Okorin wrote:

[Extra]
I'd like to see AR reduced slightly, after testing around the most comfortable thing i personally found is AR 9.3 or 9.4, 9.5 left too few objects on the screen for me to comprehend patterns correctly and i don't think it's necessary as i got much better scores with less ar on it I'm not really one to care specifically about 0.1 AR or so, but to begin with Extra was originally meant to be 'harder' to help bridge the gap between Insane and Comfort, and upon removing Comfort, I've lowered the artificial difficulty patterns and settings and may have missed one or two spots, such as the AR or OD. Lowered AR to 9.3 and OD to 8.5.
i mean isnt this thing based around blankets because then half of them are lol and could be easily adjusted slightly but whatever I'm sorry for being abjectly and utterly shit at making blankets. I'm trying to improve at getting used to these magic three points. I haven't had years to fuck around with them like you kids. Everyone can say "Oh he's just fucking lazy" all they want to whoever they want but I genuinely do have trouble getting these things perfect and I'm trying to work on that.
00:02:895 (1,2) - 00:06:228 (1,2) - 00:09:353 (6,1,2) - when you do stuff this differently like this i just feel like you took reasoning and threw it out the window k, i'll just copy+paste the click patterns for all 3. The only one that is distinctly different is the last one and can be considered an error. I distinctly remember flipping #1 because someone bitched about the back-and-forth patterning so fuck them, it's going back to reversal. these are now consistent,
00:16:436 (2) - is nowhere near as stressed as 00:16:540 - but gets equal spacing to fuck my brain The stressing starts at 1. The spacing is 1-3 with a note in the center.
00:18:103 (5) - judging by how you mapped 00:17:478 (3,4) - the end of 5 should be clickable and not something like a sliderend Comfort had this as a triple, so here I made it a slider because it's easier to play. Extra is already obscenely hard to play because it's basically a 288bpm map that's trying to be single tappable. I gave up consistency for a less dense map, because Comfort was the one that pulled out all the bells and whistles. This is fine. Screw perfect consistency, I'm not making a google translate robot map.
00:21:540 (3) - not sure but i think this would capture the sound better as an 1/4 slider I disagree. As a sharp bass hit at the end of the beat pattern, a circle is more accurate than a 1/4 slider as the players should simply be brief tapping the last bass hit, not holding down for it. And with 144bpm, the difference between tapping a 1/2 and holding down a 1/4 is very different, especially for more experienced singletappers. (Alternators wouldn't even notice)
00:21:749 (1,2,3,4,5) - seem to change around between mapping 2 different layers so i don't know what you're following anymore ? it IS following two layers, namely ones that swap in and out. 00:22:061 (2,3) - is the piano/carnival whine that only plays for those two notes, 00:22:478 (4) - is a connector with the bass, 00:22:686 (5) - is the wub, which unfortunately ends on OMG A STRONG BEAT who cares, 00:22:999 (6,7) - returns to the piano/bassline.
00:31:332 (3) - based on how you mapped 00:30:811 (1,2) - the end ot this should be clickable :// I disagree. If you want to be perfectly consistent and map nothing but a single layer, you're going to end up with a map that doesn't capture the music, especially since this is "only" 144bpm. The biggest issue I personally see with Camellia maps is that mappers get fucking lazy and map just the easiest 1/2 1/4 patterning when shit gets wubby and wobbly. That's boring to me, I don't care how it plays or what people think about consistency. There are a thousand boring ass weeb shit maps people can play if they want to play uniform and consistent beat patterns. Camellia does not bring those to the table and that's why most camellia maps suck, because while they're perfectly playable and functional they barely scratch the surface of the music.
00:37:999 (4) - there's nothing really dominant to be focused on this sliderhead, actually the sound you might want to emphasise in some way is 00:37:895 - as an 1/2 or something but i don't get why this gets a jump yeah, 00:37:895 - should be clickable. It was part of my "lowering density of comfort" setup and it made a lot more sense when Comfort existed.
00:27:895 - isnt this 1/6 or am i dumb You're not dumb but 1/6 streams are horribly out of place in this track and break far past the border of spontaneity.
00:46:853 (1,2,3,4,1) - while i personally don't struggle much with this in particular i can see how people ould hate you for that People will hate me even if I design a map that was literally able to suck their dicks. I like it how it is, 1/6 quads are functional in this map. Single tappers actually get a use for their other finger and alternators need to speed up a bit.
01:14:353 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - have way more energy than "semi-stack"-streamjumps, i'd consider more spacing here because right now this feels rather like a setback instead an intense part which is quite boring for me These particular streams are a big problem for me. They're the biggest single avenue of fucking with the star rating for this map. If I make these jumps, I can easily spike the SR to 5.6 or 5.7 but that's just stupid as hell. I really don't know what to do with these and to be honest at this point I really don't care. I tried reversing the pairs so even if the actual movements aren't as heavy, there's still the illusion of jumpiness. I did the same for the second chorus.
01:17:999 (4) - fuck you i expected this to go the other way around (so 4 and 5 being reversed in terms of direction) I think it's fine right now, as the movement provided is fairly smooth.
01:18:936 (3,4) - why do you mess around with emphasis on slidertails this much if you don't do it anywhere before in kiai I actually had this arleady changed into two triples on the advice of another BN who was checking it but didn't get around to doing the other difficulties.
01:29:978 - sounds more like 01:29:978 - 01:30:030 - 01:30:117 - 01:30:256 - so it's an 1/8 and an 1/3 ? don't even bother trying to make the quavering voice perfect. It's practically impossible and the gameplay will not change in the slightest as long as the player is simply holding down their button.
01:38:415 (4,1) - do yo ueven care about blankets in this at all i don't even fucking see them, fixed i think it's probably uglier because i'm fucking bad.
01:49:562 (1,2) - 01:50:082 (1,2) - nah i dk why you feel the need to stack these on ends just to mindfuck ppl in the end or something ? ? ? it was fine at the start but no fuck it at the ending?

