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going vegan

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Topic Starter
xch00F
have considered it a few times in the past but goddamn, cognitive dissonance finally got the best of me
it's always been funny to see ppl get so offended by the word
Nuuskamuikkunen
I mean there's the stereotype.
Wimpy Cursed
Topic Starter
xch00F

Nuuskamuikkunen wrote:

I mean there's the stereotype.
yeah that's a given but the offense that ppl take when simply hearing the word "vegan" I've found to be much funnier
roshan117
that is something i've always noticed. i'm not sure why people have such a visceral reaction to veganism. especially when they say "i want to eat REAL food". tons of great vegan food out there, and it just makes them come off as closed-minded picky eaters
B0ii

Nuuskamuikkunen wrote:

I mean there's the stereotype.
Topic Starter
xch00F

roshan117 wrote:

that is something i've always noticed. i'm not sure why people have such a visceral reaction to veganism. especially when they say "i want to eat REAL food". tons of great vegan food out there, and it just makes them come off as closed-minded picky eaters
the "real food" folks are particularly dumb lmao, I love giving my mom shit for that when she says it
tho you could call vegans "picky" in the sense that there are certain groups of food that they adamantly do not consume. ppl should be more aware of what they eat (especially here in burgerlandia) and a certain level of pickiness is probably good
Winnyace

roshan117 wrote:

that is something i've always noticed. i'm not sure why people have such a visceral reaction to veganism. especially when they say "i want to eat REAL food". tons of great vegan food out there, and it just makes them come off as closed-minded picky eaters
There's a stereotype attached to the whole thing. It has been going around online and it has been subject of mockery since 2015-2016. Either you're ragebaiting now or you are one of those people.
Winnyace
And yes, I get the irony that I'm a Linux user, so this puts me in the same category as vegans who have to say to everybody in existence they're vegan.
Karmine

Nuuskamuikkunen wrote:

I mean there's the stereotype.
Yeah, it's associated with annoying people.
Say you're vegetarian/don't eat meat, no one gives a shit.
Say you're vegan and people automatically assume you're one of those.
Corne2Plum3
Being vegan isn't good for your health you'll miss essential nutriments, and have to consume chemical/medical crap to compensate
Patatitta

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

Being vegan isn't good for your health you'll miss essential nutriments, and have to consume chemical/medical crap to compensate
it's true that your diet is harder (like you're removing a big chunk of foods you can eat), but I think the health concerns are overblown, mainly just people hating vegans due to the perception of them being annoying or anything and trying to find something they can attack them on, the "when everyone finally starts to dislike the person you had a bad feeling about all along" effect. (not to mention that hate against vegans was in many ways has been politicized and a lot of hate torwards vegans are also just straight up politics). It's very much possible to live a healthy life with a vegan diet if you know what you're doing.

not to mention that I hate the notion and the general perception that organic and natural = good and perfect and everything made by human hands = bad and unhealthy
roshan117

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

Being vegan isn't good for your health you'll miss essential nutriments, and have to consume chemical/medical crap to compensate
it's harder to get all your nutrients vegan than on a non-vegan diet, but it is definitely possible to do so without having to consume supplements.
z0z
*insert vegan teacher ytp*
Polyspora
I used to shit on it until I found this old lady in an asylum (she was around 76 years old) who was healthily slim and looked quite well for someone her age (some of her hair still had natural color) she was sharp minded, read books, went for walks, played the piano and even recorded of events from years in the past.

She started a vegan diet at 19.

Besides calling me a fatty she told me what her diet was, I don’t remember it exactly but I know it was mostly nuts that contained protein and all the other shit you need to live.


I think this sweet hag single handedly just destroyed all my stereotypes related to vegans in a random afternoon.



So yeah go ahead, have fun. But don’t act pretentious about it and take the diet seriously (frequent medical checks to see if you’re doing alright)
Ymir
Was forced to be vegetarian my whole life, which is similar. Since I still live with my parents I don't really get a proper diet of meat, but I usually have some on the occasions I go out. Personally I don't reccomend veganism having experienced it, but who knows, some people are fulfilled by it. I don't know why but they are.

