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Camellia - Routing

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Topic Starter
Shiirn

Yauxo wrote:

(I dont care if you try to defend your map, just dont act like it's perfect)
I never said it was perfect. I've applied many mods just today. Most people I've spoken to like the map a lot, just a vocal minority like to find any reason to dislike the map.

Most pro player input I have gotten is that it plays very well for the most part and any parts that feel directly unfair as opposed to challenging are being found and weeded out.

The raw aesthetic rule of " you need to make sure no notes overlap and the map has the exact same style the entire map" is not going to happen here. If you want it to happen here, you're looking for the wrong map. Having a stringent rule of "sliders need to point directly at the next note or it is ugly" is just as silly. If you want to say "its all just a god damn mess" then have fun. I won't accept "change it because it looks bad" as a mod.

Most of the input I've gotten since the disqualification has been "shit from the thread, value from in-game". The people that are speaking their mind in this thread without giving specific advice (or are telling me I mapped a section wrong because they'd do it differently and refuse to see any sort of alternative) are completely useless. The people who chat with me in-game and discuss actual pattern shape and flow are far more valuable. As such, I'm going to give them the attention they deserve.



I'm going to go over Comfort with a very fine toothed comb over the next day while seeking (and going over already posted) input from people whom I know aren't just making shit up because they vaguely find the map disagreeable. After that, I'm going to work back towards qualification. If it gets DQ'd again, so be it. I will not be fillibustered out of ranking something I know is not just rankable, but pretty good. And Comfort is pretty good. It's nowhere near perfect, but perfect is unobtainable as there will always be people who think it should be different.
riffy
Remember to keep discussion civil. Cleaning up the thread for now.
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Anxient wrote:

box
comfortable not really

things i hope you applied
00:11:228 (2,1) - putting this downwards http://puu.sh/n86KM/77af9d0dc1.jpg, coz its a flowbreak worthy part and has similar rhythm as 00:10:915 (1,2) -

the actual check
00:13:936 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - #i_shouldnt_have_shown_xxr_routing
00:15:290 (2) - move this further away from 3 because 3 has a strong beat, so its better to have 2 stick to regular distance and have 3 be extended for emphasis. http://puu.sh/n86UW/c3964ccd29.jpg Sure, why not. If i get people bitching "but muh spacing it should be equal" they can kiss my ass
00:15:707 (5,6) - these notes are nearly touching lol which are an not-ok in my book. to fix this i moved 00:15:499 (4,5) - to 373:367. also grants extra emphasis for 00:15:811 (6) - http://puu.sh/n875y/ddf0baceab.jpg the reason they're close to begin with was because someone was whining "muh equal spacing" but screw those guys. moved over a bit.
00:16:749 (4,1) - stack lol how the hell do you people find these 1-pixel stack issues
00:17:270 (2,1) - maybe fix the blanket on sliderend? http://puu.sh/n878Q/fddeb9667c.jpg i tried
00:20:395 (1,2,3,4) - maybe have these follow the same DS you used for 00:19:353 (1,2) - coz the part isnt very emphasized. like the beats are soft. heck, 00:19:353 (1,2) - this part is more emphasized actually lol. have a really bad fix http://puu.sh/n87mu/2e0d4444c2.jpg lowered the spacing a bit but honestly whatever
00:20:811 (1,2,3) - honestly i cant think of any reason as to why you made the part... like this lol there are no beats to represent those 5/8 sliders. i choose to attack this part coz this a major part (and not minor either lol like those sliderends being hitcircles and shortening sliders). using this rhythm wouldve done just fine http://puu.sh/n87Gy/8a6d140228.jpg. you can do your fancy curve sliders using some SV altering but pls change this part. (incase you dont wanna redo these sliders, using SV 1.5x would do just fine (might be disorienting but hey this map is confusing as it is already LOLOLOL) Not doing this. These three sliders heavily emphasize the wubs and encourage the player to hold the beat very hard, as well as alternate. This map tries very hard to be single-tap friendly while trying to encourage alternating in places like this, where I want to have buttons held down for longer than just short taps. At 25% you might feel like they're not entirely accurate but at any higher speed they fit very well! Also, they're 3/8 buddy :U
00:22:686 (1) - ctrl g this lol i dont see a reason as to why you used a flow break. flow is extremely important in double bpm maps (but im sure you knew that) Gameplay wise there is literally no difference and i wanted the swap in clockwise-counterclockwise to emphasize the wubs, but if people start throwing that scary 'flow' buzz word around i better line the fuck up right?
00:22:686 (1,2) - also fix sliderblanket http://puu.sh/n87U0/41fd3a1ff9.jpg did with zexous' help
00:23:311 (3,4,1) - i was wondering what was wrong with this part lol. use the same DS. i dont see why its different (lower even), especially when it has more sounds in it fiddled a bit
00:24:665 (2) - if i were to put a flow break in this part i wouldve done it in 00:24:561 (1) - instead of 00:24:665 (2) - lol but since you did neither, ill just go ahead and tell you to make this part super flowy http://puu.sh/n888j/0dbde249f9.jpg I mean except for the abuse of the word 'flow' i don't really see the point in this but i should pretend to actually care about this, but since it has no gameplay impact whatever let's do it
00:26:020 (1) - ctrl g this for emphasis (well it players better when i was simulating it) 00:26:228 (1) - also gives this the extra kick :l Nope. One of the stringent rules of this track is that 1/8 = very close, overlapping or almost overlapped spacing. Not going to break it exactly once.
00:27:061 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - i dont understand all the hate in this part lol Haters should just be glad I didn't actually map every individual beat in the music here.
00:28:832 (4,5,6) - 5 is in the wrong spot lol. do this instead http://puu.sh/n892L/d476e3034b.jpg I'll do it but i mean im sure some idiot is going to say 'muh flow' or 'muh spacing'. I think either way works fairly fine due to how the synth and bass work out.
00:31:645 (7) - ctrl g coz it makes the other parts more fun to play imo 00:31:853 (1) - Don't see the point. if it's reversed then we have 'anti-flow' because the cursor has to go even more distance. idk don't ask me to explain what flow is ur just a bad mapper blah blah etc.
00:31:645 (7) - also NC ths i dont know why this is continue combo
00:31:853 (1,1) - same goes for here. why NC :l http://puu.sh/n88AX/4931ca3994.jpg I have always new combod the 3/8 sliders that emphasize the intermittent interjections of interesting instruments.
00:32:686 (1,2,3,4) - if anything i would have this stream go down lol because theres nothing in the song that suggests a upward stream (and the stream is nearly vertical so this would be appropriate with some really strong increasing pitch) The direction really doesn't matter. It really, really doesn't unless it's clear you're using volume as a model for where you're aiming a section. These are four notes and they just happen to go upwards. It's not implying that the pitch or volume go up or down. Not every note or pattern needs to have a deep underlying meaning behind it.
00:40:186 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - i dont understand why people hate this part too lol i mean it creats pretty good buildup :l I've only ever seen people think it's either "pretty good" or "fucking amazing". I've only seen people whine about it once it got qualified. That's mapping for you.
00:47:374 (3) - i dont think its a good idea to use a sliderend to emphasize a strong beat. It's not emphasizing a strong beat. The strong beat just happens to be on the end because here I am mapping that high pitched unidentifiable instrument rather than purely the bass.
00:57:061 (2,3,4,5) - id prefer if you ctrl g'd (as in reverse the position of slider start coz i dont understand why you put the flowbreak here other than the finishes. if you wanna keep this, okay but this looks really painful to play. what? these bouncy bits play amazing, ive not seen a single person dislike it and that includes the haters, even the most staunch of haters said they liked these
00:59:978 (1,2) - lemao overlap palrevo oamel
01:03:311 (1,2,3,4,5) - this part is fine tho. its cool. this is literally the exact same as the other one except rotated 180 degrees
01:33:103 (5) - ctrl g this lol why flowbreak This is changing direction so that the impulse to leap to the next start doesn't lead to the player 100ing the slider. It's for gameplay. Sliderballs don't need to constantly go in the same general direction. That's not how flow works...
pls no unfriend
Arphimigon
Hi o/
Take this as more of a post for discussion, not really a mod (hence the longer than normal lines at the start)
I'm narrowing this post down to Comfort only for now.

We spoke about some things in public chat a few hours ago, so I'm going to repeat that for the sake of discussion, elaborate, and then move on to regular stuff.

The general idea was that at 50% or slower speeds, the map makes a lot of sense due to lots of the beats being placed on sounds at that speed. At 100%, or even 75%, it is much less understandable, as there is less of a focus on the "obvious" instruments that you'll hear on that speed and still a focus on the sounds at 50% or slower. This ultimately leads to an extremely confusing experience for most, and for the others who can play the map at that speed, more of a "just click notes" instead of "click to the music" kind of difficulty.
That being said, this map is technically not overmapped. It just feels like so much more at a higher speed than a smaller one, again due to the full speed of the song highlighting various different instruments compared to at slower speeds.
Let me go see if I can find any good examples:
00:26:645 (3) - (this is barely audible even on 25% so at 100% its basically nothing)
00:30:603 - This seems like 1/3 between there and 00:30:811 -
00:49:665 (4,5,6) - These are very weak sounds and seem much nicer represented as sliders+slider ends, perhaps the first slider starting at 00:49:561 - so this clap isn't also a slider end. That way there isn't so much pressure on near inaudible sounds but still maps to them.
00:52:790 (2) - What if i told you there was no sound here? even on 25%, this 00:52:686 (1,2,3) - should actually be 1/3, so a reverse slider or 1/3 burst would make more sense.
01:01:332 (1,2) - On a faster speed, it makes more sense to continue to go along with the instrument highlighted just before at 00:59:978 (1,2,3,4) - instead of this very VERY hard to hear sound at 01:01:436 (2) - . If you made 01:01:332 (1) - a 1/2 slider and a note placed at 01:01:540 - instead, you have a more understandable rhythm at higher speeds, since it continues with the same, very powerful instrument, but you also highlight 01:01:540 - this sound which is being missed because of a really inaudible slider.
01:08:589 (3,4,5,1) - This whole part seems like a gray area, because it's hard to make sense of even in slower OR higher speeds. I see you mapped the 1/3 though which is good, however after the snaps become almost un-understandable. To me, at fullspeed the only obvious sounds I hear are every 1/2, so no 01:08:884 - I think that if you skip this sound and add a few small 1/2 jumps, it'll make the momentum gained from the last sliders go away more gradually.
01:18:520 (1,2,3) - Is this mapped to any actual beats? I can understand it being mapped because of the high pitched... scream like sound idk but it seems like plain rhythmical overmap at a higher speed because there arent actually any sounds on 01:18:572 - or 01:18:624 -
01:30:117 (2) - On 25% or 50% this is perfect, but on higher speeds it just SOUNDS like there are more sounds... you know... idk actually.
01:31:853 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - This must be mapped to something barely existant because it doesn't feel like any of these are mapped to sounds that I can hear. However if they are, the pressure of them doesn't need to be so high, so if you decide to keep them can you tone down the spacing?
01:33:936 - Perhaps make this a clickable sound? It completely fits the section here and what you have mapped circles to.
00:27:061 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2) - Rechecking over previous parts, on higher speeds only the start of these sliders are audible. I'd try turning them into notes and seeing how you can hear it.
The end 20 secs are sweeeeeeeeeet

Extra things I'd like to point out (in more of a mod-style)
00:02:999 (4) - All of the sounds like this honestly feel dulled down because the end is a slider end. I mean every single one. Why can't the ends be high spaced notes? It fits the sound and hitsounding perfectly, and doesn't fit a slider end at all! If you want to keep the holds, well technically the holds end 1/2 later, like at 00:03:103 - It may be hard to implement them on every slider like this, but just consider it.
00:08:103 (7,8,1) - Perhaps space the slider to emphasise the finish and strong sound?
00:14:561 (3) - Perhaps NC this like you NCed every second object in this pattern? Having it end on a 3 is weird.
00:20:811 (1,2,3) - Having the same slider for all these three sounds doesn't seem fitting. The first two is okay, but the last sounds way different. If you kept the first two sliders how they are then perhaps make the last curve a bit more open, it'd portray the vocals nicer.
00:34:145 (6,1) - This low spacing hurts after all the momentum gained from 00:33:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
00:39:145 (1,2,3) - The flow AND spacing from slider 1 to slider 2 is MUCH harder and more pressuring than from slider 2 to slider 3, however that last slider should be the most pressurised due to being on a downbeat AND having the highest pitch during a sound which gets more intense!
01:02:895 (1,2,1) - Plainly put the flow here feels really odd xd
01:16:228 (4,5,6,7) - I had mentioned this before, but technically speaking, making the first two jumps have higher spacing than the second would fit the pitches more. And since you have mapped a few spacings to pitches early on, it makes sense to do so here (01:14:353 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - like here where every part gets slightly harder and more pressured)

While I'm posting I hope to clear up two misconceptions for some people:
1) Nope, this map isn't overmapped. Actually, it's done quite well tbh. If anything it looks like how I'd map it, but with more curves and density.
2) This isn't mapped for difficulty, this could be mapped so much harder and still be justified.

