keep it open by choice
-You can have an older beatmap AR opt-able upon request with a fresh score slate
Guys you're going in circles...
Once again, the only, literally the very single "problem" anybody raised for letting players change the AR on any map ever made to any AR they want on ranked play is that it would make certain plays easier and thus not deserving for the same score as default AR plays.
Solution: give it a score-reducing factor.
Isn't this enough? Why are you looking for other solutions? This is by far the most optimal one.
Only letting users pick higher AR: this is stupid. Reason: once you learn to read a certain AR level, it will ALWAYS be easier for you to play with it, regardless of map bpm. Which means all HR players would only play everything with AR10 and it would make everything much easier for them, and so on.
Like jesse said, a large part of the appeal in AR is actually the added difficulty from lower ARs (forcing you to remember more events ahead). If a feature exists to let users pick any AR they want, it should definitely let users pick lower ARs, because that'd be the most fun part of it.
Only allowing this on new maps: again, bad. Why would you take this freedom away from old maps? really no reason.
I still haven't seen anyone here state any reason why to not just let all users pick whatever AR they want for all maps ever with a score reducing effect. It's a win-win solution. Why the hell not? Why are you looking for anything else?
Once again, the only, literally the very single "problem" anybody raised for letting players change the AR on any map ever made to any AR they want on ranked play is that it would make certain plays easier and thus not deserving for the same score as default AR plays.
Solution: give it a score-reducing factor.
Isn't this enough? Why are you looking for other solutions? This is by far the most optimal one.
Only letting users pick higher AR: this is stupid. Reason: once you learn to read a certain AR level, it will ALWAYS be easier for you to play with it, regardless of map bpm. Which means all HR players would only play everything with AR10 and it would make everything much easier for them, and so on.
Like jesse said, a large part of the appeal in AR is actually the added difficulty from lower ARs (forcing you to remember more events ahead). If a feature exists to let users pick any AR they want, it should definitely let users pick lower ARs, because that'd be the most fun part of it.
Only allowing this on new maps: again, bad. Why would you take this freedom away from old maps? really no reason.
I still haven't seen anyone here state any reason why to not just let all users pick whatever AR they want for all maps ever with a score reducing effect. It's a win-win solution. Why the hell not? Why are you looking for anything else?
Rather than creating a duplicate map there are some BATs that can make changes to ranked maps, if the mapper wants to enable the AR change option they could ask a BAT to do the change and update the mapset.RBRat3 wrote:
If you or anyone wanted it they could just ask the mapper for an AR opt-able map of the older beatmap that way its a fresh score slate. ( or just copy it yourself with permission and submit it )
Still tho, i prefer just to be able to increase it as i said in my previous post.
"I would only expect it to be applied to maps made after the implementation." Meaning old maps and their scores go untouched and the feature locked out to its creator.Sakura wrote:
Rather than creating a duplicate map there are some BATs that can make changes to ranked maps, if the mapper wants to enable the AR change option they could ask a BAT to do the change and update the mapset.RBRat3 wrote:
If you or anyone wanted it they could just ask the mapper for an AR opt-able map of the older beatmap that way its a fresh score slate. ( or just copy it yourself with permission and submit it )
Still tho, i prefer just to be able to increase it as i said in my previous post.
I dont think its so bad seeing 2 difficulties
Normal open AR
Normal Fixed AR