Okorin wrote:

What i dont understand is why you seem to have little interest in making this map more like your vision of the song again and instead want to rank it as is for the sake of ongaku? I thought you cared more

Loctav wrote:

Sadly, you have to make an agreement with the community, not with the QAT. They won't judge your map anymore. So better put the effort to convince people raising concerns here that this creation is fine as it is or do not try to get it Ranked.

Voli wrote:

After reading all this I'll probably not try to rank a map ever again with these new "'community-driven" checks nobody ever wanted and nobody asked for. Seeing how ranking your map is already a very long and hard process, especially if you are an unknown mapper, the tiny amount of effort it takes for anyone to be able to DQ a map is just outright stupid.

a loli wrote:

Community-driven checks are not wrong, it's that the vocal community that are doing these "checks" have the wrong mindset. Looking at a map through editor is a lot different than actually playing the map, which is the problem with difficult maps; most of the modders can't play the map as it is intended so they base all their claims in the editor.

Voli wrote:

I agree, they are not wrong, but with the current system of ''any complaints are DQ-worthy so we can discuss first, then have fun repeating the cycle again'' it just doesn't feel worth it anymore to try to rank a map. It causes stress, worry and anger more than it has positive sides. If there was a quick way to instantly re-rank a map without having to go through all this bullshit every time, maybe then it would work.

a loli wrote:

All this leads to is a chain of "have-to-do" mods, giving an end result of a map that doesn't in the slightest resemble the original.

maps that come up at the top of my head are tengaku and toumei elegy

Avishay wrote:

I honestly feel like the one at fault for the current state of the beatmap is the community rather than Shiirn, I bet Shiirn wants to make as many people as possible satisfied, but that's not really possible for this one.

It is good that the qualification is even more community-driven right now, but as long as mapping is an abstract subject with so many ways of interpretation, there WILL BE people that dislike a map, be it a pattern, a structure, you can't satisfy everyone, this game is different for everyone, one might like the surprising intensity changes, another one will enjoy the huge jumps, BUT CMON, people can't agree on everything, especially on such a song and unorthodox map.

Shiirn tried his best to change the difficulties in a way that will feel appropriate for most people, but people nag on stuff that were changed due to previous suggestions, in the end it is not just Shirn's map, but just a mixup of opinions that might and might not make it enjoyable for some people.

Please, if you don't want to see this ranked, if you don't like the way it is mapped, or you just simply dislike this thread, LEAVE, if you don't want to see this map appear on your browser, tell me and I'll create a script that hides it, just for you.

Forlornly wrote:

Having said that
Extra
00:59:353 (4,5,6) - requires insane control and velocity change, especially considering the direction the cursor is coming in at from the previous (3) slider. i get that inconsistency is a theme in this map but this part is so much harder than the rest of the map; i think there should be SOME consistency when it comes to patterns and difficulty. ( 00:59:353 (4,5) - were originally in a position closer to THIS, which I feel is much more sensible with the pattern, but it got complaints about "flow" because it's a 4,5 being fairly close together with a large jump to 6 without it being big enough to "feel" like a jump. This is one of those "Fixes" I'm happy to undo and return to its original state - but I don't always remember exactly what I did originally until someone points it out.

01:35:707 (5,1,2,3) - not sure if anybody else had this problem but this is bizarre rhythmic/spacing choice and it's very hard to read. that would be fine, but there's nothing else of the sort in any other part of the map, and again i think there should be SOME consistency in the map This is the end of the entire section and the departure of the vocals, and they follow the vocals in a very off-beat way. This is very bizarre to play, but that's intended. On Discomfort, it plays differently because the song continues the (much easier to follow) repeated click pattern. On extra, it's purely off-beat but also requires little to no movement, so it's a different sort of challenge I guess. not entirely sure what to do to extra because it's such a mess now.
these are the two things that stood out to me the most, everything else is perfect imo

Chyo-Kun wrote:

I will drop my piece of opinion about the Discomfort diff, be it ignored or not by the mapper:

00:12:895 (1,2,3,4) - I get what you're tryng to represent here and it's a good concept, but you can still keep the feeling AND nerf the jump to make it more playable. The big issue with doing any sort of spacing nerf here is that the movements lose context due to all of the notes (except 4) being on previous notes. (1 used to be underneath 00:12:270 (4) - ). The spacing is ridiculous, I totally agree, and it fits what I'm trying to do, but is just a bit crazy big. But I can't shrink it either without completely restructuring the pattern. I'll probably fiddle with this some more one day, but today is not that day.

