Literally free pp in this map (the Easy!)

I don't know what happens to easier songs, but it obviously overrates some of them to ridiculous amounts. The few jumps that require dashing are 1/1 at 120 BPM. These notes are spaced 500 ms which is more than enough to catch them. The fact that they are across the screen does not make them hard, because they are spaced in the timeline and it's only one part of the map that has this. It was so easy to play that I didn't want to add a third mod to it, because it would give me a ton more pp than it should be worth.



Three mods so OP.

TheVileOne wrote:

Literally free pp in this map (the Easy!)

I don't know what happens to easier songs, but it obviously overrates some of them to ridiculous amounts. The few jumps that require dashing are 1/1 at 120 BPM. These notes are spaced 500 ms which is more than enough to catch them. The fact that they are across the screen does not make them hard, because they are spaced in the timeline and it's only one part of the map that has this. It was so easy to play that I didn't want to add a third mod to it, because it would give me a ton more pp than it should be worth.



Three mods so OP.

There are many "Easy/Normal diff PP Maps"..
here are some interesting ones, maybe that will help finding out what kind of pp-base rating would be right for them.
Scooter - And No Matches {Hop!}
Caramell - Caramelldansen {Normal}
Mario Tennis 64 - Peach's Secret Court {Set Point}
Nobuo Uematsu - You're Not Alone {Normal}
Lin-G - I Want You {Normal}
2pm - Tetris {Level 3}

It's time I make a very lengthy post again.

Stats for CtB:
Spacing difficulty (Dist)
This stat is an alpha of the jump difficulties. Each note has a difficulty assigned to it based on it's placement.
Since CtB is a constantly moving game, it's not just based on the distances between each fruit, but also the leading fruit. So, each fruit has their set difficulty to get to the next fruit, with an addition of the difficulty from the previous fruit's difficulty.
Control action speed (Speed)
Speed is the amount of rigorous hand movement and coordination required to catch the fruits in addition to the BPM.
Accuracy of movement required (Acc)
This is determined by the circle size, as well as the sliders involved. Not a big stat but can be more powerful with wild sliders and sliders going beyond walking speed as well as fruits getting very small.
Approach rate difficulty (App)
Higher AR rates are more difficult in terms of difficulty and are based on the time the fruits are on screen. AR11 is 1.5x more difficult than AR10.

Mods
and how they affect the game and difficulty.

Difficulty Increase

Hidden
This mod provides less visibility. In this case, it makes it harder to be accurate with the fruits, and requires a little more timing ability. Difficult jumps become increasingly harder. This isn't too much of a difficulty increase but it's enough to be very notable in jumpy maps. Low approach rates also make this mod a tiny bit more difficult because of how much more memorization is required. It becomes only slightly less difficult with higher and approach rates.
Slight boost to:
+Acc
Good boost to:
+Dist (Depends on AR a little too)

DoubleTime
This mod provides increased beatmap speed. This also means increased approach rate, increased need of control, and increased need for jump movement. This is the more difficult modifier of the two 1.06x score increases. This can also increase little slow streams into something more difficult.
Slight boost to:
+Acc
Good boost to:
+Dist
+App
Big boost to:
+Speed

HardRock
Also popular among players for the instant ticket to AR9.8 and AR10. It makes the fruits smaller and increases the approach rate where it can be increased. It makes it more difficult to get a good accuracy as well. It also scrambles the fruits a little, so the distance difficulty should be calculated as if the map were scrambled up with HardRock.
Good boost to:
+Dist
+App (Depends on the AR, it maxes at AR10)
Big boost to:
+Acc

Flashlight
Still the most powerful of the 1.12x score mods, is Flashlight. It provides limited visibility, including difficulty in seeing large jumps and getting good accuracy. It makes approach shorter because of the limited visibility above, as well.
Good boost to:
+Acc
Big boost to:
+App
+Dist

Difficulty Decrease

NoFail
his mod does nothing except prevent you from failing. No stat change whatsoever.

