Rebubbled per mapper's request. Let's give it another chance.Shiirn wrote:
i like to pretend that salt is an healthy part of every diet
forum
Camellia - Routing
posted
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531
tfw no comfort
at least its finally happening, bless
at least its finally happening, bless
I denied a bunch of kudos (that some BN gave for unknown reasons), let me know if I denied a legit one.
Hmm, alright, lets try this again.
We polished up a lot of patterns/rhythms on Extra before pushing this forward.
Not gonna bother posting logs, you can if you want Shiirn. There's a lot of stuff that's not specifically related to improving the map and im too lazy to edit those out lol.
We polished up a lot of patterns/rhythms on Extra before pushing this forward.
Not gonna bother posting logs, you can if you want Shiirn. There's a lot of stuff that's not specifically related to improving the map and im too lazy to edit those out lol.
Topic Starter
I think I kinda said too much in there anyway. Too much to render public, if only for my own dignity.
i saw this being qualified and im like YEAH WE DID IT AMERICA BEST MAP QUALIFIED
slightly depressed that the hardest diff got cut but whatev
slightly depressed that the hardest diff got cut but whatev
Extra :
01:42:895 (1,2) - 01:43:520 (1,2) - These are emphasized just as same do you really believe these should be emphasized as the same and you think these are both strong. I believe second one isn't strong as the first one making that flows breaking as same on both isn't really good.
01:28:415 (1) - the thing you followed with this slider 01:28:624 - is actually also here too, why leave empty
01:50:082 (1,2,3) - I don't know while what i am going to say is subjective, breaking flows this much on this sounds are way too much for me i don't think they are so strong to be like others.
00:22:061 (2,3) - 00:15:395 (3,4) - I believe these are similar sounds on the song but the spacing is really different why is that
00:18:728 (3,4) - I totally don't agree with this spacing this one is calmer than others but spaced this much as same as others not good.
00:34:561 (3,4) - This could be high spaced like 00:29:561 (2,3) - and actually 00:34:561 (3,4) - is stronger than this too.
01:29:249 (4,5) - Not strong enough to flow break like this much again.
00:47:061 (4,5) - 00:50:395 (3,4) - aren't these similar some sort of spacing again different and way too much on first
I don't know check if you agree or not most of them is subjective but generally this diff's flows are hell for me and does not plays good for me at all.
01:42:895 (1,2) - 01:43:520 (1,2) - These are emphasized just as same do you really believe these should be emphasized as the same and you think these are both strong. I believe second one isn't strong as the first one making that flows breaking as same on both isn't really good.
01:28:415 (1) - the thing you followed with this slider 01:28:624 - is actually also here too, why leave empty
01:50:082 (1,2,3) - I don't know while what i am going to say is subjective, breaking flows this much on this sounds are way too much for me i don't think they are so strong to be like others.
00:22:061 (2,3) - 00:15:395 (3,4) - I believe these are similar sounds on the song but the spacing is really different why is that
00:18:728 (3,4) - I totally don't agree with this spacing this one is calmer than others but spaced this much as same as others not good.
00:34:561 (3,4) - This could be high spaced like 00:29:561 (2,3) - and actually 00:34:561 (3,4) - is stronger than this too.
01:29:249 (4,5) - Not strong enough to flow break like this much again.
00:47:061 (4,5) - 00:50:395 (3,4) - aren't these similar some sort of spacing again different and way too much on first
I don't know check if you agree or not most of them is subjective but generally this diff's flows are hell for me and does not plays good for me at all.
Extra :
00:26:540 (2,3) - no-no this is the right one i guess
Others are just suggestions:
00:31:332 (3,4) - would help keep strong beats clickable
00:32:165 (2,3) - i'd say
There was more but i can't post all of them right now, if there will be a need in continuing this mod poke me via pm or something
00:26:540 (2,3) - no-no this is the right one i guess
Others are just suggestions:
00:31:332 (3,4) - would help keep strong beats clickable
00:32:165 (2,3) - i'd say
There was more but i can't post all of them right now, if there will be a need in continuing this mod poke me via pm or something
Topic Starter
If you only play this map once, don't bother suggesting anything. As alien as it sounds, Routing is meant to be played multiple times to get a feel for how the music works. The map follows from the music. My maps are always hard to read because of this. If you want 3-retry-fcs, you're playing maps from the wrong mapper.-Kanzaki wrote:
Extra :
01:42:895 (1,2) - 01:43:520 (1,2) - These are emphasized just as same do you really believe these should be emphasized as the same and you think these are both strong. I believe second one isn't strong as the first one making that flows breaking as same on both isn't really good. They're slightly different and that's good enough for me.
01:28:415 (1) - the thing you followed with this slider 01:28:624 - is actually also here too, why leave empty Because the voice is a fucking nightmare to time and it's better to leave empty so it's not confusing as hell.
01:50:082 (1,2,3) - I don't know while what i am going to say is subjective, breaking flows this much on this sounds are way too much for me i don't think they are so strong to be like others. Flow doesn't matter here.
00:22:061 (2,3) - 00:15:395 (3,4) - I believe these are similar sounds on the song but the spacing is really different why is that The spacing is like, maybe a dozen pixels different and even the movements are similar....?
00:18:728 (3,4) - I totally don't agree with this spacing this one is calmer than others but spaced this much as same as others not good. Can you even play this difficulty? 1/4 spacing at 144 bpm between circles and sliders is actually extremely easy. I think you played it like once.
00:34:561 (3,4) - This could be high spaced like 00:29:561 (2,3) - and actually 00:34:561 (3,4) - is stronger than this too. The entire point is that the sharp movement is on 2,3. After that, 4 is simply ending the pattern, the spacing being low is irrelevant.
01:29:249 (4,5) - Not strong enough to flow break like this much again. Any suggestions regarding "flow" will be discarded. I intentionally break flow, and if you disagree with how I break flow, just call me a shitty mapper.
00:47:061 (4,5) - 00:50:395 (3,4) - aren't these similar some sort of spacing again different and way too much on first 50:395 has a much harder 1/4 roll after it that is the focus of the pattern. 47:061 focuses on the 1/6th roll and emphasizes that.
I don't know check if you agree or not most of them is subjective but generally this diff's flows are hell for me and does not plays good for me at all. That's just unfortunate then. I don't want to channel hollow wings here but if it plays badly for you, good. Not everyone is capable of playing maps intentionally made to bring challenges other than "1/2 jumps" and that's completely fine.
EvilElvis wrote:
Extra :
00:26:540 (2,3) - no-no this is the right one i guess 00:26:645 (3) - is actually representing the background 1/4 tremble. It plays fine.
Others are just suggestions:
00:31:332 (3,4) - would help keep strong beats clickable Strong beats being clickable is irrelevant. These two sliders are very simple to hit and are meant to be that way. Literally doubling the number of clicks to make sure that the strong beats "get their due" would make the experience completely different.
00:32:165 (2,3) - i'd say I disagree. I'm okay with how the current click patterns are.
There was more but i can't post all of them right now, if there will be a need in continuing this mod poke me via pm or something
In the interest of saving everyone's time, especially helpful passerby modders, let me say this:
Anything that is not directly unrankable and can be classified as "subjective" or "issues with consistency" will be subsequently denied.
Please don't waste my or your time as I have gone over every inch of this map and while I don't believe it is perfect nor that it reaches my vision of what this map can be, it is viable enough for the purposes of ranking. Anything that can be mentioned regarding consistency is inconsistent for a reason. You may not like the reason, but unless you are a QAT specifically going to DQ the map because you disagree with me, we're going to have to live with said disagreement staining our lives forevermore.
If you're disappointed in me as a mapper or you don't like this map: I don't care. This map started off as a simple happy, vibrant, barely contained explosion of energy, and now it's just a pile of conflicting opinions from people I barely respect, much less like, who forced themselves onto the map as if it were their civic duty to make me "see the light" and "accept consistency".
Routing, as are most of my maps, was about providing an experience to the player. The "issues" with consistency were intentional and brought to the player a sense of slight confusion, happy-go-lucky energy, and, if I did things right, a barely contained sense of panic while maintaining a full combo. This applies to all the difficulties (Well, maybe just Hyper and above, as that kind of experience isn't possible to give Normal level players), not just Comfort, and while a lot of my vision has been lost underneath a bunch of "mapping consistency experts" analyzing every object of my map, I've tried to make this map as palatable as possible for this poor modern community that is so obsessed with everything being structured and robotic because they're used to maps designed to give pp rather than designed to be fun.
Everyone has fun in different ways, and my maps are hopefully different enough to provide a variety of experiences to where an individual would find at least some of my maps very fun. If their tastes don't have a fit among my maps, then that's just unfortunate because they probably genuinely enjoy farming tvsize dnb maps to raise a number on their profile page.
Shiirn wrote:
In the interest of saving everyone's time, especially helpful passerby modders, let me say this:
Anything that is not directly unrankable and can be classified as "subjective" or "issues with consistency" will be subsequently denied.
Please don't waste my or your time as I have gone over every inch of this map and while I don't believe it is perfect nor that it reaches my vision of what this map can be, it is viable enough for the purposes of ranking. Anything that can be mentioned regarding consistency is inconsistent for a reason. You may not like the reason, but unless you are a QAT specifically going to DQ the map because you disagree with me, we're going to have to live with said disagreement staining our lives forevermore.
If you're disappointed in me as a mapper or you don't like this map: I don't care. This map started off as a simple happy, vibrant, barely contained explosion of energy, and now it's just a pile of conflicting opinions from people I barely respect, much less like, who forced themselves onto the map as if it were their civic duty to make me "see the light" and "accept consistency".
Man don't discourage modders to take a look at your map in qualify category wdf, People are supposed to do mods like that, even if subjetive or anything, if there are improvement for the map they should be taked, the community is the one that report maps to QATs. Also take a look a this too for more information:
p/5068249
Topic Starter
People can look all they want. But I'm very, very, very tired of this map and I am outright scared of the prospect of needing to spend a week defending every object of this map again and if I can lighten the load by cutting off certain forms of modding that will be a waste of time for the modder and nothing but stress for me, I will try to do so.
I think you and I both know that there are going to be many people unhappy with this map. I can safely say that I don't care. I know plenty of people who support the map. I'd much rather have a map with polarized opinions rather than a boring, unobtrusive pile of notes nobody cares about.
And you know I'm up to date with politics.
For what it's worth, if a QAT member says "Fix X Y and Z these are unrankable to me" I'll do it in a heartbeat as long as they requalify the map afterwards. You guys can do whatever the hell you want to the map now. It's not my map anymore. I've tried to keep this map in my original vision and it's apparent that I've not made the map as palatable as possible for people who disagree with my mapping concepts. If I need to directly change half the map to satisfy them (if, and only if, they are willing to push the map back into the ranking process and they're not just slinging opinions from on high, because it's seriously offensive to have a map DQ'd and then receive no aid whatsoever to bring it back), I will gladly do so. Again, it's not my map anymore. It's the "consistency brigade"'s.