[]

No idea i think this could be structured waaaaaaaaay better and besides if the diff is based on blankets you could have at least put some effort into them :/
I don't think my opinion whether i like this or not is going to change unless you do huge changes to the diff, because as it seems to me now the song makes way more sense within itself than your map within itself and that's not something i can fix for you or that mods can fix for you.

either want to reflect this in your map or you dont and if you don't, don't ask me to icon this because you can't find someone else because everyone is like meh

Monstrata wrote:

[Ongaku's Another]

00:25:395 (6,8,10) - I'm wondering if you can make the spacing in between these sliders even? Right now 8 and 10 seem more spaced out than 6 and 8. I'm talking about the negative space/blanket space. fixed (ithink)
00:47:061 (2,4) - Blanket's off if you want to fix it. (It's fine if not tho, hardly noticeable, and it kinda might mess some stuff up)
01:29:978 (1,2,3) - Shouldn't this be 1/6? It was 1/6, but since this is an "insane," I toned it down.
01:42:895 (1) - This snapping doesn't align with the snapping in Hyper or Extra. I think Extra/Hyper's snapping is more correct, please doublecheck. Snapping should be consistent on a set except if you are trying to simply a rhythm due to difficulty (1/4 instead of 1/6 for a Hard/Insane). I think I fixed the snapping.
01:46:228 (1) - and 01:46:228 (1) - ^

[Hyper]

00:37:895 (2,3) - Can you make this blanket more even? Change slider 2 instead of 3, since 1 and 3 are aligned. fixed
00:48:311 (1,2) - Would be cool if these were evenly blanketted. fixed
00:53:104 (5,1) - Spacing doesn't seem right here, looking at the slider-heads. This one's too close together. fixed

Monstrata wrote:

This ended up taking a while mainly because of my exams. I really had to focus so yea, everything that I didn't manage to get done last week (during my one free day) had to wait until my next round of exams were finished lol. Now that they are, here's the recheck you've been waiting on. I can icon when you're ready.

[Extra]

00:12:270 (4,5) - Spacing here doesn't seem intentional. it's not
00:16:020 (1,1,2) - I think it's better to start the circle jumps on 00:16:228 - . It sounds more natural to me than 00:16:332 (1) - . Sure. Check what I did, comment on it if necessary.
00:57:999 (1) - Not going to add another slider on 00:58:207 - ? It just felt a bit empty for me. This is another one of those "Comfort did it and now everyone's used to seeing it and now that it's gone it feels empty" things. This works perfectly fine as-is I think.
01:16:645 (1) - Ctrl+G is more friendly. Flow's better coming out of the previous two silders. I mean I guess sure but it'll purely be visual as any compotent player will simply wait-hold in the center of the slider after.
01:26:853 (2) - Not really getting this slider. I think it's better to shorten to 1/4 and add another circle on 01:27:061 - . Using a sliderend for that beat feels wrong for me haha. It doesn't give proper emphasis imo. ok
[Ongaku's Another]

