Camellia - Routing · forum

The Emperor

Joined September 2014

The Emperor 2016-02-14T21:31:52+00:00

I think the Confort diff is really good, it reflects the song very well. I don't really get what people mean when they are saying its not structured, its not like i know anything about mapping or can really play this diff but to me it looks like it keeps the same mapping style true out the map and notes are placed relatively to the rest isn't that structured then?

It seems to me that alot of people don't like the map and says its bad because its a different mapping style than normal.

fieryrage

osu! Champion / Elite Nominator II

1,402 posts

Joined November 2013

fieryrage 2016-02-14T22:32:43+00:00

Jesus fucking christ, this turned into a shitshow. Alright. Take 2. Not touching the easy to insane diffs because those seem to be alright for now.

ok

extra
aka the "this should be 6 stars how the fuck is this 5.42" difficulty

00:02:061 (2,3,4,5) - I get that you try to make the mapping style unique and all but these patterns just look ugly and make me sad, might be better off doing a linear style pattern just so there's less cluster and confusion or something (because I mean you did basically what I just suggested here 00:03:728 (2,3,4,5) - so uhh??)
00:04:249 (6) - NC this to maintain consistency with 00:10:915 (1)
00:05:395 (1) - remove NC, or NC 00:02:061 (2) - and any other intro patterns like this to maintain consistency
00:09:665 (7) - NC might be better here to showcase the jump
00:12:895 (1,2,3,4) - I really don't like how tight the jump is between 00:12:895 (1,2,3) - it makes the entire pattern play really badly. Maybe increase the spacing between 1 and 2?
00:25:186 (1) - yo why is this a NC as well as 00:25:395 (1) - ??
00:26:020 (1) - ^ I'm seriously confused by this
00:27:895 (1,1,1,1) - honestly this would be a lot better playability-wise as a 1/6 stream or repeat slider like in Comfort, because while this follows the rhythm technically it just aaaa it doesn't feel right with the emphasis on the synth; also I don't really think NC spam is needed here
00:34:145 (1,1,2,1) - NC's here are a bit fucky imo, could be better by removing NC at 00:34:457 (1) - and placing it 00:34:561 (2) - and removing the NC on the slider after
00:35:533 (1,1,1,1,1) - still don't think NC spam works here
00:38:311 (6) - NC for downbeat?
00:39:770 (3) - this might be better as a single note, and then putting the spinner on the blue tick
00:44:353 (3,1) - jump is a bit overkill for this difficulty imo, put 1 closer to the sliderend of 3 like this or something
00:46:645 (1,1) - basically same thing here although I'm not really sure that's an easy fix with how you designed the rest of the things following it
00:48:311 (5) - NC for downbeat?
00:55:915 (1) - maybe extend this slider to the blue tick? I think it flows better that way
01:04:978 (1) - I don't really get why you put a spinner here instead of just using the same rhythm you've used for the past two things like this
01:09:561 (1) - this is actually really good sliderart tbh
01:24:040 (2,3,1) - this pattern would flow a lot better by removing 3 and just having 2 be a 1/8 repeat slider imo
01:25:186 (1) - remove NC since there's a spinner directly after (is this against the ranking criteria idfk)
01:29:978 (6) - NC for downbeat?
01:32:686 (4) - NC since this is basically an entirely new pattern separate from the previous one
01:39:874 (1) - remove NC for the spinner again
01:42:061 (2,3,4,5) - same thing that I said for 00:02:061 (2,3,4,5) - applies here too
01:45:394 (2,3,4,5) - ^
01:50:082 (3) - NC this since it's a new pattern
01:52:895 (1,2,3,4) - again, I think this jump could be a bit more spaced in terms of the spacing between 1 and 2

comfort

00:20:395 (1,2,3,4) - this pattern plays really awkwardly in comparison to everything else, adding a curve between 2 and 3 helps a bit
01:09:978 (1) - remove NC cuz the spinner again
01:14:561 (3,5) - NC these two? you did it in the extra difficulty and I think it'd work well here for readability
01:19:770 (7) - why does the kiai end here and then start again??? there's no difference in beats
01:21:020 (2,4,6) - NC these and remove NC on 01:20:915 (1) - for the same reason as 01:14:561 (3,5)
01:21:645 (1,2,3) - previous pattern like this didn't have 1/8 after it, so why does this one have it?
01:39:874 (1) - remove NC cuz spinner I'm starting to question my thought process behind removing these tbh
01:42:061 (2,3,4,5) - holy spacing this is a calm part man clam down

Don't really have much to say on the Comfort difficulty, I personally enjoy the patterns but there's at least some things in there.

Anxient

1,568 posts

Joined June 2014

Anxient 2016-02-14T23:07:26+00:00

placeholder coz im modding this (literally)

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-02-14T23:17:43+00:00

fieryrage wrote:
Jesus fucking christ, this turned into a shitshow. Alright. Take 2. Not touching the easy to insane diffs because those seem to be alright for now.

ok
extra
aka the "this should be 6 stars how the fuck is this 5.42" difficulty

00:02:061 (2,3,4,5) - I get that you try to make the mapping style unique and all but these patterns just look ugly and make me sad, might be better off doing a linear style pattern just so there's less cluster and confusion or something (because I mean you did basically what I just suggested here 00:03:728 (2,3,4,5) - so uhh??)2 was actually missnapped somehow, moved back to its proper place, also, fuck linear, and there is a bass hit on the first pattern that lets it work fine, the second pattern is different because the music is different
00:04:249 (6) - NC this to maintain consistency with 00:10:915 (1) Done
00:05:395 (1) - remove NC, or NC 00:02:061 (2) - and any other intro patterns like this to maintain consistency Added a new combo by re-organizing the pattern so i could get a bass click in there
00:09:665 (7) - NC might be better here to showcase the jump Done
00:12:895 (1,2,3,4) - I really don't like how tight the jump is between 00:12:895 (1,2,3) - it makes the entire pattern play really badly. Maybe increase the spacing between 1 and 2? Changed so that the 4 notes go over the next 7 stream's structure. inb4 people whine its not a square
00:25:186 (1) - yo why is this a NC as well as 00:25:395 (1) - ?? Emphasis on the single instrument used there. it's an aesthetics thing.
00:26:020 (1) - ^ I'm seriously confused by this ^
00:27:895 (1,1,1,1) - honestly this would be a lot better playability-wise as a 1/6 stream or repeat slider like in Comfort, because while this follows the rhythm technically it just aaaa it doesn't feel right with the emphasis on the synth; also I don't really think NC spam is needed here The nc was for pretty aesthetics to emphasize the 1/8 roll but i mean the ranking criteria has had 5 years to pin down a rule of "in cases where a 1/6 or 1/8 stream would be too difficult, you can ignore the exact timing to use a 1/4 or 1/6 stream" and hasn't so i dont know exactly what to do here.
00:34:145 (1,1,2,1) - NC's here are a bit fucky imo, could be better by removing NC at 00:34:457 (1) - and placing it 00:34:561 (2) - and removing the NC on the slider after redid the ncs
00:35:533 (1,1,1,1,1) - still don't think NC spam works here i dont either but i mean i take suggestions too easily sometimes. ncs removed and will leave it removed.
00:38:311 (6) - NC for downbeat? Ok
00:39:770 (3) - this might be better as a single note, and then putting the spinner on the blue tick I like the bass = slider general rule. it doesn't ruin the spinner either.
00:44:353 (3,1) - jump is a bit overkill for this difficulty imo, put 1 closer to the sliderend of 3 like this or something
00:46:645 (1,1) - basically same thing here although I'm not really sure that's an easy fix with how you designed the rest of the things following it
00:48:311 (5) - NC for downbeat? Ok
00:55:915 (1) - maybe extend this slider to the blue tick? I think it flows better that way Ok
01:04:978 (1) - I don't really get why you put a spinner here instead of just using the same rhythm you've used for the past two things like thisOk
01:09:561 (1) - this is actually really good sliderart tbh Ok
01:24:040 (2,3,1) - this pattern would flow a lot better by removing 3 and just having 2 be a 1/8 repeat slider imo Ok
01:25:186 (1) - remove NC since there's a spinner directly after (is this against the ranking criteria idfk) Ok
01:29:978 (6) - NC for downbeat? Ok
01:32:686 (4) - NC since this is basically an entirely new pattern separate from the previous one Ok
01:39:874 (1) - remove NC for the spinner again Ok
01:42:061 (2,3,4,5) - same thing that I said for 00:02:061 (2,3,4,5) - applies here too STAAAACKING
01:45:394 (2,3,4,5) - ^STAAAACKING
01:50:082 (3) - NC this since it's a new pattern Ok
01:52:895 (1,2,3,4) - again, I think this jump could be a bit more spaced in terms of the spacing between 1 and 2 Ok

comfort

00:20:395 (1,2,3,4) - this pattern plays really awkwardly in comparison to everything else, adding a curve between 2 and 3 helps a bit
01:09:978 (1) - remove NC cuz the spinner again Ok
01:14:561 (3,5) - NC these two? you did it in the extra difficulty and I think it'd work well here for readability Ok
01:19:770 (7) - why does the kiai end here and then start again??? there's no difference in beats fountains br000000
01:21:020 (2,4,6) - NC these and remove NC on 01:20:915 (1) - for the same reason as 01:14:561 (3,5) Ok
01:21:645 (1,2,3) - previous pattern like this didn't have 1/8 after it, so why does this one have it?
01:39:874 (1) - remove NC cuz spinner I'm starting to question my thought process behind removing these tbh
01:42:061 (2,3,4,5) - holy spacing this is a calm part man clam down Ok

Don't really have much to say on the Comfort difficulty, I personally enjoy the patterns but there's at least some things in there.

man i'm getting tired i might need a break for a bit

Liiraye

1,354 posts

Joined December 2011

Liiraye 2016-02-14T23:23:42+00:00

did I hear take a brea-

22:24 Nube: hay shirno
22:25 Nube: 00:20:811 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - like I said before I love this rhythm and I think it would be nice to play the same rhythm here 00:34:145 (6,1,1,2,3) -
22:26 Nube: at least when it comes to the slider on the vocals
22:26 Nube: it has great impact in the first example
22:27 Shiirn: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAA
22:27 Shiirn: stop
22:27 Shiirn: let me post
22:27 Shiirn: p/4896426
22:27 Nube: xdxdxd
22:28 Shiirn: but its not the same rhythm
22:28 Shiirn: it only does the wub once
22:28 Shiirn: so i only do the slider once
22:28 Nube: but for example not starting the slider 00:34:145 (6) - makes little sense to me
22:29 Nube: instead you start it on a nearly inaudible sound in comparison to the music
22:29 Shiirn: 00:34:249 (1) - this is on the wub
22:29 Shiirn: rather than the bass
22:29 Shiirn: cuz i cant put a slider on both
22:31 Nube: wouldn't you say (6) is the start of a new pattern there?
22:31 Nube: idk it may not be very important
22:31 Nube: it's just something I felt lost a bit of impact
22:31 Nube: even making short sliders would work for me
22:32 Nube: i'd give you a pic but my push is acting up
22:32 Nube: so instead im awkwardly silent
22:33 Shiirn: o.o
22:33 Shiirn: lol
22:33 Nube: but yeah I get that it's different rhythm wise, had to slow it down a bit
22:34 Nube: but I still feel it could get greater impact being mapped similarly as the first