Make sure to have nutritional supplements ready though.
Ashton
I think B12 are the only nutrients that you lack with a well rounded vegan diet, but in our day and age that's easy enough to get through supplements and the money you save from meat can be siphoned into that. It's available at practically any chain grocery store...

I have also toyed with going vegan. I think it's not the taste of meat that I miss but rather the associated flavorings (my favorite meat dish is ginger beef, but it's more so for the ginger sauce than for the beef itself, for example). Plain meat with no seasonings tastes pretty neutral to gross for me personally, so I honestly see it more as a vehicle to get flavors I want than as the primary reason I like a dish.

The hardest part for me will probably be giving up whole milk, since I basically hate all the alternatives. I love me a creamy latte, ice cream, etc..
Ymir
I love Sashimi, Salmon in particular. In fact, I usually have it without the soy sauce.
Polyspora

Ymir wrote:

I love Sashimi, Salmon in particular. In fact, I usually have it without the soy sauce.
thats weird
furry hater
i sometimes become vegan when im bored and go back to normal
Topic Starter
xch00F

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

Being vegan isn't good for your health you'll miss essential nutriments, and have to consume chemical/medical crap to compensate
this is the "eat REAL food" sentiment masquerading as concern, complete with the stereotypical lack of scientific literacy that I generally expect from other americans, which I'm going to ignore due to the standard appeal to nature thing, and also the following:

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

nutriments

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

chemical/medical crap
but yeah, vitamin b12 and d are the two main nutriments that need assistance when pursuing a vegan diet. both can be easily solved with a supplement and/or fortified foods, vitamin d can be partially solved by touching grass

Polyspora wrote:

So yeah go ahead, have fun. But don’t act pretentious about it and take the diet seriously (frequent medical checks to see if you’re doing alright)
the change in diet is one of two main reasons why I'm going vegan, it necessarily requires more concerted effort
the other reason is more of a personal philosophical reason that I don't need to get into. unless I'm eating out with friends/family and get shit for not eating meat anymore

Ashton wrote:

The hardest part for me will probably be giving up whole milk, since I basically hate all the alternatives. I love me a creamy latte, ice cream, etc..
I honestly hate dairy milk lmao, unless it's butter or cheese. vegan cheese mostly still sucks and it's expensive so there's rly no reason for me to buy it. sorbet is better than ice cream
Achromalia
i have nothing to add to the conversation (probably?) but

xch00F wrote:

Ashton wrote:

The hardest part for me will probably be giving up whole milk, since I basically hate all the alternatives. I love me a creamy latte, ice cream, etc..
I honestly hate dairy milk lmao, unless it's butter or cheese. vegan cheese mostly still sucks and it's expensive so there's rly no reason for me to buy it. sorbet is better than ice cream
dairy milk hater spotted yippee <3

well, not entirely, on account of me still having enjoyed the milk of an occasional ice cream tub every few/several months

i am inexplicably uncomfortable with [liquid] milk, not due to an allergic reaction or particular intolerance or anything, it just Feels Odd and i don't drink things that Feel Odd... in unrelated news 99.97% of everything i drink is some flavor of tap water and my parents are the exact opposite

now for even more conversationally unrelated trivia due to limited self-control of the compulsion to socialize in mildly odd ways, as well as the catharsis of expressing things that don't matter:

+ ~80% of the remainder is probably some conventional form of juice
+ ~10% of the remainder is probably milk itself
+ ~8% of the remainder is probably some form of milkshake
+ i am absolutely sure i've drunk iced tea less than 16 times in my life
+ i am absolutely sure i've drunk tea less than 16 times in my life
+ i am absolutely sure i've drunk soda 3 times at least and 9 times at most
+ i am absolutely sure i've drunk coffee 1 time at least and 4 times at most

+ bonus trivia!! in the case of coffee, the one time i do remember drinking it, i distinctly remember it tasting like a vague Empty Grey Color, somehow grey is a Flavor Category for me... but i don't mean to claim to have synesthesia by saying so;; i think i just need those extra sensory dimensions to describe taste in a way that makes sense to me because i suspect i may not remember tastes themselves very well

+ upon reflection, it sounds like not remembering tastes is maybe vaguely normal so nevermind
z0z

Ashton wrote:

I think B12 are the only nutrients that you lack with a well rounded vegan diet, but in our day and age that's easy enough to get through supplements and the money you save from meat can be siphoned into that. It's available at practically any chain grocery store...