00:25:395 (6,8,10) - I'm wondering if you can make the spacing in between these sliders even? Right now 8 and 10 seem more spaced out than 6 and 8. I'm talking about the negative space/blanket space.
00:47:061 (2,4) - Blanket's off if you want to fix it. (It's fine if not tho, hardly noticeable, and it kinda might mess some stuff up)
01:29:978 (1,2,3) - Shouldn't this be 1/6?
01:42:895 (1) - This snapping doesn't align with the snapping in Hyper or Extra. I think Extra/Hyper's snapping is more correct, please doublecheck. Snapping should be consistent on a set except if you are trying to simply a rhythm due to difficulty (1/4 instead of 1/6 for a Hard/Insane). Just wanted to say that this snapping weirdness was a result of a weird resnap part and then i went over it and saw they weren't stacked correctly and 'fixed' it. This was an error and it should be fixed now.
01:46:228 (1) - and 01:46:228 (1) - ^

[Hyper]

00:37:895 (2,3) - Can you make this blanket more even? Change slider 2 instead of 3, since 1 and 3 are aligned.
00:48:311 (1,2) - Would be cool if these were evenly blanketted.
00:53:104 (5,1) - Spacing doesn't seem right here, looking at the slider-heads. This one's too close together.

Shiirn wrote:

i like to pretend that salt is an healthy part of every diet

-Kanzaki wrote:

Extra :
01:42:895 (1,2) - 01:43:520 (1,2) - These are emphasized just as same do you really believe these should be emphasized as the same and you think these are both strong. I believe second one isn't strong as the first one making that flows breaking as same on both isn't really good. They're slightly different and that's good enough for me.

01:28:415 (1) - the thing you followed with this slider 01:28:624 - is actually also here too, why leave empty Because the voice is a fucking nightmare to time and it's better to leave empty so it's not confusing as hell.

01:50:082 (1,2,3) - I don't know while what i am going to say is subjective, breaking flows this much on this sounds are way too much for me i don't think they are so strong to be like others. Flow doesn't matter here.

00:22:061 (2,3) - 00:15:395 (3,4) - I believe these are similar sounds on the song but the spacing is really different why is that The spacing is like, maybe a dozen pixels different and even the movements are similar....?

00:18:728 (3,4) - I totally don't agree with this spacing this one is calmer than others but spaced this much as same as others not good. Can you even play this difficulty? 1/4 spacing at 144 bpm between circles and sliders is actually extremely easy. I think you played it like once.

00:34:561 (3,4) - This could be high spaced like 00:29:561 (2,3) - and actually 00:34:561 (3,4) - is stronger than this too. The entire point is that the sharp movement is on 2,3. After that, 4 is simply ending the pattern, the spacing being low is irrelevant.

01:29:249 (4,5) - Not strong enough to flow break like this much again. Any suggestions regarding "flow" will be discarded. I intentionally break flow, and if you disagree with how I break flow, just call me a shitty mapper.

00:47:061 (4,5) - 00:50:395 (3,4) - aren't these similar some sort of spacing again different and way too much on first 50:395 has a much harder 1/4 roll after it that is the focus of the pattern. 47:061 focuses on the 1/6th roll and emphasizes that.

I don't know check if you agree or not most of them is subjective but generally this diff's flows are hell for me and does not plays good for me at all. That's just unfortunate then. I don't want to channel hollow wings here but if it plays badly for you, good. Not everyone is capable of playing maps intentionally made to bring challenges other than "1/2 jumps" and that's completely fine.

EvilElvis wrote:

Extra :
00:26:540 (2,3) - no-no this is the right one i guess 00:26:645 (3) - is actually representing the background 1/4 tremble. It plays fine.
Others are just suggestions:
00:31:332 (3,4) - would help keep strong beats clickable Strong beats being clickable is irrelevant. These two sliders are very simple to hit and are meant to be that way. Literally doubling the number of clicks to make sure that the strong beats "get their due" would make the experience completely different.
00:32:165 (2,3) - i'd say I disagree. I'm okay with how the current click patterns are.