22:34 Shiirn: mmmm
22:34 Shiirn: that's a tough one
22:34 Shiirn: honestly
22:34 Shiirn: like i see your point
22:34 Shiirn: but now i ahve to think
22:34 Shiirn: "what am i gonig to do"
22:34 Nube: I was thinking
22:34 Nube: note here 00:34:561
22:35 Nube: 1/4 slider here 00:34:665
22:35 Nube: note here 00:34:874
22:35 Nube: 00:34:874
22:35 Shiirn: 00:34:665 (3) - so make this 1/4?
22:35 Nube: ye and adding a note behind
22:35 Nube: also I would love to see 6 as a slider but thats fine if you dont want to change
22:36 Nube: as I believe it supports this pattern more than the one right before it
22:36 Shiirn: yeah 6 as a slider is
22:36 Shiirn: like i normally do
22:36 Shiirn: i totally do cuz of the bass
22:36 Shiirn: but idk how to apply the single wub of the same style that happend 3 times in a row previously
22:36 Shiirn: while having a slider for the bass
22:43 Shiirn: ok well i did the 1/4 slider thing cuz ur right, it deserves a note
22:43 Shiirn: still dont know what to do with the bass but ill leave it (HOW DARE I DENY MODS OMG EVIL MAPPER ETC ETC)
22:48 Nube: i reworked it to something I felt played really well
22:48 Nube: only problem is how I show it to you
22:49 Nube: ok i named it comfort2
22:49 Shiirn: loool
22:49 Nube: http://puu.sh/n833F/2609d4022a.osu
22:50 Nube: err keep in mind the unicode fucked up there
22:50 Nube: always does for me for some reason I cba to look into
22:50 Shiirn: yeah
22:50 Shiirn: puush + unicode = boom
22:51 Shiirn: let's see here
22:52 Shiirn: let's see
22:52 Shiirn: ugh
22:52 Shiirn: it ignores the wub entirely
22:52 Shiirn: T_T
22:53 Nube: if you listed to it in 100% speed
22:53 Nube: which I guess is what people will be playing this as
22:53 Shiirn: true
22:53 Nube: the wub is barely noticable
22:53 Shiirn: you're right
22:54 Nube: :v
22:54 Shiirn: you're riiiiight
22:54 Nube: well how it looks is completely up to you
22:54 Shiirn: ill remap it a bit
22:54 Nube: thats just something I threw together
22:54 Nube: xd
22:55 Shiirn: feel free to post irc logs
22:55 Shiirn: for kd
22:55 Shiirn: cuz im implementing
22:55 Nube: I'll probably do some more modding if thats the case
22:55 Nube: see if I find something else
22:56 Shiirn: yeah
22:56 Nube: shit you'll steal my mod virginity
22:56 Nube: for almost 2 years
22:56 Shiirn: looool
23:01 Nube: how about having this slider 00:30:603 (2) - like this instead for the back and forth movement you're going for throughout the map, I think it plays smooth https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4535394
23:01 Shiirn: mmm
23:01 Shiirn: you mean more like
23:01 Shiirn: ah i see what you're saying
23:01 Nube: I think the angle you have atm is a bit awkward but I see why you're doing it
23:01 Shiirn: lemme think about it for a bit
23:02 Shiirn: you're right
23:03 Shiirn: i think having it be less of a rotational mirror
23:03 Shiirn: having it be a cascading-out pattern would be really neat
23:03 Shiirn: also change ur skin DAMN EVERYTHING IS WHITE
23:03 Nube: wahaha yeah I usually use default skin when mapping
23:03 Nube: just played something before so I forgot to change
23:06 Nube: I still dont like these at all xd 00:09:561 (1,2,1,2) -
23:07 Nube: not only that 00:09:665 (2) - ends on a really strong note with the slider, but because the movement is really weird and for the start of the map idk, it's really hard to predict
23:07 Nube: or to read is probably the better word
23:07 Nube: I see that you use similar patterns
23:07 Nube: 00:16:228 (1,2) -
23:07 Nube: for example
23:07 Nube: but then the song has kicked in
23:07 Nube: I think going crazy then is fine
23:09 Nube: but if anything I'd just prefer having that combo 2 end on a circle by shortening it a little
23:10 Nube: 01:01:436 (2) - this would play 10x better if it was 3 circles according to the scratch which is 1/6
23:11 Nube: something like this http://puu.sh/n84xQ/078d4f40a2.jpg
23:11 Shiirn: back
23:11 Shiirn: uhhh
23:12 Nube: again going by the most prominent sound 100% speed
23:12 *Shiirn reads
23:12 Nube: it feels you're missing out by having a slider there
23:12 Shiirn: i was afk
23:12 Shiirn: LOL
23:12 Shiirn: I GOTTA READ
23:12 Nube: yeye ye its fine I just throw in what I find xdd
23:13 Nube: feel free to respond whenever
23:13 Shiirn: 00:09:561 (1,2,1,2) - THESE ARE STAYING
23:13 Shiirn: MWAHAHA
23:13 Shiirn: IM SO EVIL I DENY ALL MODS
23:13 Shiirn: i love how they play
23:13 Shiirn: idk
23:14 Nube: ghahah
23:14 Nube: shiiii
23:14 Shiirn: i reworked 00:09:665 (2) - pattern
23:14 Nube: well if you're reworking, I'd suggest double checking the flow in this section 00:31:853 (1,1,2,3,4) -
23:15 Shiirn: 01:01:436 (2) - i was told by a BN
23:15 Shiirn: this was 1/6 before
23:15 Shiirn: but it was an awkward hold
23:15 Shiirn: idk what to do
23:15 Nube: movements feel pretty straight and awks
23:15 Nube: hm
23:15 Nube: I feel the 1/6 is what you hear
23:15 Nube: when you play this part
23:16 Nube: I'd map it for that alone
23:16 Nube: if you see a still slider with that sound in it you'll be confused
23:16 Nube: haha
23:16 Shiirn: i mean
23:17 Shiirn: it was a repeat
23:17 Shiirn: but it was played as a 1/4 slider
23:17 Shiirn: at this speed
23:17 Shiirn: mishitting will break combo
23:17 Nube: you have a 1/8 triple here tho lol 01:06:540 (3,4) -
23:17 Nube: just a few sec after
23:18 Shiirn: because its clearly a 1/8 triple
23:18 Shiirn: a 1/6 kick slider played as a 1/4 slider that's tapped
23:18 Shiirn: will sometimes break
23:18 Shiirn: and it feels unfair to the player
23:18 Shiirn: cuz the instinct is to tap it like a 1/4 slider especially when the other slider snext to it
23:18 Shiirn: are, well, 1/4
23:19 Nube: well I proposed a 4x stream in which the last note is a slider
23:19 Nube: in high density, it's not that hard to hit right
23:19 Shiirn: oh a 1/6 stream
23:19 Shiirn: hmmm
23:19 Nube: especially considering this song
23:19 Nube: like the pic I provided
23:19 Nube: also just for lulz
23:19 Shiirn: i mean
23:19 Nube: 01:06:645 (1,2,3,4,5) - this could increase the star rating by like 1 star
23:19 Nube: if you wanted
23:19 Nube: LOL
23:20 Shiirn: ?
23:20 Nube: all those sounds in the sliders
23:20 Shiirn: yeah
23:20 Shiirn: i am aware
23:20 Shiirn: i specifically dont map them
23:20 Shiirn: cuz this shit is hard enough to rank as-is and everyone loves the bass sliders
23:20 Nube: I think this is fine
23:20 Nube: yea
23:20 Nube: they are nice
23:21 Nube: was just playing with the idea of ending up with a 9* map after DQ
23:22 Shiirn: rofl
23:22 Shiirn: i had a 9* map
23:22 Shiirn: it was dumb
23:24 Nube: I have to be honest
23:24 Nube: I'm trying to understand the kiai
23:24 Nube: but it's just blank in my head
23:24 Nube: at least the second one
23:24 Nube: haha
23:24 Nube: playtesting wont do because I can't even read this
23:24 Shiirn: its mapped more to intensity than anything else
23:24 Nube: I think the slidershapes are what confuses me
23:24 Nube: so many oddly angled c sliders
23:25 Shiirn: possibly
23:25 Shiirn: they're honecombed patterns
23:25 Shiirn: 01:28:520 (3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4) -
23:25 Shiirn: blankets
23:25 Nube: 01:32:478 (1,2,3,4,5,1) - trying to play this is just really hard
23:25 Nube: which is a given
23:26 Nube: but unnecessarily hard I'd say
23:26 Nube: imo because of the slidershapes and angles they are facing
23:26 Shiirn: bear in mind
23:26 Shiirn: players, at this level
23:26 Shiirn: are going to be hitting and going straight to the next note
23:26 Nube: but those you linked make sense
23:26 Nube: they kinda flow well
23:27 Shiirn: i want the sliders to point AT somewhere else
23:27 Shiirn: without them 100ing
23:27 Shiirn: the actual curve doesnt matter
23:27 Shiirn: past a certain angle
23:28 Nube: well you do as you like, I'm just pointing out my concern that if the sliders looked different /faced different directions it would play way better
23:28 Nube: if anyone dares to touch those in a mod
23:28 Nube: I'm certain you'll hear it again
23:29 Nube: curves do matter when playing
23:29 Nube: it can really mess with the flow
23:29 Shiirn: i am aware
23:29 Shiirn: believe me i am aware
23:30 Nube: 01:17:478 (1,2) - this movement for example
23:30 Nube: if you'd go for a straight line you might sliderbreak
23:31 Shiirn: good catch
23:31 *Shiirn ctrl+g's
23:31 Shiirn: that's some of what millhiore was mentioning
23:31 Shiirn: in his DQ mod
23:31 Shiirn: just making sure the sliders point the right direction
23:31 Shiirn: moved 1 to be closer
23:31 Shiirn: so that jump isnt as dumb
23:31 Nube: I'd say something like this would even work better https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4535579
23:32 Nube: easier to read too
23:32 Shiirn: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4535584
23:32 Nube: personally I'd rework those 4 sliders as in perhaps making a flipped (2) slider above it as combo 3 then keep the others as 4 and 5
23:33 Nube: but thats just my style
23:33 Nube: I guess
23:33 Shiirn: stop kill my mapper spirit
23:33 Nube: sry ;_;
23:33 Shiirn: no no is joke
23:34 Nube: placing 01:18:936 (1,2,3) - stacked behind 01:18:415 (6) - would improve the flow in that pattern
23:35 Shiirn: ok
23:35 Shiirn: done
23:35 Nube: 01:20:915 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1) - lol this is nice
23:35 Shiirn: SEE THAT'S EASY
23:35 Shiirn: that offbeqat ladder
23:35 Shiirn: so hard to play
23:35 Shiirn: but so rewarding
23:36 Nube: 01:30:186 (2) -
23:36 Nube: why doesnt this end on the blue tick
23:36 Nube: actually
23:36 Nube: nvm
23:36 Nube: thats misplaced entirely
23:37 Nube: I get this http://puu.sh/n86oT/194313b888.jpg
23:37 Shiirn: yeah uh
23:37 Shiirn: dont try to map the vocals
23:37 Shiirn: you'll just get a headache
23:37 Nube: but you are mapping them
23:37 Nube: x)
23:38 Nube: 01:29:978 (1) - this one is 1/8 and then it becomes 1/6 on the next note you hear
23:38 Nube: so a repeat there is mistimed
23:38 Nube: and the round slider ends 01:30:256
23:39 Nube: it actually plays pretty decent
23:40 Nube: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4535632
23:40 Nube: this even better
23:40 Nube: and less confusing
23:41 Shiirn: thats the problem of this track
23:41 Nube: mm it mixes 1/8 and 1/6 up
23:42 Nube: however it needs to be mapped on timing
23:42 Shiirn: yeah
23:42 Shiirn: at 100% you cant tell the difference between 1/8 and 1/6
23:42 Nube: well
23:42 Nube: I could feel something off about that pattern
23:42 Nube: it didnt sound on time
23:42 Nube: so I checked it slower and i was right
23:43 Shiirn: that entire slider
23:43 Nube: wait how about this
23:43 Shiirn: is actually
23:43 Nube: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4535643
23:43 Shiirn: irre's
23:43 Shiirn: i want to remap that beat
23:43 Nube: I think that flows really wekk
23:43 Nube: well********
23:44 Shiirn: wekk
23:44 Nube: I guess using your slider shape could work too http://puu.sh/n86SC/b8685ea0cd.jpg
23:44 Shiirn: mmm
23:44 Shiirn: let's try it
23:44 *Shiirn nails down
23:44 Nube: its less confusing too

23:45 Shiirn: i guess
23:47 Nube: I get that you're using this slider for blanket, but the flow is just objectively wrong in every way, ctrl+g and blanket the left side instead xdd
23:47 Nube: http://puu.sh/n875r/1a4788dd8c.jpg
23:47 Nube: 01:36:020 (2) -
23:47 Shiirn: ...
23:47 Shiirn: tru
23:47 Shiirn: done
23:56 Nube: sometimes modhelp just gets on my nerves lol
23:57 Shiirn: lol
00:01 Nube: 01:35:186 (3) - feels right to end this on 1/6 here 01:35:256
00:01 Nube: there might be more of these tiny but relevant timings all over the map tbh
00:01 Shiirn: aaaaaaaaaaaaa
00:01 Shiirn: REEEEEEEEEE
00:01 Shiirn: im doing a forum mod
00:02 Nube:

?
00:02 Shiirn: fieryrage's
00:16 Nube: right make sure u dont forget those timing changes in the extra too
00:17 Shiirn: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaewfaewfarf
00:17 Nube: I think I'm done with the mod, I lost my modding feel
00:17 Shiirn: REEEEEEEEE
00:18 Nube: I ASSUME YOU'LL CHECK ONE OF MY MAPS LATER CUZ THIS IS LIKE THE BIGGEST EFFORT I'VE PUT IN ANY MAP BUT MY OWN SINCE I QUIT MODDING HUE
00:18 Shiirn: ok
00:19 Shiirn: sure
00:19 Nube: written in blood
00:19 Nube: no but really good luck
00:19 Nube: I wouldn't rush it if I were you
00:19 Shiirn: dont forget
00:19 Shiirn: to post
00:19 Shiirn: for support
00:19 Shiirn: and kd
00:19 Shiirn: pls
00:20 Nube: oh ye lol
00:20 Shiirn: positive support super important
00:20 Nube: that part......