With that being said, I do disagree with lots of flows in the map, but this is just a personal bias to how I'd map it, so it isn't worth saying here.

gl with re-ranking!
If you wanna talk about any of this in more detail I'm open to pm.
phaZ
basically just 5 things or something like that
2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: picking randomly on some things in your comfort diff if you wouldnt mind
2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/902982 Camellia - Routing [Comfort]]
2016-02-14 22:52 Shiirn: sure
2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: 00:52:061 (2,3,4,5) -
2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: how about
2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: the two sliders first
2016-02-14 22:53 phaZ: you can feel the wubs way better then imo
2016-02-14 22:53 phaZ: or
2016-02-14 22:53 phaZ: if you consider the metallophone or whatever it is
2016-02-14 22:53 phaZ: slider+2xcircle+slider ?
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: atm is 2circle2slider
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: u suggest
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: slider-2circle-slider?
2016-02-14 22:54 phaZ: yea
2016-02-14 22:54 phaZ: i would definitely start with a slider at least
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: true cuz atm 00:52:270 (4) - has two significant beats
2016-02-14 22:54 phaZ: as the wub sound you here
2016-02-14 22:54 phaZ: is not that strong
2016-02-14 22:55 phaZ: but a wubby slider fits
2016-02-14 22:55 phaZ: _D
2016-02-14 22:55 Shiirn: yeah
2016-02-14 22:56 phaZ: 00:59:561 (1,2) - ctrlg these?
2016-02-14 22:56 phaZ: 00:59:457 (9,1) -
2016-02-14 22:56 phaZ: atm this
2016-02-14 22:56 phaZ: really kicks me out
2016-02-14 22:57 phaZ: suddenly zic zac
2016-02-14 22:57 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 22:57 Shiirn: thats a tough one
2016-02-14 22:58 Shiirn: i think ill leave cuz otherwise you need to jump awkwardly from 1 to 2
2016-02-14 23:00 Shiirn: feel free to continue
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: yea
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: im just looking
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: and trying for better ways^^
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: 01:08:832 (4) -
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: this is wrong ryhthm
2016-02-14 23:01 phaZ: its still 1/6
2016-02-14 23:01 phaZ: 01:08:728 (3,4) -
2016-02-14 23:02 Shiirn: there the dj scratch is hard to map
2016-02-14 23:02 phaZ: nah i really am 100% sure
2016-02-14 23:03 Shiirn: no like
2016-02-14 23:03 Shiirn: im sure the timing isnt right for dj scratch
2016-02-14 23:03 Shiirn: but at 100%
2016-02-14 23:03 Shiirn: it doesnt matter to player cuz slider and its hard af to read if its off rhythm
2016-02-14 23:03 phaZ: :D ok
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: 01:09:561 (3) - make it start 1/8 later maybe?
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: and get a circle there insteead
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: to have it at least on the bass thing
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: eh
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: 1/4 later
2016-02-14 23:06 phaZ: or just dont mind
2016-02-14 23:09 phaZ: 01:32:478 (1) -
2016-02-14 23:09 phaZ: make this a repeat to get the scratch feeling :D?
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: hi uhh
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: ACTION looks
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: would be super hard to play
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: ctrl+g instead
2016-02-14 23:15 phaZ: 01:29:978 (1) - make this a triplet like 01:28:415 (1,2,3) - or 01:35:082 (1,2,3) -
2016-02-14 23:15 phaZ: so that 01:30:186 (2) -
2016-02-14 23:16 phaZ: can start earlier
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: ooo
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: that makes it REALLY hard
2016-02-14 23:16 phaZ: i mean
2016-02-14 23:16 phaZ: like
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: or do you mean
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: 1/8 circle-circle-slider
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: for wub
2016-02-14 23:17 phaZ: http://puu.sh/n84XB/047eccf68c.jpg
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: mmmmm that's
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: ACTION thinks
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: lemme try it
2016-02-14 23:17 phaZ: because the wub slider feels too off imo
2016-02-14 23:17 phaZ: it shoudld actually start on the white tick
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: it makes for a really long slider hold
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: feels weird in kiai
2016-02-14 23:18 phaZ: make it lincrease sv lolol
2016-02-14 23:19 Shiirn: think ill pass on that one
2016-02-14 23:19 phaZ: well ok http://puu.sh/n858m/eeb6e67e84.jpg
2016-02-14 23:19 Shiirn: ill think about it, tho
2016-02-14 23:19 phaZ: pictuer anyway :p
2016-02-14 23:22 phaZ: 00:02:999 (4) -
2016-02-14 23:22 Shiirn: hi
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: did you make long slider because music is stopping?
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: so you dont have anything to click?
2016-02-14 23:23 Shiirn: yes
2016-02-14 23:23 Shiirn: because it is big pause
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: mmm
2016-02-14 23:23 Shiirn: so i didnt want a click on the end
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: meh
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: what i think is flawesd there
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: is that
2016-02-14 23:24 phaZ: 00:01:957 (2,3) - this is actually the same compared to that
2016-02-14 23:24 phaZ: the you use that slider here again 00:01:645 (1) -
2016-02-14 23:24 phaZ: as it were the same music pattern
2016-02-14 23:24 phaZ: *but then you use that slider..
2016-02-14 23:25 Shiirn: the end of 00:02:999 (4) - is a bass hit
2016-02-14 23:25 Shiirn: but i can see the point
2016-02-14 23:25 phaZ: would rather have it not the same way as the sliders before
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: it feels tome like
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: when you have a good pattern
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: but on redticks
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: when music is white
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: kind of that
2016-02-14 23:27 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 23:31 phaZ: 01:26:020 (1,2) - why 1/8 sliders here o.o?
2016-02-14 23:32 Shiirn: cuz there is side of drum hits there but i dont want a 5-note 1/8
2016-02-14 23:33 phaZ: ahhh
2016-02-14 23:33 phaZ: ok
2016-02-14 23:33 phaZ: i didnt notice
2016-02-14 23:36 phaZ: still
2016-02-14 23:36 phaZ: think
2016-02-14 23:36 phaZ: a slider like the one after wards i still more fitting
2016-02-14 23:36 phaZ: because the sound
2016-02-14 23:37 phaZ: which you also can here at 00:27:061 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
2016-02-14 23:37 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 23:37 Shiirn: i suppose. ill need to think about it
2016-02-14 23:37 phaZ: it feels too interrupted to me
2016-02-14 23:38 phaZ: if you map the drum snare thing there
2016-02-14 23:38 phaZ: well thats it
2016-02-14 23:38 phaZ: or i am not good enough to judge other flow things :3
i think ill look again into comfort and other diffs too in 4h
Froslass
modpost is 30% ready, so this means i will have to finish it
expect it sometime tomorrow, please wait for me
CXu

Shiirn wrote:

Yauxo wrote:

(I dont care if you try to defend your map, just dont act like it's perfect)
I never said it was perfect. I've applied many mods just today. Most people I've spoken to like the map a lot, just a vocal minority like to find any reason to dislike the map.

Most pro player input I have gotten is that it plays very well for the most part and any parts that feel directly unfair as opposed to challenging are being found and weeded out.

The raw aesthetic rule of " you need to make sure no notes overlap and the map has the exact same style the entire map" is not going to happen here. If you want it to happen here, you're looking for the wrong map. Having a stringent rule of "sliders need to point directly at the next note or it is ugly" is just as silly. If you want to say "its all just a god damn mess" then have fun. I won't accept "change it because it looks bad" as a mod.

Most of the input I've gotten since the disqualification has been "shit from the thread, value from in-game". The people that are speaking their mind in this thread without giving specific advice (or are telling me I mapped a section wrong because they'd do it differently and refuse to see any sort of alternative) are completely useless. The people who chat with me in-game and discuss actual pattern shape and flow are far more valuable. As such, I'm going to give them the attention they deserve.



I'm going to go over Comfort with a very fine toothed comb over the next day while seeking (and going over already posted) input from people whom I know aren't just making shit up because they vaguely find the map disagreeable. After that, I'm going to work back towards qualification. If it gets DQ'd again, so be it. I will not be fillibustered out of ranking something I know is not just rankable, but pretty good. And Comfort is pretty good. It's nowhere near perfect, but perfect is unobtainable as there will always be people who think it should be different.
Not that I ever said you had to do any of those things. It's possible to make tasteful overlaps. It's possible to transition between styles without making it feel jarring (not that I even see that much of a style change in your diff in general). Doesn't change the fact that I don't think the map looks good though. But hey, since I dislike the map my input is completely useless anyway I guess? Yeah, I'm not modding it, because from the way you reply to these things I don't think you'd like/want my input anyway nor do I think you would agree with most of them. In the end it would just be me saying a bunch of things, and you rejecting it.

Still, I don't think writing opinions is useless. Maybe you do, but eh.
Kite
I don't mind you rejecting suggestions or feedback, since it's totally up to you what you do with your map, however...
Don't be disrespectful towards people that show criticism or negative feedback towards your map, because those type of remarks help you work out better solutions that still alligns with your initial idea, thus strengthening the foundation you can work with.
Criticism and negative feedback may actually be more valueable than people sugarcoating everything you do.

Anyways, good luck with your map!
Topic Starter
Shiirn

CXu wrote:

Still, I don't think writing opinions is useless. Maybe you do, but eh.
I've replied to every actual mod with thought-out responses and a lot of acceptance. I don't understand where you get the idea that I deny all feedback. I just don't accept feedback that doesn't have actual suggestions. It's easy to say "this is ugly". It takes actual work to say "this is ugly to me because...".
WORSTPOLACKEU
I just want to point out.

00:17:478 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
Extremely awkward to play.
You can for example ctrl-g 00:17:895 (3,4) - those and it's much better.
I have played this part so many times and I still can't get it straight because the pattern is overshadowed by the most distinct sound.

00:44:665 (5,1) - This flow is very weird, and the next note is just spaced but is the same, I would ctrl-g 00:44:770 (1) - .

00:48:520 (5) - Why is it placed like that.

00:51:645 (4,5,1) - This pattern is really awkward situated, pattern before it is different and there is no change to the song really but the movement required is not jumpy anymore, it's linear and it makes it very weird to play.

00:54:874 (7,1,2,3) - This looks like you placed random notes to a different song, flow and rhythm is terror

01:05:395 (4,5,6,7) - :/ even the whole pattern 01:05:395 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - is just weird.

01:18:936 (1,2,3) - I think I hear 1/6 rhythm. Also 01:19:040 (3,4,5) - spacing increases when the song goes down. 01:32:895 (4,5) - Same here, why so?

01:20:915 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - This doesn't play as well as the one before it, the tones are not fit for this pattern.

01:23:311 (5) - looks like a dick xdddd
01:23:728 (1) - and this would be balls I guess

01:28:103 (3,4) - slider first then white tick note please

01:29:040 (6,7,1) - Stuff like this in the map makes it awkward to play at many places, the flow is just off.

01:32:270 (6,1) - Blanket.

01:32:895 (4) - I would ctrl-g

01:33:311 (1,2) - This just doesn't go well, why such big spacing? At some points it feels like you are spacing the map way higher than it should be and then when something special comes when imo you should increase it, you decrease it.


01:34:874 (4) - I don't like this one, ends at big white tick and that doesn't work that well, why not go 3 sliders in a row and a single tap at the end to accentuate the big white tick?

01:35:082 (1,2,3) - The sound at your triple is not a triple also you just jump towards 01:35:395 (4,5,6) - .
Mapping to different rhythms in one combo, don't know if that's a good idea.

01:17:478 (1,2) - Why not slider on white tick and note on red? It fits so much better.



xd
phaZ
[comfort]
did some consistency check now
  1. 00:04:978 (4) - phrase starts here again so put NC here too, RNC at 00:05:395 (1) then
  2. 00:05:707 (4) - you might nc this, too like you did at 00:02:374 (1)
  3. 00:09:040 (5) and 00:09:561 (1) - different NC'ing again. although the first time the phrase is ending abruptly, i still recommend to keep them the same (just seems the most logical then to me)
  4. 01:51:957 (2,3) - ^ different NC'ing in the last part too ;w;
  5. 00:04:249 (1,2) - how it comes that so different from 00:10:915 (1,2) ?
  6. 00:12:374 (5) - NC issue like above
  7. 00:20:082 - shouldnt there be a wubbly slider here?
  8. 00:19:353 (1) - and 00:32:686 (1,2,3,4) - sounds actually similiar (and this sound is on the same spot in the repetition) if you remove your hitsounds. so make it the same too? this is a structure issue in ther way that, as a player you wont notice that it's actually the same again (thus map feels more random)
  9. 00:16:020 (1) - not as important but its a different style compared to 00:22:686 (1) - but why tho
  10. 00:17:270 (2) - where are my 1/6? (compare to 00:23:936 (2,3,4,5) - at the repetition). on a second note NC'ing is different here again but the music making differences here too so yea
  11. 00:33:311 (3) - 1/1 is really bad. the jumps and NC should start at the sliderend. anyway it is completely different mapped to 00:20:186 (6,1,2,3,4)
  12. 00:48:311 (4) - slider is off the synth, at 00:47:374 (3) you acrificed the strong drum to get the slider togethere with the synth. you basically did it all the time before so its kinda suprising to get off the synth-line/track here. make it like at 00:51:853 (1) (altough thats not exactly the repetition but it has the same rhythm)
  13. 00:55:186 (2) - ctrl+g would flow waaay better. also i think pursuing the previous pattern is out of place as the music changes here
  14. 00:56:228 (4) - where are your 1/8 drum following sliders now huh^^ (see 01:26:020 (1,2) - mentioned in IRC). i still think you should remove hte 1/8 sliders at the second time tho^^
  15. 00:55:968 - ^ same as above, add your 1/8 stream here then?
  16. 00:59:561 (1,2) - ctrl+g, still think it would flow awesome :D
  17. 01:01:436 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) - why not some scratch-mapping like at repetition at 01:08:311 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3)
  18. 01:01:645 (3) - anyway this finish is on wrong spot it should be at 01:01:540 - i think this additional finish sounds awesome tho, so maybe instead add one at the repetition also missing out the finish at 01:02:999 -
  19. 01:08:520 (2) - finish should be here like at ^
  20. 01:14:249 (6,1) - dafuq o.o? this should be like at 01:20:915 (1,2)
  21. 01:22:895 (1) - you didnt NC at 01:16:228 (4) tho
  22. 01:28:207 (4) - here you sacrifice the strong drum to follow the vocals, 01:27:374 (5,6) - here you didnt do this exactly :?
  23. 01:29:353 (1) - even tho the vocals are having a kind of a break here i think it is still more appropriate to make the NC at 01:29:561 (2) at the white tick/beginning of vocals (if even a NC is needed at all). i actually would make 2xcircle+2xslider at 01:29:353 (1,2,3,4) - (instead of the current 2xslider+2xcircle rhythm)
  24. 01:35:915 (1,2,3,4) - please make NC'ing and maybe similiar rhythm too (2xcircle+slider+circle) like at ^. this is again almost a repetition.
  25. 01:30:811 (4,5,6,7) - i know what youre are going for here but, this looks very similiar mapped when you followed the vocals, so when youre playing you also expect that. use a more different looking pattern here pls :s
  26. 01:48:832 (3) - isnt this slider like completely wring here? sounds like this to me: http://puu.sh/n90ca/202f3329c4.jpg ((5,6) are on 1/12 snap if you wanna map them)
  27. 01:49:353 (7) - NC here? theme is coming back again after that jazz like piano shout-in. you also did sth similiar at 01:50:915 (1)
could point even some more nazi stuff about rhythm and even spacing of patterns in terms of consitency but that seemed a bit unnessecary then
[extra]
  1. 00:03:728 (2,3,4,5) low spaced - 00:10:395 (3,4,5,6) high spaced. logic :?
  2. 00:04:249 (6,7) - 00:10:915 (1,2) - why the different rhythms
  3. 00:28:311 - where did all my wubbly sliders go in the repetition of this part 00:14:978 - ?
  4. 00:32:686 (1,2,3,4) - 00:19:145 (5,1,2,3) - make them the same? more memorisable then, too not mentioning its actually completely the same thing again
  5. 01:07:999 (1,1,2,3) - 01:01:332 (1,1,2,3,4) - map them in kinda the same way? at least fix that slider 01:01:332 (1)
modded this one just very briefly :/ i guess someone or you need to check some of the NC changes you might did on the comfort-diff and apply them here possibly too
[ongakus insane]
  1. 00:02:374 (1) - remove NC. compare to 00:08:311 (1,2,3)
  2. 00:08:728 (2) - for same reason as above make this also a repeat slider or the other an antijump-non-repeat-slider
  3. 00:48:520 - 00:49:145 - 00:49:457 - "The Disappearance of whistle-chan". it really hurts, i wold rather remove the drum-hitsounds for that. the normal-whsitles are exclusively for the special synth of this part (while the drum HS are basiclal everywhere) so at least keep it consistent.
  4. 00:54:874 - 00:55:395 - 00:55:603 - same as ^, you could actually put them on the sliderend, sliderbody, sliderbody so why not add them if you can?
very consistent
[]
i guess the rest is fine =w=
ahh why did you already kd the lazy irc mod <.<
Topic Starter
Shiirn
For reference:


Don't trust the color of the ticks to tell you where the prominent beats are. Almost all of the sliders that end on white ticks are doing so because they are having the player click something that isn't just the bass.