I think you and I both know that there are going to be many people unhappy with this map. I can safely say that I don't care. I know plenty of people who support the map. I'd much rather have a map with polarized opinions rather than a boring, unobtrusive pile of notes nobody cares about.
And you know I'm up to date with politics.
For what it's worth, if a QAT member says "Fix X Y and Z these are unrankable to me" I'll do it in a heartbeat as long as they requalify the map afterwards. You guys can do whatever the hell you want to the map now. It's not my map anymore. I've tried to keep this map in my original vision and it's apparent that I've not made the map as palatable as possible for people who disagree with my mapping concepts. If I need to directly change half the map to satisfy them (if, and only if, they are willing to push the map back into the ranking process and they're not just slinging opinions from on high, because it's seriously offensive to have a map DQ'd and then receive no aid whatsoever to bring it back), I will gladly do so. Again, it's not my map anymore. It's the "consistency brigade"'s.
I can pass with HR if you want. I am just saying your style has bad flows and technically plays bad thats all, but this is just a comment ignore that, i showed you valid stuff on your map where you did it on somewheres that you didn't on other same parts.
But you are telling me that flow doesn't matter? You emphasize stuff with flow breaks, you do stuff when you flow break.
If you only play this map once, don't bother suggesting anything. As alien as it sounds, Routing is meant to be played multiple times to get a feel for how the music works. The map follows from the music. My maps are always hard to read because of this. If you want 3-retry-fcs, you're playing maps from the wrong mapper. It is not hard to read at all.
In the interest of saving everyone's time, especially helpful passerby modders, let me say this:
Anything that is not directly unrankable and can be classified as "subjective" or "issues with consistency" will be subsequently denied. Yea really? Quality also something subjective too for me bt as you can see it is something for real on mapping and ranking process.
Please don't waste my or your time as I have gone over every inch of this map and while I don't believe it is perfect nor that it reaches my vision of what this map can be, it is viable enough for the purposes of ranking. Anything that can be mentioned regarding consistency is inconsistent for a reason. You may not like the reason, but unless you are a QAT specifically going to DQ the map because you disagree with me, we're going to have to live with said disagreement staining our lives forevermore.
If you're disappointed in me as a mapper or you don't like this map: I don't care. This map started off as a simple happy, vibrant, barely contained explosion of energy, and now it's just a pile of conflicting opinions from people I barely respect, much less like, who forced themselves onto the map as if it were their civic duty to make me "see the light" and "accept consistency".
Routing, as are most of my maps, was about providing an experience to the player. The "issues" with consistency were intentional and brought to the player a sense of slight confusion, happy-go-lucky energy, and, if I did things right, a barely contained sense of panic while maintaining a full combo. This applies to all the difficulties (Well, maybe just Hyper and above, as that kind of experience isn't possible to give Normal level players), not just Comfort, and while a lot of my vision has been lost underneath a bunch of "mapping consistency experts" analyzing every object of my map, I've tried to make this map as palatable as possible for this poor modern community that is so obsessed with everything being structured and robotic because they're used to maps designed to give pp rather than designed to be fun.
Everyone has fun in different ways, and my maps are hopefully different enough to provide a variety of experiences to where an individual would find at least some of my maps very fun. If their tastes don't have a fit among my maps, then that's just unfortunate because they probably genuinely enjoy farming tvsize dnb maps to raise a number on their profile page.[/quote]
''Can you even play this difficulty? 1/4 spacing at 144 bpm between circles and sliders is actually extremely easy. I think you played it like once.''
I am asking you why is it same as the others
I didn't mod this because it was too hard to play at least not for me but your reasonings are like , ''its my style'' or ''i dont think you cant even play it'' are not valid. And you are rude as fuck mate as you can see what natsu said its a thing now. If community doesn't checks the qualified maps everything can be ranked now if nobody checked it.
But you are telling me that flow doesn't matter? You emphasize stuff with flow breaks, you do stuff when you flow break.
:D:D Yea its you that you cant play your own map. I always say if you cant play your map you shouldn't expect something good, there are some people can do it but not so many people.Shiirn wrote:
Extra :
01:42:895 (1,2) - 01:43:520 (1,2) - These are emphasized just as same do you really believe these should be emphasized as the same and you think these are both strong. I believe second one isn't strong as the first one making that flows breaking as same on both isn't really good. They're slightly different and that's good enough for me.
01:28:415 (1) - the thing you followed with this slider 01:28:624 - is actually also here too, why leave empty Because the voice is a fucking nightmare to time and it's better to leave empty so it's not confusing as hell.
01:50:082 (1,2,3) - I don't know while what i am going to say is subjective, breaking flows this much on this sounds are way too much for me i don't think they are so strong to be like others. Flow doesn't matter here. How flow doesn't matter on anywhere anyway. You are adding a feeling with that flow and it makes player get excited on here. But you say it doesn't matter
00:22:061 (2,3) - 00:15:395 (3,4) - I believe these are similar sounds on the song but the spacing is really different why is that The spacing is like, maybe a dozen pixels different and even the movements are similar....? It is not similar difficulty
00:18:728 (3,4) - I totally don't agree with this spacing this one is calmer than others but spaced this much as same as others not good. Can you even play this difficulty? 1/4 spacing at 144 bpm between circles and sliders is actually extremely easy. I think you played it like once. I am asking you why did you map this same as others while it is calmer in song. You are telling me it is also easy to play like others???
00:34:561 (3,4) - This could be high spaced like 00:29:561 (2,3) - and actually 00:34:561 (3,4) - is stronger than this too. The entire point is that the sharp movement is on 2,3. After that, 4 is simply ending the pattern, the spacing being low is irrelevant.
01:29:249 (4,5) - Not strong enough to flow break like this much again. Any suggestions regarding "flow" will be discarded. I intentionally break flow, and if you disagree with how I break flow, just call me a shitty mapper. Yea i will make screen jumps on calmest parts of the song too.
00:47:061 (4,5) - 00:50:395 (3,4) - aren't these similar some sort of spacing again different and way too much on first 50:395 has a much harder 1/4 roll after it that is the focus of the pattern. 47:061 focuses on the 1/6th roll and emphasizes that.
I don't know check if you agree or not most of them is subjective but generally this diff's flows are hell for me and does not plays good for me at all. That's just unfortunate then. I don't want to channel hollow wings here but if it plays badly for you, good. Not everyone is capable of playing maps intentionally made to bring challenges other than "1/2 jumps" and that's completely fine.
If you only play this map once, don't bother suggesting anything. As alien as it sounds, Routing is meant to be played multiple times to get a feel for how the music works. The map follows from the music. My maps are always hard to read because of this. If you want 3-retry-fcs, you're playing maps from the wrong mapper. It is not hard to read at all.
In the interest of saving everyone's time, especially helpful passerby modders, let me say this:
Anything that is not directly unrankable and can be classified as "subjective" or "issues with consistency" will be subsequently denied. Yea really? Quality also something subjective too for me bt as you can see it is something for real on mapping and ranking process.
Please don't waste my or your time as I have gone over every inch of this map and while I don't believe it is perfect nor that it reaches my vision of what this map can be, it is viable enough for the purposes of ranking. Anything that can be mentioned regarding consistency is inconsistent for a reason. You may not like the reason, but unless you are a QAT specifically going to DQ the map because you disagree with me, we're going to have to live with said disagreement staining our lives forevermore.
If you're disappointed in me as a mapper or you don't like this map: I don't care. This map started off as a simple happy, vibrant, barely contained explosion of energy, and now it's just a pile of conflicting opinions from people I barely respect, much less like, who forced themselves onto the map as if it were their civic duty to make me "see the light" and "accept consistency".
Routing, as are most of my maps, was about providing an experience to the player. The "issues" with consistency were intentional and brought to the player a sense of slight confusion, happy-go-lucky energy, and, if I did things right, a barely contained sense of panic while maintaining a full combo. This applies to all the difficulties (Well, maybe just Hyper and above, as that kind of experience isn't possible to give Normal level players), not just Comfort, and while a lot of my vision has been lost underneath a bunch of "mapping consistency experts" analyzing every object of my map, I've tried to make this map as palatable as possible for this poor modern community that is so obsessed with everything being structured and robotic because they're used to maps designed to give pp rather than designed to be fun.
Everyone has fun in different ways, and my maps are hopefully different enough to provide a variety of experiences to where an individual would find at least some of my maps very fun. If their tastes don't have a fit among my maps, then that's just unfortunate because they probably genuinely enjoy farming tvsize dnb maps to raise a number on their profile page.[/quote]
''Can you even play this difficulty? 1/4 spacing at 144 bpm between circles and sliders is actually extremely easy. I think you played it like once.''
I am asking you why is it same as the others
I didn't mod this because it was too hard to play at least not for me but your reasonings are like , ''its my style'' or ''i dont think you cant even play it'' are not valid. And you are rude as fuck mate as you can see what natsu said its a thing now. If community doesn't checks the qualified maps everything can be ranked now if nobody checked it.
Topic Starter
I was not saying I will do what a QAT asks because it's their job, but because QAT are the only people I trust to have at least a basic understanding of mapping beyond that of people who are randomly modding maps with concepts a few years beyond their understanding. (I am not pointing a finger at kanzaki, but namely the previous DQ as well and i'm sure there are people in the future who will mod this with little to no mapping experience if it doesn't get DQ'd in like ten minutes by Fycho)
This used to be my map. But by putting the opinions of everyone else over mine, this is what you end up with.
My point regarding flow and consistency is that I am bringing my own vision of what this music should be represented as. If you disagree, we're going to disagree. If it's bad enough that the community (and by that mean the vocal minority because when you involve the community it is always the loudest voices that get the attention, not necessarily the highest volume of people) wants it to never ever be ranked because it's unacceptable to have a map that is completely different then so be it - I'll led this map grave. Ongaku has given me his blessing that if ranking this becomes to much of a stressor, to give up.
And that's what it boils down to. People wanting me to give up, rather than actually make the map better. They want it better in their own opinion, fuck my feelings.
This used to be my map. But by putting the opinions of everyone else over mine, this is what you end up with.
My point regarding flow and consistency is that I am bringing my own vision of what this music should be represented as. If you disagree, we're going to disagree. If it's bad enough that the community (and by that mean the vocal minority because when you involve the community it is always the loudest voices that get the attention, not necessarily the highest volume of people) wants it to never ever be ranked because it's unacceptable to have a map that is completely different then so be it - I'll led this map grave. Ongaku has given me his blessing that if ranking this becomes to much of a stressor, to give up.
And that's what it boils down to. People wanting me to give up, rather than actually make the map better. They want it better in their own opinion, fuck my feelings.
It wasn't even an usual mod. I am asking about your objects but you can't answer their reasons. Which leads to they are meant to be random placed objects?