Anxient

1,568 posts

Joined June 2014

Anxient 2016-02-14T23:33:44+00:00

just gonna drop my two cents
this guy looks like axarious

comfortable ~~not really~~

IRC

05:22 Shiirn: ive gotten more valuable input in the past 5 hours on comfort
05:22 Shiirn: than the past month
05:22 Anxient: well
05:22 Anxient: DQ is a big thing
05:23 Anxient: and since youre basically a celebrity(?) in mapping, ofc people would flock
05:23 Shiirn: did u see
05:23 Shiirn: my wall
05:23 Anxient: especially wiht a 7 star map
05:23 Shiirn: p/4896426
05:23 Anxient: m
05:24 Anxient: im gonna look at routing then mm
05:24 Anxient: wait
05:24 Anxient: i feel like you shouldve made some of the squares perfect lol
05:24 Anxient: but i dont think thats necessary...? =.=)?
05:24 Shiirn: ruuuuude
05:25 Anxient: lmao
05:25 Anxient: 00:08:832 (4,5) - riperino blanket?
05:25 Anxient: or is it to make perfect square (which it isnt even that LOLOL)
05:26 Shiirn: ugh
05:26 Shiirn: i gotta redo that
05:26 Anxient: 00:11:228 (2,1) - just my two cents but methinks that you shoould aslo make this slider start from the bottom lol
05:26 Anxient: 00:10:707 (6,1) - this has similar rhythm (am i using the world properly) as 00:11:228 (2,1) -
05:27 Anxient: what i mean http://puu.sh/n85Lz/8bcbb881c9.jpg
05:27 Shiirn: but then MUH FLOW
05:28 Anxient: its a part worthy of a flowbreak tho

((((
05:28 Anxient: also youre transitioning to a new part of the song with a strong beat lol
05:28 *Shiirn fiddles
05:28 Anxient: >.>
05:28 Shiirn: i think i did good
05:28 Anxient: yeah
05:28 Anxient: you did really good with this map
05:28 Shiirn: i modified it a bit
05:28 Anxient: aight then
05:28 Shiirn: YEAH WE
05:28 Shiirn: LL
05:28 Shiirn: ITS UNSALVAGABLE
05:28 Anxient: WOY
05:28 Anxient: WOT
05:29 Shiirn: -millhioreF
05:29 Shiirn: well he said
05:29 Shiirn: "some say its unsalvagable but i disagree"
05:29 Anxient: dudenice.png
05:29 Shiirn: but nobody has said that to me
05:29 Shiirn: fucker
05:29 Shiirn: s
05:29 Anxient: well remember that everything is everyones own opinion lol
05:29 Anxient: he isnt the king of beatmapping lol (might be disrespectful lol)
05:30 Anxient: coz if this is unsalvegable i dont know what decon star is
05:30 Anxient: anyway moving on
05:30 Anxient: im probably gonna nazi the whole map okay
05:30 Shiirn: uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
05:30 Shiirn: pls
05:30 Shiirn: no
05:30 Shiirn: not now
05:30 Shiirn: i have like
05:30 Shiirn: 5 people pming me
05:30 Shiirn: lol
05:30 Anxient: lol
05:30 Anxient: want me to forum mod?
05:31 Shiirn: uhhh
05:32 Shiirn: if you dont mind me denying some things with explanations like the evil motyherfucker i am who is throwing his weight around to rank bad maps
05:32 Anxient: dude
05:33 Anxient: ive dealt with more people annoying than you (and some dont even speak with reason)
05:33 Anxient: ill (probably) be fine
05:33 Anxient: just keep your explanations really simple
05:33 Anxient: like GOD tier simple
05:33 Shiirn: MONKEY SEE PATTERN
05:33 Shiirn: MONKEY LIKE PATTERN
05:33 Anxient: WOT
05:33 Shiirn: BECAUSE PATTERN MAKE MONKEY TRACK PREY
05:33 Anxient: ;A;
05:34 Shiirn: AND TEN THOUSAND YEARS LATER
05:34 Anxient: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOOLOL
05:34 Anxient: anyway just keep your explanations in simple english lol
05:34 Anxient: you know what i mean
05:34 Anxient: well im gonna start

things i hope you applied
00:11:228 (2,1) - putting this downwards http://puu.sh/n86KM/77af9d0dc1.jpg, coz its a flowbreak worthy part and has similar rhythm as 00:10:915 (1,2) -

the actual check
00:13:936 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - #i_shouldnt_have_shown_xxr_routing
00:15:290 (2) - move this further away from 3 because 3 has a strong beat, so its better to have 2 stick to regular distance and have 3 be extended for emphasis. http://puu.sh/n86UW/c3964ccd29.jpg
00:15:707 (5,6) - these notes are nearly touching lol which are an not-ok in my book. to fix this i moved 00:15:499 (4,5) - to 373:367. also grants extra emphasis for 00:15:811 (6) - http://puu.sh/n875y/ddf0baceab.jpg
00:16:749 (4,1) - stack lol
00:17:270 (2,1) - maybe fix the blanket on sliderend? http://puu.sh/n878Q/fddeb9667c.jpg
00:20:395 (1,2,3,4) - maybe have these follow the same DS you used for 00:19:353 (1,2) - coz the part isnt very emphasized. like the beats are soft. heck, 00:19:353 (1,2) - this part is more emphasized actually lol. have a really bad fix http://puu.sh/n87mu/2e0d4444c2.jpg
00:20:811 (1,2,3) - honestly i cant think of any reason as to why you made the part... like this lol there are no beats to represent those 5/8 sliders. i choose to attack this part coz this a major part (and not minor either lol like those sliderends being hitcircles and shortening sliders). using this rhythm wouldve done just fine http://puu.sh/n87Gy/8a6d140228.jpg. you can do your fancy curve sliders using some SV altering but pls change this part. (incase you dont wanna redo these sliders, using SV 1.5x would do just fine (might be disorienting but hey this map is confusing as it is already LOLOLOL)
00:22:686 (1) - ctrl g this lol i dont see a reason as to why you used a flow break. flow is extremely important in double bpm maps (but im sure you knew that)
00:22:686 (1,2) - also fix sliderblanket http://puu.sh/n87U0/41fd3a1ff9.jpg
00:23:311 (3,4,1) - i was wondering what was wrong with this part lol. use the same DS. i dont see why its different (lower even), especially when it has more sounds in it
00:24:665 (2) - if i were to put a flow break in this part i wouldve done it in 00:24:561 (1) - instead of 00:24:665 (2) - lol but since you did neither, ill just go ahead and tell you to make this part super flowy http://puu.sh/n888j/0dbde249f9.jpg
00:26:020 (1) - ctrl g this for emphasis (well it players better when i was simulating it) 00:26:228 (1) - also gives this the extra kick :l
00:27:061 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - i dont understand all the hate in this part lol
00:28:832 (4,5,6) - 5 is in the wrong spot lol. do this instead http://puu.sh/n892L/d476e3034b.jpg
00:31:645 (7) - ctrl g coz it makes the other parts more fun to play imo 00:31:853 (1) -
00:31:645 (7) - also NC ths i dont know why this is continue combo
00:31:853 (1,1) - same goes for here. why NC :l http://puu.sh/n88AX/4931ca3994.jpg
00:32:686 (1,2,3,4) - if anything i would have this stream go down lol because theres nothing in the song that suggests a upward stream (and the stream is nearly vertical so this would be appropriate with some really strong increasing pitch)
00:40:186 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - i dont understand why people hate this part too lol i mean it creats pretty good buildup :l
00:47:374 (3) - i dont think its a good idea to use a sliderend to emphasize a strong beat.
00:57:061 (2,3,4,5) - id prefer if you ctrl g'd (as in reverse the position of slider start coz i dont understand why you put the flowbreak here other than the finishes. if you wanna keep this, okay but this looks really painful to play.
00:59:978 (1,2) - lemao overlap
01:03:311 (1,2,3,4,5) - this part is fine tho. its cool.
01:33:103 (5) - ctrl g this lol why flowbreak

pls no unfriend

Last edited by Anxient 2016-02-15T00:18:59+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-02-14T23:34:48+00:00

Anxient wrote:
just gonna drop my two cents
this guy looks like axarious
box
comfortable ~~not really~~

things i hope you applied
00:11:228 (2,1) - putting this downwards http://puu.sh/n86KM/77af9d0dc1.jpg, coz its a flowbreak worthy part and has similar rhythm as 00:10:915 (1,2) -

the actual check
00:13:936 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - #i_shouldnt_have_shown_xxr_routing
00:15:290 (2) - move this further away from 3 because 3 has a strong beat, so its better to have 2 stick to regular distance and have 3 be extended for emphasis. http://puu.sh/n86UW/c3964ccd29.jpg
00:15:707 (5,6) - these notes are nearly touching lol which are an not-ok in my book. to fix this i moved 00:15:499 (4,5) - to 373:367. also grants extra emphasis for 00:15:811 (6) - http://puu.sh/n875y/ddf0baceab.jpg
00:16:749 (4,1) - stack lol
00:17:270 (2,1) - maybe fix the blanket on sliderend? http://puu.sh/n878Q/fddeb9667c.jpg
00:20:395 (1,2,3,4) - maybe have these follow the same DS you used for 00:19:353 (1,2) - coz the part isnt very emphasized. like the beats are soft. heck, 00:19:353 (1,2) - this part is more emphasized actually lol. have a really bad fix http://puu.sh/n87mu/2e0d4444c2.jpg
00:20:811 (1,2,3) - honestly i cant think of any reason as to why you made the part... like this lol there are no beats to represent those 5/8 sliders. i choose to attack this part coz this a major part (and not minor either lol like those sliderends being hitcircles and shortening sliders). using this rhythm wouldve done just fine http://puu.sh/n87Gy/8a6d140228.jpg. you can do your fancy curve sliders using some SV altering but pls change this part. (incase you dont wanna redo these sliders, using SV 1.5x would do just fine (might be disorienting but hey this map is confusing as it is already LOLOLOL)
00:22:686 (1) - ctrl g this lol i dont see a reason as to why you used a flow break. flow is extremely important in double bpm maps (but im sure you knew that)
00:22:686 (1,2) - also fix sliderblanket http://puu.sh/n87U0/41fd3a1ff9.jpg
00:23:311 (3,4,1) - i was wondering what was wrong with this part lol. use the same DS. i dont see why its different (lower even), especially when it has more sounds in it
00:24:665 (2) - if i were to put a flow break in this part i wouldve done it in 00:24:561 (1) - instead of 00:24:665 (2) - lol but since you did neither, ill just go ahead and tell you to make this part super flowy http://puu.sh/n888j/0dbde249f9.jpg
00:26:020 (1) - ctrl g this for emphasis (well it players better when i was simulating it) 00:26:228 (1) - also gives this the extra kick :l
00:27:061 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - i dont understand all the hate in this part lol
00:28:832 (4,5,6) - 5 is in the wrong spot lol. do this instead http://puu.sh/n892L/d476e3034b.jpg
00:31:645 (7) - ctrl g coz it makes the other parts more fun to play imo 00:31:853 (1) -
00:31:645 (7) - also NC ths i dont know why this is continue combo
00:31:853 (1,1) - same goes for here. why NC :l http://puu.sh/n88AX/4931ca3994.jpg
00:32:686 (1,2,3,4) - if anything i would have this stream go down lol because theres nothing in the song that suggests a upward stream (and the stream is nearly vertical so this would be appropriate with some really strong increasing pitch)
00:40:186 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - i dont understand why people hate this part too lol i mean it creats pretty good buildup :l
00:47:374 (3) - i dont think its a good idea to use a sliderend to emphasize a strong beat.
00:57:061 (2,3,4,5) - id prefer if you ctrl g'd (as in reverse the position of slider start coz i dont understand why you put the flowbreak here other than the finishes. if you wanna keep this, okay but this looks really painful to play.
00:59:978 (1,2) - lemao overlap
01:03:311 (1,2,3,4,5) - this part is fine tho. its cool.
01:33:103 (5) - ctrl g this lol why flowbreak
pls no unfriend