Applied a lot of arphi and polack's mod, working on the rest. Replying to each would take forever but i will if necessary.
Hula
Why arphi got kds and i didn't?
Zare
I don't dislike this map.
You have some offbeat sliders in your peak diff, i'd prefer you changed those into something more fitting, but aside from that the map is really decent.
Ongaku

phaZ wrote:

[ongakus insane]
  1. 00:02:374 (1) - remove NC. compare to 00:08:311 (1,2,3) applied
  2. 00:08:728 (2) - for same reason as above make this also a repeat slider or the other an antijump-non-repeat-slider Kind of confused here...
  3. 00:48:520 - 00:49:145 - 00:49:457 - "The Disappearance of whistle-chan". it really hurts, i wold rather remove the drum-hitsounds for that. the normal-whsitles are exclusively for the special synth of this part (while the drum HS are basiclal everywhere) so at least keep it consistent. remade patterns and applied hitsounds for consistency
  4. 00:54:874 - 00:55:395 - 00:55:603 - same as ^, you could actually put them on the sliderend, sliderbody, sliderbody so why not add them if you can? same here
very consistent
Thanks for the mod!
Yauxo
Just kind of going over it. Youve already got enough mods in here, so Im not even going to bother, I'll just drop my tiny shit here.

I guess it's a good map (somewhat, not the best though, guess it's fun), but at the same time I feel like some playability factors went missing to compensate for some, not always necessary, aesthetics. Some random patterns that explain what I mean. Take it or leave it, Comfort
(Edit: I couldve sworn that the Comfort diff was named Routing when creating this post. Now I just look like some weirdo that tried to make a funny or impactful joke with the name of the song).

■ 00:09:561 (1,2) - 00:10:082 (1,2) - The map looks like it's going full-on for flow, at least that's what I assume all these blankets and rounded Sliders are for. If that's so, then these kinds of Sliders just dont fit in. They most likely could be thrown into the anti-flow chest, as the map (generally fast paced) and the mentioned combo ((1 -> 2) and (2a -> 2b), the slow forced back and forth) dont work well together. Even if you tried to blame this on the music, because of whatever silent note in the song, it just doesnt fit. Weird antiflow objects and fast flowy maps dont like each other.
■ 00:15:290 (2,3,4) - Whats up with that spacing? Both seperate combos are like a family that lost each other at a park or something. Put them back together, they dont like to be seperated. (really though, random speedups for seemingly no reason dont feel good)
■ 00:18:103 (4,5,6,7) - Compared to what kind of sounds made 00:13:936 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - so jumpy, this one shouldnt be this spaced.
■ 00:28:624 (2,3,4) - Strong sound is on (3), jump is on (4). It's the small things that make things feel weird.
■ 00:52:270 (3,4,5) - 01:13:728 (3,4,5) - Similar thing as above. Even though it has the shiny sound on it (which would explain the jump), I still dont think that mid-alternate (is that a word) jumps like these are any good. Maybe I just really like spacial equality.
■ 00:55:186 (2) - Sliderhead on the end of a strong beat feels "meh" as well. 00:55:082 (1) - 's sound is too strong to have something on where (2) sits. Probably wouldve been better if this (1) was a longer Slider.
■ 01:23:207 (4,5) - Not sure where that comes from, but my head tells me that this would feel much better if the combo/slider was released towards the right. Quick up/down movements are usually somewhat shaky and not precise, so having a less hard/fixed jump pattern (-> not always to the left) might be easier. Probably nonsense.

idkmanidontlike7*plusmapsidkifthispostevenmakessense
Froslass
MOST OF THESE SUGGESTIONS WERE DONE BEFORE LOTS OF THE PREVIOUS MODS SO A LOT OF STUFF DOESN'T MAKE SENSE ANYMORE. Posting the unfinished thing here before I just give up with it. If I ever get to modding the rest I'll do it, idk.





Hi! First off, this mod will be done throughout a busy day I'll be having, so I *may* have a few inconsistent points, so I'm sorry for that! I'm also with a small hearing issue and I'm not listening to everything clearly so I may end up missing a few stuff or pinpointing what isn't 100% right. If I ever come across as rude in the mod I'm sorry! I'm just really trying to get some stuff which feels awkward so next time you get this qualified, people won't be mad at you. All of these are with the actual intention of helping and not trashtalking the map, and most of these will be told from a player's perspective since, in the case of 7* maps, it matters slightly more than a mapper's perspective. I'll still be doing comments for aesthetical stuff and nazi things when necessary (or not), though.

[Comfy]

  1. 00:03:520 (1) - I feel like this NC doesn't really belong here at all. Yes, you are showing that the song has changed instrument/intensity, but this is such a small change/sound that it just doesn't matter at all. I'd either take the NC off from this or 00:03:728 (1) - as there is no need to have both here. If you choose to let these, then you might want to add a NC to places like 00:04:561 (2) - since the intensity change here is much more interesting to emphasize with a NC and you didn't do it.
  2. 00:05:915 (5,2) - Nazi - these aren't perfectly stacked
  3. 00:08:311 (1,5) - ^
  4. 00:09:561 (1,2) - ^, but this isn't really my issue with this one. The fact that you have a counter-logical movement between the end of (6) and (1) is already a big issue usually, but then (2) just simply has a unnatural movement that plays extremely awkward and feels like just a gimmicky pattern made for the sake of it. The song doesn't really support "going back to where you wre before" so there's no need for something like this. If you really want to keep something like this in a way that I can support it, then you can go full tengaku and do this. Note that the screenshot also suggests a good new placement for (3) which does play kinda awkwardly, but still much better than what it is now.
  5. 00:10:082 (1,2) - Badly stacked, and same issue as before, however this isn't as big of an issue because there is a break before. Still not something I fully support, but I believe you won't want to change this.
  6. 00:11:645 (1) - This slider has a few issues. It's not perfectly blanketing (2)'s sliderend, also looks really ugly with the curve from the previous slider barely touching it, aaaand also it flows really badly, as it is forcing you to make an unnatural movement (going up following (2), then you have to instantly go right and up->left again to follow (1). If you don't mind about the blanketing, then the solution to fix the flow will be ctrl+G'ing (1) and (3) like this, which results in a much more natural movement and doesn't break your pattern in any way.
  7. 00:13:936 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - As a tap player I don't really like these jumps and I feel like they aren't really nice to alternate as well due to their movement and distance, but I may be wrong here, so I won't really suggest you to change, just a small quick comment
  8. 00:15:290 (2,3,4) - Yes, I get your point with the spacing difference you're using here. Yes, it does follow the song to a certain extent. But then here comes the biggest issue of it all: Does it *actually* play well and intuitive? A player might be easily able to sightread/play this spacing, but it still doesn't make up for the fact that it is not as enjoyable to play. The biggest problem here, however, is that the song does support jumps like these, but you still have to find a way to make them play better than they do right now. These sudden changes in spacing and flow are what makes the map 'choppy' to play for most people, it's not even about the blanketing or the crazy 288 jumps. I know that this was done on purpose and you may want to keep them since it is the essence of the map, but if you ever think about changing it, then, in this case, stacking (3,4) would make it better as you're not exactly going through a weird spacing change and is just playing a stacked note which is a much more interesting cursor movement. If you really want to keep this, though, then at least properly blanket (4) with (1)'s start.
  9. 00:15:707 (5,6) - Unnatural movement, as explained before (this also looks a bit ugly for me but it may be just me). It doesn't really make the pattern much prettier, but turning the slider around like this may make it nicer to play.
  10. 00:16:645 (3,2) - Nazi, these are not perfectly stacked. Don't forget to fix 00:17:999 (4) - if you care about this!
  11. 00:17:999 (4) - I'd reeeeeally really rotate this slider slightly so you actually make a star movement when playing (right now, (4)'s length makes you have to go up instead of going straight to (5) which may be creative, but doesn't exactly play nicely). Rotating this by -30º using selection centre worked nicely for me.
  12. 00:19:874 (4,5) - I already talked about these so it's your choice if you want to keep them. There's something about this one that makes it really confusing for me to sightread and I end up pressing (4) thinking it's a slider. This may be an issue you might look out for, since in a 7.5* map you really need to make these things more intuitive. It may be an issue to another DQ later.
  13. 00:21:228 (3) - It may be just me, but the intensity jump between (2,3) is much bigger than (1,2), so you may want to emphasize this better. Something like this does the trick for me, but it may feel weird/ugly to you (and it also kills your pattern ;_;). Still, it's a better attempt to follow the song, in my view.
  14. 00:22:895 (1,2) - I feel like the spacing between these two is way too low... This is almost the spacing you've been using for 1/8s, while you just had a few 2.40x 1/4 jumps. Intensity is pretty much the same so I don't see why use this as a spacing rest. If you think about changing this, doing this would be a nice way to fix it (and also the pattern looks prettier in my eyes).
  15. 00:23:311 (3) - Nazi, but this isn't perfectly stacked with 00:22:478 (4) - .
  16. 00:23:936 (2,3,4,5) - Nazi as well, spacing between (4,5) is different than (2,3,4).
  17. 00:27:686 (1,2,3,4) - Something about this pattern just makes me not like it. Maybe it is the fact that (1) is almost touching (6), the fact that the sliders are way too curved or (3,4)'s repeats just being way too unintuitive, like you don't know when to start holding each slider and when to stop (aside from looking at the approach circles, but let's be honest, who does this nowadays, especially in a 7 star map). I don't.. really have a suggestion for this, sorry :( I just don't want to break your mapping so I'll leave it up to you if you want to do something about this/how you want to do it.
  18. 00:28:832 (4,5,6) - Same issue as 00:15:290 (2,3,4) - so I won't really blabber about it again, just if you want to fix this, placing (5) at 496;152 works fine and creates a nice kind-of-triangle between (2,3,5).
  19. 00:30:811 (3,6) - Pretty weird blanketing here, (3)'s start is much farther away from the smaller slider than the ending is, but there's a bigger issue here:
  20. 00:31:332 (6) - You're missing a clickable sound at 00:31:436 - . I won't go around explaining the basics of how beats have to be clickable & etc so I'll spare you the details and send you up a suggestion on how it could be made using the mapping logic you used here.
  21. 00:33:311 (3) - Same as 00:30:811 (3,6) - , seems like a ctrl+> fixes this one instanty though.
  22. 00:34:249 (1,1,2,3,4) - This one just feels extremely unintuitive to play because the spacing just goes much different than what you've been using for the past 5 seconds or so. I think something like this should work better while using your mapping logic. Note that 00:34:249 (1) - is stacked over 00:33:832 (3) - .
  23. 00:36:540 (1) - This slider looks slightly ugly, so I'll be giving you a code with a better curve if you want, here
  24. 00:37:061 (1,5) - Nazi - not perfectly stacked
  25. 00:37:895 (1) - Nazi - moving the last sliderpoint to 252;192 makes this blanket look a bit better
  26. 00:38:311 (3) - ^, moving the middle point to 268;48 does the same thing
  27. 00:39:457 (2) - Nazi again, doesn't perfectly stack with 00:38:936 (3) - . I know these are really annoying and small but I'm just pointing them out for the sake of "if you don't want to fix them that's completely fine, if you want to fix them it's a small improvement"
  28. 00:40:186 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - haha tengaku memes xD
Shohei Ohtani
when you can't find mods so you get your map qualified then get a bunch of post-DQ modders with giant mod posts
Topic Starter
Shiirn
I'd like to point out BD's half-finished mod has given more insight than most other mods I've gotten for a while. Also did Yuaxo's mod, but if I hear the word "flow" one more time without any sort of explanation as to what they feel flow is (because seriously ask 5 people and you'll get 5 different definitions of flow) i'm going to kick monstrata's cat
Arphimigon
Flow:
"Stop using this word, it's worse than swag."

ps: my mod only mentioned flow at the end in the bonus section cus its subjective pls dont kill
Yauxo
Clarification: I just use flow as a word that explains mapinternal intuitive movement (and maybe placement). Not subjective "I like what I do, but yours is bad" flow.
Natsu
I'd love to see you reply to mod, specially to the ones you ignore (Hula's one for example), to be honest without reply its hard to know what is going on with the map.
Hula
serious shiirn, don't be that guy.

You were on about flow before, I mentioned flow a fair bit because I saw you made that big reply to cxu's post which was strongly based on flow. And nearly all the mods mention flow. It's real. This is you btw

Really?


My mod might not be amazing, but it certainly isn't terrible. I made valid points about some rhythms at the very least. And my mod is asking you questions, that's a key thing as a mapper, being able to answer why you mapped things. Srsly. Don't be that guy.
Liiraye

Yauxo wrote:

Clarification: I just use flow as a word that explains mapinternal intuitive movement (and maybe placement). Not subjective "I like what I do, but yours is bad" flow.

