lol the "No Video" link in this beatmap is not working
My Angel Azusa wrote:
moph
00:09:837 (3) - im wondering why you dont choose to NC this cuz sv has changed a lot and the length of slider is much shorter than (1). Kinda confused to read for 00:09:301 (1,2,3,4) - lol
I mean I think its far from unreadable but if DQ'd sure will change. 00:09:301 (1,2) - is where the SV increased (where the NC is) and 00:09:837 (3,4) - just goes back to the SV before so its not hard to read
00:22:143 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this seems very weird tbh, all beats here sound similar but you use a very different spacing for 00:22:143 (1,2,3,4) - and 00:22:679 (5,6,7,8) - . The first part 00:22:143 (1,2,3,4) - is well, mapped to the song. The jump between 00:22:277 (2,3) - is to emphasize (3) for obvious reasons. The second bar 00:22:679 (5,6,7,8) - however is expressing the repetition in the song, as the music repeats for another bar the movement also reflects that, mimicking the last set of movements from the previous bar which is why there isn't a jump. I figured this would be more interesting than repeating the same pattern.
Besides, from 00:27:500 - it makes sense for you to use 0.75x since usic is recurring but its less intense. But your ds and sv suddenly decreased so much....examples are 00:29:643 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) - and 00:21:072 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - a huge difference imo. 00:29:643 (1,2,3,4) - should at least ctrl+G 00:29:911 (2,4) - lol
uh they're different because the song is very different between the two sections. 00:21:072 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - percussion wise this section always has something every 1/1 and 00:29:643 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) - only has percussion every 2/1. It is a pretty noticeable difference and acts as a calmer section before the song picks up again. That is why there is a significant DS to express that point. 00:29:643 (1,2,3,4) - is also spaced lower than than 00:27:500 (1,2,3,4) - because its pitched lower, thought this would fit well with the music.
00:35:000 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - flow is hard to follow, also if you look at what ure doing 00:26:429 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - the stack kinda breaks the flow.
how is the flow hard to follow exactly? If you're wondering why 00:35:536 (5,6,7,8) - is stacked, that's because the drums happens in pairs and 00:35:536 (5,7) - should be emphasized more which is the whole point to the starting and stopping motion. 00:26:965 (5,6,7,8) - is different as every note has the same drum which is why there is movement to each note.
01:13:572 (6) - NC
shit.
02:28:572 (1,2) - 02:29:643 (1,2) - spacing is inconsistent
Whole point is that the pattern goes forward backwards backward with increased spacing to kinda add build up for the following part. I think it fits additionally in the second half the vocal raises in pitch so the music builds up too
02:51:072 (1) - this is a very obvious 1/4 stream tbh
I'd pretty sure this is 1/6 lol. Sounds a bit off but definitely not 1/4 as I count 7 beats. Additionally I don't think a stream fits here.
03:56:429 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - spacing is way too small for kiai, you used large spacings for 03:55:090 (5,1,2,3,4,5) - etc anyways
I thought lower spacing would be a nice way to tie off the map after that intense section. If DQ'd I'll make the spacing larger but imo not an issue.
oo good catch, i didn't notice that. I would agree that is rather out of place.Yuii- wrote:
02:03:661 (3,1) - This still hasn't been fixed, and it does not affect any of the before/previous patterns as mentioned in p/5684862 . This circle should be place elsewhere because it truly was a mistake from Raikozen, which was mentioned a couple of months ago and still has not been fixed.
My Angel Azusa wrote:
Nino
01:18:393 (1) - why nc for emphasis
02:37:947 (5,1) - nazi blanket xdd
03:17:724 (3) - should break it to 2 circles cuz its different from 03:17:456 (1,2) - if u listen carefully mainly for structure consistent tho and the drum sound isnt the sound im following :p
03:24:889 - 03:25:291 - why ignored lul mainly for emphasis on the drum sound, for impact in gameplay xd
And why do you think that I'm not following my userpage? I'm not playing nor mapping at all, and just modding or looking at maps when there's something going on, so I'm actually not doing anything wrong.GaterRaider wrote:
@Stjpa:i guess its time for a break; playing isnt fun at all anymore, i suck at mapping so i cant enjoy it either and modding is mehYou should stick to your profile description since your mod is a whole lot of rambling garbage that you felt the need to put a summary at the bottom. Yes it sounds rude and harsh, but honestly that's just the truth and there's no other way to say it.
