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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Catch the Beat)

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iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo

Tom94 wrote:

Kingkevin30 wrote:

This is platewalking
Thanks, I know it is hard and completely underrated at the moment - but didn't know what it was called. :)
Thanks for taking time out of your day to help out the CTB Community, I know you don't play CTB so creating a formula for PP Gain on CTB must be very tough, but platewalking is indeed hard and takes very good timing and accuracy, also you should calculate maps like Distorted Love Song and Cheshire,s Dance a lot more, getting less than 150 PP for a AR10 stream map is kind of absurd. I'm not really sure how you would create a formula to do that? so best of luck I guess, the only way I can think of is to calculate the hard parts in a map sort of like "Platewalking" Or "Back and forth jumps" Like what you did etc.


Best of luck.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,436 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
Unlike osu! standard, AR is much more important in CTB. You have limited movement speed. You can't just move the catcher faster if you have a delayed reaction. Well you can, but at least for me a lot of CTB is muscle memory and if you have to adjust on the fly it gets a lot less consistent, especially at higher ARs.
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl

Kingkevin30 wrote:

Tom94 wrote:

What do you mean by platewalking?


This is platewalking
why me, shame
VelperK
osu!catch Champion
1,172 posts
Joined May 2010
VelperK

eldnl wrote:

Kingkevin30 wrote:



This is platewalking
why me, shame
well...

khdragon260
2 posts
Joined April 2014
khdragon260
Well I really like this system it lets new players join without too much pressure, and allows them to play with a sense of importance on their part. Also just so we are clear..... I'm going straight for the number 1 spot. in due time my friends. I play this more than i play Xbox one. :!: :!: :!:
-Ryuujii-
259 posts
Joined November 2012
-Ryuujii-

khdragon260 wrote:

Well I really like this system it lets new players join without too much pressure, and allows them to play with a sense of importance on their part. Also just so we are clear..... I'm going straight for the number 1 spot. in due time my friends. I play this more than i play Xbox one. :!: :!: :!:
That is a sad life.
tsundoll
108 posts
Joined April 2013
tsundoll

-Ryuujii- wrote:

khdragon260 wrote:

Well I really like this system it lets new players join without too much pressure, and allows them to play with a sense of importance on their part. Also just so we are clear..... I'm going straight for the number 1 spot. in due time my friends. I play this more than i play Xbox one. :!: :!: :!:
That is a sad life.
Pretending other players aren't just as full of themselves? Hah. Good one.
DxNightwave
80 posts
Joined June 2013
DxNightwave
Pretending other players aren't just as full of themselves? Hah. Good one.[/quote]

WOW that really is, a sad life, 10/10 best person whom knows all, grace me with your knowledge : 3
-Ryuujii-
259 posts
Joined November 2012
-Ryuujii-
understand me what means that, please Kappa
DxNightwave
80 posts
Joined June 2013
DxNightwave

-Ryuujii- wrote:

understand me what means that, please Kappa
You troll : )
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo

khdragon260 wrote:

Well I really like this system it lets new players join without too much pressure, and allows them to play with a sense of importance on their part. Also just so we are clear..... I'm going straight for the number 1 spot. in due time my friends. I play this more than i play Xbox one. :!: :!: :!:

hey it's me LOL hi twin


Just kidding.

Your going to get eaten alive, just like me if you start talking like that.
tsundoll
108 posts
Joined April 2013
tsundoll

khdragon260 wrote:

Well I really like this system it lets new players join without too much pressure, and allows them to play with a sense of importance on their part. Also just so we are clear..... I'm going straight for the number 1 spot. in due time my friends. I play this more than i play Xbox one. :!: :!: :!:
It's good to have ambition at any rate.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,436 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
Literally free pp in this map (the Easy!)

I don't know what happens to easier songs, but it obviously overrates some of them to ridiculous amounts. The few jumps that require dashing are 1/1 at 120 BPM. These notes are spaced 500 ms which is more than enough to catch them. The fact that they are across the screen does not make them hard, because they are spaced in the timeline and it's only one part of the map that has this. It was so easy to play that I didn't want to add a third mod to it, because it would give me a ton more pp than it should be worth.



Three mods so OP.
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30

TheVileOne wrote:

Literally free pp in this map (the Easy!)