Sadly, you have to make an agreement with the community, not with the QAT. They won't judge your map anymore. So better put the effort to convince people raising concerns here that this creation is fine as it is or do not try to get it Ranked.
gonna bring my opinions on this as well:
- 00:26:540 (2,3) - is pretty obvious that your rhythm is following the song in the wrong way, I checked your reply to Elvis mod and still don't make much sense, the 1/4 thing already started before that, following the active beats is what will be more intuitive, actually every suggestion from Elvis is not subjetive o.o, but really objetive talking about correct rhythm ofc.
- 00:27:895 (1,1,1,1) - spamming combos looks nice? because the stream is pretty much the smae 1/4 the only thing that changes is that is stacked, so the only NC that you need is 00:27:895 (1) -
- 00:57:999 (1) - 01:01:332 (1,2) - 01:04:665 (1) - 01:07:999 (1) - why are these mapped in different way ? since is the same music at both places, unless your rhythm is inconsistent on purpose, I don't see any other reason to do this. Just make 01:01:332 (1,2) - like the other ones.
- 01:09:665 - sounds super weird that you are ignoring this loud beat :l
- 01:42:895 (1,2) - Why are you doing the manual stack at this kind of patterns now, when you didn't before for example 00:02:895 (1,2) - , looks inconsistent and not something that we gonna expect from an experienced mapper, specially whe multiple people are telling you to be more consistent with this map.
- Also there are a bunch of inconsistencies, overall the design is poor made IMO, and there are a bunch of blankets off, I mean if your archive is to make rankable maps then is fine, but I really think you could do alot better than this, specially with tiny stuff like blankets to important stuff as is the rhythm of the song >:
- 00:08:311 (1,2) - 1,0 spacing, but 01:06:645 (1,2) - 1,10 here, seems there is a small error
- 01:40:811 (1,1,2) - here too
Topic Starter
If my opinions are outright rejected regardless of what they are, I don't see the point. It's bothersome and tiresome to need to explain every single object's existence and what I intend to bring about by using it that way and that i need to do it multiple times is just stressful as hell.
Maybe moddingv2 will improve this since the evidence that I explained things before would be much more easily viewable. But it doesn't stop people from disagreeing just because they disagree. Does that automatically make me wrong? Why is the entire burden of proof on the mapper? That's horrifically stressful.
Maybe moddingv2 will improve this since the evidence that I explained things before would be much more easily viewable. But it doesn't stop people from disagreeing just because they disagree. Does that automatically make me wrong? Why is the entire burden of proof on the mapper? That's horrifically stressful.
Report about the map looks valid, please achieve a consensus with the community.
Topic Starter
Natsu wrote:
gonna bring my opinions on this as well:anyways gl with this
- 00:26:540 (2,3) - is pretty obvious that your rhythm is following the song in the wrong way, I checked your reply to Elvis mod and still don't make much sense, the 1/4 thing already started before that, following the active beats is what will be more intuitive, actually every suggestion from Elvis is not subjetive o.o, but really objetive talking about correct rhythm ofc. The first click is following the same pattern as the notes before it. The 1/2 after it is following the fairly subtle 1/8 triple starting 00:26:645 - and ending 00:26:749 - and at the end of the slider. Because it'd be incredibly confusing and hard to play such a combination of clicks, it's a simple slider instead.
- 00:27:895 (1,1,1,1) - spamming combos looks nice? because the stream is pretty much the smae 1/4 the only thing that changes is that is stacked, so the only NC that you need is 00:27:895 (1) - This NC was purely for aesthetic reasons and for further emphasizing what made these four beats different. If it's directly unrankable, go call a QAT.
- 00:57:999 (1) - 01:01:332 (1,2) - 01:04:665 (1) - 01:07:999 (1) - why are these mapped in different way ? since is the same music at both places, unless your rhythm is inconsistent on purpose, I don't see any other reason to do this. Just make 01:01:332 (1,2) - like the other ones. The second one starts with the DJ scratches, the rest are all the same. Consistency issues like this are intended. You want my reasoning, you've got it. Now you can disagree with it and I'll be the one who's wrong.
- 01:09:665 - sounds super weird that you are ignoring this loud beat :l Because the wacky slider is clearly following the scry. not every bass beat needs a click. (HEATHENRY, i know.)
- 01:42:895 (1,2) - Why are you doing the manual stack at this kind of patterns now, when you didn't before for example 00:02:895 (1,2) - , looks inconsistent and not something that we gonna expect from an experienced mapper, specially whe multiple people are telling you to be more consistent with this map. Originally, the "manual stacks" were different because I had a cohesive theme to the map. After the explosion of the kiai. the spacing was more rickety and less perfect because all of the energy of the song has been expended and it's now just falling apart as the song ends.
- Also there are a bunch of inconsistencies, overall the design is poor made IMO, and there are a bunch of blankets off, I mean if your archive is to make rankable maps then is fine, but I really think you could do alot better than this, specially with tiny stuff like blankets to important stuff as is the rhythm of the song >: name every single blanket and every single aesthetic change that provides no change to direct gameplay and i'll happily fix them if you offer to work with me to re-rank the map. Otherwise, it's clearly not important enough for either of us to get worked over on.
Shiirn, can you stop whining here, take a break, go outside, deep breath and come back later.
You're just tilted and it doesn't help anyone here. Don't make me lock this :/
You're just tilted and it doesn't help anyone here. Don't make me lock this :/
Another problem here is that whenever Shiirn changes something, someone else said that the change was bad and would rather it be some other way, so there isn't really a middle ground which compromises with everyone. To be honest, I think people need to actually discuss with each other and make a general list of changes where the community have compromised with each other in the first place instead of all giving Shiirn mods which are contradicting each other.
tl;dr: Can everyone discuss suggestions instead of giving them to Shiirn here since it's clustered and contradictory lots of the time.
Tuning in with discussion now~
Edit: Nevermind he removed diffs
tl;dr: Can everyone discuss suggestions instead of giving them to Shiirn here since it's clustered and contradictory lots of the time.
Tuning in with discussion now~
Edit: Nevermind he removed diffs
Topic Starter
shARPII wrote:
Shiirn, can you stop whining here, take a break, go outside, deep breath and come back later.
You're just tilted and it doesn't help anyone here. Don't make me lock this :/
You have no idea how incredibly frustrating it is to deal with people who reject your opinions and feelings offhand because they simply believe they know better. That's literally the only rationale both sides have - "I feel it is better this way" - and because they err on the side of consistency and order, I'm automatically in the wrong.
moki_old_1
Hey Shiirn, mind putting back the diffs up so we can -try- and discuss this?
We might be able to narrow all these suggestions into something you can accept and we all agree on \o/
We might be able to narrow all these suggestions into something you can accept and we all agree on \o/
Topic Starter
Do what you like. I'll re-fill the set. I'm just so tired of explaining myself over and over only to be offhandedly brushed aside that I'm not going to bother anymore. Don't expect me to respond to every single little thing presented because that is nothing but a tactic to wear down my force of will and I'm tired of that tactic being allowed.
Hi! I didn't notice you here.moki wrote:
I liked every version of this mapset, thanks for spending your precious time on mapping this masterpiece.
Hm going from the average content of your posts here:
Are you satisfied with the Extra?
You said it doesnt feel like your map, but rather like a set of compromises sewn together to make a diff. There are people around here which are so confused about this that they are willing to go out of their way to spend their time wondering about this diff... And are met with the unwillingness to sew more compromises in, which is perfectly reasonable.
What i dont understand is why you seem to have little interest in making this map more like your vision of the song again and instead want to rank it as is for the sake of ongaku? I thought you cared more
Are you satisfied with the Extra?
You said it doesnt feel like your map, but rather like a set of compromises sewn together to make a diff. There are people around here which are so confused about this that they are willing to go out of their way to spend their time wondering about this diff... And are met with the unwillingness to sew more compromises in, which is perfectly reasonable.
What i dont understand is why you seem to have little interest in making this map more like your vision of the song again and instead want to rank it as is for the sake of ongaku? I thought you cared more
Anyone mind summarizing the main points into one post or something along those lines? All the mods are spread out everywhere it's hard to understand.
Topic Starter
Okorin wrote:
What i dont understand is why you seem to have little interest in making this map more like your vision of the song again and instead want to rank it as is for the sake of ongaku? I thought you cared more
I'd basically need to remap the entire song at this point. But I can't remap the song with the same feelings and vision I had to begin with because Routing has functionally changed for me. It was originally a casual-fun track that was always able to get my blood flowing and my energy levels up because it's just so EXPLOSIVE with energy, especially during the kiai. But now I'm just reminded of all the frustration and exhaustion associated with trying to rank it every time I listen to the track.
The song isn't fun for me anymore. My original vision is long gone. I couldn't remap it if I tried. I desperately tried to protect Comfort much as possible, but Extra I just don't care about and it was always just filler to make the rest of the set rankable. I was much more willing to make compromises and sew shit together in the hopes of moving the map forward.
I'm here not to argue or something.... okay i actually like to argue.
I'm not yet checking the map tho, so i don't know if it's good or bad. But reading some comment in this thread, i can assume this map is averagely good. i do agree with Shiirn who want to keep the feel of the map. But most people here concerning to it's playability, which actually makes sense to argue IF it's actually hardly played by player.
Assuming Shiirn want to rank this, i'd like to join the disscussion (after i check this ofc) cause i found some ambigous word from each person.
I'm not yet checking the map tho, so i don't know if it's good or bad. But reading some comment in this thread, i can assume this map is averagely good. i do agree with Shiirn who want to keep the feel of the map. But most people here concerning to it's playability, which actually makes sense to argue IF it's actually hardly played by player.
Assuming Shiirn want to rank this, i'd like to join the disscussion (after i check this ofc) cause i found some ambigous word from each person.
Sounds like you're incredibly depressed for some reason. Don't let it affect too much or else, you might not enjoy mapping the way you intend to. It's true that today's communities don't treat this one as fun because most of the time, they are enjoying maps that gives high amount of pp (but in reality they have problems with enjoying the game, something that they give low rating to maps that barely give any pp). It's true that the perspective of people today is different from back then. However, there are still people today who don't care much about pp and those people are the one who really enjoy the game. I'm just sharing my opinion here so it's your deciscion if yould accept this or not.
I'm sorry if you can't understand something about what I said. I'm not used to write something like this considering my whole personality.
I'm sorry if you can't understand something about what I said. I'm not used to write something like this considering my whole personality.
Please, keep this topic under control. You're here to help the mapper, not for memes (which should be on reddit or OT, if it's a good one).
I'd like to add a map isn't only a community or a mapper choice but both.
You have to learn how to use your arguments and your POV to explain properly what is the meaning of something and why you did it. If you fail here, there's probably something wrong (using "X is better than Y" or "don't kill my spirit" excuses aren't helping)
If your explanation makes sense, there's no reason to see more than 50% of users who're writing on the topic being against your opinion.