01:13:311 to 01:25:290 - I love this part, the climax with the bigger spacing feels awesome and fits very well into the song, but 01:26:645 this next part is a little less lively yet you've kept similar spacing and difficulty, which in my opinion should be lowered to go along better with the song Due to how the song is structured, decreasing the spacing of things such as 01:27:061 (3,5,7) - would also necessitate the movement or re-structuring of 01:27:999 (2,4) - , 01:28:728 (4,6) - , 01:29:353 (1,3) - , I think you get the picture. The spacing is, indeed, large, but in a different vein from the burst of the first kiai because the second one alternates very quickly between sliders and circles, rather than the first kiai's nearly PURE circles, so the actual difficulty is lower due to the lower click density. This is one of those "It looks like the spacing is the same in editor" but "actually plays much easier" situations. I really appreciate how you noticed this, though, as it gives me a chance to explain my reasoning as to why I chose to keep such ridiculous-at-a-glance spacing.

These advices are really vague and would require, if applied, a partial re-map of those sections (which I can tell by your other posts aren't willing to do) but even if applied wouldn't "fix" the map from a technical point of view, it's still awkward with all the spacing/flow "issues"

Monstrata wrote:

The problem here is that this map desperately needs moddingv2. Many of the points made in these post-qualified mods have already been addressed multiple times before. I even mentioned a lot of them to Shiirn to hear his reasoning for the 50th time hoping to get him to change some stuff. We fixed quite a few rhythms, but the inherent problem is that with certain maps, this being a great example, there are always going to be patterns people find questionable. It's really draining on the mapper having to explain their reasoning so many times. If there were a way to document and pen down a mapper's reasoning for specific patterns (like moddingv2) we could reach a consensus much more easily because the discussion will ideally move away from these "why did you do this?" questions to "I agree/disagree with your reasoning and why".

Ongaku wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

The problem here is that this map desperately needs moddingv2. Many of the points made in these post-qualified mods have already been addressed multiple times before. I even mentioned a lot of them to Shiirn to hear his reasoning for the 50th time hoping to get him to change some stuff. We fixed quite a few rhythms, but the inherent problem is that with certain maps, this being a great example, there are always going to be patterns people find questionable. It's really draining on the mapper having to explain their reasoning so many times. If there were a way to document and pen down a mapper's reasoning for specific patterns (like moddingv2) we could reach a consensus much more easily because the discussion will ideally move away from these "why did you do this?" questions to "I agree/disagree with your reasoning and why".

Problem with modding v2 is that its gonna have a lot more of people's opinion. Its gonna go back and forth with agreements and disagreements, until they come to a consensus and find the map entirely different, which is against the mapper's will, which is what kind of happened here.

I don't know if its just me and my stupid thinking, I also think that Modding v2 might bring it into a new direction and change things, but will it actually be for the better? If you could, shine some light on me. I'm probably not thinking about Modding v2 correctly.

shARPII wrote:

Ok guys this isn't the place for a thesis about the importance of users in mappers choices.
If you want to run something more serious, create a topic here and discuss freely : 56
I'll start to remove content which aren't mods for this specific map (or helping this map) under this post.

What everyone said about modding v2 wrote:

<stuff>

Monstrata wrote:

Hmm... I wouldn't think of moddingv2 like that. I don't think there's a necessity to change your map in order to appease every member of the community. I was thinking more in the lines of having some way to document one's reasoning for certain patterns and why one is unwilling to change them. It seems a better option than having to explain your reasoning again and again because people aren't reading up on previous mod posts/replies.

Moosqueak wrote:

Just gonna throw it out there that I found both [Comfort] and honestly, especially [Unrankable] very fun. As someone who alternates, it's a joy to play, even though it's incredibly difficult. I really don't think it needed many changes, because nitpicking minor things in a crazy map like that is like trying to use white-out to cover up certain portions of a mural. Why even bother? It's pointless and you're just heavily damaging something which was beautiful on its own. Really, players who lack the ability to alternate or singletap extremely quickly don't have much place commenting on this map, as it's meant for alting, in the same way Everything Went Numb, Scarlet Rose, and Meikaruza are. It's not playable for the majority of the playerbase simply because it's not their playstyle, and on top of that, it's unquestionably the hardest alternating map I've seen hit qualified. Honestly, in my personal opinion, it should be rolled back to an earlier iteration and modding should be redone from there, but I doubt that will happen based on Shiirn's current emotional state regarding the set. Everyone really should stop being a pain in the ass about this. The game is about fun, not about ruining that of everyone else.

Unless that's how you have fun, I guess.

Shiro wrote:

I don't get what's wrong with this. Why was it DQ'd? This is perfectly playable (albeit insanely hard) and it's even well done.

Shiirn wrote:

Ongaku, I renamed Comfort to Discomfort when I readded it. Current Discomfort = Post-DQ Comfort.

Ongaku wrote:

You do know that the set isnt going for rank anymore.
Discomfort was also a troll diff, but as added on since people liked it.