So what exactly are you trying to tell? It's true that the things are not exactly objective issues, because then the map would have issues that break the RC which is not the case, they are intersubjective issues which is basically the same. Instead of being extremely passive-agressive on how wrong my mod is and so on I'd actually like you to counter-argument on why my mod doesn't make any sense. If you think that not following the music properly and randomly placed object in the context of the music is good and should be ranked you definitely have the wrong definition of maps. Literally everywhere was a little exaggeration indeed, but I'm in multiple mapping / modding discords that contains a lot of experienced modders / mappers and the majority of them dislikes the map for the reasons I pointed out.GaterRaider wrote:
I don't know how mappers put up with shit like this. If you can't express yourself with a thousand words maybe you shouldn't post here. You talk about things not making sense from an objective perspective and list up a bunch of stuff that are your personal opinion and nothing more, no matter how hard you try to spin it any other way. I don't know in which echo chamber you live in to have seen hate on this map literally everywhere. Maybe you should step out of your bubble for a bit and ignore the circlejerk you see by a few select people in this thread.
i guess i won't blame you if you won't hear it for the first time, but theres actually a quite quiet 1/2 percussion beat in this partStjpa wrote:
- 00:18:929 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Let's just go in-depth for on this pattern as an example. Just by looking at this and listening to the music I can't figure out at all what you are trying to emphasize in the music. The most intuitive thing would be the melody as it's by far the most dominant, however that doesn't fit as you are using big spacing from 1 to 2 which is totally fine, but on 3 the spacing gets extremely low in comparison to the previous two objects. Afterwards you are using 4 circles to...yeah, I really have no idea what you are trying to express with those. Would be completely fine if there was something special like you have 00:20:804 (4,5,1) - here (where the melody also hits the red tick to make the explanation short) but that's not the case. So to summarize this pattern, which was only an example of all the thousand similar patterns you have in this difficulty, it's purely random and totally ignoring the music as you are not doing what the music suggests. I'm not saying that the whole map is flawed as you did it correctly at some points, but a lot of patterns are really similar and thus not really expressing the music.
the reason for that is that i bulit up for hitfinish on 00:31:786 (1) -Stjpa wrote:
00:24:286 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - In what way is this pattern a lot more intense than everything before? From the objective perspective it seems like you tried to emphasize the different pitches correctly, however that's only partly the case. 00:22:143 (1,1,2,1,2,1) - here you did completely fine, it's extremely noticable that the pitch went a lot higher and another weird noisy sound appears but for some reason you totally escalate with the spacing two measures later and basically make it non-sense as the music gets a lot calmer...and any explanation like "the section is pretty much about to end so I want to emphasize that) doesn't really work as it's not really noticable in the music (and no where near expectable when listening to the song the first time anyway) so there's that.
ok i might kinda agree that this is a bit overhauled, but it also reflects the same pitch change as previously, i do that in other things you pointed out as well00:30:715 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - So I can clearly see that you tried to emphasize the higher pitch by using a pattern with higher density, which is totally fine, however you aren't even nearly doing the same 00:32:858 (1,2,3,4,5) - here which is like super confusing because it's just inconsistent, not only density-wise but even spacing-wise it's completely different with not really being anyhing different in the music that gives the player the feeling that the sudden change is justified.Stjpa wrote:
this is the one objective thing i kinda agree on, i just noticed theres no 1/4 in melody there LOL but still the whole section builds up nicely to the next post-stream section so it's actually negligible if there is a stream there or not since it's still a transition to another part of the music without the noises in the previous one, and the stream shows how you can distinguish that from the previous partStjpa wrote:
00:36:072 - For the ghost stream that actually is already weird enough and not justified at all (yes, your explanation for them aren't satisfying at all and don't really make sense Kroytz), it's even more weird that you aren't highlighting the drums that for some reason land on some red ticks, so basically another major issue where you pretty much just ignore the music.
are you deaf? there are no 1/2 vocals in there, this is a perfect place to use two 1/1 slidersStjpa wrote:
00:43:572 (1,2) - Hm, ignoring the 1/2 vocals here, mapping the 1/2 melody 00:44:375 (3,4) - here and then all of a sudden give the vocals some love 00:47:858 (1,2,3) - here...
Stjpa wrote:
These issues are pretty much in the whole map. However, the by far biggest issue in this diff are the screenjumps.