I don't know what happens to easier songs, but it obviously overrates some of them to ridiculous amounts. The few jumps that require dashing are 1/1 at 120 BPM. These notes are spaced 500 ms which is more than enough to catch them. The fact that they are across the screen does not make them hard, because they are spaced in the timeline and it's only one part of the map that has this. It was so easy to play that I didn't want to add a third mod to it, because it would give me a ton more pp than it should be worth.



Three mods so OP.
There are many "Easy/Normal diff PP Maps"..
here are some interesting ones, maybe that will help finding out what kind of pp-base rating would be right for them.
Scooter - And No Matches {Hop!}
Caramell - Caramelldansen {Normal}
Mario Tennis 64 - Peach's Secret Court {Set Point}
Nobuo Uematsu - You're Not Alone {Normal}
Lin-G - I Want You {Normal}
2pm - Tetris {Level 3}
Kitokofox
osu! Alumni
455 posts
Joined August 2012
Kitokofox
It's time I make a very lengthy post again.

Stats for CtB:
Spacing difficulty (Dist)
This stat is an alpha of the jump difficulties. Each note has a difficulty assigned to it based on it's placement.
Since CtB is a constantly moving game, it's not just based on the distances between each fruit, but also the leading fruit. So, each fruit has their set difficulty to get to the next fruit, with an addition of the difficulty from the previous fruit's difficulty.
Control action speed (Speed)
Speed is the amount of rigorous hand movement and coordination required to catch the fruits in addition to the BPM.
Accuracy of movement required (Acc)
This is determined by the circle size, as well as the sliders involved. Not a big stat but can be more powerful with wild sliders and sliders going beyond walking speed as well as fruits getting very small.
Approach rate difficulty (App)
Higher AR rates are more difficult in terms of difficulty and are based on the time the fruits are on screen. AR11 is 1.5x more difficult than AR10.

Mods
and how they affect the game and difficulty.

Difficulty Increase

Hidden
This mod provides less visibility. In this case, it makes it harder to be accurate with the fruits, and requires a little more timing ability. Difficult jumps become increasingly harder. This isn't too much of a difficulty increase but it's enough to be very notable in jumpy maps. Low approach rates also make this mod a tiny bit more difficult because of how much more memorization is required. It becomes only slightly less difficult with higher and approach rates.
Slight boost to:
+Acc
Good boost to:
+Dist (Depends on AR a little too)

DoubleTime
This mod provides increased beatmap speed. This also means increased approach rate, increased need of control, and increased need for jump movement. This is the more difficult modifier of the two 1.06x score increases. This can also increase little slow streams into something more difficult.
Slight boost to:
+Acc
Good boost to:
+Dist
+App
Big boost to:
+Speed

HardRock
Also popular among players for the instant ticket to AR9.8 and AR10. It makes the fruits smaller and increases the approach rate where it can be increased. It makes it more difficult to get a good accuracy as well. It also scrambles the fruits a little, so the distance difficulty should be calculated as if the map were scrambled up with HardRock.
Good boost to:
+Dist
+App (Depends on the AR, it maxes at AR10)
Big boost to:
+Acc

Flashlight
Still the most powerful of the 1.12x score mods, is Flashlight. It provides limited visibility, including difficulty in seeing large jumps and getting good accuracy. It makes approach shorter because of the limited visibility above, as well.
Good boost to:
+Acc
Big boost to:
+App
+Dist

Difficulty Decrease

NoFail
his mod does nothing except prevent you from failing. No stat change whatsoever.

Easy
This modifier tones down the stats of the map, but not the notes. this includes reduced difficulty on needing to aim at jumps, the accuracy involved, and the approach rate. When joined with hidden, this increases the difficulty of aiming a little when AR is very low.
Slight decrease to:
-Dist (Except when AR gets low when used with hidden)
Good decrease to:
-Acc
Big decrease to:
-App

HalfTime
also a powerful difficulty reduction mod in it's own speculation. It reducdes speed as well as the approach rate and hit aim requirement a little, being the exact opposite of DoubleTime.
Slight decrease to:
-Acc
Good decrease to:
-Dist
-App
Big decrease to:
-Speed

I hope this helps you. In a lot of cases, you can't just use a % change for maps when using mods. It just doesn't work, with how diverse maps are.