Secretpipe wrote:

guys chill

Shiguma wrote:

Curious, how much has Comfort difficulty changed since map's creation?

Also, do these timing points do anything in the difficulty?

Mazziv wrote:

they change the slider velocity

Shiguma wrote:

Mazziv wrote:

they change the slider velocity

But it's a spinner

Shiguma wrote:

Curious, how much has Comfort difficulty changed since map's creation?

Also, do these timing points do anything in the difficulty?

Shiirn wrote:

I'm a funny guy.

Shiirn wrote:

I'm not actually that good a mapper.

Kalindraz wrote:

Discomfort

1. First and foremost, the question I have to ask is: Why do you have this difficulty? Your extra is perfectly functional and stresses the upper limits of what difficulty this song can bring. And above all, your extra is good. I don't see the point in having a special overkill difficulty that's basically the extra except with all the knobs turned up.

Shiirn wrote:

People will simply take down this map with opinions they've spent ten minutes scrounging off the floor whilst "modding" the map because "DQ for discussion" is the most retarded piece of shit rule I've ever seen. I had literally five motherfucking minutes to formulate a response to Natsu before the disqualification - where the fuck is the sense of "discussion" there? it just seems like people are trying to throw their weight around.

Kynan wrote:

Shiirn wrote:

People will simply take down this map with opinions they've spent ten minutes scrounging off the floor whilst "modding" the map because "DQ for discussion" is the most retarded piece of shit rule I've ever seen. I had literally five motherfucking minutes to formulate a response to Natsu before the disqualification - where the fuck is the sense of "discussion" there? it just seems like people are trying to throw their weight around.

This, especially when it's done by people who can't even play the fucking map. (thanks for the silence shARPII btw).
I don't see what people have against the Confort diff honestly, as Shiro said it's really hard but so well done, just like Tengaku pretty much (actually easier).

1. The diff got added after the disqualify, so why are you complaining the diff is added back!! isn't that what you want?
   
2. We are discussing about the spread between Extra and Comfort, no one is discussing the way the diff is mapped, but the spread.
   
3. We wish to have a smooth process in the requalification, so contribute with something helpfull to the thread, thanks.

Natsu wrote:

I can say the same about people who don't have idea about mapping, can you stop posting useless stuff that no one is discussing?
Read this post again: p/5092848 and try to contribute to move things forward instead of make us lost time by useless drama.

1. The diff got added after the disqualify, so why are you complaining the diff is added back!! isn't that what you want?
   
2. We are discussing about the spread between Extra and Comfort, no one is discussing the way the diff is mapped, but the spread.
   
3. We wish to have a smooth process in the requalification, so contribute with something helpfull to the thread, thanks.

Natsu wrote:

Just bring your input about the ¨spread¨, IDC what HW is ranking, I care what is going on in this mapset, and no we are not talking about the star ranting.

1. Extra contains mildly large spacing with heavy slider-circle-slider jump movement. This is extremely traditional of alternator maps, and sticks to this alternating style for most of the map.
2. Comfort contains very large spacing with very little slider-based leniency or friendliness. The first kiai especially contains massive bounce jumps that encourage single-tapping due to how hard it is to coordinate alternation while making very large, sweeping movements. This kind of combined challenge is what Comfort is based around and what makes it so fun and satisfying to watch and, if you are capable, to play. The second kiai has spacing that is just as large, but since it uses slider-circle-slider jump patterns it is actually much easier and I think any high-tier player can tell you that.
3. Comfort contains very large spacing with circle patterns that I fully understand are very harsh and difficult. There are a lot of horizontal jumps, namely left->right jumps, which are easily the most naturally difficult movements possible for tablet players.
4. The spread is fine. Extra is a standard difficulty cap for alternation. It fits very well as the hardest diff of the set, but Comfort adds a completely different challenge that most high-tier players haven't had (brief shoutout to the original Tengaku, which did something similar but in a different way) any maps do to challenge them in months, if not years: actually needing to coordinate their clicking with their movement. Most of the very high PP maps and the DT farming maps contain only the challenge of having high enough stamina to singletap, say, 250-270bpm 1/2s, while making over-scaled jump movements. Comfort actually ties these jump movements into the same alternator map that extra is.
5. This means that Comfort is ridiculously hard because it contains two entirely different playstyle challenges in one map. Anyone capable of FCing this is easily one of the best players this game has seen, and I want that to be obvious to any observers.

1. 00:08:832 (4) - I'd CTRL+G so it keeps the square pattern intact, creates a slightly nicer pressure onto 00:09:040 (5) - since I don't get right now I feel like 00:08:832 (4) - gets too much unecessary pressure at that part of the song.