LE RAIKONEZEN JUMP TRAININGE MAPER XD TRASH 20 IQ MAPPER ONLY SPAM JUMPS IN EDITROR SO COCKEIZI PLAYS ITStjpa wrote:
screenjumps.
how ununderstandable that i put 1/2 jumps on a fucking 1/2 vocal section? also could you stop going full turbo shiirn autism with your "kiai emphasis" bullshit since it makes zero fucking sense making it a golden unspoken rule of mapping that is forbidden to be broke. if there are jumps that fit and might be bigger than some kiai jumps, why cant i just use them and why would i have to follow some nonsense principal?Stjpa wrote:
00:48:929 - in the section starting here you start placing jumps in a way that is not understandable for anyone who listens to the music properly when playing. Because of all the screenjumps you placed here all the emphasis you tried to use in the kiais, which are unarguably the most intense sections in the song by far, completely lose its emphasis and meaning as they are mapped the same way as in non-kiai parts even though they are stronger. Is that intuitive? Not really. Does it make sense? Not at all, and I'm sure you can agree on it, at least a lot of other people who aren't bad at modding / mapping or whatever can. This is just a very big flaw in the maps concepts which is crucial as maps are supposed to reflect the music, which doesn't happen here when you do something like this.
so you call the non-vocal part and vocal part the same? seriosly i start like i cant even treat you seriously anymoreStjpa wrote:
- 00:57:233 (4) - This is imo pretty much the same as the white tick on the slidertail of 00:52:679 (4) - so there should be another 1/1 gap to emphasis the strong upcoming melody instead of the vocals in this case, the 1/2 just feels really random to me because there's like exactly the same thing before but you just start adding objects to it when there's no reason to except than trying to build emphasis which can't really happen when you start going inconsistent.
there is a change from normal to drum hitsounding in 01:09:420 (3,4,5) - and a hitclap on 01:09:956 (5) -Stjpa wrote:
01:09:286 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - Extremely counter-intuitive that these two bursts lack hitsounding (and thus feedback) so hard when you even mapped a stream with normal hitsounding to a non-existent thing, don't you think?
holy FUCKING SHITStjpa wrote:
01:19:733 (4) - Not mapped to the vocals when you do it every time later on?
ok let me show you how this works:Stjpa wrote:
02:05:358 (2,3,4) - I'm wondering how this is supposed to be readable without an extra NC / good readable pattern. Stacked 1/3's are an extreme pain to read and since there's no special NC the player will still expect the rhythm to be either 1/2 or 1/4 just like usual, so in this case the player would tap 1/4s because there's no way to predict / read the 1/3's properly.
in the first one, you can hear the pitch coming back and forth, and so does that slider.Stjpa wrote:
Sometimes there are also patterns like 02:10:893 (1,3) - with no real (or clear) concept behind them, so they feel really forced when playing because the pattern is kinda special but there's no music making it fit or anything else that makes it more intuitive 02:23:750 (1,2,1,2) - lol 02:51:072 (1,2,3,1) - Since most objects were 1/4 anyway there's nothing wrong with doing the same same here (let alone that there are some 1/4 repeats with a really similar spacing) and 1/8's on this BPM are extremely punishing, so it's just really unneccesary to do this imo.
^ straight up rude btw.Stjpa wrote:
Yes it sounds rude and harsh, but honestly that's just the truth and there's no other way to say it
u better map actual sounds rather things that are barely hearable (if they really exist)Raikozen wrote:
i guess i won't blame you if you won't hear it for the first time, but theres actually a quite quiet 1/2 percussion beat in this part
The lower spacing of 00:19:197 (2,3) - is still not really justified, you emphasized the melody with bigger spacing but totally ignore it here which I find still questionable as you didn't answer that. The transition from 2 to 3 seems completely fine since there's a percussion, ok fine, but 1) why is it not hitsounded at all to give the player feedback that there's a percussion and 2) why is 00:19:733 (5,6) - mapped even stronger without really having anything it could emphasize?Raikozen wrote:
i guess i won't blame you if you won't hear it for the first time, but theres actually a quite quiet 1/2 percussion beat in this part
I don't really understand how it can even reflect the same pitch when the pitch is noticably lower and the previous pitch was like 2-3 seconds ago, so basically not relevant at all anymore.Raikozen wrote:
ok i might kinda agree that this is a bit overhauled, but it also reflects the same pitch change as previously, i do that in other things you pointed out as well
Fair enough, but there's still no reason to map the second build-up less intense when the intention of you is still the same there. Previously you cared about percussion and tried to give it extra emphasis, but 00:31:518 (3) - here you suddenly stop doing it. Not only that, 00:32:858 (1,3) - these have pretty much the same issue. And the overall spacing shouldn't be that much lower, it seems that the melody has a little lower pitch, but the spacing is going so much lower with barely a noticable change when not listening to it multiple times.Raikozen wrote:
the reason for that is that i bulit up for hitfinish on 00:31:786 (1) -
That's a reasoning you could use in any map if there's an actual stream leading into a new section. And there's still no reasoning on why you would avoid mapping to the strong drums in the background then.Raikozen wrote:
this is the one objective thing i kinda agree on, i just noticed theres no 1/4 in melody there LOL but still the whole section builds up nicely to the next post-stream section so it's actually negligible if there is a stream there or not since it's still a transition to another part of the music without the noises in the previous one, and the stream shows how you can distinguish that from the previous part
No vocals? I clearly hear 00:43:706 - an S here and an U 00:43:840 - here, so there are actually vocals lol.Raikozen wrote:
are you deaf? there are no 1/2 vocals in there, this is a perfect place to use two 1/1 sliders
well... and later on i map melody cuz there are no vocals in there?