There was more but i can't post all of them right now, if there will be a need in continuing this mod poke me via pm or something

Shiirn wrote:

In the interest of saving everyone's time, especially helpful passerby modders, let me say this:

Anything that is not directly unrankable and can be classified as "subjective" or "issues with consistency" will be subsequently denied.

Please don't waste my or your time as I have gone over every inch of this map and while I don't believe it is perfect nor that it reaches my vision of what this map can be, it is viable enough for the purposes of ranking. Anything that can be mentioned regarding consistency is inconsistent for a reason. You may not like the reason, but unless you are a QAT specifically going to DQ the map because you disagree with me, we're going to have to live with said disagreement staining our lives forevermore.

If you're disappointed in me as a mapper or you don't like this map: I don't care. This map started off as a simple happy, vibrant, barely contained explosion of energy, and now it's just a pile of conflicting opinions from people I barely respect, much less like, who forced themselves onto the map as if it were their civic duty to make me "see the light" and "accept consistency".

Shiirn wrote:

Extra :
01:42:895 (1,2) - 01:43:520 (1,2) - These are emphasized just as same do you really believe these should be emphasized as the same and you think these are both strong. I believe second one isn't strong as the first one making that flows breaking as same on both isn't really good. They're slightly different and that's good enough for me.

01:28:415 (1) - the thing you followed with this slider 01:28:624 - is actually also here too, why leave empty Because the voice is a fucking nightmare to time and it's better to leave empty so it's not confusing as hell.

01:50:082 (1,2,3) - I don't know while what i am going to say is subjective, breaking flows this much on this sounds are way too much for me i don't think they are so strong to be like others. Flow doesn't matter here. How flow doesn't matter on anywhere anyway. You are adding a feeling with that flow and it makes player get excited on here. But you say it doesn't matter

00:22:061 (2,3) - 00:15:395 (3,4) - I believe these are similar sounds on the song but the spacing is really different why is that The spacing is like, maybe a dozen pixels different and even the movements are similar....? It is not similar difficulty

00:18:728 (3,4) - I totally don't agree with this spacing this one is calmer than others but spaced this much as same as others not good. Can you even play this difficulty? 1/4 spacing at 144 bpm between circles and sliders is actually extremely easy. I think you played it like once. I am asking you why did you map this same as others while it is calmer in song. You are telling me it is also easy to play like others???

00:34:561 (3,4) - This could be high spaced like 00:29:561 (2,3) - and actually 00:34:561 (3,4) - is stronger than this too. The entire point is that the sharp movement is on 2,3. After that, 4 is simply ending the pattern, the spacing being low is irrelevant.

01:29:249 (4,5) - Not strong enough to flow break like this much again. Any suggestions regarding "flow" will be discarded. I intentionally break flow, and if you disagree with how I break flow, just call me a shitty mapper. Yea i will make screen jumps on calmest parts of the song too.

00:47:061 (4,5) - 00:50:395 (3,4) - aren't these similar some sort of spacing again different and way too much on first 50:395 has a much harder 1/4 roll after it that is the focus of the pattern. 47:061 focuses on the 1/6th roll and emphasizes that.

I don't know check if you agree or not most of them is subjective but generally this diff's flows are hell for me and does not plays good for me at all. That's just unfortunate then. I don't want to channel hollow wings here but if it plays badly for you, good. Not everyone is capable of playing maps intentionally made to bring challenges other than "1/2 jumps" and that's completely fine.

1. 00:26:540 (2,3) - is pretty obvious that your rhythm is following the song in the wrong way, I checked your reply to Elvis mod and still don't make much sense, the 1/4 thing already started before that, following the active beats is what will be more intuitive, actually every suggestion from Elvis is not subjetive o.o, but really objetive talking about correct rhythm ofc.
2. 00:27:895 (1,1,1,1) - spamming combos looks nice? because the stream is pretty much the smae 1/4 the only thing that changes is that is stacked, so the only NC that you need is 00:27:895 (1) -
3. 00:57:999 (1) - 01:01:332 (1,2) - 01:04:665 (1) - 01:07:999 (1) - why are these mapped in different way ? since is the same music at both places, unless your rhythm is inconsistent on purpose, I don't see any other reason to do this. Just make 01:01:332 (1,2) - like the other ones.
4. 01:09:665 - sounds super weird that you are ignoring this loud beat :l
5. 01:42:895 (1,2) - Why are you doing the manual stack at this kind of patterns now, when you didn't before for example 00:02:895 (1,2) - , looks inconsistent and not something that we gonna expect from an experienced mapper, specially whe multiple people are telling you to be more consistent with this map.
6. Also there are a bunch of inconsistencies, overall the design is poor made IMO, and there are a bunch of blankets off, I mean if your archive is to make rankable maps then is fine, but I really think you could do alot better than this, specially with tiny stuff like blankets to important stuff as is the rhythm of the song >:

1. 00:08:311 (1,2) - 1,0 spacing, but 01:06:645 (1,2) - 1,10 here, seems there is a small error
2. 01:40:811 (1,1,2) - here too

Natsu wrote:

gonna bring my opinions on this as well:

1. 00:26:540 (2,3) - is pretty obvious that your rhythm is following the song in the wrong way, I checked your reply to Elvis mod and still don't make much sense, the 1/4 thing already started before that, following the active beats is what will be more intuitive, actually every suggestion from Elvis is not subjetive o.o, but really objetive talking about correct rhythm ofc. The first click is following the same pattern as the notes before it. The 1/2 after it is following the fairly subtle 1/8 triple starting 00:26:645 - and ending 00:26:749 - and at the end of the slider. Because it'd be incredibly confusing and hard to play such a combination of clicks, it's a simple slider instead.
2. 00:27:895 (1,1,1,1) - spamming combos looks nice? because the stream is pretty much the smae 1/4 the only thing that changes is that is stacked, so the only NC that you need is 00:27:895 (1) - This NC was purely for aesthetic reasons and for further emphasizing what made these four beats different. If it's directly unrankable, go call a QAT.
3. 00:57:999 (1) - 01:01:332 (1,2) - 01:04:665 (1) - 01:07:999 (1) - why are these mapped in different way ? since is the same music at both places, unless your rhythm is inconsistent on purpose, I don't see any other reason to do this. Just make 01:01:332 (1,2) - like the other ones. The second one starts with the DJ scratches, the rest are all the same. Consistency issues like this are intended. You want my reasoning, you've got it. Now you can disagree with it and I'll be the one who's wrong.
4. 01:09:665 - sounds super weird that you are ignoring this loud beat :l Because the wacky slider is clearly following the scry. not every bass beat needs a click. (HEATHENRY, i know.)
5. 01:42:895 (1,2) - Why are you doing the manual stack at this kind of patterns now, when you didn't before for example 00:02:895 (1,2) - , looks inconsistent and not something that we gonna expect from an experienced mapper, specially whe multiple people are telling you to be more consistent with this map. Originally, the "manual stacks" were different because I had a cohesive theme to the map. After the explosion of the kiai. the spacing was more rickety and less perfect because all of the energy of the song has been expended and it's now just falling apart as the song ends.
6. Also there are a bunch of inconsistencies, overall the design is poor made IMO, and there are a bunch of blankets off, I mean if your archive is to make rankable maps then is fine, but I really think you could do alot better than this, specially with tiny stuff like blankets to important stuff as is the rhythm of the song >: name every single blanket and every single aesthetic change that provides no change to direct gameplay and i'll happily fix them if you offer to work with me to re-rank the map. Otherwise, it's clearly not important enough for either of us to get worked over on.

anyways gl with this

shARPII wrote:

Shiirn, can you stop whining here, take a break, go outside, deep breath and come back later.
You're just tilted and it doesn't help anyone here. Don't make me lock this :/

moki wrote:

I liked every version of this mapset, thanks for spending your precious time on mapping this masterpiece.

Okorin wrote:

What i dont understand is why you seem to have little interest in making this map more like your vision of the song again and instead want to rank it as is for the sake of ongaku? I thought you cared more

Loctav wrote:

Sadly, you have to make an agreement with the community, not with the QAT. They won't judge your map anymore. So better put the effort to convince people raising concerns here that this creation is fine as it is or do not try to get it Ranked.

Voli wrote:

After reading all this I'll probably not try to rank a map ever again with these new "'community-driven" checks nobody ever wanted and nobody asked for. Seeing how ranking your map is already a very long and hard process, especially if you are an unknown mapper, the tiny amount of effort it takes for anyone to be able to DQ a map is just outright stupid.

a loli wrote:

Community-driven checks are not wrong, it's that the vocal community that are doing these "checks" have the wrong mindset. Looking at a map through editor is a lot different than actually playing the map, which is the problem with difficult maps; most of the modders can't play the map as it is intended so they base all their claims in the editor.