1. 00:36:853 (1,1) - Never really liked or understood this, you might have exlpained it before on the thread, but it's too long for me to find :p So I'll appreciate an explanation. (perhaps I'm just a shitty player idk)

1. 00:14:978 (1,2,1) - spacing is a bit unnecessarily huge here imo, especially for an hyper, it's misleading.
2. 00:32:999 (6,2) - I wouldn't do this in a hyper, really confusing.
3. 00:50:811 (4,5,1) - Would appreciate a bit of consistency and increasing the spacing here, since it's really close to the 1/4 spacing you had so far and far from the 1/2 one.
4. 01:16:436 (6,7) - This overlap is not very aesthethic.
5. 01:53:415 (1) - 15% audio like you did at higher diffs. (same for probox's and pishi's diffs.

1. 00:33:520 (2) - Yeah there's beat on the reverses, tail and head, but the slider doesn't really fit imo.. The song does not ask for those reverses.

1. 00:34:978 (1) - Yeah, it's a strange song. But still, this should be snapped to 00:34:874 and not the white tick.
2. 00:59:978 (1) - The hell is going in this section? Some places this rhythm is not mapped, some places it is, and some places you placed a spinnner ;o WHaT's going on?
3. 01:09:978 (1) - Would be much better to not use a spinner or just shorten it to actually start the map with the super intense notes at 01:13:311 and not join awkwardly at 01:14:561 (1) -
4. 01:24:145 (2,1) - Use some other rhythm, first sliderend and second sliderhead are snapped incorrectly, and it's audible while playing.

Avishay wrote:

Okay.

[COMFORT]

1. 00:08:832 (4) - I'd CTRL+G so it keeps the square pattern intact, creates a slightly nicer pressure onto 00:09:040 (5) - since I don't get right now I feel like 00:08:832 (4) - gets too much unecessary pressure at that part of the song. Long list of reasoning aside, this is small enough that there's no real gameplay impact, there's more visual and emphasis impact in this change. So since either way works, I'll go with this one. It also makes the 3-slider pattern symmetrical and rotational, i guess.

[EXTRA]

1. 00:36:853 (1,1) - Never really liked or understood this, you might have exlpained it before on the thread, but it's too long for me to find :p So I'll appreciate an explanation. (perhaps I'm just a shitty player idk) This is a hold on the start of the first slider with another key for the start of the second. I've gotten mostly praise over these two particular sliders, as it's a way to heavily emphasize the background buildup without any movement while still having a very strong burst of speed and energy as the music "starts up again". All 1/8 timing in the map is intended to force the player to alternate. Having it be 1/4 would simply have the player tap their key on it, this has the player forcibly hold down their key. The lack of a visible slider tick causes some irritation, but I really feel this is the best way of combining what i want the player to do with what the player expects.

[HYPER]

1. 00:14:978 (1,2,1) - spacing is a bit unnecessarily huge here imo, especially for an hyper, it's misleading. Moved 2 down.
2. 00:32:999 (6,2) - I wouldn't do this in a hyper, really confusing. Rotated 2,3,4 so that 2 is clearly visible while still keeping the pattern.
3. 00:50:811 (4,5,1) - Would appreciate a bit of consistency and increasing the spacing here, since it's really close to the 1/4 spacing you had so far and far from the 1/2 one. Moved 5.
4. 01:16:436 (6,7) - This overlap is not very aesthethic. made prettier
5. 01:53:415 (1) - 15% audio like you did at higher diffs. (same for probox's and pishi's diffs. agree

[ADVANCED]

1. 00:33:520 (2) - Yeah there's beat on the reverses, tail and head, but the slider doesn't really fit imo.. The song does not ask for those reverses. Not my difficulty, but I can safely say that I disagree here, this is an alternative way of 'following' the music without forcing a normal-level player to actually need to follow the intricacies of this track's rhythms, which get really weird here. It also helpfully polarizes the rhythm so that the following two blue-tick notes feel natural.

Blue Dragon wrote:

edit: nvm there's a 41 page map right above this one

Fort wrote:

the most thing is not a logic is an triplet overmapping + excessive jump on it, this overmapped parts can became a severe problem if you going to push forward this beatmap, this causing a really uncomfortable map which it has only forcing players to do your own patterns without take a look at the music it self.

Fort wrote:

and the gay post is telling about how shit this map is
LOL

Bold means most questionable thing

Comfort:
AR10 makes it really hard AR10 actually makes it much more comfortable for players of this skill level.
00:13:936 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - what the meaning for this 288bpm high jumps if you have small spacing for 00:14:978 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,1) - patterns? is it really better if you put lower spacing on 00:13:936 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - to make that pattern make senses, probably this pattern just sudden death move which can make people really confused about the jumps and the difference of pattern on next patterning circles+sliders I'm putting emphasis on the seven notes originally, they're independent and untied to any other musical part of the map. They've got extremely large spacing, but the jumps are easier to hit than they appear, depending on tablet area. Larger tablet area players will really struggle with the end of this pattern, and later patterns. Better to get that feeling out of the way early on, these 7 notes instantly "set the tone" for the entire map from that point forward.