I have also toyed with going vegan. I think it's not the taste of meat that I miss but rather the associated flavorings (my favorite meat dish is ginger beef, but it's more so for the ginger sauce than for the beef itself, for example). Plain meat with no seasonings tastes pretty neutral to gross for me personally, so I honestly see it more as a vehicle to get flavors I want than as the primary reason I like a dish.

The hardest part for me will probably be giving up whole milk, since I basically hate all the alternatives. I love me a creamy latte, ice cream, etc..
try being vegetarian
great_elmo
There's too much good food to give up.
Vegan meat tastes like ass so no thanks.
Most vegan replacements just aren't good.
Topic Starter
xch00F
you're not replacing anything, you just stop eating meat
when was the last time you ate an apple
Achromalia

xch00F wrote:

you're not replacing anything, you just stop eating meat
when was the last time you ate an apple
presumably the premise is moreso that there's such an attachment to meat to the extent that some people seem to not be able to view it as "just" stopping, nor would they equate meat-replacement with apple-replacement(?,, that might be the wrong interpretation from me but idk what this was meant to illustrate so i hope that's expanded on later) in any way

unless i'm misunderstanding the point being made;; im out here being a weird devil's advocate mediator for no reason, with the tendency to hope the questions and comments made would help clarify a bit of what's happening in these conversations

i dont have a personal stake in this beyond maybe wanting people to be represented proportionately/equivalently/accurately and i imagine that's a thing where i'm going to misinterpret something from people, but i suppose... the idea in my mind seems to be that if i could be mistaken, then someone else probably could be as well (even if they already have pre-existing biases and might be likely to choose to view what you've shared in some certain way)

ew why does this feel more slimy the more i talk ;v; i hope that all makes sense lol
Topic Starter
xch00F
not a direct comparison lol, it's difficult to drop an entire category of food ofc, I'm still struggling with it and have to catch myself out. the sentiment of "replacing" that category with an imitation is silly imo
Achromalia

xch00F wrote:

not a direction comparison lol, it's difficult to drop an entire category of food ofc, I'm still struggling with it and have to catch myself out. the sentiment of "replacing" that category with an imitation is silly imo
ah, understood :)

also can sympathize w viewing it as silly, not on account of dismissing an attachment or the personal element of it (doubtful you necessarily mean that, i wouldnt be insinuating that) so much as the general idea of believing that some food Must Necessarily Systematically Be Imitated in order to bear the change of not eating it

...granted, food is in many ways Very personal to many people and those things will probably intersect greatly anyway, i'm often quite ignorant and blind to it bc my relationship with food is a neglectful one and my attachments exist moreso on account of the comfort of what i already know to be "good enough" rather than a "must-have delicacy (of which would be awful to force myself to go without)", partly because it doesn't feel that much like being Forced at all when it's natural to not be able to eat something i wanted(?) anyway, simply because it just costed more than i could afford or had so little nutritional value to feel worthwhile or i probably just kind of... forgot to care after a while of it being absent (out of sight, out of mind)

i figure that if my access to meat was removed, i would probably be mostly fine... it would exclude maybe 20% of my diet i think? :o but the main things i eat are grains and legumes and some vegetables, i was already like this to some level

other than meat, dairy products like cheese being excluded might be somewhat disappointing but not that awful. the only real "awful" thing is that i imagine i may not be able to have the same kinds of enchiladas anymore, since those almost necessarily use cheese and they've been one of those comfort foods-- except they're only ever made once every other few months or so, and therefore i would forget anyway

idk, but that's me, and other people probably have their own troubles with it that make it particularly hard for them. for me i just have not mustered the philosophical/ideological/personal motivating grist to attempt it for... whatever reason, if any, in which avolition happens to be a vice in general
Winnyace
I wish you luck on your endeavours OP. I'm personally trying to add more veggies in my diet too, but I doubt I will drop meat entirely. I'm striving for a balance between everything.
Topic Starter
xch00F