I also think that my definition on jump distance here might rectify the "Long jumps being uber powerful" thing. In some cases they are though (Like Wild eyes and Go Berzerk, they have those jumps all over)
Salamat
60 posts
Joined October 2013
Salamat
I'm losing rank because of improving songs? K den
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30
i just noticed.. some mod combinations are haaarshly underrated, i mean the amount of pp from this "easy" HR+HD record is really way to high in comparison to the other Mod combinations
Magicu_old
4 posts
Joined April 2014
Magicu_old
I don't really care about the ranking system to begin with. In my opinion, growth is never AS accurate or weighed properly by scripts and whatever is used in creating a natural ranking system. But, that's just me. As for the community, I wouldn't mind a little revamping and work did on the ranking system. I think it could be a bit more redefined and more user-friendly.
Granger
835 posts
Joined April 2014
Granger
Is there any way to hide/remove scores? Honestly, i got a new top rank that is even more broken than the old one from Still Alive, who'd have guessed that this is even possible? I dont want those PPs, i dont deseve them.


Its a 6.13 star map that plays like some 4 star map, i was able to FC it with ease. Could HR it too but id rather not...

Anyways, i theres some correlation with Still alive, high circle size and 1/4 closs screen jumps.
Zak
641 posts
Joined February 2012
Zak
Most people are aware of maps like the giving extreme amounts of pp, it hasn't been fixed yet, and I doubt it will be any time soon.
lineqtxz
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
134 posts
Joined July 2011
lineqtxz
rip
CelegaS
484 posts
Joined April 2012
CelegaS
After easy map giving tons of pp there are hard map giving nothing. I love ppv2.
-Ryuujii-
259 posts
Joined November 2012
-Ryuujii-
VOTE for go berzerk best map 2014!..wait
-PM-
68 posts
Joined August 2012
-PM-
So when nurf patch pp amount of HT?
Yukiteru Amano
409 posts
Joined September 2012
Yukiteru Amano
When Will FL get nurfed?
Zak
641 posts
Joined February 2012
Zak

-PM- wrote:

So when nurf patch pp amount of HT?

Yukiteru Amano wrote:

When Will FL get nurfed?
Never
Kitokofox
osu! Alumni
455 posts
Joined August 2012
Kitokofox

Zak wrote:

-PM- wrote:

So when nurf patch pp amount of HT?

Yukiteru Amano wrote:

When Will FL get nurfed?
Never
I see nothing wrong with FL. It's a very difficult mod and totally worth the performance if you pull it off (and the points too)

As for HT, there's going to be a speed factor implemented for CtB pp so you might see that getting calculated much like it does with doubletime.
:)
follon
20 posts
Joined February 2014
follon
Full mode SS gives less PP than HD HR FL. (Not weighet pp)
Map: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/94942?m=2
Screenshot: http://puu.sh/bZjRa/f54033b86e.jpg
#1 got 240
I got 255
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30

follon wrote:

Full mode SS gives less PP than HD HR FL. (Not weighet pp)
Map: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/94942?m=2
Screenshot: http://puu.sh/bZjRa/f54033b86e.jpg
#1 got 240
I got 255
wow...that is really dumb xD, i just checked to with Osu!Trainer, you're right..
DeletedUser_500696
DeletedUser_500696

Yukiteru Amano wrote:

When Will FL get nurfed?
PLS yuki, FL on ar8+ needs to be boosted imo, there are less FL players now than like 4 years ago makes me sad. Also I think EZ+FL should be worth 1.00x at the least hue
- Rii -
189 posts
Joined December 2013
- Rii -
imo
1. you people do realize yuki's reply about fl is just a sarcasm to the previous post right?
2. there are reasons why there are less fl player nowadays and that is not just because it gives less of this bullshit points
3. this bullshit points already have tons of proof that it is broken and even (much) worse than the previous one, at least for now
4. i don't think it would be that simple to fix all of those crap anytime soon, especially when tom seems pretty much busy with other stuffs as well
5. if you want this to get resolved quickly, try playing any maps you like and enjoy this game mode the way it is or go away/play other games... pretty much the best solution
alxnr
42 posts
Joined September 2010
alxnr

- Rii - wrote:

imo
1. you people do realize yuki's reply about fl is just a sarcasm to the previous post right?
2. there are reasons why there are less fl player nowadays and that is not just because it gives less of this bullshit points
3. this bullshit points already have tons of proof that it is broken and even (much) worse than the previous one, at least for now
4. i don't think it would be that simple to fix all of those crap anytime soon, especially when tom seems pretty much busy with other stuffs as well
5. if you want this to get resolved quickly, try playing any maps you like and enjoy this game mode the way it is or go away/play other games... pretty much the best solution
Nuh-uh, playing other games won't have any effect to this.
- Rii -
189 posts
Joined December 2013
- Rii -

alxnr wrote:

Nuh-uh, playing other games won't have any effect to this.
so you think by saying that will give any effect to this?
alxnr
42 posts
Joined September 2010
alxnr

- Rii - wrote:

so you think by saying that will give any effect to this?
Of course... not.
Zak
641 posts
Joined February 2012
Zak
Going to be honest and say there's probably not much more to discuss here until Tom comes back to work on CtB's pp system and rework it as we've covered almost everything that can be right now. So it's probably best to let it sit here instead of arguing until then.

Or just remove pp, that works too.
Yukiteru Amano
409 posts
Joined September 2012
Yukiteru Amano
Agree.
alxnr
42 posts
Joined September 2010
alxnr
Sorry, couldn't resist that. I hope Tom gets back into this soon.
lineqtxz
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
134 posts
Joined July 2011
lineqtxz
hi
Ddraigon
278 posts
Joined February 2012
Ddraigon
I don't really know about pp ranking system in CtB. But, different mode, different difficulty. Example, AR9HDDT is more difficult than AR9HDHR, and for some map with many jumps (and because that the pp's map is overhigh) I think it's a part of CtB difficulty. CtB difficulty not only HyperJumps, but Mod, AR, CS, rapid stream, weird pattern, etc are must be considered to pp's map, not just jumps. That's my opinion.

And for me, with pp ranking (although it's broken), It's motivated me to improve my skill. So, I disagree with no-pp system ranking.

But keep play and enjoy the game, the music, and the map.
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30


uhhhhhh the change is slowly comming *.* (thats a screen of the changelog of the cutting edge version)
[ZooM]
75 posts
Joined March 2010
[ZooM]
I play at least Hard difficulty and Hidden never turn off. Over the past few days received 2 PP. Where are my PP, developers?

P.S. Oh, and I lost about 200 places these days.
Zak
641 posts
Joined February 2012
Zak
You are not entitled to pp because you play Hard diff's with Hidden. If it bothers you that much player harder maps.
[ZooM]
75 posts
Joined March 2010
[ZooM]

Zak wrote:

You are not entitled to pp because you play Hard diff's with Hidden. If it bothers you that much player harder maps.
Hard - is the minimum. Often Insane or something like that. I get into the top 50 on the highest difficulty. Let the map is not the most difficult in the game, but its better than I have been only 20-40 people. Do not people deserve some PP? It is illogical and unfair. In the good old days was only Ranked Score, fair and clear.
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30

[ZooM] wrote:

Zak wrote:

You are not entitled to pp because you play Hard diff's with Hidden. If it bothers you that much player harder maps.
Hard - is the minimum. Often Insane or something like that. I get into the top 50 on the highest difficulty. Let the map is not the most difficult in the game, but its better than I have been only 20-40 people. Do not people deserve some PP? It is illogical and unfair. In the good old days was only Ranked Score, fair and clear.
dude, values have changed in the past years, you were there in the begging..thats true but you just visited the game every few months, people were unhappy that score ranking was about time effort and strategysing about score farming, then ppv1 came and people found maps that fell out of the system because of the number of scores on a map, or people always having the exact same high rank because of 0-Spinner SS's and many more weird situations...
and people were and maybe are to some extend unhappy with how ppv2 works, but you shouldn't critize it, it only does the thing that the major part of the community wanted..giving a ranking were your skill is the most important value. in ppv2 you have to play a combination of high distance,high AR,High CS-Combination to get the most out of a map...and peppy made it even easier, now you can just look up how many pp someone got for a map..if the record you're looking for is not in the top100 Best perfomance of a player then it's below his lowest value...so if you really care about having a high rank then put the effort into getting those points, and if you don't want to..thats also fine, everyone just wants to enjoy this game in his/her own ways, but don't call bullshit on people who are actually putting an effort into pleasing their community members.
Last edited by Kingkevin30 , edited 2 times in total.
[ZooM]
75 posts
Joined March 2010
[ZooM]