Voli wrote:

I agree, they are not wrong, but with the current system of ''any complaints are DQ-worthy so we can discuss first, then have fun repeating the cycle again'' it just doesn't feel worth it anymore to try to rank a map. It causes stress, worry and anger more than it has positive sides. If there was a quick way to instantly re-rank a map without having to go through all this bullshit every time, maybe then it would work.

a loli wrote:

All this leads to is a chain of "have-to-do" mods, giving an end result of a map that doesn't in the slightest resemble the original.

maps that come up at the top of my head are tengaku and toumei elegy

Avishay wrote:

I honestly feel like the one at fault for the current state of the beatmap is the community rather than Shiirn, I bet Shiirn wants to make as many people as possible satisfied, but that's not really possible for this one.

It is good that the qualification is even more community-driven right now, but as long as mapping is an abstract subject with so many ways of interpretation, there WILL BE people that dislike a map, be it a pattern, a structure, you can't satisfy everyone, this game is different for everyone, one might like the surprising intensity changes, another one will enjoy the huge jumps, BUT CMON, people can't agree on everything, especially on such a song and unorthodox map.

Shiirn tried his best to change the difficulties in a way that will feel appropriate for most people, but people nag on stuff that were changed due to previous suggestions, in the end it is not just Shirn's map, but just a mixup of opinions that might and might not make it enjoyable for some people.

Please, if you don't want to see this ranked, if you don't like the way it is mapped, or you just simply dislike this thread, LEAVE, if you don't want to see this map appear on your browser, tell me and I'll create a script that hides it, just for you.

Forlornly wrote:

Having said that
Extra
00:59:353 (4,5,6) - requires insane control and velocity change, especially considering the direction the cursor is coming in at from the previous (3) slider. i get that inconsistency is a theme in this map but this part is so much harder than the rest of the map; i think there should be SOME consistency when it comes to patterns and difficulty. ( 00:59:353 (4,5) - were originally in a position closer to THIS, which I feel is much more sensible with the pattern, but it got complaints about "flow" because it's a 4,5 being fairly close together with a large jump to 6 without it being big enough to "feel" like a jump. This is one of those "Fixes" I'm happy to undo and return to its original state - but I don't always remember exactly what I did originally until someone points it out.

01:35:707 (5,1,2,3) - not sure if anybody else had this problem but this is bizarre rhythmic/spacing choice and it's very hard to read. that would be fine, but there's nothing else of the sort in any other part of the map, and again i think there should be SOME consistency in the map This is the end of the entire section and the departure of the vocals, and they follow the vocals in a very off-beat way. This is very bizarre to play, but that's intended. On Discomfort, it plays differently because the song continues the (much easier to follow) repeated click pattern. On extra, it's purely off-beat but also requires little to no movement, so it's a different sort of challenge I guess. not entirely sure what to do to extra because it's such a mess now.
these are the two things that stood out to me the most, everything else is perfect imo

Chyo-Kun wrote:

I will drop my piece of opinion about the Discomfort diff, be it ignored or not by the mapper:

00:12:895 (1,2,3,4) - I get what you're tryng to represent here and it's a good concept, but you can still keep the feeling AND nerf the jump to make it more playable. The big issue with doing any sort of spacing nerf here is that the movements lose context due to all of the notes (except 4) being on previous notes. (1 used to be underneath 00:12:270 (4) - ). The spacing is ridiculous, I totally agree, and it fits what I'm trying to do, but is just a bit crazy big. But I can't shrink it either without completely restructuring the pattern. I'll probably fiddle with this some more one day, but today is not that day.

01:13:311 to 01:25:290 - I love this part, the climax with the bigger spacing feels awesome and fits very well into the song, but 01:26:645 this next part is a little less lively yet you've kept similar spacing and difficulty, which in my opinion should be lowered to go along better with the song Due to how the song is structured, decreasing the spacing of things such as 01:27:061 (3,5,7) - would also necessitate the movement or re-structuring of 01:27:999 (2,4) - , 01:28:728 (4,6) - , 01:29:353 (1,3) - , I think you get the picture. The spacing is, indeed, large, but in a different vein from the burst of the first kiai because the second one alternates very quickly between sliders and circles, rather than the first kiai's nearly PURE circles, so the actual difficulty is lower due to the lower click density. This is one of those "It looks like the spacing is the same in editor" but "actually plays much easier" situations. I really appreciate how you noticed this, though, as it gives me a chance to explain my reasoning as to why I chose to keep such ridiculous-at-a-glance spacing.