all denied

jk responding placeholder

Zexous

713 posts

Joined July 2012

Zexous 2016-02-14T23:48:22+00:00

[Blankets To Be Improved Cause You're Blind In Your Left Eye Or Something]
I'm putting a spoilerbox here because there are a whole lot but it's a high density map so w/e
Also this is extremely nazi so don't get mad and you don't have to fix all of these cause some are really really minor

SPOILER

Pay attention to the specific objects I'm referring to in case you're confused cause there are a lot
If you need help figuring out how to fix it cause of your fucked eye I can help in-game
NOTE: when I say "wide", I'm referring to the gap between objects

00:02:895 (3,4) -
00:04:874 (3,4) -
00:05:395 (1,4) -
00:06:020 (6,2) -
00:08:832 (4,5) - Don't know if this was meant to blanket 5 but if it was, fix it
00:09:040 (5,6) - This 6 is too straight for a nice blanket but you could move it a little further away and make it a bit nicer
00:10:603 (5,6) -
00:10:915 (1,2) - Wider in the middle
00:11:228 (2,1) - I know this is meant to blanket the sliderend but it looks awkward as shit
00:11:957 (2,3) -
00:12:270 (4,5) -
00:14:978 (1,2) -
00:16:332 (2,3) -
00:17:270 (2,1) -
00:18:728 (1,2) -
00:19:353 (1,2) - Curve a little
00:21:853 (3) - Curve it less
00:22:895 (1,2) - Fix this, but also I just wanted to note you should equalize the spacing between this and 1, and 4 and 1 (so either close up this one's spacing, or widen up the spacing between 4 and 1) to make it look nicer
00:25:395 (1,2) -
00:28:624 (2,4) - Slightly more curvature could make this perfect
00:28:728 (3,6) - This is also off, but I'm confused as to why this wouldn't just be a copy paste of ^
00:29:561 (1,2) -
00:32:999 (1,3) - Bit too wide on the right
00:37:895 (1,3) - Should curve 3 a little, also a tad bit wide on the left
00:43:936 (5,1) -
00:44:561 (4,1) -
00:49:145 (1) - Should be a little less curved
00:52:061 (2,4) -
00:53:103 (5,1) -
00:54:145 (3,5) -
00:54:561 (5,7) - Slightly wider on the left
00:54:874 (7,2) - Same
00:54:874 (7,3) -
00:55:395 (3,1) -
00:55:603 (1,3) - Should be little less curved
00:59:978 (1,2) - Oh man now these are gonna be a pain in the ass to fix but it's a blanket mod so I shall point out the imperfect blankets
01:00:395 (2,3) -
01:00:707 (3,4) - This one can actually be fixed by just curving 3 a little more at the sliderend
01:01:645 (3,1) - Too wide on left
01:02:686 (5,1) -
01:13:311 (1,2) - Too wide on left
01:13:624 (2,3) - ^
01:13:936 (4,5) - ^
01:16:645 (1,3) - ^
01:17:374 (5,3) - Should be less curved
01:17:582 (2,4) - Too wide on right
01:19:978 (1,2) - Too wide on left
01:20:290 (2,3) - Should be less curved
01:20:395 (3,5) - Bit too wide in the middle
01:27:374 (5,7) -
01:27:478 (6,1) -
01:27:999 (2,4) - Too wide on left
01:28:103 (3,3) - ^
01:28:520 (3,5) - Bit too wide on right
01:28:728 (4,6) - Slightly too wide in the middle
01:29:040 (6,1) - Wide on left
01:29:561 (2,4) - Curve the 2 a little less on the right, sliderend is too close
01:30:395 (1,5) - Curve 5 less
01:30:915 (5,7) - Curve 7 less
01:31:540 (1,3) - Sliderhead is too tight/the rest is too wide
01:32:270 (6,1) - Too wide on right
01:32:790 (3,5) - Curve it less on the sliderend cause the sliderend is too close
01:33:311 (1,3) - Bit too wide near the sliderend
01:33:728 (3,5) - Little hard to fix cause the playfield edge is right there, but rotate this a little CCW and curve it a little less
01:33:624 (2,4) - Too tight near sliderend
01:34:353 (1,3) - Much too tight near sliderhead
01:34:249 (6,2) - Curve this less near the sliderend
01:34:561 (2,4) - ...but doing ^ that will fuck this up, so fix appropriately if necessary
01:35:395 (4,6) - Too wide on left
01:36:020 (2,4) -
01:37:270 (2,2) - For the most part the 1/1 blankets the 1/2 fine but you should move the 1/1 down (and rotate) so the sliderend is also blanketed
01:39:353 (3) - Should curve a little more
01:42:374 (5,6) - Too wide near sliderend
01:44:249 (1,2) - Too tight near sliderend
01:46:020 (7,2) - ^
01:47:478 (4,5) - 5 sliderend is too close
01:47:478 (4,6) - Sliderend is too tight
01:48:207 (7,1) - ^
01:50:915 (1,2) - Too wide near sliderhead
01:51:645 (1,2) - ^

Spare

71 posts

Joined December 2012

Spare 2016-02-14T23:48:56+00:00

nice plays well

Hula

581 posts

Joined January 2013

Hula 2016-02-15T00:52:56+00:00

[Comfort]
More like discomfort!

To mod this map i'm reducing the ar, it's mega high.

00:06:020 (6,1,2) - this flow here is really awkward and uncomfortable and unintuitive, a simple ctrl g on the 6 reduces the awkwardness, but it still perseveres. Why didn't it even try to follow the same direction of flow as 00:02:686 (2,3,4) - . That being said, that pattern is also awkward. If you refuse to repattern the pattern, at least ctrl g the 6.
00:06:783 (3) - Why is this over here? This shouldn't be over here, this is totally arbitrary and bad. Bring this more down into the bottom right quadrant somewhere.
00:08:728 (3,4,5) - Once again this flow within the pattern is really bad an isn't intuitive for the player to follow with his cursor, you should reconsider these patterns and how you've placed them, the song isn't complex at this point, we're in the introductory phase of the map.
00:09:561 (1,2,3,1,2) - I don't understand why you'd do this here? you're making the 2nd combo pattern seem like it should be mapping the same rhythm as the first combo pattern, but it's not, this is counterintuitive

00:10:082 (1,2,3,4,5) - Think about how the cursor goes from the slider into the circles, that is not the direction of flow you'd expect as a player.
00:10:707 (6,1,2) - I can understand why 1 and 2 are blanketed like this here, but why is the 6 blanketed like this? it's distinctly different from the other two.
00:12:895 (1,2,3,4) - WHOAH. that's sudden. We've not seen anywhere near this spacing before, and i wouldn't say it needs it.
00:13:936 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - same ^.
00:17:790 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - Not sure why this much spacing was necessary.
00:20:186 (6) - Why is this a 1/8 slider? There's nothing in the music for this and it looks like it should be replicating what appears at 00:19:353 (1) - which it doesn't.
00:21:540 (1,2,3) - What's your obsession with doing this? Maybe once in a while is cool, but it's outright awful and anti flow. And like millhiore previously said, you've obviously sacrificed structure for flow, but you're failing to make patterns flow within themselves and between each other properly. For instance, 00:24:561 (1,2) - this sucks, but a simple thing like this, makes it flow better.

SPOILER

00:32:999 (1,2,3) - Once again, stifling the flow. think about movement.

00:33:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - In this map you seem to be ignoring the drum as emphasis for spacing, but the dinging sound is your emphasis, but you're kinda ignoring that in a way. 00:33:728 (2,3) - This needs bigger spacing, this is significant. 00:34:145 (6) - Make this higher spacing from the previous because this is the strongest part of this rhythm.
00:34:874 (4) - I was expecting this to be a slider.
00:35:256 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Spacing is too high here, reduce this vastly, this is awkward sudden rhythm and at a glance looks like everything we've encountered already. The 'pattern' is also a mess, this has 0 structure within the pattern and could easily have a better looking pattern. Tidy itup. Something simple like this would work, maybe a bit smaller spaced, idk. your map.

SPOILER

00:36:506 (1) - Blanket. You have many slightly off blankets throughout map, not gonna mention them all, you should be able to see them yourself

.
00:39:457 (2,3) - Surprised here you went for this when something cool like this where you duplicate the previous slider and stifle the flow a bit (which you have been doing throughout) actually works. Simply ctrl c and ctrl h the (2) and you get this, try it.

SPOILER

00:40:186 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - I personally dislike these patterns and playing them is a absolute ball ache for anyone since your eye's will slowly become cross eyed and bored out of their mind at the gradual change each iteration. This also shouts lazy to me as well.
00:44:665 (5,1) - why this spacing and flow?? If you intend to keep this direction of this slider, ctrl g this slider here 00:45:186 (2) - as this sound here is a complimentary sample in the rhythm and is very well emphasised when you get a slider and make two of them and ctrl g them like so.

SPOILER

00:48:520 (5,1) - Who on god's earth thinks this is a great idea? This is just deliberately trying to hurt the readability of the map at no extra gain to the map itself.

okay, gonna start moving onto the spacing aspect of this map more as we've established the flow is going to suck here on out since you constantly keep doing the same bad flowy things with it sometimes working and sometimes not.

00:51:020 (8) - Why is this spaced so much more? Not sure what it's emphasising.
00:52:686 (1,2,3) - Why have you not chosen to map the 1/6 here? You did prior to this and it's a really cool aspect of the song. Also why is this whole pattern suddenly spaced so low?

00:55:186 (2,3,1) - got to mention that this is catastrophic flow and rhythm. For a start, your putting the bass drum on the slider heads, but you start off with it being on a circle and then you put a passive slider after it with massive spacing, but no relevance in the music. This is more like how the rhythm should be

SPOILER

01:01:436 (2) - Why isn't this circles instead?
01:02:895 (7) - Make this as 2 1/4 sliders instead to both get the drum on the slider and and also map the weird sound thing better
01:06:228 (1,2) - Why isn't this mapped as 1/6? you also know that this whole piano part here is 1/6 yeah? It feels like you were using the piano to space your pattern here, but you're putting your circles on 1/4, so i'd class that as incorrect. You either ignore the 1/6 or you don't.

