Shiirn wrote:

To summarize as simply as possible:

The map has patterns and flow that do not belong in a song of this nature. AXION is not a powerful song. It is not a song that implies, when listening to it, fullscreen 1/4 jumps, regardless of whether or not they are playable.

The issue is that the higher difficulties are taking the music's beat patterns and applying patterns that do not belong with the music, do not fit the music's tempo, buildup, or power in any predictable or comfortable way.

While the individual patterns are possible and playable, the difficulty of them are all over the place and do not fit the theme of the song - which progressively builds up to "max energy" about 50% of the way in, before rapidly declining in the final 1/4th of the song. These patterns do not fit AXION. There are other songs where they can totally fit. Furioso melodia has a lower bpm but much, much, much higher intensity.

Nube wrote:

I'm tired of people getting offended when they are criticized for doing something VERY controversial. Meet the important arguements with your own instead of blaming it on biases. Try to make people understand exactly what you're trying to pull off, because if you can't even explain what you are doing, then how can you claim to know it's even remotely good?

Shiguma wrote:

Nube wrote:

I'm tired of people getting offended when they are criticized for doing something VERY controversial. Meet the important arguements with your own instead of blaming it on biases. Try to make people understand exactly what you're trying to pull off, because if you can't even explain what you are doing, then how can you claim to know it's even remotely good?

While the beatmaps may be controversial, isn't that kind of a good thing? Do we want to see the same exact style of mapping repeated over and over again? This map may be extreme, but many people can play these difficulties. It allows for creativity. HanzeR comes to mind, with his creative mapping style which people initially hated but seem to enjoy elements of now.

Nube wrote:

I never said being controversial is bad, I just said that you have to be able to explain why what you are doing is good. Stop putting words in my mouth and learn to read.

Shiguma wrote:

Isn't this completely subjective? Someone's opinion on this song may be it's not intense, while others think it is very intense.

Shiguma wrote:

I don't understand why it was disqualified for these gimmicky patterns especially when the star difficulty is above 6 stars. Isn't it really the people who can't even play 6* beatmaps the ones who are complaining that these maps are too hard? Isn't that the reason there is a difficulty spread?

Shiguma wrote:

While the beatmaps may be controversial, isn't that kind of a good thing? Do we want to see the same exact style of mapping repeated over and over again? This map may be extreme, but many people can play these difficulties. It allows for creativity. HanzeR comes to mind, with his creative mapping style which people initially hated but seem to enjoy elements of now.

Shiguma wrote:

Didn't the creators respond to the mods that were given on this beatmap?

JappyBabes wrote:

if HW responded to mods that criticize it'd be in osu weekly

Hollow Wings wrote:

why i map things like this? i got tons of test plays other than yours, and i can tell every detail if you care the so-called answers of "why you set pattern like this?" which just makes me sick, even this map's composing is much more brighter than common ranked ones recently from a mapping view.

yeah "play-ability does not equal quality", then do you guys really looked at the maps' quality without judging the play-ability? to me, the most important part of the quality DO IS play-ability, for a ranked map is made for PLAYING.

the map plays bad to you? good. i've already got 100+ players enjoyed the map and even 3 fc'ed scores.

fartownik wrote:

"the map plays bad to you? good." should be a quote of the year. Some people also enjoyed Big Black, some people have FC'd Big Black, it doesn't instantly make Big Black a good map. Also you mention playability, yes a good map's best feature should be playability, too bad your map doesn't really have that feature at places and you refuse to acknowledge that in the mods you get. Have a good day.

thou eventually that big black is one of the best maps in the year 2012, and it do is a really great map even you can't play it well. too bad if you can't play this map well, too. and also, i always replying to mods, any mods are welcomed, i know what i'm acknowledging and refusing.

Shiirn wrote:

We should really find a good english-> chinese and chinese->english translator to facilitate this.

JappyBabes wrote:

if HW responded to mods that criticize it'd be in osu weekly

bananannian wrote:

Shiirn wrote:

We should really find a good english-> chinese and chinese->english translator to facilitate this.