00:15:395 (3,4,5,6) - this is really confusing about your first combo and transition doest like easy to read, because yeah on 00:15:395 (3,4) - it was following the melody but you suddenly change 00:15:707 (5,6) - pattern to basic beat patterning which is really questionable for your previous combo patterning and i think it's really better if you swap this pattern 00:15:707 (5,6) - or make 3 circles if you want emphasize 00:15:811 (6) - snare sound on here, but i feel like the previous pattern doesnt following kick and snare at all, it follows melody (and since you map 00:07:895 - with melodical pattern it's really great job if you change this) I have no idea what you're trying to make me do here. The combo follows the piano just fine, with 00:15:811 (6) - filling in the bassline so there isn't a bunch of blank space between 5 and the wub of 00:16:020 (1) - . 7:895 is irrelevant because there is no pattern there and it's a simple filler combo that's flowing downwards.

00:16:020 (1,1) - why this should have spam combo? the SV speed almost like same and the rhythm pattern is just only an odd sliders, but i think it will be alright and it will be more fine if you delete that combo This isn't really spam. The new combo is simply to emphasize the wub, and that the slider is going into 1/8 territory. It's, for me, aesthetics.

00:16:228 (1,2) - the most confusing thing i can't get it is this is not a new stanza but why you change your own rhythm pattern and swap it to Kick snare basic pattern? which the most thing is an melodical patterning, 00:16:540 - this beat is skipped by a slider end and it doest make this pattern really easy to read, and yeah that's kinda inconsistant between Patterning and Combo too, 00:16:645 (3) - this circle didn't really affecting on the patterns which players are focusing on the melodical pattern (for now this melodical pattern is really strong since you map like that on intro and what so ever) I simply feel like the spacing between 00:16:228 (1,2) - is much more significant than the similar beat pattern beforehand due to it immediately following a wub. This combo is a connector between the two sliders that play for the one-off wub/synth noises that camellia loves to interject into this track. Readability concerns are hard to pin down at AR18 and 288bpm, but I can safely say I don't find many people missing in these transitional areas.

00:18:415 (7,1,1,2) - the jumping pattern in here is like hard to believe since that one looks so small distance for strong emphasize like in there, there was really strong melodical patterning in here, but yeah once again you skipped that strong beat for just an low kick sound at this music, yup there is in 00:19:040 - which you didn't map that potential beat and you skip that with a 1/2 slider, it makes the rhythm reading decreasing so much when players focusing to hear melody instead of clicking this 00:19:145 (3) - . and the most hard thing is, 00:19:145 (3) - this pattern has hardly stacked on 0 level (i think) which it makes hard reading pattern reading on AR10 for that random kick slider, not so random but the others can feel that so hard to hit The jumping pattern is fine. 7->1 plays fine and after that is another transitional set of combos. This section is focused on the weird-looking wub/synth sliders, with the other combos being transtions between them that follow beat patterns. I'm not going to be able to make every beat have a click - this map would turn into a fucking nightmare of unplayable goo. 00:19:145 (3) - has no problems being visible. You overestimate AR10's effects on readability.

00:22:374 (3,4,1) - another questionable thing in here is like on this pattern which it has focusing on melody (especially on 00:22:686 (1,1,2) - yeah that so strong for a nice high spacing jumps, but yeah why don't you make like that? is it a great opportunity to make good emphasize right? and yeah you skipped good beats again and sacrifice it for just a kick sound, that kind is really hard to believe since this only was an 144bpm map and the melody have 288bpm pattern which it has more stronger to follow the melody instead of following basic beats on this beatmap, try make some priority on mapping for this one. See, the thing is, people link a specific combo and mention all the other combos that are inconsistent with it but then forget to notice that there is structure to the chaos. 00:22:061 (1,2,3,4) - follows the same "melody" as 00:15:395 (3,4,5,6) - , and even 00:19:353 (1,2,3,4,5) - . Helpfully, they're all even the same color, as this pattern happens fairly consistently! In the track, sometimes the melody is strongest, sometimes there's a weird camellia-thing where he puts in something much more powerful that I have to map or I feel like I'm ignoring it. These "melody" following combos are the "default" transition between all of the weird craziness the map is otherwise following, and as a very simple offbeat polarizing set of clicks, it works perfectly fine. Modifications of the "default" transition include 00:24:561 (1,2,3,4,5) - (which replaces the last slider with two notes) and 00:18:728 (1,2,3) - , which sacrifices the click on the end because the bass lasts the entire duration of the slider rather than ending on the middle tick. (The wub, however, still ends at the middle, this is probably why it might look confusing at first glance).