Instead of taking mods from users like a personal attack, try to put yourself in their shoes and try to understand why they think something is wrong by looking at your map with different ways.
Anyway, maps have always been approved by the community (which were represented by QATs) so you'll have to deal with it.
Good luck.
I'd like to add a map isn't only a community or a mapper choice but both.
You have to learn how to use your arguments and your POV to explain properly what is the meaning of something and why you did it. If you fail here, there's probably something wrong (using "X is better than Y" or "don't kill my spirit" excuses aren't helping)
If your explanation makes sense, there's no reason to see more than 50% of users who're writing on the topic being against your opinion.
Instead of taking mods from users like a personal attack, try to put yourself in their shoes and try to understand why they think something is wrong by looking at your map with different ways.
Anyway, maps have always been approved by the community (which were represented by QATs) so you'll have to deal with it.
Good luck.
Glad to have this back. Let's hope that nothing goes wrong this time. Focus on the things that can help the mapper and not to cause more drama. I'll make sure to look on the map if possible.
Let's hope we can get some constructive comments again this time (unlike this post).
Will put my two cents later.
Will put my two cents later.
Keep in mind this "50%" refers to four people out of x number of overall users even if we just take into account the intended player base. I've been keeping up with this thread since shiirn mapped this (mostly since I had asked him to map this song) and for the most part these recent suggestions have all been things that have either been modified by previous suggestions or things that have been explained before. I'm on mobile atm so I can't offer much in terms of quotes and I'll try to do this when I get back from work but all in all these are mostly things that can be dismissed. No map is perfect and neither should our expectations because we're all human and we all make mistakes (see the many ranked maps with unrankable concerns) and that's fine so there's no reason for shiirn to have to keep justifying every object in his map. My reply was deleted but my points stand.
Not trying to start shit but why doesn't this apply to any HW maps?Loctav wrote:
Sadly, you have to make an agreement with the community, not with the QAT. They won't judge your map anymore. So better put the effort to convince people raising concerns here that this creation is fine as it is or do not try to get it Ranked.
I like this map a lot, I hate to see mappers forced to basically collab with strangers because of subjective matters. There are already tons of maps that are either turned into something completely out of the creators intention, or rotting in the graveyard, because mappers are basically forced to follow mods of the more expressive minority.
I skimmed the mods between the qualify and unqualified posts, and they're all mods that basically start with "well, to me, this is wrong..." This isn't what mapping is about. Mods should never be about trying to redesign somebody elses work, it should be about polishing it; catching out crap like snapping error or unintentional distance spikes.
Topic Starter
For what it's worth, the entire point of frustration on routing is that it has a lot of inconsistencies and quirks that are very obvious when modding the map and looking through it in the editor. This, combined with people combing through it at 25% and 50% speed just looking for things to point out, means that it's very, very easy to come up with a wall of text that I must them personally provide my feelings and opinions for, for every single point. This is extremely exhausting, especially considering Routing was entirely made to be intentionally inconsistent and partially "unpredictable" to fit with my vision of the music.
Nobody can deny that this track, from a musical and compositional standpoint, is weird. Camellia loves doing this kind of thing. He's very experienced and nuanced in his repeated musical patterns and how he ties them together during repeated sections and i try to represent this by having my own patterns follow his slightly different musical patterns. This does not always play well, especially not for people who are so, so, so used to boring anime and dnb tracks which have literally identical stanzas repeated 4-8 times. Camellia will have those same 4-8 stanzas start the same but connect to eachother slightly differently.
I have naught but circles, sliders, and two buttons to provide the player with this experience.
I am not taking any individual mod on this map as a personal attack, but rather as yet another bothersome chore that is being forced upon me because it basically forces me to either explain exhaustively these concepts I listed above to every single modder, as concisely as possible, every time. Can you seriously blame me for getting frustrated and stressed out? These concepts that I built Routing on, namely, intentional inconsistency and differing emphasis, are very easy to understand if people bother looking outside of their own comfort bubble. People are getting so worked up over how each individual tree looks that they're forgetting to look at the forest.
It's tiring and frustrating that people simply discard these concepts because they disagree with them, and I'm left with nothing to show for it. These are fairly advanced mapping concepts because they break the norms of "consistency mapping" (which I believe is a tool best used for newbie mappers before they start understanding how to actually map) and it's hard to explain it in bite-sized chunks for every single modder who happens to play the map like, twice.
I understand people are genuinely trying to help and that they genuinely feel like their suggestions may posit some improvement, but they really didn't in the past, and really won't in the future. Sure there are a lot that helped, but as an experienced mapper I like to pretend that I should be allowed some leeway in knowing what to accept and what to decline. I have tried time and time and time and time again to explain how I feel and how each individual working piece of the map works with others, only to have it discarded or ignored because the person I am trying to meet halfway either disagrees with the very concept or doesn't understand.
I'm just not willing to go out of my way to extend the hand of common ground on this only for them to slap my hand away without even bothering to try and see things my way just as much as I try to see things their way.
I'm not going to bother searching out QAT or BN to re-qualify this map anymore because it's fucking insane that I can spend dozens and dozens of hours working and discussing this map with dozens of people and have the entire thing shut down by a few handful of inexperienced or narrow-minded individuals. It's a massive waste of time and effort and I hope everyone who has refused to even begin to try and understand my feelings is proud of themselves for upholding their precious worldview.
If you're still reading by this point you have my utmost thanks and respect.
I'm not even asking for people to just let me do what I want. I want to discuss things rationally and in depth because that is fun. It is fun to me to discuss mapping concepts and what people are trying to do with their maps and what they're trying to do by fiddling around with patterns or hitsounds or spacing or choice of circle vs slider or beat emphasis. But it's not fun when people are attacking my map whilst constantly asking why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why because that puts all of the effort on me, the mapper, and that's not fair.
Thank you for all the support, and thank you for any constructive criticism. I'm not going to lie and say that I'm perfectly fine with how this turned out. I'm really let down by the immediate vile response, but also very uplifted by the support shown to me directly. But I'm not going to stop mapping and I'm not going to stop making maps with concepts beyond the newbie mapper toolkit of "consistency and flow".
This is my last major post unless a BN or QAT or some combination thereof is willing to push this back into qualification, and they're going to need to come to me to start it up, which isn't likely going to happen so this is likely the end.
Nobody can deny that this track, from a musical and compositional standpoint, is weird. Camellia loves doing this kind of thing. He's very experienced and nuanced in his repeated musical patterns and how he ties them together during repeated sections and i try to represent this by having my own patterns follow his slightly different musical patterns. This does not always play well, especially not for people who are so, so, so used to boring anime and dnb tracks which have literally identical stanzas repeated 4-8 times. Camellia will have those same 4-8 stanzas start the same but connect to eachother slightly differently.
I have naught but circles, sliders, and two buttons to provide the player with this experience.
I am not taking any individual mod on this map as a personal attack, but rather as yet another bothersome chore that is being forced upon me because it basically forces me to either explain exhaustively these concepts I listed above to every single modder, as concisely as possible, every time. Can you seriously blame me for getting frustrated and stressed out? These concepts that I built Routing on, namely, intentional inconsistency and differing emphasis, are very easy to understand if people bother looking outside of their own comfort bubble. People are getting so worked up over how each individual tree looks that they're forgetting to look at the forest.
It's tiring and frustrating that people simply discard these concepts because they disagree with them, and I'm left with nothing to show for it. These are fairly advanced mapping concepts because they break the norms of "consistency mapping" (which I believe is a tool best used for newbie mappers before they start understanding how to actually map) and it's hard to explain it in bite-sized chunks for every single modder who happens to play the map like, twice.
I understand people are genuinely trying to help and that they genuinely feel like their suggestions may posit some improvement, but they really didn't in the past, and really won't in the future. Sure there are a lot that helped, but as an experienced mapper I like to pretend that I should be allowed some leeway in knowing what to accept and what to decline. I have tried time and time and time and time again to explain how I feel and how each individual working piece of the map works with others, only to have it discarded or ignored because the person I am trying to meet halfway either disagrees with the very concept or doesn't understand.
I'm just not willing to go out of my way to extend the hand of common ground on this only for them to slap my hand away without even bothering to try and see things my way just as much as I try to see things their way.
I'm not going to bother searching out QAT or BN to re-qualify this map anymore because it's fucking insane that I can spend dozens and dozens of hours working and discussing this map with dozens of people and have the entire thing shut down by a few handful of inexperienced or narrow-minded individuals. It's a massive waste of time and effort and I hope everyone who has refused to even begin to try and understand my feelings is proud of themselves for upholding their precious worldview.
If you're still reading by this point you have my utmost thanks and respect.
I'm not even asking for people to just let me do what I want. I want to discuss things rationally and in depth because that is fun. It is fun to me to discuss mapping concepts and what people are trying to do with their maps and what they're trying to do by fiddling around with patterns or hitsounds or spacing or choice of circle vs slider or beat emphasis. But it's not fun when people are attacking my map whilst constantly asking why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why because that puts all of the effort on me, the mapper, and that's not fair.
Thank you for all the support, and thank you for any constructive criticism. I'm not going to lie and say that I'm perfectly fine with how this turned out. I'm really let down by the immediate vile response, but also very uplifted by the support shown to me directly. But I'm not going to stop mapping and I'm not going to stop making maps with concepts beyond the newbie mapper toolkit of "consistency and flow".
This is my last major post unless a BN or QAT or some combination thereof is willing to push this back into qualification, and they're going to need to come to me to start it up, which isn't likely going to happen so this is likely the end.
After reading all this I'll probably not try to rank a map ever again with these new "'community-driven" checks nobody ever wanted and nobody asked for. Seeing how ranking your map is already a very long and hard process since BNs are scarce, busy and have long queues, especially if you are an unknown mapper, the tiny amount of effort it takes for anyone to be able to DQ a map just so you can repeat the whole cycle again is just outright stupid.
Tbh this would prob get DQ-ed either way from the same things, people do spam mods, QATs get attention, DQ for same reason.
No difference really \o/
No difference really \o/
Community-driven checks are not wrong, it's that the vocal community that are doing these "checks" have the wrong mindset. The vast majority of modders are people that cannot play the map as it is intended, and so can only judge a map through editor, which is a lot different than actually playing the map and actually EXPERIENCING it.Voli wrote:
After reading all this I'll probably not try to rank a map ever again with these new "'community-driven" checks nobody ever wanted and nobody asked for. Seeing how ranking your map is already a very long and hard process, especially if you are an unknown mapper, the tiny amount of effort it takes for anyone to be able to DQ a map is just outright stupid.
The community that we (I) want to do these checks are the people that actually play the map, so basically the top players who can comfortably complete this map. Those are the only opinions that really matter, in my eyes.