Easy
This modifier tones down the stats of the map, but not the notes. this includes reduced difficulty on needing to aim at jumps, the accuracy involved, and the approach rate. When joined with hidden, this increases the difficulty of aiming a little when AR is very low.
Slight decrease to:
-Dist (Except when AR gets low when used with hidden)
Good decrease to:
-Acc
Big decrease to:
-App

HalfTime
also a powerful difficulty reduction mod in it's own speculation. It reducdes speed as well as the approach rate and hit aim requirement a little, being the exact opposite of DoubleTime.
Slight decrease to:
-Acc
Good decrease to:
-Dist
-App
Big decrease to:
-Speed

I hope this helps you. In a lot of cases, you can't just use a % change for maps when using mods. It just doesn't work, with how diverse maps are.

I also think that my definition on jump distance here might rectify the "Long jumps being uber powerful" thing. In some cases they are though (Like Wild eyes and Go Berzerk, they have those jumps all over)

I'm losing rank because of improving songs? K den

i just noticed.. some mod combinations are haaarshly underrated, i mean the amount of pp from this "easy" HR+HD record is really way to high in comparison to the other Mod combinations

I don't really care about the ranking system to begin with. In my opinion, growth is never AS accurate or weighed properly by scripts and whatever is used in creating a natural ranking system. But, that's just me. As for the community, I wouldn't mind a little revamping and work did on the ranking system. I think it could be a bit more redefined and more user-friendly.

Is there any way to hide/remove scores? Honestly, i got a new top rank that is even more broken than the old one from Still Alive, who'd have guessed that this is even possible? I dont want those PPs, i dont deseve them.


Its a 6.13 star map that plays like some 4 star map, i was able to FC it with ease. Could HR it too but id rather not...

Anyways, i theres some correlation with Still alive, high circle size and 1/4 closs screen jumps.

Most people are aware of maps like the giving extreme amounts of pp, it hasn't been fixed yet, and I doubt it will be any time soon.

rip

After easy map giving tons of pp there are hard map giving nothing. I love ppv2.

VOTE for go berzerk best map 2014!..wait

So when nurf patch pp amount of HT?

When Will FL get nurfed?

-PM- wrote:

So when nurf patch pp amount of HT?

Yukiteru Amano wrote:

When Will FL get nurfed?

Never

Zak wrote:

-PM- wrote:

So when nurf patch pp amount of HT?

Yukiteru Amano wrote:

When Will FL get nurfed?

Never

I see nothing wrong with FL. It's a very difficult mod and totally worth the performance if you pull it off (and the points too)

As for HT, there's going to be a speed factor implemented for CtB pp so you might see that getting calculated much like it does with doubletime.

Full mode SS gives less PP than HD HR FL. (Not weighet pp)
Map: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/94942?m=2
Screenshot: http://puu.sh/bZjRa/f54033b86e.jpg
#1 got 240
I got 255

follon wrote:

Full mode SS gives less PP than HD HR FL. (Not weighet pp)
Map: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/94942?m=2
Screenshot: http://puu.sh/bZjRa/f54033b86e.jpg
#1 got 240
I got 255

wow...that is really dumb xD, i just checked to with Osu!Trainer, you're right..

Yukiteru Amano wrote:

When Will FL get nurfed?

PLS yuki, FL on ar8+ needs to be boosted imo, there are less FL players now than like 4 years ago makes me sad. Also I think EZ+FL should be worth 1.00x at the least hue

imo
1. you people do realize yuki's reply about fl is just a sarcasm to the previous post right?
2. there are reasons why there are less fl player nowadays and that is not just because it gives less of this bullshit points
3. this bullshit points already have tons of proof that it is broken and even (much) worse than the previous one, at least for now
4. i don't think it would be that simple to fix all of those crap anytime soon, especially when tom seems pretty much busy with other stuffs as well
5. if you want this to get resolved quickly, try playing any maps you like and enjoy this game mode the way it is or go away/play other games... pretty much the best solution

