Is it possible to avoid those toxic answers? That would be nice I guess, and there is no reason to be angry, just do a discussion without being angry ^^
^ straight up rude btw.Stjpa wrote:
Yes it sounds rude and harsh, but honestly that's just the truth and there's no other way to say it
u better map actual sounds rather things that are barely hearable (if they really exist)Raikozen wrote:
i guess i won't blame you if you won't hear it for the first time, but theres actually a quite quiet 1/2 percussion beat in this part
The lower spacing of 00:19:197 (2,3) - is still not really justified, you emphasized the melody with bigger spacing but totally ignore it here which I find still questionable as you didn't answer that. The transition from 2 to 3 seems completely fine since there's a percussion, ok fine, but 1) why is it not hitsounded at all to give the player feedback that there's a percussion and 2) why is 00:19:733 (5,6) - mapped even stronger without really having anything it could emphasize?Raikozen wrote:
i guess i won't blame you if you won't hear it for the first time, but theres actually a quite quiet 1/2 percussion beat in this part
I don't really understand how it can even reflect the same pitch when the pitch is noticably lower and the previous pitch was like 2-3 seconds ago, so basically not relevant at all anymore.Raikozen wrote:
ok i might kinda agree that this is a bit overhauled, but it also reflects the same pitch change as previously, i do that in other things you pointed out as well
Fair enough, but there's still no reason to map the second build-up less intense when the intention of you is still the same there. Previously you cared about percussion and tried to give it extra emphasis, but 00:31:518 (3) - here you suddenly stop doing it. Not only that, 00:32:858 (1,3) - these have pretty much the same issue. And the overall spacing shouldn't be that much lower, it seems that the melody has a little lower pitch, but the spacing is going so much lower with barely a noticable change when not listening to it multiple times.Raikozen wrote:
the reason for that is that i bulit up for hitfinish on 00:31:786 (1) -
That's a reasoning you could use in any map if there's an actual stream leading into a new section. And there's still no reasoning on why you would avoid mapping to the strong drums in the background then.Raikozen wrote:
this is the one objective thing i kinda agree on, i just noticed theres no 1/4 in melody there LOL but still the whole section builds up nicely to the next post-stream section so it's actually negligible if there is a stream there or not since it's still a transition to another part of the music without the noises in the previous one, and the stream shows how you can distinguish that from the previous part
No vocals? I clearly hear 00:43:706 - an S here and an U 00:43:840 - here, so there are actually vocals lol.Raikozen wrote:
are you deaf? there are no 1/2 vocals in there, this is a perfect place to use two 1/1 sliders
well... and later on i map melody cuz there are no vocals in there?
and then i emphasized vocals cuz they are the most dominant thing? i legit dont wanna be obnoxious at this point but holy fucking shit could you like rehear stuff before you say something?
You are exactly repeating what I was saying and I gave you the reasoning on why it's not working as intended. If a map is built around (screen)jumps then they need to be special and emphasized, which can't happen here if you are using them in the whole map and thus not really giving the feeling of the structure you claim to use. Yes the song has great build-ups for sure, but you can emphasize everything differently (not only different spacing) so make everything feel more intuitive and unique.Raikozen wrote:
you might not have noticed, but whole map is bulit around these screenjumps, and that's the style i followed in this map. this map is made to make it feel massive and spacious, so it gives the extra vibe to the expirienced player who plays it, since the song itself has some great buildup points in my opinion, and it fits well also
I'm not saying that jumps outside of the kiai can't be larger than or equal to kiai jumps, however it's simply not possible here because the kiais are by far stronger because of the stronger melody and higher pitched voice so mapping them just the same is not mapping the difficulty accordingly to the music and reflecting it properly. Is that really that non-sense? I don't think so, and a lot of others don't think so either, so you have to do it properly because this is still a community-driven game.Raikozen wrote:
how ununderstandable that i put 1/2 jumps on a fucking 1/2 vocal section? also could you stop going full turbo shiirn autism with your "kiai emphasis" bullshit since it makes zero fucking sense making it a golden unspoken rule of mapping that is forbidden to be broke. if there are jumps that fit and might be bigger than some kiai jumps, why cant i just use them and why would i have to follow some nonsense principal?
When using the default skin which is common sense when discussing about hitsounding, it's way too hard to notice it which doesn't make sense considering the ghost-stream has a lot better hitsounding that gives good feedback even though there's no stream in the music...Raikozen wrote:
there is a change from normal to drum hitsounding in 01:09:420 (3,4,5) - and a hitclap on 01:09:956 (5) -
My bad that I worded it wrong. What I meant is that you aren't using a 1/1 slider for the long vocals like you did 01:20:000 (1,1,4) - and so onRaikozen wrote:
do i need to put a fucking 130 decibel megaphone right in front of your ear so you can hear that a vocal note starts over here?
This is common sense for you maybe, but not for some modders (like me in this example) or any player who doesn't analyze every damn map to learn different mapping techniques or anything like that.Raikozen wrote:
in most maps, if there's a burst at the end of the slider, it's most likely 1/4 and it has TWO notes (remember capsed numbers, they are important!)
if there are THREE ( :O ) notes in a 1/4 song that isnt a gimmicky map with doubles all the way, it means it's most likely 1/3!