Uh, hang on a sec, how is language barrier an issue? Did someone reply to an English mod with Chinese or something? What needs translating?

Shiirn wrote:

Music is not entirely subjective.
Music is not entirely objective.
Mapping is not entirely subjective.
Mapping is not entirely objective.

...

JappyBabes wrote:

bad or good [...] but that has nothing to do with you being able to like it or not. You're free to like whatever you want

Kitami Erika wrote:

实在是不行了把我难度删了啊 留个Hard挺好 我觉得我现在这个难度实在是坠毁
打嘴仗简直他妈的天花乱坠 论题在以光速绕dq issue飞行但是就是不打在点上 真鸡巴累

KuranteMelodii wrote:

Kitami Erika wrote:

实在是不行了把我难度删了啊 留个Hard挺好 我觉得我现在这个难度实在是坠毁
打嘴仗简直他妈的天花乱坠 论题在以光速绕dq issue飞行但是就是不打在点上 真鸡巴累

今次DQ不是你的問題嗎。。。你的難度沒有問題的為什麼要刪了

Natsu wrote:

Hey guys can you avoid posting if you don't have nothing constructive to add? make suggestions and try to improve the map that's the only way to help the mapper, take your no sense out of here pls, thanks. Maybe gonna take a look later~

Nube wrote:

Natsu wrote:

Hey guys can you avoid posting if you don't have nothing constructive to add? make suggestions and try to improve the map that's the only way to help the mapper, take your no sense out of here pls, thanks. Maybe gonna take a look later~

Thing is, people are afraid their mods will be ignored as shown times before and that's why the discussion is there in the first place. Why bother trying to help someone who doesn't want to change? Before anything it would be nice to get a response from the mapper themself.

[Mahua] wrote:

Flower wrote:

[Mahua] wrote:

我一个2400pp的叒鸡哪有比在座一堆五六千pp的大神了解这图

Alveryn wrote:

Sorry for random mod, but Skystar's Expert is the only difficulty with Widescreen Support on which you might have forgot to turn off

Bara- wrote:

Let's try again

[General]
Add some kiai please. Irre/Skystar do have kiai in their diffs

[Easy]
01:08:650 (4) - It's such a calm part, and you have a 1/2 here. It's better if it's in the kiai, not in one of the calmest parts of the song imo this is a way to emphasise the change of rhythm of the next 4 bars. and the music is in fact changing abruptly

[Irre]
01:00:400 (1,2,1,1) - I don't think you need all these NCs Combos are only 1 long here yea

[LKs]
I still think HP needs to be lowered to 7, but up to you I feel current hp is ok, since a newbie like me can pass the middle part when missing quite some notes
01:54:400 (1) - I don't think the slider fits much, why not make it a strea>? the original bms uses a blank to emphasise the last notes, and I think this does make some sense

[Fanzhen]
00:38:275 (1,2,3,4) - Ctrl G please. This way the stream will flow much better k

[Skystar]
01:30:775 (5) - Please make this just 1 circle. It feels a bit weird for 1 loud sound to have a 1/8 slider attached k

Now go and revive this
I want to bubble it

Bara- wrote:

[LKs]I still think HP needs to be lowered to 7, but up to you

Zero__wind wrote:

你扶老二又回来了

Zero__wind wrote:

你扶老二又回来了

Hollow Wings wrote:

"protential chinese mappers 4" tried qualifying maps with their common spirit leader LKs who named it.

Hollow Wings wrote:

"protential chinese mappers 4 + 1 swiss mapper" tried qualifying maps with their common spirit leader LKs who named it.

Hollow Wings wrote:

"protential chinese mappers 4" tried qualifying maps with their common spirit leader LKs who named it.

Irreversible wrote:

Hollow Wings wrote:

"protential chinese mappers 4 + 1 swiss mapper" tried qualifying maps with their common spirit leader LKs who named it.

fixed

Shiirn wrote:

here we go again

Zero__wind wrote:

你扶老二又回来了

Flower wrote:

Your "mod" is appreciated

Flower wrote:

Have fun.