Kinda offtopic, but isn't intuitive a subjective term? My definition of flow is just patterns/notes that complement eachother and (may, but not always) align well using a smooth movement. Jumps and gimmicky patterns are to be defined on their own as you can't really tell what flow is when it comes to cross screen curled sliders x.x
Topic Starter
Shiirn
My usage of the word "Flow" in the tour was not related to the abstract definition everyone seems to divine from their own bowel movements, but in the literal sense of the word, going in a straight direction from one to the next.
Styx
got u fam
Rizen
Zare
Ayyyy
Topic Starter
Shiirn
Hula, your tone is shit. You're the only person I've considered to have a bad mod, and I'm fairly sure it's obvious why.


Natsu wrote:

I'd love to see you reply to mod, specially to the ones you ignore (Hula's one for example), to be honest without reply its hard to know what is going on with the map.

given that there are literally 15 mods since it has been DQ'd, it's hard to keep track when I am doing literally 4-5 at the same time and they all overlap and meld together. This may not be something you can really imagine, but it happens.


So basically, let me archive here:

Millhiore's mod: Response
Mazziv: Nobody cares
Silynn: Response
fieryrage: Response
Nube: IRC mod
Anxient: Response
Zexous: As it was purely blankets, I didn't respond, and attempted to do them all. Shouldn't need to directly reply here.
phaZ: IRC mod
Arphimigon: Mostly a theory-based mod, can't really directly respond to anything. The NC suggestions were taken into account, and most of the "are there even sounds here" or "what noises are being mapped" were more about disagreements in emphasis rather than direct suggestions
And from there on, responses:

WORSTPOLACKEU
00:17:478 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
Extremely awkward to play.
You can for example ctrl-g 00:17:895 (3,4) - those and it's much better.
I have played this part so many times and I still can't get it straight because the pattern is overshadowed by the most distinct sound. This pattern was reworked as part of this mod and a few other mods.

00:44:665 (5,1) - This flow is very weird, and the next note is just spaced but is the same, I would ctrl-g 00:44:770 (1) - . Accepted.

00:48:520 (5) - Why is it placed like that. Why not?

00:51:645 (4,5,1) - This pattern is really awkward situated, pattern before it is different and there is no change to the song really but the movement required is not jumpy anymore, it's linear and it makes it very weird to play. This pattern was reworked as part of this mod and a few other mods.

00:54:874 (7,1,2,3) - This looks like you placed random notes to a different song, flow and rhythm is terror This area was changed around a bit due to BD's mod and discussion with me on the map, but was not changed due to this mod in particular.

01:05:395 (4,5,6,7) - :/ even the whole pattern 01:05:395 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - is just weird. This was modified, but again, was not changed due to this mod in particular.

01:18:936 (1,2,3) - I think I hear 1/6 rhythm. Also 01:19:040 (3,4,5) - spacing increases when the song goes down. 01:32:895 (4,5) - Same here, why so? Confirmed the timing as 1/8, and that the volume doesn't necessarily equate to the burst of the end of this part of the kiai.

01:20:915 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - This doesn't play as well as the one before it, the tones are not fit for this pattern. Not changed as more people find this good than find this bad.

01:23:311 (5) - looks like a dick xdddd
01:23:728 (1) - and this would be balls I guess Not worth a response

01:28:103 (3,4) - slider first then white tick note please Following the voice, not every bass hit needs a click

01:29:040 (6,7,1) - Stuff like this in the map makes it awkward to play at many places, the flow is just off. This was modified, but again, was not changed due to this mod in particular.

01:32:270 (6,1) - Blanket. Done

01:32:895 (4) - I would ctrl-g Don't remember if I did or not

01:33:311 (1,2) - This just doesn't go well, why such big spacing? At some points it feels like you are spacing the map way higher than it should be and then when something special comes when imo you should increase it, you decrease it. Moved a few of the circles closer while staying with the snap patterning.


01:34:874 (4) - I don't like this one, ends at big white tick and that doesn't work that well, why not go 3 sliders in a row and a single tap at the end to accentuate the big white tick? Same as before, vocal > bass

01:35:082 (1,2,3) - The sound at your triple is not a triple also you just jump towards 01:35:395 (4,5,6) - . Moved 4.
Mapping to different rhythms in one combo, don't know if that's a good idea.

01:17:478 (1,2) - Why not slider on white tick and note on red? It fits so much better. These are offbeat in accordance with the synth. The bass being on-beat is just a sad side effect.

phaZ
First off, Ongaku replied to his diff. All Extra suggestions done, very helpful.

Comfort:
All NC-related stuff denied
Hitsound related stuff done
Most note-related stuff done, some not, like it's really frustrating to go over every single little thing in this density of information does it really matter? he was very helpful and a lot of his stuff is useful but a lot of it wasnt and thats just how modding goes


Yauxo
■ 00:09:561 (1,2) - 00:10:082 (1,2) - The map looks like it's going full-on for flow, at least that's what I assume all these blankets and rounded Sliders are for. If that's so, then these kinds of Sliders just dont fit in. They most likely could be thrown into the anti-flow chest, as the map (generally fast paced) and the mentioned combo ((1 -> 2) and (2a -> 2b), the slow forced back and forth) dont work well together. Even if you tried to blame this on the music, because of whatever silent note in the song, it just doesnt fit. Weird antiflow objects and fast flowy maps dont like each other. These were partially reworked to not stack on top of eachother so hard, combining this and BD's suggestions
■ 00:15:290 (2,3,4) - Whats up with that spacing? Both seperate combos are like a family that lost each other at a park or something. Put them back together, they dont like to be seperated. (really though, random speedups for seemingly no reason dont feel good) This was an oversight from a previous mod. Fixed.
■ 00:18:103 (4,5,6,7) - Compared to what kind of sounds made 00:13:936 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - so jumpy, this one shouldnt be this spaced. This is the highlight of the early parts of the map.
■ 00:28:624 (2,3,4) - Strong sound is on (3), jump is on (4). It's the small things that make things feel weird. That fits to me. Bass hit -> synth jump.
■ 00:52:270 (3,4,5) - 01:13:728 (3,4,5) - Similar thing as above. Even though it has the shiny sound on it (which would explain the jump), I still dont think that mid-alternate (is that a word) jumps like these are any good. Maybe I just really like spacial equality. Yeah, I'm not quite up to speed with the modern sensation of "Notes need to either be perfectly equidistant from eachother or random direction/spacing PP jumps"
■ 00:55:186 (2) - Sliderhead on the end of a strong beat feels "meh" as well. 00:55:082 (1) - 's sound is too strong to have something on where (2) sits. Probably wouldve been better if this (1) was a longer Slider. I don't understand. This was already fine. Maybe it was fixed earlier.
■ 01:23:207 (4,5) - Not sure where that comes from, but my head tells me that this would feel much better if the combo/slider was released towards the right. Quick up/down movements are usually somewhat shaky and not precise, so having a less hard/fixed jump pattern (-> not always to the left) might be easier. Probably nonsense. Probably indeed. I don't know what to say here.

BD
see this mod is great because i can unironically say "accepted all" and it's actually true, ilu buddy. Some of the suggestions weren't taken pixel for pixel, but used to improve the patterns as a whole.


I'll get to hula's later
Axarious
General
  1. when i say the "slider points back towards where it came from" i think it's more of the problem that the slider body is in the way of the sliderhead, which makes it a bit harder to read and aim it (players might hit the sliderbody instead of the actual target)
Comfort
  1. 00:05:603 (3,4) - looks a bit cramped, perhaps move (4) to 404|281 for a parallelogram and ds fix?
  2. 00:09:561 (1,2) - and 00:10:082 (1,2) - i think these two look kinda out of place, the low ds between them isn't consistent with the rest of the first 12 seconds
  3. 00:27:582 (6,1,2,1) - this ds is a bit wonky to me, it plays like a stream but it's kinda like a weird square thing, maybe something like this?
  4. 00:32:686 (5) - i think remove nc here and add nc here 00:32:895 (4) - would make it a bit easier to read
  5. 00:33:311 (4,1) - these nc's on the blue ticks are all a bit hard to read, but i'm not sure if you can really do anything else here :v
  6. 00:52:270 (3,4,5) - this ds increase is really awkward to play
  7. 00:52:686 (1,2,3) - the movement for this is doable, but it feels a bit unnatural
  8. 01:05:395 (4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - this also feels quite unnatural/messy to play, it's also hard to hit, i think i get it 1 in 10 tries
  9. 01:08:520 (2,3) - whoa this is weird to play. additionally, 01:08:832 (4) - this is 1/3 as well, i think this rhythm would be a bit better
  10. 01:14:040 (5,6,1,2) - this ds change is kinda weird, but i guess it's okay, it's hittable most of the time
  11. 01:17:478 (1,2) - not a big fan of this right -> left movement and the slider points towards where it just came from, perhaps something that'll keep the player moving like this?
  12. 01:18:520 (1,2,3) - i don't hear a sound on 3, only the pitch raise from (1,2)
  13. 01:20:603 (4,5) - kinda same idea with the slider pointing back towards where it came from, huge loss of momentum
  14. 01:27:061 (3,4) - ^
  15. 01:28:103 (3,4) - ^
  16. 01:29:874 (4,1) - two things, one is ^, the other is that the following pattern is difficult to read-there's a pause and that stack with the round slider, iunno, not a big fan of that pause there
  17. 01:30:915 (5,6,7) - i think (6) should be moved to 341|243 and ctrl j'd to keep momentum in this slider pattern
  18. 01:32:374 (7,1) - slider points towards where it came from
  19. 01:34:353 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) - this is all very weird, 01:34:874 (4) - and 01:35:395 (4,5) - are probably the hardest to hit out of these
  20. 01:45:395 (2,3,4,5) - perhaps HJ 00:05:395 (1,2,3,4) - this thing if you decide to fix the small ds :p
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Axarious wrote:

General
  1. when i say the "slider points back towards where it came from" i think it's more of the problem that the slider body is in the way of the sliderhead, which makes it a bit harder to read and aim it (players might hit the sliderbody instead of the actual target)
Comfort
  1. 00:05:603 (3,4) - looks a bit cramped, perhaps move (4) to 404|281 for a parallelogram and ds fix? Moved and re-positioned the pattern slightly to accurately stack.
  2. 00:09:561 (1,2) - and 00:10:082 (1,2) - i think these two look kinda out of place, the low ds between them isn't consistent with the rest of the first 12 seconds Blanketted the first (1) and spaced out the second.
  3. 00:27:582 (6,1,2,1) - this ds is a bit wonky to me, it plays like a stream but it's kinda like a weird square thing, maybe something like this or something? Reworked. This was driving me crazy, this is the best suggestion I've gotten on it ever. thanks.
  4. 00:32:686 (5) - i think remove nc here and add nc here 00:32:895 (4) - would make it a bit easier to read Done
  5. 00:33:311 (4,1) - these nc's on the blue ticks are all a bit hard to read, but i'm not sure if you can really do anything else here :v i know right
  6. 00:52:270 (3,4,5) - this ds increase is really awkward to play reworked it a bit
  7. 00:52:686 (1,2,3) - the movement for this is doable, but it feels a bit unnatural Reworked a bit, hope it's more readable, the beats here are prime to be rather jerky but i dont want it outright confusing
  8. 01:05:395 (4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - this also feels quite unnatural/messy to play, it's also hard to hit, i think i get it 1 in 10 tries
  9. 01:08:520 (2,3) - whoa this is weird to play. additionally, 01:08:832 (4) - this is 1/3 as well, i think this rhythm would be a bit better done
  10. 01:14:040 (5,6,1,2) - this ds change is kinda weird, but i guess it's okay, it's hittable most of the time I actually fixed this just now after your playtest. Glad we both saw it!
  11. 01:17:478 (1,2) - not a big fan of this right -> left movement and the slider points towards where it just came from, perhaps something that'll keep the player moving like this? Rotated and turned
  12. 01:18:520 (1,2,3) - i don't hear a sound on 3, only the pitch raise from (1,2) I clearly hear three sounds even at 100%, although they kind of blend a bit together, it'd be far worse to just have a 1/8 double sitting around where the rest of the map never does that
  13. 01:20:603 (4,5) - kinda same idea with the slider pointing back towards where it came from, huge loss of momentum
  14. 01:27:061 (3,4) - ^
  15. 01:28:103 (3,4) - ^ Not entirely sure what to do with these as there aren't many other ways i can map them without putting them at a completely different location.
  16. 01:29:874 (4,1) - two things, one is ^, the other is that the following pattern is difficult to read-there's a pause and that stack with the round slider, iunno, not a big fan of that pause there This thing is ridiculously hard to map. I'm going to try to fix it, hold my beer.
  17. 01:30:915 (5,6,7) - i think (6) should be moved to 341|243 and ctrl j'd to keep momentum in this slider pattern done
  18. 01:32:374 (7,1) - slider points towards where it came from
  19. 01:34:353 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) - this is all very weird, 01:34:874 (4) - and 01:35:395 (4,5) - are probably the hardest to hit out of these Reworked it a little bit.
  20. 01:45:395 (2,3,4,5) - perhaps HJ 00:05:395 (1,2,3,4) - this thing if you decide to fix the small ds :p Done
Ongaku
axarious for president 2k69
Side
placeholder :v

K hitsound mod oh baby

Not checking the highest two diffs cuz I don't want to I'm too tired. I'll trust Shiirn to have done a good job on it (rip)

[Ongaku]

00:04:145 (4) - Remove the whistle. Takes away from the effect of 00:04:040 (3) - where the last strong piano note plays.

00:10:603 (3) - Add whistle to slider end. Also remove whistle from 00:10:811 (4) - if you applied the first (which you should have)

00:11:645 (1) - 00:12:061 (1,2,4) - 00:12:582 (2,3) - I know what you're trying to do here but I think you could get away with adding drum whistles on these to follow dat piano like you did with 00:06:783 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) -

00:17:478 (2) - Clap is not necessary imo and seems accidental otherwise it would be here 00:20:811 (5) - or 00:24:145 (1) - so remove (or add to all the missing ones if you really like that effect and wanna give yourself more work for some reason)

00:26:540 (1) - Not needed but a soft finish could work here since the music does it. 00:26:645 (2) - Or here instead both would work.

00:28:311 (1) - Remove clap. Otherwise you would've had it at 00:14:978 (1) - etc.

00:34:457 (5,6) - Maybe drum samples (no hitsounds still) on these would sound nicer. Your call on this one. Shame there's no note on 00:34:561 - Or it would have a drum finish :(

00:36:540 (1) - Maybe intentional but if not change to drum sample.