These advices are really vague and would require, if applied, a partial re-map of those sections (which I can tell by your other posts aren't willing to do) but even if applied wouldn't "fix" the map from a technical point of view, it's still awkward with all the spacing/flow "issues"

Monstrata wrote:

The problem here is that this map desperately needs moddingv2. Many of the points made in these post-qualified mods have already been addressed multiple times before. I even mentioned a lot of them to Shiirn to hear his reasoning for the 50th time hoping to get him to change some stuff. We fixed quite a few rhythms, but the inherent problem is that with certain maps, this being a great example, there are always going to be patterns people find questionable. It's really draining on the mapper having to explain their reasoning so many times. If there were a way to document and pen down a mapper's reasoning for specific patterns (like moddingv2) we could reach a consensus much more easily because the discussion will ideally move away from these "why did you do this?" questions to "I agree/disagree with your reasoning and why".

Ongaku wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

The problem here is that this map desperately needs moddingv2. Many of the points made in these post-qualified mods have already been addressed multiple times before. I even mentioned a lot of them to Shiirn to hear his reasoning for the 50th time hoping to get him to change some stuff. We fixed quite a few rhythms, but the inherent problem is that with certain maps, this being a great example, there are always going to be patterns people find questionable. It's really draining on the mapper having to explain their reasoning so many times. If there were a way to document and pen down a mapper's reasoning for specific patterns (like moddingv2) we could reach a consensus much more easily because the discussion will ideally move away from these "why did you do this?" questions to "I agree/disagree with your reasoning and why".

Problem with modding v2 is that its gonna have a lot more of people's opinion. Its gonna go back and forth with agreements and disagreements, until they come to a consensus and find the map entirely different, which is against the mapper's will, which is what kind of happened here.

I don't know if its just me and my stupid thinking, I also think that Modding v2 might bring it into a new direction and change things, but will it actually be for the better? If you could, shine some light on me. I'm probably not thinking about Modding v2 correctly.

shARPII wrote:

Ok guys this isn't the place for a thesis about the importance of users in mappers choices.
If you want to run something more serious, create a topic here and discuss freely : 56
I'll start to remove content which aren't mods for this specific map (or helping this map) under this post.

What everyone said about modding v2 wrote:

<stuff>

Monstrata wrote:

Hmm... I wouldn't think of moddingv2 like that. I don't think there's a necessity to change your map in order to appease every member of the community. I was thinking more in the lines of having some way to document one's reasoning for certain patterns and why one is unwilling to change them. It seems a better option than having to explain your reasoning again and again because people aren't reading up on previous mod posts/replies.

Moosqueak wrote:

Just gonna throw it out there that I found both [Comfort] and honestly, especially [Unrankable] very fun. As someone who alternates, it's a joy to play, even though it's incredibly difficult. I really don't think it needed many changes, because nitpicking minor things in a crazy map like that is like trying to use white-out to cover up certain portions of a mural. Why even bother? It's pointless and you're just heavily damaging something which was beautiful on its own. Really, players who lack the ability to alternate or singletap extremely quickly don't have much place commenting on this map, as it's meant for alting, in the same way Everything Went Numb, Scarlet Rose, and Meikaruza are. It's not playable for the majority of the playerbase simply because it's not their playstyle, and on top of that, it's unquestionably the hardest alternating map I've seen hit qualified. Honestly, in my personal opinion, it should be rolled back to an earlier iteration and modding should be redone from there, but I doubt that will happen based on Shiirn's current emotional state regarding the set. Everyone really should stop being a pain in the ass about this. The game is about fun, not about ruining that of everyone else.

Unless that's how you have fun, I guess.

Shiro wrote:

I don't get what's wrong with this. Why was it DQ'd? This is perfectly playable (albeit insanely hard) and it's even well done.

Shiirn wrote:

Ongaku, I renamed Comfort to Discomfort when I readded it. Current Discomfort = Post-DQ Comfort.

Ongaku wrote:

You do know that the set isnt going for rank anymore.
Discomfort was also a troll diff, but as added on since people liked it.