Stjpa wrote:

You are supposed to give a proper answer.

Flower wrote:

I didn't delete anything on accident. I explained the modification to the nominators and they agreed. Besides I have good reason Hollow Wings and I have already replied to these posts.

If you have no valid reason then you shouldn't have involved yourself in this non-contributing dequalification. That's it.

viptwo wrote:

This map was disqualified because there are valid reasons; not because someone is holding a grudge against you.

Flower wrote:

viptwo wrote:

This map was disqualified because there are valid reasons; not because someone is holding a grudge against you.

Edit: Or neither? How about neither? Because everyone loves me.

Sophia wrote:

Setting aside how hard it is to read, there are some things which just don't feel right with this mapset. I simply for the life of me cannot come to understand how, for example, in HW's EX, things like

01:12:775 (1,2,1,2,1,2) -

Are completely fine. It's practically a 1/4 fullscreen jump, when there are sections of the map that have a much shorter distance snap when they're 1/2 or similar. Distance snap seems to be something that was tossed out the window in a few of the difficulties. Even if it is fine for gimmicky reasons or mapping reasons I do not comprehend, a fullscreen 160bpm 1/4 jump doesn't really seem something we should be seeing in ranked mapsets. I suppose such things as basics kept in the wiki are not something that applies to popular, experient mappers. Or maybe the wiki just needs an overhaul. i don't see your exact point of why 160 1/4 jump is not fit to rank, otherwise it'll be not fit to rank anything breaking the distance snapping.

But what the hell, I'm no mapper and this is going to get ignored because I'm not good enough to play the difficulties regardless.

ecdonald wrote:

fmm...I'd like to have an opinion that we should just wait Hollow Wings but try to do reading comprehension her map and pick up some issues which is expected to help improving map actually with valid reason as much as possible before our be too belligerent. I think HW will explain the theory of HW's EX since, according to her user page, her mapping style is making objective sense.

It is hard too comprehend HW's EX for my skill, but I found one point to be a little worried about. just suggestion.

00:37:900 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - I couldn't find any good reason for these placing. it looks a bit too monotonous for the song because the sound of this song of this timing has not completely same melody. how about ctrl+G on 00:37:900 (1) - and 00:38:275 (3) - (separately) ? this up-and-down cirsor moving with this placing would follow the song-melody's up and down. and 00:38:650 (5,6,7,8) - has a bit different melody to 00:37:900 (1,2,3,4) - , so I'd recommend to change this placing, too. especially 00:39:025 (7,8) - would more fits with four 1/4 circles imo, which has slight special melody compete with before ones. the reason i set tapping point in really short distance here is for the map's following aiming style which really required good movement skill from players, like some 1/4 jumps and really fast sliders. aiming for this pattern may be a pause to them to get really in their own phase. for mapping way in some kind of emotional things, it's still working good that let players be focused on what'll appear even with more and more heated beats at 00:37:900 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - with overlapped and easy-to-complete pattern as well.

thanks! sorry for trespassing on the discussion (the reading long text is also lerning English for me who is poor at English lol), hope it gets requalify.

MillhioreF wrote:

As long as we're here, PLEASE fix 01:25:900 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4). The cursor movements required are incredibly unnatural, on top of the massive difficulty of the section in the first place. If you keep the spacing, at least provide some sort of flow like you do in the notes before it.

An example of how it could be fixed (doesn't have to be like this though)

SPOILER

Shad0w1and wrote:

只是觉得你的NC越改越难看了。。。不如之前的好，你现在这样根本不好读了
01:26:181 - 这里这一大串NC改回去啊，现在的丑爆了。。。能打的玩家还是能打，不能打的叒比还是一脸2逼 反对，这些nc极大的帮助了玩家的读图

SPOILER

01:21:775 (1,1,1,1) - 这几个NC怎么看怎么逗比。。。能打的依然能打。。不能打还是不能 同上
01:57:400 (6) - 考虑NC 没有在这里特意断开必要
00:21:962 (5,6,7) - 应该和 00:21:400 (1,2,3) - 00:22:337 (8,9,10) - 一样的间距 这里提供一种渐进的感觉
01:34:056 (4,5) - 01:35:556 (1) - 这两段还是改成一样吧 同上