SPOILER

01:13:728 (3) - Why not spaced more? it's on the beep thing.
01:14:353 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - this is what you call how to make a tidy pattern. Though I'm not a fan of how this slider is placed, it's made harder to read and anti flow - 01:14:978 (1) - .
01:18:520 (1,2,3) - I'm struggling to hear any 1/8 here. but there's 1/8 here 01:18:936 (1,2,3) - .
01:17:374 (5,1,2) - Could you explain the spacing within this please?
01:19:040 (3,4,5) - Explain here too, i don't get why 3-4 is so much smaller than 4-5.
01:20:915 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - This could be executed better.
01:21:645 (1,2,3) - struggling to hear any 1/8 here either. But, once again, there's 1/8 here, 01:22:582 (1,2,3) - .
01:26:020 (1,2,3) - Suddenly 1/8 sliders, and placed like that, not a fan.
01:31:853 (2,3,4,5,6,7,1) - Within this pattern, the circles on the ticks of 2,4,6,1 should be emphasised more than the others since that's where the dings land.
01:33:103 (5) - Once again, not sure why such high spacing.
01:32:478 (1) - Uh, blanket.
01:35:082 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Better rhythm could be chosen here to represent the unique sounds going on within this rhythm.

SPOILER

Whatever you've applied previously, you should apply similarly in the end part of the map.

Also, any point i may have picked up on once or twice and not mentioned again, but missed other times, means that i just missed it/omitted it for time and effort's sake.

This mod hasn't touched on every detail, but hopefully this gives some insight.

Overall feeling of the map is that you've sacrificed structure for gimmick and there is a severe lack of intuitive play and cohesiveness between the patterns; it hasn't been executed at the highest caliber. Also there is some poor choice of rhythm at points where better ones could be used to emphasise key aspects of the song which have been pointed out occasionally. Also the spacing on the whole feels random, especially in the kiai, i didn't want to pick up on that too much cos i'm sure other people have and also time/effort.

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-02-15T01:11:57+00:00

anyone who thinks i sacrifice structure for anything clearly hasn't actually looked at how the patterns tie to eachother and how the notes are connected

Yauxo

1,622 posts

Joined June 2011

Yauxo 2016-02-15T01:40:51+00:00

eh, whatever.

(I dont care if you try to defend your map, just dont act like it's perfect)

Shohei Ohtani

Shohei Ohtani 2016-02-15T02:21:41+00:00

when ur map gets unranked

I'd like to have an opinion on this but like I don't fucking know how to play this game so while in theory I think it plays fine I have no idea how it actually plays lmao

CXu

osu! Alumni

3,558 posts

Joined March 2009

CXu 2016-02-15T02:29:11+00:00

Shiirn wrote:
anyone who thinks i sacrifice structure for anything clearly hasn't actually looked at how the patterns tie to eachother and how the notes are connected

Or maybe they did look at it and don't think you did a good job at it? Your patterns look like a mess from a purely aesthetic standpoint, where things are unevenly spaced and notes overlapping with other notes, making one combo bleed into another one and just making everything look like a jumble of notes in general.

While you most certainly have some kind of idea in how you structured your map, if there are this many people questioning your structure or patterns, maybe consider that you did a poor job showing your intentions in your map?

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-02-15T04:10:55+00:00

Yauxo wrote:
(I dont care if you try to defend your map, just dont act like it's perfect)

I never said it was perfect. I've applied many mods just today. Most people I've spoken to like the map a lot, just a vocal minority like to find any reason to dislike the map.

Most pro player input I have gotten is that it plays very well for the most part and any parts that feel directly unfair as opposed to challenging are being found and weeded out.

The raw aesthetic rule of " you need to make sure no notes overlap and the map has the exact same style the entire map" is not going to happen here. If you want it to happen here, you're looking for the wrong map. Having a stringent rule of "sliders need to point directly at the next note or it is ugly" is just as silly. If you want to say "its all just a god damn mess" then have fun. I won't accept "change it because it looks bad" as a mod.

Most of the input I've gotten since the disqualification has been "shit from the thread, value from in-game". The people that are speaking their mind in this thread without giving specific advice (or are telling me I mapped a section wrong because they'd do it differently and refuse to see any sort of alternative) are completely useless. The people who chat with me in-game and discuss actual pattern shape and flow are far more valuable. As such, I'm going to give them the attention they deserve.

I'm going to go over Comfort with a very fine toothed comb over the next day while seeking (and going over already posted) input from people whom I know aren't just making shit up because they vaguely find the map disagreeable. After that, I'm going to work back towards qualification. If it gets DQ'd again, so be it. I will not be fillibustered out of ranking something I know is not just rankable, but pretty good. And Comfort is pretty good. It's nowhere near perfect, but perfect is unobtainable as there will always be people who think it should be different.

riffy

osu! Alumni

8,060 posts

Joined December 2010

riffy 2016-02-15T04:53:53+00:00

Remember to keep discussion civil. Cleaning up the thread for now.

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-02-15T06:07:21+00:00

Anxient wrote:
box
comfortable ~~not really~~

things i hope you applied
00:11:228 (2,1) - putting this downwards http://puu.sh/n86KM/77af9d0dc1.jpg, coz its a flowbreak worthy part and has similar rhythm as 00:10:915 (1,2) -

the actual check
00:13:936 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - #i_shouldnt_have_shown_xxr_routing
00:15:290 (2) - move this further away from 3 because 3 has a strong beat, so its better to have 2 stick to regular distance and have 3 be extended for emphasis. http://puu.sh/n86UW/c3964ccd29.jpg Sure, why not. If i get people bitching "but muh spacing it should be equal" they can kiss my ass
00:15:707 (5,6) - these notes are nearly touching lol which are an not-ok in my book. to fix this i moved 00:15:499 (4,5) - to 373:367. also grants extra emphasis for 00:15:811 (6) - http://puu.sh/n875y/ddf0baceab.jpg the reason they're close to begin with was because someone was whining "muh equal spacing" but screw those guys. moved over a bit.
00:16:749 (4,1) - stack lol how the hell do you people find these 1-pixel stack issues
00:17:270 (2,1) - maybe fix the blanket on sliderend? http://puu.sh/n878Q/fddeb9667c.jpg i tried
00:20:395 (1,2,3,4) - maybe have these follow the same DS you used for 00:19:353 (1,2) - coz the part isnt very emphasized. like the beats are soft. heck, 00:19:353 (1,2) - this part is more emphasized actually lol. have a really bad fix http://puu.sh/n87mu/2e0d4444c2.jpg lowered the spacing a bit but honestly whatever
00:20:811 (1,2,3) - honestly i cant think of any reason as to why you made the part... like this lol there are no beats to represent those 5/8 sliders. i choose to attack this part coz this a major part (and not minor either lol like those sliderends being hitcircles and shortening sliders). using this rhythm wouldve done just fine http://puu.sh/n87Gy/8a6d140228.jpg. you can do your fancy curve sliders using some SV altering but pls change this part. (incase you dont wanna redo these sliders, using SV 1.5x would do just fine (might be disorienting but hey this map is confusing as it is already LOLOLOL) Not doing this. These three sliders heavily emphasize the wubs and encourage the player to hold the beat very hard, as well as alternate. This map tries very hard to be single-tap friendly while trying to encourage alternating in places like this, where I want to have buttons held down for longer than just short taps. At 25% you might feel like they're not entirely accurate but at any higher speed they fit very well! Also, they're 3/8 buddy :U
00:22:686 (1) - ctrl g this lol i dont see a reason as to why you used a flow break. flow is extremely important in double bpm maps (but im sure you knew that) Gameplay wise there is literally no difference and i wanted the swap in clockwise-counterclockwise to emphasize the wubs, but if people start throwing that scary 'flow' buzz word around i better line the fuck up right?
00:22:686 (1,2) - also fix sliderblanket http://puu.sh/n87U0/41fd3a1ff9.jpg did with zexous' help
00:23:311 (3,4,1) - i was wondering what was wrong with this part lol. use the same DS. i dont see why its different (lower even), especially when it has more sounds in it fiddled a bit
00:24:665 (2) - if i were to put a flow break in this part i wouldve done it in 00:24:561 (1) - instead of 00:24:665 (2) - lol but since you did neither, ill just go ahead and tell you to make this part super flowy http://puu.sh/n888j/0dbde249f9.jpg I mean except for the abuse of the word 'flow' i don't really see the point in this but i should pretend to actually care about this, but since it has no gameplay impact whatever let's do it
00:26:020 (1) - ctrl g this for emphasis (well it players better when i was simulating it) 00:26:228 (1) - also gives this the extra kick :l Nope. One of the stringent rules of this track is that 1/8 = very close, overlapping or almost overlapped spacing. Not going to break it exactly once.
00:27:061 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - i dont understand all the hate in this part lol Haters should just be glad I didn't actually map every individual beat in the music here.
00:28:832 (4,5,6) - 5 is in the wrong spot lol. do this instead http://puu.sh/n892L/d476e3034b.jpg I'll do it but i mean im sure some idiot is going to say 'muh flow' or 'muh spacing'. I think either way works fairly fine due to how the synth and bass work out.
00:31:645 (7) - ctrl g coz it makes the other parts more fun to play imo 00:31:853 (1) - Don't see the point. if it's reversed then we have 'anti-flow' because the cursor has to go even more distance. idk don't ask me to explain what flow is ur just a bad mapper blah blah etc.
00:31:645 (7) - also NC ths i dont know why this is continue combo
00:31:853 (1,1) - same goes for here. why NC :l http://puu.sh/n88AX/4931ca3994.jpg I have always new combod the 3/8 sliders that emphasize the intermittent interjections of interesting instruments.
00:32:686 (1,2,3,4) - if anything i would have this stream go down lol because theres nothing in the song that suggests a upward stream (and the stream is nearly vertical so this would be appropriate with some really strong increasing pitch) The direction really doesn't matter. It really, really doesn't unless it's clear you're using volume as a model for where you're aiming a section. These are four notes and they just happen to go upwards. It's not implying that the pitch or volume go up or down. Not every note or pattern needs to have a deep underlying meaning behind it.
00:40:186 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - i dont understand why people hate this part too lol i mean it creats pretty good buildup :l I've only ever seen people think it's either "pretty good" or "fucking amazing". I've only seen people whine about it once it got qualified. That's mapping for you.
00:47:374 (3) - i dont think its a good idea to use a sliderend to emphasize a strong beat. It's not emphasizing a strong beat. The strong beat just happens to be on the end because here I am mapping that high pitched unidentifiable instrument rather than purely the bass.
00:57:061 (2,3,4,5) - id prefer if you ctrl g'd (as in reverse the position of slider start coz i dont understand why you put the flowbreak here other than the finishes. if you wanna keep this, okay but this looks really painful to play. what? these bouncy bits play amazing, ive not seen a single person dislike it and that includes the haters, even the most staunch of haters said they liked these
00:59:978 (1,2) - lemao overlap palrevo oamel
01:03:311 (1,2,3,4,5) - this part is fine tho. its cool. this is literally the exact same as the other one except rotated 180 degrees
01:33:103 (5) - ctrl g this lol why flowbreak This is changing direction so that the impulse to leap to the next start doesn't lead to the player 100ing the slider. It's for gameplay. Sliderballs don't need to constantly go in the same general direction. That's not how flow works...
pls no unfriend

Arphimigon

1,650 posts

Joined December 2014

Arphimigon 2016-02-15T12:10:59+00:00

Hi o/
Take this as more of a post for discussion, not really a mod (hence the longer than normal lines at the start)
I'm narrowing this post down to Comfort only for now.

We spoke about some things in public chat a few hours ago, so I'm going to repeat that for the sake of discussion, elaborate, and then move on to regular stuff.