Achromalia wrote:

also can sympathize w viewing it as silly, not on account of dismissing an attachment or the personal element of it (doubtful you necessarily mean that, i wouldnt be insinuating that) so much as the general idea of believing that some food Must Necessarily Systematically Be Imitated in order to bear the change of not eating it
yeah, it's like
if you're going to try and drop meat out of your diet by swapping it out with an imitation that is, more or less, entirely lesser, just keep eating meat... except soy chorizo. that shit is incredible.

there are various dishes that I'll be sad to miss out, the biggest one being sushi. oh well. mom makes really good enchiladas, good enough to impress our hispanic in-laws, anyway.

but I've been experimenting with recipes, spending more time in the kitchen lately. cooking is starting to become fun! eating more fruits and veggies too.

honestly I'm still torn on my thoughts on animal products, ie dairy and eggs. I don't think it's cope, it's something I need to continue fleshing (hehe) out. atm I'm not consuming them, this could change but I don't think it will.

Winnyace wrote:

I wish you luck on your endeavours OP. I'm personally trying to add more veggies in my diet too, but I doubt I will drop meat entirely. I'm striving for a balance between everything.
definitely eat more fruits and vegetables. the greatest thing about them is that you don't even need to cook them (well, most of them), just grab em and stuff em in ur mouth

actually this gives me an idea, brb
abraker
Not that I see myself doing it just because I want, but I'll never stoop deeper on the scale than a mediterranean diet.
Neigdoig
I am not really built for a vegan diet, as there's scientific evidence proving that it causes health problems. For examples, the toxins occurring naturally in plants cause health problems over time, which also leads to one's quality of life declining on a vegan diet, even if they seem to have been built for one.

To counteract this, and potentially fix my brain fog, I'm going on carnivore for 90 days to see if that fixes anything. I have a sneaking suspicion it will given the scientific evidence I had read myself. Otherwise, vegan or vegetarian diets do not work for me (I tried it, and fixed one health issue, but replaced it with another). The fact that I have autism is another reason why I'm going carnivore.
Topic Starter
xch00F
lmfao
Polyspora
what the fuck


is that the new scyla
Tateshina Eve
Some mushrooms taste like chicken if you're brave enough.
Karmine

Polyspora wrote:

what the fuck


is that the new scyla
Unlike scyla this guy is 100% serious, his post history is... interesting.
Patatitta

Neigdoig wrote:

I am not really built for a vegan diet, as there's scientific evidence proving that it causes health problems. For examples, the toxins occurring naturally in plants cause health problems over time, which also leads to one's quality of life declining on a vegan diet, even if they seem to have been built for one.

To counteract this, and potentially fix my brain fog, I'm going on carnivore for 90 days to see if that fixes anything. I have a sneaking suspicion it will given the scientific evidence I had read myself. Otherwise, vegan or vegetarian diets do not work for me (I tried it, and fixed one health issue, but replaced it with another). The fact that I have autism is another reason why I'm going carnivore.
I'm autistic and I have no fucking clue what that has to do with going on a carnivore diet
Topic Starter
xch00F

Karmine wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

what the fuck


is that the new scyla
Unlike scyla this guy is 100% serious, his post history is... interesting.
he's made some very interesting posts on ffr's forums too, here's one of my personal favs:

Nugdoig wrote:

I believe tackling mental illness is simple:

Firstly, you may need to change your mindset a little bit. I'm a Messianic Jew, so this process is the longest.

Secondly, in the meantime, you could change what's on your plate. I don't eat anything with gluten, cow's milk, soy and refined sugar (the sugar part is pretty seldom, but I consume the wrong sweetener by accident sometimes). That, and cleansing parasites twice a year (every 6 months) works pretty well for my needs.