00:27:686 (1,2) - it's really better if you make a arrow slider in here and make a kick sliders on 00:27:895 (1) - . it will be make more senses with 00:28:311 (1) - emphasizing speed, and it's a lot readable too I disagree. I like the current click pattern as it allows the "stream" to end as a full 8 notes, while having the buildup 1/8 buzz slider offer a tiny break for any alternating fingers.

00:28:624 (2,3,4,5,6,1,1,2,3,4) - yeah same as above, the advantage of the melodical mapping is like you can read the patterns easily without thinking twice since this is an high bpm map which needs more reflects than sightreading, the sightreading chance in here is really low, it's only just for TOP rank players can FC this thing (yeah maybe 1-500 people can sightread this and got FCs) which it can be really abnormal if you play this map. Even though the combo is no longer coincidentally yellow, 00:28:728 (3,4,5,6) - is still the "default" transition combo and happens so often that players can easily tell what's happening. Sightreading is, dare I say, largely irrelevant to my concerns for this map as I would be extremely shocked if anyone were to seriously think this map should be fcable on the first play, which is basically what "sightreading" implies. This isn't a PP map that's built on having the same, extremely simple structure as every other PP map so that players can simply enter autopilot and mash keys and make huge jumps to victory. This map actually requires paying attention and understanding the melody. A player who FCs this map would probably be able to play the entire track in their head, from start to finish, from memory. Most maps, people only ever remember the chorus and maybe a few stanzas of the rest of the track. Routing is different.

00:30:811 (3,1) - this is about combo which really questionable why you prefer 00:31:228 (1) - as a combo than 00:30:811 (3) - ?, the melodical and some unique sounds really good for 00:30:811 (3) - new combo, and the 00:31:228 (1) - seems didnt feel like it blending with a melody which that circle was a low melody sound (even weaker than 00:31:124 (4) -) and looks like that was a failed combo patterning to executing 00:31:228 (1,2,3,4) - so well (it has massive melodical thing there and it's really offbeats (especially on 00:31:332 (2,3) - + a zero stacking make it really worse to sightread or pattern reading)
well yeah, you know what should you do for that, follow melody will become better and more focused on emphasizing 1 map) I actually agree that (3) should probably have the new combo, for it to be consistent with 00:17:061 (1,2,1) - . The rest of this I have no idea what you're going on about, I don't understand what you're trying to say.

00:32:478 (4,5,6,7,1,2) - this pattern is lot more confusing, which one did you follow? are you following both? i think this is not really good for a high BPM map like this which this was an reading error between this patterns 00:32:895 (1,2,3,4) -, 00:32:478 (4) - this slider probably needs to be changed to circles if you didnt want this happen) Ah, but see, 00:32:895 (1,2,3,4) - is, again, that "default" melody combo. 4's modification is that it is a full 1/2 slider rather than 1/4 to facilitate (or polarize, if you want to be charles) the following offbeat jump pairs. 00:32:061 (1,2,3,4) - is also the "default" combo and the entire point is that it happens twice, with a 1/6 grind between them, which is why they overlap eachother as well.

00:33:311 (4,1) - really questionable thing, why you didnt new combo this ending stanza and why did you NC this nonsensational circle 00:33:624 (1) - ? and the most awkward thing in here is like why you map a crazy jumps in such a weak musical rhythm (especially for 00:33:624 (1,2,3) - which it has really blank beats and that one is highly suggested to be changed to a slider). the thing makes really confusing when you skipped this Kick sound 00:33:520 - to a slider end which makes this is really questionable patterning type for all people in here, this is exactly like 00:33:520 - is deserving a clickable object, makes it comfort and makes your patterning more readable The new combo is there because there's no reason to have the new combo on 4, the combo would be too long otherwise, and it'd be really weird to have new combos mid-jumps. Originally, the 1,2,3,4,5,6 was 1,2,1,2,1,2, but that proved very weird to see. I wish I could keep it as 1,2,1,2,1,2, but when a BN says change it or they won't push it forward, you're put in a weird spot, aren't you, Fort? The reason the slider ends on a "kick" or "clickable object" is to allow the following offbeat jumps to even be possible - having a click there would depolarize the entire thing and force it to be a singletap pattern. I assure you, changing 00:33:311 (4,1) - to a 1/4 slider and 2 circles would make this pattern almost impossible to play, rather than simply difficult.