The general idea was that at 50% or slower speeds, the map makes a lot of sense due to lots of the beats being placed on sounds at that speed. At 100%, or even 75%, it is much less understandable, as there is less of a focus on the "obvious" instruments that you'll hear on that speed and still a focus on the sounds at 50% or slower. This ultimately leads to an extremely confusing experience for most, and for the others who can play the map at that speed, more of a "just click notes" instead of "click to the music" kind of difficulty.
That being said, this map is technically not overmapped. It just feels like so much more at a higher speed than a smaller one, again due to the full speed of the song highlighting various different instruments compared to at slower speeds.
Let me go see if I can find any good examples:
00:26:645 (3) - (this is barely audible even on 25% so at 100% its basically nothing)
00:30:603 - This seems like 1/3 between there and 00:30:811 -
00:49:665 (4,5,6) - These are very weak sounds and seem much nicer represented as sliders+slider ends, perhaps the first slider starting at 00:49:561 - so this clap isn't also a slider end. That way there isn't so much pressure on near inaudible sounds but still maps to them.
00:52:790 (2) - What if i told you there was no sound here? even on 25%, this 00:52:686 (1,2,3) - should actually be 1/3, so a reverse slider or 1/3 burst would make more sense.
01:01:332 (1,2) - On a faster speed, it makes more sense to continue to go along with the instrument highlighted just before at 00:59:978 (1,2,3,4) - instead of this very VERY hard to hear sound at 01:01:436 (2) - . If you made 01:01:332 (1) - a 1/2 slider and a note placed at 01:01:540 - instead, you have a more understandable rhythm at higher speeds, since it continues with the same, very powerful instrument, but you also highlight 01:01:540 - this sound which is being missed because of a really inaudible slider.
01:08:589 (3,4,5,1) - This whole part seems like a gray area, because it's hard to make sense of even in slower OR higher speeds. I see you mapped the 1/3 though which is good, however after the snaps become almost un-understandable. To me, at fullspeed the only obvious sounds I hear are every 1/2, so no 01:08:884 - I think that if you skip this sound and add a few small 1/2 jumps, it'll make the momentum gained from the last sliders go away more gradually.
01:18:520 (1,2,3) - Is this mapped to any actual beats? I can understand it being mapped because of the high pitched... scream like sound idk but it seems like plain rhythmical overmap at a higher speed because there arent actually any sounds on 01:18:572 - or 01:18:624 -
01:30:117 (2) - ~~On 25% or 50% this is perfect, but on higher speeds it just SOUNDS like there are more sounds... you know... idk actually.~~
01:31:853 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - This must be mapped to something barely existant because it doesn't feel like any of these are mapped to sounds that I can hear. However if they are, the pressure of them doesn't need to be so high, so if you decide to keep them can you tone down the spacing?
01:33:936 - Perhaps make this a clickable sound? It completely fits the section here and what you have mapped circles to.
00:27:061 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2) - Rechecking over previous parts, on higher speeds only the start of these sliders are audible. I'd try turning them into notes and seeing how you can hear it.
The end 20 secs are sweeeeeeeeeet

Extra things I'd like to point out (in more of a mod-style)
00:02:999 (4) - All of the sounds like this honestly feel dulled down because the end is a slider end. I mean every single one. Why can't the ends be high spaced notes? It fits the sound and hitsounding perfectly, and doesn't fit a slider end at all! If you want to keep the holds, well technically the holds end 1/2 later, like at 00:03:103 - It may be hard to implement them on every slider like this, but just consider it.
00:08:103 (7,8,1) - Perhaps space the slider to emphasise the finish and strong sound?
00:14:561 (3) - Perhaps NC this like you NCed every second object in this pattern? Having it end on a 3 is weird.
00:20:811 (1,2,3) - Having the same slider for all these three sounds doesn't seem fitting. The first two is okay, but the last sounds way different. If you kept the first two sliders how they are then perhaps make the last curve a bit more open, it'd portray the vocals nicer.
00:34:145 (6,1) - This low spacing hurts after all the momentum gained from 00:33:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
00:39:145 (1,2,3) - The flow AND spacing from slider 1 to slider 2 is MUCH harder and more pressuring than from slider 2 to slider 3, however that last slider should be the most pressurised due to being on a downbeat AND having the highest pitch during a sound which gets more intense!
01:02:895 (1,2,1) - Plainly put the flow here feels really odd xd
01:16:228 (4,5,6,7) - I had mentioned this before, but technically speaking, making the first two jumps have higher spacing than the second would fit the pitches more. And since you have mapped a few spacings to pitches early on, it makes sense to do so here (01:14:353 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - like here where every part gets slightly harder and more pressured)

While I'm posting I hope to clear up two misconceptions for some people:
1) Nope, this map isn't overmapped. Actually, it's done quite well tbh. If anything it looks like how I'd map it, but with more curves and density.
2) This isn't mapped for difficulty, this could be mapped so much harder and still be justified.

With that being said, I do disagree with lots of flows in the map, but this is just a personal bias to how I'd map it, so it isn't worth saying here.

gl with re-ranking!
If you wanna talk about any of this in more detail I'm open to pm.

phaZ

739 posts

Joined October 2011

phaZ 2016-02-15T13:44:45+00:00

basically just 5 things or something like that

2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: picking randomly on some things in your comfort diff if you wouldnt mind
2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/902982 Camellia - Routing [Comfort]]
2016-02-14 22:52 Shiirn: sure
2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: 00:52:061 (2,3,4,5) -
2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: how about
2016-02-14 22:52 phaZ: the two sliders first
2016-02-14 22:53 phaZ: you can feel the wubs way better then imo
2016-02-14 22:53 phaZ: or
2016-02-14 22:53 phaZ: if you consider the metallophone or whatever it is
2016-02-14 22:53 phaZ: slider+2xcircle+slider ?
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: atm is 2circle2slider
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: u suggest
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: slider-2circle-slider?
2016-02-14 22:54 phaZ: yea
2016-02-14 22:54 phaZ: i would definitely start with a slider at least
2016-02-14 22:54 Shiirn: true cuz atm 00:52:270 (4) - has two significant beats
2016-02-14 22:54 phaZ: as the wub sound you here
2016-02-14 22:54 phaZ: is not that strong
2016-02-14 22:55 phaZ: but a wubby slider fits
2016-02-14 22:55 phaZ: _D
2016-02-14 22:55 Shiirn: yeah
2016-02-14 22:56 phaZ: 00:59:561 (1,2) - ctrlg these?
2016-02-14 22:56 phaZ: 00:59:457 (9,1) -
2016-02-14 22:56 phaZ: atm this
2016-02-14 22:56 phaZ: really kicks me out
2016-02-14 22:57 phaZ: suddenly zic zac
2016-02-14 22:57 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 22:57 Shiirn: thats a tough one
2016-02-14 22:58 Shiirn: i think ill leave cuz otherwise you need to jump awkwardly from 1 to 2
2016-02-14 23:00 Shiirn: feel free to continue
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: yea
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: im just looking
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: and trying for better ways^^
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: 01:08:832 (4) -
2016-02-14 23:00 phaZ: this is wrong ryhthm
2016-02-14 23:01 phaZ: its still 1/6
2016-02-14 23:01 phaZ: 01:08:728 (3,4) -
2016-02-14 23:02 Shiirn: there the dj scratch is hard to map
2016-02-14 23:02 phaZ: nah i really am 100% sure
2016-02-14 23:03 Shiirn: no like
2016-02-14 23:03 Shiirn: im sure the timing isnt right for dj scratch
2016-02-14 23:03 Shiirn: but at 100%
2016-02-14 23:03 Shiirn: it doesnt matter to player cuz slider and its hard af to read if its off rhythm
2016-02-14 23:03 phaZ:

ok
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: 01:09:561 (3) - make it start 1/8 later maybe?
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: and get a circle there insteead
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: to have it at least on the bass thing
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: eh
2016-02-14 23:05 phaZ: 1/4 later
2016-02-14 23:06 phaZ: or just dont mind
2016-02-14 23:09 phaZ: 01:32:478 (1) -
2016-02-14 23:09 phaZ: make this a repeat to get the scratch feeling

?
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: hi uhh
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: ACTION looks
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: would be super hard to play
2016-02-14 23:12 Shiirn: ctrl+g instead
2016-02-14 23:15 phaZ: 01:29:978 (1) - make this a triplet like 01:28:415 (1,2,3) - or 01:35:082 (1,2,3) -
2016-02-14 23:15 phaZ: so that 01:30:186 (2) -
2016-02-14 23:16 phaZ: can start earlier
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: ooo
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: that makes it REALLY hard
2016-02-14 23:16 phaZ: i mean
2016-02-14 23:16 phaZ: like
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: or do you mean
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: 1/8 circle-circle-slider
2016-02-14 23:16 Shiirn: for wub
2016-02-14 23:17 phaZ: http://puu.sh/n84XB/047eccf68c.jpg
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: mmmmm that's
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: ACTION thinks
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: lemme try it
2016-02-14 23:17 phaZ: because the wub slider feels too off imo
2016-02-14 23:17 phaZ: it shoudld actually start on the white tick
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: it makes for a really long slider hold
2016-02-14 23:17 Shiirn: feels weird in kiai
2016-02-14 23:18 phaZ: make it lincrease sv lolol
2016-02-14 23:19 Shiirn: think ill pass on that one
2016-02-14 23:19 phaZ: well ok http://puu.sh/n858m/eeb6e67e84.jpg
2016-02-14 23:19 Shiirn: ill think about it, tho
2016-02-14 23:19 phaZ: pictuer anyway :p
2016-02-14 23:22 phaZ: 00:02:999 (4) -
2016-02-14 23:22 Shiirn: hi
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: did you make long slider because music is stopping?
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: so you dont have anything to click?
2016-02-14 23:23 Shiirn: yes
2016-02-14 23:23 Shiirn: because it is big pause
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: mmm
2016-02-14 23:23 Shiirn: so i didnt want a click on the end
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: meh
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: what i think is flawesd there
2016-02-14 23:23 phaZ: is that
2016-02-14 23:24 phaZ: 00:01:957 (2,3) - this is actually the same compared to that
2016-02-14 23:24 phaZ: the you use that slider here again 00:01:645 (1) -
2016-02-14 23:24 phaZ: as it were the same music pattern
2016-02-14 23:24 phaZ: *but then you use that slider..
2016-02-14 23:25 Shiirn: the end of 00:02:999 (4) - is a bass hit
2016-02-14 23:25 Shiirn: but i can see the point
2016-02-14 23:25 phaZ: would rather have it not the same way as the sliders before
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: it feels tome like
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: when you have a good pattern
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: but on redticks
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: when music is white
2016-02-14 23:26 phaZ: kind of that
2016-02-14 23:27 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 23:31 phaZ: 01:26:020 (1,2) - why 1/8 sliders here o.o?
2016-02-14 23:32 Shiirn: cuz there is side of drum hits there but i dont want a 5-note 1/8
2016-02-14 23:33 phaZ: ahhh
2016-02-14 23:33 phaZ: ok
2016-02-14 23:33 phaZ: i didnt notice
2016-02-14 23:36 phaZ: still
2016-02-14 23:36 phaZ: think
2016-02-14 23:36 phaZ: a slider like the one after wards i still more fitting
2016-02-14 23:36 phaZ: because the sound
2016-02-14 23:37 phaZ: which you also can here at 00:27:061 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
2016-02-14 23:37 Shiirn: mmm
2016-02-14 23:37 Shiirn: i suppose. ill need to think about it
2016-02-14 23:37 phaZ: it feels too interrupted to me
2016-02-14 23:38 phaZ: if you map the drum snare thing there
2016-02-14 23:38 phaZ: well thats it
2016-02-14 23:38 phaZ: or i am not good enough to judge other flow things :3

i think ill look again into comfort and other diffs too in 4h

Last edited by phaZ 2016-02-15T14:07:48+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Mismagius

9,237 posts

Joined July 2008

Mismagius 2016-02-15T13:52:40+00:00

modpost is 30% ready, so this means i will have to finish it
expect it sometime tomorrow, please wait for me

CXu

osu! Alumni

3,558 posts

Joined March 2009

CXu 2016-02-15T14:50:59+00:00

Shiirn wrote:
Yauxo wrote:
(I dont care if you try to defend your map, just dont act like it's perfect)
I never said it was perfect. I've applied many mods just today. Most people I've spoken to like the map a lot, just a vocal minority like to find any reason to dislike the map.

Most pro player input I have gotten is that it plays very well for the most part and any parts that feel directly unfair as opposed to challenging are being found and weeded out.

The raw aesthetic rule of " you need to make sure no notes overlap and the map has the exact same style the entire map" is not going to happen here. If you want it to happen here, you're looking for the wrong map. Having a stringent rule of "sliders need to point directly at the next note or it is ugly" is just as silly. If you want to say "its all just a god damn mess" then have fun. I won't accept "change it because it looks bad" as a mod.

Most of the input I've gotten since the disqualification has been "shit from the thread, value from in-game". The people that are speaking their mind in this thread without giving specific advice (or are telling me I mapped a section wrong because they'd do it differently and refuse to see any sort of alternative) are completely useless. The people who chat with me in-game and discuss actual pattern shape and flow are far more valuable. As such, I'm going to give them the attention they deserve.