00:39:457 (2) - Drum finish so it sounds like 00:20:811 (5,6,7) - etc

00:42:686 (3) - Missing drum addition whistle on the slider end at 00:42:895 - like the other sliders 00:42:270 (2) - etc.

00:47:478 (4) - I think this was supposed to be drum sample auto addition like 00:46:645 (3) - 00:48:311 (1) -

00:49:145 (5) - Same for this one but just the slider head.

00:54:145 (2) - Drum addition here I think to get that 2/1 beat you're trying to keep consistent i.e 00:49:978 (8) - 00:50:707 (4) - 00:51:645 (8) - 00:52:478 (10) - etc. Same for 00:53:311 (4) -

01:11:645 (1) - Would sound better with a clap over a finish since it's an actual clap in the song lol

01:15:186 (1) - Missing whistle and normal addition on slider head.

01:19:978 (1) - Maybe still add a whistle like 01:13:311 (1) - (consider normal addition as well)

01:21:853 (2) - Whistle normal addition. You already had the addition but forgot whistle :^)

01:28:207 (8) - Drum sample finish on slider end.

01:29:770 (8) - Whistle on head would sound nice imo

01:35:707 (4) - ^

01:40:707 (7) - ^

01:41:228 (5) - ^ (those last two to follow the vocals)

01:51:645 (1) - 01:52:061 (1,2,4) - 01:52:582 (2,3) - Whistles if you did that one thing I said (which you should've)



[Collab hard]

00:14:145 (2,3) - Wouldnt you want normal sample on the slider end of these? would go with the music

00:20:603 (2) - Whistle on slider head would also be nice

00:26:228 (3) - A finish in the repeat at 00:26:540 - would also be nice

00:33:311 (1) - Normal addition on the repeat at 00:33:520 - thats what the drums in the song do

00:37:895 (2) - Remove normal sample. So far that's only been used to follow the drum on the 2/1 beat thing so not here but at 00:38:311 (3) - You have the whistle to follow that piano after all.

00:47:374 - Maybe a whistle here? Would follow that whatever that instrument is but idk if you left it out intentionally.

00:50:811 (4) - ^ Similar to the point above. Whistle but I guess not needed if it's intentional.

01:01:540 (1) - Missing normal sample and finish on slider head.

01:06:645 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Also here you use normal additions instead of normal samples like you did in all the ones before. TBH this one sounds a bit better but if you like the other then change this otherwise change all the others. Basically either all normal sample or all normal addition for consistency.

01:11:645 (1) - Normal clap might sound better imo. Closer to what the song does anyway.

01:13:311 (1) - Finish :(

01:17:790 (4) - Whistle would be nice too

01:23:311 (1) - Whistle on head would also be nice to follow that thingy.

01:26:645 (1) - Finish :(

01:27:895 (6) - Whistle on tail but not needed.

01:30:395 (2) - Finish :(

01:34:874 (7) - Oh never mind regarding the point at 01:27:895 (6) - you DO need that whistle cu you did it here >_<

01:37:270 (3) - Maybe normal sample on the slider head so there's a sound to compliment the vocal thingy? or a hitsound idk your choice

01:39:040 (2) - I think this one also needs a finish normal addition

01:46:228 (2,3) - Normal sample not normal addition yo at least not according to 01:42:895 (1,2) -

01:48:311 (4) - Actually idk what you wanna do either normal sample or normal addition cuz again here you use addition so uh..........yeah choose one or the other yo >_<


[Pishi]

01:12:895 (2) - Normal clap sounds better than finish (since thats what the music does anyway)

Other than that sounds fine or I'm too tired probably both :v


[Probox]

Sounds ok or I'm really tired. Also probably both.


Hope this helps. Good luck :)
Spayyce
will mod because I am a beast at oss :^)
Kuki
dirty
Topic Starter
Shiirn
did my part of side's mod, ongaku helped me neaten up a lot of blankets, thx boyo
phaZ

Ongaku wrote:

phaZ wrote:

[ongakus insane]
  1. 00:08:728 (2) - for same reason as above make this also a repeat slider or the other an antijump-non-repeat-slider Kind of confused here...
Thanks for the mod!
just wanted to make sure that you notice that you once use a repeat slider 00:02:061 (2) at and once a normal slider at 00:08:728 (2)
__Phantomhive__
Um, Hey I made a easy Map to this song becouse I didn't know that there is already someone who is making the Map.
Now I don't know what to do with the Map, maybe I could give you the map and you can put it in the Mapset, but your Map is almost finished, isn't it?
So if you want the Map, let me know and I will upload it.(I also have the same Timing and song form the Taiko Map)

Ps: I love this Map so much c:
Ongaku
http://pastebin.com/0MMGsrhX

Applied a bunch of side's hitsounds. Reasons why some were off was because when I went back and redid some parts, I forgot about hitsounds xd

Also, Shiirn, regarding Side's hitsounds mod, I saw that i needed to apply some drum-hitfinish to some normal-hitfinish. I added some hitsounds file, So please do add these:

http://puu.sh/nawKt/0b9ace30f5.wav
http://puu.sh/nawRN/96cec5dd26.wav

Thanks <3

EDIT: Also, fixed up phaZ's mod bit
quaternary
Comfort was a lot better right when it was just qualified; now it's a mess of awkwardly slow spacing. it seems like modders are trying to nerf the map for whatever reason.

Meh. See if you have a backup of that version and then pretend you're hollow wings and reject everything until people finally cave and rank it.
Topic Starter
Shiirn
The only spacing that has been actually and directly nerfed was a jump section in the pre-kiai that was as high as the second kiai (made no sense) and one or two notes in the first kiai.

The map is much easier now, yes, because it's more natural and predictable. I don't want a map that's hard because it's awkward. I want it to be hard because the music is hard. And you can be damn sure, it's still hard.
Arphimigon
Yup, map seems pretty much the same except a few parts which are simpler to predict now.
(and lots of nerfed jumps)
ferret irl
#buffComfort
Hula
no kds, cos got it previously.

[Ongaku's Insane]

solid map. good rhythms, placement and flow btw.

00:04:249 (5) - Blanket the 6 better, that's the whole point of this slider :p
00:26:645 (2) - Not quite perfect blanket with previous slider.
00:38:311 (6) - Blanket

00:46:332 (2) - Could you make this out of the previous 1 slider? and ctrl shift S it please? it's like 1 pixel out, keeps bugging me everytime i go in editor haha.
00:47:478 (4) - Blanket
00:49:978 (8) - NC.
01:05:707 (3) - blanket
01:24:353 - How come no object here? Maybe turn 01:24:145 (1) - into a repeat slider?

edit: fixed a bit of grammar.
Ongaku

Hula wrote:

no kds, cos got it previously.

[Ongaku's Insane]

solid map. good rhythms, placement and flow btw.

00:04:249 (5) - Blanket the 6 better, that's the whole point of this slider :p fixed
00:26:645 (2) - Not quite perfect blanket with previous slider. fixed
00:38:311 (6) - Blanket fixed

00:46:332 (2) - Could you make this out of the previous 1 slider? and ctrl shift S it please? it's like 1 pixel out, keeps bugging me everytime i go in editor haha. applied :v
00:47:478 (4) - Blanket fixed
00:49:978 (8) - NC. applied
01:05:707 (3) - blanket fixed
01:24:353 - How come no object here? Maybe turn 01:24:145 (1) - into a repeat slider? applied

edit: fixed a bit of grammar.
Thanks!

http://pastebin.com/Vd7NgSFM
Topic Starter
Shiirn
Updated Ongaku's diff. Going to be waiting for MillhioreF's go ahead.
Kuki
i'll mod on sunday/monday or smth
Topic Starter
Shiirn
Hello for anyone who happens to stumble upon this.

I spent most of the day mulling over the issue of this map.

I made this set specifically to showcase the difficulty "Comfort", now "Unrankable". It was, and is, a direct tribute to Axarious, whether he appreciates it or not. It does things that for the most part are largely unheard of in the current meta - patterns across the map that are designed in some places to be singletapped, and in others to be alternated, and all of them using many alterations to cursor movement and spacing that make for a map that at first perusal appeared "a cluttered mess".

The rest of the set was just additions added to make Comfort rankable. I am sorry to Ongaku, Probox, and pishifat for wasting their time on this endeavor.

But as it stands I have no more allies remaining willing to see this map through the ranking process. Everyone I have asked for help has been reluctant at best, and that's being charitable. Whether this is due to the map being bad or not is something I cannot fathom; I truly enjoy the entire set and find it to be very charming and succeeding at what it set out to do.

But I am tired of the abuse that not only I got, but people who were helping me to get this to a rankable state. I am very accustomed to receiving vitriol, I'm not exactly the nicest person and feel that I should totally be prepared to "take it" as it were. But to hear other people getting shit for my efforts puts the entire set into perspective.

As such, due to a combination of factors including the response this set has gotten, both positive and negative, I would prefer that this mapset grave on its own with as little drama as possible.

Thank you for your time, and I am sorry for wasting it.
Ongaku
soon(tm)
wasonz
ohhhhhh nice
Anxient
okaeri
Topic Starter
Shiirn
Apr 16.2016 update:

Removed Comfort.
Buffed and nerfed Extra in spots.


I don't know what people want anymore.
Taboki
R.I.P Comfort diff :(

I can't even play it, so shouldn't have much to say.
riffy
We've done a good job with ProBox on fixing the Easy!
Ongaku

Shiirn wrote:

Apr 16.2016 update:

Removed Comfort.
Buffed and nerfed Extra in spots.


I don't know what people want anymore.

Just map what everyone wants.

PP
Zexous

nevar 4get
Side
lol good luck again
riffy
This has suffered enough. Did some IRC.

Changes:
  1. Easy is now has intro and outro correctly re-arraned
  2. Minor rhythm improvements in kiai on the Easy were done, as well
  3. General readability fixes
  4. Rhythm improvements
  5. Nice anime BG
IRC log
08:20 Shiirn: what are you planning? oAo
08:20 Shiirn: also i updated with probox's easy
08:20 Shiirn: i'm the graetest american
08:20 Bakari: I'm trying to get it bubbled
08:21 Shiirn: By you?
08:21 Bakari: Of course!
08:21 Shiirn: i seeeeeeeeeeee
08:28 Bakari: I recommend you to ask GDers if they're actually alright with renaming
08:28 Bakari: I still think it's a must for this set
08:28 Shiirn: probox you've already talked to
08:29 Shiirn: pishifat has given me carte blanche for changing his diff in any way
08:29 Shiirn: and ongaku is literally my student and we talk every day anyway
08:29 Shiirn: so that's all bases covered
08:29 Bakari: I didn't really mention renaming it to Beginner/Simple when we were discussing that
08:29 Bakari: I was too focused on 3/4 stuff
08:30 *Bakari is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/908184 Camellia - Routing [pishi's Normal]]
08:30 Shiirn: hi
08:31 Bakari: 00:26:228 (4) - gets a little overlapped with the score-meter
08:32 Shiirn: http://puu.sh/olaLc/c07d6bd8f9.png
08:32 Bakari: cool
08:32 Shiirn: moved 4 up into a triangle with the previous notes
08:34 Bakari: let's see collab hard now
08:34 Shiirn: which is collab between me and ongaku
08:34 Shiirn: he mapped evens i mapped o- *shot*
08:34 Shiirn: nah i mapped the first half he did the second
08:36 Bakari: 00:18:311 - i feel like something is missing here. how about a circle?
08:36 Bakari: nevermind, I get the pattern now
08:36 Shiirn: sure
08:36 Shiirn: i mean
08:37 Shiirn: i mostly skip the bass
08:37 Shiirn: so im like "uhh if you say so it wouldnt ruin it but"
08:37 Bakari: It works your way
08:37 Bakari: So, let's keep it
08:37 Shiirn: ok
08:37 Bakari: Way better than trying to redo stuff and follow what I'd follow
08:38 Bakari: 00:27:061 (1,2,3,4) - probably a slider instead of a triplet
08:38 Bakari: I am worried about the spread, which is pretty edgy
08:38 Shiirn: let's face it
08:38 Shiirn: this song is not very spread-friendly
08:39 Shiirn: you're forced into multiple damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't choices about which rhythms and instruments you follow
08:39 Bakari: 00:38:728 (4,5,6,7) - same here, sooo
08:39 Shiirn: that one has the chime sound i want to keep
08:39 Shiirn: the first i'll change cuz the noises aren't really there
08:40 Bakari: provided that stuff is confusing enough due to the rhythm alone, I wouldn't introduce such sliderstacks
08:41 Shiirn: what sliderstacks
08:41 Bakari: (4,5) being started at the same point
08:42 Shiirn: are we\
08:42 Shiirn: looking at hard
08:42 Shiirn: or normal
08:42 Bakari: hard
08:42 Shiirn: 00:38:728 (4,5,6,7) - these are all circles
08:42 Bakari: that's why I wanted a slider here :v
08:43 Shiirn: there's the chime that quite fits the mini stream though
08:43 Shiirn: the first one 00:27:061 (1,2) - i replaced with white tick -> blue to blue 1/2 slider
08:43 Shiirn: and it fits
08:43 Bakari: 00:56:645 (1,2) - 1/2 cool / 00:57:999 (5,1) - 1/4 not so cool, as it can be misread as 1/2
08:44 Shiirn: so space the first or second one you think
08:45 Bakari: the second one
08:45 Shiirn: kk
08:45 Shiirn: done
08:45 Bakari: there're more 1/2 stacks like this, and they are damn good
08:45 Shiirn: this is ongaku from now on so i'll just prod him with a log
08:45 Bakari: this is, the rest is alright
08:45 Shiirn: ongaku's already figured out a decent style for himself with stacking that i'd never be able to do
08:45 Shiirn: lol
08:45 Shiirn: it just needs some consistency work
08:45 Bakari: I'd try to tone down 1/4s a bit, though
08:46 Bakari: otherwise it might be a bit too much even for a Hyper
08:46 Shiirn: it's 144bpm and it's basically introducing alternation
08:46 Bakari: okay, now Insane
08:46 *Bakari is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/908183 Camellia - Routing [Ongaku's Insane]]
08:46 Bakari: waitwaitwait
08:46 Shiirn: hi
08:46 Bakari: I forgot one thing, are you sure about tick rate 4 on hard?
08:47 Shiirn: yes
08:47 Bakari: alright then, now back to the Insane
08:47 Shiirn: the patterns basically require following the slider tracks
08:47 Shiirn: no ticks = players try to cheese it and ruin the rhythm for themselves
08:48 Bakari: 00:08:311 (1) - try to replace it with a single slider just like Extra does, seems to work better
08:49 Shiirn: k
08:50 Bakari: even though the slider makes it readable, I'd 00:39:770 (3) - still add a new combo here to stress the velocity change
08:50 Shiirn: actually i think nc would be quite important
08:50 Shiirn: the first and last ticks of that slider don't render during play so it looks like a 1/2 not a 1/1
08:54 Bakari: 01:40:186 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - can you listen to the stream here? I have a feeling it is somewhat off
08:55 Shiirn: yeah uhhh
08:55 Shiirn: don't bother trying to time the quavering voice
08:56 Shiirn: it's 1/12, 1/8 and 1/6 mix
08:57 Bakari: then I guess we'll just try a spinner
08:58 *Bakari is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/877843 Camellia - Routing [Extra]]
08:58 Bakari: Now Extra
08:59 Shiirn: \o
08:59 Bakari: 00:17:478 - I'd rather have something starting here. The breat is pretty strong and a passive reverse-arrow doesn't emphasise it enough
09:00 Bakari: 00:27:999 (1,1,1) - is there really a need to use so many new combos?
09:00 Shiirn: agree. Bear in mind, Extra was mapped with Comfort being there, and thereby is intentionally "much weaker" than it
09:00 Shiirn: i'll have places where i can buff it wantonly
09:02 Shiirn: the new combo spam there is for the change in spacing and for thematic reasons
09:02 Shiirn: not really much else
09:05 Bakari: `00:55:395 - again, some clickable stuff wouldn't hurt
09:05 Shiirn: since the song is winding down i think it's fine
09:06 Shiirn: it's reaching near the end of the section there
09:06 Shiirn: before the 4 windup portions and then the kiai
09:06 Shiirn: god i know this song like the back of my hand
09:08 Bakari: tha's pretty much it
09:08 Shiirn: ok
09:08 Bakari: it even has an anime background, so it is sure to fit well with the rest of the maps in Qualified
09:08 Shiirn: pls
09:08 Bakari: Update, so I can look at stuff and bubbble
09:08 Shiirn: same bg as taiko set
09:09 Shiirn: and it fits sooo goooooooooooooooooooooooooood
09:09 Shiirn: updated
09:10 *Bakari is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/908183 Camellia - Routing [Ongaku's Insane]]
09:10 Bakari: 01:40:186 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - a look of disappointment goes here
09:11 Shiirn: i never said i'd make it a spinner
09:12 Bakari: The stream feels extremely weird, though
09:12 Shiirn: let me talk it over with ongaku a bit
09:12 Bakari: Sure
09:12 Shiirn: give me five minutes
09:16 Shiirn: Updated with spinner
09:18 Bakari: Anything else you want to change/discuss?
09:19 Shiirn: uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
09:19 Shiirn: #fuckthesystem
09:19 Shiirn: #igiveup
09:19 Shiirn: #hopethehatersarehappy
09:19 Shiirn: etc
13:37 Bakari: #nicetvsizem8