Kingkevin30 wrote:

dude, values have changed in the past years, you were there in the begging..thats true but you just visited the game every few months, people were unhappy that score ranking was about time effort and strategysing about score farming, then ppv1 came and people found maps that fell out of the system because of the number of scores on a map, or people always having the exact high rank because of 0-Spinner SS's and many more weird situations...
and people were and maybe are to some extend unhappy with how ppv2 works, but you shouldn't critize it, it only does the thing that the major part of the community wanted..giving a ranking were your skill is the most important value. in ppv2 you have to play a combination of high distance,high AR,High CS-Combination to get the most out of a map...and peppy made it even easier, now you can just look up how many pp someone got for a map..if the record you're looking for is not in the top100 Best perfomance of a player then it's below his lowest value...so if you really care about having a high rank then put the effort into getting those points, and if don't want to thats also fine, everyone just wants to enjoy this game in his/her own ways, but don't call bullshit on people who are actually putting an effort into pleasing their community members.


I understand, but this is the case - a person gets 1st place on the map and get, for example, 100 PP. And all the rest get nothing. But their score may be less likely to 5000-10000. Okay, insane with Hidden is simply because even if only for 5-10 PP give. I did not ask to get me in the top 3. Just want some return for the hours spent in the game.

This imbalance. I think that is wrong.
Granger
835 posts
Joined April 2014
Granger
You want something in return? What do you gain from some number?
You gain a good map rank in return, isnt that good enough? And thats just a number. Again.

Honestly i never saw what people see in all those numbers, is it admiration from less good players they're after? But you can get that by FCing the newest ultrahard map much better than from some number.
Zak
641 posts
Joined February 2012
Zak
You don't get pp by getting a high rank, most of the time a map I get rank 1 on doesn't give anything, and you want to know why? Because the map isn't hard enough to give anything, ppv1 based your pp on rank/accuracy, ppv2 takes map difficulty and counts miss count+combo.

So again, if you're not getting anything, you need to FC harder maps, you can't get pp forever by sticking to the same difficulty range, you do eventually have to move on to harder and harder maps.
-Ryuujii-
259 posts
Joined November 2012
-Ryuujii-
aha yes yes ! go berzerk go berzerk!
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30

[ZooM] wrote:

I understand, but this is the case - a person gets 1st place on the map and get, for example, 100 PP.
And all the rest get nothing. But their score may be less likely to 5000-10000.
thats a pretty ridiciolus assumption my friend...did you ever check how many pp everyone else is getting on a Scoreboard,
i bet you did not. because this is how most Scoreboards look like:




ohh wow how suprising, it seems that this beatmap has been difficult for most players in his Top 50 because their combo is decreasing and so is there pp that there getting out of it.

well lets look at the different outputs in comparesion now...
hmm Kenji did got 274pp out of a HR+HD on this map...does that seem fair? as far as im concerned, yes it very well deserves this high amount, playing this with both mods activated makes it signifficantly more difficult (atleast 1/3's harder) then the other used mod combinations.

up to the next one..

PM got 209pp for playing with Hidden, around 1pp more then all the other people who Hidden FC'ed it...is that fair? of course, beeing accurate is hard, it's not changing the overall difficulty too much, but still should be awarded, so this is also fine as im converned

next one...

so now the Nomod FC's starts with the same thing about accuracy i just explained on PM's case...so how about getting -25pp in comparison to the HD FC's
does that seem fair? now its getting a bit more complicated, Hidden is about perception so everyone has their own ideal of "how much harder is playing Hidden compared to nomod" but in a general sense everyone agrees that it adds to a difficulty of a map, so something like 10-30pp more for a Hidden Record is also fine...it takes effort to do such stuff.

and as we are going down the scoreboard ladder people are getting less and less pp even though they got such a close combo to a FC...is that fair?

now we have to take in mind that the meaning of PP is "PERFOMANCE Points" so that means that your skill has to be around the same "perfomance", you must be able to do something as difficult as the last "good perfomance".

so that was the whole scoreboard....if you really think that these values are incorrent, then pls tell Tom94 and give some advice on how it should be changed..
-Ryuujii-
259 posts
Joined November 2012
-Ryuujii-
TL;DR PLEASE KEVIN
23153901293
21 posts
Joined November 2012
23153901293
Kevin marry me
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
What mod is "NV"?
DeathXHunter
DeathXHunter
No video,newfag
Granger
835 posts
Joined April 2014
Granger
What did those improvements do? Im noticing nothing different... Except that all star ratings were cut in half.