Lastly, and this is my opinion, it's because you're looking for someone to make fun of about almost anything. This for sure messes up some people's minds, so do something productive like music production, creative writing, or anything else productive in this way. I do that, but some of what I do requires communication.
funny to see the stereotypical toxic mentality of "you can just work through your mental illness bro" juxtaposed with gluten-free and juice cleanse nonsense
Corne2Plum3
I eat so few vegetables and fruits IRL that I do think I'm carnivore lol, and I'm going fine (for now at least)

I'm NOT telling you to do this too
Topic Starter
xch00F
it really is insane to me that people will basically brag about not eating fruits or veggies, especially when it's not an american
but I guess that's our fault anyway, obesity is one of our main exports nowadays

I feel like I have a pretty good personal reason to not eat meat
do y'all have a good personal reason to not eat vegetables too or does it boil down to the typical toddler tantrum of "Ew Veggies Icky Green Beans Bleh"
Polyspora

xch00F wrote:

it really is insane to me that people will basically brag about not eating fruits or veggies, especially when it's not an american
but I guess that's our fault anyway, obesity is one of our main exports nowadays

I feel like I have a pretty good personal reason to not eat meat
do y'all have a good personal reason to not eat vegetables too or does it boil down to the typical toddler tantrum of "Ew Veggies Icky Green Beans Bleh"

Having a protein exclusive diet is not that bad you know…


You could use the same childish argument for the opposite

“do y'all have a good personal reason to not eat meat too or does it boil down to the typical toddler tantrum of "owh poor naive animals getting murdered!””


Don’t be like that please
Achromalia

Polyspora wrote:

xch00F wrote:

it really is insane to me that people will basically brag about not eating fruits or veggies, especially when it's not an american
but I guess that's our fault anyway, obesity is one of our main exports nowadays

I feel like I have a pretty good personal reason to not eat meat
do y'all have a good personal reason to not eat vegetables too or does it boil down to the typical toddler tantrum of "Ew Veggies Icky Green Beans Bleh"
Having a protein exclusive diet is not that bad you know…
i doubt that's what was meant at all, although i imagine "the typical toddler tantrum of [ew veggies icky bleh]" doesn't help my interpretation, but i think they're expressing different things

we can generally assume the usual reason for vegetarian/vegan diets will include a firm moral argument involved somewhere in the middle. on the other hand, xch00f is describing a hypothetically-applicable scenario where people may Avoid vegetables specifically as a matter of taste rather than as an equivalent moral argument in its own right, and directing/testing that concept here in order to hear from people who Might have a personal reason that approximates that kind of moral argument... neither taste nor personal morality seems to match what you're describing, considering that you're specifically writing "protein-exclusive diet" rather than "meat-exclusive diet" or "meat-based diet", which implies to me that you're focusing on nutritional value

i mean, you may mean something like "[diets with desirable nutrients] are not that [morally bad or worth being particularly concerned about, it's good nutrition and/or generally trivial]", but then... well, i would let xch00f take it from there if this accurately represents you (which it might not, so, feel free to clarify!!)

completely pedantic from me, probably, but clarity is always cool and i like to make sure everyone sort of understands what's meant by each person so that they can weigh the scale of what is and isn't proportionate with each other's arguments :>
Topic Starter
xch00F

Polyspora wrote:

Having a protein exclusive diet is not that bad you know…

You could use the same childish argument for the opposite

“do y'all have a good personal reason to not eat meat too or does it boil down to the typical toddler tantrum of "owh poor naive animals getting murdered!””
not a moral equivalency, but I'm not even concerned about morals in the first place, I'm talking about the difference in self-perceived virtues of saying whether you don't eat meat or vegetables. a vegan proudly and sanctimoniously expressing that they don't meat is annoying as hell, we all know that, but generally speaking, we also know why they don't eat meat. people who proudly and sanctimoniously express that they don't eat vegetables and/or fruit often don't say why they don't, and I am genuinely interested in hearing why, because generally speaking, that boils down to personal taste. if a vegetarian/vegan were to say "Ew Meat Icky Fried Chicken Bleh" and that was their sole reason to not eat meat, that would also be childish. political activism is childish too but in a different way.

like I said, I don't need to get into my personal reasons, but I'll say that "owh poor naive animals getting murdered" is not one of them. aka

Karmine wrote:

Say you're vegan and people automatically assume you're one of those.
abraker

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

I eat so few vegetables and fruits IRL that I do think I'm carnivore lol, and I'm going fine (for now at least)

I'm NOT telling you to do this too
Do you hunt for your food or does it come to you out of fear?