Seems good enough to have another try! Comfort will be missed, though.

Bubbled!


Edit2: the spread is tricky, gaps are really big but consistent, So, I believe it is good to go.
Luel Roseline
OMG...
Topic Starter
Shiirn
Thanks Bakari.
blizzardice
no comfort? dang. i'll still try to pass the version that i have, it's fun

GL
Mazziv
is this actually happening? sweet :v)
Luel Roseline
#1: bakari
#2: ?
#Q: ?
Have you ever seem good girlfriends?
Froslass

S A V E R Y wrote:

Have you ever seem good girlfriends?
Topic Starter
Shiirn

S A V E R Y wrote:

#1: bakari
#2: ?
#Q: ?
Have you ever seem good girlfriends?
As this is not going for approval, I do not need a second bubble. This is simply waiting for someone to step up and "take the chance" (?) and qualify it.
Crimmi

Shiirn wrote:

As this is not going for approval, I do not need a second bubble. This is simply waiting for someone to step up and "take the chance" (?) and qualify it.
Hmm, who has the cojones to do that, hmm? xD
riffy
You know, instead of hyping the thread you could actually support Shiirn and find a BN for him.
Mazziv

Bakari wrote:

You know, instead of hyping the thread you could actually support Shiirn and find a BN for him.
implying its easy to find one
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Bakari wrote:

You know, instead of hyping the thread you could actually support Shiirn and find a BN for him.
WAHAHAHAHAHAHA FINDING A BN



to be honest if i can't get one really quickly i don't think it's really possible to get one quickly without doing something fishy as I've basically got years of practice with needling people to check my maps. this is why I don't ask people to ask bns or stuff for me or really to support my maps in any way because i'm already pretty good at it and encourage people to just speak to me directly as I have way more fun chatting one on one than on forums.
like 90% of the support or criticism i receive is via forum pm or ingame (or even discord) and I like it that way

i appreciate the thought though bakari



wake me up when exams end or there's another BN round
ProfessionalBox

Shiirn wrote:

wake me up when exams end or there's another BN round
WAKE ME UP INSIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE
Mazziv

ProfessionalBox wrote:

Shiirn wrote:

wake me up when exams end or there's another BN round
WAKE ME UP INSIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE
CANT WAKE UP
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Mazziv wrote:

ProfessionalBox wrote:

WAKE ME UP INSIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE
CANT WAKE UP
MY SPIRIT'S SLEEPING SOMEWHERE COLD
Luel Roseline

Shiirn wrote:

"Mazziv"

ProfessionalBox wrote:

WAKE ME UP INSIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE
CANT WAKE UP

MY SPIRIT'S SLEEPING SOMEWHERE COLD
Damn...
Okoayu
This is my personal opinion because you asked me to check this due to no one else really doing anything

[Extra]
I'd like to see AR reduced slightly, after testing around the most comfortable thing i personally found is AR 9.3 or 9.4, 9.5 left too few objects on the screen for me to comprehend patterns correctly and i don't think it's necessary as i got much better scores with less ar on it
OD 8.8 seems really high considering the amount of unpredictable patterns you put into the diff.
i mean isnt this thing based around blankets because then half of them are lol and could be easily adjusted slightly but whatever
00:02:895 (1,2) - 00:06:228 (1,2) - 00:09:353 (6,1,2) - when you do stuff this differently like this i just feel like you took reasoning and threw it out the window
00:16:436 (2) - is nowhere near as stressed as 00:16:540 - but gets equal spacing to fuck my brain
00:18:103 (5) - judging by how you mapped 00:17:478 (3,4) - the end of 5 should be clickable and not something like a sliderend
00:21:540 (3) - not sure but i think this would capture the sound better as an 1/4 slider
00:21:749 (1,2,3,4,5) - seem to change around between mapping 2 different layers so i don't know what you're following anymore ?
00:31:332 (3) - based on how you mapped 00:30:811 (1,2) - the end ot this should be clickable ://
00:37:999 (4) - there's nothing really dominant to be focused on this sliderhead, actually the sound you might want to emphasise in some way is 00:37:895 - as an 1/2 or something but i don't get why this gets a jump
00:27:895 - isnt this 1/6 or am i dumb
00:46:853 (1,2,3,4,1) - while i personally don't struggle much with this in particular i can see how people ould hate you for that
01:14:353 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - have way more energy than "semi-stack"-streamjumps, i'd consider more spacing here because right now this feels rather like a setback instead an intense part which is quite boring for me
01:17:999 (4) - fuck you i expected this to go the other way around (so 4 and 5 being reversed in terms of direction)
01:18:936 (3,4) - why do you mess around with emphasis on slidertails this much if you don't do it anywhere before in kiai
01:29:978 - sounds more like 01:29:978 - 01:30:030 - 01:30:117 - 01:30:256 - so it's an 1/8 and an 1/3 ?
01:38:415 (4,1) - do yo ueven care about blankets in this at all
01:49:562 (1,2) - 01:50:082 (1,2) - nah i dk why you feel the need to stack these on ends just to mindfuck ppl in the end or something

[]

No idea i think this could be structured waaaaaaaaay better and besides if the diff is based on blankets you could have at least put some effort into them :/
I don't think my opinion whether i like this or not is going to change unless you do huge changes to the diff, because as it seems to me now the song makes way more sense within itself than your map within itself and that's not something i can fix for you or that mods can fix for you.

either want to reflect this in your map or you dont and if you don't, don't ask me to icon this because you can't find someone else because everyone is like meh
Topic Starter
Shiirn
I wanted checks, not necessarily an icon, and I already know you heavily disagree with how I map in general, but I'm asking pretty much everyone at this point. I've already gone over how I have mapped Routing and how the system has basically turned the set from a crazy-funtime-house-of-horrors into a patchwerk mess of "BUT IT HAS TO BE PERFECTLY CONSISTENT" while trying to keep in the spirit of the track's and map's original unpredictable and spontaneous theme. I'm fully aware that by this point it's become a disorganized mess as opposed to a structured and organized one and that's largely due to my efforts in trying to balance out Comfort and Extra so that I can keep as few people frothing at the mouths at HOW FUCKING DARE SHIIRN MAKE ANYTHING THE LEAST BIT DIFFERENT OR SPECIAL THAT I DISAGREE WITH, but that is clearly a venture that is going to bring me nothing but stress so fuck you all.

I only want to rank this so that Ongaku's very, very solid Insane can get some screentime. I'd delete Extra too, but then I wouldn't be able to rank it because I wouldn't own most of the map so I'd need to get rid of another GD and map that, or nuke half the hard and map that.

Okorin wrote:

[Extra]
I'd like to see AR reduced slightly, after testing around the most comfortable thing i personally found is AR 9.3 or 9.4, 9.5 left too few objects on the screen for me to comprehend patterns correctly and i don't think it's necessary as i got much better scores with less ar on it I'm not really one to care specifically about 0.1 AR or so, but to begin with Extra was originally meant to be 'harder' to help bridge the gap between Insane and Comfort, and upon removing Comfort, I've lowered the artificial difficulty patterns and settings and may have missed one or two spots, such as the AR or OD. Lowered AR to 9.3 and OD to 8.5.
i mean isnt this thing based around blankets because then half of them are lol and could be easily adjusted slightly but whatever I'm sorry for being abjectly and utterly shit at making blankets. I'm trying to improve at getting used to these magic three points. I haven't had years to fuck around with them like you kids. Everyone can say "Oh he's just fucking lazy" all they want to whoever they want but I genuinely do have trouble getting these things perfect and I'm trying to work on that.
00:02:895 (1,2) - 00:06:228 (1,2) - 00:09:353 (6,1,2) - when you do stuff this differently like this i just feel like you took reasoning and threw it out the window k, i'll just copy+paste the click patterns for all 3. The only one that is distinctly different is the last one and can be considered an error. I distinctly remember flipping #1 because someone bitched about the back-and-forth patterning so fuck them, it's going back to reversal. these are now consistent,
00:16:436 (2) - is nowhere near as stressed as 00:16:540 - but gets equal spacing to fuck my brain The stressing starts at 1. The spacing is 1-3 with a note in the center.
00:18:103 (5) - judging by how you mapped 00:17:478 (3,4) - the end of 5 should be clickable and not something like a sliderend Comfort had this as a triple, so here I made it a slider because it's easier to play. Extra is already obscenely hard to play because it's basically a 288bpm map that's trying to be single tappable. I gave up consistency for a less dense map, because Comfort was the one that pulled out all the bells and whistles. This is fine. Screw perfect consistency, I'm not making a google translate robot map.
00:21:540 (3) - not sure but i think this would capture the sound better as an 1/4 slider I disagree. As a sharp bass hit at the end of the beat pattern, a circle is more accurate than a 1/4 slider as the players should simply be brief tapping the last bass hit, not holding down for it. And with 144bpm, the difference between tapping a 1/2 and holding down a 1/4 is very different, especially for more experienced singletappers. (Alternators wouldn't even notice)
00:21:749 (1,2,3,4,5) - seem to change around between mapping 2 different layers so i don't know what you're following anymore ? it IS following two layers, namely ones that swap in and out. 00:22:061 (2,3) - is the piano/carnival whine that only plays for those two notes, 00:22:478 (4) - is a connector with the bass, 00:22:686 (5) - is the wub, which unfortunately ends on OMG A STRONG BEAT who cares, 00:22:999 (6,7) - returns to the piano/bassline.
00:31:332 (3) - based on how you mapped 00:30:811 (1,2) - the end ot this should be clickable :// I disagree. If you want to be perfectly consistent and map nothing but a single layer, you're going to end up with a map that doesn't capture the music, especially since this is "only" 144bpm. The biggest issue I personally see with Camellia maps is that mappers get fucking lazy and map just the easiest 1/2 1/4 patterning when shit gets wubby and wobbly. That's boring to me, I don't care how it plays or what people think about consistency. There are a thousand boring ass weeb shit maps people can play if they want to play uniform and consistent beat patterns. Camellia does not bring those to the table and that's why most camellia maps suck, because while they're perfectly playable and functional they barely scratch the surface of the music.
00:37:999 (4) - there's nothing really dominant to be focused on this sliderhead, actually the sound you might want to emphasise in some way is 00:37:895 - as an 1/2 or something but i don't get why this gets a jump yeah, 00:37:895 - should be clickable. It was part of my "lowering density of comfort" setup and it made a lot more sense when Comfort existed.
00:27:895 - isnt this 1/6 or am i dumb You're not dumb but 1/6 streams are horribly out of place in this track and break far past the border of spontaneity.
00:46:853 (1,2,3,4,1) - while i personally don't struggle much with this in particular i can see how people ould hate you for that People will hate me even if I design a map that was literally able to suck their dicks. I like it how it is, 1/6 quads are functional in this map. Single tappers actually get a use for their other finger and alternators need to speed up a bit.
01:14:353 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - have way more energy than "semi-stack"-streamjumps, i'd consider more spacing here because right now this feels rather like a setback instead an intense part which is quite boring for me These particular streams are a big problem for me. They're the biggest single avenue of fucking with the star rating for this map. If I make these jumps, I can easily spike the SR to 5.6 or 5.7 but that's just stupid as hell. I really don't know what to do with these and to be honest at this point I really don't care. I tried reversing the pairs so even if the actual movements aren't as heavy, there's still the illusion of jumpiness. I did the same for the second chorus.
01:17:999 (4) - fuck you i expected this to go the other way around (so 4 and 5 being reversed in terms of direction) I think it's fine right now, as the movement provided is fairly smooth.
01:18:936 (3,4) - why do you mess around with emphasis on slidertails this much if you don't do it anywhere before in kiai I actually had this arleady changed into two triples on the advice of another BN who was checking it but didn't get around to doing the other difficulties.
01:29:978 - sounds more like 01:29:978 - 01:30:030 - 01:30:117 - 01:30:256 - so it's an 1/8 and an 1/3 ? don't even bother trying to make the quavering voice perfect. It's practically impossible and the gameplay will not change in the slightest as long as the player is simply holding down their button.
01:38:415 (4,1) - do yo ueven care about blankets in this at all i don't even fucking see them, fixed i think it's probably uglier because i'm fucking bad.
01:49:562 (1,2) - 01:50:082 (1,2) - nah i dk why you feel the need to stack these on ends just to mindfuck ppl in the end or something ? ? ? it was fine at the start but no fuck it at the ending?