Kind of depressing that those 6 stars like shiawase gift i struggle with are just 3 starswhich is just a normal when comparing to stds staratings.
Scorpionek
Scorpionek
Not sure if Kevin's in love with ppv2 or he didn't mention how "fair" HT and mods multiplayers are on purpose.
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30

Scorpionek wrote:

Not sure if Kevin's in love with ppv2 or he didn't mention how "fair" HT and mods multiplayers are on purpose.
im cutting into my own flesh if im talking bad about HT-PP Farming *kappa*...

just kiddin, i think we all know that HT is too overpowered right now,but it also shouldn't loose too much of it's potential since HT is still "kinda hard" to exicute on hard High AR Patterns
[224]Reol
Former osu!catch Champion: 2015
64 posts
Joined September 2013
[224]Reol
is the new star rating/pp system for ctb on test build final?????
Samui_old_1
151 posts
Joined November 2012
Samui_old_1
new star rating algorithm is still work in progress on cuttingedge.

pp system will be work in progress after the star rating algorithm on cuttingedge is final.
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94
The Catch the Beat performance points are currently undergoing a re-calculation after an algorithm update. Please visit the changelog for further information.

I'm aware that things are still far from perfect. Most notably: Clutch timings including pixel jumps are still underrated while certain other patterns get weighted too much. I hope to address those issues in further updates. Please wait until the re-calculations finished for everybody until giving feedback. Even if you pp changes drastically your best performance list might not have been updated accordingly yet. ;)
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,425 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
A lot of love for this update.
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30

Stefan wrote:

A lot of love for this update.
yeah, i really appreciate your hard work on this Tom ^^
im hoping the recalculations and the tweaking of some values will be finished soon
but right now it seems pretty balanced between various "difficult" playing styles
like the Low AR HD stuff, some FL Bonuses, and the "above AR9" boosts
Girgias
3 posts
Joined October 2013
Girgias
Dunno if I'm actually that bad or not but i lost 11 thousand places with the algorithm change >___< so welp and 99% of my maps got reclassified in 1 star or 2 stars even if the title is difficult and would more likely need 4 stars or so how but thats just my opinion.
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30

Girgias wrote:

Dunno if I'm actually that bad or not but i lost 11 thousand places with the algorithm change >___< so welp and 99% of my maps got reclassified in 1 star or 2 stars even if the title is difficult and would more likely need 4 stars or so how but thats just my opinion.
the recalculations aren't finished yet. People aswell as the pp-outputs of most maps probabbly have to be updated before assumptions on the calculations would be viable
Riari
743 posts
Joined April 2013
Riari
I'd be happy with a nice buff to DT...

;_;
eend
2 posts
Joined January 2014
eend
Pls just don't change it back
Last edited by eend , edited 1 time in total.
Zak
641 posts
Joined February 2012
Zak

thijner14 wrote:

Pls just change it back :(
Don't complain that your pp farm maps don't count anymore and use this chance to learn how to play better.
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo
WE DID IT BOYS

manjumochi
162 posts
Joined April 2013
manjumochi
Just trying to undertand why increase pp bonus on low AR in CTB, higher AR really makes this mode more difficulty and low AR also isn't that hard to read (actually, is easier to read).
Minhtam
550 posts
Joined September 2014
Minhtam
So are these PP scores going to be adjusted appropriately on my profile? It would really suck if they remained as they were before the update.

Lay
412 posts
Joined December 2013
Lay
So...I love the sounds of this update. However...as above With Girgias, I went from 3.9k to 11.2 and lost almost half my pp...will it be staying like that or is this only due to the recalculation phase and I can expect it to change again?
PepsiCat
19 posts
Joined August 2014
PepsiCat
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Last edited by PepsiCat , edited 1 time in total.
ZiRoX
Elite Mapper
1,053 posts
Joined November 2009
ZiRoX
It seems people don't understand raw pp doesn't mean anything
autofanboy
Elite Mapper / osu!trivium Champion
1,594 posts
Joined January 2011
autofanboy

ZiRoX wrote:

It seems people don't understand raw pp doesn't mean anything
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
aPPocalypse
Yuzeyun
7,650 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
Gotta love how Right Round got destroyed from 180ish to 51 (SS Nomod). I found it was much harder than https://osu.ppy.sh/b/25990?m=2 :c (due to the nature of jumps in RR that isn't in Shopkeeper)

Dunno. I'm not that into CtB so maybe I'm wrong but it may be worth pointing it out uwu
Ryou ark
4 posts
Joined August 2014
Ryou ark
Im not panicking, nope...i am panicking dammit il just close my eyes and everything will be guud right?