Hula wrote:

So. I really don't understand nearly anything that's going on in AXION_REBORN

But, I believe that 00:53:093 - has a missing object at the very least in AXION_REBORN because you're mapping like everything occasioanlly (which is completely unnecessary and not suitable for osu - this is a rhythm game not a orchestra simulator) Currently the gap you have here looks completely broken when there should be an object cos there's drums and synth stuff. as discussed, this was an intended feature to let user to notice the long chord, which emphasises the music

Edit: So, 00:27:587 - no object here? You're mapping the synth most of the time, but you start off the intense rhythm stuff with something which isn't even in the song. This should be a triple. the music stressed the first two 1/4s but not the 3rd. this should be perfectly fitting.

00:27:681 (3) - This is a terrible example of how to use a repeat slider. You put the clap on the middle of the slider whilst the slider head and tail land on blue ticks which are synths which are constantly 1/4 beats for several bars. I don't understand. sometimes basic principles don't correspond to the real game play. the reverse after the long jump gives player a solid "reflection" feeling which emphasises the clap

00:43:525 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,1) - This section in the song has constant 1/4 synth stuff, but that's like the least interesting part of this part of the song. You could do such good things by mixing in the drums with the synth stuff. imo that's how the song goes. a repetitive 1/4 makes the player focus on the flow.

00:49:525 (1,2,3,4,1) - Overmap, no need for 1/8 sliders here. Sounds like we should be expecting a rollover sound, but we don't. there is a reverse drum, as I observe

01:00:212 (7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - This might look cool. But wtf. Going back on yourself in streams is ass. 01:00:681 (4,1) - I can hear in the song the justification for this, but it just doesn't fit. So, in this pattern you're mapping the piano, therefore why have you included in the same pattern this 01:00:400 (1,2,3) - this is not piano sounds part of the rhythm, yet you included it in the pattern making it look exactly the same as the rest which is confusing. The pattern should start at 01:00:681 (4) - being constant should help the player. I don't see how that would be confusing

01:00:400 (1) - This should basically be a 1/2 slider because right now this pattern doesn't make sense. not really a valid reason

Whilst we're at it, can you explain these jumps 01:34:525 (3,4,5) - So, there's a jump from 3 to 4 cos of a synth, but then there's a reduction in DS from 4 to 5 despite it being a drum and when you're listening to the song it is much more dominant than a subtle change in the synth stuff. because drums are deep in the frequency, that's how I emphasise them

01:38:650 (1,2,3,4) - These are all practically the same sounds yet why have you spaced them like this? They should have equal spacing. because they have difference in pitch

Flower wrote:

To Hula:

Your "mod" is appreciated, but not taken. The map is good, and you should feel good.

Have fun.

Hula wrote:

Are you fucking kidding me? Your mapset takes so many liberties. I'm busy this week and i wrote down a small but broad ranging mod cos i know that these issues have been brought up before and clearly haven't been dealt with.

Don't be rude. Thanks bro

P.s. if you end up denying everythig from everyone's mods, you're clearly bullshitting your way to an easy rank. This mapset has barely changed from the first time you tried to rank it

Hula wrote:

Are you fucking kidding me?

Hula wrote:

Don't be rude. Thanks bro

Hula wrote:

If you end up denying everythig from everyone's mods, you're clearly bullshitting your way to an easy rank. This mapset has barely changed from the first time you tried to rank it

Hula wrote:

All i'm saying is, don't deny everything, cos this is the 2nd time now and you'll only end up going around in circles. If it's not unrankable there's no real reason a mapper has to accept even one point

And monstrta you're the guy who tried to dq my mapset cos a quirky normal cos you don't like me. Don't try to take some moral high ground here about mindset towards dqing wow so you tell Flower not to be rude but then in the same post you are rude yourself, and then Monstrata is apparently a terrible person according to you