[]

No idea i think this could be structured waaaaaaaaay better and besides if the diff is based on blankets you could have at least put some effort into them :/
I don't think my opinion whether i like this or not is going to change unless you do huge changes to the diff, because as it seems to me now the song makes way more sense within itself than your map within itself and that's not something i can fix for you or that mods can fix for you.

either want to reflect this in your map or you dont and if you don't, don't ask me to icon this because you can't find someone else because everyone is like meh
sorry for wasting your time. I appreciate the feedback, but I know we disagree fundamentally on the whole "everything must be neat und tidy" consistency issues. I've completely fucked the pooch as far as this map goes and I'd just scrap it and move on if it wasn't for Ongaku's excellent insane. It was plenty internally consistent before the DQ brigade popped in and I had to basically field two dozen conflicting opinions and interpretations and suggestions for Comfort, which trickled down into Extra due to it basically being a nerfed Comfort. And now the map is shit and I would totally remap it if not for the fact that people will fucking hate what I do with it as a matter of course at this point.


I don't expect a re-check.
Okoayu
Hey, I never said i fundamentally disagree with how you map in general :D I just fundamentally disagree with what became of this Extra, if you have no Comfort to care about with the Extra then making adjustments so the extra stands "better" on its own seem logical to me.
I just thought this was based on blankets, like as a concept or something so i wondered why half the blankets are somewhat decent and the rest is lol, if you don't care about blankets im not gonna force you haha

I never said everything should be neat and tidy i just thought that was the point here somehow lol

I was bothering to try to make the quavering whatever thing perfect because it sounded horribly off to me, and could have given you a potentially very different rhythm, but ok.
If it feels like i insulted you or the map with any of this, then sorry.
i only dislike stuff in maps and say that. You have to really provoke me to dislike you as a mapper in general xD

I can leave more thoughts if you want to, sure, but I don't know how much sense this makes at this point as im aware that you seem to be rather struggling with LOTS OF CONFLICTING OPINIONS, so giving you more of mine will basically conflict with a bunch of others and that's just dumb past some point.
Also an 1/4 into 1/6 stream played fine for me as i was expecting it to speed up in snapping at the nc spam but then nothing happened and i spammed 100s, i do this over and over lol

tldr: i rarely mean any harm to anyone
Topic Starter
Shiirn
I'm not offended, just extremely tired of dealing with this shitty map. I feel as if it's not even mine anymore and I don't have the will to remap it because I'm just afraid of starting the entire cycle all over again.

You're entirely right that now that Comfort is gone, Extra needs to stand on its own legs as a standalone difficulty, but it doesn't change the fact that I put a dozen times more time and effort into Comfort because it's the highest diff and thereby the showcase. Note this doesn't mean I didn't put effort into the other ones, I easily put over a hundred hours of tweaking and pondering into Comfort, but with its absence Extra now feels like it's missing stuff rather than skipping it in favor of playability.

I care a lot about the blankets but it's extremely hard for me to get them right and I have no idea why, it takes me upwards of five to ten minutes to get a single blanket perfect and since I hate simply copy+pasting sliders or having identical-spaced blankets I end up needing to do that to every slider and it makes my eyes hurt.

I'll put more effort into Extra. I might need to just end up remapping the entire thing and hoping I don't screw it up this time. I always end up acquiescing to small changes BNs suggest but highly recommend because I hope in my heart of hopes they're going to push it forward, and when they don't, I'm left with either discarding the changes they suggested but I didn't really agree with, which seems fairly underhanded, or with having small patches on my map that would feel weird once more and more patches start showing up. That's what happened with Routing. I was simply too accepting of things I disagreed with on the hope that someone would be willing to push the whole set forward, and repeat this a half a dozen times and you're left with this.... crap. 18 pages of discussion and we've still got a pile of crap.
Ongaku
just pay me in kicks per hour and ill do your blankets kappa
Monstrata
This ended up taking a while mainly because of my exams. I really had to focus so yea, everything that I didn't manage to get done last week (during my one free day) had to wait until my next round of exams were finished lol. Now that they are, here's the recheck you've been waiting on. I can icon when you're ready.

[Extra]

00:12:270 (4,5) - Spacing here doesn't seem intentional.
00:16:020 (1,1,2) - I think it's better to start the circle jumps on 00:16:228 - . It sounds more natural to me than 00:16:332 (1) - .
00:57:999 (1) - Not going to add another slider on 00:58:207 - ? It just felt a bit empty for me.
01:16:645 (1) - Ctrl+G is more friendly. Flow's better coming out of the previous two silders.
01:26:853 (2) - Not really getting this slider. I think it's better to shorten to 1/4 and add another circle on 01:27:061 - . Using a sliderend for that beat feels wrong for me haha. It doesn't give proper emphasis imo.

[Ongaku's Another]

00:25:395 (6,8,10) - I'm wondering if you can make the spacing in between these sliders even? Right now 8 and 10 seem more spaced out than 6 and 8. I'm talking about the negative space/blanket space.
00:47:061 (2,4) - Blanket's off if you want to fix it. (It's fine if not tho, hardly noticeable, and it kinda might mess some stuff up)
01:29:978 (1,2,3) - Shouldn't this be 1/6?
01:42:895 (1) - This snapping doesn't align with the snapping in Hyper or Extra. I think Extra/Hyper's snapping is more correct, please doublecheck. Snapping should be consistent on a set except if you are trying to simply a rhythm due to difficulty (1/4 instead of 1/6 for a Hard/Insane).
01:46:228 (1) - and 01:46:228 (1) - ^

[Hyper]

00:37:895 (2,3) - Can you make this blanket more even? Change slider 2 instead of 3, since 1 and 3 are aligned.
00:48:311 (1,2) - Would be cool if these were evenly blanketted.
00:53:104 (5,1) - Spacing doesn't seem right here, looking at the slider-heads. This one's too close together.
Ongaku

Monstrata wrote:

[Ongaku's Another]

00:25:395 (6,8,10) - I'm wondering if you can make the spacing in between these sliders even? Right now 8 and 10 seem more spaced out than 6 and 8. I'm talking about the negative space/blanket space. fixed (ithink)
00:47:061 (2,4) - Blanket's off if you want to fix it. (It's fine if not tho, hardly noticeable, and it kinda might mess some stuff up)
01:29:978 (1,2,3) - Shouldn't this be 1/6? It was 1/6, but since this is an "insane," I toned it down.
01:42:895 (1) - This snapping doesn't align with the snapping in Hyper or Extra. I think Extra/Hyper's snapping is more correct, please doublecheck. Snapping should be consistent on a set except if you are trying to simply a rhythm due to difficulty (1/4 instead of 1/6 for a Hard/Insane). I think I fixed the snapping.
01:46:228 (1) - and 01:46:228 (1) - ^

[Hyper]

00:37:895 (2,3) - Can you make this blanket more even? Change slider 2 instead of 3, since 1 and 3 are aligned. fixed
00:48:311 (1,2) - Would be cool if these were evenly blanketted. fixed
00:53:104 (5,1) - Spacing doesn't seem right here, looking at the slider-heads. This one's too close together. fixed
Thanks mr. ppstrata <3

Ongaku's Another: http://puu.sh/ozkSA/63c7d655c1.osu

Shiirngaku's Hyper: http://puu.sh/ozkLd/ef7d0463a2.osu
Topic Starter
Shiirn

Monstrata wrote:

This ended up taking a while mainly because of my exams. I really had to focus so yea, everything that I didn't manage to get done last week (during my one free day) had to wait until my next round of exams were finished lol. Now that they are, here's the recheck you've been waiting on. I can icon when you're ready.

[Extra]

00:12:270 (4,5) - Spacing here doesn't seem intentional. it's not
00:16:020 (1,1,2) - I think it's better to start the circle jumps on 00:16:228 - . It sounds more natural to me than 00:16:332 (1) - . Sure. Check what I did, comment on it if necessary.
00:57:999 (1) - Not going to add another slider on 00:58:207 - ? It just felt a bit empty for me. This is another one of those "Comfort did it and now everyone's used to seeing it and now that it's gone it feels empty" things. This works perfectly fine as-is I think.
01:16:645 (1) - Ctrl+G is more friendly. Flow's better coming out of the previous two silders. I mean I guess sure but it'll purely be visual as any compotent player will simply wait-hold in the center of the slider after.
01:26:853 (2) - Not really getting this slider. I think it's better to shorten to 1/4 and add another circle on 01:27:061 - . Using a sliderend for that beat feels wrong for me haha. It doesn't give proper emphasis imo. ok
[Ongaku's Another]

00:25:395 (6,8,10) - I'm wondering if you can make the spacing in between these sliders even? Right now 8 and 10 seem more spaced out than 6 and 8. I'm talking about the negative space/blanket space.
00:47:061 (2,4) - Blanket's off if you want to fix it. (It's fine if not tho, hardly noticeable, and it kinda might mess some stuff up)
01:29:978 (1,2,3) - Shouldn't this be 1/6?
01:42:895 (1) - This snapping doesn't align with the snapping in Hyper or Extra. I think Extra/Hyper's snapping is more correct, please doublecheck. Snapping should be consistent on a set except if you are trying to simply a rhythm due to difficulty (1/4 instead of 1/6 for a Hard/Insane). Just wanted to say that this snapping weirdness was a result of a weird resnap part and then i went over it and saw they weren't stacked correctly and 'fixed' it. This was an error and it should be fixed now.
01:46:228 (1) - and 01:46:228 (1) - ^

[Hyper]

00:37:895 (2,3) - Can you make this blanket more even? Change slider 2 instead of 3, since 1 and 3 are aligned.
00:48:311 (1,2) - Would be cool if these were evenly blanketted.
00:53:104 (5,1) - Spacing doesn't seem right here, looking at the slider-heads. This one's too close together.
mainly give input on extra at 00:16:020 - and then whatever happens, happens. I'll poke Bakari as well.
riffy

Shiirn wrote:

i like to pretend that salt is an healthy part of every diet
Rebubbled per mapper's request. Let's give it another chance.
Bursthammy
tfw no comfort



at least its finally happening, bless
Ambient
ayyyyyy, feels good
Natsu
I denied a bunch of kudos (that some BN gave for unknown reasons), let me know if I denied a legit one.
Monstrata
Hmm, alright, lets try this again.

We polished up a lot of patterns/rhythms on Extra before pushing this forward.

Not gonna bother posting logs, you can if you want Shiirn. There's a lot of stuff that's not specifically related to improving the map and im too lazy to edit those out lol.
Topic Starter
Shiirn
I think I kinda said too much in there anyway. Too much to render public, if only for my own dignity.
fieryrage
i saw this being qualified and im like YEAH WE DID IT AMERICA BEST MAP QUALIFIED

slightly depressed that the hardest diff got cut but whatev
-Kanzaki
Extra :
01:42:895 (1,2) - 01:43:520 (1,2) - These are emphasized just as same do you really believe these should be emphasized as the same and you think these are both strong. I believe second one isn't strong as the first one making that flows breaking as same on both isn't really good.

01:28:415 (1) - the thing you followed with this slider 01:28:624 - is actually also here too, why leave empty

01:50:082 (1,2,3) - I don't know while what i am going to say is subjective, breaking flows this much on this sounds are way too much for me i don't think they are so strong to be like others.

00:22:061 (2,3) - 00:15:395 (3,4) - I believe these are similar sounds on the song but the spacing is really different why is that

00:18:728 (3,4) - I totally don't agree with this spacing this one is calmer than others but spaced this much as same as others not good.

00:34:561 (3,4) - This could be high spaced like 00:29:561 (2,3) - and actually 00:34:561 (3,4) - is stronger than this too.

01:29:249 (4,5) - Not strong enough to flow break like this much again.

00:47:061 (4,5) - 00:50:395 (3,4) - aren't these similar some sort of spacing again different and way too much on first

I don't know check if you agree or not most of them is subjective but generally this diff's flows are hell for me and does not plays good for me at all.
MiszczCTB
00:04:249 (1) - Not stacked tho
Osu Mapman
Extra :
00:26:540 (2,3) - no-no this is the right one i guess
Others are just suggestions:
00:31:332 (3,4) - would help keep strong beats clickable
00:32:165 (2,3) - i'd say

There was more but i can't post all of them right now, if there will be a need in continuing this mod poke me via pm or something
Topic Starter
Shiirn

-Kanzaki wrote:

Extra :
01:42:895 (1,2) - 01:43:520 (1,2) - These are emphasized just as same do you really believe these should be emphasized as the same and you think these are both strong. I believe second one isn't strong as the first one making that flows breaking as same on both isn't really good. They're slightly different and that's good enough for me.

01:28:415 (1) - the thing you followed with this slider 01:28:624 - is actually also here too, why leave empty Because the voice is a fucking nightmare to time and it's better to leave empty so it's not confusing as hell.

01:50:082 (1,2,3) - I don't know while what i am going to say is subjective, breaking flows this much on this sounds are way too much for me i don't think they are so strong to be like others. Flow doesn't matter here.

00:22:061 (2,3) - 00:15:395 (3,4) - I believe these are similar sounds on the song but the spacing is really different why is that The spacing is like, maybe a dozen pixels different and even the movements are similar....?

00:18:728 (3,4) - I totally don't agree with this spacing this one is calmer than others but spaced this much as same as others not good. Can you even play this difficulty? 1/4 spacing at 144 bpm between circles and sliders is actually extremely easy. I think you played it like once.

00:34:561 (3,4) - This could be high spaced like 00:29:561 (2,3) - and actually 00:34:561 (3,4) - is stronger than this too. The entire point is that the sharp movement is on 2,3. After that, 4 is simply ending the pattern, the spacing being low is irrelevant.