It's like letting other countries vote for the next US president; those countries aren't the ones that are affected as greatly as the US, so their opinion is much less regarded (as in they can't vote)
I agree, they are not wrong, but with the current system of ''any complaints are DQ-worthy so we can discuss first, then have fun repeating the cycle again'' it just doesn't feel worth it anymore to try to rank a map. It causes stress, worry and anger more than it has positive sides. If there was a quick way to instantly re-rank a map without having to go through all this bullshit every time, maybe then it would work.a loli wrote:
Community-driven checks are not wrong, it's that the vocal community that are doing these "checks" have the wrong mindset. Looking at a map through editor is a lot different than actually playing the map, which is the problem with difficult maps; most of the modders can't play the map as it is intended so they base all their claims in the editor.
All this leads to is a chain of "have-to-do" mods, giving an end result of a map that doesn't in the slightest resemble the original.Voli wrote:
I agree, they are not wrong, but with the current system of ''any complaints are DQ-worthy so we can discuss first, then have fun repeating the cycle again'' it just doesn't feel worth it anymore to try to rank a map. It causes stress, worry and anger more than it has positive sides. If there was a quick way to instantly re-rank a map without having to go through all this bullshit every time, maybe then it would work.
maps that come up at the top of my head are tengaku and toumei elegy
And see THIS is the problem. Things like this happen so often that creators are just simply discouraged and the map is left to grave meanwhile the people that caused it can go on their merry way and qats just say oh well no skin off my nose \:v/ or however that saying goes. Nothing changes and nothing will change at this rate. Safe "consistent" and "flowy" maps get ranked all the time because they're not wrong but does that immediately make maps that lack some of one or the other wrong? No and that is where the problem begins. Everyone conforms to a kind of map and expect all others to be just like it because it works but by only doing that you take away creativity all for the sake of ranking just to qualify to the "community standards "
I don't want you to give up on this shiirn but I can support if you truly feel this way and leave it up to your decision.
I don't want you to give up on this shiirn but I can support if you truly feel this way and leave it up to your decision.
That is correct. Also the whole concept of ''coming to a concencus with the community'' isn't thought through at all since the community obviously has varying opinions seeing as it consists of completely random players, each with their own opinions. Seeing this, it is impossible to come to a good ''concensus with the community'' without transforming your map into an everchanging mess of clashing opinions. Every map has people who like and dislike it.a loli wrote:
All this leads to is a chain of "have-to-do" mods, giving an end result of a map that doesn't in the slightest resemble the original.
maps that come up at the top of my head are tengaku and toumei elegy
I think I'm done here, don't want to ramble more in a map's thread. I just felt like someone had to say it.
I just don't see why people can't adapt to the community, there are songs that I don't particularly enjoy playing, then I do not play them, simple as that.
Sucks to see this cool map go into the grave much like a lot of the other great maps in this game. I hope for the sake of not only Shiirn but the rest of the community as well that this sort of "no, that is your interpretation of a map, that's not good enough for the masses"-thinking stops. It's hurting the entire community, it would have been nice to have a nice breath of fresh air coming into the game since we really haven't had any controversial maps getting ranked in standard for a long time.
Sucks to see this cool map go into the grave much like a lot of the other great maps in this game. I hope for the sake of not only Shiirn but the rest of the community as well that this sort of "no, that is your interpretation of a map, that's not good enough for the masses"-thinking stops. It's hurting the entire community, it would have been nice to have a nice breath of fresh air coming into the game since we really haven't had any controversial maps getting ranked in standard for a long time.
I honestly feel like the one at fault for the current state of the beatmap is the community rather than Shiirn, I bet Shiirn wants to make as many people as possible satisfied, but that's not really possible for this one.
It is good that the qualification is even more community-driven right now, but as long as mapping is an abstract subject with so many ways of interpretation, there WILL BE people that dislike a map, be it a pattern, a structure, you can't satisfy everyone, this game is different for everyone, one might like the surprising intensity changes, another one will enjoy the huge jumps, BUT CMON, people can't agree on everything, especially on such a song and unorthodox map.
Shiirn tried his best to change the difficulties in a way that will feel appropriate for most people, but people nag on stuff that were changed due to previous suggestions, in the end it is not just Shirn's map, but just a mixup of opinions that might and might not make it enjoyable for some people.
Please, if you don't want to see this ranked, if you don't like the way it is mapped, or you just simply dislike this thread, LEAVE, if you don't want to see this map appear on your browser, tell me and I'll create a script that hides it, just for you.
It is good that the qualification is even more community-driven right now, but as long as mapping is an abstract subject with so many ways of interpretation, there WILL BE people that dislike a map, be it a pattern, a structure, you can't satisfy everyone, this game is different for everyone, one might like the surprising intensity changes, another one will enjoy the huge jumps, BUT CMON, people can't agree on everything, especially on such a song and unorthodox map.
Shiirn tried his best to change the difficulties in a way that will feel appropriate for most people, but people nag on stuff that were changed due to previous suggestions, in the end it is not just Shirn's map, but just a mixup of opinions that might and might not make it enjoyable for some people.
Please, if you don't want to see this ranked, if you don't like the way it is mapped, or you just simply dislike this thread, LEAVE, if you don't want to see this map appear on your browser, tell me and I'll create a script that hides it, just for you.
I couldn't have read every post in this thread as right now I'm kinda too busy trying to be not busy, this post has gotten my attention; and for a good reason. This is a well made post that I completely agree with. With current mindset of "mappers" or "modders" its very hard to achieve such a system.Avishay wrote:
I honestly feel like the one at fault for the current state of the beatmap is the community rather than Shiirn, I bet Shiirn wants to make as many people as possible satisfied, but that's not really possible for this one.
It is good that the qualification is even more community-driven right now, but as long as mapping is an abstract subject with so many ways of interpretation, there WILL BE people that dislike a map, be it a pattern, a structure, you can't satisfy everyone, this game is different for everyone, one might like the surprising intensity changes, another one will enjoy the huge jumps, BUT CMON, people can't agree on everything, especially on such a song and unorthodox map.
Shiirn tried his best to change the difficulties in a way that will feel appropriate for most people, but people nag on stuff that were changed due to previous suggestions, in the end it is not just Shirn's map, but just a mixup of opinions that might and might not make it enjoyable for some people.
Please, if you don't want to see this ranked, if you don't like the way it is mapped, or you just simply dislike this thread, LEAVE, if you don't want to see this map appear on your browser, tell me and I'll create a script that hides it, just for you.
And worst of all; the more popular map is, higher the chances more people will hate on it. And it will get to a point where you can't satisfy ANYONE; yet alone everyone. I hope a change happens soon or else things are looking in vain.
What happened to the whole "If you don't like a map, dont play it" argument?
It got debunked, along with:
"You don't need to be a chef to say the food is bad."
"You don't need to be a chef to say the food is bad."
Im glad Shiirn chooses to keep this map the way it is.
This is how he sees the song. No reason to change it into something totally different just because people disagree with his views.
Just leave it as unranked if no one's gonna re-qualify it. It's fine that way. The people who can play it and enjoy the playing experience don't really need it ranked anyways. Pretty sure they'll rather have an enjoyable unranked map that follows a certain mapper's view compared to a ranked map that is a mess of different ideas from the "community" mashed into it just to get it ranked.
Plz don't turn this map into one of the latter.
This is how he sees the song. No reason to change it into something totally different just because people disagree with his views.
Just leave it as unranked if no one's gonna re-qualify it. It's fine that way. The people who can play it and enjoy the playing experience don't really need it ranked anyways. Pretty sure they'll rather have an enjoyable unranked map that follows a certain mapper's view compared to a ranked map that is a mess of different ideas from the "community" mashed into it just to get it ranked.
Plz don't turn this map into one of the latter.
I think it's nice that people are agreeing with Shiirn here, even if the post isn't a mod. Players are voicing their dissent by posting all sorts of different flow and consistency related mods, but I think that if it becomes clear that a large enough portion of the community is ok with the map as it is then I think it can be qualified again and perhaps ranked.
Even if other parts of the community don't want Routing to be ranked because it isn't the conventional jump-and-stream mapping... well, since when has a map had to placate the ENTIRETY of the community to be ranked? I think if there are enough people who understand and support the map then that's enough. Anyways, I don't think mods discussing specific parts of the map will be helpful because such things aren't the problem here; the problem is an ideological one that in my opinion can only be solved by a discussion such as this. Anything less will result in dissatisfaction on one if not both sides.
Having said that
Extra
00:59:353 (4,5,6) - requires insane control and velocity change, especially considering the direction the cursor is coming in at from the previous (3) slider. i get that inconsistency is a theme in this map but this part is so much harder than the rest of the map; i think there should be SOME consistency when it comes to patterns and difficulty.
01:35:707 (5,1,2,3) - not sure if anybody else had this problem but this is bizarre rhythmic/spacing choice and it's very hard to read. that would be fine, but there's nothing else of the sort in any other part of the map, and again i think there should be SOME consistency in the map
these are the two things that stood out to me the most, everything else is perfect imo
Even if other parts of the community don't want Routing to be ranked because it isn't the conventional jump-and-stream mapping... well, since when has a map had to placate the ENTIRETY of the community to be ranked? I think if there are enough people who understand and support the map then that's enough. Anyways, I don't think mods discussing specific parts of the map will be helpful because such things aren't the problem here; the problem is an ideological one that in my opinion can only be solved by a discussion such as this. Anything less will result in dissatisfaction on one if not both sides.
Having said that
Extra
00:59:353 (4,5,6) - requires insane control and velocity change, especially considering the direction the cursor is coming in at from the previous (3) slider. i get that inconsistency is a theme in this map but this part is so much harder than the rest of the map; i think there should be SOME consistency when it comes to patterns and difficulty.
01:35:707 (5,1,2,3) - not sure if anybody else had this problem but this is bizarre rhythmic/spacing choice and it's very hard to read. that would be fine, but there's nothing else of the sort in any other part of the map, and again i think there should be SOME consistency in the map
these are the two things that stood out to me the most, everything else is perfect imo
Yeah this map is very controversial and became a clusterfuck of discussion for the new community-involved rankings and actual suggestions for the map itself
I've had a look at the map and some of the thread (I'm too lazy to read all of those walls) and came to the conclusion that this map is like a wild thought you have but can't explain to someone else and you're stuck between reciving "useless" help that doesn't really, well, help and tryng to materialize your idea as best as you can.
Shiirin said that the idea this song wants to represent is a fun track with a wild adrenaline rush in the kiai, hence the weird flow, the exagerated/unconsistent spacing and other things everyone seems to be fussing about. Those are intentional and aren't the problem. Ranking this map is (from a BN/QAT point of view) like tryng to fit a piece of modern art into an 1800 art exhibition, no matter how you look at it, they're too different and just aren't made to go togheter. This map is more like an idea made into a map and the ""normal"" ranked maps are, well, just circles placed to the beat
I will drop my piece of opinion about the Discomfort diff, be it ignored or not by the mapper:
00:12:895 (1,2,3,4) - I get what you're tryng to represent here and it's a good concept, but you can still keep the feeling AND nerf the jump to make it more playable.