and then i emphasized vocals cuz they are the most dominant thing? i legit dont wanna be obnoxious at this point but holy fucking shit could you like rehear stuff before you say something?
You are exactly repeating what I was saying and I gave you the reasoning on why it's not working as intended. If a map is built around (screen)jumps then they need to be special and emphasized, which can't happen here if you are using them in the whole map and thus not really giving the feeling of the structure you claim to use. Yes the song has great build-ups for sure, but you can emphasize everything differently (not only different spacing) so make everything feel more intuitive and unique.Raikozen wrote:
you might not have noticed, but whole map is bulit around these screenjumps, and that's the style i followed in this map. this map is made to make it feel massive and spacious, so it gives the extra vibe to the expirienced player who plays it, since the song itself has some great buildup points in my opinion, and it fits well also
I'm not saying that jumps outside of the kiai can't be larger than or equal to kiai jumps, however it's simply not possible here because the kiais are by far stronger because of the stronger melody and higher pitched voice so mapping them just the same is not mapping the difficulty accordingly to the music and reflecting it properly. Is that really that non-sense? I don't think so, and a lot of others don't think so either, so you have to do it properly because this is still a community-driven game.Raikozen wrote:
how ununderstandable that i put 1/2 jumps on a fucking 1/2 vocal section? also could you stop going full turbo shiirn autism with your "kiai emphasis" bullshit since it makes zero fucking sense making it a golden unspoken rule of mapping that is forbidden to be broke. if there are jumps that fit and might be bigger than some kiai jumps, why cant i just use them and why would i have to follow some nonsense principal?
When using the default skin which is common sense when discussing about hitsounding, it's way too hard to notice it which doesn't make sense considering the ghost-stream has a lot better hitsounding that gives good feedback even though there's no stream in the music...Raikozen wrote:
there is a change from normal to drum hitsounding in 01:09:420 (3,4,5) - and a hitclap on 01:09:956 (5) -
My bad that I worded it wrong. What I meant is that you aren't using a 1/1 slider for the long vocals like you did 01:20:000 (1,1,4) - and so onRaikozen wrote:
do i need to put a fucking 130 decibel megaphone right in front of your ear so you can hear that a vocal note starts over here?
This is common sense for you maybe, but not for some modders (like me in this example) or any player who doesn't analyze every damn map to learn different mapping techniques or anything like that.Raikozen wrote:
in most maps, if there's a burst at the end of the slider, it's most likely 1/4 and it has TWO notes (remember capsed numbers, they are important!)
if there are THREE ( :O ) notes in a 1/4 song that isnt a gimmicky map with doubles all the way, it means it's most likely 1/3!
This is also a really bad attitude. Just because a modder can't play the map, does not mean they can't bring valid arguments.Raikozen wrote:
if it plays bad for you, that just means you're just not good enough at the game, and that's it
Its not true. If you cant play the map, that means that your arguments are losing its value, so if you mod that way, the arguments you provide will be more theoretical rather than practical, which means its more subjective than objective. Which means, the way you understand mapping in theory can be way different from others (or the mapper in question rn), tho the mapping theory can be explained widely, so... uh.Naxess wrote:
This is also a really bad attitude. Just because a modder can't play the map, does not mean they can't bring valid arguments.
Word.MrSergio wrote:
I wonder when you guys will learn that subjective opinions are perfectly fine in the ranking process...
As long as the person states his reasons and provides examples of what he's saying, it's perfectly fine, so stop with your memery already.
If others don't like your work they have all the rights to tell you so (in a polite way, obviously)
Spoiler: it has always been like this
You probably dont understand (and im baffled of that tbh, considering ur position in staff), that for now, we got an RC with VERY distinct things in it.MrSergio wrote:
I wonder when you guys will learn that subjective opinions are perfectly fine in the ranking process...
As long as the person states his reasons and provides examples of what he's saying, it's perfectly fine, so stop with your memery already.
If others don't like your work they have all the rights to tell you so (in a polite way, obviously)
Spoiler: it has always been like this