Neigdoig wrote:

I am not really built for a vegan diet, as there's scientific evidence proving that it causes health problems. For examples, the toxins occurring naturally in plants cause health problems over time, which also leads to one's quality of life declining on a vegan diet, even if they seem to have been built for one.
WELL DONT FOCKING EAT NIGHTSHADE


Polyspora wrote:

Ymir wrote:

I love Sashimi, Salmon in particular. In fact, I usually have it without the soy sauce.
thats weird
???

... tho I like it better with karashi mayo or without anything. Not a huge fan of soy sause
Topic Starter
xch00F
Yeah I Tried Panera's New Datura Salad Once And Realized I'm Not Built For A Vegan Diet
Patatitta
i'm with xch00F, vegan diet and carnivore diet are NOT comparable from a ethical point of view, vegan is justified and carnivore feels more like counterculture than anything else
Achromalia

Patatitta wrote:

i'm with xch00F, vegan diet and carnivore diet are NOT comparable from a ethical point of view, vegan is justified and carnivore feels more like counterculture than anything else
i would say +1 because this might be closest to my position with it, and because i view this as being far more salient and representative of what's being observed

but with xch00f's clarification idk if ethical comparability is the frame of reference, it sounds like it really was about clarity of peoples' respective concepts of what virtues their positions possess. or maybe i'm misunderstanding all three of y'all;;

because, for example... poly may not really even be particularly concerned with ethics/morality either, and could instead just be focusing on the tone of xch00f's representation of that "ew vegetables" argument, when for xch00f it was probably moreso instrumental to a simple explanation of the nature of that taste versus perceived-virtue dynamic. idk, everyone's bringing a mixture of value systems and perceiving tone in each other's rhetoric in some awkward ways, which can complicate our understanding and ability to accurately reflect each other's intentions
Polyspora

xch00F wrote:

Polyspora wrote:

Having a protein exclusive diet is not that bad you know…

You could use the same childish argument for the opposite

“do y'all have a good personal reason to not eat meat too or does it boil down to the typical toddler tantrum of "owh poor naive animals getting murdered!””
not a moral equivalency, but I'm not even concerned about morals in the first place, I'm talking about the difference in self-perceived virtues of saying whether you don't eat meat or vegetables. a vegan proudly and sanctimoniously expressing that they don't meat is annoying as hell, we all know that, but generally speaking, we also know why they don't eat meat. people who proudly and sanctimoniously express that they don't eat vegetables and/or fruit often don't say why they don't, and I am genuinely interested in hearing why, because generally speaking, that boils down to personal taste. if a vegetarian/vegan were to say "Ew Meat Icky Fried Chicken Bleh" and that was their sole reason to not eat meat, that would also be childish. political activism is childish too but in a different way.

like I said, I don't need to get into my personal reasons, but I'll say that "owh poor naive animals getting murdered" is not one of them. aka

Karmine wrote:

Say you're vegan and people automatically assume you're one of those.
I never assumed you were one of those
Topic Starter
xch00F
"owh poor naive animals getting murdered" seemed to imply otherwise
Polyspora

Patatitta wrote:

i'm with xch00F, vegan diet and carnivore diet are NOT comparable from a ethical point of view, vegan is justified and carnivore feels more like counterculture than anything else
Nobody cares enough about the ethics of vegans to change their entire diet around it.

This only exists on the internet

What do exist is a diet exclusively on protein “overload”, that relies mostly on meat and eggs

Its some kind of “wake up call” for your digestive system so it can start working properly again.

Some nutritionists even recommend it for people that want some help in losing weight.
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