I'm going to go over Comfort with a very fine toothed comb over the next day while seeking (and going over already posted) input from people whom I know aren't just making shit up because they vaguely find the map disagreeable. After that, I'm going to work back towards qualification. If it gets DQ'd again, so be it. I will not be fillibustered out of ranking something I know is not just rankable, but pretty good. And Comfort is pretty good. It's nowhere near perfect, but perfect is unobtainable as there will always be people who think it should be different.

Not that I ever said you had to do any of those things. It's possible to make tasteful overlaps. It's possible to transition between styles without making it feel jarring (not that I even see that much of a style change in your diff in general). Doesn't change the fact that I don't think the map looks good though. But hey, since I dislike the map my input is completely useless anyway I guess? Yeah, I'm not modding it, because from the way you reply to these things I don't think you'd like/want my input anyway nor do I think you would agree with most of them. In the end it would just be me saying a bunch of things, and you rejecting it.

Still, I don't think writing opinions is useless. Maybe you do, but eh.

Kite

osu! Alumni

1,372 posts

Joined July 2009

Kite 2016-02-15T15:17:02+00:00

I don't mind you rejecting suggestions or feedback, since it's totally up to you what you do with your map, however...
Don't be disrespectful towards people that show criticism or negative feedback towards your map, because those type of remarks help you work out better solutions that still alligns with your initial idea, thus strengthening the foundation you can work with.
Criticism and negative feedback may actually be more valueable than people sugarcoating everything you do.

Anyways, good luck with your map!

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-02-15T16:13:18+00:00

CXu wrote:
Still, I don't think writing opinions is useless. Maybe you do, but eh.

I've replied to every actual mod with thought-out responses and a lot of acceptance. I don't understand where you get the idea that I deny all feedback. I just don't accept feedback that doesn't have actual suggestions. It's easy to say "this is ugly". It takes actual work to say "this is ugly to me because...".

WORSTPOLACKEU

511 posts

Joined May 2013

WORSTPOLACKEU 2016-02-15T16:22:20+00:00

I just want to point out.

00:17:478 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
Extremely awkward to play.
You can for example ctrl-g 00:17:895 (3,4) - those and it's much better.
I have played this part so many times and I still can't get it straight because the pattern is overshadowed by the most distinct sound.

00:44:665 (5,1) - This flow is very weird, and the next note is just spaced but is the same, I would ctrl-g 00:44:770 (1) - .

00:48:520 (5) - Why is it placed like that.

00:51:645 (4,5,1) - This pattern is really awkward situated, pattern before it is different and there is no change to the song really but the movement required is not jumpy anymore, it's linear and it makes it very weird to play.

00:54:874 (7,1,2,3) - This looks like you placed random notes to a different song, flow and rhythm is terror

01:05:395 (4,5,6,7) - :/ even the whole pattern 01:05:395 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - is just weird.

01:18:936 (1,2,3) - I think I hear 1/6 rhythm. Also 01:19:040 (3,4,5) - spacing increases when the song goes down. 01:32:895 (4,5) - Same here, why so?

01:20:915 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - This doesn't play as well as the one before it, the tones are not fit for this pattern.

01:23:311 (5) - looks like a dick xdddd
01:23:728 (1) - and this would be balls I guess

01:28:103 (3,4) - slider first then white tick note please

01:29:040 (6,7,1) - Stuff like this in the map makes it awkward to play at many places, the flow is just off.

01:32:270 (6,1) - Blanket.

01:32:895 (4) - I would ctrl-g

01:33:311 (1,2) - This just doesn't go well, why such big spacing? At some points it feels like you are spacing the map way higher than it should be and then when something special comes when imo you should increase it, you decrease it.

01:34:874 (4) - I don't like this one, ends at big white tick and that doesn't work that well, why not go 3 sliders in a row and a single tap at the end to accentuate the big white tick?

01:35:082 (1,2,3) - The sound at your triple is not a triple also you just jump towards 01:35:395 (4,5,6) - .
Mapping to different rhythms in one combo, don't know if that's a good idea.

01:17:478 (1,2) - Why not slider on white tick and note on red? It fits so much better.

xd

phaZ

739 posts

Joined October 2011

phaZ 2016-02-15T18:07:37+00:00

[comfort]
did some consistency check now

00:04:978 (4) - phrase starts here again so put NC here too, RNC at 00:05:395 (1) then
00:05:707 (4) - you might nc this, too like you did at 00:02:374 (1)
00:09:040 (5) and 00:09:561 (1) - different NC'ing again. although the first time the phrase is ending abruptly, i still recommend to keep them the same (just seems the most logical then to me)
01:51:957 (2,3) - ^ different NC'ing in the last part too ;w;
00:04:249 (1,2) - how it comes that so different from 00:10:915 (1,2) ?
00:12:374 (5) - NC issue like above
00:20:082 - shouldnt there be a wubbly slider here?
00:19:353 (1) - and 00:32:686 (1,2,3,4) - sounds actually similiar (and this sound is on the same spot in the repetition) if you remove your hitsounds. so make it the same too? this is a structure issue in ther way that, as a player you wont notice that it's actually the same again (thus map feels more random)
00:16:020 (1) - not as important but its a different style compared to 00:22:686 (1) - but why tho
00:17:270 (2) - where are my 1/6? (compare to 00:23:936 (2,3,4,5) - at the repetition). on a second note NC'ing is different here again but the music making differences here too so yea
00:33:311 (3) - 1/1 is really bad. the jumps and NC should start at the sliderend. anyway it is completely different mapped to 00:20:186 (6,1,2,3,4)
00:48:311 (4) - slider is off the synth, at 00:47:374 (3) you acrificed the strong drum to get the slider togethere with the synth. you basically did it all the time before so its kinda suprising to get off the synth-line/track here. make it like at 00:51:853 (1) (altough thats not exactly the repetition but it has the same rhythm)
00:55:186 (2) - ctrl+g would flow waaay better. also i think pursuing the previous pattern is out of place as the music changes here
00:56:228 (4) - where are your 1/8 drum following sliders now huh^^ (see 01:26:020 (1,2) - mentioned in IRC). i still think you should remove hte 1/8 sliders at the second time tho^^
00:55:968 - ^ same as above, add your 1/8 stream here then?
00:59:561 (1,2) - ctrl+g, still think it would flow awesome
01:01:436 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) - why not some scratch-mapping like at repetition at 01:08:311 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3)
01:01:645 (3) - anyway this finish is on wrong spot it should be at 01:01:540 - ~~i think this additional finish sounds awesome tho, so maybe instead add one at the repetition~~ also missing out the finish at 01:02:999 -
01:08:520 (2) - finish should be here like at ^
01:14:249 (6,1) - dafuq o.o? this should be like at 01:20:915 (1,2)
01:22:895 (1) - you didnt NC at 01:16:228 (4) tho
01:28:207 (4) - here you sacrifice the strong drum to follow the vocals, 01:27:374 (5,6) - here you didnt do this exactly
01:29:353 (1) - even tho the vocals are having a kind of a break here i think it is still more appropriate to make the NC at 01:29:561 (2) at the white tick/beginning of vocals (if even a NC is needed at all). i actually would make 2xcircle+2xslider at 01:29:353 (1,2,3,4) - (instead of the current 2xslider+2xcircle rhythm)
01:35:915 (1,2,3,4) - please make NC'ing and maybe similiar rhythm too (2xcircle+slider+circle) like at ^. this is again almost a repetition.
01:30:811 (4,5,6,7) - i know what youre are going for here but, this looks very similiar mapped when you followed the vocals, so when youre playing you also expect that. use a more different looking pattern here pls :s
01:48:832 (3) - isnt this slider like completely wring here? sounds like this to me: http://puu.sh/n90ca/202f3329c4.jpg ((5,6) are on 1/12 snap if you wanna map them)
01:49:353 (7) - NC here? theme is coming back again after that jazz like piano shout-in. you also did sth similiar at 01:50:915 (1)

could point even some more nazi stuff about rhythm and even spacing of patterns in terms of consitency but that seemed a bit unnessecary then
[extra]

00:03:728 (2,3,4,5) low spaced - 00:10:395 (3,4,5,6) high spaced. logic
00:04:249 (6,7) - 00:10:915 (1,2) - why the different rhythms
00:28:311 - where did all my wubbly sliders go in the repetition of this part 00:14:978 - ?
00:32:686 (1,2,3,4) - 00:19:145 (5,1,2,3) - make them the same? more memorisable then, too not mentioning its actually completely the same thing again
01:07:999 (1,1,2,3) - 01:01:332 (1,1,2,3,4) - map them in kinda the same way? at least fix that slider 01:01:332 (1)

modded this one just very briefly :/ i guess someone or you need to check some of the NC changes you might did on the comfort-diff and apply them here possibly too
[ongakus insane]

00:02:374 (1) - remove NC. compare to 00:08:311 (1,2,3)
00:08:728 (2) - for same reason as above make this also a repeat slider or the other an antijump-non-repeat-slider
00:48:520 - 00:49:145 - 00:49:457 - "The Disappearance of whistle-chan". it really hurts, i wold rather remove the drum-hitsounds for that. the normal-whsitles are exclusively for the special synth of this part (while the drum HS are basiclal everywhere) so at least keep it consistent.
00:54:874 - 00:55:395 - 00:55:603 - same as ^, you could actually put them on the sliderend, sliderbody, sliderbody so why not add them if you can?

very consistent
[]
i guess the rest is fine =w=
ahh why did you already kd the lazy irc mod <.<

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-02-15T20:30:50+00:00

For reference:

Don't trust the color of the ticks to tell you where the prominent beats are. Almost all of the sliders that end on white ticks are doing so because they are having the player click something that isn't just the bass.

Applied a lot of arphi and polack's mod, working on the rest. Replying to each would take forever but i will if necessary.

Hula

581 posts

Joined January 2013

Hula 2016-02-15T21:28:15+00:00

Why arphi got kds and i didn't?

Zare

1,512 posts

Joined March 2012

Zare 2016-02-15T21:33:02+00:00

I don't dislike this map.
You have some offbeat sliders in your peak diff, i'd prefer you changed those into something more fitting, but aside from that the map is really decent.

Ongaku

607 posts

Joined January 2014

Ongaku 2016-02-15T21:50:34+00:00

phaZ wrote:
[ongakus insane]
00:02:374 (1) - remove NC. compare to 00:08:311 (1,2,3) applied
00:08:728 (2) - for same reason as above make this also a repeat slider or the other an antijump-non-repeat-slider Kind of confused here...
00:48:520 - 00:49:145 - 00:49:457 - "The Disappearance of whistle-chan". it really hurts, i wold rather remove the drum-hitsounds for that. the normal-whsitles are exclusively for the special synth of this part (while the drum HS are basiclal everywhere) so at least keep it consistent. remade patterns and applied hitsounds for consistency
00:54:874 - 00:55:395 - 00:55:603 - same as ^, you could actually put them on the sliderend, sliderbody, sliderbody so why not add them if you can? same here
very consistent

Thanks for the mod!

Yauxo

1,622 posts

Joined June 2011

Yauxo 2016-02-15T22:26:14+00:00

Just kind of going over it. Youve already got enough mods in here, so Im not even going to bother, I'll just drop my tiny shit here.

I guess it's a good map (somewhat, not the best though, guess it's fun), but at the same time I feel like some playability factors went missing to compensate for some, not always necessary, aesthetics. Some random patterns that explain what I mean. Take it or leave it, Comfort
(Edit: I couldve sworn that the Comfort diff was named Routing when creating this post. Now I just look like some weirdo that tried to make a funny or impactful joke with the name of the song).