00:36:540 (1,1) - the most weird thing i see, the SV change and the rhythm choice is really questionable, because in 00:36:853 - has really big melodical starter to make the 00:37:061 (1) - can be more readable, in this case you're too much pressure player to forcing players get that this sudden SV change without any warning. I don't see the problem here. It's a slow slider with a kink on a beat. This happens literally all the time in many maps. The SV change isn't all that sudden. The ticks clearly slow the slider is slower, the shape is much different than any other slider before it, which makes the player give it a closer look and see the ticks. This happens, yes, at AR10 and is very reliable. Players have a full half a second to notice the ticks, and it happens every single time, without fail.

00:39:145 (1,2,3) - it will be better if you put a high jumping pattern for this emphasizing, the music is really needs it and looks like the flow on slider and the distance snapping is really harsh, and the high jump spacing in there makes this pattern more effective for an antijump + ascension pattern I feel like the pattern is more important than the spacing here. As I'm sure you're aware, jumping between sliders has massive leniencies that allow them to be thrown across the screen from eachother without much care. Heck, I was one of the first people to realize that back in 2011. Charles and I threw in a massive slider jump in Solar and found that it played perfectly fine.

Thus, conversely, any emphasis made by using distance between two sliders isn't as strong as it looks. Here, I decided that having a coherent pattern to the clicks was more faithful to the music rather than simply spacing them out.

00:44:301 (2) - this is not really good as you expected before you create this, think about this one, when you like going to a slow part and then you deal with that sudden overmapped 288bpm stream how'd you feel?, yup that's why you need to remove that stream, and don't make any sudden high density pattern at this part, 1/6 stream is enough for this part This fits the music and isn't overmapped. Weren't you just complaining earlier that I was ignoring beats? :^) But for real, considering how the note is between two sliders that are probably going to be singletapped anyway, this kind of combo is fine as long as the player knows it's there - which they will, because they're not playing this map once, got it? because "slider->circle->slider Z->X-Z" is probably the most basic and easy click combo in existence. I had a 1/8 in Akasagarbha, a 192bpm map, just like this, that was quite good. ( 01:07:901 (2,3,4) - of shiirn's extra in Daxmasterix's map, if you want to see.)

00:52:686 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - this jump pattern is not easy to read, it is not easy to read. trust me, the patterning on 00:51:853 (1,2,3,4,5) - makes this circle bang shot is like OMG, and the stacking makes it worse to read on AR10, and there is no clue that you can read it with a follow point, yeah this jump even can't be readed so easily with follow point on the map, and 00:53:207 (6,1) - the flow direction on here is make the next pattern aim is worse, like how'd you bursting jump like this 00:53:624 (2,3,4,1,2,3) - ? the back patterning like this kinda makes a big mistakes on the map Follow points aren't necessary for reading. Like I've said a few times here, sightreading isn't an issue I'm going to work on to make perfect because I don't expect this track to be played all of once, or even a dozen times. An FC on this map will take at least 80 tries. I'd be astonished if anyone manages it with under 100, simply because the rhythms are that weird. Since they're going to be playing the map that many times anyway, concerns over sightreadability on the first play should be taken with a grain of salt. With that in mind, this is a fairly simple back-and-forth scaling spacing pattern. Nothing all that weird or unique about it. That entire section can basically be called a "back and forth" section.

00:56:020 (3,4,5) - the thing s really confusing again, and about emphasizing the pattern this kinda awkward when you put a high jump pattern at exactly on weak musical rhythm, how suppose this jump can work? well yeah, less distance can make flow really better and good Spacing between the sliders doesn't matter all that much, especially when vertical. If anything, I'm personally more concerned about the placement of 2, but since you didn't mention it I assume you thought it was fine.

00:58:207 (1) - seems you put wrong stacking, it looks neater if you stack with slider tail + confusion with zero stack reduced I actually kind of like how the last note that finally escapes the "spinning" sliders starts on the start of the slider rather than the end. Gameplay-wise, there's practically no difference, Visually, you can see this slider much more clearly if it comes out of the start rather than the end. I say it's better for it to be visible rather than continue the same pattern simply because it's the same pattern.

01:01:332 (1,2) - it's really better if you not follow the scratch sound yet, please follow finish beat on there first so you can make a nice scratch patterning on 01:01:645 (3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) - looks really bettern and more confident I disagree. I don't know if I actually need to explain my reasoning here as this is purely personal taste related.

01:04:874 (1) - same problem with my previous thing, and yeah i have same thing in here too 01:07:999 (5,6) - ^ tbh

the kiai is most brutal and this is really not a logical thing if you make a difference between Extra and Comfort diff
the most thing is not a logic is an triplet overmapping + excessive jump on it, this overmapped parts can became a severe problem if you going to push forward this beatmap, this causing a really uncomfortable map which it has only forcing players to do your own patterns without take a look at the music it self. hahahaha hearing fort say that makes my day

like on
01:18:520 (1,2,3,4) - the kiai parts it's purely an 1/4 not 1/8, and with the jump flow like that im not sure people can do a good execution for that pattern If you listen closely, there actually is a 1/8 triplet in the music.