01:13:311 to 01:25:290 - I love this part, the climax with the bigger spacing feels awesome and fits very well into the song, but 01:26:645 this next part is a little less lively yet you've kept similar spacing and difficulty, which in my opinion should be lowered to go along better with the song
These advices are really vague and would require, if applied, a partial re-map of those sections (which I can tell by your other posts aren't willing to do) but even if applied wouldn't "fix" the map from a technical point of view, it's still awkward with all the spacing/flow "issues"
I've had a look at the map and some of the thread (I'm too lazy to read all of those walls) and came to the conclusion that this map is like a wild thought you have but can't explain to someone else and you're stuck between reciving "useless" help that doesn't really, well, help and tryng to materialize your idea as best as you can.
Shiirin said that the idea this song wants to represent is a fun track with a wild adrenaline rush in the kiai, hence the weird flow, the exagerated/unconsistent spacing and other things everyone seems to be fussing about. Those are intentional and aren't the problem. Ranking this map is (from a BN/QAT point of view) like tryng to fit a piece of modern art into an 1800 art exhibition, no matter how you look at it, they're too different and just aren't made to go togheter. This map is more like an idea made into a map and the ""normal"" ranked maps are, well, just circles placed to the beat
I will drop my piece of opinion about the Discomfort diff, be it ignored or not by the mapper:
00:12:895 (1,2,3,4) - I get what you're tryng to represent here and it's a good concept, but you can still keep the feeling AND nerf the jump to make it more playable.
01:13:311 to 01:25:290 - I love this part, the climax with the bigger spacing feels awesome and fits very well into the song, but 01:26:645 this next part is a little less lively yet you've kept similar spacing and difficulty, which in my opinion should be lowered to go along better with the song
These advices are really vague and would require, if applied, a partial re-map of those sections (which I can tell by your other posts aren't willing to do) but even if applied wouldn't "fix" the map from a technical point of view, it's still awkward with all the spacing/flow "issues"
Topic Starter
Forlornly wrote:
Having said that
Extra
00:59:353 (4,5,6) - requires insane control and velocity change, especially considering the direction the cursor is coming in at from the previous (3) slider. i get that inconsistency is a theme in this map but this part is so much harder than the rest of the map; i think there should be SOME consistency when it comes to patterns and difficulty. ( 00:59:353 (4,5) - were originally in a position closer to THIS, which I feel is much more sensible with the pattern, but it got complaints about "flow" because it's a 4,5 being fairly close together with a large jump to 6 without it being big enough to "feel" like a jump. This is one of those "Fixes" I'm happy to undo and return to its original state - but I don't always remember exactly what I did originally until someone points it out.
01:35:707 (5,1,2,3) - not sure if anybody else had this problem but this is bizarre rhythmic/spacing choice and it's very hard to read. that would be fine, but there's nothing else of the sort in any other part of the map, and again i think there should be SOME consistency in the map This is the end of the entire section and the departure of the vocals, and they follow the vocals in a very off-beat way. This is very bizarre to play, but that's intended. On Discomfort, it plays differently because the song continues the (much easier to follow) repeated click pattern. On extra, it's purely off-beat but also requires little to no movement, so it's a different sort of challenge I guess. not entirely sure what to do to extra because it's such a mess now.
these are the two things that stood out to me the most, everything else is perfect imo
Chyo-Kun wrote:
I will drop my piece of opinion about the Discomfort diff, be it ignored or not by the mapper:
00:12:895 (1,2,3,4) - I get what you're tryng to represent here and it's a good concept, but you can still keep the feeling AND nerf the jump to make it more playable. The big issue with doing any sort of spacing nerf here is that the movements lose context due to all of the notes (except 4) being on previous notes. (1 used to be underneath 00:12:270 (4) - ). The spacing is ridiculous, I totally agree, and it fits what I'm trying to do, but is just a bit crazy big. But I can't shrink it either without completely restructuring the pattern. I'll probably fiddle with this some more one day, but today is not that day.
01:13:311 to 01:25:290 - I love this part, the climax with the bigger spacing feels awesome and fits very well into the song, but 01:26:645 this next part is a little less lively yet you've kept similar spacing and difficulty, which in my opinion should be lowered to go along better with the song Due to how the song is structured, decreasing the spacing of things such as 01:27:061 (3,5,7) - would also necessitate the movement or re-structuring of 01:27:999 (2,4) - , 01:28:728 (4,6) - , 01:29:353 (1,3) - , I think you get the picture. The spacing is, indeed, large, but in a different vein from the burst of the first kiai because the second one alternates very quickly between sliders and circles, rather than the first kiai's nearly PURE circles, so the actual difficulty is lower due to the lower click density. This is one of those "It looks like the spacing is the same in editor" but "actually plays much easier" situations. I really appreciate how you noticed this, though, as it gives me a chance to explain my reasoning as to why I chose to keep such ridiculous-at-a-glance spacing.
These advices are really vague and would require, if applied, a partial re-map of those sections (which I can tell by your other posts aren't willing to do) but even if applied wouldn't "fix" the map from a technical point of view, it's still awkward with all the spacing/flow "issues"
want me to remod this when i get home
Topic Starter
not really.
Topic Starter
In accordance with this post, I've made the changes forcibly recommended by the disqualifying opinion presented in the box below.
Namely, the only thing I am willing to directly accept is the removal of new combos and any sort of "polishing pass" done to make blankets neater, parallel things parallel, etc etc. 00:26:540 (2,3) - has also been changed to a single slider against my actual wishes but because I simply don't give a shit anymore, fuck it let's change it.
This is a formal post requesting Natsu's, or any active BN's, cooperation. If Dis/Comfort is still an unrankable issue, I will remove it if said BNs are willing to rank the rest of the set as-is.
This is as plain and clear as I can possibly make the ranking process. Since it is very clear that Natsu specifically takes issue with the map, perhaps a direct session with Natsu, publicly shown, would be the best way to go over Extra and how every single object ties together. I think it would look very bad on anyone's reputation if they were to simply appear when a map gets qualified to DQ it and then simply have nothing to do with it until it is qualified again.
I am fully prepared to do the same for Discomfort if the chance is so presented, but somehow I doubt that will happen.
Namely, the only thing I am willing to directly accept is the removal of new combos and any sort of "polishing pass" done to make blankets neater, parallel things parallel, etc etc. 00:26:540 (2,3) - has also been changed to a single slider against my actual wishes but because I simply don't give a shit anymore, fuck it let's change it.
This is a formal post requesting Natsu's, or any active BN's, cooperation. If Dis/Comfort is still an unrankable issue, I will remove it if said BNs are willing to rank the rest of the set as-is.
This is as plain and clear as I can possibly make the ranking process. Since it is very clear that Natsu specifically takes issue with the map, perhaps a direct session with Natsu, publicly shown, would be the best way to go over Extra and how every single object ties together. I think it would look very bad on anyone's reputation if they were to simply appear when a map gets qualified to DQ it and then simply have nothing to do with it until it is qualified again.
I am fully prepared to do the same for Discomfort if the chance is so presented, but somehow I doubt that will happen.
stuff
Shiirn wrote:
Natsu wrote:
gonna bring my opinions on this as well:anyways gl with this
- 00:26:540 (2,3) - is pretty obvious that your rhythm is following the song in the wrong way, I checked your reply to Elvis mod and still don't make much sense, the 1/4 thing already started before that, following the active beats is what will be more intuitive, actually every suggestion from Elvis is not subjetive o.o, but really objetive talking about correct rhythm ofc. The first click is following the same pattern as the notes before it. The 1/2 after it is following the fairly subtle 1/8 triple starting 00:26:645 - and ending 00:26:749 - and at the end of the slider. Because it'd be incredibly confusing and hard to play such a combination of clicks, it's a simple slider instead.
- 00:27:895 (1,1,1,1) - spamming combos looks nice? because the stream is pretty much the smae 1/4 the only thing that changes is that is stacked, so the only NC that you need is 00:27:895 (1) - This NC was purely for aesthetic reasons and for further emphasizing what made these four beats different. If it's directly unrankable, go call a QAT.
- 00:57:999 (1) - 01:01:332 (1,2) - 01:04:665 (1) - 01:07:999 (1) - why are these mapped in different way ? since is the same music at both places, unless your rhythm is inconsistent on purpose, I don't see any other reason to do this. Just make 01:01:332 (1,2) - like the other ones. The second one starts with the DJ scratches, the rest are all the same. Consistency issues like this are intended. You want my reasoning, you've got it. Now you can disagree with it and I'll be the one who's wrong.
- 01:09:665 - sounds super weird that you are ignoring this loud beat :l Because the wacky slider is clearly following the scry. not every bass beat needs a click. (HEATHENRY, i know.)
- 01:42:895 (1,2) - Why are you doing the manual stack at this kind of patterns now, when you didn't before for example 00:02:895 (1,2) - , looks inconsistent and not something that we gonna expect from an experienced mapper, specially whe multiple people are telling you to be more consistent with this map. Originally, the "manual stacks" were different because I had a cohesive theme to the map. After the explosion of the kiai. the spacing was more rickety and less perfect because all of the energy of the song has been expended and it's now just falling apart as the song ends.
- Also there are a bunch of inconsistencies, overall the design is poor made IMO, and there are a bunch of blankets off, I mean if your archive is to make rankable maps then is fine, but I really think you could do alot better than this, specially with tiny stuff like blankets to important stuff as is the rhythm of the song >: name every single blanket and every single aesthetic change that provides no change to direct gameplay and i'll happily fix them if you offer to work with me to re-rank the map. Otherwise, it's clearly not important enough for either of us to get worked over on.
Shiiirn I'm willing to go deep checking this map, but promise to take suggestion with open mind, also why is the 7 Stars difficulty back? wasn't that difficulty the reason of the first DQ: p/4896264
If you are going to work with me in a polite and calm way, I'll be glad to help you to move this forward and getting an agreement with you. Anyways send me a pm or post in the thread.
Edit: see that's the attitude that I don't like from you, can we talk like adults that we are? isn't that hard to explain your way in a calm way? I'll be back in like 8 hours, so poke me in game if you are open to discuss there.
If you are going to work with me in a polite and calm way, I'll be glad to help you to move this forward and getting an agreement with you. Anyways send me a pm or post in the thread.
Edit: see that's the attitude that I don't like from you, can we talk like adults that we are? isn't that hard to explain your way in a calm way? I'll be back in like 8 hours, so poke me in game if you are open to discuss there.
Topic Starter
The difficulty is back because people wanted to see it. Millhiore has also given his blessing for Comfort specifically as of like more than a month ago, but if that's irrelevant due to your same "but diff between extra and comfort!", I'll just delete it again.