Personally i think its good they changed ctb ranking, coz really.. some songs are just too easy and give too much pp. Tho changing the stars is kinda umm not necessary.. now playing a 3 star map feels like meh (before it would be bout 6, and would feel like woah 6 stars im getting better), but it's just my opinion ^^
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94

minhtam1638 wrote:

So are these PP scores going to be adjusted appropriately on my profile? It would really suck if they remained as they were before the update.

They will adjust.


To all the others: Calm down. Wait until the recalculations are done before panicking about your rank changing. Other people will lose similar amounts of pp so your rank will normalize again.
-Ryuujii-
259 posts
Joined November 2012
-Ryuujii-
It seems people don't understand what "waiting for the changes to be all done" means, can't you understand the rank you have now is not your final result/Final rank, wait some more days and stop complaining about you dropping 10k places or whatever and just wait and play the game.
THS
1,024 posts
Joined November 2011
THS
some suggestion : 1st rank should be weighted more than other ranks (at least a bit) ,so pp can decrease too
sorry bad english because i'm so sleepy
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94

-Ryuujii- wrote:

It seems people don't understand what "waiting for the changes to be all done" means, can't you understand the rank you have now is not your final result/Final rank, wait some more days and stop complaining about you dropping 10k places or whatever and just wait and play the game.
Luckily waiting a few more hours is enough. :p
Since CtB has less scores than standard it's a lot quicker.
Granger
835 posts
Joined April 2014
Granger
Decided to wait out untill the recalc is done... Hory sheit, i boosted from #2500 to #1000, and here i thought i was a overrated player. O_o
07thAn
8 posts
Joined March 2014
07thAn

Granger wrote:

Decided to wait out untill the recalc is done... Hory sheit, i boosted from #2500 to #1000, and here i thought i was a overrated player. O_o
I suggest you play a game to refresh it. I rank 2k6ish with more pp.
Granger
835 posts
Joined April 2014
Granger
Well, my PP on my profile decreased, so i think my rank/pp was already updated. Ill play a map regardless, cant hurt.
...
Hmm, okaay. #3k6 now. :oops:
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94
Aaaaand calculations are done. Get the feedback going! :)
Girgias
3 posts
Joined October 2013
Girgias
Yights, well in the end stilll lost 2K places :c well never mind gonna try to crowl back into the best 10K people.

So actually is it worth to redo easy maps with a SS then a normal S ? or will it just degrade my placement like before the changes ?

Edit: I just said nothin =° redone a beatmap in "normal" what i didn't even have full combo and won 4K places. :hap: So maybe my comments are completly useless ^-^
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30

Tom94 wrote:

Aaaaand calculations are done. Get the feedback going! :)
ok im just gonna give you some of my thoughts ^^, right now it seems that the pp-output relys way to much on the star rating of a Diff
because most "difficult" rated non-FC's are giving pp values that shouldn't as high as they are now.the best example would probabbly be the TAG4 diffs and especially this one.

The next thing would be how CS is accounted in the difficulty calculations, before the update there were many older maps with higher CS, that combined with mod combinations like HR+HD+DT or HD+DT gave you pretty solid pp-values and now it seems their difficulty rating was significantly lowered compared to most "easier" AR9 Insane diffs which have gotten a huge boost in pp if they only incorparated "one hard part" in them.

Then there is also the Problem with EZ/HT because they are still valued a bit to high for my taste


But what i really appreciated in this formula are the bonuses for long Maps and Doubletime.

to sum it up for me, it seems that the Top-Tier values for hard stuff are pretty solid (with some exeptions like the TAG4 Stuff)
but the mid-ground has to get a bit more balanced to be accurate
DeletedUser_500696
DeletedUser_500696
I definitely appreciate how difficult non-fcs are higher up there in pp, and this system is somewhat more difficult to exploit. I personally really like it more than the last, I don't think pp will ever be perfect in ctb but this is a step in the right direction. DT has some bigger bonuses which is nice, but HR for non FC's or on difficult short maps could use a slight boost as there are some really great HR players like S a o r i that are still kind of high in rank imo. Will add more as I notice more stuff :)
[Superstar]_old
[Superstar]_old
Yes this is better than the last but there are still hard maps which are really underrated.
SPOILER