This is also a really bad attitude. Just because a modder can't play the map, does not mean they can't bring valid arguments.Raikozen wrote:
if it plays bad for you, that just means you're just not good enough at the game, and that's it
Its not true. If you cant play the map, that means that your arguments are losing its value, so if you mod that way, the arguments you provide will be more theoretical rather than practical, which means its more subjective than objective. Which means, the way you understand mapping in theory can be way different from others (or the mapper in question rn), tho the mapping theory can be explained widely, so... uh.Naxess wrote:
This is also a really bad attitude. Just because a modder can't play the map, does not mean they can't bring valid arguments.
Word.MrSergio wrote:
I wonder when you guys will learn that subjective opinions are perfectly fine in the ranking process...
As long as the person states his reasons and provides examples of what he's saying, it's perfectly fine, so stop with your memery already.
If others don't like your work they have all the rights to tell you so (in a polite way, obviously)
Spoiler: it has always been like this
You probably dont understand (and im baffled of that tbh, considering ur position in staff), that for now, we got an RC with VERY distinct things in it.MrSergio wrote:
I wonder when you guys will learn that subjective opinions are perfectly fine in the ranking process...
As long as the person states his reasons and provides examples of what he's saying, it's perfectly fine, so stop with your memery already.
If others don't like your work they have all the rights to tell you so (in a polite way, obviously)
Spoiler: it has always been like this
So I'm not shit wootMun wrote:
Shiirn wrote:
Your maps are not you.
pkhg wrote:
avoid bad words
Im sorry.Loctav wrote:
@-himei if you dont know how the modding process work, please get lost or discuss that somewhere else. Just because it is not breaking the RC doesnt mean that no debate about the matter is permitted or that stuff still can't be wrong. And apparantly someone nailed something on your forehead, because this is like the 9023490390349509305935902123843298th time that someone told you this and you are still too dense to get it. Can you just quit it altogether and stop teaching people about an ecosystem that you clearly never understood yourself? On a second note, you can discuss your displease about how the modding ecosystem works in its own thread, not in map threads that are only reserved for discussions about the map self. If you fail to abide that, we will have to make sure that you simply never post in this threads again - ever.
With the time the map becomes as an embodiment of its mapper's soul's expression. When somebody continuously tries to change it/nuke it, or just inhibit the ranking of it, the whole discussion becomes personal.Shiirn wrote:
Attacks and dissenting opinions towards a map are not necessarily personal attacks on the mapper. This is something everyone should try to remember, as it's very easy to feel as if your opinions are being disregarded when presented with conflicting ones.
Your maps are not you. They are not an extension of you, no matter what you may feel on the matter. They are something that are created, and once ranked have officially "grown up" - they're no longer under your control. Ranking a map is by definition ceasing all development and putting out a final, unchangeable copy. You'd best be ready for that.
Maps do not have feelings. Mappers do. People get pissed off when they feel their opinion is being disregarded, or when they feel people aren't giving them the respect "they deserve" by implying, or in many cases, outright saying, that they feel the mapper did something incorrectly.
The main conflicts people are bringing up with this map proper are based on what constitutes "proper representation of the song". The biggest nail of discord there is that the song itself is extremely messed up and hard to follow. As such, different levels of experience in music, listening, or even possibly physical gear (headphones, speakers, etc) can be causing massive changes in what each person hears in this track.
This is why I went to so much effort to point out how horrible this track was - not the map, not the mappers, the song itself. A song that has this much conflict over what even constitutes the basic rhythms and melodies really shouldn't have a difficulty over 6.5*. And that's being generous.
Modders who hate your maps are not clawing through the fabric of reality to tear at your soul. Your creation is intangible, it cannot be damaged or destroyed unless you let it be.-himei wrote:
With the time the map becomes as an embodiment of its mapper's soul's expression. When somebody continuously tries to change it/nuke it, or just inhibit the ranking of it, the whole discussion becomes personal.
You cant deny anything from ^
It is truth for any map and any mapper that got some experience in mapping and the mapping itself for him (you, me, everyone) becomes an
expression of his feelings
that is personal. It is true for eveyone here who stopped mapping to the "beat" after realizing what mapping is in its advanced form.
You are missing the point that most of us (mappers) are ranking stuff to show everyone our perspective of view of music, and the feeling we are experiencing while listening to the song.Shiirn wrote:
Modders who hate your maps are not clawing through the fabric of reality to tear at your soul. Your creation is intangible, it cannot be damaged or destroyed unless you let it be.
Just because it's important to you doesn't mean that you need to be a neurotic sociopath to protect it from things that cannot hurt it.
The same applies here. Personal attacks are pointless; attacking the map has purpose as the moment you push your map for ranking you are by your own choice putting it under review by opinions that are not your own. Being able to be objective and logical about your own emotions is literally what "maturity" is about.
If you truly wanted to have a map be a personal bastion of your feelings and soul, you would not try to rank it. They're mutually exclusive.
The BNg exists for that purpose. Like it or don't like it you have to pass their opinion and in this case, the community's too.-himei wrote:
theres no distinct borderline of "what is good/bad", aside from RC/Code of conduct, which are vague at some points.
Make a really good map to begin with and people will come praise you instead of complaining :p-himei wrote:
you never know what is "optional enough" to skip or "bad enough" to change,, because, eventually, the more people comes, the more stuff you must respond to, the higher chance that you wont handle everything alone.
Quoting for emphasis even if it's a general statement not particularly directed at this map. It applies to much more than just mapping and is an important lesson everyone has to learn eventually so I feel it has value even if this "isn't the place for it."MrSergio wrote:
If you can't "express" your vision in an easy-to-understand manner then you failed.
It's like... "are people not understanding what I'm saying or is it me who can't explain things?" kind of thing.