I'm willing to change every single thing you list, whether I personally agree or not, just to save us both some time and effort from all the arguing.
I'm willing to change every single thing you list, whether I personally agree or not, just to save us both some time and effort from all the arguing.
guys chill
i actually really enjoy discomfort but that's just my worthless opinion OpieOP
As far as I know and what I can see from this, Shiirn didn't enjoy trying to rank this set, and if the creator doesn't enjoy ranking it, then theres no point in doing so. All I saw was Shiirn trying to rank this set for my diff's sake, which I'm really happy about, but at the same time upset because he didn't enjoy doing it. All I wanted was to enjoy making this set along with the others who participated in putting the set together, but it seems players didn't enjoy it. No problem with that.
The problem here is that this map desperately needs moddingv2. Many of the points made in these post-qualified mods have already been addressed multiple times before. I even mentioned a lot of them to Shiirn to hear his reasoning for the 50th time hoping to get him to change some stuff. We fixed quite a few rhythms, but the inherent problem is that with certain maps, this being a great example, there are always going to be patterns people find questionable. It's really draining on the mapper having to explain their reasoning so many times. If there were a way to document and pen down a mapper's reasoning for specific patterns (like moddingv2) we could reach a consensus much more easily because the discussion will ideally move away from these "why did you do this?" questions to "I agree/disagree with your reasoning and why".
Toumei Elegy 2.0
No room for your own personal preferences. Not even in your own maps. This is how I like it. Keep it up boys.
No room for your own personal preferences. Not even in your own maps. This is how I like it. Keep it up boys.
Problem with modding v2 is that its gonna have a lot more of people's opinion. Its gonna go back and forth with agreements and disagreements, until they come to a consensus and find the map entirely different, which is against the mapper's will, which is what kind of happened here.Monstrata wrote:
The problem here is that this map desperately needs moddingv2. Many of the points made in these post-qualified mods have already been addressed multiple times before. I even mentioned a lot of them to Shiirn to hear his reasoning for the 50th time hoping to get him to change some stuff. We fixed quite a few rhythms, but the inherent problem is that with certain maps, this being a great example, there are always going to be patterns people find questionable. It's really draining on the mapper having to explain their reasoning so many times. If there were a way to document and pen down a mapper's reasoning for specific patterns (like moddingv2) we could reach a consensus much more easily because the discussion will ideally move away from these "why did you do this?" questions to "I agree/disagree with your reasoning and why".
I don't know if its just me and my stupid thinking, I also think that Modding v2 might bring it into a new direction and change things, but will it actually be for the better? If you could, shine some light on me. I'm probably not thinking about Modding v2 correctly.
I am pretty sure you are one of the few, who are thinking correctly with this one.Ongaku wrote:
Problem with modding v2 is that its gonna have a lot more of people's opinion. Its gonna go back and forth with agreements and disagreements, until they come to a consensus and find the map entirely different, which is against the mapper's will, which is what kind of happened here.Monstrata wrote:
The problem here is that this map desperately needs moddingv2. Many of the points made in these post-qualified mods have already been addressed multiple times before. I even mentioned a lot of them to Shiirn to hear his reasoning for the 50th time hoping to get him to change some stuff. We fixed quite a few rhythms, but the inherent problem is that with certain maps, this being a great example, there are always going to be patterns people find questionable. It's really draining on the mapper having to explain their reasoning so many times. If there were a way to document and pen down a mapper's reasoning for specific patterns (like moddingv2) we could reach a consensus much more easily because the discussion will ideally move away from these "why did you do this?" questions to "I agree/disagree with your reasoning and why".
I don't know if its just me and my stupid thinking, I also think that Modding v2 might bring it into a new direction and change things, but will it actually be for the better? If you could, shine some light on me. I'm probably not thinking about Modding v2 correctly.
More community-open -> more opinions -> more disagreements/more discussion -> more frustration for mapper because he has to accept even more things he personally disagrees with.
shARPII wrote:
Ok guys this isn't the place for a thesis about the importance of users in mappers choices.
If you want to run something more serious, create a topic here and discuss freely : 56
I'll start to remove content which aren't mods for this specific map (or helping this map) under this post.
It will certainly help with a lot of things, but also cause more confusion with others.What everyone said about modding v2 wrote:
<stuff>
Likewise, moddingv2 helps with the maps that have "few things which are discussable" but in this case there are a lot of flying opinions about a lot things and the clustering of information and opinions won't exactly be any different, just presented nicer.
Edit: Oops offtopic sry
Hmm... I wouldn't think of moddingv2 like that. I don't think there's a necessity to change your map in order to appease every member of the community. I was thinking more in the lines of having some way to document one's reasoning for certain patterns and why one is unwilling to change them. It seems a better option than having to explain your reasoning again and again because people aren't reading up on previous mod posts/replies.
Regarding rhythm, Discomfort looks/sounds on point and the map is for itself reasonable
fuck y'all, you forgot what this game is about, let Shiirn do his thing
fuck y'all, you forgot what this game is about, let Shiirn do his thing
Yet the opinion of a few members of the community is all it took to redq it.Monstrata wrote:
Hmm... I wouldn't think of moddingv2 like that. I don't think there's a necessity to change your map in order to appease every member of the community. I was thinking more in the lines of having some way to document one's reasoning for certain patterns and why one is unwilling to change them. It seems a better option than having to explain your reasoning again and again because people aren't reading up on previous mod posts/replies.
Just gonna throw it out there that I found both [Comfort] and honestly, especially [Unrankable] very fun. As someone who alternates, it's a joy to play, even though it's incredibly difficult. I really don't think it needed many changes, because nitpicking minor things in a crazy map like that is like trying to use white-out to cover up certain portions of a mural. Why even bother? It's pointless and you're just heavily damaging something which was beautiful on its own. Really, players who lack the ability to alternate or singletap extremely quickly don't have much place commenting on this map, as it's meant for alting, in the same way Everything Went Numb, Scarlet Rose, and Meikaruza are. It's not playable for the majority of the playerbase simply because it's not their playstyle, and on top of that, it's unquestionably the hardest alternating map I've seen hit qualified. Honestly, in my personal opinion, it should be rolled back to an earlier iteration and modding should be redone from there, but I doubt that will happen based on Shiirn's current emotional state regarding the set. Everyone really should stop being a pain in the ass about this. The game is about fun, not about ruining that of everyone else.
Unless that's how you have fun, I guess.
My only actual beef with it at this point is "holy shit OD9.7 jesus christ"
Unless that's how you have fun, I guess.
My only actual beef with it at this point is "holy shit OD9.7 jesus christ"
As quoted from Shiirn:Moosqueak wrote:
Just gonna throw it out there that I found both [Comfort] and honestly, especially [Unrankable] very fun. As someone who alternates, it's a joy to play, even though it's incredibly difficult. I really don't think it needed many changes, because nitpicking minor things in a crazy map like that is like trying to use white-out to cover up certain portions of a mural. Why even bother? It's pointless and you're just heavily damaging something which was beautiful on its own. Really, players who lack the ability to alternate or singletap extremely quickly don't have much place commenting on this map, as it's meant for alting, in the same way Everything Went Numb, Scarlet Rose, and Meikaruza are. It's not playable for the majority of the playerbase simply because it's not their playstyle, and on top of that, it's unquestionably the hardest alternating map I've seen hit qualified. Honestly, in my personal opinion, it should be rolled back to an earlier iteration and modding should be redone from there, but I doubt that will happen based on Shiirn's current emotional state regarding the set. Everyone really should stop being a pain in the ass about this. The game is about fun, not about ruining that of everyone else.
Unless that's how you have fun, I guess.
"They just aren't ready yet"
Topic Starter
I am satisfied with how Comfort is right now. All that I think it really needs is someone to help me polish it up a bit. I have been satisfied with it since soon after the first DQ, when it received a minor visual and directional overhaul, but no BN or QAT is willing to rank it.
Extra was and currently is the problem, as it is an utter mess that has been torn apart three separate times: Right before qualification, where I needed to arbitrarily increase circle spacing so as to bump the star rating from 5.13 to 5.5 whilst barely making the map any harder, right after qualification, when I was balancing it to be more of a mediary between Insane and Comfort, and then after I dumped Comfort when it became clear that without Millhiore's say so nobody would be willing to qualify it, I tried to make Extra more of a standalone difficulty.
It was always meant to tie Insane and Comfort together, and with Comfort being gone, it lost a lot of context, which lead to confusing moments for modders where it's like "why don't you have a click here?", "well when Comfort was there all of those beats had clicks but Extra is less dense for the sake of ease of play" doesn't make sense when Comfort no longer exists.
This can be circularly discussed for days, if not weeks, without a consensus being reached. This is the kind of map that I really felt only really needed some polishing mods and moving into ranking, disagreements about the concept be damned. It's pointless unless there is a light at the end of the tunnel, which the current mapping climate has convinced me does not exist.
People will simply take down this map with opinions they've spent ten minutes scrounging off the floor whilst "modding" the map because "DQ for discussion" is the most retarded piece of shit rule I've ever seen. I had literally five motherfucking minutes to formulate a response to Natsu before the disqualification - where the fuck is the sense of "discussion" there? it just seems like people are trying to throw their weight around.
Extra was and currently is the problem, as it is an utter mess that has been torn apart three separate times: Right before qualification, where I needed to arbitrarily increase circle spacing so as to bump the star rating from 5.13 to 5.5 whilst barely making the map any harder, right after qualification, when I was balancing it to be more of a mediary between Insane and Comfort, and then after I dumped Comfort when it became clear that without Millhiore's say so nobody would be willing to qualify it, I tried to make Extra more of a standalone difficulty.
It was always meant to tie Insane and Comfort together, and with Comfort being gone, it lost a lot of context, which lead to confusing moments for modders where it's like "why don't you have a click here?", "well when Comfort was there all of those beats had clicks but Extra is less dense for the sake of ease of play" doesn't make sense when Comfort no longer exists.
This can be circularly discussed for days, if not weeks, without a consensus being reached. This is the kind of map that I really felt only really needed some polishing mods and moving into ranking, disagreements about the concept be damned. It's pointless unless there is a light at the end of the tunnel, which the current mapping climate has convinced me does not exist.
People will simply take down this map with opinions they've spent ten minutes scrounging off the floor whilst "modding" the map because "DQ for discussion" is the most retarded piece of shit rule I've ever seen. I had literally five motherfucking minutes to formulate a response to Natsu before the disqualification - where the fuck is the sense of "discussion" there? it just seems like people are trying to throw their weight around.
ah, I'm watching the feedback from other players, I do not know if you're ignoring because of bad mods, or unnecessary quotes, or ignorance on their part, finally I'm doing a mod in my point of view, that can really improve (if you want).