Last two are really difficult and first 3 are 1 try FC maps
DT seems to have solid pp giving, thats quite nice.
And finally stream maps take into account and give reasonable pp, this is a good job!
RainbowDashiie
2 posts
Joined October 2013
RainbowDashiie
I like it that the pp system is not that exploitable anymore. ;)

But i really hate the changes effecting the pp from long or short maps first in my opinion its to mush pp for long and to less for short maps and even more imported for me is that these changes don't show in the star rating that i used to see if a beatmap will bring me pp or not. :(

sry for my bad English^^
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
i dont understand how tsurupettan is worth so much more than kanjou chemistry


tsurupettan is basically move>one note>move>one note>move and so on, with no complex patterns and barely any dashes needed. while, for someone of my skill, kanjou chemistry is really hard and complex.
Future_miku95
46 posts
Joined February 2013
Future_miku95
i'm just newly fc-ing (bout 2 weeks ago) go berzerk with hd... i mean who wasn't happy to get much pp of this map since this map is hard because of jumping (more harder when adding hd)... i was very lazy back then when play that map but who knows dat was my lucky day...

but when pp system changes and knowing dat go berzerk is underrated.. i felt a deep silent and thought "what the heck this can be happen",, all difficult map became more and more low pp.. when people start comfortable with current pp system and this happen... im sure not only me unsatisfied with new system...
Mio_96
16 posts
Joined August 2012
Mio_96


and I am going Down Down Down Down...

and then feel like...



again...
Taskmaster
761 posts
Joined July 2013
Taskmaster
streamy map is more give much pp
Kazuya
894 posts
Joined May 2013
Kazuya
Thx for update. Not relevant.
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo
whats good is the new maps are not pp maps aka the high tier ones, the maps i can argue about is ---

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/456933?m=2 over 34 people did it, so its not quite hard and its free 477 pp which is way to high
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/371595?m=2 needs a nerf or everyone will HR it, or attempt to, by the time of this month it should have 8-10 HR scores
EDIT: ^ I think you should reduce the value on nomod to 270 and increase HR to 340-330
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/465454?m=2 it's long but it has no real hard parts at all
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/329800?m=2 this is hard but not as hard as the maps i posted above, it's very long and some places for error but no where near 533 pp
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/297463?m=2 yoiyami hanabi is harder than airman 2k14
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/264090?m=2 leaf FC should be way higher like 430 its pretty challenging

these maps should be weighed WAY higher for overall difficulty
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/118068?m=2
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/319661?m=2 ExtRa and Lan Extra 300 ish maybe 290
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/179070?m=2 neu plat should be atleast 330-340 FC
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/122693?m=2 should be 320-330

I feel as if DT also needs a lot of love because DT is VERY hard so maybe boost the value by ateast 8-10%

there is many maps i havent listed or i have listed, but overall way better than the old pp system because the farmers have been destoryed aka, you actually have to do HARD MAPS to get into top 20 I.E instead of TAG4 HR/HT, theres still maps like snow goose which is worth way to much but this is overall beta. Nice job tom94 keep it up

if anyone has any maps related to this post, please post your thoughts lets get this system working.

PS: I love how SS's matter now, 10% for SS's is a very nice tough for accuracy players, nice job
Ddraigon
278 posts
Joined February 2012
Ddraigon
Not many to say, but this pp system is better and better since CtB mode is come to osu!. This is why I love peppy, Tom94, and The Team that keep osu! is better and better since the beggining.

I hope this newest pp system can be motivate many players to improve their skill.
xGx
173 posts
Joined December 2013
xGx
　
Last edited by xGx , edited 2 times in total.
PakaChan
164 posts
Joined August 2013
PakaChan
I think everyone has too much pp right now, maybe cut it down by 10-15%
Rookie_FR
3 posts
Joined May 2014
Rookie_FR
I don't even understand, I lost like almost 1.5k pp, before i had best performance with a map at 5.92 stars (w/HR) but now its gone... Now I don't understand what kind of map gives pp
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo

Rookie_FR wrote:

I don't even understand, I lost like almost 1.5k pp, before i had best performance with a map at 5.92 stars (w/HR) but now its gone... Now I don't understand what kind of map gives pp
hard maps
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