01:29:249 (4,5) - Not strong enough to flow break like this much again. Any suggestions regarding "flow" will be discarded. I intentionally break flow, and if you disagree with how I break flow, just call me a shitty mapper.

00:47:061 (4,5) - 00:50:395 (3,4) - aren't these similar some sort of spacing again different and way too much on first 50:395 has a much harder 1/4 roll after it that is the focus of the pattern. 47:061 focuses on the 1/6th roll and emphasizes that.

I don't know check if you agree or not most of them is subjective but generally this diff's flows are hell for me and does not plays good for me at all. That's just unfortunate then. I don't want to channel hollow wings here but if it plays badly for you, good. Not everyone is capable of playing maps intentionally made to bring challenges other than "1/2 jumps" and that's completely fine.
If you only play this map once, don't bother suggesting anything. As alien as it sounds, Routing is meant to be played multiple times to get a feel for how the music works. The map follows from the music. My maps are always hard to read because of this. If you want 3-retry-fcs, you're playing maps from the wrong mapper.

EvilElvis wrote:

Extra :
00:26:540 (2,3) - no-no this is the right one i guess 00:26:645 (3) - is actually representing the background 1/4 tremble. It plays fine.
Others are just suggestions:
00:31:332 (3,4) - would help keep strong beats clickable Strong beats being clickable is irrelevant. These two sliders are very simple to hit and are meant to be that way. Literally doubling the number of clicks to make sure that the strong beats "get their due" would make the experience completely different.
00:32:165 (2,3) - i'd say I disagree. I'm okay with how the current click patterns are.

There was more but i can't post all of them right now, if there will be a need in continuing this mod poke me via pm or something

In the interest of saving everyone's time, especially helpful passerby modders, let me say this:

Anything that is not directly unrankable and can be classified as "subjective" or "issues with consistency" will be subsequently denied.

Please don't waste my or your time as I have gone over every inch of this map and while I don't believe it is perfect nor that it reaches my vision of what this map can be, it is viable enough for the purposes of ranking. Anything that can be mentioned regarding consistency is inconsistent for a reason. You may not like the reason, but unless you are a QAT specifically going to DQ the map because you disagree with me, we're going to have to live with said disagreement staining our lives forevermore.

If you're disappointed in me as a mapper or you don't like this map: I don't care. This map started off as a simple happy, vibrant, barely contained explosion of energy, and now it's just a pile of conflicting opinions from people I barely respect, much less like, who forced themselves onto the map as if it were their civic duty to make me "see the light" and "accept consistency".

Routing, as are most of my maps, was about providing an experience to the player. The "issues" with consistency were intentional and brought to the player a sense of slight confusion, happy-go-lucky energy, and, if I did things right, a barely contained sense of panic while maintaining a full combo. This applies to all the difficulties (Well, maybe just Hyper and above, as that kind of experience isn't possible to give Normal level players), not just Comfort, and while a lot of my vision has been lost underneath a bunch of "mapping consistency experts" analyzing every object of my map, I've tried to make this map as palatable as possible for this poor modern community that is so obsessed with everything being structured and robotic because they're used to maps designed to give pp rather than designed to be fun.

Everyone has fun in different ways, and my maps are hopefully different enough to provide a variety of experiences to where an individual would find at least some of my maps very fun. If their tastes don't have a fit among my maps, then that's just unfortunate because they probably genuinely enjoy farming tvsize dnb maps to raise a number on their profile page.
Natsu

Shiirn wrote:

In the interest of saving everyone's time, especially helpful passerby modders, let me say this:

Anything that is not directly unrankable and can be classified as "subjective" or "issues with consistency" will be subsequently denied.

Please don't waste my or your time as I have gone over every inch of this map and while I don't believe it is perfect nor that it reaches my vision of what this map can be, it is viable enough for the purposes of ranking. Anything that can be mentioned regarding consistency is inconsistent for a reason. You may not like the reason, but unless you are a QAT specifically going to DQ the map because you disagree with me, we're going to have to live with said disagreement staining our lives forevermore.

If you're disappointed in me as a mapper or you don't like this map: I don't care. This map started off as a simple happy, vibrant, barely contained explosion of energy, and now it's just a pile of conflicting opinions from people I barely respect, much less like, who forced themselves onto the map as if it were their civic duty to make me "see the light" and "accept consistency".

Man don't discourage modders to take a look at your map in qualify category wdf, People are supposed to do mods like that, even if subjetive or anything, if there are improvement for the map they should be taked, the community is the one that report maps to QATs. Also take a look a this too for more information:


p/5068249
Topic Starter
Shiirn
People can look all they want. But I'm very, very, very tired of this map and I am outright scared of the prospect of needing to spend a week defending every object of this map again and if I can lighten the load by cutting off certain forms of modding that will be a waste of time for the modder and nothing but stress for me, I will try to do so.

I think you and I both know that there are going to be many people unhappy with this map. I can safely say that I don't care. I know plenty of people who support the map. I'd much rather have a map with polarized opinions rather than a boring, unobtrusive pile of notes nobody cares about.

And you know I'm up to date with politics.


For what it's worth, if a QAT member says "Fix X Y and Z these are unrankable to me" I'll do it in a heartbeat as long as they requalify the map afterwards. You guys can do whatever the hell you want to the map now. It's not my map anymore. I've tried to keep this map in my original vision and it's apparent that I've not made the map as palatable as possible for people who disagree with my mapping concepts. If I need to directly change half the map to satisfy them (if, and only if, they are willing to push the map back into the ranking process and they're not just slinging opinions from on high, because it's seriously offensive to have a map DQ'd and then receive no aid whatsoever to bring it back), I will gladly do so. Again, it's not my map anymore. It's the "consistency brigade"'s.
-Kanzaki
I can pass with HR if you want. I am just saying your style has bad flows and technically plays bad thats all, but this is just a comment ignore that, i showed you valid stuff on your map where you did it on somewheres that you didn't on other same parts.

But you are telling me that flow doesn't matter? You emphasize stuff with flow breaks, you do stuff when you flow break.

Shiirn wrote:

Extra :
01:42:895 (1,2) - 01:43:520 (1,2) - These are emphasized just as same do you really believe these should be emphasized as the same and you think these are both strong. I believe second one isn't strong as the first one making that flows breaking as same on both isn't really good. They're slightly different and that's good enough for me.

01:28:415 (1) - the thing you followed with this slider 01:28:624 - is actually also here too, why leave empty Because the voice is a fucking nightmare to time and it's better to leave empty so it's not confusing as hell.

01:50:082 (1,2,3) - I don't know while what i am going to say is subjective, breaking flows this much on this sounds are way too much for me i don't think they are so strong to be like others. Flow doesn't matter here. How flow doesn't matter on anywhere anyway. You are adding a feeling with that flow and it makes player get excited on here. But you say it doesn't matter

00:22:061 (2,3) - 00:15:395 (3,4) - I believe these are similar sounds on the song but the spacing is really different why is that The spacing is like, maybe a dozen pixels different and even the movements are similar....? It is not similar difficulty

00:18:728 (3,4) - I totally don't agree with this spacing this one is calmer than others but spaced this much as same as others not good. Can you even play this difficulty? 1/4 spacing at 144 bpm between circles and sliders is actually extremely easy. I think you played it like once. I am asking you why did you map this same as others while it is calmer in song. You are telling me it is also easy to play like others???

00:34:561 (3,4) - This could be high spaced like 00:29:561 (2,3) - and actually 00:34:561 (3,4) - is stronger than this too. The entire point is that the sharp movement is on 2,3. After that, 4 is simply ending the pattern, the spacing being low is irrelevant.

01:29:249 (4,5) - Not strong enough to flow break like this much again. Any suggestions regarding "flow" will be discarded. I intentionally break flow, and if you disagree with how I break flow, just call me a shitty mapper. Yea i will make screen jumps on calmest parts of the song too.

00:47:061 (4,5) - 00:50:395 (3,4) - aren't these similar some sort of spacing again different and way too much on first 50:395 has a much harder 1/4 roll after it that is the focus of the pattern. 47:061 focuses on the 1/6th roll and emphasizes that.

I don't know check if you agree or not most of them is subjective but generally this diff's flows are hell for me and does not plays good for me at all. That's just unfortunate then. I don't want to channel hollow wings here but if it plays badly for you, good. Not everyone is capable of playing maps intentionally made to bring challenges other than "1/2 jumps" and that's completely fine.
:D:D Yea its you that you cant play your own map. I always say if you cant play your map you shouldn't expect something good, there are some people can do it but not so many people.

If you only play this map once, don't bother suggesting anything. As alien as it sounds, Routing is meant to be played multiple times to get a feel for how the music works. The map follows from the music. My maps are always hard to read because of this. If you want 3-retry-fcs, you're playing maps from the wrong mapper. It is not hard to read at all.




In the interest of saving everyone's time, especially helpful passerby modders, let me say this:

Anything that is not directly unrankable and can be classified as "subjective" or "issues with consistency" will be subsequently denied. Yea really? Quality also something subjective too for me bt as you can see it is something for real on mapping and ranking process.

Please don't waste my or your time as I have gone over every inch of this map and while I don't believe it is perfect nor that it reaches my vision of what this map can be, it is viable enough for the purposes of ranking. Anything that can be mentioned regarding consistency is inconsistent for a reason. You may not like the reason, but unless you are a QAT specifically going to DQ the map because you disagree with me, we're going to have to live with said disagreement staining our lives forevermore.

If you're disappointed in me as a mapper or you don't like this map: I don't care. This map started off as a simple happy, vibrant, barely contained explosion of energy, and now it's just a pile of conflicting opinions from people I barely respect, much less like, who forced themselves onto the map as if it were their civic duty to make me "see the light" and "accept consistency".

Routing, as are most of my maps, was about providing an experience to the player. The "issues" with consistency were intentional and brought to the player a sense of slight confusion, happy-go-lucky energy, and, if I did things right, a barely contained sense of panic while maintaining a full combo. This applies to all the difficulties (Well, maybe just Hyper and above, as that kind of experience isn't possible to give Normal level players), not just Comfort, and while a lot of my vision has been lost underneath a bunch of "mapping consistency experts" analyzing every object of my map, I've tried to make this map as palatable as possible for this poor modern community that is so obsessed with everything being structured and robotic because they're used to maps designed to give pp rather than designed to be fun.

Everyone has fun in different ways, and my maps are hopefully different enough to provide a variety of experiences to where an individual would find at least some of my maps very fun. If their tastes don't have a fit among my maps, then that's just unfortunate because they probably genuinely enjoy farming tvsize dnb maps to raise a number on their profile page.[/quote]
''Can you even play this difficulty? 1/4 spacing at 144 bpm between circles and sliders is actually extremely easy. I think you played it like once.''
I am asking you why is it same as the others


I didn't mod this because it was too hard to play at least not for me but your reasonings are like , ''its my style'' or ''i dont think you cant even play it'' are not valid. And you are rude as fuck mate as you can see what natsu said its a thing now. If community doesn't checks the qualified maps everything can be ranked now if nobody checked it.
Raiden
Mind you, QATs don't have the same authority as they did before. So don't bother saying stuff like "if a QAT tells me to X, I will do X" because that's not how this works anymore.

For more info: p/5068249

Edit: it seems I didn't read Natsu's post thouroughly lol
Topic Starter
Shiirn
I was not saying I will do what a QAT asks because it's their job, but because QAT are the only people I trust to have at least a basic understanding of mapping beyond that of people who are randomly modding maps with concepts a few years beyond their understanding. (I am not pointing a finger at kanzaki, but namely the previous DQ as well and i'm sure there are people in the future who will mod this with little to no mapping experience if it doesn't get DQ'd in like ten minutes by Fycho)

This used to be my map. But by putting the opinions of everyone else over mine, this is what you end up with.


My point regarding flow and consistency is that I am bringing my own vision of what this music should be represented as. If you disagree, we're going to disagree. If it's bad enough that the community (and by that mean the vocal minority because when you involve the community it is always the loudest voices that get the attention, not necessarily the highest volume of people) wants it to never ever be ranked because it's unacceptable to have a map that is completely different then so be it - I'll led this map grave. Ongaku has given me his blessing that if ranking this becomes to much of a stressor, to give up.

And that's what it boils down to. People wanting me to give up, rather than actually make the map better. They want it better in their own opinion, fuck my feelings.
-Kanzaki
It wasn't even an usual mod. I am asking about your objects but you can't answer their reasons. Which leads to they are meant to be random placed objects?
Loctav
Sadly, you have to make an agreement with the community, not with the QAT. They won't judge your map anymore. So better put the effort to convince people raising concerns here that this creation is fine as it is or do not try to get it Ranked.
Natsu
gonna bring my opinions on this as well:

  1. 00:26:540 (2,3) - is pretty obvious that your rhythm is following the song in the wrong way, I checked your reply to Elvis mod and still don't make much sense, the 1/4 thing already started before that, following the active beats is what will be more intuitive, actually every suggestion from Elvis is not subjetive o.o, but really objetive talking about correct rhythm ofc.
  2. 00:27:895 (1,1,1,1) - spamming combos looks nice? because the stream is pretty much the smae 1/4 the only thing that changes is that is stacked, so the only NC that you need is 00:27:895 (1) -
  3. 00:57:999 (1) - 01:01:332 (1,2) - 01:04:665 (1) - 01:07:999 (1) - why are these mapped in different way ? since is the same music at both places, unless your rhythm is inconsistent on purpose, I don't see any other reason to do this. Just make 01:01:332 (1,2) - like the other ones.
  4. 01:09:665 - sounds super weird that you are ignoring this loud beat :l
  5. 01:42:895 (1,2) - Why are you doing the manual stack at this kind of patterns now, when you didn't before for example 00:02:895 (1,2) - , looks inconsistent and not something that we gonna expect from an experienced mapper, specially whe multiple people are telling you to be more consistent with this map.
  6. Also there are a bunch of inconsistencies, overall the design is poor made IMO, and there are a bunch of blankets off, I mean if your archive is to make rankable maps then is fine, but I really think you could do alot better than this, specially with tiny stuff like blankets to important stuff as is the rhythm of the song >:
Beginner:

  1. 00:08:311 (1,2) - 1,0 spacing, but 01:06:645 (1,2) - 1,10 here, seems there is a small error
  2. 01:40:811 (1,1,2) - here too
anyways gl with this
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