- Rii - wrote:

imo
1. you people do realize yuki's reply about fl is just a sarcasm to the previous post right?
2. there are reasons why there are less fl player nowadays and that is not just because it gives less of this bullshit points
3. this bullshit points already have tons of proof that it is broken and even (much) worse than the previous one, at least for now
4. i don't think it would be that simple to fix all of those crap anytime soon, especially when tom seems pretty much busy with other stuffs as well
5. if you want this to get resolved quickly, try playing any maps you like and enjoy this game mode the way it is or go away/play other games... pretty much the best solution

Nuh-uh, playing other games won't have any effect to this.

alxnr wrote:

Nuh-uh, playing other games won't have any effect to this.

so you think by saying that will give any effect to this?

- Rii - wrote:

so you think by saying that will give any effect to this?

Of course... not.

Going to be honest and say there's probably not much more to discuss here until Tom comes back to work on CtB's pp system and rework it as we've covered almost everything that can be right now. So it's probably best to let it sit here instead of arguing until then.

Or just remove pp, that works too.

Agree.

Sorry, couldn't resist that. I hope Tom gets back into this soon.

hi

I don't really know about pp ranking system in CtB. But, different mode, different difficulty. Example, AR9HDDT is more difficult than AR9HDHR, and for some map with many jumps (and because that the pp's map is overhigh) I think it's a part of CtB difficulty. CtB difficulty not only HyperJumps, but Mod, AR, CS, rapid stream, weird pattern, etc are must be considered to pp's map, not just jumps. That's my opinion.

And for me, with pp ranking (although it's broken), It's motivated me to improve my skill. So, I disagree with no-pp system ranking.

But keep play and enjoy the game, the music, and the map.

uhhhhhh the change is slowly comming *.* (thats a screen of the changelog of the cutting edge version)

I play at least Hard difficulty and Hidden never turn off. Over the past few days received 2 PP. Where are my PP, developers?

P.S. Oh, and I lost about 200 places these days.

You are not entitled to pp because you play Hard diff's with Hidden. If it bothers you that much player harder maps.

Zak wrote:

You are not entitled to pp because you play Hard diff's with Hidden. If it bothers you that much player harder maps.

Hard - is the minimum. Often Insane or something like that. I get into the top 50 on the highest difficulty. Let the map is not the most difficult in the game, but its better than I have been only 20-40 people. Do not people deserve some PP? It is illogical and unfair. In the good old days was only Ranked Score, fair and clear.

[ZooM] wrote:

Zak wrote:

You are not entitled to pp because you play Hard diff's with Hidden. If it bothers you that much player harder maps.

Hard - is the minimum. Often Insane or something like that. I get into the top 50 on the highest difficulty. Let the map is not the most difficult in the game, but its better than I have been only 20-40 people. Do not people deserve some PP? It is illogical and unfair. In the good old days was only Ranked Score, fair and clear.

dude, values have changed in the past years, you were there in the begging..thats true but you just visited the game every few months, people were unhappy that score ranking was about time effort and strategysing about score farming, then ppv1 came and people found maps that fell out of the system because of the number of scores on a map, or people always having the exact same high rank because of 0-Spinner SS's and many more weird situations...
and people were and maybe are to some extend unhappy with how ppv2 works, but you shouldn't critize it, it only does the thing that the major part of the community wanted..giving a ranking were your skill is the most important value. in ppv2 you have to play a combination of high distance,high AR,High CS-Combination to get the most out of a map...and peppy made it even easier, now you can just look up how many pp someone got for a map..if the record you're looking for is not in the top100 Best perfomance of a player then it's below his lowest value...so if you really care about having a high rank then put the effort into getting those points, and if you don't want to..thats also fine, everyone just wants to enjoy this game in his/her own ways, but don't call bullshit on people who are actually putting an effort into pleasing their community members.