■ 00:09:561 (1,2) - 00:10:082 (1,2) - The map looks like it's going full-on for flow, at least that's what I assume all these blankets and rounded Sliders are for. If that's so, then these kinds of Sliders just dont fit in. They most likely could be thrown into the anti-flow chest, as the map (generally fast paced) and the mentioned combo ((1 -> 2) and (2a -> 2b), the slow forced back and forth) dont work well together. Even if you tried to blame this on the music, because of whatever silent note in the song, it just doesnt fit. Weird antiflow objects and fast flowy maps dont like each other.
■ 00:15:290 (2,3,4) - Whats up with that spacing? Both seperate combos are like a family that lost each other at a park or something. Put them back together, they dont like to be seperated. (really though, random speedups for seemingly no reason dont feel good)
■ 00:18:103 (4,5,6,7) - Compared to what kind of sounds made 00:13:936 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - so jumpy, this one shouldnt be this spaced.
■ 00:28:624 (2,3,4) - Strong sound is on (3), jump is on (4). It's the small things that make things feel weird.
■ 00:52:270 (3,4,5) - 01:13:728 (3,4,5) - Similar thing as above. Even though it has the shiny sound on it (which would explain the jump), I still dont think that mid-alternate (is that a word) jumps like these are any good. Maybe I just really like spacial equality.
■ 00:55:186 (2) - Sliderhead on the end of a strong beat feels "meh" as well. 00:55:082 (1) - 's sound is too strong to have something on where (2) sits. Probably wouldve been better if this (1) was a longer Slider.
■ 01:23:207 (4,5) - Not sure where that comes from, but my head tells me that this would feel much better if the combo/slider was released towards the right. Quick up/down movements are usually somewhat shaky and not precise, so having a less hard/fixed jump pattern (-> not always to the left) might be easier. Probably nonsense.

idkmanidontlike7*plusmapsidkifthispostevenmakessense

Last edited by Yauxo 2016-02-16T00:37:33+00:00, edited 2 times in total.

Mismagius

9,237 posts

Joined July 2008

Mismagius 2016-02-15T23:24:56+00:00

MOST OF THESE SUGGESTIONS WERE DONE BEFORE LOTS OF THE PREVIOUS MODS SO A LOT OF STUFF DOESN'T MAKE SENSE ANYMORE. Posting the unfinished thing here before I just give up with it. If I ever get to modding the rest I'll do it, idk.

Hi! First off, this mod will be done throughout a busy day I'll be having, so I *may* have a few inconsistent points, so I'm sorry for that! I'm also with a small hearing issue and I'm not listening to everything clearly so I may end up missing a few stuff or pinpointing what isn't 100% right. If I ever come across as rude in the mod I'm sorry! I'm just really trying to get some stuff which feels awkward so next time you get this qualified, people won't be mad at you. All of these are with the actual intention of helping and not trashtalking the map, and most of these will be told from a player's perspective since, in the case of 7* maps, it matters slightly more than a mapper's perspective. I'll still be doing comments for aesthetical stuff and nazi things when necessary (or not), though.

[Comfy]

00:03:520 (1) - I feel like this NC doesn't really belong here at all. Yes, you are showing that the song has changed instrument/intensity, but this is such a small change/sound that it just doesn't matter at all. I'd either take the NC off from this or 00:03:728 (1) - as there is no need to have both here. If you choose to let these, then you might want to add a NC to places like 00:04:561 (2) - since the intensity change here is much more interesting to emphasize with a NC and you didn't do it.
00:05:915 (5,2) - Nazi - these aren't perfectly stacked
00:08:311 (1,5) - ^
00:09:561 (1,2) - ^, but this isn't really my issue with this one. The fact that you have a counter-logical movement between the end of (6) and (1) is already a big issue usually, but then (2) just simply has a unnatural movement that plays extremely awkward and feels like just a gimmicky pattern made for the sake of it. The song doesn't really support "going back to where you wre before" so there's no need for something like this. If you really want to keep something like this in a way that I can support it, then you can go full tengaku and do this. Note that the screenshot also suggests a good new placement for (3) which does play kinda awkwardly, but still much better than what it is now.
00:10:082 (1,2) - Badly stacked, and same issue as before, however this isn't as big of an issue because there is a break before. Still not something I fully support, but I believe you won't want to change this.
00:11:645 (1) - This slider has a few issues. It's not perfectly blanketing (2)'s sliderend, also looks really ugly with the curve from the previous slider barely touching it, aaaand also it flows really badly, as it is forcing you to make an unnatural movement (going up following (2), then you have to instantly go right and up->left again to follow (1). If you don't mind about the blanketing, then the solution to fix the flow will be ctrl+G'ing (1) and (3) like this, which results in a much more natural movement and doesn't break your pattern in any way.
00:13:936 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - As a tap player I don't really like these jumps and I feel like they aren't really nice to alternate as well due to their movement and distance, but I may be wrong here, so I won't really suggest you to change, just a small quick comment
00:15:290 (2,3,4) - Yes, I get your point with the spacing difference you're using here. Yes, it does follow the song to a certain extent. But then here comes the biggest issue of it all: Does it *actually* play well and intuitive? A player might be easily able to sightread/play this spacing, but it still doesn't make up for the fact that it is not as enjoyable to play. The biggest problem here, however, is that the song does support jumps like these, but you still have to find a way to make them play better than they do right now. These sudden changes in spacing and flow are what makes the map 'choppy' to play for most people, it's not even about the blanketing or the crazy 288 jumps. I know that this was done on purpose and you may want to keep them since it is the essence of the map, but if you ever think about changing it, then, in this case, stacking (3,4) would make it better as you're not exactly going through a weird spacing change and is just playing a stacked note which is a much more interesting cursor movement. If you really want to keep this, though, then at least properly blanket (4) with (1)'s start.
00:15:707 (5,6) - Unnatural movement, as explained before (this also looks a bit ugly for me but it may be just me). It doesn't really make the pattern much prettier, but turning the slider around like this may make it nicer to play.
00:16:645 (3,2) - Nazi, these are not perfectly stacked. Don't forget to fix 00:17:999 (4) - if you care about this!
00:17:999 (4) - I'd reeeeeally really rotate this slider slightly so you actually make a star movement when playing (right now, (4)'s length makes you have to go up instead of going straight to (5) which may be creative, but doesn't exactly play nicely). Rotating this by -30º using selection centre worked nicely for me.
00:19:874 (4,5) - I already talked about these so it's your choice if you want to keep them. There's something about this one that makes it really confusing for me to sightread and I end up pressing (4) thinking it's a slider. This may be an issue you might look out for, since in a 7.5* map you really need to make these things more intuitive. It may be an issue to another DQ later.
00:21:228 (3) - It may be just me, but the intensity jump between (2,3) is much bigger than (1,2), so you may want to emphasize this better. Something like this does the trick for me, but it may feel weird/ugly to you (and it also kills your pattern ;_;). Still, it's a better attempt to follow the song, in my view.
00:22:895 (1,2) - I feel like the spacing between these two is way too low... This is almost the spacing you've been using for 1/8s, while you just had a few 2.40x 1/4 jumps. Intensity is pretty much the same so I don't see why use this as a spacing rest. If you think about changing this, doing this would be a nice way to fix it (and also the pattern looks prettier in my eyes).
00:23:311 (3) - Nazi, but this isn't perfectly stacked with 00:22:478 (4) - .
00:23:936 (2,3,4,5) - Nazi as well, spacing between (4,5) is different than (2,3,4).
00:27:686 (1,2,3,4) - Something about this pattern just makes me not like it. Maybe it is the fact that (1) is almost touching (6), the fact that the sliders are way too curved or (3,4)'s repeats just being way too unintuitive, like you don't know when to start holding each slider and when to stop (aside from looking at the approach circles, but let's be honest, who does this nowadays, especially in a 7 star map). I don't.. really have a suggestion for this, sorry I just don't want to break your mapping so I'll leave it up to you if you want to do something about this/how you want to do it.
00:28:832 (4,5,6) - Same issue as 00:15:290 (2,3,4) - so I won't really blabber about it again, just if you want to fix this, placing (5) at 496;152 works fine and creates a nice kind-of-triangle between (2,3,5).
00:30:811 (3,6) - Pretty weird blanketing here, (3)'s start is much farther away from the smaller slider than the ending is, but there's a bigger issue here:
00:31:332 (6) - You're missing a clickable sound at 00:31:436 - . I won't go around explaining the basics of how beats have to be clickable & etc so I'll spare you the details and send you up a suggestion on how it could be made using the mapping logic you used here.
00:33:311 (3) - Same as 00:30:811 (3,6) - , seems like a ctrl+> fixes this one instanty though.
00:34:249 (1,1,2,3,4) - This one just feels extremely unintuitive to play because the spacing just goes much different than what you've been using for the past 5 seconds or so. I think something like this should work better while using your mapping logic. Note that 00:34:249 (1) - is stacked over 00:33:832 (3) - .
00:36:540 (1) - This slider looks slightly ugly, so I'll be giving you a code with a better curve if you want, here
00:37:061 (1,5) - Nazi - not perfectly stacked
00:37:895 (1) - Nazi - moving the last sliderpoint to 252;192 makes this blanket look a bit better
00:38:311 (3) - ^, moving the middle point to 268;48 does the same thing
00:39:457 (2) - Nazi again, doesn't perfectly stack with 00:38:936 (3) - . I know these are really annoying and small but I'm just pointing them out for the sake of "if you don't want to fix them that's completely fine, if you want to fix them it's a small improvement"
00:40:186 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - haha tengaku memes xD

Shohei Ohtani

Shohei Ohtani 2016-02-15T23:26:40+00:00

when you can't find mods so you get your map qualified then get a bunch of post-DQ modders with giant mod posts

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-02-15T23:57:42+00:00

I'd like to point out BD's half-finished mod has given more insight than most other mods I've gotten for a while. Also did Yuaxo's mod, but if I hear the word "flow" one more time without any sort of explanation as to what they feel flow is (because seriously ask 5 people and you'll get 5 different definitions of flow) i'm going to kick monstrata's cat

Arphimigon

1,650 posts

Joined December 2014

Arphimigon 2016-02-16T00:11:28+00:00

Flow:
"Stop using this word, it's worse than swag."

ps: my mod only mentioned flow at the end in the bonus section cus its subjective pls dont kill

Yauxo

1,622 posts

Joined June 2011

Yauxo 2016-02-16T00:32:09+00:00

Clarification: I just use flow as a word that explains mapinternal intuitive movement (and maybe placement). Not subjective "I like what I do, but yours is bad" flow.

Natsu

8,074 posts

Joined September 2012

Natsu 2016-02-16T01:28:42+00:00

I'd love to see you reply to mod, specially to the ones you ignore (Hula's one for example), to be honest without reply its hard to know what is going on with the map.

Hula

581 posts

Joined January 2013

Hula 2016-02-16T01:30:59+00:00

serious shiirn, don't be that guy.

You were on about flow before, I mentioned flow a fair bit because I saw you made that big reply to cxu's post which was strongly based on flow. And nearly all the mods mention flow. It's real. This is you btw

Really?

My mod might not be amazing, but it certainly isn't terrible. I made valid points about some rhythms at the very least. And my mod is asking you questions, that's a key thing as a mapper, being able to answer why you mapped things. Srsly. Don't be that guy.

Liiraye

1,354 posts

Joined December 2011

Liiraye 2016-02-16T02:15:45+00:00

Yauxo wrote:
Clarification: I just use flow as a word that explains mapinternal intuitive movement (and maybe placement). Not subjective "I like what I do, but yours is bad" flow.

Kinda offtopic, but isn't intuitive a subjective term? My definition of flow is just patterns/notes that complement eachother and (may, but not always) align well using a smooth movement. Jumps and gimmicky patterns are to be defined on their own as you can't really tell what flow is when it comes to cross screen curled sliders x.x

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Topic Starter

Shiirn 2016-02-16T02:31:03+00:00

My usage of the word "Flow" in the tour was not related to the abstract definition everyone seems to divine from their own bowel movements, but in the literal sense of the word, going in a straight direction from one to the next.

Styx

57 posts

Joined August 2014

Styx 2016-02-16T02:32:10+00:00

got u fam

Camellia - Routing

Sign In To Proceed

Don't have an account?

Camellia - Routing

fieryrage wrote:

Anxient wrote:

Shiirn wrote:

Yauxo wrote:

Anxient wrote:

Shiirn wrote:

Yauxo wrote:

CXu wrote:

phaZ wrote:

Yauxo wrote:

New reply