Discomfort
Anyway joking aside, you realize how much of mods you can get? damn, at a time like, it was for your map is RANKED, but because of their many arguments to keep some conflicts, it is so obvious, it is clear that this proportion reached where your map takes more than 2 dq, it's funny .. I do not know if most of the mods it was by own will (like mine) members, or it was by pv, #modreqs, etc. If by own will can be sure that the intention of the more experienced to less experienced, was exactly help you solve it, so just take it in mind.
ah I spent 1-2 hours to see these small conflicts and explain
Have a good night!
Extra
- 00:14:978 (1) - you could give stack with 00:14:561 (7) - reinforces the steady rhythm that will come, besides being no-aesthetic without her location, right?
- I think that the distance from the end of 00:15:499 (4) - to the 00:15:811 (5) - is high but I believe that the overlap of them are pretty ugly i can give a suggestion: http://puu.sh/oEkCm.jpg
- 00:15:811 (5,6) - can be symetrical?
- 00:16:436 (3) - kinda.. obvious to fix the distance of that note in relation to the others, right?
- 00:16:853 (1) - i think you can replace for 2 sliders 1/4 with reverse, for more emphasis? Bring more energy > http://puu.sh/oEl93.jpg.
- 00:17:270 (3,4,6) - recently, a map has taken dq, precisely because of the overlap of these notes, the better fix before someone report this and be the cause of a future dq.
- 00:18:311 (1,2) - ok, its a really high distance of 1/2 144 bpm(sound like a slow beat) rythm.
- 00:18:103 (6) - replace for 2 single notes, to emphasis this part. ( hear 00:18:103 - 00:18:207 - )
- 00:23:520 (1) - you can remove reverse arrow e add 3 notes to emphasize?
- 00:30:186 (6) - same^
- 00:29:145 (5) - ah.. thats tense, particularly you could change the direction of this to not be retarded.
- 00:31:332 (3) - same thing about this 00:18:103 (6) -
- 00:45:811 (4,1) - sounds like a discomfort pattern, too distant? i don't know.
- 00:47:061 (4,5) - eeh. ds beetween this notes its high to 1/4 selection( i know, its 144 bpm).
- 00:47:895 (7,8) - ^ same
- 00:54:978 (1) - i guess this slider fit better be 1/2 and not 1/1
- you can replace this 1/4 triples ( 01:18:520 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - ) for something like that http://puu.sh/oEmSM.jpg
- 01:16:124 (3,1) - suggestion > http://puu.sh/oEn45.jpg
- 01:28:103 (8) - nc here for alert this 1/4 jump.
- 01:28:624 - you miss a strong beat here.
- 01:31:332 (2,1) - This Distance beetween this notes its ankward higher. ( you have a nice argument to keep it? haha)
- 01:35:395 (3,4) - ^ same.
- 01:37:270 (2,1) - ^
- 01:37:478 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - this notes It seems to have been placed randomly. you can make "shiirn cooler triangles" on this part http://puu.sh/oEnIk.jpg
- Alternatively titled "Shiirn's Experiments With Blanketing!" .
- 00:01:645 (1,5) -
- 00:07:895 (5,1,5) -
- 00:17:165 (1,4) -
- 00:29:145 (5,3) -
- 00:36:089 (5,6) -
- 01:44:561 (2,1,5) -
- 01:52:686 (2,1) -
- First and foremost, the question I have to ask is: Why do you have this difficulty? Your extra is
perfectlyfunctional and stresses the upper limits of what difficulty this song can bring. And above all,your extra is good. I don't see the point in having a special overkill difficulty that's basically the extra except with all the knobs turned up.
Anyway joking aside, you realize how much of mods you can get? damn, at a time like, it was for your map is RANKED, but because of their many arguments to keep some conflicts, it is so obvious, it is clear that this proportion reached where your map takes more than 2 dq, it's funny .. I do not know if most of the mods it was by own will (like mine) members, or it was by pv, #modreqs, etc. If by own will can be sure that the intention of the more experienced to less experienced, was exactly help you solve it, so just take it in mind.
Have a good night!
You do know that the set isnt going for rank anymore.
Discomfort was also a troll diff, but as added on since people liked it.
I don't get what's wrong with this. Why was it DQ'd? This is perfectly playable (albeit insanely hard) and it's even well done.
opinions were shotShiro wrote:
I don't get what's wrong with this. Why was it DQ'd? This is perfectly playable (albeit insanely hard) and it's even well done.
Topic Starter
Ongaku, I renamed Comfort to Discomfort when I readded it. Current Discomfort = Post-DQ Comfort.
WwwwwwwwShiirn wrote:
Ongaku, I renamed Comfort to Discomfort when I readded it. Current Discomfort = Post-DQ Comfort.
I got trolled
Topic Starter
And for anyone not in the know, Kalindraz' discomfort thing was basically a copy-paste of my mod on xexxar's my hero diff.
And I'm not going to bother going over every individual note presented because fuck that. 01:37:478 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - are also basically random but blanketed on purpose, what's the problem with that? I will look over the blanket issues but giving a glance over what you've linked i can safely say 90% of it is denied as this map is long beyond accepting completely remapped patterns given to me as "suggestions" because that shit is what ruined it in the first place.
And I'm not going to bother going over every individual note presented because fuck that. 01:37:478 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - are also basically random but blanketed on purpose, what's the problem with that? I will look over the blanket issues but giving a glance over what you've linked i can safely say 90% of it is denied as this map is long beyond accepting completely remapped patterns given to me as "suggestions" because that shit is what ruined it in the first place.
So you guys are still going to rank this, or you will continue doing useless post, If so I'm there in game, you can poke me anytime.Ongaku wrote:
You do know that the set isnt going for rank anymore.Discomfort was also a troll diff, but as added on since people liked it.
Edit: ew, my post have little to do qith the DQ, the main issue was Elvis post, I think you adress that as well already no? I just want to go via irc over minor stuff to polish the looking of your map.
About the 7 stars diff, that diff wasn't there when the map got qualify so I don't know what you want to get with having it there, if you want to qualify with it go ahead.
Topic Starter
all you gotta do is make your list on extra of changes for me to do and make the verdict that you want comfort deleted in return for an icon
i see no reason to walk behind the curtain and discuss things when clearly the chance for discussing or presenting my opinions is long gone, because as long as you disagree, you will have this map DQ'd by listing a handful of bullshit reasons and ask for it to be DQ'd before i even get the chance to respond
don't try to say otherwise, elvis' post was literally 2 half-assed opinions and one "well i kind of think this is wrong". This DQ was borderline abusive and you know it full well.
say your piece and I'll do whatever you want because that's what I'm basically forced to do. You clearly know better than I do how to map my own map.
i see no reason to walk behind the curtain and discuss things when clearly the chance for discussing or presenting my opinions is long gone, because as long as you disagree, you will have this map DQ'd by listing a handful of bullshit reasons and ask for it to be DQ'd before i even get the chance to respond
don't try to say otherwise, elvis' post was literally 2 half-assed opinions and one "well i kind of think this is wrong". This DQ was borderline abusive and you know it full well.
say your piece and I'll do whatever you want because that's what I'm basically forced to do. You clearly know better than I do how to map my own map.
Well Shiirn if you gonna keep that attitude then go ahead and look for anyone else, I'm done here, you aren't a kid anymore and we can talk the stuff with calm, you are not forced to do nothing or fix nothing, but to reply and explain your mapping with manners in a polite way, also stop making like your map will change for moving 3 rhythms at elvis post and fixing some visual things that don't require to make your map different, but looking better,you know this well so I don't know why the big deal with this.
Anyways I'll be there on IRC willing to help you if you change your mind.
Anyways I'll be there on IRC willing to help you if you change your mind.
Topic Starter
Clarified things in my usual completely barbaric and offensive way. Small changes are small, but they add up like crazy when I'm not promised any sort of forward movement. Okoratu mentioned before, I'm forced with bad positions because I've had to sew together suggestions from a dozen places and now any further ones are just more problems to the fire. It's not that the suggestions being made are unreasonable, nor that i am being unreasonable for not accepting them, but that there are so many, so many conflicting suggestions that it's impossible to satisfy everyone so I just want to stick to at least satisfying myself.
Discussed with the mapper we moved stuff in Extra, like fixing alot of blankets, some stacks, things in my mod were adressed and the last thing we are waiting is a disccusion in: p/5092844#p5092844 So we can maybe rank this with the previously removed 7* diff, positive things can be archive with DQ, so you guys should always take some minutes for think and look for a talk about the problem instead of discussing useless stuff.
Anyways if you want to add something about the current disussion that is the spread , feel free to do it, we need all the posible opinions to find an agreement, just as remember we disscusing about the spread now.
Anyways if you want to add something about the current disussion that is the spread , feel free to do it, we need all the posible opinions to find an agreement, just as remember we disscusing about the spread now.
Specifically talking about the Extra -> Comfort spread, I think it works fine as is. The SR formula doesn't work as well for alt-based maps, and in this case both the spacing and rhythm increase by a fair amount but not too drastically and works fine as a second and highest difficulty.
(side note: ...I got further on Comfort than Extra what is going on there hahah)
Extra to Insane is only a spacing difference since the density of notes is almost the same but the spacing is a fair amount lower and the density doesn't need to be lowered for an insane-level.
Lower diffs are SR-wise good so I'll assume they are fair because too lazy to check \o/
tl;dr Extra to Comfort works as an actual good step up despite SR
(edit: gg didnt see the thread link)
(side note: ...I got further on Comfort than Extra what is going on there hahah)
Extra to Insane is only a spacing difference since the density of notes is almost the same but the spacing is a fair amount lower and the density doesn't need to be lowered for an insane-level.
Lower diffs are SR-wise good so I'll assume they are fair because too lazy to check \o/
tl;dr Extra to Comfort works as an actual good step up despite SR
(edit: gg didnt see the thread link)
Curious, how much has Comfort difficulty changed since map's creation?
Also, do these timing points do anything in the difficulty?
Also, do these timing points do anything in the difficulty?
they change the slider velocityShiguma wrote:
Curious, how much has Comfort difficulty changed since map's creation?
Also, do these timing points do anything in the difficulty?
Mazziv wrote:
they change the slider velocity
Volume change, got it.
then its the volume that changesShiguma wrote:
But it's a spinnerMazziv wrote:
they change the slider velocity
Topic Starter
Shiguma wrote:
Curious, how much has Comfort difficulty changed since map's creation?
Also, do these timing points do anything in the difficulty?
I made the slider velocity match the volume because I'm a funny guy. Also, Comfort has changed in a lot of small ways but mostly in ones that actually follow my vision of the song, unlike Extra. What people don't seem to understand is that I'm not actually that good a mapper. My first drafts suck and it's only after self-modding for a while that the maps git gud
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpGKPmZ0Pl0Shiirn wrote:
I'm a funny guy.
So, in your opinion Extra is nothing like it used to be?