Kingkevin30 wrote:

dude, values have changed in the past years, you were there in the begging..thats true but you just visited the game every few months, people were unhappy that score ranking was about time effort and strategysing about score farming, then ppv1 came and people found maps that fell out of the system because of the number of scores on a map, or people always having the exact high rank because of 0-Spinner SS's and many more weird situations...
and people were and maybe are to some extend unhappy with how ppv2 works, but you shouldn't critize it, it only does the thing that the major part of the community wanted..giving a ranking were your skill is the most important value. in ppv2 you have to play a combination of high distance,high AR,High CS-Combination to get the most out of a map...and peppy made it even easier, now you can just look up how many pp someone got for a map..if the record you're looking for is not in the top100 Best perfomance of a player then it's below his lowest value...so if you really care about having a high rank then put the effort into getting those points, and if don't want to thats also fine, everyone just wants to enjoy this game in his/her own ways, but don't call bullshit on people who are actually putting an effort into pleasing their community members.

I understand, but this is the case - a person gets 1st place on the map and get, for example, 100 PP. And all the rest get nothing. But their score may be less likely to 5000-10000. Okay, insane with Hidden is simply because even if only for 5-10 PP give. I did not ask to get me in the top 3. Just want some return for the hours spent in the game.

This imbalance. I think that is wrong.

You want something in return? What do you gain from some number?
You gain a good map rank in return, isnt that good enough? And thats just a number. Again.

Honestly i never saw what people see in all those numbers, is it admiration from less good players they're after? But you can get that by FCing the newest ultrahard map much better than from some number.

You don't get pp by getting a high rank, most of the time a map I get rank 1 on doesn't give anything, and you want to know why? Because the map isn't hard enough to give anything, ppv1 based your pp on rank/accuracy, ppv2 takes map difficulty and counts miss count+combo.

So again, if you're not getting anything, you need to FC harder maps, you can't get pp forever by sticking to the same difficulty range, you do eventually have to move on to harder and harder maps.

aha yes yes ! go berzerk go berzerk!

[ZooM] wrote:

I understand, but this is the case - a person gets 1st place on the map and get, for example, 100 PP.
And all the rest get nothing. But their score may be less likely to 5000-10000.

thats a pretty ridiciolus assumption my friend...did you ever check how many pp everyone else is getting on a Scoreboard,
i bet you did not. because this is how most Scoreboards look like:




ohh wow how suprising, it seems that this beatmap has been difficult for most players in his Top 50 because their combo is decreasing and so is there pp that there getting out of it.

well lets look at the different outputs in comparesion now...
hmm Kenji did got 274pp out of a HR+HD on this map...does that seem fair? as far as im concerned, yes it very well deserves this high amount, playing this with both mods activated makes it signifficantly more difficult (atleast 1/3's harder) then the other used mod combinations.

up to the next one..

PM got 209pp for playing with Hidden, around 1pp more then all the other people who Hidden FC'ed it...is that fair? of course, beeing accurate is hard, it's not changing the overall difficulty too much, but still should be awarded, so this is also fine as im converned

next one...

so now the Nomod FC's starts with the same thing about accuracy i just explained on PM's case...so how about getting -25pp in comparison to the HD FC's
does that seem fair? now its getting a bit more complicated, Hidden is about perception so everyone has their own ideal of "how much harder is playing Hidden compared to nomod" but in a general sense everyone agrees that it adds to a difficulty of a map, so something like 10-30pp more for a Hidden Record is also fine...it takes effort to do such stuff.

and as we are going down the scoreboard ladder people are getting less and less pp even though they got such a close combo to a FC...is that fair?

now we have to take in mind that the meaning of PP is "PERFOMANCE Points" so that means that your skill has to be around the same "perfomance", you must be able to do something as difficult as the last "good perfomance".

so that was the whole scoreboard....if you really think that these values are incorrent, then pls tell Tom94 and give some advice on how it should be changed..

TL;DR PLEASE KEVIN

Kevin marry me

What mod is "NV"?