01:18:520 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - the density of this pattern will became not good if you put this thing, it's just a spammed 1/8 triplets, the only you can do is remove them all and change to spaced circle or create a jump 1/4 sliders (if you keep this problem in your mind, 01:19:561 (6,7,1) - this pattern will be a bad anti jump for emphasizing a little kiai thingy They're not spammed - there's two - and they're not overmapped.

01:21:645 (1,2,3) - the most weird rhythm density emphasize, when you decide to skip this very strong melody 01:21:853 - and go overmapped with the black pattern like 01:21:905 (2,3) - and you put crazy hell anti flow pattern on 01:22:270 (5,6,1,2,3) - with overmapping too, please fix this flow direction especially for 01:22:374 (6) - , this is really excessive and too much pressure on 288bpm map, remember 288bpm isn't easy to map with your own style you need to learn how people playing too Again, still not overmapped. The click patterns are fine. Flow is a tool for making boring maps so utterly boring that people zone out while playing them and misinterpret that as "fun". The spacing and movement are sharp for a reason.

01:23:311 (5,1) - basically this is was a simple pattern but there was a mistake on your patterning when you skip 01:23:936 - as a strong rhythm and you put a sudden pattern like that, that can be awkward. like always you need to put a new combo in 01:23:311 (5) -, that's a warning for players which can read a new pattern, and yeah for 01:23:936 - you should map that one because you put a 1/8 pattern on 01:23:311 (5) - and it wasn't nice if you skip that part and change it to slider end. Uhm, no mistake was made. It's a slider that ends on a beat because I want the player to be ready for the 1/8 triple after it - which is extremely apparent. I'm not putting a new combo on 5 because of the slider velocity change because i don't need to. Weird shape -> look at ticks, bam, slider velocity taken care of, without ruining the pattern of the combo.

01:25:395 (1,2,3,4,5) - honestly i can't get what you mean in here, the rhythm change is not readable for that stanza since you follow synth before, it will be better if you put pattern like this

01:28:103 (3,4) - again, why you did this pattern always, you can test it with yourself? that flow is like a pain in 288bpm if you can feel it Not having a click on a big white tick is not an offense to God, it's simply good business.

01:30:915 (5,6,7) - THIS PATTERN IS REALLY OFF AND DOESN'T FOLLOW ANYTHING, even the kick is really off on there, why BNs bubbling this so fast and didn't think about this pattern before? please pay attention to the rhythm you choose for this, and yeas that pattern can be better if you follow the melody like same as you following a melody on 1st kiai you did This follows the offbeat synth. NOT THE VOCALS because the vocals have less power here. Also, fuck off with your BN comment.

01:29:978 (1,2,3) - PLEASE THIS IS 1/6 OR EXCATLY LIKE THIS http://puu.sh/oMQq3/dc658349b4.png, there is now way you can pass ranked criteria with a wrong overmapped thing, that must be fixed The voice actually does follow 1/8 here, then cascades into 1/6 and weirder timing signatures. Since I don't want to have a note that goes from white tick to yellow tick to brown tick (seriously, 18 to 1/6?) I put the slider on the blue tick and let the rest of the voice carry on. This is the only way to make this voice trill mappable and I really want the voice mapped here.

01:31:540 (1) - keep in your mind you need to keep your melodical things in here, make this 1/4, after that put circle on 01:31:749 - This follows both the vocals AND the bass, and is one of the few moments where both are in harmony, so you'd best bet your ass I'm gonna follow them for the entire 1/2.

01:31:853 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - ambigous pattern which has 2 different beat snap in here, it's your choice want to choose 1/6 or 1/4, but in this case the jumps is really excessive and the musical pattern is not really supporting for jump like this (yeah right, i'd better do some lower spacing or creating a 1/4 slider to follow synth more better and put a high distance circle jump at 01:32:478 (1,2,3) -, that's is definitely will become better that your pattern now) Because of the weird ass 1/6 and 1/8 in this section, I stuck to a technique you're extremely familiar with - ignoring the more background elements and mapping the bassline. It helps that a small jump section also fits here!

the rest looks okay, and the ending is like a copy pasta with intro but whatever maybe it just me that.... was intended. lol

Shiro wrote:

Fort accurately describes his maps in one sentence.

Shiro wrote:

Fort wrote:

the most thing is not a logic is an triplet overmapping + excessive jump on it, this overmapped parts can became a severe problem if you going to push forward this beatmap, this causing a really uncomfortable map which it has only forcing players to do your own patterns without take a look at the music it self.

Fort accurately describes his maps in one sentence.